Cash Only

[Boydy]

Seems like more and more places are going cash only due to "card processing fees" or whatever. Or maybe to help them dodge tax.

Seems like it's often cafes and stuff like that where people probably aren't spending that much but are still paying by card.

It's a pain in the hole, I can't be arsed starting to carry cash again.

Have you seen it much near you?

[niko_cee]

Yeah.

Barbers and kebab shops seem to be big fans of cash. Things like the former must be a goldmine for tax dodging seeing as there's no real input paper trail that could be held against you.

[Lewis]

It's probably easier to work on the assumption that any high street business run by non-white people is involved in some sort of money-laundering and/or immigration scam. How many phone cases are these Indian phone repair shops selling? Why do you never see anyone in these 'Turkish' barbers open seven days a week until nine o'clock? How do takeaways with six blokes behind the counter make enough to cover their out-goings?

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's generally working class establishments - greasy spoons, barbers and the like. Would say it's more of a hangover from the past than something new. Gradually they tick over into accepting cards but some hold out.

Curry houses absolutely adore being paid cash, I can say from experience having been offered a discount without asking for one.

[Yevrah]

There's an issue with corporate customers of legitimate businesses paying by card as the cost of the rewards the card companies offer are just passed onto the seller so the fees become crazy, but anyone in an independent establishment asking for £12.50 in cash in this day and age is up to something dodgy, with the dodging of tax the most likely reason.

[Jimmy Floyd]

While passing the mad conspiratorial types who protest about vaccines in Sutton High Street every weekend, I noticed that they also had a placard about how card payments were the government controlling you and cash must be protected. Didn't know that was one of their bugbears.

[Don]

The wealthy suited gammons, of course, being well above tax-dodging.

[Boydy]

It's generally working class establishments - greasy spoons, barbers and the like. Would say it's more of a hangover from the past than something new. Gradually they tick over into accepting cards but some hold out.

Curry houses absolutely adore being paid cash, I can say from experience having been offered a discount without asking for one.
Yeah, those sorts of places have probably always been cash only. I was talking more about a trend of places going from accepting card (back?) to cash only, really. I've seen quite a few stories about it in local news articles.

Chinese takeaways are another one.

[Yevrah]

Given most high street businesses must be doing nowhere near as much business as they were pre-pandemic it makes sense that they'd be trying to cream more and more off the top to stay afloat/make a decent living.

[Lewis]

It must feel amazing to tax dodge (I mean in the wealthy suited gammon - legal - sense). Imagine waking up every day knowing that you are depriving the state of your hard-earned money and there is nothing that they can do about it. It would be like walking on air.

[randomlegend]

The wealthy suited gammons, of course, being well above tax-dodging.

Errr everyone knows it's tax avoidance if you're rich and white, not tax evasion.

[Yevrah]

Errr everyone knows it's tax avoidance if you're rich and white, not tax evasion.

It's literally just if you're rich. The lie that this country is most divided when it comes to ethnicity is a con trick the Devil himself would have been proud of to land. For further nonsense see "the top 5% of earners" - I mean, how in the actual fuck is that a thing that people repeat as if it's some objectively defined start point for the definition of being rich?

The single biggest division bar none is rich vs. poor and the former are laughing their arses off at what they can get away with as a result.

[Pepe]

I don't think that my family ever paid a cent of income tax in Mexico.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Was going to say, not sure the big dogs in Nigeria are paying dutifully into the exchequer owing to their noble pigmentation.

[Pepe]

Just checked the statistics and according to the (quite excellent) Mexican Congress, only 16.18% of people and 27.5% of companies pay their taxes. :harold:

[Boydy]

It's literally just if you're rich. The lie that this country is most divided when it comes to ethnicity is a con trick the Devil himself would have been proud of to land. For further nonsense see "the top 5% of earners" - I mean, how in the actual fuck is that a thing that people repeat as if it's some objectively defined start point for the definition of being rich?

The single biggest division bar none is rich vs. poor and the former are laughing their arses off at what they can get away with as a result.
Welcome to the team, comrade Yevrah.

[-james-]

It's probably easier to work on the assumption that any high street business run by non-white people is involved in some sort of money-laundering and/or immigration scam. How many phone cases are these Indian phone repair shops selling? Why do you never see anyone in these 'Turkish' barbers open seven days a week until nine o'clock? How do takeaways with six blokes behind the counter make enough to cover their out-goings?

What about each UK city centre having about fifty vape shops and ten "American candy" shops? #somehowaboutbrownpeople

[Jimmy Floyd]

What about each UK city centre having about fifty vape shops and ten "American candy" shops? #somehowaboutbrownpeople

The candy shops are all Afghan people trafficking / drug smuggling fronts.

[Yevrah]

Welcome to the team, comrade Yevrah.

I mean, I still think capitalism is the best system we've come up with to date, but one has to call a spade a spade and some people are clearly taking the piss. The nonsense we get drawn into that deflect attention from the things that actually have the biggest impact on our lives is quite astonishing when you stop and think about it.

[Baz]

What’s similarly annoying is I went a big posh place (https://all.accor.com/hotel/B9E8/index.en.shtml?utm_campaign=seo+maps&utm_medium=seo+maps&utm_source=google+Maps) in Liverpool for a drink a few weeks ago and the card machine didn’t accept Apple Pay.

[Waffdon]

If a takeaway is accepting card payments it’s probably really shit and you should be going elsewhere

[Jimmy Floyd]

The candy shops are all Afghan people trafficking / drug smuggling fronts.

cf.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/search?q=american+candy

Every single one has Afghan or Pakistani-named company directors, they start up a company for each location and then dissolve again when it's time to pay business rates, hence they never actually pay them. It's a scheme run by a single set of wealthy Afghan money launderers. The stuff in the shop is mostly fake shit sold at a massive hike probably as a front for the drugs and trafficking money they are laundering.

[Ben]

If a takeaway is accepting card payments it’s probably really shit and you should be going elsewhere

Other issues aside, this is absolutely true. The cash only places are king round my way, all cuisines included.

[Giggles]

There's been a massive push away from cash here led by our betters and you'll be more likely to find a card only establishment than a cash only one. I'm happy to forego the convenience now and I use cash wherever I can.

[Yevrah]

I'm happy to forego the convenience now and I use cash wherever I can.

Why so?

[Kikó]

The illuminati.

[Giggles]

Why so?

Because the government are desperate for us all to use electronic payments. I have no idea why, nor do I care, but you know it won't be for good reasons.

I never mind anyone dodging a bit of tax either if they can.

[Yevrah]

Because the government are desperate for us all to use electronic payments.

Why do you think that is and why don't you want to?

[Jimmy Floyd]

If you get rid of cash, you get rid of crime. Many would find that hard.

[Ben]

You get rid of crime by the working class.

[Kikó]

Cash is also very often used by criminal gangs and organized crime.

[Yevrah]

I mean, I know why they want to do it I'm just curious as to Giggles line of thinking here and most intriguingly why he won't play ball. I stopped using cash in the pandemic and it'd be a genuine (first world) pain in the arse to go back to it now. He has an employer right, so he's not dodging tax.

[Lofty]

I think it is tax, just less obvious reasons than straight up salary. For instance apparently HMRC are now looking at people's earnings on ebay, Vinted, Patreon etc. People like Facebook Marketplace as you can use cash but if cash is phased out all these little transactions will probably fall under the scrutiny of the tax man. Sold your under the desk treadmill for £50, Boydy? Be needing VAT paid on that cheers.

[Yevrah]

It wouldn't be VAT as Boydy's not a business.

[Lofty]

Well whatever, income tax etc. If you make enough from selling through a dedicated ebay account could you be considered a business? I'm sure someone is dreaming that up in Whitehall.

[Boydy]

I've seen a lot of hysterics about that on twitter from people who don't seem to know anything about tax. Selling the odd item that you don't need any more isn't going to result in you paying tax. It's aimed at people who are actually running for profit businesses trhough those platforms.

You're not making any profit if you buy a coat for £50 and sell it a year later for £30.

[Yevrah]

Well whatever, income tax etc. If you make enough from selling through a dedicated ebay account could you be considered a business? I'm sure someone is dreaming that up in Whitehall.

Already in place, it was about £80k revenue per annum last time I checked although you can voluntarily VAT register below that threshold.

[Lofty]

What if I am selling high value items I don't need anymore, but I'm not a business? How does that line up?

[Yevrah]

I've seen a lot of hysterics about that on twitter from people who don't seem to know anything about tax. Selling the odd item that you don't need any more isn't going to result in you paying tax. It's aimed at people who are actually running for profit businesses trhough those platforms.

You're not making any profit if you buy a coat for £50 and sell it a year later for £30.

I'm going into actual accounting territory here (so calm yourself Jim) but my absolute favourite of all the dumb arse misunderstandings of how things work is the often repeated and (in this context) thoroughly misunderstood phrase of "you can write that off against tax though", as if the whole cost somehow magically disappears as a result when you buy something while running a business.

[Lofty]

https://youtu.be/hg1Uk60rBsc?si=ndbwQZu0XNzyYyOj

[Yevrah]

What if I am selling high value items I don't need anymore, but I'm not a business? How does that line up?

I'm not a tax expert by any stretch so take this with a pinch of salt, but if you're making a profit on an 'asset' I suspect you could be in capital gains territory, but even then there's a threshold and a whole load of exclusions as to what constitutes an asset for capital gains purposes. Shotguns, for example, are not subject to capital gains tax as they have moving parts and as a result an expected finite life.

[Jimmy Floyd]

You get rid of crime by the working class.

White collar crime can be detected, it's just whether you manage to or not, which is a different problem. Cash allows things to go undetected and unrecorded, which is ideal for crime.

[Ben]

For instance apparently HMRC are now looking at people's earnings on ebay, Vinted, Patreon etc.

Not entirely true. The rules are the same they've always been, they're just mandating these websites to file reports to HMRC now, so in theory it'll be easier to collar folk for selling goods wholesale but trying to masquerade as just selling their unwanted personal goods.

[Yevrah]

White collar crime can be detected, it's just whether you manage to or not, which is a different problem. Cash allows things to go undetected and unrecorded, which is ideal for crime.

It should also be added that the punishments for white collar crime are incredibly punitive, presumably because you're abusing a position of trust as well as thieving.

[Manc]

I've been working her/his majesty for three years now and the big takeway is that no fucker is paying tax.

[Lewis]

Internet Tax Man posted this graphic (https://twitter.com/DanNeidle/status/1742589380663894459) just now, and, without knowing for certain, I would have guessed it was something like that based on the logical explanation for why the government is apparently happy to wave a hundred billion quid away a year. I paid cash for a carpet remnant recently, and then paid the fitters in cash when they brought it round. Good for them. The government would only spend it on shit.

[Giggles]

I mean, I know why they want to do it I'm just curious as to Giggles line of thinking here and most intriguingly why he won't play ball. I stopped using cash in the pandemic and it'd be a genuine (first world) pain in the arse to go back to it now. He has an employer right, so he's not dodging tax.

I've no means of dodging tax, but I've no problem with lads doing a bit of it.

[Giggles]

You're all very obedient though, I'm surprised. Were you all not lambasting the Tesco clubcard recently yet you'll tap your phone for everything you buy?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Companies that want my data will get it anyway, and the government aren't capable of organising a conspiracy of any kind. In fact, no government is.

[Giggles]

I'm not claiming a big conspiracy, I just don't see why it's a massive no no to let Tesco know your address but not a bother every state body/financial institution/insurance company/etc know everything you buy and when you buy it.

[Ben]

The Tesco thing is irksome because they put a 25% markup on everything (it’s not a saving) if you don’t want to be part of their club. Thankfully the regulators are putting a stop to that bollocks.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm not claiming a big conspiracy, I just don't see why it's a massive no no to let Tesco know your address but not a bother every state body/financial institution/insurance company/etc know everything you buy and when you buy it.

What are they going to do, laugh at me? Sorry lads, I just thought the honey mustard with the salmon might work, I won't do it again.

[niko_cee]

Why was everyone pissing their pants about Tesco? Surely the trick with 'loyalty cards' is to have them all and rinse them of their 'offers'? If they end up with a probably confusing picture of your spending then they're welcome to it. I know Which get a bit sniffy about the true value of the offers, but I find they are generally as good as you can find anywhere else in the market if you know what you are doing/what the basic cost of whatever is across the board.

I support my local cash only kebab shop as they seem a decent bunch.

The barber has a ridiculously small dog called Jurgen as well.

[Giggles]

The Tesco thing is irksome because they put a 25% markup on everything (it’s not a saving) if you don’t want to be part of their club. Thankfully the regulators are putting a stop to that bollocks.

But what's the problem with being part of their club?

[Ben]

Why was everyone pissing their pants about Tesco? Surely the trick with 'loyalty cards' is to have them all and rinse them of their 'offers'? If they end up with a probably confusing picture of your spending then they're welcome to it. I know Which get a bit sniffy about the true value of the offers, but I find they are generally as good as you can find anywhere else in the market if you know what you are doing/what the basic cost of whatever is across the board.

I support my local cash only kebab shop as they seem a decent bunch.

The barber has a ridiculously small dog called Jurgen as well.

Like I noted above, it’s not “offers” you get, it’s just the regular price you can find in other shops sans the loyalty card. Then the markup for non-members is so blatant that it’s basically profiteering and it’s why the regulators have actually been forced into sorting it out.

[Ben]

But what's the problem with being part of their club?

There isn’t. But don’t be fooled into thinking you’re getting offers. It just gives you access to the fair price. Regulators wouldn’t need to be taking action if it actually gave you better deals than the opposition.

[Waffdon]

Like I noted above, it’s not “offers” you get, it’s just the regular price you can find in other shops sans the loyalty card. Then the markup for non-members is so blatant that it’s basically profiteering and it’s why the regulators have actually been forced into sorting it out.

You don’t get Pringles for £1.25 anywhere

[niko_cee]

Like I noted above, it’s not “offers” you get, it’s just the regular price you can find in other shops sans the loyalty card. Then the markup for non-members is so blatant that it’s basically profiteering and it’s why the regulators have actually been forced into sorting it out.

This is true as regards the mark-up prices, but much of the time the offers at least match and usually better what is available generally.

Example in my field of purchasing. Sainsbury's sometimes have Herta Hotdogs on their nectar offer for between 1.60 and 1.90. General price in the market for those is 2.70ish, although I think ASDA do them for £2 s standard. At the moment Waitrose have them on offer at £2. Lidl have their own for £2. When they are on nectar for 1.60/1.80 they are absolutely a good deal, so if you know what you are looking for it's not always a case of being duped by an inflated price. You just need to know the cost of things. You can always say cheaper options are out these but then you aren't comparing apples.

I always thought someone should have some sort of app where you could put your shopping list in and you could see all the best prices and I see AI might have taken up the challenge.

[niko_cee]

Tesco also did a solid clubcard deal on Steady Rolling Man by Vocation once. Well worth being a data slave.

[Giggles]

24 coke for €8. For that they can set up a live stream in my living room if they want.

[Boydy]

The objections I've seen (and agree with) to Clubcard prices etc is that supermarkets are the lynchpin of food supply and you shouldn't have to essentially join a members' club to access reasonable prices. Anyone should be able to walk into the shop and get the same prices.

It's not really about data collection. If you were arsed about that, you wouldn't have a smartphone or use the internet.

[niko_cee]

The objections I've seen (and agree with) to Clubcard prices etc is that supermarkets are the lynchpin of food supply and you shouldn't have to essentially join a members' club to access reasonable prices. Anyone should be able to walk into the shop and get the same prices.

It's not really about data collection. If you were arsed about that, you wouldn't have a smartphone or use the internet.

Agree this is a legit concern.

Was in the co-op the other day and some of the stuff I was getting appeared to be discounted and then I thought to myself that I bet these were member prices and I cursed the notion. Self-checkout put them through at those prices though so either they weren't, or their systems are shit, knowing the co-op probably the latter.

[Yevrah]

The Co-op, which is the most disgustingly priced supermarket going, definitely have some member's scheme.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm not sure Waitrose have any discounts. Head there for price equality.

A guy in our warehouse, who can't exactly be on big dough, was showing me his nectar and he has about a bajillion points and gets free stuff all the time. Shops for him, his wife and two kids once a week and this is apparently the path to nectar VIP territory.

[niko_cee]

They do.

They're also surprisingly competitive on fancier things [like big blocks of Parmesan for example].

The basic problem is you have to go to about 4 supermarkets to win your shopping from a price optimisation perspective.

Might soon be possible here though as there is a Waitrose and a Sainsbury's within spitting distance of each other and they're building an Aldi in between. :cab:

[Baz]

I'm not sure Waitrose have any discounts. Head there for price equality.

A guy in our warehouse, who can't exactly be on big dough, was showing me his nectar and he has about a bajillion points and gets free stuff all the time. Shops for him, his wife and two kids once a week and this is apparently the path to nectar VIP territory.

Daft to leave points on there. There’s quite a large community of bad internet people who check nectar card numbers for points and sell them.

[Bishop]

I love carrying cash. Much better than being tracked everywhere you go. Seems harmless now, but a traveler with a slightly disformed back I met in Brazil some years ago warned of what was coming down the line and it's not a nice picture.

[The Merse]

There is a legit reason to prefer cash as a small business. Costs roughly £200 a year per POS device, and then 1.5-3.5% per transaction.

Cash handling costs are increasing, but it’s nowhere near the same.

That said, I’d think the majority of business are either raving libertarians, dodging tax, paying folks without a right to work in the UK, or partaking in money laundering for sure.

[Yevrah]

I love carrying cash. Much better than being tracked everywhere you go. Seems harmless now, but a traveler with a slightly disformed back I met in Brazil some years ago warned of what was coming down the line and it's not a nice picture.

:D What did they think was coming? I mean, the only worry I'd have is if Britain is suddenly run by people with differing values to what's within the acceptable boundaries of society now, in which case I could be slightly fucked, but I suspect I'll be dead before that happens so I'm willing to take the risk not to have to piss about with cash.

[Bishop]

:D What did they think was coming? I mean, the only worry I'd have is if Britain is suddenly run by people with differing values to what's within the acceptable boundaries of society now, in which case I could be slightly fucked, but I suspect I'll be dead before that happens so I'm willing to take the risk not to have to piss about with cash.

I seem to recall it involved a man by the name of John Titor. Britain, unfortunately, is currently run by non British people. No matter what the passports say.

[Yevrah]

That's a blast from the past right there. The standard of conspiracy theories these days is so piss poor. They make the Duke of York ordering a hit on Diana look like an early Tarantino script.

[Bishop]

Well some 'conspiracy theories' have turned out to be true recently. Masks being completely useless, certain vaccines being more harmful than good. I think those of us who chose not to have the jab and chose not to wear a face nappy haven't yet had an apology for appalling way we were treated. It's all been brushed under the carpet. A few years ago people were being arrested for walking their dogs, among other things. Never forget. It just goes to show how easy it would be to completely subjugate an entire population. People are idiots, generally.

[Yevrah]

And yet it was all done without access to a list of people's credit card funded porn subscriptions.

[Bishop]

Indeed. Hopefully the mainstream media will continue to diminish to the point where people can no longer be hiveminded by propaganda. But I doubt it.

I don't know if you've ever heard of Operation Mockingbird? But I guarantee that still goes on.

[Spikey M]

Mainstream media is at it's weakest and people are more hiveminded that ever thanks to Social Media, algorithms and echo chambers.

Or, erm, micro-hiveminded, I guess. People just pick a tribe and spew its ridiculousness in all directions. Be it Feminists, Alpha's/Incels, LGBTQ, Vegan, Carnivore, religious, atheist, etc.

It was far more simple.when it was just left vs right.

[niko_cee]

John Titor.

:drool:

Are we still saying 'he' might have been right with his civil war in America thing, a bit like how those people who predict economic collapse every year eventually say I told you so when one comes along?

[SvN]

I was well behind John Titor being real circa 2003.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The yanks are still fighting the first civil war, the next one's not even a glimmer in the marksman's eye. Sorry JT.