F1 2022 - El Plan

[Waffdon]

1579002202554650624

Fucking hell, no wonder Gasly was fuming.

[Waffdon]

Thankfully he has a championship that Sky can’t crib (much) about for the next year.

Why was it on so early? Is it a big enough race that they can just say fuck your and your European viewers.

Not really sure it even caters to anyone outside of Asia, the time zone.

[Shindig]

Just wait til the track is clear to recover that vehicle. Once all the cars are in pitlane. It's a very Suzuka problem though. Brundle in 1994, Bianchi in 2014 and now this. Maybe Japanese marshals are just thick?

[Disco]

They have a thing called night which happens at the end of every day and makes it harder to run an F1 race.

[Giggles]

They have a thing called night which happens at the end of every day and makes it harder to run an F1 race.

Doesn’t seem to bother the Arabs.

[Shindig]

The Arabs have these things called floodlights ...

[Giggles]

The Arabs have these things called floodlights ...

And there’s the answer to the question I asked. Good old TTH.

[niko_cee]

F1 does rather feel as if it's in an end of days state. A 30 minute race? There is literally nothing to commend it anymore. Even the rain, which was once a great equaliser, makes things worse as SAFETY [we'll ignore a car nearly going full beans into a recovery vehicle] mandates that no one is ever actually allowed to race in the wet, and if they are, all the absolutely necessary overtaking aids aren't permitted so it just becomes a comedy procession of people parking their massive cars all over whichever line the driver behind wants. LeClerc not having the balls to force Verstappen off in turn 1 decided the race [the same would not have happened were they switched]. No one having any idea what the situation with the points was at the end sums it up, and then we'll find out next week that Red Bull have been miles over the budget cap.

[Gray Fox]

The key is how far over the budget they were.

They split it at 5% over. 5% over and below is seen as less serious and likely punishments are a reduction in wind tunnel time, fines and lol worthily, a reduction in future cap space.

If they've gone over 5% and it sounds like they have by a fair way, then Mercedes especially will demanding the exclusion of them from the championship.

F1 seems to be in a place that now, no matter what has happened, no wins will be taken away once the cars have seen the chequered flag. I fully expect they'll give them a fine and reduction in wind tunnel time for being such silly boys. Toto to seethe himself into oblivion after.

[niko_cee]

I don't really care one way or the other [although I would say the absence of sporting sanctions universally means whatever you are trying to achieve in any sport, be it cost cutting F1 or less racism in football is doomed to achieve very little] but what I would be interested to know is how the use of red flags/safety cars/timed finishes in the last 2 or 3 seasons compares with the previous 3 decades. Just feels like it happens all the time now and it wrecks the thing as a spectacle.

[Gray Fox]

It likely feels worse now as we're trying to cram about 50 races a season in.

They need to do away with this 3 hour window bollocks though. Make every track install floodlights. If there's no chance of the rain letting up then fair enough, but what's the point in going for a 30 min race?

Even better than nobody knew they could award full points today, even the teams.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The combination of weird American private equity ideas (sprint races can fuck off), the continued insistence on murderous street venues which I thought would go away with Bernie, the weird sexualisation/fanboyisation of the drivers (or some of them) by the post-DTS online fanbase, and the fact that the cars are the sort of size and shape that merit being towed out of ditches by Ukrainian tractors, have all combined to make it less and less edifying over the last few years. There are also far too many safety cars (if there have to be so many for safety reasons, fine, but you shouldn't be able to pit under them).

No French or German GPs in a 24 race calendar, and Spa seems to be under serious threat. What gives?

[Shindig]

It's the contradiction of being money conscious whilst also trying to be the pinnacle of engineering. It used to be a more inviting sport for privateers and engine suppliers. Now the same three manufacturers hold those engines and the teens that drive them.

[Disco]

The barriers to entry are far too high (monetarily and technologically, we'll never get another Cosworth DFV for example) but I think that's largely by design, the manufacturers want to win but they don't want a competition. The result has been all the garagistas (ie the innovators) being priced out of the game and the sport 'relying' on a handful of manufacturers to stick around and retain the veneer of variety/competition. I had hoped the cost cap was a possible route back to the sort of contest we saw through the 80's / 90's, I guess we'll find out tomorrow what the FIA think about it.

[Giggles]

I wouldn't worry about any of that lads, the Merc is bound to be a whole lot better next year.

[Waffdon]

Minor breach it is. In my book you either breach a cost gap or you don’t but what do I know.

[Ben]

And as ever with punishment in sports for spending too much money, they will be fined some more money. I'm sure Red Bull and Lawrence Stroll will be up all night wondering how they're going to pay it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Minor breach is anything from 1p to £7.5 million, I wonder how much delta £7.5 million gets you in F1 these days. If the result is a fine then every team should now do it.

I would just lower their cost cap for next season by an amount that hurts. Sod changing old results.

[Ben]

Binotto was saying something about $5m being half a second.

[Disco]

Whatever it ends up being it is completely impossible to measure how much of an advantage it gave them, which is exactly why it doesn't matter. Fine them a wedge, take a lump out of the next periods cost cap and move on.

[niko_cee]

Yeah, the time gained for x pounds idea is a bit lol. If Ferrari reckon they could get 0.5s for £5m then you can only imagine what Adrian Newey can get for the same. They probably only needed to go over by a few packs of hobnobs to get the same relative advantage.

[Disco]

Hardly the firmest of ground given it's Ferrari making that argument.

[Disco]

From Joe Sawards Japan blog...



Alpine has taken the plunge with two French drivers who have not always got on in the past. Time will tell if this is wise but I am told that in an effort to keep friction to a minimum both drivers have been informed that they can have family at only two events a year, and that the two families cannot attend the same races…


This in the same week that Alpine have said Lando Norris is 'rattled' because he said they should be doing much better given their pace, and in the same year that Alpine thought retroactively writing 'Contract' on their copy of an agreement made it legally binding. An unwise amount of bluster for one of the worst performing factory teams in history.

[Jimmy Floyd]

What? Is there some kind of ludicrous dads-at-kids-football style beef (boeuf) between the families?

Lol either way at signing two drivers where you have to impose such a condition before one's even got into the uniform.

[Disco]

Apparently, the internet is split between general sporting parent bullshit and some sort of girlfriend stealing episode. Either way if Saward is mentioning it then there is likely something to it, even though it really shouldn't be a problem if everyone is vaguely professional.

[Disco]

It took Giovinazzi less than 10 minutes of FP1 to spin into a wall and cause a red flag. Might as well just announce Hulk now.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Sainz :\

[niko_cee]

We need to hear Russell's radio on that incident.

"He just turned in front of me!"

[Waffdon]

Alonso and Stroll hahahaaha.

Surely a Red Flag.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Meaty crash.

[Disco]

Strulovich moving over on someone, who could believe it.

[niko_cee]

You can hear in Alonso's voice that that is the sort of crash that makes you wonder what you're doing as a 40 year old mega millionaire doing this sort of thing.

[Gray Fox]

Strulovich moving over on someone, who could believe it.

Could genuinely have killed him with that too.

[Disco]

Funny how they made such a quick decision when it's just Gasly.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Max :harold:

[Waffdon]

Beautiful indeed. Hamilton's to lose.

[niko_cee]

Poor old Perez, he's going to have to go into bus mode now.

[niko_cee]

Didn't realise LeClerc and Verstappen had gone onto the mediums.

[Waffdon]

Verstappen still less than 1/2 to win lol

[Waffdon]

Didn't realise LeClerc and Verstappen had gone onto the mediums.

Surely they aren't going to last after them two going at it like that.

[Gray Fox]

Verstappen still less than 1/2 to win lol

He’ll still win.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Verstappen still less than 1/2 to win lol

He (and LeClerc) are so much faster than Lewis.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Vettel :(

Aston Martin fucking themselves.

[Waffdon]

He (and LeClerc) are so much faster than Lewis.

On Mediums with 1 less lap than Hamilton whilst they are both still fighting each other in 2nd. Lap times are now reducing too.

[7om]

Would love Don Lewis to win this.

[Waffdon]

Definitely ending with a safety car and Verstappen sweeping by Hamilton with a few laps left.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

He wont but if/when Max inches ahead Lewis should just wipe him out.

[Disco]

Once he gets into DRS this is done.

[7om]

I just hope Merc gave up on this seasons car a few months back and fully focused on 2023. We need them back at the front like this again.

[niko_cee]

Sitting duck here.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

And that's that.

[7om]

Lmao Lewis almost wiped that fucker out clean.

[niko_cee]

Why are they not showing the leaders?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Max breaking the track limits rule might be Hamilton's best chance.

[Waffdon]

Verstappen is just the greatest.

[Disco]

To keep this seasons narrative going Verstappen needs to go off again and then not get a penalty for it.

[niko_cee]

Feel Merc must have made a bit of a mistake on tyre choice here for the last stint, seeing as theirs look toast and the mediums seem to have survived being pushed much harder on the other cars [that usually wear their tyres more].

[Gray Fox]

Feel Merc must have made a bit of a mistake on tyre choice here for the last stint, seeing as theirs look toast and the mediums seem to have survived being pushed much harder on the other cars [that usually wear their tyres more].

The upgrade package they brought seems to have made them a bit harder on their tyres. Even the hards Lewis had on were burned up by the end. The Red Bull/Max were just faster.

[Gray Fox]

It seems Haas protested post-race about Alonsos wing mirror flying off and have been successful. He’s got a 30 second penalty applied so everyone shimmies one place from 15th.

[Waffdon]

Lando Norris casually in 6th place yet again. What a bloke.

[Ben]

It seems Haas protested post-race about Alonsos wing mirror flying off and have been successful. He’s got a 30 second penalty applied so everyone shimmies one place from 15th.

On that topic, funny how Magnussen was black and orange flagged for his front wing twice earlier in the season but Perez with the exact same damage wasn't. It took five laps for the endplate to fly off and it was long after Brundle picked up on it. Magnussen was called in a lot quicker than that. Guenther has a very valid point that teams aren't governed equally.

[Giggles]

Yeah that one was very strange. It was only waiting to go flying.

[Disco]

On that topic, funny how Magnussen was black and orange flagged for his front wing twice earlier in the season but Perez with the exact same damage wasn't. It took five laps for the endplate to fly off and it was long after Brundle picked up on it. Magnussen was called in a lot quicker than that. Guenther has a very valid point that teams aren't governed equally.

Gasly should feel very hard done by after his treatment yesterday. Compare it to Perez a few weeks ago, one transgression to three and his penalty had to be served during the race rather than waiting several hours and getting the chance to argue his case. Then he gets an extra 2 points on his licence for good measure.

[Shindig]

It's why I really worry about the budget cap. If they're serious about cost-cutting, they need to be zero tolerance about it and dish out tangible punishments. Ideally, I'd go this route:

- Dock constructors points for anyone that breaches the cap (or DQ them entirely like McLaren were for Spygate)
- How much they went over comes off their budget for the following season.

You can also argue tighter budget constraints could result in a grid of drivers more conscious of those around them. Latifi, Stroll, Russell (because he's got form for it now, as quick as he is) would all be on notice. It probably would also have Haas probably giving Grosjean a miss if crashes become a genuine factor.

[Disco]

It has to tangibly hurt ongoing performance if it's going to be any sort of deterrent which has to a big reduction in development time and a disproportionately large wedge out of the next years' budget. If it's a slap on the wrist then it's just an invitation for the richer teams to break the cap with impunity and were back to the big three just outspending everyone.

[Gray Fox]

It'll be a reduction in wind tunnel time and a fine(lol) for next year I should imagine.

As you say, they have to choose their punishment carefully here. They really can't be doing one of the Ferrari type settlement deals where no details are released. That'll be bad for everyone that isn't Red Bull.

I suppose the question is how far does someone have to push it on before they start voiding championships. As is well documented, the FIA absolutely detest changing a race/title winner after the fact. However if they don't show some cracking down here, what's to stop say, Mercedes, from next year going fuck it and dumping $10m over the budget to get them back up to the front and daring the FIA to act on it?

[Ben]

There are few things better than an Alonso seethe. Yeah, rules are rules but I think he has a point around the entire circumstances of his penalty. Firstly, fucking Stroll sent him airborne which caused the damage and secondly, they again had ample time to penalise/flag him during the race but didn't and then administered an inconsistent penalty after the fact. Even toe-the-line boys like Will Buxton are questioning it, which isn't a good look for the FIA (again).

[John Arne]

Martin Brundle putting Will "Dresses like a teenager" Buxton in his place on Twitter was good to see.

1584649196535439360

[Ben]

Buxton likes to portray himself as a man of the hardcore fans. But he's not likeable enough to pull it off.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Being a UK viewer I've never had much to do with Will Buxton, but I heard him interviewed on a golf podcast a while back (bizarrely) and he came across as a superficial smoothie twat.

[Ben]

About right.

[Shindig]

The thing about voiding championships is this a cast-iron chance for them to wipe that shambolic Abu Dhabi safety car from history. And it would be the kind of punishment to show they mean business. Unfair to the achievement from Max but football teams go into administration all the time and get punished. Points deductions whilst already in clear financial hardship? Doubly shit for the players who are likely not getting paid in the first place. Tough shit.

How about this?

- Strip them of the 2021 Driver's Title.
- Freeze development on their car for 2023.

[Ben]

Or how about this:

- Dock 5% of their wind tunnel time for 2023;
- Fine them an insignificant amount.

[Jimmy Floyd]

No one is going to be stripped of a driver's title. Ever, for any reason. If Verstappen got out of his car, took an air rifle out of his overalls and started popping other drivers in the hairpin, he'd still get given a championship if the race results came out that way.

The only precedents I can think of for retrospectively stripping season results in F1 are Schumacher getting thrown out of 1997 (which was only done because he lost the title anyway, they'd never have had the bottle if he'd won it) and that time when Tyrrell got disqualified in the 80s because reasons.

[Gray Fox]

1585179666469773312

[Ben]

Until Audi are on the grid, I'll hold onto my scepticism.

[Giggles]

Haven't they announced and cancelled this a few times now?

[Gray Fox]

But this time they've painted a car in their colours while they did it.

[Disco]

I think it was reported well before the official confirmation. Audi cancelled talks with Mclaren earlier this year and Porsche pulled out of their Red Bull deal.

[Jimmy Floyd]

McLarens need to make their own engine really. Can't see why it couldn't be done at the Ron Dennis Megadrome Death Star down the road from me, with its massive lake and proximity to one of southern England's worst town centres.

[Disco]

They've never been able to afford it.

[Disco]

Plus the MTC is pretty full up these days.

https://i.imgur.com/QxciepR.png

[Shindig]

Daniel Ricciardo (right)

[Ben]

Alonso's penalty has been overturned (rightly in my opinion) but it's only on the technicality that Haas protested too late rather than Alonso being a sitting duck behind Stroll's detour. The FIA are a complete shambles.

[Gray Fox]

$7m fine and 10% reduced wind tunnel time for the coming year for Red Bull.

[Disco]

That's actually not a bad result.


Alonso's penalty has been overturned (rightly in my opinion) but it's only on the technicality that Haas protested too late rather than Alonso being a sitting duck behind Stroll's detour. The FIA are a complete shambles.

Amazing how the officiating actually seems worse than last year, the only saving grace being they haven't altered the outcome of the season.

[niko_cee]

The fine is meaningless.

[Pepe]

What if they pay the fine, overspend again, and use 20% more time in the wind tunnel? Will they get an even larger fine and an even larger wind tunnel time reduction? What if...?

[Disco]

I was reading it as a budget reduction, as a fine it is indeed pointless but given they were never going to do anything concrete it does enough to protect the credibility of the cap. Most of it seems to be the misapplication of a tax rebate which is very different to someone intentionally breaking the budget.

[Ben]

It should be $7m off next year's cap, rather than them taking money from Red Bull's infinite coffers.

[Pepe]

Even if it is a reduction on the cap. they already went above the cap once. They can just go above it again.

[Disco]

Presumably repeat offences would be dealt with more harshly but I won't hold my breath on that.

[Disco]

inb4 Aston Martin are ejected from the championship.

[Shindig]

"We have been provided a significant financial and sporting penalty - $7m is an enormous amount of money and the more draconian part is the sporting penalty, which is a 10% reduction in our ability to use our wind tunnel and aerodynamic tools," Red Bull team principal Christian Horner said.

"That is an enormous amount. That represents between 0.25secs and 0.5secs of lap time. It comes in from now and will be in place for a 12-month period and will have an impact on development of our 2023 car."

Fuck off, whinger Spice.

[Gray Fox]

inb4 Aston Martin are ejected from the championship.

$450k fine for them. You might as well not bother with that.

[Disco]

Are Red Bull not trying because I don't remember Mercedes ever being good here let alone this season.

[Disco]

Danica Patrick just soared in my estimations by firmly dispelling the myth that you can hear the crowd from inside the car. The sky bod almost swallowed his microphone.

[Pepe]

I cannot hear the person on the passenger seat on my track car, which is a bloody dodge neon, so you bet that you cannot hear shit in a fucking F1.

[Waffdon]

Hamilton will win today. Verstappen to get clipped by Russell at the start. The streak will continue.

[Disco]

He needs something because I'm not sure they do it on pace, Tory George wiping out Verstappen would be just the thing.

[Giggles]

They’d have made Bottas do it but Russell will want the win himself.

[Waffdon]

Russell hits or nearly takes out everyone else so today should be no different, the lanky twat.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Max already won it.

[Adramelch]

Ferrari is so far off the pace.

[Gray Fox]

I think that's the wrong way about it for mercedes

[Waffdon]

Mercedes and their Hard Tyres smh

[Gray Fox]

Unless they think Max's tyres are going to degrade hard, it's a strange one.

[Disco]

I'm not sure they win any other way, or this way really but it's their best bet.

[Adramelch]

Ye I don't think it's that strange a decision. All it takes is for a Latifi special for it to go to waste though.

That said, Russell does think he can push it enough to only go for 1 pit stop and swap to soft tyres instead, so we'll see how that goes. EDIT: I guess not.

[Shindig]

Is there enough races left to see Mercedes take second in the constructors?

[Gray Fox]

Very much so with Ferrari this slow and unreliable

[Gray Fox]

This one looks done now. If Perez gets him the slim chance has gone.

[Waffdon]

Ye I don't think it's that strange a decision. All it takes is for a Latifi special for it to go to waste though.

That said, Russell does think he can push it enough to only go for 1 pit stop and swap to soft tyres instead, so we'll see how that goes. EDIT: I guess not.

Doesn't even need a Latifi special, there's always a safety car here.

[Adramelch]

Is there enough races left to see Mercedes take second in the constructors?

It's possible but it'll most probably take a DNF from a Ferrari for it to happen (which isn't that unlikely of course).

[Gray Fox]

It was a 53 point gap going into this. It should come into the 30's at the end of this if I'm right. Mercedes have the faster car and Brazil suits them much better than Ferrari. It should be all to play for in Abu Dhabi.

However if you're them, you get a chunk more wind tunnel time if you stay 3rd and they seem to almost have the car right now. Is it worth just sticking in 3rd? Especially with red bull being a bit gimped going into next season in the same regard.

[Waffdon]

What a snooze fest this has been

[Adramelch]

It'll be 41 if things stay as they are now, so you'll need a considerably bigger gap in the last two races.

[thommo]

That's Mexico City for you. Fucking woeful circuit, with two of the worst sections of track ever designed. Can't wait till 2025 when presumably Checo retires and it can be fucked off forever.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Danny Ric, oh dear.

[Waffdon]

Safety car there would have been nice.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Yuki is obviously seething.

[Waffdon]

Another Max Verstappen masterclass helped with a bit of Mercedes incompetence.

[Adramelch]

Another Max Verstappen masterclass helped with a bit of Mercedes incompetence.

I am really not sure what you expected? It would have been the exact same positioning if they'd held out for softs I reckon. For me that Perez is still behind Hamilton means their decision was ok.

[Pepe]

Perez had that shit pit stop tho.

[Adramelch]

He's losing time massively compared to the Mercedes though (or well, he was until that VSC).

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Why do they need a virtual safety car for that? Car is clear from the track.

[Waffdon]

George Russell is such a stuck up, Tory twat.

[Giggles]

Hamilton still griping about booing? :D

[Shindig]

It's all so petty, to be honest. "SHAMILTON, HURHURHUR!"

[Giggles]

He lost all credibility on that when he was trying to rile everyone up to give Verstappen the dogs at Silverstone.

[niko_cee]

:yawn:

When was the last time some tyres actually 'went off'? That mad race in Canada where everyone had to have about 10 stops? Hamilton inexplicably running his into the ground in China in his debut season? So painfully dull. Why don't they open the full array of tyres up for every race? Pick 3 where one is invariably an absolute dog makes the use two compounds rule a bit dull [even if having 5 shit choices wouldn't make things much better]. They probably need to do away with all the sensor data so the pit wall either start having to listen to the moany gimps or the moany gimps have to sort their lives out. At least then 'tyre management' would be some sort of skill as opposed to somebody reading tread depth [obviously not] or whatever it is they do.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

That race was so shit.

[Disco]

Ross Chastain just did a legit fucking wall ride at the end of a NASCAR race, give him the title now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOY9p5gFa5Q

[John Arne]

A Ferrari has crashed on the Vietnam F1 track.

Unfortunately the driver was drink driving, he was 25yrs old and had diplomatic plates on. He fled the scene and left his girlfriend to deal with the cops and dead body. He managed to completely smash the motorbike into 2 pieces.

https://gyazo.com/8c318a94c046960ec13208ce2a9472f6.jpeg

[Clunge]

That Mexico race was over the moment a Mercedes wasn't leading out of the first turn. Cannot understand why Mercedes went the same way on strategy with both cars. It was obvious from the first round of stops the tyres would last forever. They could have easily done 35-40 laps on the mediums and remained in the picture and then stuck the softs on later a la Ricciardo. Result may well have been the same, but not to at least try it with one of the cars was very odd.

And agreed, it is a crap track.

[Ben]

The strategy from Mercedes was pretty lol in hindsight but it didn’t matter. Max was just fucking around. He did a 1:22 on every lap on the mediums (about 45 laps).

[Shindig]

Ross Chastain just did a legit fucking wall ride at the end of a NASCAR race, give him the title now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOY9p5gFa5Q

I can't believe how well that works. :D

[Pepe]

Will everyone start trying that from now on?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Probably until the car flips up and causes a huge crash.

[SincereTheRebel]

N4s

[Disco]

The strategy from Mercedes was pretty lol in hindsight but it didn’t matter. Max was just fucking around. He did a 1:22 on every lap on the mediums (about 45 laps).

No strategy was going to overcome Verstappen simply being faster, and Hamilton had no softs left to use so his only other option was to stop twice which would have been even slower.

[Lewis]

1586846744490516480

The crowd footage is incredible.

[niko_cee]

That's pretty much how I used to run that massive speed track on Gran Turismo with the old Pikes Peak Escudo or whatever it was so I'm glad to see that it is an actual thing.

[Lewis]

There were particular downforce settings you could put on the Toyota GT-One that caused it to sort of wheelie down the straight and hit about a thousand miles per hour.

[Pepe]

They'll have to ban that shit, right? Unfortunately.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Presumably you have to be incredibly good and/or lucky to pull it off. If everyone tries the same stunt in the Mike's Alligator Meat 300, there will be deaths.

[Disco]

It's been tried before and I would think it would only work on the short tracks, which is about three.

[Lewis]

I read something about it earlier, and most other tracks are too fast and/or banked going into the corners, so the initial impact just either wrecks it straight away or sets it wobbling too much to make it round. That track was basically perfect for it, and so is the final one apparently.

[Disco]

I also don't think it would have worked last year with the old car, of course he's probably ended up with about 12 concussions but it did look cool.

[Shindig]

Plus you've got to hope that lane's open. Proper once in a blue moon stuff.

[Disco]

That's why I don't think you ban it, even if you can concoct a suitable rule, it's so incredibly situational and extremely easy to defend against.

[Gray Fox]

It seems we're trying to cancel Ted Kravitz this week. I've not seen the clip yet, but I'm told during one of his notebooks from Austin or Mexico he bluntly said that Hamilton was robbed of the 2021 title by Michael Masi.

The entire of the Red Bull team said they will boycott Sky F1, though they didn't say how long for. It seems Kravitz at least has a friend at The Times (https://twitter.com/matthewsyed/status/1587489247480668162).

It'll likely de-escalate over the coming week or so until Brazil, but if it doesn't, we could be in for Horner-free weekends for a while. Bliss.

[John Arne]

Brundle has come out and supported him, too. Red Bull need to man the fuck up.

[Disco]

He's not wrong but why bring it up now? I also found 'Spendy Spice' funnier than I should have.

[Giggles]

He needs to let it the fuck go. Sky have been a complete embarrassment about the whole thing and he’s been the poster boy for it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Who fucking cares if a pit lane bloke says something biased? Have we gone through the tapes of Dutch TV to see if they are 100% neutral at all times?

[niko_cee]

Verstappen and Horner are probably just seething because 'the script' ended with Kravitz essentially saying Newey was the hero of the film.

[Ben]

Dutch TV are pretty much the worst for bias as well so Max needs to grow up.

[Disco]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35bcIXs8l5M

Love these uploads from '93, this one featuring Gerhard Berger and his giant hairy balls and Murray Walker who even at his effusive best could only muster 'from Barnet' as something to say about Mark Blundell.

[thommo]

I do remember Martin Brundle essentially shitting on Vettel after his 4th WDC in a row with his adulation of Newey. It's not something new - Sky are always fairly biased towards the Brits and it rubs people up the wrong way as they're the chosen world broadcaster for F1.

I don't see an issue with Max not wanting to speak with Ted/Sky at Mexico - as long as you do your media obligations with the press conferences, I couldn't care less if you choose not to speak to a specific broadcaster. But Horner always takes it one step further with his excuses.

[Jimmy Floyd]

People in other countries moaning about pro-British attitude of the British broadcaster should turn their ire on the local broadcasters for picking up Sky and being too cheap to produce their own broadcast.

[Ben]

Hulk to Haas looking a certainty now.

[Shindig]

I'm going to assume that means Schumacher's run is over.

[Disco]

Yeah he's done if they go for Hulkenburg, I can't see anyone else taking him on.

In other news, Hamiltons 'one win a year' record is under threat but if none of Hamilton, Russell, Ricciardo, Norris, Vettel, Stroll, Albon, or Latifi win either of the last two races it will be first time since 1953 that the British flag hasn't seen the top step of the podium.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I can't believe that. Wasn't there a weak period post Hunt and pre Mansell, or was John Watson knocking out a win a year then?

[Disco]

Prost, Senna and Lauda all lent a hand.

[SincereTheRebel]

I was confused but you have also thrown in manufacturers too.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Oh, cars as well? All the cars are British except the red and blue ones so whatever.

[Disco]

Less so these days, only three have British registration as most of them get licenced elsewhere. Bonus point to whoever can tell me which team has been registered in/licenced from 5 different countries and which countries they were.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Enstone has been in Britain, Italy, France, think that's it though.

Aston Martin - Ireland, Britain, Holland, erm, India. Germany?

[Giggles]

Aston Martin were registered here? Unless you’re thinking of Jordan, but that licence died with Force India.

[Disco]

For some reason Midland was licenced in Russia, but otherwise you've got it.

[Giggles]

Ferrari are the gift that keep on giving.

[Gray Fox]

Kevin :cool:

[Disco]

Magnussen on pole, make it happen.

[Giggles]

How can Magnussen end up on pole when he didn’t do a lap?

[Disco]

He did.

[Giggles]

Ah, he did. They’re just not showing a lap time for some reason.

[thommo]

KMag on the radio sounded so happy, before he had to try and calm himself down. It's been a fantastic qualifying session before this anyway, Interlagos and changeable weather is just the BEST combination.

[Gray Fox]

No one coming out. Damp track. This one is over.

[Disco]

I forgot it's not proper pole because of stupid sprint races.

[Gray Fox]

Pole in the record books.

Loving this.

[thommo]

I forgot it's not proper pole because of stupid sprint races.

It is, they changed it this year thankfully.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I say it every year, but there isn't a better racing venue on the calendar.

[Waffdon]

Fuck sake. Didn’t realise this was on. Brazil is so good. Tomorrow should be fun for a sprint race. Maybe.

[Giggles]

Whatever about not being able to beat Magnussen, why did the other 8 drivers not try and better each other? Or do the Q2 times still count vs Q3 ones?

[Disco]

It doesn't matter what they count, the sprint sets the grid for Sunday and he won't be starting there as he would on a normal weekend.

[Gray Fox]

Whatever about not being able to beat Magnussen, why did the other 8 drivers not try and better each other? Or do the Q2 times still count vs Q3 ones?

They had one shot because the rain was coming. Some cars warm their tyres into the right window faster than others. Haas is great at it and KMag put a top lap in.

[thommo]

It doesn't matter what they count, the sprint sets the grid for Sunday and he won't be starting there as he would on a normal weekend.

Ah right, I thought you meant he wouldn't have an official pole to his name. Yeah, a big shame it's not for the race, but I can't imagine he's backing down on the early laps so it could be a fun start for once.

[Giggles]

They had one shot because the rain was coming. Some cars warm their tyres into the right window faster than others. Haas is great at it and KMag put a top lap in.

I hadn’t copped the other drivers had got a time in before the red flag.

[Waffdon]

Ah right, I thought you meant he wouldn't have an official pole to his name. Yeah, a big shame it's not for the race, but I can't imagine he's backing down on the early laps so it could be a fun start for once.

Yeah, KMag is ruthless. Wouldn’t surprised me if he puts a couple of people off the road at the start. Won’t back down like a bitch when Verstappen tries to bully his way in front anyway.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I fucking hate F1 sprint races. With all the passion in my heart. I hate them more than I like the rest of motor racing, which is a lot.

[Waffdon]

Last year at Brazil was fun with Hamilton on a rampage.

[Shindig]

They just seem so bloody pointless. Too much effort to substitute for qualifying, not rewarding enough as a race itself.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Although I'm a Hamilton sympathiser, last year's Brazil event was a great example of why sprint races are shite. He should have been starting from 20th after being thrown out of qualifying, but the sprint race got him to 10th and from there it was basically a nailed on podium in a top 2 car, with a win possible with a great drive/some luck (which indeed happened).

EDIT: Sorry, to 5th and then a grid penalty sent him back to 10th.

If you feel you have to have a sprint race, do it as a funky stand alone event on the Saturday with the grid order drawn out of a locally appropriate hat just beforehand. Cowboy hat at Austin, bearskin at Silverstone, beret at Paul Ricard.

[Shindig]

Yeah, BTCC it. Hell, get Jason Plato to drive a Williams.

[Ben]

Plato :cool: bloke is still going.

Also, Kev :cool:

[Pepe]

I say it every year, but there isn't a better racing venue on the calendar.

It really is a stunning track.

[Shindig]

I love it. I know it used to be longer but the current layout has always felt perfect to me. The fact it sits there in a lovely little bowl, too. I bet it's great for spectators.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The downhill esses, the run down to the lake, then the technical corners, then the run back up the hill and explosion down the straight. Just the perfect rhythm for a racetrack (for a dreadful rhythm, see Paul Ricard or COTA).

Corner names as well. Mergulho into Juncão. Pinheirinho. Bico de Pato. Fuck numbers.

[Shindig]

Naming corners after what they look like. :cool:

[Gray Fox]

Very much at the point where the point where the sport would be better if Fernando just fucked off now.

[Giggles]

‘Will the be Mercedes day?’

Sky do know they’re not Rover don’t they?

[Waffdon]

I fucking hate Lance Stroll

[Shindig]

His track awareness is piss poor.

[Waffdon]

This is great. Sainz and Hamilton right behind now too

[Giggles]

This is good. Russel will get him :cool:

[Giggles]

Russell to beat Hamilton tomorrow :drool:

[Ben]

Mercedes look really good. Shovlin wasn’t really expecting it yesterday either.

[Ben]

But sprint races are shit, even though this one has been eventful. It just sets the grid into true pace order before the race starts. Makes the Sunday boring.

[Adramelch]

But sprint races are shit, even though this one has been eventful. It just sets the grid into true pace order before the race starts. Makes the Sunday boring.

They are changing that next season if I recall correctly. More points for sprint races but qualifiers still deciding the starting grid for the full race.

Edit: Also I'd forgotten this sprint race was even a thing. Makes it more likely that Mercedes beat Ferrari in the constructors.

[Pepe]

They should go full tin can and do reverse grids.

[Giggles]

They should go full tin can and do reverse grids.

Watching them all slowing to a near stop coming over the line would be some TV.

[Waffdon]

It’s weird seeing a crowd erupt for Hamilton. I thought they’d be bitter about Hamilton considering he stopped Massa from winning the title.

[Ben]

Is that Glock? :drool:

[Giggles]

It’s weird seeing a crowd erupt for Hamilton. I thought they’d be bitter about Hamilton considering he stopped Massa from winning the title.

His plastic polish spreads the world over.

[Waffdon]

That would be quite funny if they give Hamilton a penalty for giving himself a disadvantage lol

[niko_cee]

The main take away from that being that Interlagos is just such a great track [as has been said] and it's a shame that the calendar has so few of them in it.

Verstappen will probably torch the Mercs early doors. Hamilton's rear-gunner plan will probably go out of the window in turn 1.

[Shindig]

Yeah, although Mercedes will have the pace to keep Ferrari back. Hopefully Schumacher can crack the top 10. He did well to sneak up to 12th.

[Gray Fox]

Gasly summoned for driving too slowly and the Alpines both summoned too.

Could still have more mix up to the grid yet.

[Disco]

It’s weird seeing a crowd erupt for Hamilton. I thought they’d be bitter about Hamilton considering he stopped Massa from winning the title.

Quite the opposite, they like him so much they made him a citizen.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Do Sky dig up the Massa 2008 story every year at this race? Seems hard on the poor man.

Emmo in the Lotus 72 though :drool:

[Disco]

It cannot be stated how amazing Bottas looks this weekend.

https://i.imgur.com/rzIG9Aq.png

[Jimmy Floyd]

At the exact midpoint between Nigel Mansell, Ricky Bobby and Ron Swanson.

[Disco]

What have they done to this anthem, it's normally one of the better ones.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Utterly horrible driving by Ricciardo there. Drag him back to Australia to race V8s or something.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

He's such a prick.

[Pepe]

Remember when people thought he was good? :harold:

[Jimmy Floyd]

He was good in the middle of the last decade, he just ain't anymore. It happens.

[Pepe]

He was ok. Lol at him thinking he was too good to be a 2nd driver.

[Pepe]

So we expecting Russell to get his first win here, or will Verstappen still lol them off?

[Adramelch]

Will be somewhat surprised if he doesn't to be honest.

[Giggles]

Russel to be made give it to Hamilton to keep the run going.

[Jimmy Floyd]

That was equally bad by the flying Dutchman.

And Norris. I've seen better driving than this in the Tesco car park on a Saturday lunchtime.

[Giggles]

Safety car was bad timing when Redzone is on.

[Shindig]

Good job, Giggles. :D

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Max is a nonce.

Surprised LeClerc is managing to carry on.

[Pepe]

Did everyone forget how to drive?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Makes up for the shitty Mexico GP.

More of this please.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

The Charles radio :D

[Jimmy Floyd]

Max didn't 'have the right to more space', he did his usual thing of completely outbraking himself into the back of a corner and then demanding to be let through because his car has gone further.

And Norris just ploughed into the Ferrari, how is that a racing indicent.

[Pepe]

Yeah, that was just terrible from Norris. Verstappen trying to bully his way.

[Waffdon]

Perez will win this.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Martin, he was only 'ahead' because he didn't bother braking at the proper time. How is this so hard to understand?

[Shindig]

Penalty for Verstappen. Horner's seethe will last a thousand years.

[Gray Fox]

Max just seems unable to yield to Lewis. Something in his head about him.

[Ben]

Finally the car divebombing from behind is penalised.

[Adramelch]

Those 5-second penalties are really bad to be honest. They are inconsequential the majority of the times. Just a cop-out really.

[Shindig]

Those Ferraris just eat tear-offs.

[Ben]

Ferrari are just a curse. Decide to go long on mediums and end up with tear-offs in the duct. :D