Champions League final & Junternationals

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's the variety that keeps it interesting. A lot of football's popularity is in its accessibility, i.e. it isn't basketball where you have to be tall, rugby where you have to be massive, or horse racing where you have to be tiny. There's a place on a football field for big lumps, tiny shrimps, fat bastards, lanky fucks, technicians, physical players, speedsters, and plenty of average joes too.

I've lolled at Lukaku as much as the next man this season, but he's struggling for selection at Chelsea even against Timo Werner because the latter, a gibbering mess with the ball at his feet, is better at running hard without the ball. It's a bit of a shame, really.

[niko_cee]

Isn't Lukaku just as much of a jibbering mess with the ball at his feet?

Pretty sure everything in that post above was the clarion call of rugby union [room for all sorts!] until it was realised that being a 12 foot wide Pacific Islander [as well as being really good at rugby] is an advantage.

[Ian]

The reason the back end of tournaments is the best is because that's when for all but the most organised / mentally strong teams shit starts to get out of their control a bit more and when interesting things happen.

The rest of it is increasingly the good trams running / boring inferior opposition to death with synchronised cardio.

[Don]

UAE-Australia in a one game playoff in Qatar tonight at 7pm for right to lose to Peru in the inter-continental WC qualifier next week. 2 proper shite sides.

[niko_cee]

I thought VAR was meant to be more efficiently administered on the continent?

Maguire needs taking out back.

[Ben]

The loyalty to Maguire must be wearing out now surely.

[niko_cee]

Cupboard's pretty bare though.

Horrid half and you just know Waistcoat is thinking this is absolutely fine.

[Manc]

Declan Rice is a monster.

[niko_cee]

The commentators wittering on about how this is England's best XI Foden aside is genuinely terrifying.

And he's not really a massive step up. Just no goals at all in almost the entire team.

[Dave.]

The commentators wittering on about how this is England's best XI Foden aside is genuinely terrifying.

And he's not really a massive step up. Just no goals at all in almost the entire team.

Yet we made the semi finals and the final of the last two major tournaments.

[Boydy]

What was that freekick nonsense from England there. Just fucking hit it from where it is.

[niko_cee]

Yet we made the semi finals and the final of the last two major tournaments.

I know.

It defies logic. South Americans to clean up in Qatar?

[niko_cee]

I thought Germany's goal looked like it took a deflection, but it didn't look like it on that replay. Lol if it didn't.

[niko_cee]

Haha, quality.

Wasn't Kane offside?

[phonics]

That’s such a shit penalty. They need a year off to seriously revise the rules. The games fundamentally broken.

[Dave.]

Haha, quality.

Wasn't Kane offside?

I don't know but it was never a penalty. Same with the one Hungary got against us.

[Waffdon]

I can’t believe they gave that having just seen it. He’s about 2 yards off side :D

[niko_cee]

It did look like it didn't it? Like, in every phase of the attack he was beyond the last man. Must have come off some consenting German boots in the mix.

[Waffdon]

Yeah, it hit a German so must have been a deliberate play. As you were.

Not that Kane was even touched

[Manc]

Pickford's distribution is absolutely horrendous.

[Don]

That was dogshit from England, godbless that nonsense pen for ensuring no late Southgate departure pre-WC. Flick doing bits with the Germans though given how far off their main XI that was. Musiala looks the biz, the lanky twat.

Anyway, load of fans arrested for making nazi salutes and other hooliganism. Here comes the fucking boring waistcoat wanker lecture.

[Lewis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH0gl6OXXt4

How it's done.

[John Arne]

Some scumbag defender for Binh Thuan decided to have a dig at the referee after he got a yellow card.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKd5W1nTkTQ&ab_channel=B%C3%B3ng%C4%90%C3%A1TV

[Jimmy Floyd]

He should never play football again. Stuff like that really winds me up. Ref handled it really well.

[John Arne]

Yeah, it's completely braindead. He'll never play again. I was slightly disappointed with his teammates too - none of them held him back and looked to protect the ref.

[Giggles]

Starting clubless players :uhoh:

[Danny]

Worked for Wales in 2016.

[Giggles]

It wasn’t Cyrus Christie though.


Even worse is Knight coming in but it not being for Hendrick.

[Giggles]

Whatever about the quality of them, and it’s not high, we need to start playing with a striker no matter what else needs to be reshuffled.

[Giggles]

Kelleher :face:

[niko_cee]

Funny how all of the CCTV footage of those rampaging football hooligans at the Champions League Final has been deleted.

[Gray Fox]

You don't mean to tell me it wasn't those dastardly "ticketless reds" all along?!

[Giggles]

I expect a full justice campaign and a tribute in about 50 weeks time.

[Gray Fox]

The T-shirts are already printed.

[-james-]

Greece absolutely donning Nations League League C Division 2. :cool:

[Spav]

UAE-Australia in a one game playoff in Qatar tonight at 7pm for right to lose to Peru in the inter-continental WC qualifier next week. 2 proper shite sides.

It seems that Australia is the lesser shite of the two sides then, following their 2-1 win over UAE. I have to say that the current Socceroos team engenders the least confidence that I've had in our national team for several years now.

[Boydy]

Spav!

[Spav]

Spav!

:hat:

[Boydy]

How've you been?

[Spav]

How've you been?

Everything is going good, thanks for asking, considering I'm now 61 years of age. Keeping myself fit and active, but I've taken early retirement from work and now devote myself fully to looking after my long-suffering wife and my 16yo son in our household. :D

I found my login and password for here whilst doing a cleanout and I couldn't resist logging back in again.

[Boydy]

Good to hear. More time to post now then too. :nodd:

[Ian]

Early retirement. :drool:

[Spikey M]

Looks like you're not the old git anymore Yevrah

[-james-]

The thought that Spav keeps his TTH login details written down on a piece of paper somewhere is very pleasing.

[Kikó]

Fucking Spav returning. We're going to have to reclaim the early payout for the first death sweepstake.

[Shindig]

So .... is that Derby dead in the water or what?

[Giggles]

Sounds like they're fucked. Real shame, outside Shelbournes promotion they brought me the most value in enjoyment in soccer in the past year.

[Don]

Rangnick juggernaut continues.

[Giggles]

That’s either Browne at right wing back in a 5 or McClean left back in a 4. Either way, Scotland are going to coast this.


1535634206675587072

[Manc]

Ireland's second goal is a thing of beauty.

[Manc]

The third is even better. Obafemi having a stormer.

[Waffdon]

This is proper end of days stuff. He should be sacked

[Giggles]

Never expected Scotland to be that bad.

[Waffdon]

Always expect the worst. That Ireland team is genuinely not even Championship Level.

[Giggles]

Weren’t your lot meant to be world beaters at this stage? Even losing to Ukraine the other night was hardly expected given the levels of hype.

[Waffdon]

We’d won 7 in a row in qualification to finish 2nd and looked genuinely decent but we are negative as fuck and don’t have a goalscorer. Been brutal since then though starting with throwing 2 friendlies against a reserve Poland team to draw and a 2 goal lead to Austria to draw. Then the last 2 games topped it off.

Ireland scored more today than they have in their last 10 Nation League games apparently. Jesus

[Manc]

That Italian side is pure legs.

[ScousePig]

A former regular poster being 61 is a bit mind-blowing. A bit like the Sunderland fans in their early twenties who are too young to remember Quinn and Phillips.

[niko_cee]

Didn't realise Italy had missed 2 world cups on the trot. Jesus

[Giggles]

Especially to win the Euros in between.

[niko_cee]

Yeah, feast or famine. Win the world cup, then group exit twice and fail to qualify twice. Sandwich a Euros win at the low point.

Or, to put it another way, they've been toilet for the best part of 20 years but somehow still managed to sneak beating England in the final of the Euros at Wembley into the mix. :moop:

Also beat England in one of those world cup group exits.

'Tammy' too honest there. Should have just taken the contact and not tried to shoot. Stonewall pen. What the fuck is Donnurumma playing at? Has he gone to shit mentally since joining PSG?

Mount really needs to add goals to his game.

[Gray Fox]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12632078/cristiano-ronaldo-us-judge-dismisses-rape-lawsuit-against-manchester-united-forward

Definitely (legally)not a rapist.

[phonics]

Where are all the racist children like Hungary had?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Those chances seem to fall to Sterling all the time and he fucks it up more often than not.

[niko_cee]

It doesn't really matter who they fall to, there isn't an England player other than Kane who you would trust to not meff a chance.

[phonics]

This England team are dreadfully boring. Like Mikel Arteta is seeing this team as an absolute masterclass.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

That was so fucking dull.

Even Man United play better stuff than that.

[Manc]

Miserable. Channel 4 must be gutted.

[Yevrah]

Remember that time a visionary said we should get rid of Southgate whether he wins the finals of the euros or not?

[SvN]

You really are insufferable sometimes Yev.

[Shindig]

Aye, all we did was draw with Germany and Italy. Clearly end of days stuff.

[Yevrah]

You really are insufferable sometimes Yev.

Not a massive fan of you either, but hey ho.

[Yevrah]

Aye, all we did was draw with Germany and Italy. Clearly end of days stuff.

It's boring football, something which has characterised his tenure. When the easy draws drop off, what is there left?

[Spikey M]

Don't forget his disastrous performance at the Euro's, where we only reached the final.

[Kikó]

I've always said he should be judged by the nations league.

[Shindig]

It's boring football, something which has characterised his tenure. When the easy draws drop off, what is there left?

Penalties.

[Giggles]

Surely to the teams up in the section England are in, these are nothing more than glorified friendlies anyway.

Even in B none of the teams seem to treat them that seriously and they’re the teams actually need the national league to qualify for things.

[Yevrah]

Don't forget his disastrous performance at the Euro's, where we only reached the final.

Now you mention it, it should never be forgotten that wasted the best chance we'll ever get to win an international tournament.

[Yevrah]

Surely to the teams up in the section England are in, these are nothing more than glorified friendlies anyway.

They are, but in which case there's even less excuse for playing like that over three games.

[Spikey M]

This is Lunacy Yev.

[Shindig]

£50 says if England win a tournament, Yev's first post will be:


We should've done this years ago.

[Yevrah]

This is Lunacy Yev.

People aren't ready yet, it's fine. You can call the football shit and the draws easy, but I get it, a WC semi-final and the final of the Euros makes him untouchable.

[Yevrah]

£50 says if England win a tournament, Yev's first post will be:

Once I've finished celebrating it'll be well done Sir Gareth. It's cute that people think we will though.

[Shindig]

I said 'if'. Winning a tournament's really fucking hard.

[Kikó]

The best England team and manager we've had in a lifetime and we can't enjoy it because we didn't win a few games in the nation league. That told you so will be mega satisfying though.

[niko_cee]

These nations league games have been terrible across the board, for almost everyone it seems. No doubt that is to do with where they fall in the calendar and everyone being knackered/checked out.

That said, Southgate's obsession with defensive football, with a team with very few decent defenders and a bombscare goalkeeper is irritating. It's not like he's pissing a golden generation up the wall [perhaps some golden draws] but if he was a better coach you feels he might have been able to get more out of this group than the grinding shite that's been served up for much of the time. He's a front office guy, in the parlance of American Sports, doesn't seem to have much actual coaching nous/ability. I accept this is the intended practice and can be successful in International football [see results to date] but it doesn't mean you have to like it, and the ends justifies the means only works if you get to where you want to be in the end.

[Yevrah]

I said 'if'. Winning a tournament's really fucking hard.

Well that's the expectation now though, right? If it isn't, what's the point and why is he still in the job? He gets to keep it for life because of capitalising on the easiest run you'll ever get to a WC semi-final and then the final of the Euros? Despite bottling both games thereafter.

[Yevrah]

Niko gets it, the rest of you are blinded by the 4th and 2nd place finishes.

[Lewis]

I think we more than likely run into France in the quarter-final, assuming we both win our groups, so that might be the end of him.

[Shindig]

Sacking a manager after a quarter final doesn't sound like something we'd do.

[Yevrah]

If he were to get to the quarter-finals, only to lose to France, I reckon he'd keep his job. Even crashing out in the first round, which even I'd be very surprised by, probably wouldn't be enough to oust him.

[John Arne]

I'm Team Yev.

6yrs in and Southgate is still playing a right back at left back, playing 8 defenders against Hungary and picking a defender who has been genuinely terrible for about 18 months.

I'm pretty sure a different manager would have achieved the similar results in the prior euros and WC with the squad available. Perhaps.

[Lewis]

If he were to get to the quarter-finals, only to lose to France, I reckon he'd keep his job. Even crashing out in the first round, which even I'd be very surprised by, probably wouldn't be enough to oust him.

That is a point. In fact, even an early exit could probably be spun as a blip caused by weird scheduling.

[-james-]

I think we more than likely run into France in the quarter-final, assuming we both win our groups, so that might be the end of him.

France are going out in the groups.

[Giggles]

:D

[Kikó]

I think fans would ask for Southgate to go if they failed to get out of the groups. I think the general feeling that England are too negative will come out if we play badly and get knocked out. Sir Gareth has the leeway when we're getting to the back end of tournaments but he's going to get a hiding if we go out because we didn't start Jack Grealish.

[-james-]

Well, probably not, but man can dream. How do Southgate outters feel about Deschamps still being in charge?

[Spikey M]

Well that's the expectation now though, right? If it isn't, what's the point and why is he still in the job? He gets to keep it for life because of capitalising on the easiest run you'll ever get to a WC semi-final and then the final of the Euros? Despite bottling both games thereafter.

No. The expectation is that we compete for the trophy. It's not as if we are miles ahead of the rest of the pack.

[Manc]

International football is a very different animal. Southgate understands this more than most.

[Don]

Plus the social justice victories.

[randomlegend]

Southgate is fucking wank. That team got to the finishes they did in tournaments in spite of him, not because of him. There's bags of talent in the England squad at the moment and a proper manager would have us winning playing great football, not grinding out 1-0 losses to fucking Hungary with 8 defenders playing the most turgid football you've ever clapped eyes on.

[niko_cee]

Well, probably not, but man can dream. How do Southgate outters feel about Deschamps still being in charge?

I've always hated Deschamps through all aspects of his career. Absolute fraud. Cantona was right about him.

[-james-]

Southgate is fucking wank. That team got to the finishes they did in tournaments in spite of him, not because of him. There's bags of talent in the England squad at the moment and a proper manager would have us winning playing great football, not grinding out 1-0 losses to fucking Hungary with 8 defenders playing the most turgid football you've ever clapped eyes on.

The way I see it is that there's likely an appointable manager out there who could play a more attractive style than Southgate and get equivalent results, but what are the chances of absolutely nailing that appointment? I reckon they're extremely slim.

He's got the players on board and it clearly works at tournaments. Why would he go five up front or whatever in a meaningless game when there are only a handful left until the only ones that matter? These are basically pre-season friendlies.

[Shindig]

And, as ropey as the defence is, we didn't concede until the semi finals last year. In 2018, we had one clean sheet all tournament. That's progress.

[Waffdon]

He makes Mourinho looks like Bielsa but then that’s what happens at International football. It’s mostly always turgid affairs.

[Don]

If only there was a young English managerial prospect with a widely respected reputation for playing succesful attacking football.

[-james-]

If only there was a young English managerial prospect with a widely respected reputation for playing succesful attacking football.

If you sack Southgate and Potter says no then you're left with what, Lampard or Gerrard?

[Spikey M]

I don't think Gary Neville is the answer.

[Don]

All joking aside I'm not even sure Potter's heroics would translate without daily coaching that comes with club football but fuck me I'd be gagging to try it (or indeed anything else) than having to deal with the shit being served up by Waistcoat. The final run obviously gets him the time but it's purely vibe driven and hopefully the return to classic failure England will come in November.

[Shindig]

Potter's probably next in line. I also reckon, once Southgate is done, he never takes another job.

[Spikey M]

He will. He has West Brom written all over him.

[niko_cee]

He'll be in at United when the Dutch experiment is floundering on its arse in January, thus setting them back another decade. :yn:

[mo]

Michael Carrick current favourite for the Swindon manager's job. This means little, not just bookie's odds are largely pointless, but there have been several different odds on favourites in the two weeks this has rumbled on. Is he rated as a coach by Utd fans?

[Offshore Toon]

Southgate should be kicked out the country for his actions. Total bottler in the 90s, so he worked his arse off with the FA in hope to make amends, then when the moment came he blagged the job. I bet deep down he still knew he was a bottling twat, but desperately hoped it wasn't true. Absolute geek.

[Don]

1535720660919631872

[randomlegend]

The way I see it is that there's likely an appointable manager out there who could play a more attractive style than Southgate and get equivalent results, but what are the chances of absolutely nailing that appointment? I reckon they're extremely slim.

He's got the players on board and it clearly works at tournaments. Why would he go five up front or whatever in a meaningless game when there are only a handful left until the only ones that matter? These are basically pre-season friendlies.

There's a big spectrum between 5 up front and 8 in defence.

[Kikó]

Any England manager could do what Southgate has done which is why it's been done over and over again since 1966.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

He's King Gammon.

[Lofty]

Has Socceraid always been mixed or is this a new development?

[Don]

So fucking painful to watch some Croatian bum destroying our national team. If we don't fire him before November I'm gonna lose my shit (and retire on the winnings of England -5 on opening day of WC).

[Shindig]

Aussies v the Paddington's on the BBC website.

Hosted in Qatar in front of a half empty stadium.

[Spikey M]

Have you seen any of the slaves from Myanmar and Napal that built it?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Aaron Mooy. I'd forgotten about him. Going to guess he plays in Bundesliga 2.

Shanghai Port. What a life that must be. Wish he would sort out the shipping container backlogs.

[Shindig]

They're probably putting up and living in the Fan Tents.

73 minutes gone, no shots on target. If only there was a way they could both lose?

[Don]

Aus-Peru qualifier on BBC and heading into drama. Just turning it on myself.

[Giggles]

What’s the NZ - Costa Rica game for then? Are they semi finals?

[niko_cee]

Wasn't it meant to be impossible to play football in Qatar in June?

[Shindig]

What’s the NZ - Costa Rica game for then? Are they semi finals?

Nah, play-offs so the winners go to Qatar.

Aussies pulling the Krul gambit.

[Manc]

Australia have subbed in a keeper. :uhoh:

[niko_cee]

Weren't Peru quality at the last World Cup?

[Shindig]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_World_Cup_official_mascots

I want someone without any prior knowledge to draw them based on those descriptions.

[niko_cee]

The Peru 'keeper not speaking/understanding whatever the ref is saying bodes well.

[Shindig]

Redmayne's line dancing. :D They're going home.

Aye, that worked perfectly. Shame they won't get to try that again in the winter.

[Manc]

Nice one, Shitdig.

[Ben]

That keeper. :D

[Shindig]

The one where he twirled on the line was my favourite.

[Don]

Asia > *

[Spav]

Another World Cup where the Aussies qualify via a penalty shootout, it wasn't pretty for 120 minutes, but I'll take that result any day. :jayjay:

[Jimmy Floyd]

I was thinking during the game that the life of an Aussie football fan must be a highly stressful one, permanently (for the last 40+ years) on a do-or-die intercontinental playoff footing. Never better than that, never worse.

[Spav]

Honestly, it should never have got as far as a playoff. The Aussies should have qualified from their Asian group as they had done in their three previous World Cup campaigns, but they suddenly lost the plot halfway through the final group stage and fell into the double playoff saga that we've just gone through.

We'll be lucky if we pick up a point in Qatar, but at least we're going there and it keeps me personally invested in the group stages at least.

[Shindig]

Costa Rica's struck early but the Kiwis have come roaring back. Good match.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

England in danger of getting RELEGATED.

[niko_cee]

I like Bowen as a player but I'm not convinced he's an international quality forward.

This has been piss poor so far.

[Yevrah]

Oh Jesus, is this wank home and away? Fuck me.

[Yevrah]

I like Bowen as a player but I'm not convinced he's an international quality forward.

This has been piss poor so far.

I'm guessing the problem now comes that as Sir Gareth has made us an established TOP international side, teams, particularly those who aren't established TOP international sides, are going to be even more inclined to sit back against us, thus rendering the back 8 even more of a waste of time.

[Shindig]

Oof. New Zealand look done here. The ref's got the calls right but they'll still feel persecuted after this.

[CJay]

New Zealand heads have gone.

Meanwhile Nathan Collins Beckenbauring one in for us against Ukraine. 😎

[Ben]

Oh dear.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

:drool:

[Waffdon]

:lol:

Hope he stays.

[Dave.]

Ramsdale at fault again, should be saving that. Hopefully, this nonsensical talk of dropping Pickford will now stop.

[Shindig]

Whoop. Best group of players in a generation, lads.

[Kikó]

Enough is enough. Mancini out.

[randomlegend]

Yevrah

It's been an honour serving on team Southgateisshit since day 1 with you brother.

[Waffdon]

Ramsdale at fault again, should be saving that. Hopefully, this nonsensical talk of dropping Pickford will now stop.

He is fucking dreadful. What was he even attempting to do :D

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

That dive from Kane :lol:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

This is glorious.

[CJay]

England don’t look coached.

[Kikó]

England have started with their second choice keeper, some dude I've never heard off at centre back and a combination of Bowen, Gallagher and Phillips in midfield. It's not entirely surprising it's pretty bad.

[niko_cee]

England don’t look coached.

Understatement of the century.

Really good off the field though. We don't says wags, it partners and families ok?

This has been gloriously shit, but all it will serve to do is reinforce in Waistcoat's mind the need for his '1st XI' and all out defence.

[Shindig]

This has all the look of a burst bubble. Mainly because, in the early part of Southgate's reign, the new faces seemed to relish the call up.

[CJay]

That Stones red card. 😂😂

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

That second yellow card decision is almost as bad as the England performance.

[niko_cee]

Players are tired, this isn't the best team, thank god the Qataris bribed their way to hosting and this isn't happening in an actual tournament etc.

[niko_cee]

Also, someone decent needs to sign Bellingham and coach him properly. Every now and then you can see he has tremendous ability/potential, but I doubt the Dortmund conveyor belt is really going to improve him in any way other than pitting him against inferior/suicidal opposition for stat padding/fee boosting.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

:drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:

[Waffdon]

England have started with their second choice keeper, some dude I've never heard off at centre back and a combination of Bowen, Gallagher and Phillips in midfield. It's not entirely surprising it's pretty bad.

You liking Southgate is very odd.

[niko_cee]

Given the cost of loving crisis and all we should probably be made to play more games behind closed doors to protect people from wasting their money coming to watch.

[Kikó]

You liking Southgate is very odd.

I don't like him that much but I think the criticism is overblown. He's the first manager who's made me enjoy watching England and think it's a bit much to go to bin him after a few nation league games (which we don't care about).

[Giggles]

What’s gone on there? Was that at Wembley?

[niko_cee]

Molineux or however you spell Wolves ground.

[Yevrah]

Yevrah

It's been an honour serving on team Southgateisshit since day 1 with you brother.

Welcome brother, proud to have you.

I mean, I don't think he's shit, he's just nowhere near as good as people seem to think or a semi-final and a final (on face value) would have you believe. He's benefitted from being our manager at a time when international football has rarely been weaker and the two easiest draws I've seen us get in my lifetime (by some margin) and lost in exactly the same way in the second one as he did in the first.

I've seen nothing to suggest he's able to kick on and either make us good enough defensively to hang onto a lead against a genuinely good side or potent enough up front to not have to need to. As I'm sure you all know I gave up on us ever winning anything in my lifetime after the debacle in 2010, but as we're here now and the field is a pretty weak one we really should be doing better at seizing the opportunity. Put simply, I expect more/or to at least be entertained - if Sir Gareth can deliver that all power to him, but if he can't we need to have another go at finding someone who can. We shouldn't be accepting the semi and the final on face value and believing everything is great as a result. Scratch the surface, or watch the turgid shite that's been served up four games running over the last week and it clearly isn't.

[Waffdon]

I don't like him that much but I think the criticism is overblown. He's the first manager who's made me enjoy watching England and think it's a bit much to go to bin him after a few nation league games (which we don't care about).

It’s the enjoyable aspect I don’t get. He’s more negative than Mourinho ever was at Man Utd.

Going to 5 atb to try get back into the game was genius

[Kikó]

You don't understand how much England have disappointed at every tournament I've watched. The results he's achieved is a million miles away from what was before.

[Yevrah]

It’s the enjoyable aspect I don’t get. He’s more negative than Mourinho ever was at Man Utd.

Going to 5 atb to try get back into the game was genius

For me he's sort of moulded the best bits of Sven (realising our limitations and setting our stall out to cover said limitations) and then combined it with the worst crab like passing aspects of a Guardiola side. It's a take and with a fair bit of luck we'd have probably reached a World Cup final and won a European Championships. Problem is, relying on luck to make that extra push is not a sound strategy, one needs to grab these chances by the scruff of the neck, they don't come along very often and to get two in a row is remarkable.

[Luke Emia]

He’s like OGB in that he has a very obvious ceiling in what he does and no amount of hoping is going to make him better than that.

What he has done well is to get England to perform slightly better than par and string together 2 decent looking performances in tournaments which hasn’t been done in my lifetime.

The other side is he consistently shits the bed whenever he comes up against anyone semi-decent and it’s so dull to watch. Even that Scotland game last year was awful and let’s face facts they are crap. I have no real interest in England and his style of football definitely isn’t drawing me in.

[Luke Emia]

For me he's sort of moulded the best bits of Sven (realising our limitations and setting our stall out to cover said limitations) and then combined it with the worst crab like passing aspects of a Guardiola side. It's a take and with a fair bit of luck we'd have probably reached a World Cup final and won a European Championships. Problem is, relying on luck to make that extra push is not a sound strategy, one needs to grab these chances by the scruff of the neck, they don't come along very often and to get two in a row is remarkable.

The other side of that is France won a World Cup by playing exactly like that.

[Yevrah]

See I'd say Sven did string two decent performances together in 2002 and 2004, the results weren't quite as good but then we ran into Brazil in the first and Rooney got injured when we were on top against Portugal in the second.

[Yevrah]

The other side of that is France won a World Cup by playing exactly like that.

What, the last one? Incomparable as they have far better individuals able to turn a game. If we had their players and conveyor belt I'd probably sign Sir Gareth up for life.

[Manc]

Kalvin Phillips should never play for England again.

[Yevrah]

Kalvin Phillips should never play for England again.

No problem with a shit kicker in the line up but to play as many as Sir Gareth does is taking the fucking piss.

[Yevrah]

And that must be one of our worst results ever, whether it came in a glorified friendly or not.

[Waffdon]

Kalvin Phillips should never play for England again.

Football is really fucked when you’re getting to finals with a double pivot of Rice/Phillips in front of a back 5.

[Lewis]

Woah it was 4-0? I wasn't paying enough attention to England to say I said he was shit on Day One, but I definitely said it during the World Cup, so I'm claiming original status as well.

[Offshore Toon]

Anybody that backed both Bruce and Southgate should really retire from football discussion.

[Shindig]

I will not be silenced. :D

Although, with Southgate, I've just been flummoxed by it all. We've had good managers (of which, I don't really think Southgate is one) and good players before, but I've never seen it come together like the last four years.

[-james-]

What, the last one? Incomparable as they have far better individuals able to turn a game. If we had their players and conveyor belt I'd probably sign Sir Gareth up for life.

Their front four in the final was Matuidi, Griezmann, Mbappe and Giroud. I don't really see how you can reconcile France good and England bad at the same time.

There definitely aren't many international sides with as many game winning players as England have at the moment.

[Yevrah]

Their front four in the final was Matuidi, Griezmann, Mbappe and Giroud. I don't really see how you can reconcile France good and England bad at the same time.

There definitely aren't many international sides with as many game winning players as England have at the moment.

We're not really going to compare the merits of any of that England side to Mbappe in that tournament, are we?

But either way, I broadly agree with your second sentence, which is further fuel on the Southgate bonfire.

[Yevrah]

Anyway, point was that safety first, second and third football might be good enough to win something if you have Mbappe and maybe one or two of the others, but we don't, so it won't be and we'll be even further away if we get a draw reminiscent of an actual international tournament again.

[Lewis]

Half the team picks itself, he picks the other half wrong, and then he stands there and does nothing. The fact that we have Quality in depth for the first time ever is the point.

[wullie]

I get the enjoyment aspect of Southgate, with Eriksson we had a nice run of quarter finals and what could have been which was an embarrassment of riches compared to the turgid 10 years that followed. Seeing us now reach a World Cup semi and an actual major final has been great fun particularly with a knockout win over Germany and winning a WC shootout, even if we've not been playing the best football or had the luck of the draw or anything that may be in spite of or because of him.

There's been some shit along the way like losing 0-0 to Scotland and both the Croatia and Italy defeats following the same pattern of us scoring early and then absolutely shitting it that I'm sure another manager would have been better equipped to deal with, but I've seen so much rubbish with England I'm happy for him to continue until his resignation the day after our second round exit in November.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Southgate is a good strategist but a dire tactician. The opposite of, say, Mourinho.

I can't see him ever leaving, though. The FA is one of the most conservative sporting bodies in the world and he fits them perfectly. Also got the M&S housewives' favourite brand going which they will adore.

[Spikey M]

I think far too much is being read into this. It's a bullshit friendly tournament that alot of players have been very vocal about not wanting. They want to fuck off on holiday and who can blame them really?

[Kikó]

That's how I would have took it but it seems that people actually hate Gaz.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's the same old thing, if you play cautious football you absolutely have to win. People will give you a few bad results if you're going for broke.

[randomlegend]

Playing with 8 defenders given the squad available to him is laughable. I honestly think that team got to those tournament finishes on the back of their own quality and in spite of his awful tactics rather than because of them. Under a manager who could just pick the right team we'd have won those Euros.

Facht.

[Kikó]

Yep, like all the other times.

[Kikó]

Where's James with the stats?

[Jimmy Floyd]

The last 16 win over Germany was a decent win. His other knockout games have all been either scraped through, against weak opposition, or both.

[randomlegend]

Yep, like all the other times.

We currently have the best squad (or to probably be more accurate, the best suited squad to actually forming a functioning team) that we've had in my lifetime by some way.

Before there's always been a gaping issue somewhere e.g. the left wing + non-functioning central midfield problems which plagued the GOLDEN GENERATION.

The closest we have to that currently is Spackford.

[Spoonsky]

Who would actually be your starting attacking players?

I feel like the HYPE which automatically surrounds any decent English player might not help in this case. I’m not sure the squad is quite as strong as is sometimes claimed.

[Kikó]

You could argue England are weak in centre mid as well with the wide players being good but inconsistent/out of form (thinking Grealish, Sancho, Saka and Rashford). In my ongoing phase of being Gareth Southgate's number one fan, you could argue it's *him* that has made the team become a functioning one.

[Spoonsky]

Yeah. Even Foden is brilliant at being a cog in the Man City machine, but does it translate to a totally different team and set up?

Kane as well, he’s no longer exactly a classic center forward is he? He needs that Son figure and England don’t really seem to have anyone who would come close to fitting that bill at the moment.

If you need stepovers from the left wing, though…

[randomlegend]

Foden is class, there's no "cog in the machine" about it.

GK: Pickford/Ramsdale
RB: James/TAA
CB: Stones/White
CB: Tomori/Maguire
LB: Chilwell/Shaw
CM: Rice/Phillips
CM: Bellingham/Ward-Prowse/Henderson
RW: Saka/Bowen
AM: Foden/Maddison/Mount
LW: Grealish/Sterling/Rashford/Sancho
CF: Kane/DCL/Abraham

That is a quality first 11 + depth, and it's not some FUT bollocks with no balance. Right wing and GK are probably the biggest weaknesses but you'll always have the odd position that's not absolute top class in international football.

You don't need to play "5 up front", but playing 8 defensive players when you've got the likes of Foden, Grealish, Sterling, Kana, Sancho, Saka, Rashford (if he remembers how to play football) as your forward options is a war crime.

[Shindig]

You've got the pace in those five to make it work on the counter, though. Against a side that sits back, you're knackered.

[Don]

Being high off the fumes of EPL hype distorts things. CM and CB are tragic for Brexitball so 3 at the back makes great sense and the only player with any reliable attacking output is Kane. Being near losers is as good as it'll get for you boys so Kiko is right.

[-james-]

Foden is class, there's no "cog in the machine" about it.

GK: Pickford/Ramsdale
RB: James/TAA
CB: Stones/White
CB: Tomori/Maguire
LB: Chilwell/Shaw
CM: Rice/Phillips
CM: Bellingham/Ward-Prowse/Henderson
RW: Saka/Bowen
AM: Foden/Maddison/Mount
LW: Grealish/Sterling/Rashford/Sancho
CF: Kane/DCL/Abraham

That is a quality first 11 + depth, and it's not some FUT bollocks with no balance. Right wing and GK are probably the biggest weaknesses but you'll always have the odd position that's not absolute top class in international football.

You don't need to play "5 up front", but playing 8 defensive players when you've got the likes of Foden, Grealish, Sterling, Kana, Sancho, Saka, Rashford (if he remembers how to play football) as your forward options is a war crime.

When did England even field 8 defensive players at the Euros? It was pretty much always a "front four" with Luke Shaw doing a load of BOMBING ON iirc.

I didn't watch any of it but hasn't it just been a Liverpool 4-3-3 in the games this month?

[randomlegend]

When did England even field 8 defensive players at the Euros? It was pretty much always a "front four" with Luke Shaw doing a load of BOMBING ON iirc.

I didn't watch any of it but hasn't it just been a Liverpool 4-3-3 in the games this month?

Against Italy and Germany (the only top teams we actually played in the tournament) it was 5 at the back with two holding midfielders (+ the keeper). Even against the weaker teams where we went four at the back, it was a fully defensive pivot of Rice and Phillips sitting in front of the defence which is incredibly pedestrian.

I have also not watched the Nations League but it looks like we were phoning it in with the selections. My opinion of Southgate is not based of the Nations League.

[niko_cee]

Mason Mount as one of the 'attacking three players' is definitely a defensive option.

I'm a bit with Spoons though, there is no mythical Rivaldo-Ronaldo-Ronaldinho forward line to be had here, but what would be nice is 4 defenders, 1 defensive midfielder [Rice] and then 5 more progressive players [even if one of them is a Henderson-type as an '8'] rather than 5 at the back with Rice and Phillips shielding them and Mason Mount as an 'attacker'. That's 8 defenders. Our centre-halves are just so bad though. Is there any prospect of just playing James as one in a four? Left-back is also a bit of a concern.

I try to avoid watching City like the plague so don't know much about Foden but I've always been a bit underwhelmed by him in terms of actual end product.

It doesn't help that Sancho, who was once a bit of a shining light, is seemingly well out of the frame now.

[randomlegend]

Sancho is class and will be an England mainstay if/when United sort their shit out.

[Boydy]

I'd go:

GK: Pickford
RB: James
CB: Stones
CB: Maguire
LB: Chilwell
CM: Rice
CM: Henderson
RW: Alexander-Arnold
AM: Grealish
LW: Sterling
CF: Kane

[Kikó]

Being high off the fumes of EPL hype distorts things. CM and CB are tragic for Brexitball so 3 at the back makes great sense and the only player with any reliable attacking output is Kane. Being near losers is as good as it'll get for you boys so Kiko is right.

What the fuck has just happened.

[Waffdon]

When did England even field 8 defensive players at the Euros? It was pretty much always a "front four" with Luke Shaw doing a load of BOMBING ON iirc.

I didn't watch any of it but hasn't it just been a Liverpool 4-3-3 in the games this month?

I’m pretty sure the only game it was a front 4 was against Ukraine. Mount in a front 3 with Rice/Phillips behind him is definitely very defensively orientated.

[niko_cee]

On our defensive woes I'd completely forgotten about the existence of Ben White. Is he injured or something at the moment?

I'm sure I've said it before, but in lieu of Potter replacing Gareth Southgate Badger they could at least go with some Brighton, or ex-Brighton defenders. Dunk and Webster are just flat out better than modern day Harry Maguire.

[Baz]

Is this the June football thread? Fixtures are out:

https://resources.premierleague.com/photos/2022/06/16/37fc1a4c-e939-424e-8e10-73ef533342ef/PL2223-FIXTURE-RELEASE-Editorial.png?width=930&height=620

https://www.premierleague.com/news/2646764

[Shindig]

16 fixtures before the World Cup. Amazing what you can do when you bin off the international breaks. Pray for the legitimacy of the League Cup, though. And any Championship/League One/Two sides that have key players at the tournament.

[Baz]

16 fixtures before the World Cup. Amazing what you can do when you bin off the international breaks. Pray for the legitimacy of the League Cup, though. And any Championship/League One/Two sides that have key players at the tournament.The Championships having a break isn’t it?

[Shindig]

Apparently so. Their fixtures arrive next week.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Nottm Forest should not have an apostrophe. If they keep that up it's going to annoy me big time. Using 'Spurs' instead of 'Tottenham' is bad enough.

[SvN]

It's a shame they didn't use Notts Forest and really cause a shitstorm.

[Spoonsky]

Nottm Forest should not have an apostrophe. If they keep that up it's going to annoy me big time. Using 'Spurs' instead of 'Tottenham' is bad enough.

Tot’n’m.

[Shindig]

Forest probably have my favourite club nickname. Tricky Trees makes them sound so mischievous.

[Manc]

Southampton 7/2 for relegation. Pile on.

[Giggles]

The Spanish league are really taking this Mbappe thing hard.

[niko_cee]

Whilst it's quite fun lolling at Tebas and co, they probably do have a point, particularly in the case of PSG, who appear to operate outwith any sort of financial constraint. At least City go to a lot of effort to make it look like they're on the level.

[Ian]

They may have a point but it's entirely undercut by a) the fact that they're being enormous crybabies about it and b) they only care because they're not the ones with the money.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The sense I've got on all my trips to Spain over the years is that Real Madrid and Barcelona are, culturally, far bigger than any English club or possibly any other club in Europe in relation to their wider city/country. Real Madrid and Spain itself - partly thanks to the Generalisimo but also just in general - are far more intertwined on every level than, say, Manchester United and Britain. When you go to Barcelona it almost feels like the city is a theme park, themed around the football club. As such (and with the money and power that results) they have both always been able to sign more or less any player they liked, when they liked, and I think this new era of not being able to do so is really deeply distressing for them in a way that it wouldn't be for an English club. They have to sign the most famous players or they don't understand why they exist anymore.

I never had a clue why Eden Hazard left Chelsea for Real Madrid - he was playing well, seemed happy, and could have got the same or better money - but I think I know now. They're like a whirlpool that sucks everything in. You can't resist them - until, with an aircraft carrier full of money, you can.

[Shindig]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQh6-zdaNf4

Fair play to him. He honed it down to an art over many years.

[Manc]

England's U19 Euro Championship kicking off on the iplayer.

[Manc]

Chukwuemeka looks a player. Born in Austria to Nigerian parents. Top poaching.

[phonics]

I saw the tweet ‘Breaking: Ryan Giggs resigns as Wales manager’ and got very confused.

[Lewis]

Might as well go out on a high.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

He's done so well recently with the team.

[CJay]

Is he the biggest ex-footballer to have really messed up his post-playing career? He'll likely never work in football again.

[Raoul Duke]

Le Tissier has gone full retard

[niko_cee]

Aye, but he'd already had his post-football career [and done surprisingly well out of it] and whilst he's a bit of a moron he hasn't actually managed to do anything crimous.

There must be others who have got into some bad shit though. Main one that springs to mind is [ex-England cricketer] Chris Lewis and his drug dealing.

[Boydy]

Le Tissier has gone full retard
What's he done now?

[Waffdon]

I seen he was on a podcast the other day explaining how he was match fixing back in the day.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I remember him years ago saying they used to have bets on time of the first throw in, is it that again or something else?

[niko_cee]

Yeah, there always used to be some comedy kick offs back when that was a thing. Oops, overhit that one a bit.

[Raoul Duke]

What's he done now?

https://twitter.com/FootballCliches/status/1539241647422197760?s=20&t=t5LRifDQOYNu_MqDEq0lVA

[Danny]

I remember him years ago saying they used to have bets on time of the first throw in, is it that again or something else?

He retold the story on a podcast not long back. IIRC he said he tried it (the famous one), fucked it and never did it again. Though I am not sure I believe him entirely.

[Baz]

Neil Shipperly ruined it for him, he said, but managed to kick it out just in time to break even.

[Manc]

Chukwuemeka looks a player. Born in Austria to Nigerian parents. Top poaching.

This fella is going to be special.

[Lewis]

Wayne Rooney IN. :cool:

[Spikey M]

Has there ever been a more obvious alcoholic than Wayne Rooney? (Apart from Fergie).

[Shindig]

Paul Gascoigne?

[Kikó]

Jack Grealish.

[Giggles]

Shane Magowan.

[Don]

My boy Nedum Onuoha's done an episode on Football Weekly about his new book. He is such a fucking don, highly recommended.