Eurovision 2023

[Spikey M]

I remember when we were allowed to have fun and enjoy things. I miss that.

[-james-]

Iceland nearly sent a Palestinian bloke (and were favourite in the odds when it looked like that would happen). Now that would have been fun.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I remember when we were allowed to have fun and enjoy things. I miss that.

I'd say the main problem is that there just aren't enough platforms for one to express one's views, if one has any, on the Israel-Palestine conflict. Before that is solved I'm afraid fun will have to take a back seat.

I suppose this is another blow for the 'keep sport and politics separate' crowd, possibly the world's densest subset.

[niko_cee]

If most of the newly minted Eurovision fans from the last 20 years flounce off because Israel win then it'll probably be a net win for the competition and we can all go back to lolling at the subtitles from the non-English songs and stop being so fucking earnest about largely dreadful music.

I blame Australia.

Israel should have sent Dana International back to fully break minds.

[Adramelch]

If they do win, I suspect nothing of note will happen. There will be twitter outrage and the likes, but other than the next one not actually being hosted in Israel, I don't think much will change.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Live rioting :drool:

[Shindig]

More like live angry tweeting.

[Giggles]

Israel should have the Russia treatment anyway.

[Jimmy Floyd]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9rz5dp467lo

Heads have gone.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Rumours going round that he punched a producer or maybe an Israeli delegate or a woman (who might also be one of the previous two roles) because they made a joke about his dead parents.

The police are involved though.

[wullie]

Dutch guy's out for threatening a Swede. I maintain that 2017 was the last great year of this and we've been hurtling downhill since

[Spikey M]

If I watch tonight, am I guaranteed drama? And I mean PROPER drama. Not gay people angry that their favourite song didn't win drama.

[niko_cee]

Is Jarvis Cocker attending?

I'd lean towards disappointment on the potential drama front.

[Shindig]

If I watch tonight, am I guaranteed drama? And I mean PROPER drama. Not gay people angry that their favourite song didn't win drama.

At best you might get Just Stop Oil ruining someone's performance.

[niko_cee]

Hopefully they send another pair of feckless octogenarians.

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/sgrTTfSfIbnAdkLspIu.Cw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTE5MjA7aD0xMDgwO2NmPXdlYn A-/https://media.zenfs.com/en/cnn_articles_875/753b98a09c81cc71f62b83be1a8a6af8

[Baz]

If I watch tonight, am I guaranteed drama? And I mean PROPER drama. Not gay people angry that their favourite song didn't win drama.Definitely not.

Haven’t you heard? There’s snipers on the roof.

[niko_cee]

Might add to the drama. Some mook like Mika might turn up unannounced and get smoked on live tv. Guess it'll probably be on delay though.

[-james-]

https://i.imgur.com/Ghy8his.jpeg


This is where I'm at. Fuck knows about how Israel are going to do though really.

[Lofty]

Israel 3/1 now :drool:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Israel, Ukraine, Switzerland and France.

£2.5 E/W on all of them.

Edit: Ukraine is actually £5 E/W.

[-james-]

I've got about 10 grand in running on fuck knows what. Good luck to us.

[-james-]

Lol at that canned applause for Israel.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

A bit revealing from the Portuguese lass...

[Manc]

I've got about 10 grand in running on fuck knows what. Good luck to us.

Makes sense.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

She might be unforgettable but these lads are absolutely forgettable.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I wouldn't say no to this winning.

[wullie]

It never occurred to me Hooked On A Feeling was by Swedes despite the band being called Blue Swede.

[Manc]

This Nazi isn't running anywhere.

[Dan]

He's Rag Und Bone Mann

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

This Israeli song is absolute horseshit.

[Spikey M]

It really would be exceptionally funny if they won though.

A younger, more trollish Spikey would have chucked them a vote. Sadly the whole genocide thing puts a bit of a dampener on it.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Crowd are well up for the Spanish effort.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

That is INCREDIBLY Eurovision.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Estonia :cool:

[Spikey M]

Estonian Chaz and Dave.

[Dan]

Brian Posehn on violin for the Estonians.

[Dan]

They should just give Estonia a spot every year. They get it :cool:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Ireland bringing it too.

[7om]

What the fuck is this, Ireland? My ears are bleeding.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Latvia putting me to sleep.

[Spikey M]

Wrong said Fred can fuck off n'all.

[Dan]

Latvia never stood a chance after those last two

[wullie]

Greece not getting the memo and putting a proper good pop song in the competition. What the fuck

[niko_cee]

the whole genocide thing puts a bit of a dampener on it.

I read a cracking Israeli plant piece on how this is absolute horseshit along with a lot of the other prevailing language and it was probably more right than it was wrong.

Song was shit though so fuck having that win.

Spain winning with the audience

[Dan]

Yep, this is a UK entry alright.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Staging is quality but it's a horrendous song.

[Manc]

That was shit.

[Spikey M]

I read a cracking Israeli plant piece on how this is absolute horseshit along with a lot of the other prevailing language and it was probably more right than it was wrong.

Song was shit though so fuck having that win.

Spain winning with the audience

Setting up corridors for civilians to flee along, then bombing them is a war crime at a minimum and I don't object to the label genocide being used to describe it.

[Dan]

"We don't know how this will do". Yes we do, Graham. Shite.

[Spikey M]

The fuck is this?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Bring back Olly, this woman doing "comedy" is horrific.

[Dan]

There's a reason we get loads of Scandi noir on the telly & zero Scandi sitcoms.

[Dan]

Bit disappointed Norway aren't sending some Danish lads.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

They might have done better if they had.

[Pen]

Ireland are my favourites so far. Also enjoyed Estonia.

[Dan]

It's a bit janky & it's not gonna do well, but I kinda like it.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Italy have been killing it recently at Eurovision.

[Dan]

Probably helps that they sent someone who can sing live.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

"A flesh coloured patch in place"

What?

Edit: I see why now...

[Dan]

That Serbian one is the exact type of Eurovision song I couldn't give a shit about.

[Dan]

Why is he wearing a shirt with the Windows 95 logo on?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Finland :cool:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Why is he wearing a shirt with the Windows 95 logo on?

He's Windows95man.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Portugal's put her tits away :(

[Dan]

Armenia have the right idea. Any time you see a trumpet at Eurovision you're probably getting something fun.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Cyprus bringing a hottie, as per usual.

[Spikey M]

She's 17 lad. Eyes up.

[7om]

Finland for me, Clive.

[Spikey M]

I could have done without seeing up his skirt tbh.

[wullie]

Switzerland have sent a better version of the UK guy.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Switzerland want to win this.

[Manc]

Switzerland have sent a better version of the UK guy.

As did Lithuania.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Oh hello Slovenia.

[Spikey M]

I thought she was singing Zombie by The Cranberries for a minute there

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Couldn't give a shit what she's singing.

[Manc]

How on earth is this the fav?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I really like it.

Not as much as some of the others and I'm not sure why it's the clear favourite though.

[Dan]

This is Cha Cha Cha again, Rammstein influence & all.

[wullie]

I was ready to hate Croatia but I was won over about five seconds in.

[Adramelch]

It's an enjoyable song and perfectly on brand for Eurovision to be honest.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Not for me that song but I loved when he did that bit a cappella.

[Waffdon]

Stepping back from the mic there was Eurovision brilliance

[wullie]

I'm too conditioned to the wacky staging, I was waiting for something mad to happen all the way through the France one.

[niko_cee]

Graham shilling hard with the spiel about what that French dude did in the rehearsal

[Dan]

Croatia, Estonia, Ireland top three for me. Latvia, Israel & UK bottom three

[niko_cee]

I'm confused, did someone get lucky losered after Holland got biffed?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

My top 5 in no particular order.

Italy, Croatia, Switzerland, Ireland and Estonia.

[wullie]

I'd go Croatia, Switzerland, France, Greece, Italy

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

People actually go to see that bullshit janky looking CGI?

[wullie]

This Abba thing is creepy.

[7om]

In order:
Italy
Cyprus
Spain
Armenia
Greece

Ireland and UK bottom. Horrendous.

[Dan]

Just listened to the Dutch one & that probably would've pushed for the top three if he'd not fucked it all up.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Just listened to the Dutch one & that probably would've pushed for the top three if he'd not fucked it all up.

I found it too annoying.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Ukraine giving us nothing :harold:

[Serj]

Don't get the Italy love. For me it might be the worst effort of the night, and that takes some doing.

Croatia is fun but the chorus is underwhelming, but the rest should carry it to victory.

Anyone of Ireland, Armenia, Switzerland or Spain to score big please. France or Israel too.

[niko_cee]

I know it's a low bar in Eurovision terms but I have no idea what anyone likes about that Irish shite. Is everything 'identity' driven now?

[wullie]

Joanna Lumley adding a bit of class to counter Amanda Holden's I CAN'T SPEAK FOREIGN INNIT debacle from whichever year that was

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Switzerland are doing a banging job here.

I'm also surprised that Ireland are doing as well as they are with the juries.

[Lofty]

Malta sticking their head above the parapet with the first Israeli points there.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

The boos :drool:

[Spikey M]

0 points from Israel? Stop selling them child seeking missiles immediately. Cunts.

[wullie]

The good thing now about the UK doing shit is that with after Sam Ryder nearly won it we can't pretend it's politics.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Fucking Aussies can't get anything right.

[Dan]

Estonia the only country doing as badly as us :(

Never mind, they're worse now :D

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Shitting hell Ireland are doing gangbusters with the jury.

They have a genuine chance at winning.

[Lofty]

Olly getting beaten by the most reviled act in the competition's history would be quite something.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

In play bet on Ireland to win @ 9.5.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I'd love a jury to give Israel 12 points for the SEETHE from the crowd.

[Spikey M]

I'd love a jury to give Israel 12 points for the SEETHE from the crowd.

The Public vote is going to be interesting :drool:

[niko_cee]

How are Spain getting no points? Can we not just abolish the whole jury phase now?

[Spikey M]

How are France second? :cab:

[7om]

Yeah I feel like a boomer watching this. I don’t understand why some of this shite has been popular.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

How are France second? :cab:

He's got a great voice and juries will have lapped it up.

Strangely though he was losing his voice when they did the show used for jury votes and so he didn't do his whole vocal range during the show. So they heard a stripped back version.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

lol at the Dutchies pulling out their jury announcement.

[wullie]

I can't wait until that heart thing with the hands dies out.

[niko_cee]

How are France second? :cab:

He stopped singing and did a thinly veiled pro-palestine we all want peace and harmony speech in the jury show didn't he?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Portugal getting so many votes from the juries is mental though.

Absolutely mental.

[niko_cee]

Feel like they should leave the public vote open during the jury phase so you can try to offset them if you are so inclined.

[Dan]

They should probably just cut down the jury scoring to 6/3/1 for the top three & keep the full scoring for the public vote.

[niko_cee]

99 jury points for Germany. Wtf?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Estona were fucking robbed.

[niko_cee]

Nobody votes for this do they? Israeli botnet win incoming.

[Dan]

Estonia :(

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

UK :lol:

[Spikey M]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Waffdon]

:lol:

[Spikey M]

Bring on the seethe :drool:

[Dan]

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

[Spikey M]

Just need the Swiss cunt to get less than 10. :uhoh:

[Spikey M]

Bollocks. Shambles averted. :(

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Christ that's big for Ukraine, that might be enough.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

That could be enough for Croatia, that's a big number for the Swiss to overhaul.

[Spikey M]

It's not the drama I wanted, but Twitter is still in tears. That's the main thing.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

UK televote giving Israel 12 :harold:

[Adramelch]

The Greek casters celebrated that Switzerland win as if it was Greece's goal in the Euro final way back when. "True art won" or some such. A bit over the top one would say. :D

[Spikey M]

The UK Gammonati came through with a big 12 for Israel:drool:

[Serj]

How are Spain getting no points? Can we not just abolish the whole jury phase now?

They barely got any from the public either, shambles.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I've got about 10 grand in running on fuck knows what. Good luck to us.

How did you do?

Slight profit for me, would have been a bit more had I not gone in on Ireland in-play after the early jury votes.

[-james-]

Deserving winner. I need a lie down.

[-james-]

Did fine. The real money to be made on Eurovision is in running. Finland top 10 1.9 to lay probably the highlight of the offerings. :harold:

[niko_cee]

Olly Alexander seething the super gayest performance ever failed to hoover up that vote in the face of some twat in a ballet skirt and a feather boa coat.

[wullie]

Credit to Olly, they said nobody could combine the best of George Michael and Jamiroquai but he gave it a hell of a go.

[Jimmy Floyd]

BBC line on the Swiss winner:


The singer becomes the first non-binary artist to win Eurovision. Fittingly, they wrote the song to explain how they came to terms with their identity.

Why is that 'fitting'?

[Spikey M]

They're stunning and brave Jimmy. Stop asking questions.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cxx8z05058eo

Send a song that isn't shit?

[Shindig]

It's never been about songs, Mahow.

[Waffdon]

Well it is because that hippy nerd got 2nd the other year singing a ballad

[Shindig]

2nd is not winning.

[-james-]

I think recent Ukraine and Israel results are the only times that it hasn't been "about the song". There's a reason Italy, say, do well every single year.

[Waffdon]

2nd is not winning.

Only because Roman Abramovich invaded Ukraine

[Spikey M]

Well it is because that hippy nerd got 2nd the other year singing a ballad

The formula for success seems to be either: send a likeable person with a catchy song. Sam Ryder succeed on both fronts. Olly Alexander succeeds on neither.

OR

Get invaded.

[Lofty]

Wasn't the argument about us coming second that at the time we were Ukraine's biggest European ally?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Which falls flat on it's arse when you realise we did so well because the juries lapped it up (they weren't keen on Ukraine) because they aren't as politically swayed as the general mongos.

Plus the general mongos only had us in 5th in the televoting.

[-james-]

https://youtu.be/hAYXDoZzAyE


Had this stuck in my head since Saturday, along with a strange new found desire to visit Yerevan.

[Waffdon]

The French song is quality

[Pen]

https://youtu.be/hAYXDoZzAyE


Had this stuck in my head since Saturday, along with a strange new found desire to visit Yerevan.

Coincidentally the song and singers name backwards means "visit Yerevan" in Armenian.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It sounds like what you'd have to listen to for hours on end in the backing music if they became playable on Civ 6/7/8 or whatever they're up to now.

[Lofty]

Patiently waiting for 7.

[Yevrah]

BBC line on the Swiss winner:



Why is that 'fitting'?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/articles/cg39x2jg5pgo

In a similar vein I was struck by the conclusion to this article on what I find to be an interesting subject, which (despite having no evidence to support) decided to settle on it being a self-fulfilling prophecy based on harmful assumptions as to why black sprinters are so much better than white ones.


But the belief remains strong and perception is powerful - it can make or break champions.

That's settled that then.

[Jimmy Floyd]

No way these guys are accepting that sort of thing, once you accept one racial explanation then a whole can of worms is opened for others and the next thing you know you're strapping on your armband in the green room at Nuremberg. Or so they think.

I mean quite fucking obviously people of west African heritage sprint faster on average, and you know what? I bet they really have bigger dicks as well.

[Yevrah]

There's some astonishing avoiding of actual facts in there to maintain that position too. While they do mention the last white sprinter to win the 100m was back in 1980, they then completely avoid a stat far more telling than that - 189 men in history have run under 10 seconds and only two of them were white, 1.1%. I can't easily get the numbers but I guarantee that % only decreases when you count multiple sub-10 second times from the same athlete, but there they are, pointing to Richard Kilty (and his 60m World gold medal in 2014 no less) as some sort of counter-argument to the obvious conclusion.

They make a fair point that science can't yet prove why this is the case, but there's far too much in that article that suggests it's anything other than genetic make up, completely at odds with the numbers that strongly suggest it absolutely is.

[niko_cee]

Not that I necessarily disagree with you, but does that mean the British have some unique genetic disposition towards snooker aptitude also as yet undetected by science?

[Pepe]

That article seems to be arguing against some dumb strawman argument of "all blacks are good sprinters" which anyone with half a brain knows it is not true. Yet if you trace where most top sprinters and most top distance runners come from, you can see that there is some very strong correlation with specific locations/lineages.

I particularly like this quote:


"All that ACTN3 can tell us, it seems, is who will not be competing in the [Olympic] 100m final," wrote David Epstein, in his book The Sports Gene.

"And it is not even doing a very specific job of that, given that it is only ruling out about one billion of the seven billion people on earth."

The man wrote a whole book on the topic and came away with the conclusion that genes play a huge role in athletic ability. Yet they choose one quote that makes it seem like he thinks it is all nonsense. The book is worth reading, by the way.

[Pepe]

Not that I necessarily disagree with you, but does that mean the British have some unique genetic disposition towards snooker aptitude also as yet undetected by science?

How many people ever got to play snooker across the world compared to how many people ever tried to run fast across the world?

[Jimmy Floyd]

In certain parts of the Midlands, the only way to escape violent marauding gangs is to make a 35 break and then leave them in a tricky spot behind the yellow.

[Yevrah]

Not that I necessarily disagree with you, but does that mean the British have some unique genetic disposition towards snooker aptitude also as yet undetected by science?

That one is easy, bar China (who should really be better by now) no one plays it properly outside of England. And actually, you can see the decline in quality within these shores since the number of people with opportunities to play were vastly reduced post the smoking ban.

[niko_cee]

Isn't it much the same as sprinting though, an elite performance pathway yields world class results with the right input.

I guess the assumption is that everyone gets the chance to run fast regardless of background or status, but doesn't that equally miss the point that it is the bit that gets you to the last few percent that makes the difference? And is there more evidence of that being true for West African genetics in sprinting than it is for British Isles heritage in snooker? And yet one of those is patently absurd.

[Adramelch]

White Americans (for example) have the same exact access to the elite performance pathway that yields world class results, do they not?

[Yevrah]

Isn't it much the same as sprinting though, an elite performance pathway yields world class results with the right input.

I guess the assumption is that everyone gets the chance to run fast regardless of background or status, but doesn't that equally miss the point that it is the bit that gets you to the last few percent that makes the difference? And is there more evidence of that being true for West African genetics in sprinting than it is for British Isles heritage in snooker? And yet one of those is patently absurd.

I'm not sure I fully understand this post, so apologies in advance if I'm not answering your point(s), but.... The whole World runs the 100m, until China came along only Britain properly played snooker, which is the reason why they're comfortably the best. The equivalent in sprinting would be if everyone in Jamaica ran, but only three (white) people in England did it and in such a case there'd be absolutely no mystery over the disparity in times.

As it is, we're actively trying to be good at sprinting and I dare say we pump a shit load more money into it than Jamaica do, yet we're losing by about 6-10 metres (EDIT: to correct the maths fail). And again, our black sprinters absolutely shit all over our white ones.

[Yevrah]

In fact and on that last point, one of my best mates was obscenely good at sprinting as a kid. Would rock up for sports day in his Linford Christie vest and be laughed at until he ran, at which point he'd win by well over a second.

He was pretty good at county level and I think ran somewhere around the 11 second mark as a (professionally timed) PB at his running club. The reason he gave it up? When the age groups/scope of competition changed he found himself up against runners from London and he was nowhere near them. He is, needless to say, white.