December football: bald men hold sway

[niko_cee]

I looked at the stats after reading that post and Arsenal are an odd case. Their overall stats like xG etc look fine, but it does feel like they have the tendency to really run up the score at times [like that run earlier in the year when they won 4 or 5 games by an aggregate score of like 25-0 or something] and then, at other times, really struggle to create anything, so whilst the stats even out, the points don't always follow. One thing that I would say about them is that they have previously been excellent front runners, but at the same time seem quite dependent on getting the first goal, if that makes sense. I do think there is a case that in old school proper football man received wisdom terms they "don't have enough goals in the team".

[Gray Fox]

And to be fair, the rapist also missed a header from a corner, from inside the 6 yard box. Probably scores that 8/9 times out of 10. Arsenal will probably be miffed because other than Fulhams goal, I don't think they had more than 1 real shot as they were being penned back.

[niko_cee]

I think what I'm trying to say is that if you look at understat, so far this season Liverpool have had an xG of 2 or more in all bar 3 games, and in those 3 games they still had more than their opponent in xG terms.

Arsenal, on the other hand, have been under 2 xG in 9 of their games, and under 1 in 2, but they had an xG of 6.05 against Leicester and 4 against West Ham which leaves them just over 0.5xG behind Liverpool over the season.

It's obviously a crude methodology, but suggests they are susceptible to, if not the low block of days gone by, then something similar.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They're susceptible to the fact that they're a bunch of chuggers designed to starve out the opposition first and foremost. It's like Pepball without any of the poncing around.

[niko_cee]

Very succinctly put.

[Manc]

Both Arsenal and City are suffering from having squads on the smaller side.

[Waffdon]

I think what I'm trying to say is that if you look at understat, so far this season Liverpool have had an xG of 2 or more in all bar 3 games, and in those 3 games they still had more than their opponent in xG terms.

Arsenal, on the other hand, have been under 2 xG in 9 of their games, and under 1 in 2, but they had an xG of 6.05 against Leicester and 4 against West Ham which leaves them just over 0.5xG behind Liverpool over the season.

It's obviously a crude methodology, but suggests they are susceptible to, if not the low block of days gone by, then something similar.
The real damming statistic is Arsenal’s XG creation in open play is 13th best in the league. They heavily rely on set pieces to open up games. It’s never going to win you league titles, even if you go through periods of blitzing teams with your set pieces like they did the past two weeks. They’ve slowly got worse the past 3 seasons.

[Luke Emia]

The real damming statistic is Arsenal’s XG creation in open play is 13th best in the league. They heavily rely on set pieces to open up games. It’s never going to win you league titles, even if you go through periods of blitzing teams with your set pieces like they did the past two weeks. They’ve slowly got worse the past 3 seasons.

Which was the point I was making. Just parachuting Isak into the team isn't going to suddenly make them a much better team, because they aren't creating chances for their forwards from open play. It's not like they've got a spastic like Nunez or Nicolas Jackson from the early part of last season missing chance after chance from open play.

[Gray Fox]

You can't just mention Nunez as a comparison to Jackson like that. Waff is going to implode.

[Baz]

I know who I'd rather have and its not even close.

[Waffdon]

You can't just mention Nunez as a comparison to Jackson like that. Waff is going to implode.

My man.

Could do with an alternative option up front though other than putting Nkunku up there on his own out of position. Duran would have been perfect. Another W from that Chelsea scouting team

[Luke Emia]

To be fair I did say the start of last season. He’s still very raw but he has improved massively since Chelsea first signed him.

[niko_cee]

Sir Jim Ratcliffe’s radical cost-cutting at Manchester United has included the staff’s £100 Christmas bonus being replaced by a £40 voucher for Marks & Spencer.

While the Glazer family were running the club, staff received their £100 bonus each year before Christmas but this time around they are receiving a £40 voucher instead. The Christmas party has also been cancelled for this year, given the job-losses at the club.

:D

Probably all made up but lol nonetheless. I guess someone has to cough up for all the severance payments.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It genuinely astounds me that staff in an industry worth that much money are paid so little.

[Kikó]

Most staff are casual (minimum wage) and even the more senior roles are maxing out at about 60k.

[phonics]

For the first time in about 4 years we decided not to boot it out of bounds to the corner flag, we lose the ball off the first pass and they counter attack. won’t be seeing that again.

[phonics]

Darren Fletcher is truly fucking abysmal and should be sacked.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He's the only commentator other than Matterface who is not just annoying (a matter of taste, ultimately) but technically bad at his job, an ineffectual communicator. How those two have the gigs they have is baffling.

[Yevrah]

It genuinely astounds me that staff in an industry worth that much money are paid so little.

It’s not worth that much in the grand scheme of things.

[phonics]

He's the only commentator other than Matterface who is not just annoying (a matter of taste, ultimately) but technically bad at his job, an ineffectual communicator. How those two have the gigs they have is baffling.

Every week I am forced to listen to the definition of 'ignorant twat at the pub sitting at the other table' and he commentates in exactly the same style. It's not play by play.

[phonics]

Also the Monaco manager looks exactly like French Graeme Souness.

[niko_cee]

City making a good fist of being shit but there's so much dross down there that I doubt any half decent teams are going to end up failing to make it into the next round. Top 8 could be vaguely interesting.

[niko_cee]

It does 1st plays 16th, then the winner of 8th versus 9th and all the way through.

Yeah, I hadn't realised this. Dunno if it qualifies as a MacIntyre system, but it seems finishing 1 or 2 is actually quite a good idea as it gets you a theoretically much easier last 16 tie - notwithstanding PSG and City being dangerous floaters down there.

The way they've done it does seem a bit odd though.

[niko_cee]

Just seen that Southampton are playing Spurs on Sunday night at 7pm. What? Why?

Chelsea are also playing then?

:cab:

[Luke Emia]

Is it not something to do with they guarantee you won't play an away game within a certain number of hours of your European game or something similar.

[Ben]

If you don't like it, thank Klopp. Loads of clubs were unhappy that the FA didn't seem to support their progression in Europe. Klopp was the most vocal about it, so they eventually came to this compromise.

Seems logical really, in an era where everyone is obsessed with the league coefficient.

[Waffdon]

Just seen that Southampton are playing Spurs on Sunday night at 7pm. What? Why?

Chelsea are also playing then?

:cab:

Chelsea’s game got moved after the draw came out as they won’t arrive back into London after playing in Kazakhstan until tomorrow at some point. Not that it really matters as no outfield players who’ve travelled will even play on Sunday. Definitely benefits Chelsea though as they are so much better at Stamford Bridge in night games (probably because the crowd have had a bevy)

[Jimmy Floyd]

Now that there's a performance incentive (5th CL place) in the coefficient thing, it makes total sense. Arguably, Chelsea's opponents should simply fall on their swords and give them the 3 points in the national interest.

[-james-]

No, top 8 get a bye to the round of 16 and are all seeded and play the winners of the knockout round. 9th - 16th are seeded against 17th - 24th in the knockout round.

I am obliged to report that this is misinformation.

https://i.imgur.com/bogkiuq.png

So there is in theory an advantage in coming nearer the top of the standings because you avoid the teams that came 9th/10th, but it currently looks like there could be a Liverpool - Real/City/PSG tie if the latter get their acts together.

[Ben]

It's confusing as fuck and we're better off not trying to understand it.

Having said that, despite being a staunch critic of the new format before it began, it's been far more entertaining than anything we've had in at least 10 years.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I think we've been lucky with a relatively interesting set of teams.

[Ben]

There's just no competition for Chelsea at all. The third tournament really exposes the hoards of shite around the continent.

Maybe Fiorentina, who have been on fire in Serie A lately, but they got humbled by the giants APOEL Nicosia last time out.

The only other notable name is Betis and they've been downright embarrassing so far.

[Waffdon]

Shamrock being unbeaten says it all.

Dewsbury-Hall still somehow this worst player on the pitch again :D

[Kikó]

Waff, the father in law has got me tickets for the United-Aberdeen and Dundee derby games 😍

[Kikó]

We actually spent hundreds of millions on a team this bad.

[niko_cee]

£40m for Rashford if anyone fancies.

Bids not expected.

[Kikó]

Bring ruud back.

[Magic]

Waff, the father in law has got me tickets for the United-Aberdeen and Dundee derby games 😍

He must fucking hate you.

[Kikó]

I love it TBH. The SPL sponsored by Sarclays is decent entertainment.

[niko_cee]

We actually spent hundreds of millions on a team this bad.

Could be a new Paco Rabanne advert.

It costs a billion to look this bad.

[Kikó]

We're BACK CUNTS

[Waffdon]

World Cup draw is on atm

How Sweden, Wales and Norway are all in pot 2 ahead of Scotland is baffling to me

[SvN]

It's not complicated - https://inside.fifa.com/en/fifa-world-ranking/men

[Waffdon]

It shows how bobbins the rankings are though. Scotland were at the last knockout competition. None of them teams were. Norway got battered by Scotland in the group in fact. Scotland finishing 3rd in the League A nations league group and thus not being relegated has actually done them more harm than good

[SvN]

Yeah, it's pretty well established that the rankings are a pile of shit. Hence why Belgium were number 1 for about 4 years despite doing fuck all when it matters.

[Manc]

Serbia, Albania, Latvia & Andorra. Christ.

[-james-]

Serbia - Albania :kebab:

I thought that was one of the ones they didn't let happen.

[Giggles]

Our soccer media seem to be awfully pleased with our draw considering I wouldn't back us to beat any of them home or away.

[Baz]

1867593850757218423

Surely this is a surprise to nobody.

[Bam]

Wasn't it supposed to be racist to suggest this sort of thing happens? :flirt:

[Manc]

Joseph Minala will never be beaten.

[niko_cee]

Now that there's a performance incentive (5th CL place) in the coefficient thing, it makes total sense. Arguably, Chelsea's opponents should simply fall on their swords and give them the 3 points in the national interest.

This in the league or the conference?

I assume what's happened here is that BT want to show whichever game it is [presumably Chelsea?] but were lolled out of existence at the thought of it being in their usual Saturday lunchtime slot, so it has had to migrate away from any potential conflict with sky owned tv time. And then whichever of Spurs and Chelsea aren't due to be on have shat the bed at the other team getting more time off so they've just caved and put them on at the same time. Fair old slog to get back from Glasgow, after all.

[John Arne]

TAA way too lazy then, far too easy for Fulham to get the cross in.

[Gray Fox]

I swear Fulham always score first in this game.

Lucky to still have 11v11 here mind you.

[John Arne]

Well, that's a red. And there's no offside, let's get on with it. This ref looks a little out of his depth.

[Waffdon]

Would be tremendous if Fulham hold on but once Liverpool get their today dodgy goal they’ll get another 2 mins later and that’ll be that

[Gray Fox]

Big test of character this. We look cooked.

[John Arne]

Trent with the ball is so good, Trent without the ball must have the lowest football IQ in the prem.

[John Arne]

Issa Diop has the look of a man who is constantly bemused.

[John Arne]

Who is the co-commentator in the Liverpool - Fulham game? It's a Scouser whose voice I recognise.... Warnock?

[Gray Fox]

Stephen Warnock it is.

Good recovery there, but I sense Fulham have this in hand. I will guess we get a late send on of Jota and Chiesa only to see the 2nd goal go in the other end. Any points a joy from here.

[Waffdon]

If you score you will win. We see it all the time at Anfield.

[Waffdon]

There you go

[Waffdon]

That’s some lump on Tete’s knee

[Gray Fox]

This game has got some very unexpected needle to it. Love to see it. Not the wisest for Fulham though surely?

[John Arne]

The quicker TAA fucks off to Madrid, the better.

[Waffdon]

Get Traore on so he can have his 1 good game a year. Alexander Arnold has been hilarious defensively

[Waffdon]

Fulham have played really well after conceding to be fair to them. Took the sting right out the game and have got in behind Alexander Arnold at will

I take it back. They’ve well and truly shit themselves since taking the lead, letting Liverpool come back into the game when they were comfortable

[John Arne]

Nine minutes :D

[Waffdon]

Antonee Robinson is absolutely class. Improves most teams in the league

[John Arne]

Gravenberch has been superb today. His ability to turn out of trouble is so good.

[Waffdon]

This feels like the 3rd or 4th week in a row where results have went Chelsea’s way. Be it Arsenal and Liverpool dropping points or all the teams fighting for top 5 dropping points every other game.

They’ll have to do something they’ve never done tomorrow and beat Brentford in the league at home. Lost all 3 times they’ve face Brentford since they came up

[Gray Fox]

Very impressed by Slot staying cool under pressure there. Had Trent not been a bomb scare Fulham would have had very little despite the 10 men.

Robinson vital to the point in the late stages. It might be time for that difficult decision in the summer in regards Robertson.

Jota a massive difference maker late on. Just improves the front line so much.

[Waffdon]

I’ve clocked Jota. He is insane at FIFA (pro level good) and he genuinely plays football like he’s playing FIFA. He must have done 3 or 4 fake shots in that game alone and nobody expects it

[thommo]

Antonee Robinson is absolutely class. Improves most teams in the league

https://media1.tenor.com/m/5RcYHqY9soQAAAAd/the-office-michael-scott.gif

Ultimately a great result, just wish we had a little bit more composure to see it out after retaking the lead. But we played today with our 3rd and 4th choice CBs and overall, that's a good unbeaten run of 6 points from 4 games (Spurs (A), Brighton (H), Arsenal (H), Liverpool (A)).

[phonics]

Antonee Robinson is absolutely class. Improves most teams in the league

No player has played Saka as well as he did in a year. The only player that didn’t need a double team.

[Danny]

I’ve clocked Jota. He is insane at FIFA (pro level good) and he genuinely plays football like he’s playing FIFA. He must have done 3 or 4 fake shots in that game alone and nobody expects it

Just wait until he starts trying to kick off glitch.

[Shindig]

Leicester were absolutely nowhere today. At least we're coming into the Quarter Final with ... some form.

[Manc]

Some save from Martinez.

[Jimmy Floyd]

John McGinn seems to get the benefit in every refereeing decision. Even when he committed murder a few weeks back the red card decision went to VAR, the on field ref wasn't interested. I think refs find his aggressive persona intimidating.

[AJ23]

Forest have suddenly turned into Villa from last season. Good to see classic provincial clubs doing well again.

[Danny]

1867955810988646596

[Spikey M]

:D

[thommo]

Wolves have sacked O'Neil.

[SincereTheRebel]

It was expected given the mess they are in. No idea who would want to the job to replace him

[Manc]

Ole at the wheel.

[Gray Fox]

Looks like we're getting Kelly Cates, Gabby Logan and "Chappers" sharing the MOTD job. I'm sure Joey Barton is thrilled.

[Luke Emia]

Looks like we're getting Kelly Cates, Gabby Logan and "Chappers" sharing the MOTD job. I'm sure Joey Barton is thrilled.

I think all three of the are good presenters to be honest with you. I like Cates when she hosts on SKY so will be a shame that she’s not on there anymore.

They’ve probably realised if they gave it to Alex Scott then Farage and The Express would have gone into meltdown over being too ‘woke’.

[John Arne]

Mitsubishi Cup starts this month, which is the ASEAN national tournament, formerly Tiger Cup, Suzuki Cup, AFF Cup.

Closer to home, Vietnam not wanting to miss out on the dodgy foreigners quota have thrown a passport at Rafaelson Bezerra Fernandes, now known as Nguyễn Xuân Son, who has spent 4 years in the country and will make his debut in the opening game against Laos.



Interesting caveat to the Vietnam selection of the Brazilian striker... although cleared by FIFA and the AFF, he doesn't actually become eligible until the final group game (after 20th Dec - 5yrs after having arrived) - so he'll become eligible to play halfway through the tournament :D

Vietnam playing Indonesia now for those without nothing to do right now.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgSMm-abAi8

[niko_cee]

That's an outrageously lucky goal. Controls it off the point of his shoulder whilst looking the other way, and then absolutely shanks the cross, which somehow loops perfectly onto the attacker.

[niko_cee]

No idea who would want to the job to replace him

https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/ftcms%3A9820b6b0-3292-4003-915f-dad20b7395f9?source=next-article&fit=scale-down&quality=highest&width=700&dpr=1

[Jimmy Floyd]

Genuinely never wanted both teams to lose as much as in this manchststdaabeh. Maybe the France-Argentina final ran it close.

[niko_cee]

Brighton have obviously been walking under ladders of something to have had both Alex Iwobi and Ismaila Sarr turn up against them in little over a week.

That City line-up looks properly mental.

[Manc]

Amorim casually rocking Paul Smith.

[John Arne]

That German keeper that got a lighter thrown at home properly milked it. Barely touched him yet he couldn't get back on the field after a 20 minute stoppage.

[Waffdon]

Mason Mount :D

Still arguably the best piece of business to sell him for £50+ million with less than 12 months on his contract you’ll see

[Gray Fox]

Rube might actually get the size of the problem, if he's going to punt Trashy and Highlights to the reserves.

[Manc]

City are abysmal.

[Waffdon]

Properly grim stuff. Man Utd playing ridiculously slow as well which is not helping

[Bernanke]

This is dreadful all around.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

BAN corners.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Book Walker for that.

[Bernanke]

Walker needs a red.

[Waffdon]

I’m looking forward to more meltdowns from Walker on social media this week after that

[Ben]

Walker should get the marching orders for that. Properly embarrassing.

The whole game is shite mind. Belongs in League One.

[niko_cee]

Good grief this is shit, just error after error on both sides.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

STONEWALL penalty.

[Manc]

Lenny Yoro looking a sixth former.

[Waffdon]

Nunes :D

Can’t tell which mistake was worse

[niko_cee]

:drool:

[Waffdon]

:lol:

Amazing

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Amad :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:

He's been brilliant since Anorim came in.

[Gray Fox]

Genuinely he should be in contention for the sack now.

[Manc]

Majestic.

[Dark Soldier]

Not been this moist in years

[Waffdon]

Aston Villa away next week to stick the nail in the coffin

[niko_cee]

Pep's got to be on the verge of Dave Cameroning it and walking away from this mess.

[Waffdon]

That Chelsea loss to Man City on the opening day might cost them the title. :henn0rz:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1868333952873722048

:lol:

[Spikey M]

Even Southampton can beat this team, Surely? Honking line up.

1868351900367605819?t=EZuvIyy4PV0j_8nwyQRSfg&s=19

[Baz]

Have you seen Southampton this season? Wouldn’t even get out the Championship, nevermind survive the Premier League.

[Gray Fox]

Southampton v Spurs seems like a massive just the way we play mate derby.

[Kikó]

Amad is fucking glorious. Never would have thought it but here we are. Some very good performances today.

[Gray Fox]

City looked terrified of even United having the ball. No idea what to do.

I see the Saints fans have finally turned on the manager too. No way back now surely.

[Waffdon]

I’ve seen enough already. Brentford win this game 0-2.

[Jimmy Floyd]

What Russell Martin does at work would be the equivalent of me going in tomorrow and trying for an asphyxi-wank in the CEO's office.

[Spikey M]

Yeah, ok, Southampton are really quite shit. :D

[Magic]

What Russell Martin does at work would be the equivalent of me going in tomorrow and trying for an asphyxi-wank in the CEO's office.

I can't believe we lost to them in the final.

[Gray Fox]

Can they just wait until after the cup game to sack him?

[Waffdon]

Chelsea doing that thing where they go 1-0 up whilst dominating but then miss a few easy chances and let the team back into it. Baldy could do with making a sub

[Gray Fox]

In Jackson you trust.

[Waffdon]

He’s been utterly pathetic but that’ll do nicely :cool:

Played great last season until the finishing side. Seems to have become the opposite this year (although he did miss an open goal 15 mins ago)

[Waffdon]

Chelsea have been beyond dreadful this half. Throwing bodies forward at 2-0 and now Brentford right back into. Youthfulness at its best

[Bam]

I’ve seen enough already. Brentford win this game 0-2.

This aged well.

[Waffdon]

Worst performance of the season arguably, certainly the second half anyway. Title winning result though :cool:

[AJ23]

Russell Martin is so stubborn and arrogant to not change his principles when it's clearly going to send Southampton down.

As long as Martin goes home happy with his team's possession stats, that's all that matters. Their fans must be livid.

[Gray Fox]

They mentioned on commentary that he's being asked to do this by the owners. Might explain why he hasn't been sacked yet if it's true.

Fans chanting they want the manager out at a home game, 15 minutes in, probably does see him gone though. It just benefits nobody him staying.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Why do the owners want him to do it? Are they morons?

[phonics]

Russell Martin is so stubborn and arrogant to not change his principles when it's clearly going to send Southampton down.

As long as Martin goes home happy with his team's possession stats, that's all that matters. Their fans must be livid.

I would be absolutely fine with this if they were good at doing it and getting caught. The problem is they're fucking awful at it and achieve nothing. I watch a team that passes out from the back 9.5/10 times. They're so comitted to this idea that they've spent 35 million quid on a keeper, given that keeper a 5 year contract renewal and then spent another 40 million quid on someone else because he's marginally better at it.

You watch the teams that know what they're doing, the whole point is to have 3 options at all times from GK and 4 for the defender. If the kick goes left he can go up the wing, into the middle left, across to someone on the edge of the box or back to the keeper. Same for the right. The middle is only used to encourage a press so that you can go right/left and have an easy pass to right/left middle. Meanwhile Martin seems to encourage a system where you pass to the middle, force that guy to receive the ball facing his goal and hope he can pull off a wonderpass to right/left middle under pressure or pass to right/left if he's not sure. It's introducing a svere amount of risk to get about 10 yards outside of your own penalty box. It makes no sense.

[AJ23]

:D :D :D

https://i.ibb.co/WvfDZF8/IMG-3577.jpg

[phonics]

Why do the owners want him to do it? Are they morons?

Considering the owner is currently under investigation for money laundering I'm not sure the books can afford a sudden multi million pound hit.

[mo]

Martin sacked. Been a day for it, it seems.

[Lewis]

Not sure what I think about a seven o'clock Sunday kick-off. What did ten Hag have against Amad the bald freak?

[Jimmy Floyd]

As for West London Blue, another splendid result that we wouldn't have got last season in the days before the bald Leicester manager. If you'd told me in August we'd be 6 points ahead of Nottingham Forest I'd have bitten your hand off.

[niko_cee]

:D

I see it's about to be Sir Gareth.

United gonna be extra gutted they didn't listen to Ashworth now. They could have got themselves a round table and everything.

[randomlegend]

I appreciate that City are in crisis at the moment, but that's the first time in about 5 years we've played a top 2/3 team and looked like we intend to actually try to play against them. We deserved to win and it was a good performance.

Rub Enamorim fucking off Rashford and Garnacho was great too.

Amad is quality.

[randomlegend]

1868713027706798112

This is why people hate refs. Completely incapable of coming on and just admitting his mate was wrong. Has to present the united front in the face of all logic and reason. It's pathetic.

[Manc]

Mike Dean said something to the effect of, "It isn't enough for a game of this magnitude." Irrelevant, pal. It's either a foul or it isn't.

[Waffdon]

I didn’t think this season could be going any better but apparently Mudryk has tested positive for a banned substance. More potential game time for Tyrique George :drool:

[Jimmy Floyd]

I mean, technically Litvinenko 'tested positive for a banned substance'.

[niko_cee]

Are they trying the old Mutu trick to get their money back off him?

[Luke Emia]

Jota might be injured again. Might be worth seeing if there is any value in the market in January before we inevitably try to get rid of Nunez and everyone jacks their prices up because they know we are desperate for a striker.

[Baz]

Gyokeres would be nice?

I see Troy Deeney's been calling him rubbish too, so all the more reason to sign the blank cheque.

[Gray Fox]

I do think the tide has turned on Nunez support from the fan base now. Also doesn't help that Jota looked infinitely better in his cameo, and scored as many goals in that 10 minutes as Nunez did the entire time Jota has been out.

Playing Diaz through the middle over him a sign that Slot has maybe seen enough too. Hes stated that there will be heavy rotation and academy players in for the cup game so if Nunez trots out there too you have confirmation.

I would like to see us break the trend of not doing January signings though. We're in a two horse race for the league and have got January off in Europe. All while not really having a centre forward.

[niko_cee]

If Liverpool are looking for a centre forward I'd be much happier if they went for someone like Joao Pedro [albeit then having to pay the enormous Brighton tax] than some Portuguese league likely flat track bully. Been down that route already. Still like Nunez but he hasn't done himself many favours in the Slot era.

[Waffdon]

Nkunku would be incredible in that Liverpool side

[niko_cee]

Doesn't strike me as a particularly hard worker [not seen a lot though] so I'm not sure, I think that's the main thing required. Pure finishers not wanted.

[Waffdon]

Yeah that’s the downside. In saying that, you have 3 runners in midfield most games so I’m sure they could carry Nkunku and Salah’s workrate

[randomlegend]

If Liverpool are looking for a centre forward I'd be much happier if they went for someone like Joao Pedro [albeit then having to pay the enormous Brighton tax] than some Portuguese league likely flat track bully. Been down that route already. Still like Nunez but he hasn't done himself many favours in the Slot era.

Nunez had one good scoring season in Portugal where he overperformed his xG by an absolutely laughable amount (and even just by the eye test loads of his goals were either ridiculous screamers or truly terrible goalkeeping). Gyokeres is a very different prospect IMO.

[Manc]

Of those linked, Kudus makes the most sense.

[niko_cee]

Mohammed 'less than 50 career goals at 24' Kudus?

Yeah, no thanks.

Double no thanks for the £80m or whatever it is West Ham think he's worth.

My 'eye test' for Nunez was watching him against Liverpool in the Champions League and he was ridiculous. Reckon he's still got it in him to do that elsewhere at a step down in level, and he would probably have carried on on the same trajectory in Portugal despite reddit's views, but when you move to a club where expectations are at the toppermost top level, and you don't immediately succeed then things can get difficult. I think he has also been extremely unlucky at Liverpool, whether it's with hitting the post and bar and insane amount of times, or only finding his composure when he's fractionally offside, can't think of many that have bounced in off his arse or fallen to him on a plate.

[Bam]

Mohammed 'less than 50 career goals at 24' Kudus?

Yeah, no thanks.

Double no thanks for the £80m or whatever it is West Ham think he's worth.

Yeah that's him, please take him.

We will knock off £20m if you give us Nunez in return. :beer:

[Shindig]

Does anybody want a 'lightly injured' Callum Wilson?

[Kikó]

Or 'feeding kids' Marcus?

Marcus Rashford had a day off today so he returned to his old primary school, Button Lane, south Manchester, and handed out 420 Christmas presents to all the pupils. It was a long-planned event, eliciting delight from the children. One boy scarcely more than four years old, had a special message for the Manchester United striker. “Thank you for the food as well, Marcus.”

Rashford will leave United one day, possibly in the January window given the mood music inside Carrington, but his influence will remain with many children across the country following his ongoing work tackling child food poverty. “It was emotional to hear that, 100%,” Rashford told me of the four-year-old’s words of thanks. “I don’t like to see kids go through what I went through growing up so as many kids as I can help I will. That's why the programme needs to go on for as long as possible and it needs to keep improving.”

Wherever you stand on the Rashford debate, and he certainly generates headlines, he has been a force for good in so many children’s lives. One of the Button Lane teachers said that Rashford’s present will be the only one some of the 420 kids receive this Christmas. Another pointed through the window to the 3G five-a-side Rashford funded.

Some balance is required in the current Rashford debate. I was shown some of the DMs he receives on a regular basis and they are utterly despicable. There are rumours of a lack of professionalism. “I do feel misunderstood but I’m fine with it. I’m a very simple person. I love football. That’s been my life from the beginning.”

At 27, and having scored 138 goals in 426 appearances for United (and 17 in 60 for England), Rashford remains a huge talent, and will be in demand, possibly from Spain, when he leaves United. Yes, he could do more on the field, certainly out of possession. Yes, he was dropped from Sunday’s match-day squad against Manchester City by Ruben Amorim, who questioned his application in training. “It’s disheartening to be left out of a Derby,” Rashford replied, “but it’s happened, we won the game so let's move on. It’s disappointing but I’m also someone as I’ve got older I can deal with setbacks. What am I going to do about it? Sit there and cry about it. Or do my best the next time I’m available.”

He awoke this morning to headlines detailing United’s desire to sell him. I ask Rashford if he’s staying or going? “For me, personally, I think I'm ready for a new challenge and the next steps.” All of his words were prefaced with respect for the club which has been his home for almost 20 years. “When I leave it's going to be ‘no hard feelings’. You’re not going to have any negative comments from me about Manchester United. That’s me as a person.

"If I know that a situation is already bad I'm not going to make it worse. I've seen how other players have left in the past and I don't want to be that person. When I leave I'll make a statement and it will be from me.” From the heart as he’ll always be a Red? “Yes! 100%. 100%.”

He’s 27, peak time for a player, combining experience and athleticism, and he should be embedded in a team, creating an even bigger legacy. “I’m halfway through my career,” Rashford replies. “I don’t expect my peak to be now. I've had nine years so far in the Premier League and that’s taught me a lot, that’s helped me grow as a player and as a person. So I don't have any regrets from the last nine years. I won’t have any regrets going forward because I take things day by day and sometimes bad things happen, sometimes good things happen. I just try and keep a fine balance.” The best is yet to come? “100%. That's my mentality.”

He craves an England return and chance of making the 2026 World Cup. “That still excites me. It's playing for your country in the biggest competition in the world. I've had the chance to do it before (Russia 2018 and Qatar 2022) and it's an unbelievable experience. If I got the opportunity again, I'll try and grab it with both hands.”

Even though he has scored three times for Amorim, the new head coach’s 3-4-2-1 system does not appear to suit Rashford. The player himself makes a point about his adaptability, whether left wing, No 9 or No 10. “I have traits to play in all three positions. Some positions are more natural to me, some positions I have to train more and do a bit more tactical (work). The left side suits me the best.” But Amorim doesn’t play 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. He plays with two 10s. “The left 10 still suits me but you have to adapt your game. The biggest skill-set is adaptability. People might not see it but eventually they'll see I’ve played in plenty of different positions under all the managers.”

If his days under Amorim look numbered, Rashford will pursue his dreams elsewhere. The last time Rashford returned to Button Lane, he was asked by a young girl “what’s your biggest achievement?” He replied, “I haven't achieved it yet.”

That attitude echoes his love of “Relentless”, the book by the American mindset guru Tim Grover. Rashford’s not fallen out of love with football, he’s still aspiring to achieve things in the sport that’s his world. “Definitely, regardless of what gets said about me I have my own dreams. I’ve achieved parts of it. But I’m not at where I want to be. But the problem is when you get there, you create another thing. It’s a cycle that never stops. There’s not really an end point.”

Just the pursuit of excellence. Rashford needs to intensify that pursuit. He has the talent. And it looks like that talent will move away from #MUFC. He will still return to Button Lane. Marcus Rashford won’t forget where he came from. Nor will he forget United.

[Luke Emia]

Nunez would look brilliant at someone like West Ham. I actually can forgive his finishing it’s not like Firminio was prolific, it’s more the problem that his general play is not at the required level and he literally kills attacks dead at times with poor touches, passes and always being offside. That’s the eye test problem.

[Luke Emia]

That’s a proper puff piece on Rashford, who’s written that for him Sir Henry?

[randomlegend]

Almost sounds like there's already a transfer lined up.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Where would he go? He's one of those awkward players who wouldn't really improve a top, top team, but also would demand a huge salary.

[Manc]

Paris.

[randomlegend]

Where would he go? He's one of those awkward players who wouldn't really improve a top, top team, but also would demand a huge salary.

I mean he's clearly accepted he's leaving so presumably he's also accepted he'll have to take a pay cut.

[Bam]

Where would he go? He's one of those awkward players who wouldn't really improve a top, top team, but also would demand a huge salary.

Saudi?

[Kikó]

That’s a proper puff piece on Rashford, who’s written that for him Sir Henry?

Who else?

[Lewis]

If his days under Amorim look numbered, Rashford will pursue his dreams elsewhere. The last time Rashford returned to Button Lane, he was asked by a young girl “what’s your biggest achievement?” He replied, “I haven't achieved it yet.”

'There goes Marcus Rashford. I must remember to thank him.'

[niko_cee]

Arsenal should sign Sir Marcus.

Is this all window dressing for the fact that they are selling him because he's PURE PROFIT in FFP terms and they need to balance the books?

[SvN]

One of my few dad friends is an Arsenal fan and he's desperate for them to sign Rashford. He thinks he's exactly what they need.

[niko_cee]

Chelsea probably after him now Mudryk's spot in the squad has opened up.

[niko_cee]

I mean he's clearly accepted he's leaving so presumably he's also accepted he'll have to take a pay cut.

I'd forgotten he was on mental wages.

This brought a little cheer on a gloomy December morning:


Aside from Casemiro, Rashford is United's highest earner

:happycry:

[Luke Emia]

I suspect Rashford has a trumped up opinion of his value and who is going to be interested in him. At what he earns he really needs to be putting up Salah, Haaland or Kane type numbers in terms of goals and or assists. He just doesn't and never really has aside from a three month window in the 22/23 season. Maybe he and United will get lucky and PSG will take a punt on him and pay him what he earns at the minute but I can't see it, could be very hard to shift for any decent amount of money on United's behalf or they could end up supplementing his wages. You only have to look at how hard they have found it to shift someone like Maguire to see that a lot of these players don't want to earn less.

[Luke Emia]

Also anyone seen this video of Arteta in a press conference where he got asked about them falling away a bit this year and him only winning one trophy and he corrected the interviewer by saying no 'we've won three because we won the Charity Shield twice.' the fact he called it the Charity Shield when it hasn't been called that in over 20 years is probably the best bit.

[SvN]

We didn't struggle to shift Maguire, he wanted to stay and fight for his place, which he did successfully despite being initially binned off. In terms of Rashford, I think we'd be happy with a fee around the Sancho level (£25m) which should provide some leeway on wages.

[niko_cee]

Looks a pretty experimental side for Liverpool. Getting pretty thin at the back.

[Manc]

Quansah
Gomez
Norton
Trent

:happycry:

[Gray Fox]

It's apparently extremely wet on the south coast too. Slot ball may struggle.

Good to see VVD and Salah get a complete rest. There's a lot of just the way we play mate ahead this week.

[Baz]

Hopefully whoever Simon Rusk is still wants them to play like they’re purposely losing games.

[Luke Emia]

To say this game is lacking in quality so far would be an understatement.

Might bung the Arsenal game on to watch some long ball throw back to 90’s Wimbledon.

[Luke Emia]

Fuck me the shit cunt has just scored a one on one. Never thought I’d see the day.

[Spoonsky]

Out of character for him to take a touch there instead of smashing first-time it into the keeper's face at 90mph.

[phonics]

That was offside. But not in a way that should be cared about imo.

[phonics]

Btw not sure it needed mentioning but people who put Foden and Saka in the same bracket are fucking idiots.

[phonics]

This game is a perfect demonstration of our problems. We haven’t scored early and now we pick them off at will.

[phonics]

I’ll shut the fuck up for 10 minutes.

[Luke Emia]

Btw not sure it needed mentioning but people who put Foden and Saka in the same bracket are fucking idiots.

Aye just look at their achievements. An FA Cup and two Charity Shields, as well as two runners up medals in the league.

What’s Foden done?

[niko_cee]

Not sure why Elliot gets booked there.

[phonics]

Aye just look at their achievements. An FA Cup and two Charity Shields, as well as two runners up medals in the league.

What’s Foden done?

David May won more than Steve Gerrard. I can’t think of a team less able to use the ‘what did he win though’ than Liverpool.

[Luke Emia]

David May won more than Steve Gerrard.

He did, I’m not even Foden’s biggest fan but he’s been a big part of them winning the last 4 league titles and a quadruple in that time. You don’t play for a team as good as City for the past 6/7 years without being a very good player. He’s been terrible since the summer but let’s not rewrite history here.

Part of being a top-class player is putting your medals on the table and he’s got plenty.

[Luke Emia]

As for Gerrard not winning as much as he perhaps should have done part of that is him being ‘Stevie Me’ worked brilliantly in cup finals. Not so much over a league season.

[Spoonsky]

Yeah, not like Foden was Premier League Player of the Season or anything.

He did however seem to break at the last Euros, and has remained broken, so your take is getting more true by the day.

[Spoonsky]

Mamma mia.

[Shindig]

To be honest, you could apply that to a few of the City lads. Hell, the genesis of City's wobble can be traced back to the FA Cup final.

[igor_balis]

Caring about the league cup, bunch of losers

[phonics]

He did, I’m not even Foden’s biggest fan but he’s been a big part of them winning the last 4 league titles and a quadruple in that time. You don’t play for a team as good as City for the past 6/7 years without being a very good player. He’s been terrible since the summer but let’s not rewrite history here.

Part of being a top-class player is putting your medals on the table and he’s got plenty.

You don't think there's a massive correlation between his teams not playing well and him also not playing well? He is able to perform because they spend their entire time terrified of the rest of the team.

Giving him 4 league titles when he started a grand total of 20 games in 2 of those is kind as well.

[Lofty]

If Jesus could use this as a spring board to not be absolutely dogshit for the second half of the season that would be amazing.

[Luke Emia]

You don't think there's a massive correlation between his teams not playing well and him also not playing well? He is able to perform because they spend their entire time terrified of the rest of the team.

Giving him 4 league titles when he started a grand total of 20 games in 2 of those is kind as well.

Oh right then we may as well forget then that he was undeniably their best player last season and was probably the biggest reason his team won the league?

[niko_cee]

I can’t think of a team less able to use the ‘what did he win though’ than Liverpool.

You can't, really?

Not that I disagree about Saka. City should have bought him years ago.

[phonics]

Oh right then we may as well forget then that he was undeniably their best player last season and was probably the biggest reason his team won the league?

My main argument would be that he wasn't and every game where City would have dropped points if it wasn't for a players intervention it was Gvardiol and Rodri scoring the crucial goals and Gundogan the year previous.

He was in a team where they're having to concentrate on preventing multiple players before him and he could therefore be allowed to participate but when the games tough hes anonymous.

[phonics]

You can't, really?

Not that I disagree about Saka. City should have bought him years ago.

I mean in the sense that they've had massively great players where the fact that the team didn't hit an artificial milestone should be the definition of their greatness.

[phonics]

If Jesus could use this as a spring board to not be absolutely dogshit for the second half of the season that would be amazing.

The ulimate irony of Jesus and Zinchenko is that the introduction of them to the team made us so good that teams had to set-up to make them look atrocious.

[Gray Fox]

Jesus must be infuriating to watch. Seems like he can dribble past players at will, but can never seem to find that end product anywhere near consistently.

I see we managed to squeeze a win. Though the only thing I've seen from the game is a late Quansah challenge that would be 100% VAR'd into a red card in the barclays. Nunez may have scored but I'm told he was quite crap otherwise. Good to see Chiesa and Jota get more minutes but it sounded like the former looked like he is only just starting pre season, but was still unlucky not to score.

[Gray Fox]

Good to see Sir Jim identifying the real problem and cutting the stewards £100 bonus.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Time he was murdered really.

[niko_cee]

Please accept this Ineos handwash hamper as a token of our appreciation.

Looks like a potentially best ever line up for the League Cup semis. North London Derby, Liverpool v Newcastle ideally, otherwise I guess Liverpool v United and Arsenal v Newcastle.

[Kikó]

Good to see Sir Jim identifying the real problem and cutting the stewards £100 bonus.

Serves them right the jobsworth cunts.

[Shindig]

Good to see Sir Jim identifying the real problem and cutting the stewards £100 bonus.

He's making Mike Ashley look like a man with a conscience.

[niko_cee]

I know Onana's not great but why are United playing another mong in goal here?

[Kikó]

Rotation.

[-james-]

Surely the league cup was their best shot at an easy win this season?

Amorim's head in hands stare at the floor act is so uninspiring.

[Gray Fox]

Yes but lads, it's Spurs. They will fuck it up.

[Kikó]

I think the most important thing on O'Rims list is a good league finish. A run in the Europa and fa cup are also higher up the priorities than the carabao.

[niko_cee]

Bit unlucky that but Martinez is just awful.

Wasn't he meant to be good at some point?

[Magic]

Yes but lads, it's Spurs. They will fuck it up.

:harold:

[Guybrush]

Bit unlucky that but Martinez is just awful.

Wasn't he meant to be good at some point?

You mean 'The Butcher'?

[niko_cee]

There can't have been many more mismatched teams for a competition than Chelsea in the Conference League.

No United fans, I wasn't going down that avenue. Was rather hoping they might wear Spurs out a bit for the weekend, but they're just boosting their confidence the useless fucks.

[niko_cee]

:harold:

Here it comes.

:yn:

[Dquincy]

You mean 'The Butcher'?

Pat Butcher.

[niko_cee]

:lol:

Spursy.

[Shindig]

If only there was a way they could both lose. :D

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Spurs :D

[niko_cee]

Absolute death throes of just the way we play mate if they lose this.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

That save by Forster, lol.

[niko_cee]

They've got to just keep peppering him with shots.

Take note Arne. Tomorrow's session, shooting from range.

[Magic]

:harold:

:(

[Dquincy]

Absolute death throes of just the way we play mate if they lose this.
Hardly Ange's fault with those mistakes by the gk. Well, apart from selecting him to play that is.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

lol what the fuck?

[Lewis]

I mean he's shit but that's an obvious foul.

[niko_cee]

:face:

Neville regretting saying the United keeper will be happy he's not looking the biggest loser 5 minutes ago.

[Magic]

:(

:harold:

[niko_cee]

I mean he's shit but that's an obvious foul.

An obvious foul would be the attacker clattering into him. That's the sort of dicey shit goalkeepers routinely get, but it's hardly an actual foul.

[SvN]

No way is that a foul, he's just shit.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Spurs still trying to fuck it.

[Luke Emia]

Only watched the last 20 minutes but that was like watching two blind cripples trying to have a fight. Funny, but you know you shouldn’t really be enjoying it.

[Luke Emia]

They've got to just keep peppering him with shots.

Take note Arne. Tomorrow's session, shooting from range.

Could be a game for Nunez.

[niko_cee]

United were probably the better side. Unfortunately for them aside from Fernandes, Diallo and Yoro their players are dreadful.

[Gray Fox]

Spurs with the 2nd leg at Anfield is best possible result there I think.

[Shindig]

Arsenal over two legs is going to be iffy. Still, if we want to win this thing, we need to break the habit of a lifetime.

[randomlegend]

After a lot of years of our second keepers being surprisingly good, Bayindir is some comedown. He is absolutely awful.

Tottenham scoring 4 with an xG of less than 1 :D

[Ben]

Tottenham scoring 4 with an xG of less than 1 :D

Proof that xG is bullshit. I went to bed at 3-0 and Spurs were every value for that. How are two unchallenged goals inside 8 yards not two xG?

[Spikey M]

Yeah, that's just nonsense. That game was won by the least shit of 2 very shit goalkeepers, but let's not pretend Spurs weren't the better team.

[randomlegend]

Yeah, that's just nonsense. That game was won by the least shit of 2 very shit goalkeepers, but let's not pretend Spurs weren't the better team.

I mean I only watched the highlights but were they really:

https://i.imgur.com/2neYjTS.png

[-james-]

I have only seen the goals and I don't know how the xg model that is being quoted works, but if its goal is to be predictive of future chance generation then it should be obvious why the first one does not score low. It's a potshot that the goalkeeper spills into the path of the centre-forward. Not exactly a repeatable process. There are four defenders and the goalkeeper between Kulusevski and the net for the second, and I don't think the third is a straightforward finish either.


https://i.imgur.com/YSMCw9p.jpeg


Look at Solanke's PL career shot map (it could be anyone's) from around 16 yards out, green ones are goals. Some of them are headers but doesn't 20-30% look about right?

Scoring four goals in a game is an outlier (like scoring from a corner), and that's why the xg teams record when it happens is generally much lower.

[Jimmy Floyd]

And that's the real quiz.