The coming economic collapse

[Boydy]

I know we've had some discussion about this in the news of the day thread but it probably needs its own thread now.

Some of the latest news:

More than 70% of pubs do not expect to survive winter as energy costs soar (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/aug/23/pubs-winter-energy-costs-soar)

Small businesses warn they may not survive winter due to UK energy bills (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/aug/25/sleepless-nights-business-owners-energy-bills-quadruple)

Energy firms refusing to supply small UK businesses over bankruptcy fears (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/aug/25/big-energy-firms-refuse-to-supply-small-uk-businesses-bankruptcy-fears-contracts)

[Giggles]

Like everything nowadays it’s about 30% reality and 70% government fed to the media.

[Yevrah]

This really isn't this time Giggles, there's no energy price cap for businesses.

[Boydy]

I'm not sure why the government would feed stories like this to the media anyway, it just makes them look bad.

[Lewis]

I wonder if you went back to February and told various governments that this was going to happen whether they would still have thrown everything behind Ukraine, rather than getting them to negotiate some sort of sensible agreement. You would like to think that they knew it would, because I knew it would (https://www.thethirdhalf.co.uk/showthread.php?2988-Putin-On-the-Ritz&p=529560&viewfull=1#post529560), which means that they must have sat around and thought yeah Eastern Ukraine is worth a hundred billion pounds of taxpayers' money (five times what we spent in Afghanistan and Iraq). Is it?

[Lewis]

And then times that by all of the various measures the rest of Europe is going to have to take you're looking at, what, a trillion euros/pounds? We could have done far more lasting damage to Russia spending that on nuclear plants.

[Yevrah]

When the rats are picking over the carcasses in the streets we should have a pint to toast our latest E-Victory Lewis. If we can find a pub.

It's utter madness we're there (and not from just our own perspective) and the bunting that people were displaying at the time will prove with time to be an absolute embarrassment, if it hasn't already.

[phonics]

It’s nothing to do with Ukraine. It’s price gouging by all these companies. Having absolutely frauded their way through the zero percent interest era they’re now having to prove profit by ripping people off. It’s not a recession

[Yevrah]

Interesting take. I don't doubt there's some profiteering going on, but to say it's nothing to do with Ukraine...

[Lewis]

Russian gas supplies to Europe are down seventy-five per cent, and people are currently pricing in it going down a hundred per cent. Meanwhile, in America, which has its own gas (which it barely exports), prices have remained stable. Why are the American energy companies so benevolent and responsible compared to price-gouging European ones?

[Kikó]

Lewis being a Putin appeaser is great to see. Churchill will be looking up at him and shaking his head in disappointment.

Expect riots on the street unless something is done.

[SvN]

This really isn't this time Giggles, there's no energy price cap for businesses.
Indeed. I recently renewed my gas and electricity deals and my bills will be 6 times higher this year. Luckily, they're not THAT high to begin with, so it's not a massive problem for me. But I can see how somewhere like a restaurant, pub, etc would be on their knees.

[Ben]

Businesses are fucked but I'm absolutely convinced that we won't see the intended price rise come October. It's set up for the new PM to wade in and "save the day" by announcing a scheme similar to what Scottish Energy floated the other where the £100bn debt is piled on to future generations.

[Spikey M]

It’s nothing to do with Ukraine. It’s price gouging by all these companies. Having absolutely frauded their way through the zero percent interest era they’re now having to prove profit by ripping people off. It’s not a recession

Why are we no longer in the "zero percent interest era"?

Yes, there's some piss being taken, but let's not be silly here.

[Spikey M]

Lewis being a Putin appeaser is great to see. Churchill will be looking up at him and shaking his head in disappointment.

Expect riots on the street unless something is done.

I mean, he's not wrong, is he?

[Kikó]

Yes. Allowing Russia to invade an ally is non negotiable.

[mugbull]

Russian gas supplies to Europe are down seventy-five per cent, and people are currently pricing in it going down a hundred per cent. Meanwhile, in America, which has its own gas (which it barely exports), prices have remained stable. Why are the American energy companies so benevolent and responsible compared to price-gouging European ones?

Gas futures contracts at the hubs in the US have nearly tripled, and consumer “petrol” prices have doubled. Primarily due to the fact that we are now exporting a shitload to Europe

[Jimmy Floyd]

The can will be kicked down the road, or rather if it isn't, Truss won't even last until Christmas.

[Ben]

The can will be kicked down the road, or rather if it isn't, Truss won't even last until Christmas.

100% correct. Pensioners will be affected otherwise.

[Luke Emia]

The can will be kicked down the road, or rather if it isn't, Truss won't even last until Christmas.

I fucking hope so. Otherwise she is going to make us wish for the halcyon days of Theresa May.

[Boydy]

Indeed. I recently renewed my gas and electricity deals and my bills will be 6 times higher this year. Luckily, they're not THAT high to begin with, so it's not a massive problem for me. But I can see how somewhere like a restaurant, pub, etc would be on their knees.

Maybe you should let people work remotely after all. :baz:

[Luke Emia]

While I think about it as well with Truss the useless cunt going on about these tax cuts. I'd be happy be more than happy for them to stick another 1% on tax rates if that money was set aside for actual fucking infrastructure and not just pissed away on more shite(nuclear or making properties more efficient) and then reducing our actual dependence on gas rather than just bunging stop gap funding at paying the bills till forever. Yet no one seems be thinking about this it's not just this winter it's the however many more winters until Putin dies by the looks of things.

[Spikey M]

Yes. Allowing Russia to invade an ally is non negotiable.

But we have allowed it. They're sort of doing it right now, even if we are paying a tenner an hour for gas.

[Spikey M]

I fucking hope so. Otherwise she is going to make us wish for the halcyon days of Theresa May.

Theresa May was probably the most capable PM of this entire Tory run. She has the blood of UC on her hands, but compared to the damage Cameron and Johnson have done, that's nothing. Truss would be apocalyptic.

[Yevrah]

Yes. Allowing Russia to invade an ally is non negotiable.

Genuine lol when I got to this.

But anyway, so you’d have been up for a no fly zone then?

[Waffdon]

Yev, don’t be a Lewis pal

[Yevrah]

Theresa May was probably the most capable PM of this entire Tory run. She has the blood of UC on her hands, but compared to the damage Cameron and Johnson have done, that's nothing. Truss would be apocalyptic.

I'm intrigued to see what happens when civil unrest starts and she tells whoever to send the police in heavy handed, only to be told there aren't anywhere near enough.

It should be quite hard to properly fuck this country up for everyone as PM, but somehow, this is the level we're reaching now, if we're not already there.

[Yevrah]

Yev, don’t be a Lewis pal

Not new Waff, I've been questioning our involvement/how useless the Russians really are (while being lollled at on the latter) for ages. Who's laughing now, eh?

[niko_cee]

Civil unrest won't start, in any meaningful way.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Whether you're an emotionally-led thinker or Lewis von Metternich, I think pivoting away from any dependency on Russian energy is the obvious answer. In the short term, then yes you pay the price for previous dependency on Russian energy, but if you are a defender of western civilisation then this may be a price worth paying.

[7om]

Why is it that we (and others?) are so fucked politically? You look at what the Tory party has to offer and it beggars belief. Meanwhile Labour can’t put together a functional opposition to save their lives. How and why did it get this bad?

[Spikey M]

Why is it that we (and others?) are so fucked politically? You look at what the Tory party has to offer and it beggars belief. Meanwhile Labour can’t put together a functional opposition to save their lives. How and why did it get this bad?

Because only old people bother to vote and old people are cunts.

So the left is trapped between trying to placate the old cunts (Starmer) or lurching to the left in an attempt to actually be an opposition party, which just splinters the lefts voting power further.

Plus, the SNP, because the entirety of Scotland is made up of cunts. Which is impressive considering their low life expectancy.

[Kikó]

Genuine lol when I got to this.

But anyway, so you’d have been up for a no fly zone then?

The UK have acted boldly throughout with their commitment to Ukraine and one of the best things this government have actually achieved.

[Yevrah]

The UK have acted boldly throughout with their commitment to Ukraine and one of the best things this government have actually achieved.

Wanna have another go at answering the question?

[Kikó]

Why is it that we (and others?) are so fucked politically? You look at what the Tory party has to offer and it beggars belief. Meanwhile Labour can’t put together a functional opposition to save their lives. How and why did it get this bad?

I would say it's not as attractive to be a politician unless you're well off due to the scrutiny so people who are generally talented would rather take a job in the private sector without the scrutiny of government. I'd pay MPs more to attract the highest calibre of people.

[Kikó]

Wanna have another go at answering the question?

it's irrelevant

[Spikey M]

The UK have acted boldly throughout with their commitment to Ukraine and one of the best things this government have actually achieved.

I dunno, increasing poverty is pretty on brand.

[Yevrah]

it's irrelevant

Why is it irrelevant? You claimed allowing Russia to invade an ally is non-negotiable, yet six months on they're still there and will be for years. We're allowing that to happen as we could stop it if we wanted to by imposing one, so presumably the whole thing is fairly negotiable and your stance is wafer thin.

[Yevrah]

Because only old people bother to vote and old people are cunts.

Old people are pragmatic and they can smell bullshit from a mile, which is why they did vote for New Labour and wouldn't touch Corbyn with a bargepole.

We have a Tory government at the moment, because unbelievably they were still the best option at the last election, not because old people (which all of us are hurtling towards being I should point out) are cunts.

It's a lazy argument that misses the real reason why we're in this mess, which is the left need to be better, much better.

[Kikó]

I think it's boring to go over an argument we had six months ago.

The UK have provided aid, training, weapons and support to Ukraine which was the most NATO were willing to commit to.

[Lewis]

The Conservative Party have wasted most of their twelve years in government (even on a party political level), but most of the current problems are thirty years in the making. I've read a lot about the Abingdon Reservoir (proposed Abingdon Reservoir) in the past few months and fuck me if that isn't a microcosm of everything.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The reason politics is fucked is that consumer capitalism has comprehensively won all the 20th century arguments, but has also splintered society to the point where it isn't cohesive and so voters are just diverse groups of special interests, screaming into the void.

[Yevrah]

The Conservative Party have wasted most of their twelve years in government (even on a party political level), but most of the current problems are thirty years in the making. I've read a lot about the Abingdon Reservoir (proposed Abingdon Reservoir) in the past few months and fuck me if that isn't a microcosm of everything.

Got a TLDR?

[Boydy]

The reason we're fucked is the asset-stripping of the country that's gone on for about thirty-forty years.

[Lewis]

Got a TLDR?

The Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thames_Water_Abingdon_Reservoir) carries a brief overview, but doesn't mention that they had been planning it since 1991/92. It's mind-boggling that strategic national infrastructure can be blocked by locals with no stake in anything. There is something to be said for a mass pipe-replacing campaign across the South East purely on the grounds that the upheaval (which is presumably why it doesn't happen) will blight these people's lives for decades, but we still need more reservoirs.

[Waffdon]

Because only old people bother to vote and old people are cunts.

So the left is trapped between trying to placate the old cunts (Starmer) or lurching to the left in an attempt to actually be an opposition party, which just splinters the lefts voting power further.

Plus, the SNP, because the entirety of Scotland is made up of cunts. Which is impressive considering their low life expectancy.

Blame Jim Murphy. Cunt.

Also hark at the Essex man piping up. They even brought a tv show out to show how retarded your lot are

[Spikey M]

Blame Jim Murphy. Cunt.

Also hark at the Essex man piping up. They even brought a tv show out to show how retarded your lot are

To show how retarded Brentwood is.

Most of Essex is nothing like that. It's far too busy deteriorating into a East London themed slum. Still retarded, but a very different type of retarded. If you're looking for a proud Essex man, Ye hae git th' wrong man.

[7om]

I’m a bit slow on the uptake, Lewis, so how does that Abingdon Reservoir stuff tie in with our current social / political situation?

[Lofty]

Lads, we just need Liz Truss's New Deal.

[Magic]

FYI I'll be voting indepence next year. You English fucks have lost your minds.

[Waffdon]

My man.

[Lewis]

I’m a bit slow on the uptake, Lewis, so how does that Abingdon Reservoir stuff tie in with our current social / political situation?

It's symptomatic of how we've got here. Nobody can build anything because of local objections and short-termism (usually driven by local objections), and then we cry about lack of investment. Investment in what? And any nationalised utilities would face the exact same problems. Why is the government building reservoirs when the NHS...

Another classic example we had recently was this (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-56115137), where enough offshore wind power for four million homes was delayed by twelve months because one man complained that a substation (not the actual wind farm) would ruin his views of empty fields in one very specific direction.


Speaking to BBC Look East after the ruling, Mr Pearce accepted it was not an "outright" victory, but added "it's a very good start though". He said: "For the people of Norfolk who will be potentially adversely impacted by multiple cable corridors then it really is a very good start, that finally they have a voice and somebody is recognising these national infrastructure projects will have an impact on ordinary people's lives."

He said it was "absolutely fantastic we are progressing towards a zero-carbon economy", but that "the impact in just developing the onshore infrastructure will be devastating, not only on the climate... but on the local environment".

That last line sums these people up. Are we in a 'climate emergency' or not? If we are, then why does stuff like this even get heard? If we're not, then fine, let's just start burning coal again.

[Giggles]

Nimbyism.

[Lofty]

It still blows my mind water is free in Scotland.

[Magic]

It still blows my mind water is free in Scotland.

And it tastes glorious too.

[Spikey M]

It still blows my mind water is free in Scotland.

Everything is free in Scotland and the cunts still moan.

[Ben]

It still blows my mind water is free in Scotland.

As it should be.

[Giggles]

Whatever it was about it, the water charges were the only thing here in the last half century that made people stop being lazy moany pricks and do something about it.

[Lewis]

This (https://www.scottishwater.co.uk/Your-Home/Your-Charges/Your-Charges-2022-2023/Unmetered-Charges-2022-2023) doesn't look very free. In fact, I think I would be paying more there than I do here. I bet they have a great record on investment and pollution though.

[Waffdon]

I was away to say. It’s apart of your Council Tax payments. Even if you’re entitled to full Council Tax Reduction/Benefits you still have to pay for water and sewerage unless you have your own system in place.

Worth it though. It is indeed glorious water.

[Lofty]

Truss promising to increase UK defence spending from 2% to 3% will apparently require an extra £150 billion. Good news about the chocolate oranges.

[Lewis]

It floated between four and five through the seventies and eighties, so let's at least aim for a healthy four. Two submarines on patrol at all times (back to fifteen minutes warning as well), with a fifth and sixth based in Australia. More planes. More tanks. Bring the WE177 back.

[Shindig]

I want a go on Trident.