F1 2025: At Last, Ferrari's Year

[John Arne]

10am here, ready for this sprint. Here's hoping for a crash, fight or dog on track.

[Gray Fox]

I suspect the Ferrari will eat its tyres here, but this is promising for the season.

[Gray Fox]

Fresh air is king then. Max and Piastri absolutely cooked their tyres and went fully off the cliff.

[SincereTheRebel]

Its good to see the newbs early on, spinning around in dirt

[Jimmy Floyd]

Poor old Doohan is on a one-way trip to Mount Panorama at the moment.

Brundle making a good point here that Verstappen could Prost his way to the championship even in a shit car.

[Waffdon]

Norris looks like he’s towing a boat around here

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Lawson :lol:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Hadjar to be in the Red Bull and then fired before season's end. Keep going Helmut.

[SincereTheRebel]

Lawson :lol:

Getting mugged off on out laps.

[Waffdon]

Norris looks like he’s towing a boat around here

He found the NOS button, new lap record.

Same again in Q3, chief. No excuses

[Jimmy Floyd]

He was making a weird number of mistakes throughout that session.

Leclerc in Sir Lewis's bodybag already, French chump.

[Waffdon]

Should be a fairly routine win for Piastri tomorrow from the front

[SincereTheRebel]

We need an indiction on the time screen, when drivers have completed their flying laps but they they havent taken the chequered flag. We know when drivers go into the box as it tells you. Its tension trying to figure our for 20 seconds, who is still on a flying lap and who has just completed one.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Should be a good race I think, certainly any of the front four could win it, maybe front six if Ferrari have any race pace, quite rare in this era.

[Jimmy Floyd]

We need an indiction on the time screen, when drivers have completed their flying laps but they they havent taken the chequered flag. We know when drivers go into the box as it tells you. Its tension trying to figure our for 20 seconds, who is still on a flying lap and who has just completed one.

I think there's quite a lot they could do with modern tech to allow us to follow people's laps better on the broadcast. Have similar delta things up on screen maybe to what the drivers have in-car.

[Waffdon]

Should be a good race I think, certainly any of the front four could win it, maybe front six if Ferrari have any race pace, quite rare in this era.

Clean air is king, as shown by Hamilton earlier today. Unless Verstappen makes places at the start I can only seen him going backwards in the race with that horrific degradation.

[Shindig]

Brundle making a good point here that Verstappen could Prost his way to the championship even in a shit car.

I was thinking that as well. He doesn't really have terrible days.

[Gray Fox]

Leclerc in Sir Lewis's bodybag already, French chump.

I'm wondering how he's going to cope with this. With Sainz there was that sense that maybe he had the edge on track, but Sainz wasn't quite viewed as the same level of star as him. Now the gaffer has essentially brought in his favourite ever student, who also happens to be the last remaining mega star of F1. Oh and just so happens to be the best driver the sport has ever seen.

I've got a lot of time for Charlie boy and he along with Max are probably quite clear in being the guy you want for that one lap. However his ability to chuck a mistake is going to cost him a lot if we are seeing a return of full motivation SLH.

[Pepe]

It's been half a weekend. Let's not get carried away just yet.

[Giggles]

Exactly. Hamilton's motivation for a weekend could disappear very quickly if last year is anything to go by.

[Gray Fox]

Quite.

I hope we continue down the path of Car X being better at Circuit Y, but not the same as it was last week, that we got at the end of last year. Could also be interesting if Max does Prost his way to many a 2nd/3rd place while the other teams yo-yo about.

Nice to have some ambiguity in a sport now that the football season is over.

[-james-]

What's the deal with Verstappen's team mate? Obviously there is a skill gap, but how can you be consistently last in a car that's also near the front? Aren't Red Bull meant to be the "talent ID" guys?

[SincereTheRebel]

Car is designed for Max to drive only. Albon said that when he was his team mate, Max likes the car to feel, the same way your mouse does when your turn it to max sensitivity. It makes the car really difficult to drive for everyone else. Allegedly.

[Pepe]

Perez did well with the car, until he didn't. As for Lawson, this is his second weekend on the car. Last weekend was a rainy one and all the rookies struggled. As much as I would enjoy to see him flop as some sort of revindication for Perez, we have to wait at least a few more races before entirely giving up on him.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's a true one-car team. Kind of ironic as one of the best parallels from history was 1994 when Benetton made a car purely for Schumacher and the fall guy trailing around like a leper 15 places behind him was... Jos Verstappen.

And Red Bull are the talent ID guys but they also have Helmut Marko who likes to sack said talent after about 5 races. Gasly and Albon from the current grid have both been through this, Sainz got out before it happened to him, and countless careers are in the mud because of it.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Yuki has been driving round at half mast thus far this season.

[Disco]

Perez did ok when the car was most of a second quicker than anything else, they seem allergic to putting anyone half decent in that seat and when they did they gave them half an hour to get close to Verstappen then kicked them out the door.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yuki's probably better off where he is, believe it or not.

[Pepe]

A bit like when Casey Stoner was the only one that could win on the Ducati.

[Pepe]

Yuki's probably better off where he is, believe it or not.

At this point if I was a young driver I would be trying to avoid the Red Bull seat, at least until the new regs kick in.

[Pepe]

I also don't want to defend Perez too much because it will sound that I am just biased for my countrymate and I couldn't really care less, but he was a 'half-decent' driver, at least until the last year and a half.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Yuki's probably better off where he is, believe it or not.

I agree but he really wanted that RB seat so he must be loving shitting all over Lawson.

[phonics]

Yuki is not a great driver. He is perfectly average at best. He is Sergio Perez with ADHD. You put anyone in that second car and they will be abysmal because the entire thing is built from the ground up for Max to T-1000 his way to championships or if it's a shit car, drag it kicking and screaming onto the podium. You cannot ask people who are not Max Verstappen to drive this thing competently. It cannot be done.

We have had 6 drivers and a decades worth of evidence that has proved this time after time.

[Waffdon]

McLaren’s dominating when it really matters. Not a real surprise

[Jimmy Floyd]

Leclerc's missing front wing endplate taking all the load out of the front left, absolute cheat code around here. He could challenge Norris here.

[Serj]

Love that Leclerc's improvised aero modification leads to him being the fastest car on track (or so it seems).

Edit: Was a bit late with that.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Something needs to happen.

[Waffdon]

McLaren telling Norris for maximum pace a bit ago just for him to sit in dirty air was a ridiculous call. Norris needs to get rid of that engineer badly. His tyres look cooked now

[Waffdon]

Easy peasy. McLaren on their Red Bull/Mercedes arc and I’m here for it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Imagine my shock that the C2 held together flawlessly for 40 odd laps. Haven't actually seen 'the cliff' since about 2010.

My Piastri 10/1 ticket remains in my pocket.

[niko_cee]

When was the last time a tyre genuinely went off? When Hamilton binned it here on the way into the pits to scupper that title in his debut season, in one of the worst bits of team management ever?

That was really boring.

[Gray Fox]

Most extreme example I remember was Kimi in a Lotus.

[Waffdon]

You know when Russell is sitting in 3rd place that it’s been a boring race. The king of saving tyres and sneaking onto a podium. Nearly got up to 2nd in the end with Norris’ brake issues.

[niko_cee]

Most extreme example I remember was Kimi in a Lotus.

There was that one epic race in Canada where everyone had to make about 6 stops.

Was that a turning point for durability?

[Jimmy Floyd]

One of the reasons 2012 was a good season was that they had clown tyres that actually fell off. If you're going to have massive aero wake (which you are) then you can't have super-durable tyres as well or there's no jeopardy for the driver in front, especially around this smogfest when there's a triple-apex nightmare leading out into the long DRS zone.

[Waffdon]

Russell doing a 1 stop at Spa and winning the race (well until it was overturned) should have been the nail in the head for these tyres. The more pit stops needed the better. 1 stop is fine if there’s an element of risk but the V Carbs were on for an easy P7 and P9 before going for a second stop today which ends up royally fucking them. Same with Hamilton - was never catching anyone after pitting

[Jimmy Floyd]

If the tyres aren't going to get less durable they need to make the races 10 laps longer.

[Shindig]

Yeah, take the distances back to 1960s levels.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

LeClerc and Gasly underweight with Hamilton having excessive plank wear. All three could be gone.

[thommo]

Leclerc and Hamilton both disqualified. Forza Ferrari chaps.

Albon up to P7 :cool:

[Pepe]

That move to Ferrari will only keep looking better and better as the season progresses, won't it? Car is not bad, but the team is a joke and has been for a while.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Gasly gone now too.

[Gray Fox]

What a difference 24 hours makes for Ferrari huh.

Max quietly putting solid points on the board early on too.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Haas 5th and 8th is some result after last week. Bearman drove a very good race actually. Antonelli getting driver of the day was a curious psephological phenomenon to say the least.

[Giggles]

Ferrari are some comedy act.

[niko_cee]

Getting both cars disqualified for different reasons is some going.

[Waffdon]

What a difference 24 hours makes for Ferrari huh.

Max quietly putting solid points on the board early on too.

Deserved for the embarrassing over exaggerated response from people to a sprint race

[Jimmy Floyd]

'We weren't trying to gain an advantage' is [pasta] chef's kiss.

[Disco]

As a life long Ferrari fan (tifosi as we say) I think it's disgraceful that Sir Lewis Hamiltons 9th world title bid is being sabotaged in this way. Obvious British favouritism.

[Gray Fox]

We should do a Ferrari bingo card.

I look forward to seeing which way they manage to fuck it up in Japan.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

We should do a Ferrari bingo card.

I look forward to seeing which way they manage to fuck it up in Japan.

I'm going for a double stack fucking one of the drivers.

[7om]

Leclerc and Hamilton both disqualified. Forza Ferrari chaps.

Albon up to P7 :cool:

No doubt in my mind that Albon is one of the best drivers on the grid at this point. He consistently gets every last drop of performance out of that car. All the more sweeter that he was (wrongly) fired by Red Bull by those wankers Horner and Marko.

[John Arne]

Ferrari giving Lewis a stroke already.

1903831624376078587

[Pepe]

Biden-like.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Word is that Red Bull are already thinking about bringing in Yuki to replace Lawson, lol.

[Disco]

At what point do they think of making their car work for more than one person.

[John Arne]

Yuki, the whiny little bitch, will last 2 races before being smacked in the face by Jos or the Horndog.

[Ben]

I'm not so sure Red Bull will want to put Tsunoda in that seat. He's a total hot head who will be no better than those that went before him. I reckon Lawson's less-combative nature was what give him the nod initially.

Unsurprisingly, Alpine are already making moves to get Colapinto into Doohan's car before Red Bull come knocking. Not signing Sainz will look extra-retarded when they have to go back to Perez.

[Ben]

Although Ralf Schumacher has said Tsunoda and Lawson are definitely swapping cars in Suzuka, and he's supposedly got sources in the Racing Bulls team.

[Pepe]

Hard to see Tsunoda being the solution to anything.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Red Bull want that HUGE fan pop in Japan.

Yuki coming out in the car like Cody Rhodes at Mania 38.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Colapinto is just the same as the rest of them. Desperately inexperienced. None of these guys have driven F1 cars enough to know what they're doing. Yuki might have the best chance on qualifying pace, but he has other weaknesses.

[Luke Emia]

I don't think Tsunoda is brilliant. But, with the experience he was surely worth promoting this year and seeing how it pans out. I don't think he does any worse and even if he is no better he's had his chance and you move on. Sticking someone in the seat who has 9 Grand Prix under their belt was always going to be an issue even Max did a season and a bit at a junior team before moving to Red Bull and let's face it he will have genuine claims to be seen as one of the best drivers ever none of these guys will be in that same conversation even if they are very good drivers in their own rights so all you are doing is burying them.

[Pepe]

Unless he starts crashing, I would give Lawson the season.

[SincereTheRebel]

Yuki would be a fool to take that seat.

[Ben]

Marko and Horner are the issues. Doesn't matter who gets in that second seat, they're fucked.

The Vettel-Webber relationship was farcical at times. You couldn't imagine Ross Brawn letting it play out like it did, that's for sure. Then they ran Ricciardo out of town when Verstappen came in, and that's despite Ricciardo actually beating him in 2017. The long line of rookies after that was just a disasterclass of how to manage a team. Early days Perez (until he chucked the towel in at Suzuka 2023, seemingly along with his driving ability) was the best they'll see as a two-car outfit until there's change at the top.

[phonics]

Ricciardo left town knowing Max was better than him and proved to be absolute dog shit forever more.

[Pepe]

Agreed. Ricciardo knew that a life as a number 2 driver awaited him in Red Bull and decided to instead trust the French to give him a competitive car, for some reason.

[Ben]

A number two can still be successful in the right environment. He saw that Red Bull were focusing 100% on Verstappen even after beating him and that any second driver would be on a hiding to nothing because of the way Marko and Horner were going about running the place.

I'm not disputing Ricciardo didn't do himself any favours afterwards but it was weird team management at the time and massively foreshadowed the shit show the team constantly found themselves in after that.

[Jimmy Floyd]

What will they do if Max breaks his legs at Suzuka or is strangled by a killer tulip / hit on the head by a windmill sail when he next goes home? Anything can happen in motor racing.

[Pepe]

Could they just swap the Toro Rosso (whatever it is called today) cars?

[Ben]

How attached is he to the Red Bull team? The rumours of him going to Mercedes aren't going away, and we saw with Hamilton how anything is possible. If he fucked off it'd be back to the days of Coulthard and Klein in a real hurry.

[Disco]

Same as any of them, if he thinks he stands a better chance of winning somewhere else he's gone.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He'll go at the end of 2026, unless the Red Bull is the fastest car, to whoever does have the fastest car. Imagine there's a reasonable chance that Red Bull might sell up at that point as well.

[Disco]

Will fizzy drink suddenly not need selling any more?

[phonics]

All that stuff was pushed for by the bloke who’s now dead. I think that kind of ‘expenses we don’t need’ will slowly die off as hedge fund types take over that company.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Will fizzy drink suddenly not need selling any more?

Someone might decide they can sell it via other means than spending a billion quid on sending various hapless Mexicans and New Zealanders to their eternal ridiculd.

[Disco]

Seems a bit rash, they've got a factory and hats and stuff. People act as if Verstappen is the last good driver, just get another one.

[Giggles]

You'd swear reading here that they're banned from signing anyone up.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Sources saying that Yuki is IN with Lawson OUT.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Can't wait for Lawson, a super formula veteran of course, to rinse him at Suzuka.

[Gray Fox]

Comes to something that we're only giving a youth two races, in a known to be shit car now.

[Disco]

Plus the 11 he had before that.

[Pepe]

Sounds ridiculous to me but maybe THE DATA shows truly tragic levels of performance.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If you're being hard on him then you can't really be parking a car P20, but two weekends is a pretty quick trigger. You could tell though in his interview after qualifying that he had been told he had to deliver immediately.

How many did Luca Badoer get in the Ferrari that time?

[Shindig]

Two before Fisichella went in.

[Gray Fox]

Plus the 11 he had before that.

He did more than fine in that car though.

[Ben]

Liz Truss had a longer stint than Lawson. :facepalm:

[Ben]

Tsunoda-Lawson swap official.

Who comes in when Tsunoda struggles because the car is obviously a huge issue? Jos Verstappen?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Tsunoda to shit all over Max :drool:

[Jimmy Floyd]

I fear the weebs of the F1 world are about to be sorely disappointed.

[Ben]

Tsunoda will still be at least 4-5 tenths off Verstappen at Suzuka. Even more if the transition between the teams isn't at all smooth.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If he gets to Q3 in that car he'll have done extraordinarily well.

[Luke Emia]

He only needs to not be 20th at this point though in all fairness in qualifying. At the end even on newer tyres he was a second a lap behind Max on Sunday. He was I'm sure I saw 3 seconds a lap off Max in Melbourne. The car isn't great but it isn't as bad as the Sauber which is about where Lawson has had it. Get him out, a full season in the junior team and you might still be able to make something of him as a driver. Leave him in and you just end up with the next Perez.

[Waffdon]

Why are we pretending the Red Bull car is a tractor. It’s not any worse than the Ferrari.

[Ben]

It's been developed around Verstappen's driving style for 8 years, a style which is very specific. Trying to ask a rookie or mid driver to adapt to that without being given any grace is always going to backfire.

I don't know if you watch MotoGP but Honda did exactly the same thing. They got a once-in-a-generation talent (Marc Marquez) in 2013 and coupled with a good bike he won immediately. Then it started getting developed around him 100% and by 2016 when the sport switched to Michelin tyres, they'd probably already jumped the shark. However, Marquez was that good that he pretty much hid the flaws and kept winning (particularly in 2019 which was just total genius on his part). Then he almost killed himself in 2020 and never really rode for the team again. And guess what, Honda went straight to the bottom of the standings because it became apparent the bike was impossible to ride for anyone else.

I guess my point is, the Verstappen factor cannot be understated. I'd say he's got 2-3 tenths on the whole field (all else being equal). He's massively quick in qualifying but his consistency is mesmerising. If the driver wasn't a factor, he'd be 7th every race at the moment.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Exactly as above. If Verstappen is dragging a car to 4th it's because it's an appallingly slow car. He's even been saying himself that it is.

[Pepe]

He only needs to not be 20th at this point though.

Surely for red bull 20th or 11th are the same, no? They need points or they risk finishing fourth in the constructors championship, which would be traffic for them.

[SincereTheRebel]

I wonder what the biggest difference in finishing positions between team mates has ever been.

[niko_cee]

Lawson more likely to shit all over Tsunoda.

[Luke Emia]

Surely for red bull 20th or 11th are the same, no? They need points or they risk finishing fourth in the constructors championship, which would be traffic for them.

Yes, I meant from the viewpoint of he just needs to do that to be an improvement on Lawson at the minute. Long-term if he's finishing 14th all season he won't be in the car any longer either. The car isn't great but the second driver in the team should still be able to finish in and around the top 10 and pick up points. It's not a fucking Minardi.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I wonder what the biggest difference in finishing positions between team mates has ever been.

Ayrton Senna 4th / Johnny Dumfries 13th
Michael Schumacher 1st / Jos Verstappen 10th although both missed quite a few races

Can't think of any bigger than that.

[Pepe]

No one called Johnny Dumfries should be good at anything.

[Ben]

The fact cars are so reliable and so close together now in terms of speed is a huge detriment to the "inferior" teammate. Previously they'd make up for their lack of guile just by simply breezing past the slower cars, or be propelled up the leaderboard by cars blowing up ahead of them.

Now everyone finishes a race and we've even seen the likes of Hamilton, Leclerc and Norris get stuck behind "much slower" cars when they qualify out of position because they really aren't that much slower anymore. I'd argue only Verstappen has really mastered the art of how to overtake quickly and consistently in these cruise liners, and even he regularly has to bend the rules to do it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If you hit up an early 90s race on Youtube (which I do more often than is necessarily healthy) it's almost like a different sport, the cars are so twitchy and a nightmare to drive, huge gaps open up in the opening laps (but can also be closed again), and more than anything there are shit tons of random retirements, bizarre stop-go penalties and also a weight of shit backmarkers getting in the way that you just don't have now.

Today's races are so optimised in comparison that someone who normally finishes 16th finishing 9th is cause for hugs all round and a massive team celebration. Similarly, anyone (hi Logan Sargent) who is particularly off the pace of the field turns into a massive burden on the sport rather than just part of the game as it used to be.

[Pepe]

The cars looked much better too.

[Jimmy Floyd]

My favourite genre of motorsport photo is shots taken down the start finish straight seconds after the race start in that era. Like so, I think this is 1991 at Suzuka:

https://storage.googleapis.com/the-race-com.appspot.com/1/2020/11/XPB_1034630_HiRes-2048x1365.jpg

[Disco]

Tsunoda-Lawson swap official.

Who comes in when Tsunoda struggles because the car is obviously a huge issue? Jos Verstappen?

We must continue to find the most average of drivers for what we have, for no good reason, made the hardest seat in F1.

[Disco]

If you hit up an early 90s race on Youtube (which I do more often than is necessarily healthy) it's almost like a different sport, the cars are so twitchy and a nightmare to drive, huge gaps open up in the opening laps (but can also be closed again), and more than anything there are shit tons of random retirements, bizarre stop-go penalties and also a weight of shit backmarkers getting in the way that you just don't have now.

Today's races are so optimised in comparison that someone who normally finishes 16th finishing 9th is cause for hugs all round and a massive team celebration. Similarly, anyone (hi Logan Sargent) who is particularly off the pace of the field turns into a massive burden on the sport rather than just part of the game as it used to be.

Sport was better when it was worse etc.

[Disco]

As for watching old races the guy I use is up to 2010 now but this might be the best thing he's posted so far, some incredible foreshadowing here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_2bkps7uBY

https://rumble.com/c/BigZeddie
https://www.youtube.com/@bigzeddie76/featured

[Jimmy Floyd]

As for hiring average team mates, there's a reason that Schumacher and Senna in particular always had crap team mates, which was because they vetoed the hiring of good ones, and it's hard to believe Max wouldn't do the same.

[Ben]

I also just remembered Red Bull are switching to Ford engines next year. I hope they don’t bring their disastrous wet belt with them.

[phonics]

Btw not sure if I shared it in here but having visited a friend who worked for Williams and knows the paddock, the Jos mention reminded me.

The whole Horner sexual harassment thing last year was an intentional leak because Jos was hanging out the back of the same bird and she told Verstappen Snr that she was no longer interested.

[phonics]

My favourite genre of motorsport photo is shots taken down the start finish straight seconds after the race start in that era. Like so, I think this is 1991 at Suzuka:

There's a beauty to this picture that 8 sponsors are clearly visible

1 no longer exists
1 isn't legally allowed to advertise anymore
1 fashion company that sponsors lewis hamilton not the sport
2 are the sole remaining companies of a dead print industry
2 are petroleum companies

[Jimmy Floyd]

The front 6 cars (if we take the Jordan on the right to be narrowly leading what I guess must be one of those Dallara / Scuderia Italia shitboxes) all sporting a different main colour, and not a centimetre of naked carbon fibre in sight. Take me back there.

I believe it's Hitachi on the rear wing of said Jordan who I can report are still going strong and one of their competitors Komatsu are on the side of the current day Williams. Some shred of continuity to cling onto.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm wrong, Hitachi was on the Lotus, not the Jordan, and not until the following year. I'm a day late and a dollar short, as Brundle (driving some nightmare Brabham at the back of shot) would say.

[phonics]

I've long advocated for Livery paint not counting towards the weight limit. Similar to how they changed it so drivers weren't sweating themselves to death to make the car lighter.

[phonics]

I'm wrong, Hitachi was on the Lotus, not the Jordan, and not until the following year. I'm a day late and a dollar short, as Brundle (driving some nightmare Brabham at the back of shot) would say.

There’s a joke for the most famous modern Hitachi device being a vibrating dildo and you attaching their 90s branding to Jordan’s Lotus that would absolutely kill on the after dinner circuit of a mid level insurance company.

[Shindig]

He's saving it for his retirement speech at Komatsu.

[Ben]

I've long advocated for Livery paint not counting towards the weight limit. Similar to how they changed it so drivers weren't sweating themselves to death to make the car lighter.

The paint should be irrelevant. The rules need completely re-writing. Haggling over a bit of paint to save a few grams when you've got 800kg to play with is ridiculous.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I thought the issue with paint was the aero effect rather than the weight? Could be wrong, or could be both.

[Disco]

Given nobody has ever claimed their car was quick because they found lighter paint we can immediately disregard any talk about heavy paint as code for 'our car is crap'. Won't be a problem soon as they'll be swimming in weight capacity once the hybrids go.

[Gray Fox]

A couple of cars could have used an extra kilo or two of paint very recently.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1906647910973861949

Me likey.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Special liveries are so tinpot. Going to paint a bulldog on the side for Silverstone or a cheeseburger for Miami? Thought not.

[niko_cee]

Are the F1 cars going to be caught by the new US tariffs when they have to go and race there?

[Disco]

They already ruined helmets, now liveries are the bleeding edge of pointless crap to keep the marketing department busy. Deduct a point for every alteration throughout the season.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I do feel a bit for the makers of DTS when they sit down with the six new rookies to try and churn out some sort of episode for series 100 next year, and the most charismatic thing they can find is that Ollie Bearman has a very camp-looking bear on his helmet.

[SincereTheRebel]

Doohan lost it during the start of turn one. Big impact.

https://x.com/extremecars__/status/1908040462948249961?t=ydaWSX0o90Se_EhNxUgKtg&s=19

[Ben]

Those "Colapinto in the seat by Europe" rumours won't be simmering down after that one.

[Ben]

Villeneuve at Suzuka for us this weekend. :cool:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Colapinto of course not crashy at all. Why isn't, say, Kevin Magnussen in the seat?

[Ben]

I know FP2 was largely a waste of time and Racing Bulls had fortunate track position in between red flags, but them both only being 0.4s off McLaren (with Lawson in 5th) isn't really a good look for Red Bull.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I saw a wag suggest that rather than worry about who is in the second Red Bull seat, they should just put Max in the RB. Get it done.

[Shindig]

World Champions switching seats mid-season like it's the 50's. :cool:

[Gray Fox]

I see we have grass randomly catching fire on an Asian circuit again.

[Luke Emia]

Colapinto of course not crashy at all. Why isn't, say, Kevin Magnussen in the seat?

I do think this. Colapinto did well at Williams last season by virtue of not being as completely fucking useless as Sargent and Latifi. He made quite a few mistakes(which is to be expected), but I don't think he's going into that car and getting points consistently or anything and seems just as likely to be chucking it into the wall as Doohan is as well.

I think this impatience by teams seems to be getting worse partly because there are no real 'backmarkers' on the grid anymore who are content to pootle around and get zero points every season. I know Alpine are French, Haas are a bit shit and the Sauber is terrible(but even they are being bought out). In a previous life the likes of Doohan, Lawson etcetera would have had a year in a shitbag at the back of the grid being a lap or 2 laps behind the leaders and if they showed any talent at all they would have been picked up by a bigger team. Now the teams at the back are parachuting these guys in and can't fathom why they aren't automatically in the points after 2 or 3 races and why they are making mistakes.

[Ben]

I think this impatience by teams seems to be getting worse partly because there are no real 'backmarkers' on the grid anymore who are content to pootle around and get zero points every season..

This is it. No team gets consistently lapped every week anymore, so they all believe they have a shot of points.

Sauber were the only team to get lapped in China and that was because of mistakes, not just outright slow pace. They got a 7th place the race before.

Even looking back to the first Chinese GP 20 years ago. Everyone up to 10th got lapped, with the Minardi getting the privilege three times.

The Concorde Agreement (don't know which one it was) that give top teams ultimate power and essentially made the barriers to entry impossible for independents really started the ultra-reliability and competitiveness we see now.

[SincereTheRebel]

It wasnt that long ago that Hamilton and Mercedas on a weekly basis, lapped the whole field up 6th place.

[Ben]

I'm talking more recent than that. Probably post-COVID (or maybe just before, when everyone started to close the huge gap on Mercedes).

Just looked it up. 2018 to 2019 the mechanical retirement rate almost halved overnight, and it's only getting lower. Once everyone kept their cars on track for the full race, it was a matter of time before they made more performance gains.

[John Arne]

Doohan forgetting to disable DRS on a flat out corner and smashing the car into 14,000 pieces :D

[niko_cee]

Isn't it supposed to disengage itself when you touch the brake [no idea if that is applicable here]?

[Gray Fox]

Isn't it supposed to disengage itself when you touch the brake [no idea if that is applicable here]?

This is correct.

There is also talk the 2026 cars will have a kind of motor for the rear wing that flattens it out on straights but brings up the angle on it through corners. So that could lead to some similar kinds of failures.

[Disco]

The first part of turn one is flat out, he was supposedly trying something that worked in the sim. Might be some correlation issues to sort out there.

[John Arne]

Isn't it supposed to disengage itself when you touch the brake [no idea if that is applicable here]?

It does, but with the first part of the corner taken flat out, he needed to disengage manually.

[Shindig]

I did think it was weird how the rear swapped on him. I feel sorry for the lad, to be honest.

[SincereTheRebel]

Its a good thing. Shows things are not all that cute and sweet. The cars should be tricky to drive. Ive even saw Alonso make several mistakes during the first three events.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Alonso is in danger of being washed. Is Max going there for 26 or will Papa Stroll bring Hideki Noda out of retirement to try and make his boy look good?

[niko_cee]

Merc have the edge in the new regs don't they [according to THE GRAPEVINE]? So he'll be off there if he has any sense.

[Gray Fox]

Said grapevine also suggests Cadillac have Russell and Perez(lol) lined up as their preferred driver pairing. So it could all work out.

[Disco]

The conspiracy theory around dumping Lawson was that Red Bull need two cars scoring points in order to reach the performance threshold in Verstappen's contract and stop him jumping to Mercedes too easily. Not sure I buy that but he can't stay there forever.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Then why not sign Carlos Sainz.

[Gray Fox]

The paddock talk was that was a veto by camp Verstappen as the two dads would kill each other.

[niko_cee]

Quite a good set up if you have a get out of contract clause if the other driver is a retard and also a veto over whoever gets said driver position.

[Jimmy Floyd]

God I love JV. Just the right balance between autism and entertainment.

[SincereTheRebel]

Hadjar got his penis stuck in his zipper or something?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Bearman Q3 in that van is incredibly impressive, no matter how unnerving his whole vibe is.

[Clunge]

Lawson outqualifying Tsunoda :D. Although both of them getting donned by Hadjar and his torture pants.

[Adramelch]

I get the whole "he needs more time" thing with Doohan and I do agree, but you can't deny he's looking a bit like Sargeant out there.

[Waffdon]

Offft, that front 3 were tight in qualifying. P1 tends to always win here but the two mclarens should eat Verstappen alive on track

Also, surely everyone P4 and under will be starting on hards and going long due to the inevitable fire on track and getting a free tyre change

[Giggles]

Missed another one. When do we get to the races that aren't at stupid times?

[Shindig]

Next weekend. Nothing but reasonable times until Las Vegas in November.

[Waffdon]

Forgot we’ve already got a triple header. The scheduling is so dumb

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Lando lol.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I don't understand why McLaren didn't leave one of their drivers out in clean air and try an overcut. Completely botched their advantage of having two runners up against Red Bull's one.

[SincereTheRebel]

They did the same in Monza last year with that Leclerc win.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's been noticeable over the second half of last year and start of this year how bad the TV direction is. Think they have someone with really no talent in the job.

Utter snooze this race, these cars are useless.

[Disco]

Croft desperate to introduce some jeopardy, shot down by JV at every opportunity. :drool:

[John Arne]

They really should have let Piastri have a go at Max a couple of laps back.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Croft desperate to introduce some jeopardy, shot down by JV at every opportunity. :drool:

His race-long campaign for McLaren to swap Norris and Piastri is genuinely insane.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Also genuinely impressed how Stroll has managed to drop 23 seconds off the back here. Not sure what's happened there.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I reckon you could have put the cars in more or less any order at the start of that race and they would have stayed more or less in that order. Very little pace difference, just dirty air.

[Clunge]

Absolute guff that.

[Disco]

Not even an attempt at overtaking anywhere in the top ten.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Not even an attempt at overtaking anywhere in the top ten.

L Hamilton went by Hadjar early on, that was the only time position changed in the top ten between qualifying and the flag.

[Disco]

Agent Piastri giving the game away in the drivers room.

[Waffdon]

This era of being unable to follow cars due to dirty air is utterly boring

[Gray Fox]

Yeah they got rid of that well with the regulation changes, but those pesky engineers have undone all of the good work.

[Ben]

It was only three years ago when these regulations came in that they were bragging about how the ground effect will eliminate dirty air and they had the scope to introduce sweeping changes at the drop of a hat when engineers inevitably find loopholes. What a fucking laugh.

[Ben]

Also Croft is a complete knob these days. He was always annoying via his basic errors and ridiculous enthusiasm when it wasn’t called for, but now he’s a cocky, contradicting prick. Nice to see Autistic JV having none of it.

[Disco]

I'm not sure 'dirty air' is a problem you can really solve, especially in F1 where there are zero people with even the slightest interest in trying.

[Waffdon]

Also genuinely impressed how Stroll has managed to drop 23 seconds off the back here. Not sure what's happened there.

He started the season very well (for his standards). Was due a drop off

Pitting Norris the same time of Verstappen was another amazing McLaren pit wall call

[Ben]

Antonelli and Hadjar looking like genuine prospects.

[Ben]

Agent Piastri giving the game away in the drivers room.

What did he say? Absolutely baffling that they sat both their cars in the dirty air all day and made no effort to change that.

[Disco]

Bearman too, he was great yesterday in what turned out to be the most important session.

[Disco]

What did he say? Absolutely baffling that they sat both their cars in the dirty air all day and made no effort to change that.

His response to the highlights was 'Is that all that happened'.

[Shindig]

Man, that was a waste of a race. Lando driving onto the grass probably made little difference but it was still stupid.

[Clunge]

I'm cynical enough to think they pitted Norris the same lap as Verstappen to create that very scenario so Norris could over-egg it on the grass and push for a penalty.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Antonelli and Hadjar looking like genuine prospects.

Antonelli is ludicrously raw but you can see the pace is there. I will for now withdraw my De Cesaris allegations.

I think I like Bearman most from the set though, at least until he opens his mouth.

[Disco]

Hopefully he Hamiltons his dad before long so we don't have to endure 27 different shots of him in the pits per race.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Also apply that to Norris's dad in his down-with-the-kids clobber.

[thommo]

I'm cynical enough to think they pitted Norris the same lap as Verstappen to create that very scenario so Norris could over-egg it on the grass and push for a penalty.

They only got that opportunity because Red Bull fucked up the pit stop - think it was a second longer than McLaren's.

Great weekend from Verstappen overall, amazing pole lap. Hilarious that there are still people crying that Norris didn't let Piastri through to chase Max down when that would actively hurt him in the WDC in the long run.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It would be utterly insane in that scenario to step off the gas and let your team mate through. They all did the right thing, the cars just restricted the window of possibility to basically zero, which I think a lot of people struggle to grasp.

What McLaren got wrong was not taking a punt on the fact that Verstappen might be held up in traffic with new tyres (he was behind Hamilton on the hards I think) and try to overcut him with one of their cars. Might not have worked but it would have been 2-3 finish anyway so why not try it. I suspect that inter-team politics held up the chance to do that and they thought they'd just be conservative, take the 2-3 and move on. Not great for the viewing public.

Drivers behind claiming they have to pace to do x, y and z and should be let through is always bollocks and should be discounted.

[Shindig]

I still don't think McLaren give an arse about the drivers title. Constructors is where the money is and the two drivers are good enough to podium the whole season.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I woke up at 6:30 and fell asleep by around 7:30.

Other than the Lando/Max pitstop thing literally nothing happened.

[Pepe]

Good to see Tsunoda bringing the zero points Red Bull really needed. Enjoy your next and last race, lad.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1908777946170392723

Yuki :cool:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Weebs out in force on the multivote. Antonelli probably actually deserved it this time but didn't get it, democracy remains enigmatic in the F1 fanbase. Need John Curtice on the case.

[Ben]

Why do the weebs obsess about Tsunoda? Because he’s cute and cuddly? The hoops his fans jump through to champion/defend him are wild.

[Giggles]

Why do the weebs obsess about Tsunoda? Because he’s cute and cuddly? The hoops his fans jump through to champion/defend him are wild.

I don't know where they get that from. To be the most petulant little prick in a field of F1 drivers is some going.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I like him (not to the Weeb level) because he's so tiny.

He's basically pocket sized.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Albon was giving him some rivarly in the spoiled brat stakes on the radio earlier.

[Disco]

The driver of the day graphic was quite funny, it outlined not only his rip-roaring drive from 15th-12th but also got his number wrong. Nine different angles of Leclerc's dog though so production budget is well spent.

[7om]

I’d love Verstappen to shithouse his way to the title this year. McLaren don’t seem to have the killer instinct he does.

[Gray Fox]

I'd much rather he won it than the other Belgian, to be fair.

[phonics]

The state of this 'Grid vs Finishing Spot' table.

https://i.imgur.com/TvaP53B.png

[Gray Fox]

Get in there Lewis.

[Pepe]

Suzuka is a great track but these cars are way too big for it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

These cars are too big for almost anything that isn't a six-lane motorway.

[John Arne]

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5fff19a53631e84d3b525da5/5fff1e8e1171046ea7f39b3b/601acf2d1933ae4c3b4245f7/1612388048204/20LaneHwy.jpg?format=1500w

[niko_cee]

Vehicle imports to the US today

[John Arne]

:D

[Waffdon]

If there’s no safety cars, this could be 2010s Merc level of dominance this weekend from McLaren

[Ben]

Those gaps are huge. However I think it'll all come back to the other teams when the temperatures drop later.

It's probably still beyond Verstappen to plonk it amongst the McLarens though. Russell might be the top contender actually.

[Waffdon]

Norris is always dog shit in his first run in Q3. I’m not sure he’s been ahead of Piastri once this season after the first run. Just puts so much pressure on himself for the final run.

Russell is mega. 1 second ahead of the rest :D

[Gray Fox]

These time deletions coming in 40 minutes late is pathetic. Shambles.

[Waffdon]

Okay, I’m all aboard Norris is a bottling shitebag. My god, what the fuck was that. Easiest top 2 of your life and he’s out done by a French car

He’ll probably still finish P2 tomorrow as it’s easy to overtake here and their race pace is monstrous but he’s given Piastri another easy win

[Waffdon]

Just clocked he’s next to max as well on the starting grid. Forget that P2 shout, DNF for days.

[Pepe]

Is Hamilton washed?

[niko_cee]

Probably

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/formula-1/2025/01/20/TELEMMGLPICT000408830541_17373790881550_trans_NvBQ zQNjv4BqBKH8AIB-_6pkQzw4ZJm0ez-JRwLouY5Edxlj947BtFc.jpeg?imwidth=680

[Giggles]

Ferrari are washed.

[Gray Fox]

A couple of weekends ago he seemingly won the sprint race quite easily. I think he was always going to be 2nd best to Leclerc over a single lap.

In his older days he seems to be what a footballer would be described as a confidence player. That said the car seems honking for the most part this year. Very small window it actually works well in.

Didn't they also being some 'upgrades' to this race too?

[Adramelch]

Decent start. We haven't had one of those for a while, have we?

[SincereTheRebel]

Surprised Lando got such a great start from 6th.

[Gray Fox]

Surprised Lando got such a great start from 6th.

Now we know why.

[Shindig]

I assume that's a stop-go for it?

[Gray Fox]

It used to be a drive through for it I believe. But they seem to be gone these days. I suspect 10s or a stop/go.

[Adramelch]

Alonso got a 5 second for something similar recently, so not surprised it's the same here, but he most definitely will take that trade.

[Gray Fox]

5s seems a bit too lenient there for me. He gains much more with those 2/3 places.

[Adramelch]

It's definitely too lenient. For something as black and white as that I think they need to be more strict.

[SincereTheRebel]

Trial races where you must drive on all tyres

[SincereTheRebel]

I do like these new wider onboard cameras with camera shake. You get more sense of ths speed

[Gray Fox]

As usual, the fuck are Ferrari doing not 1 stopping?

[SincereTheRebel]

Max the only man on hards is struggling. I would have liked to see Leclerc on the the one stop. He has won several races with that gamble.

[Ben]

I missed it but he’s got a 5 second penalty for jumping three spots off the line?

What a laughable penalty. I’d be jump starting every week in that case.

[Giggles]

5 seconds makes it worth jumping.

[Gray Fox]

I missed it but he’s got a 5 second penalty for jumping three spots off the line?

What a laughable penalty. I’d be jump starting every week in that case.

He was only a foot or two, too far forwards, but he rocketed off the line and got up to 3rd.

[Gray Fox]

Tyres seem to be melting here, which is nice too see. 2 stops could even prove problematic for some drivers.

[Gray Fox]

That's just a safety car for the sake of entertainment surely?

[Adramelch]

No way they needed a full safety car just to clear some debris.