F1 2022 - El Plan

[Disco]

That picture really is the gift that keeps on giving.

https://i.imgur.com/TGes9J5.png

[Adramelch]

He's on track to break quite a few records this season as things are.

[Ben]

Porsche have pulled the plug. Apparently they wanted some partnership in Red Bull, rather than just being the engine provider.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Bullet dodged all round I suspect.

Can't wait for Audi to balls up whichever team they end up buying.

[Ben]

Until Audi are on the grid, I'm not believing that one either.

[Shindig]

So does that mean Red Bull are still building fake Hondas or looking for a new supplier?

[Ben]

Five place grid penalty for Verstappen (extra power unit) but it's penalties all round so whatever.

[Ben]

So does that mean Red Bull are still building fake Hondas or looking for a new supplier?

Depends if they can find someone who will just supply the engine. I don't blame them for ditching Porsche really because what if it went tits up (like McLaren Honda) and you're stuck with them because they own a percentage of the team?

[Disco]

Audi are buying into Sauber but I don't think it's immediate. Not that surprised by the Porsche news, I always wondered how that was going to work with Honda still so involved. Essentially giving your whole engine design to another manufacturer always seemed like an odd move.

[Disco]

I can't seem to make out who has gotten cold feet in this Red Bull deal, accounts seem to differ from Red Bull changing their mind on how much of Fizzy Pop Powertrains was on offer to Porsche upping the % they wanted. Lol either way, I wonder if they'll end up being forced to do what they said they would but clearly never intended which is to build their own engines from 2026.

I also looked up the Audi deal with Sauber and it starts in 2026 with Alfa ending their sponsorship after 2023. Presumably that means we get a couple years of proper Sauber before the Auto Union lads roll into Hinwil.

[Waffdon]

Quali has changed to 15.00 tomorrow and the race is 14.00 on Sunday. No idea what it was before but Sky tweeted that’s the updated schedule

Edit: actually it’s just the same, looks like they’ve decreased the coverage before and after. Lol at that

[Ben]

Nonsensical.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It was Monza when Diana died as well. Coulthard won. Sir Lewis to lead home Russell and Norris (I'm presuming the front four have all gone down with food poisoning or something) for Her Majesty.

[niko_cee]

Quali has changed to 15.00 tomorrow and the race is 14.00 on Sunday. No idea what it was before but Sky tweeted that’s the updated schedule

Edit: actually it’s just the same, looks like they’ve decreased the coverage before and after. Lol at that

I noticed BBC were doing nothing but times on the livetext for practice earlier. All a bit bizarre.

[Giggles]

I noticed BBC were doing nothing but times on the livetext for practice earlier. All a bit bizarre.

The fear of being cancelled. Everyone seems to have gone mad trying to up everyone else.

[Shindig]

I hope Porsche are so pissed off they field a works team in opposition. Meanwhile Michael Andretti seethes.

[thommo]

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Shame for Albon as I think he'd be competitive in the Williams this weekend. Interesting to see how de Vries does. Did FP1 for Aston Martin yesterday and now he has a full Saturday and Sunday for Williams.

[Ben]

Go on then boffins, has that happened before? Driving for two teams in the same weekend.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It must have done, probably in 1994. Everything happened in 1994.

[Gray Fox]

A bit of a moot qualifying session today. Surely Leclerc has it?

Though I do think come the race Max could lap literally everyone.

[Disco]

9 grid penalties, never has a qualy session looked so pointless.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It is a bit of a farce. How about points deductions instead?

[Giggles]

What’s with all the royal logos on the cars? Is it because the sport itself is UK based or what?

Ferrari would be the one that really stands out. No British driver and not British based.

[Gray Fox]

7 of the teams are UK based.

No one can hope to understand the workings of Ferrari.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Question - if Albon had had a grid penalty coming into this, would De Vries have inherited it? I'm sure this came up last year.

[Giggles]

7 of the teams are UK based.

No one can hope to understand the workings of Ferrari.

True. Including anyone actually working for Ferrari.

[Ben]

Question - if Albon had had a grid penalty coming into this, would De Vries have inherited it? I'm sure this came up last year.

I’m sure the penalty applies to the driver, not the car. So his penalties would carry to Singapore. Not 100% on that though.

[Ben]

Valsecchi should do these interviews every week. :D

[Waffdon]

Verstappen in P4? with a 5 grid penalty? I’m obviously not smart enough for all these rules.

[Ben]

Neither are the FIA evidently.

[Waffdon]

It might be wrong but Twitter seems to think it’s Leclerc/Russell/Norris/Verstappen/ricciardo

[Gray Fox]

FIA are still working it out.

[Ben]

“We are checking…we will come back to you.”

[Waffdon]

Have they still not announced the grid? :D

[Waffdon]

1568670385314631680

Clearly not

[Gray Fox]

1568688659637096448

They finally worked it out.

[Ben]

Ricciardo 4th :D

Today was completely pointless then.

[Gray Fox]

It’s again set up for a lot of overtakes for everyone behind Leclerc.
He should piss off into the distance until Max catches him and lols past him.

There’s going to be some turn 1 chaos though.

[Waffdon]

Mclaren to finish 1-2 again with Norris in #1 this time if there was a god

[Ben]

De Vries will do what Toto tells him and bowl into the back of Max’s diffuser at T1.

[Disco]

Valsecchi should do these interviews every week. :D

He's amazing, if only he still did the F2/F3 commentary.


I’m sure the penalty applies to the driver, not the car. So his penalties would carry to Singapore. Not 100% on that though.

I think they apply to the entry rather than the driver given it was mainly to cut costs, otherwise you could circumvent the limit rather easily.

[Shindig]

Verstappen will comfortably win this with DRS passes all day.

[Giggles]

We’re overdue something interesting happening so I’m all in on Verstappen not putting in a full lap today.

[Clunge]

We're in for an interesting race IF Leclerc isn't leading out of the first chicane. Ideally punted off. In fact, absolutely ideal would be two puntings off – Leclerc and Verstappen – so they both end up having to pit and plum last. Norris-Russell dogfight? Bring it on.

Any rain around?

[Giggles]

Norris beating Russel would be a good day.

[niko_cee]

It must have done, probably in 1994. Everything happened in 1994.

1978 according to Crofty, Harald Ertl at Monza.

[Gray Fox]

Anthem watch ruined by there being no audio for about 80% of it.

Should hopefully be a decent race behind Max fucking off on a Sunday drive.

[Giggles]

Norris fucked that already.

[Adramelch]

Does Russell ever consider himself to be at fault?

[Waffdon]

No. He’s a proper melt.

Verstappen about to break the record for wins with ease this year. And next year. And probably year after

[Shindig]

Hamilton's making no progress at the back.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

RIP Perez.

[Waffdon]

Another race of Russell just driving on his own for 95% of the race it seems

[Shindig]

Ferrari using plan A for once.

[Gray Fox]

Hamilton gaining reasonably but nothing like Sainz.
Him up against Max would have been great today.

[Gray Fox]

https://i.gyazo.com/a6525b594bf034f6f8144848068a24be.png

[Giggles]

This is in danger of becoming a complete snooze.

[Shindig]

Ferrari down to plan C. Two stopper, probably.

[Waffdon]

This is in danger of becoming a complete snooze.

Already is. As is most races unfortunately

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Sainz putting his foot through the floor before the pit.

[Gray Fox]

Race set, it seems.

[Shindig]

Pretty much. I do wonder if Perez's tyres could give Hamilton a shot but it's probably too much ground to make up.

[Gray Fox]

Red Bull obviously got bored. There was no way Hamilton caught him.

[Shindig]

I would've been shitting it over punctures.

[Gray Fox]

Oh look, more excuses to bring up Abu Dhabi.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

De Vries :cool:

[Giggles]

Oh look, more excuses to bring up Abu Dhabi.

It’s surpassed Maradona ‘86 at this sage. Easily.

[Shindig]

Get him in that Alpine.

[Giggles]

Get him in that Alpine.

Has he any chance of taking over from Hamilton or is the future elsewhere?

[Giggles]

Ah the booing is ok this week according to Sky, fans are just frustrated. That’s a fair swing from the pearl clutching a few races ago, hard to keep up.

[Shindig]

I feel like if Mercedes really rated him, he would've been in a seat years ago.

[Disco]

Half the grid has had the chance to take De Vries and no-one has, he's decent but that's it. Alpine are taking Gasly if Red Bull can get a licence for Colton Herta or they might bring Doohan up from F2.

[niko_cee]

Didn't realise they'd actually put the safety car out in the wrong place, wondered why it seemed to take forever for anyone to actually be behind it.

I know it's never going to change, but I think the specific circumstances surrounding the Jules Bianchi thing, which has precipitated this ABSOLUTELY NO MARSHALS OR TRUCKS ON A LIVE TRACK policy, have sort of been forgotten. The conditions were apocalyptic. There are far too many safety cars now. They probably need to think about completely overhauling the way accidents are cleared. Perhaps they were onto something with red flag mania last season

[Luke Emia]

If they feel a safety car is the best thing then so be it. What they shouldn't be let happen is pitting under the safety car. It takes away so much potential jeopardy because as soon as there is a safety car everyone comes in for obvious reasons.

[Shindig]

Pitting also extends the safety car period out because it takes longer for them to form up.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The biggest tension in F1 probably since Imola 94 or even before has been the tension between safety and spectacle (a tension that didn't exist back in the dangerous days). The fact that we've needed DRS, constant safety cars and comedy tyres to make the races good since about 2000 is testament to that.

[Ben]

Should have been a red flag in retrospect. The car was in a very unsafe place really. Even behind a safety car all it takes is a tyre blowout (which Pirelli are known for) and there’s complete carnage.

[Clunge]

Why not just red flag everything? Grid starts = more jeopardy too. Bin off the VSC too.

[7om]

This has got to be the end for Latifi, hasn't it? I get that he brings in the cash but wasn't Dorliton supposed to be the answer in that regard? The fact that de Vries walked into that situation for FP3 and soundly beat the regular driver just tells you everything.

[Waffdon]

Him and Stroll are the two most arrogant cunts going when you watch any F1 video as well. Thought Canadians were nice.

[Ben]

It's pretty difficult to be a billionaire without being at least a bit of a cunt.

[niko_cee]

Why not just red flag everything? Grid starts = more jeopardy too. Bin off the VSC too.

They'd have to start the races at 10 in the morning to get through most of them in daylight hours.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Make the drivers stop wherever they are out on track and then go again when it's been cleared.

Also, on the grid penalties, I've decided on a 1-race ban for the driver instead of grid penalties of 10+ places. Instead of a 5-place penalty, you start a lap down. Fresh tactical dimension.

[Pepe]

Make the drivers stop wherever they are out on track and then go again when it's been cleared.

I imagine that the brakes of some cars would become very unresponsive in such a scenario.

CART managed the yellow flag/safety cars situation just fine decades ago. F1 was and still is light years behind in comparison.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The old way in F1 was red flag and then start the race again with aggregate times counting. Bring that back.

[Gray Fox]

Respiratory failure for Albon after having his appendix out.
He’s okay now but I reckon he may miss another race or two.

[Disco]

Aggregated timing :drool:

I liked how, no matter what regulations have been put in place (the Bianchi accident was as much down to the culture of ignoring yellow flags as it was about vehicles inside the barrier) we still had three or four Italian marshalls standing between the car and the barrier shrugging to each other while the field went at racing speed to catch up to the pack. Part of the problem is that the FIA/F1 want things to happen that the technical regs don't support. You can't do a NASCAR and stop everyone on track because the cars need twelve mechanics to stop them dissolving or whatever. The only real option to avoid finishing under a safety car (which isn't the outrage that it seems to have been made out as) is to send them all back to the pits and then restart again but it's a bigger disruption and an awful lot of faffing about while Luigi and Mario push a car back behind the barrier.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Respiratory failure for Albon after having his appendix out.
He’s okay now but I reckon he may miss another race or two.

I think he'd have missed the next one or two even if he hadn't.

It's tough 3-4 weeks to recover from having your appendix out.

[Shindig]

Visibility must've been shit for Bianchi, to be fair. The weather was rotten.

[Ben]

I think he'd have missed the next one or two even if he hadn't.

It's tough 3-4 weeks to recover from having your appendix out.

Capito seemed convinced he’d be back for Singapore so don’t know what he was smoking.

[thommo]

Should have been a red flag in retrospect. The car was in a very unsafe place really. Even behind a safety car all it takes is a tyre blowout (which Pirelli are known for) and there’s complete carnage.

I don't know about that. The red flag seems to get thrown all the time nowadays and it really would have felt gimmicky if they did it there. It's not as if you're rattling through the Lesmos at top speed putting pressure on the tyres.

[Ben]

I don't know about that. The red flag seems to get thrown all the time nowadays and it really would have felt gimmicky if they did it there. It's not as if you're rattling through the Lesmos at top speed putting pressure on the tyres.

I agree to an extent regarding red flags but I feel this was warranted for purely safety reasons (Max would have won anyway so whatever on the spectacle). Having a car on the inside of the track between the two Lesmo corners is pretty dangerous. The stricken car is completely blind until you've exited Lesmo 1. If he was half way down the pit straight it would be different because you can see the danger area a mile back.

[thommo]

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It was on the cards, even more so after the performance from de Vries in Monza. Along with the announcement yesterday that Yuki is staying at AlphaTauri for another year, we're slowly seeing the grid take shape for 2023.

[Waffdon]

One Canadian down, one to go. Never gonna happen though.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Where are Williams finding his money from?

[Shindig]

The new-ish owners probably have some hooks elsewhere.

[Gray Fox]

Seems there’s a rumour going around the paddock that the FIA are about to announce Aston Martin and Red Bull went over the salary cap last year.
I could see Mercedes going nuclear if that turns out to be true.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Well Masi must have been well-paid (lololololol!)

You should get done constructors' points for that really, as without a cost cap there's not really a sport in its current guise.

[Adramelch]

Well Masi must have been well-paid (lololololol!)

You should get done constructors' points for that really, as without a cost cap there's not really a sport in its current guise.

From what I can gather, the penalty is probably going to be a significant reduction in next season's budget cap for the team(s) in question.

[Jimmy Floyd]

And then they'll just break it again. Lol at Aston Martin doing so and getting far worse, I suppose.

[Ben]

Can't remember who said it a couple of months ago but it was either a team owner or principal and it was basically "good luck enforcing the salary cap" so I'm not holding out for any punishment. Maybe one of those trivial fines that Lewis and Max got.

[Gray Fox]

The rumour has developed a little more to say that Aston were within the 5% that would classify it as a more minor breach of the cap, but the other team, still said to be Red Bull, were well in excess of the 5%

[Giggles]

Might at least mean we hear something else on Sky other than the last race of last season. Small mercies.

[Gray Fox]

If anything this will get them going on about it again. Points deductions and expulsion from the championship are two possible penalties that can come from this.

It will most likely be a heavy reduction in wind tunnel time and cutting their cap for next year down, but if Red Bull are way over the 5% there's a precedent setting decision to make.

[Disco]

Forensic accounting is a well established thing so there should be no issue finding breaches of the cap, the issue will be with the FIAs willingness to enforce any punishment. The fact that they never outlined what punishments would be applied for going over the cap by various degrees doesn't inspire confidence. I only have the reports to go on but they suggest a couple of teams have gone over by about 5%, I would expect a lowering of the cap for a future season or reduction in wind tunnel time. The maximum I would ever expect to see is the loss of some constructors points (which they could handily do for last season as it changes nothing). Anyone who thinks for a second that Verstappen will lose any of his points for last season is having a mental episode, they were never in a thousand years going to change the result even 10 minutes after the race ended, the idea that they would do so a year later is laughable.

[Adramelch]

What's really the point in qualifying if half the time is under yellow flags?

[Waffdon]

George Russell :lol:

[Jimmy Floyd]

There are some really naff drivers on the current grid. Must be at least 6-8 better ones in other categories, mostly older.

[7om]

It’s Aston Martin that puzzle me. Are they a serious team? They have pumped serious cash into their HQ facilities and have been poaching engineering talent up and down the grid. Yet they have 41 year old Alonso and the owners son in the drivers seats.

[Ben]

Max had pole there. He will be seething. :D

[Jimmy Floyd]

Lol at Red Bull. Pretty sure he aborted two decent laps.

Great education in who can drive, that session. Alonso and Hamilton coming to the fore.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Max's radio :lol:

[Disco]

I don't know what they're worried about, Leclerc on pole is normally followed by Verstappen winning by half a minute.

[Shindig]

I like to think Max is this sweary on civilian roads. And capable of battering someone to death on the hard shoulder of the M1 over nothing.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Battering innocent people certainly runs in the family.

[Giggles]

Lol at Red Bull. Pretty sure he aborted two decent laps.

Great education in who can drive, that session. Alonso and Hamilton coming to the fore.

Verstappen can’t drive :D

You really are some harrumph can of piss.

[Jimmy Floyd]

That post alludes in its first line to the fact that he can drive (he was on for pole twice but the team botched him both times). Carlos Sainz being miles off the pace in the fastest car, Tsunoda 7 tenths off his team mate, this is more of a problem. Perez is a dud as well despite timing his run to get 2nd.

[Clunge]

Odd one re Tsunoda as he was looking very handy in Q1/Q2.

[Ben]

I can't see Tsunoda lasting beyond 2023 unless he improves massively.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He is another iteration of every Japanese driver that has ever been in F1, quick at times and then an idiot. Which is strange, because as a people they've always struck me as having the studied intensity to have produced a champion by now.

I've been watching F2 of late to try and see if they have anyone. Mostly crap. Mick Doohan's boy, and the French lad beginning with P. Those could do F1.

[Waffdon]

F1 hate the Wet Tyres

[Gray Fox]

Monsoon type rain at the track. This seems very Spa 2021.

[niko_cee]

I imagine these large areas of standing water are going to be problematic. I guess at least they haven't got to worry about the light.

[Gray Fox]

The daftest thing about this is that the best way to move that water is getting the cars out on track. If it's just spitting now, then it should be fine if there's decent drainage there.

[Adramelch]

Apparently Verstappen had no fuel left and would be starting from the pit lane if he'd finished that lap, or something along those lines.

[7om]

We’ll be lucky to see any meaningful racing here. Fucking joke of a sport.

[niko_cee]

They've started the time limit countdown already? :cab:

[Gray Fox]

If there's no safety car(there will be) then we'll get over 75% for the full points. No chance of a full race now. No idea why they've delayed things over an hour?

[Ben]

Still the whole hour start procedure with a 1 hour 55 minute race. Absolute bottle jobs. We're going to be starting on inters. What's the point in the wet tyres?

[Waffdon]

An hour delay. Jesus. What is the point.

[Serj]

An hour? Is there some major rain shower forecast for the near future? Otherwise that seems quite long since the track is drying already.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Are these massive heavy cars just too nervous in the damp? Bring back the rocket boxes of the 90s.

Also, Americans just don't get wet racing. Almost like a totally different category. Doesn't have to be, and shouldn't be, fair or necessarily as safe in the conventional way, as the cars are travelling at fuck all speed.

Presumably Bianchi's in their heads.

[7om]

Instead of having people with fucking broomsticks clearing the water, stick the whole grid under a safety car for 8-10 laps and that will do a far better job of clearing standing water.

Once again, they’ve made fools of themselves by refusing to contemplate racing in the rain. Fucking shit.

[Shindig]

Unless they think porpoising plus aquaplaning is a perfect storm?

[Disco]

Are these massive heavy cars just too nervous in the damp? Bring back the rocket boxes of the 90s.

Also, Americans just don't get wet racing. Almost like a totally different category. Doesn't have to be, and shouldn't be, fair or necessarily as safe in the conventional way, as the cars are travelling at fuck all speed.

Presumably Bianchi's in their heads.

If you'd watched the wet NASCAR race from COTA last year then you'd see why, absolute carnage.

[niko_cee]

Seems like they have seen some sort of sense and not started the 3 hour countdown until the race is scheduled to start.

[Gray Fox]

Thank fuck for that. Natalie Pinkham on a bike might yet not be the best thing of the race.

[Disco]

He is another iteration of every Japanese driver that has ever been in F1, quick at times and then an idiot. Which is strange, because as a people they've always struck me as having the studied intensity to have produced a champion by now.

I've been watching F2 of late to try and see if they have anyone. Mostly crap. Mick Doohan's boy, and the French lad beginning with P. Those could do F1.

Iwasa is much the same, one week he drives through the entire field then disappears into 12th the next. Hauger was supposed to be the next great thing, walked F3 last year but hasn't done a lot in F2. I'm still banking on Victor Martins being the next dishy frenchman to make the step up.

[Pepe]

Pickup truck with a massive turbine on the back to dry the track. American racing has been doing this since like the 80s.

[Shindig]

The W Series' continuation is in doubt after it announced financial difficulties. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/motorsport/63108136)

Whelp.

[niko_cee]

Natalie Pinkham on a bike might yet not be the best thing of the race.

Pretty hard to top. Going to need to be a Ferrari pincer type crash or something.

[John Arne]

Is the Singapore grand Prix usually held at this time of the year (wet/monsoon season)?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Think it's usually a couple of weeks earlier.

[Ben]

Pickup truck with a massive turbine on the back to dry the track. American racing has been doing this since like the 80s.

Why do you want to dry the track though? The racing window is 8-10pm and if it's raining, it's raining. They have plenty of wet tyres but seem scared to start a race on them.

[Waffdon]

Leclerc and Perez both to crash and Max to win and become champion. NAP.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Not sure why Hamilton is pissed off at not being able to go out on wets, it's far too dry in parts for them.

[Serj]

Not sure why Hamilton is pissed off at not being able to go out on wets, it's far too dry in parts for them.

Wurz said that the wet tyres have been surprisingly good this weekend in conditions when you'd expect the inters to be the favored choice. He was surprised nobody chose them for the race.

[Adramelch]

That was Latifi 101. One of his specials.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Latifi is such a mong.

[Jimmy Floyd]

How has this guy persisted in the sport for three seasons?

[Gray Fox]

Lots of Canadian dollars.

[Disco]

Is he still 21st in a field of 20 drivers?

[Adramelch]

That he is, much like Mazepin last season.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Looks like Sainz has been given some other car accidentally painted up as a Ferrari.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Bold from Russell to go on Mediums, looks too soon.

[Adramelch]

Looks like Sainz has been given some other car accidentally painted up as a Ferrari.

He's been very underwhelming this whole season it feels to me.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Albon :(

Stunned he was able to even race mind, he must have been in a lot of pain.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Last few laps have been chaos.

[Waffdon]

Norris is winning this

[Gray Fox]

Max by a few seconds I think.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Super lucky not to hit anyone/get hit by someone.

[Adramelch]

Did Russell just complain that Schumacher is defending too much or what?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Sounds like they're going to give it the Charles after the race.

[Disco]

How is this win better than his first one, what on earth are they smoking?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Can't decide if that was a very dull good race, or a very good dull race. About 3 laps of total action in the top 6, but Max/Lewis/the midfield were all over the show.

[Disco]

Shit for a wet race, not bad for a mickey mouse street race.

[Shindig]

It really dragged until they switched to slicks.

[7om]

Not a bad race. Was interesting to see Max fuck up repeatedly and come through the field.

[Ben]

Even with 12 safety cars or whatever, it was pretty shite. The pack kept getting reset and everyone restored the previous gaps within a few laps. Had a bit of a nightmare recording it because it went long and it was hardly worth the effort.

[niko_cee]

Yeah, I was trying to watch it on delay but it kept just failing and making me fast forward to the live coverage, which I suppose was a small mercy as it was an awful race.

The lady on the bike definitely the highlight.

[Waffdon]

Lando Norris miles clear in the standings behind the 3 main constructors. I pray he finally gets a decent car. Sochi still hurts to this day

[Disco]

How do we feel about the timing of the Perez safety car penalty? A decision that could easily have been made during the race and the penalty applied at a pit stop which possibly changes the result, especially given that the gaps he was leaving were absolutely on purpose and this sort of thing does have safety implications. It's something that both has and hasn't been punished over the years but I'm not sure how much I like them leaving the decision until they knew what impact it would have on the result.

[Giggles]

Have they announced anything?

[Jimmy Floyd]

As we found at at Abu Dhabi last year, they decide these things based on how it impacts 'the show'. After Belgium 2008 (or whatever year it was Hamilton got done) I don't think they've changed a winner post chequered flag.

Brazil 2003 very much the GOAT for such things.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Have they announced anything?

5 second penalty for Perez.

[Disco]

Two offences, one got a 5 second penalty and the other a reprimand.

[Ben]

If the gap was less than 5 seconds, 100% no penalty. Absolute bottle job.

[7om]

If the gap was less than 5 seconds, 100% no penalty. Absolute bottle job.

This is it. They’ve taken the easy route by penalising him but doing nothing to affect the result. Was it Anthony Davidson who said that Vettel got a punishment for something similar many years ago and got a drive through penalty? I’d care more if the championships were close but Red Bull have won 13/17 races this season.

[Shindig]

Hold on. Both radio crews knew the 5-second penalty was likely. Perez put his foot down, Charles had nowt to give. Why are moaning after the fact?

[phonics]

Everything’s a conspiracy theory. It’s not a 10 second penalty.

[Giggles]

Everything’s a conspiracy theory. It’s not a 10 second penalty.

It was two infringements.

[Disco]

The penalty itself is immaterial, it's the timing that makes them look like a bunch of race fixing cowardy custards.

[Gray Fox]

It's very odd indeed they didn't deal with it in the race.

The ten car lengths one I'm not too fussed on as it wasn't egregious and he could make the argument that it was hard to judge from cockpit level.

However the gesturing and pressuring the safety car they were only this season expressly told not to do.

[Disco]

It wasn't by accident, he was about 5 corners back from the SC because that's exactly where he wanted to be. Not that much of an issue for me as long as the speed is sensible/consistent but lets not pretend it was anything other than completely intentional.

[Waffdon]

Cheeky 6am start this weekend in Japan.

[Pepe]

Speaking of start times: Do races begin later nowadays? I remember when I was young I always had to wake up at 6 am or so to watch the races, which was really tough after a night out. Now I seem to catch many of them at more reasonable times, say 9 or 10 am.

[Ben]

It's just there's a lot more night races now (they even moved the Australian Grand Prix to dusk local time) so even on the other side of the world, it's in daylight hours for Europe.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They all used to be 1pm UK time (the European ones) and they're now often 2pm.

[Ben]

I just saw there was a total of 16 on-track overtakes in the Singapore GP: Verstappen 10, Russell 5, Magnussen 1.

[thommo]

I just saw there was a total of 16 on-track overtakes in the Singapore GP: Verstappen 10, Russell 5, Magnussen 1.

I presume that doesn't count any of the first-lap stuff then?

[Jimmy Floyd]

The reason for such races can be seen in the geometric aero-spray that comes up behind the cars on a damp track. TAKE THE FUCKING DOWNFORCE OFF

[7om]

The reason for such races can be seen in the geometric aero-spray that comes up behind the cars on a damp track. TAKE THE FUCKING DOWNFORCE OFF

I've watched a few onboards of the old Prost and Minardi cars recently. Good God. Watching Jean Alesi trying to control the old blue Prost is a thing of beauty. There is absolutely zero rear grip and its so fun to watch.

https://youtu.be/lw5MoNXbtyo

https://youtu.be/4VgALraIawA (Minardi :drool:)

[Ben]

I know nostalgia has a tendency to make the glasses somewhat rose tinted, but in the case of F1, it's absolutely the case that it used to be a lot better.

[Jimmy Floyd]

As an F1 history nerd I've thought for a while about what the exact moment was when it went to shit, and I think it was when they redesigned Hockenheim in 2002. Nothing better symbolises the move from it being a mad racing series where insanely talented people design and then drive rocket ships on wheels that hurtle off into the terrain, to being what it is now, a sanitised, homogenised and highly-controlled TV entertainment spectacle.

When they get rid of Monaco will be the last nail in the coffin. It might be 'dull' but it's the last vestige of the madcap insanity that brought the sport into existence. Fuck DRS.

[Ben]

They overhauled the TV graphics in 2004 so that's a good symbolic crossover, but I did enjoy 2005 a lot. 2006 saw the 2.4L V8 come in and that was that.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I also thought about the points system changing in 2003, but if cars are going to be reliable then you have to hand out more points really.

The 'Alonso is a cunt' era was pretty good, since then it's been pretty mind-numbing, albeit softened for me being a Hamilton sympathiser.

[Shindig]

Honestly, if the old regs were kept, this year would've been magic.

[Disco]

I particularly enjoyed this bit of double-speak from the post race statements:



Although the track was wet in parts, we do not accept that the conditions were such as to make it impossible or dangerous for PER to have maintained the required less than 10 car length gap. Nevertheless, we took into account the wet conditions and the difficulties highlighted
by PER as mitigatory circumstances for this incident.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Has Ron Dennis taken over as chief steward?

[Giggles]

I’ve no recollection of years but the one thing I remember about when I enjoyed it the best was the era when the cars looked really narrow and the slicks had the straight threads in them. Or part of that era anyway, however long it lasted.

[Disco]

98-07 that would be.

I like most motorsport so there's an extent to which I will always enjoy F1 and every era has it's shitty aspects but I think the advent of giant heavy cars is potentially the worst thing to happen to the sport (deaths etc notwithstanding).

[Shindig]

Yeah, there's always something to admire about F1, even if it's just the weird tech and workarounds. I'm with you on the chunky cars, though. They have just about enough room to race and, whilst they're faster than the 2007 lot, they don't look it.

[Ben]

The camera angles have a lot to answer for with regards to making the cars look slow. They deliberately use shots to maximise sponsor exposure as opposed to making the cars look fast.

[Jimmy Floyd]

God knows crypto.com and Aramco need all the help they can get.

[Shindig]

Are you saying we should hire Kevin Dunn and give him license to crash zoom whatever he wants? Also, whilst I'm not a big proponent of bringing back V10s, you heard them a mile off :drool:

[Gray Fox]

For some reason as well they seem to be going down the SUSTAINABILITY route. As we have jets fly over during all national anthems...

[phonics]

For some reason as well they seem to be going down the SUSTAINABILITY route. As we have jets fly over during all national anthems...

Because that's where the next step of technological innovation is. The cars have been out of step with what manucaturers want out of road cars this entire generation. They want to get back to it.

[Ben]

Honda branding back on the Red Bulls from this week.

[7om]

Isn’t it Red Bull Powertrains now or was that just a name-only thing?

[Ben]

Pretty much name only. Honda officially ended the program but handed over all the intellectual property and staff.

This might be just a one time thing so the Honda name is finally actually on the car when their engine wins the championship.

[Disco]

Red Bull are acting as if they've realised they can't run the engine division themselves and are exploring every avenue to get someone to do it better than they can. The Porsche deal fell through and now they're doing their best to convince Honda to re-commit to the program by putting their badge back on a winning car.

[Ben]

If it was that easy then more teams would have done it. Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault have decades of experience. But we're talking Helmut Marko and Christian Horner here so fuck knows.

Unless they think they can get the FIA to tone down the rules and complexity around engines for 2026 onwards by making such a song and dance about it.

[Shindig]

Red Bull Renaults
Austin Martin Renaults.

That's the future we're heading into. I know Lance Stroll wants them as a works operation but there's no chance they build their own engines.

[Jimmy Floyd]

People always say you can't win a championship with a customer engine, but Red Bull did that before with Renault and could do it again. Alpeen are run by useless French idiots so will never do anything even with their own supply (the last French-run car to win a title was in 1969, I think - and I know it's Enstone but the engines and the ultimate money are French).

It's McLaren I wonder about. Absolutely zero chance they win again while the silver arrows are in town, unless they find some Newey-type genius to blow everyone off the grid for one season.

[Disco]

Red Bull were the de facto Renault works team for that whole run though, and as soon as Renault came back they got all pissy and it went to shit.

[Jimmy Floyd]

2010-11 Renault were there and came 5th both times.

[Disco]

2011 they were Lotus but I'll give you 2010, I bet they tried real hard that year too.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Latifi's shite credentials are well known by now, but him managing to take a wrong turning and get lost at Suzuka during free practice this morning really elevates him to the Taki Inoue / Jean-Denis Deletraz level of comedy backmarker, I feel.

[Ben]

Yeah I saw that. :D

"Something didn't feel right" you're not kidding anybody mate.

[SincereTheRebel]

He got lost :D

[John Arne]

For the 2nd time in 3 seasons, Latifi is on track to finish 21st in a 20 car championship

[Waffdon]

Pierre Gasly joining Alpine next year according to RL’s mate.

Hopefully he gets back to form with a decent car there.

[Jimmy Floyd]

French superteam, if only somebody had tried this before.

[Gray Fox]

I can’t see what could possibly go wrong.

[Giggles]

I like Gasly. Hope he does well.

[Disco]

Gasly / Ocon at Alpen is perhaps the most 'almost good' line up imaginable. Also a possibility of Magunssen / Hulkenberg at Haas, roll on all the jokes about balls and podiums.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Done my research, there have been 8 previous attempts at a French superteam (which I'm defining as French constructor, French engine and two French drivers). The golden age of the concept was 1981, when TWO such teams came 3rd and 4th in the championship, using no fewer than 6 French drivers between them during the season and nobody else.

Hasn't been tried since Ligier's pitiful 1994 effort - although Prost-Peugeot's comedy entries with Jean Alesi in the late 90s were pretty close. It's got to be worth another go.

[Disco]

Give me Erik Comas or give me death.

[Ben]

Gasly is official now. So De Vries to AlphaTauri has been announced.

Looking like Logan Sargeant to Williams (‘Murica!).

[thommo]

Gasly to Alpine is official, on a multi-year deal. It'll be interesting to see how he does outside of the Red Bull team, and how he gets on with Ocon, considering there's been some bad feeling in the past. Ocon loves to race his teammate hard so any contact or issue is sure to be heightened.

De Vries has been immediately announced as the replacement at AlphaTauri. Surely that's the shortest driver pairing an F1 team has ever had...

[Waffdon]

Of course Verstappen gets away with that incident with Norris in Q3

[Ben]

Put Latifi in that scenario and watch how the reaction and punishment is different.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Has Verstappen ever been penalised for anything?

[Gray Fox]

Mercedes: Hamilton and Russel
Red Bull: Verstappen and Perez
Ferrari: Leclerc and Sainz
McLaren: Norris and Piastri
Alpine: Gasly and Ocon
AlphaTauri: Tsunoda and De Vries
Alfa Romeo: Bottas and Zhou
Aston Martin: Alonso and Strulovic
Williams: Albon
Haas: Magnussen

I think those are all of the confirmed drivers for next year. Tough choice for Ricciardo. Do you stay knowing you'll likely be a backmarker, or do you go off to pastures new.
I heard Hulkenbergs name popping up but he's 35 now. Why would you not put Drugovich or Sargeant in your car instead?

[Shindig]

Has Verstappen ever been penalised for anything?

The rear wing touch in Interlagos.

[thommo]

I thought Max was sure to get a penalty for impending Norris, but looking back a few years it seems that a reprimand is the standard punishment for an incident like this. Hamilton did almost exactly the same thing to Sirotkin at Interlagos in 2018 and was reprimanded.


https://youtu.be/jNEgHkMYAWM

[Ben]

Haas have pretty much said they won’t go with a rookie so it’s either Mick, Hülkenberg or Italian Jesus.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Two of whom (sorry Mick) will do a much better job than a random rookie.

They should make F2 into a more meaningful second tier, some spec joke with reverse grids is not helpful really.

[Shindig]

I think the driver academies are the problem, really. It used to be exciting to see teenagers make it to the grid. Now it's all so ordinary and there's far too many of them. You can't really focus on young talents when there's six of them in a programme all fighting for scraps.

[thommo]

Big aquaplaning from Sainz (mainly because no one wants to use the full wets) and we've had a red flag for a while now.

Gasly had the shock of his life...

1578981621621231616

Was under the safety car but that's not acceptable, especially as this is where it happened to Bianchi in 2014.

[SincereTheRebel]

Get them out there doing laps behind the safety car you newbs

[Shindig]

28 laps? Glad I slept through this.

[Shindig]

And now the FIA are awarding full points, making Verstappen champion. That's .... not that usually works.

[thommo]

It is actually. Regulations state if a race is red flagged and unable to resume, points change depending on distance run. If the race is able to resume and turns into a timed race, the points are full as usual. Otherwise Singapore last week would have been 75% points as they didn't reach full race distance there.

Edit: I tell a lie, Singapore would have been full points as they went over 75% distance. Point stands though.

[Shindig]

Fair enough. But I also think 'running to time' is a bit fudged because some races they keep the clock running (like today) and others they don't (Canada 2011).

[thommo]

I think the 3 hour limit was brought in specifically because of that Canada race. Lasted about 4 and a half hours didn't it?

Doing a little digging - a 4 hour limit was brought in in 2012, and that was shortened to 3 hours before the 2021 season.

[Waffdon]

Apparently Verstappen was confirmed Champion. Ah well, same again the next five years unless he kills himself.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I wouldn't be so sure. The balance of power can change, car-wise.

[Shindig]

Certainly if Red Bull have to find a new engine supplier.

[Giggles]

Thankfully he has a championship that Sky can’t crib (much) about for the next year.

Why was it on so early? Is it a big enough race that they can just say fuck your and your European viewers.