Climate Change

[Manc]

Just how badly have we fucked the planet? I want scientific reports, twitter threads, the lot.

[Kikó]

Very.

1419706593764020225?s=19

[Disco]

We haven't fucked the planet at all, barely scratched the surface in fact. Bits of the climate are looking pretty ropey but that only affects the people living on the surface.

[Yevrah]

Watch the Attenborough documentary on Netflix Manc, it explains all you need to know.

The tldw is that we're fucking the planet for us to live on as a species, but we're not yet past the point of no return and it's debatable when that will be. My view is we'll absolutely hit it at some point and the Earth will be a horrible place to live for humans, but other stuff will still be here.

[Kikó]

Stuff like this is really cool though: https://www.engadget.com/magnetized-concrete-could-charge-your-ev-while-you-drive-041225378.html

The transformation into better, newer, greener solutions could finally make the world like tomorrow's world.

[Yevrah]

Well, it will for the countries that employ it but it'll matter little when China and India are still pumping out as much crap as they both do. We're fucked. Well, I say we, those in our age group will be dead before this really all hits home.

[Disco]

You'd think the richer bits of the world will be able to Malthus their way out of it a bit but the rest are fucked.

[Manc]

Watch the Attenborough documentary on Netflix Manc, it explains all you need to know.

Added to the list.

In terms of the knock-on effect on the weather system. How frequently are these freak incidents (flooding in Germany as an example) likely to occur?

[Yevrah]

Added to the list.

In terms of the knock-on effect on the weather system. How frequently are these freak incidents (flooding in Germany as an example) likely to occur?

I'm only guessing here, but given the weatherman can't tell me what's going to happen tomorrow with any degree of accuracy, presumably no one knows.

[Giggles]

If it was in real trouble then there would be real solutions rather than token monetisations. That’s about all I need to know.

[Yevrah]

You'd think the richer bits of the world will be able to Malthus their way out of it a bit but the rest are fucked.

Surely as we share the same eco-system, we're all fucked.

[Yevrah]

If it was in real trouble then there would be real solutions rather than token monetisations. That’s about all I need to know.

I thought that for a while too, years ago mind, but the reality of it is that there are no solutions other than the ones people don't want to take, because they mean drastically changing the way we live before we can actually see the problem, which no one is prepared to do.

Think of it like the Pandemic, if Boris had announced in January last year that he was shutting the borders immediately he'd have been lolled out of parliament.

[Yevrah]

And we could change how we live, but China and India will carry on regardless and I genuinely think people would rather live in no World than one where China are willingly given an advantage.

[Disco]

I think you'll find those with more money will do better than those without and if it gets to the point where it thins the population out a bit then 'we' will either learn our lesson (it's not like we don't already know how to stop the damage, we just don't want to) or we go around again.

And while we're here, the climate has nothing to do with how shit Michael Fish is.

[Yevrah]

I think you'll find those with more money will do better than those without

Yeah, course. I assume it will wipe a few billion out and Bezos types will build super structures in mountains to live in and stay relatively unscathed. It won't wipe us all out I don't think. The super rich will find a way to stay alive.

[Lewis]

Globally we are the super rich, so we will just wall off the brownlands and grow fat on the Siberian breadbasket.

[Pepe]

Just how badly have we fucked the planet? I want scientific reports, twitter threads, the lot.

Hard to tell. If you're really curious, check out the IPCC report. It is the source. The projections for 2100 seem... not all that bad to me? The mainstream notion is that we need drastic changes or we are fucked. Different people mean different things by "being fucked", but if you go by IPCC projections, then it is not clear what would be worse for humans living in 2100: climate change or some of the "drastic changes" bandied about.

[Pepe]

Globally we are the super rich, so we will just wall off the brownlands and grow fat on the Siberian breadbasket.

Unless "the brownlands" grow rich too, then they won't have to worry too much either.

[Yevrah]

So Pep, you don't think the atmosphere is going to become unbreathable? IIRC Attenborough seemed quite convinced it would.

[Pepe]

By 2100? No. Even the worst case scenarios in IPCC do not predict that. All models only go up to 2100, btw.

[Disco]

I think we'll start with some areas simply becoming uninhabitable, either because the climate makes it too hot/cold etc for it to be practical or because population pressure gives way to outright chaos (or more likely a blend of the two). Most of the rest of the world will probably carry on much as before, it's not like we haven't happily ignored famines that killed tens of millions of people on multiple occasions or decades long local conflicts that have done the same albeit on a smaller scale. Once the Chinese are on board and/or if we've managed to move away from oil as the solution to literally everything it might be possible to slow it down.

Oil is the big one for me, if we can find a decent source of energy that doesn't involve (finding, getting, moving, refining, selling, moving again and finally) burning the stuff then that's half the battle.

[Lewis]

The population projections for the parts of the world that currently struggle to sustain themselves is the bigger long-term concern. They will either tear themselves to pieces or get on the move.

[Pepe]

The population projections for the parts of the world that currently struggle to sustain themselves is the bigger long-term concern. They will either tear themselves to pieces or get on the move.

People always talk about how places like Bangladesh will get too hot and will be underwater and all of that because of climate change. Well, the place is already a shithole, climate change or not, and will only get worse if, as you say, the population keeps growing at the same rate and they don't get their act together. Now, if they were to do a China and become rich, then the place would become more bearable (AC is pretty nice) and the population increase would slow down, as it often does in richer countries.

[Disco]

Sounds a lot like competition, lets not risk it.

[Shindig]

Yeah, I know the recent floods in NYC got people on twitter bemoaning climate change but it glosses over the more obvious problem of shit infrastructure. The North River tunnels are still fucked from Hurricane Sandy.

[Kikó]

The issue we're seeing now is the feedback loops are accelerating events and causing faster and faster change (as mentioned in either thread, see the temperature rises in the Arctic circle which is 4-6 degrees at times more than normal) .

There's not going to be a safe space if eco systems collapse and the natural order goes with it. And I disagree on China, I actually think they have the government to be the boldest (they've promised a lot recently but their coal addiction says otherwise).

[Yevrah]

This is what Dickie says in it:

If we continue on our current course the damage that has been the defining feature of my lifetime will be eclipsed by the damage coming in the next. Science predicts that were I born today I would be witness to the following:

2030s: Amazon rainforest degrades into a dry savannah, altering the global water cycle. Arctic becomes ice free in the summer. Without the white ice cap less of the sun's energy is reflected back out to space and the speed of global warming increases.
2040s: Throughout the North frozen soils thaw releasing methane, accelerating the rate of climate change dramatically.
2050s: Oceans heat and becomes more acidic, killing coral reefs and fish populations crash
2080s: Global food production enters a crisis as soils become exhausted by overuse. Pollenating insects disappear and the weather is more and more unpredictable
2100s: Our planet becomes 4 degrees warmer. Large parts of the Earth are now uninhabitable. A 6th mass extinction event is well underway.

Mis-remembered the bit about the atmosphere being unbreathable, it's not in there from his mouth, just a lot of imagery instead that leaves that impression on you.

[Lewis]

People always talk about how places like Bangladesh will get too hot and will be underwater and all of that because of climate change. Well, the place is already a shithole, climate change or not, and will only get worse if, as you say, the population keeps growing at the same rate and they don't get their act together. Now, if they were to do a China and become rich, then the place would become more bearable (AC is pretty nice) and the population increase would slow down, as it often does in richer countries.

Has anywhere ever got rich enough quickly enough to absorb population growth on the sort of scale predicted for 2100? China had to suppress its population to the tune of about half a billion fewer people being born, and industrial revolution Europe could flush its excess populations overseas in numbers that would need the contemporary United States to be taking tens of millions a year in. How is Egypt going to provide opportunities for its population doubling when it can't do so for its existing one unless half of it floods and becomes arable?

[Yevrah]

He also says that each of those steps should be viewed like doors that once opened, cannot be closed.

[Spikey M]

Has anywhere ever got rich enough quickly enough to absorb population growth on the sort of scale predicted for 2100? China had to suppress its population to the tune of about half a billion fewer people being born, and industrial revolution Europe could flush its excess populations overseas in numbers that would need the contemporary United States to be taking tens of millions a year in. How is Egypt going to provide opportunities for its population doubling when it can't do so for its existing one unless half of it floods and becomes arable?

War. Loads of juicy wars. Especially when food and water supplies are getting stretched. :drool:

[Pepe]

If anyone is willing, I would bet some money that the Arctic will not be ice free in the summer by 2030. Any takers?

[Pepe]

Even RCP8.5 (IPCC's worst case scenario) only predicts that happening by 2050, with some big-ass uncertainty bars.

[Yevrah]

If anyone is willing, I would bet some money that the Arctic will not be ice free in the summer by 2030. Any takers?

2030s so you've got until 31st December 2039 presumably for him to be wrong. What's your take on the rest of it and the doors being opened not being able to be closed stuff?

[Kikó]

If anyone is willing, I would bet some money that the Arctic will not be ice free in the summer by 2030. Any takers?

Probably highly unlikely all year round but a lot more days than 20 years prior.

[Giggles]

2030: Giggles may not be alive any more.
2040: Giggles probably won’t be alive any more.
Some time later: world burns :sorry:

[Pepe]

2030s so you've got until 31st December 2039 presumably for him to be wrong. What's your take on the rest of it and the doors being opened not being able to be closed stuff?

Ok, I will bet that by the summer of 2039, the arctic will not be ice-free.

[Queenslander]

We will keep digging all the coal, iron ore etc out of the ground for rest of time thank you very much.

[Pepe]

What's your take on the rest of it and the doors being opened not being able to be closed stuff?

Most of it seems to assume worst case scenarios (which is not the path currently being followed, btw) and takes a lot of positive feedback loops to be a certainty, which THE SCIENCE has actually very little information about. The 4 degrees by 2100 is IPCC's worst case scenario, which assumes zero mitigation. We are already doing some mitigation, so it is a very unlikely scenario. That is just being alarmist, which might be effective to get people on the "let's do something" side, but it is not very honest. Anyone honest would base their predictions on IPCC's most likely scenario, not on the worst one (how would you feel if someone told you everything is going to be fine based on the best case scenario?)

[Pepe]

Has anywhere ever got rich enough quickly enough to absorb population growth on the sort of scale predicted for 2100? China had to suppress its population to the tune of about half a billion fewer people being born, and industrial revolution Europe could flush its excess populations overseas in numbers that would need the contemporary United States to be taking tens of millions a year in. How is Egypt going to provide opportunities for its population doubling when it can't do so for its existing one unless half of it floods and becomes arable?

Well, hopefully the population growth slows down too. I am sure everyone a hundred years ago predicted Europe's population to continue increasing wildly, yet here we are.

[Manc]

Enlightening stuff, Pepe.

How old is Giggles that he isn't seeing 2040?

[niko_cee]

On the subject of Attenborough I was speaking to someone who was a producer or something on the Blue Planet series (I think) recently and found the fact that all of his stuff is very tightly scripted, and he has pretty much zero input into it, somewhat of a let down. He's basically just Ron Burgundy.

[Shindig]

The animals need narratives.

[Kikó]

Most of it seems to assume worst case scenarios (which is not the path currently being followed, btw) and takes a lot of positive feedback loops to be a certainty, which THE SCIENCE has actually very little information about. The 4 degrees by 2100 is IPCC's worst case scenario, which assumes zero mitigation. We are already doing some mitigation, so it is a very unlikely scenario. That is just being alarmist, which might be effective to get people on the "let's do something" side, but it is not very honest. Anyone honest would base their predictions on IPCC's most likely scenario, not on the worst one (how would you feel if someone told you everything is going to be fine based on the best case scenario?)

What's your involvement in all of this Pepe? I am heartened by your more brightened viewpoint on this (but then I'm in climate doom on twitter :-))

[Pepe]

I got no involvement. I am just interested.

My research is mainly in combustion science though, and I teach a course on internal combustion engines, so if you want to discredit everything I ever say on the matter, just say that I am obviously biased because I want to keep my field alive. My latest work was on the manufacturing of battery cathode materials, so I got both bases covered, but still.

[Spikey M]

Part of the Arctic Circle is current on fire, which is fun.

1422867901724381186?s=19

[Kikó]

Siberia has been on fire for a large part of the last 18 months.

[Ian]

I bet it's the pesky gays wot dun it.

[Don]

It's just what they deserve for not raising their kids on a diet of RuPaul's Drag Race.

[Disco]

It's also why you're paying through the nose for stuff like plywood at the moment.

[Bernanke]

Ash from forest fires covering snow making it absorb more heat and melt faster is a real big brain global warming power move.

[Kikó]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/05/climate-crisis-scientists-spot-warning-signs-of-gulf-stream-collapse?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Collapsing gulf stream. Hurrah!

[Giggles]

How many taxes and lithium batteries will it take to fix that one?

[Shindig]

I really, really would like some cool science and technology to come out of this.

[Pepe]

How many taxes and lithium batteries will it take to fix that one?

All of them.


It is not known what level of CO2 would trigger an AMOC collapse, he said. “So the only thing to do is keep emissions as low as possible. The likelihood of this extremely high-impact event happening increases with every gram of CO2 that we put into the atmosphere”.

[Spikey M]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/05/climate-crisis-scientists-spot-warning-signs-of-gulf-stream-collapse?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Collapsing gulf stream. Hurrah!

White Christmases :drool:

[Queenslander]

Is this your normal wildfire season in Greece ATM?

I'm starting to think we might be in for a brutal bushfire season.

[Kikó]

According to the news, it's been hotter and drier but also mixed in with fire fighter cuts in investment. Seems a solid choice.

[Queenslander]

Sounds pretty Greek.


I also saw Turkey on the news that isn't normal for them surely.

[Boydy]

BBC News - Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58130705

Great.

[Yevrah]

Pepe we need some real talk son.

[Jimmy Floyd]

We'll sort it out somehow. We always do.

[Yevrah]

We'll sort it out somehow. We always do.

We've been here for about 200,000 years, just over 0.1% of the time the dinosaurs were around for. We're a fly on an elephant's arse in the grand scheme of things.

[Kikó]

I don't think we're going to do enough this time because there are enough people invested in the destruction of the planet for it to change.

It's not all doom and gloom though, it'll be our kids who will have to eat each other.

[Queenslander]

It won't change down here anytime soon.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I don't think we're going to do enough this time because there are enough people invested in the destruction of the planet for it to change.

And at some point there will be a tipping point at which those same interests shift towards the non-destruction of the planet. It might not be yet, but it'll happen.

[Kikó]

We're already past a number of tipping points. The reaction will be too slow as it inconveniences our consumerist society.

[Spikey M]

We won't "sort it" until shit is sufficiently bad and it'll be too late then. There's no appetite to do so in the countries that could make a big difference. Especially the BRIC nations.

China have just discovered a brand new source of coal, they're building new Coal powerplants at something like one a month and they're planning to ramp that up.

[Yevrah]

We're already past a number of tipping points. The reaction will be too slow as it inconveniences our consumerist society.

Hang on, am I mis-remembering when I was making this exact point and you were disagreeing? If I'm not, welcome aboard.

If there is a solution to this it's one we're not currently employing. What we are currently employing is going to make nowhere near enough difference as none of us are prepared to sacrifice to the extent needed.

[Yevrah]

Easter Island is a brilliant example of what's happening to the overall planet now. They wanted shiny things so they chopped all of the tress down and made the place uninhabitable for humans.

Some people disagree that's how it went down, but if they're wrong then that's all you need to look at to know why we will never change this. Musk, Bezos, Gates etc. need to get together to work out how you put back or take away all of the shit we do need/don't need in the environment or else we're fucked. Governments won't sort it as they can never see past the current election cycle and regular humans (like you and me) won't as we're selfish fucks.

[niko_cee]

Problem for Musk, Bezos and Gates (et al) is the thing we don't need is them, so lol at the idea of them being the solution and the rest of us being too selfish.

[Spikey M]

Exactly what I was going to say. Tesla atleast has the illusion of being green I guess (it really isn't), but the Billionaires now fucking about in Space are doing so purely because we keep buying their largely unnecessary products.

[Kikó]

We won't "sort it" until shit is sufficiently bad and it'll be too late then. There's no appetite to do so in the countries that could make a big difference. Especially the BRIC nations.

China have just discovered a brand new source of coal, they're building new Coal powerplants at something like one a month and they're planning to ramp that up.

Clean coal though innit (roflmaocopter)

I do think China has the political structure to do the type of transformation required (and they have set bold target recently despite also then building coal plants).

The biggest issue is for us to disconnect gdp with growth.

[Kikó]

If the billionaires paid taxes, we could actually invest more into green technologies and retrofitting houses so they stop leaking heat.

edit: SwissRe's assessment:
https://www.swissre.com/media/news-releases/nr-20210422-economics-of-climate-change-risks.html


World economy set to lose up to 18% GDP from climate change if no action taken, reveals Swiss Re Institute's stress-test analysis
Article information and share options
Published on:22 Apr 2021, Zurich
Share
New Climate Economics Index stress-tests how climate change will impact 48 countries, representing 90% of world economy, and ranks their overall climate resilience

Expected global GDP impact by 2050 under different scenarios compared to a world without climate change:
-18% if no mitigating actions are taken (3.2°C increase);
-14% if some mitigating actions are taken (2.6°C increase);
-11% if further mitigating actions are taken (2°C increase);
-4% if Paris Agreement targets are met (below 2°C increase)

Economies in Asia would be hardest hit, with China at risk of losing nearly 24% of its GDP in a severe scenario, while the world’s biggest economy, the US, stands to lose close to 10%, and Europe almost 11%
Climate change poses the biggest long-term threat to the global economy. If no mitigating action is taken, global temperatures could rise by more than 3°C and the world economy could shrink by 18% in the next 30 years. But the impact can be lessened if decisive action is taken to meet the targets set in the Paris Agreement, Swiss Re Institute’s new Climate Economics Index shows. This will require more than what is pledged today; public and private sectors will play a crucial role in accelerating the transition to net zero.

Swiss Re Institute has conducted a stress test to examine how 48 economies would be impacted by the ongoing effects of climate change under four different temperature increase scenarios. As global warming makes the impact of weather-related natural disasters more severe, it can lead to substantial income and productivity losses over time. For example, rising sea levels result in loss of land that could have otherwise been used productively and heat stress can lead to crop failures. Emerging economies in equatorial regions would be most affected by rising temperatures.

Major economies could lose roughly 10% of GDP in 30 years
In a severe scenario of a 3.2°C temperature increase, China stands to lose almost one quarter of its GDP (24%) by mid-century. The US, Canada and the UK would all see around a 10% loss. Europe would suffer slightly more (11%), while economies such as Finland or Switzerland are less exposed (6%) than, for example, France or Greece (13%).

Thierry Léger, Group Chief Underwriting Officer and Chairman of Swiss Re Institute, said: “Climate risk affects every society, every company and every individual. By 2050, the world population will grow to almost 10 billion people, especially in regions most impacted by climate change. So, we must act now to mitigate the risks and to reach net-zero targets. Equally, as our recent biodiversity index shows, nature and ecosystem services provide huge economic benefits but are under intense threat. That’s why climate change and biodiversity loss are twin challenges that we need to tackle as a global community to maintain a healthy economy and a sustainable future.“

Climate Economics Index ranks countries’ resilience to climate change
Along with evaluating each country’s expected economic impact from climate risks, Swiss Re Institute also ranked each country on its vulnerability to extreme dry and wet weather conditions. In addition, it looked at the country’s capacity to cope with the effects of climate change. Put together, these findings generate a ranking of countries’ resilience to the impacts of climate change.

The ranking displays a similar view to the GDP impact analysis: Countries most negatively impacted are often the ones with fewest resources to adapt to and mitigate the effects of rising global temperatures. The most vulnerable countries in this context are Malaysia, Thailand, India, the Philippines and Indonesia. Advanced economies in the northern hemisphere are the least vulnerable, including the US, Canada, Switzerland and Germany.

Public and private sectors play a crucial role in accelerating climate action
Given the consequences highlighted in Swiss Re Institute’s analysis, the need for action is indisputable. Coordinated measures by the world’s largest carbon emitters are crucial to meet climate targets. The public and private sectors can facilitate and accelerate the transition, particularly regarding sustainable infrastructure investments that are vital to remain below a 2°C temperature increase. Given the long-term horizon of their liabilities and long-term capital to commit, institutional investors such as pension funds or insurance companies are also ideally positioned to play a strong role.

Jérôme Haegeli, Swiss Re’s Group Chief Economist, said: “Climate change is a systemic risk and can only be addressed globally. So far, too little is being done. Transparency and disclosure of embedded net-zero efforts by governments and the private sector alike are crucial. Only if public and private sectors pull together will the transition to a low-carbon economy be possible. Global cooperation to facilitate financial flows to vulnerable economies is essential. We have an opportunity to correct the course now and construct a world that will be greener, more sustainable and more resilient.

Our analysis shows the benefit of investing in a net-zero economy. For example, adding just 10% to the USD 6.3 trillion of annual global infrastructure investments would limit the average temperature increase to below 2°C. This is just a fraction of the loss in global GDP that we face if we don’t take appropriate action.“

Mitigating climate change requires a whole menu of measures. More carbon- pricing policies combined with incentives for nature-based and carbon-offsetting solutions are needed, as well as international convergence on taxonomy for green and sustainable investments. As part of financial reporting, institutions should regularly disclose how they plan to achieve the Paris Agreement and net-zero emission targets. Re/insurers also play a role in providing risk transfer capacity, risk knowledge and long-term investment, using their understanding of risk to help households, companies and societies mitigate and adapt to climate change.

Climate Economics Index: mid-of-century
The Climate Economics Index looks at which economies would be hardest hit, most exposed and best positioned to adapt to climate risk. It ranks countries based on: Expected economic impact from "chronic" climate risks linked to gradual temperature rises; the degree to which it is vulnerable to extreme weather events and severe hot/wet conditions; and a country's current adaptive capacity.

[Don]

If you cunts stopped buying air fryers and city break flights we wouldn't need to rely on a small band of men to survive.

[Yevrah]

Problem for Musk, Bezos and Gates (et al) is the thing we don't need is them, so lol at the idea of them being the solution and the rest of us being too selfish.

Yes, but get rid of them and someone else fills the void they leave and we're still in the same position. They are of course selfish too, but solving this problem would appeal to their God like complexes so they should really get on it.

NOTHING else is going to work. The fuzzy thinking around this really is outstanding. People are still fucking about thinking if we all do less of x and y we'll be able to do it. That won't happen and it's probably not enough anyway - we need a Bruce Willis drilling style nuclear solution here. Boffins, over to you.

[Yevrah]

If the billionaires paid taxes, we could actually invest more into green technologies and retrofitting houses so they stop leaking heat.

And this is the sort of shit I'm talking about, long term it won't scratch the surface.

Essentially we need to stop having (so many) children and ban air travel and that's only a starter for 10 that no one is going to do, so the solution has to be elsewhere.

[niko_cee]

I'm sure the boffins are working on it.

Next time I bump into this chap (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Chapman_(professor)) I'll ask him how it's going.

[Kikó]

The Drawdown Review has some suggestions which doesn't involve mental Bruce Willis type solutions. https://drawdown.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/TheDrawdownReview%E2%80%932020%E2%80%93Download.pd f

[Kikó]

And this is the sort of shit I'm talking about, long term it won't scratch the surface.

Essentially we need to stop having (so many) children and ban air travel and that's only a starter for 10 that no one is going to do, so the solution has to be elsewhere.

Buildings are a huge emission generator so yes it will scratch the surface (from that report ~6% of all emissions).

[Spikey M]

Any solution needs to be world wide in application and will be absolutely fucking horrific. Limited flight is the big one. No holidays (:cry:), eat local food, start fixing things instead of buying replacements, etc. I feel sick just thinking about it.

[Yevrah]

The Drawdown Review has some suggestions which doesn't involve mental Bruce Willis type solutions. https://drawdown.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/TheDrawdownReview%E2%80%932020%E2%80%93Download.pd f

A one hundred and four page PDF document? Yep, regular Joes are going to buy into that. Please tell me they have a tldr somewhere?

And 'Forest Protection' is one of their solutions. I mean, sweet Jesus.

[Yevrah]

Buildings are a huge emission generator so yes it will scratch the surface (from that report ~6% of all emissions).

We need to reduce them by 60%. Sixty. It is not going to happen.

[Spikey M]

They had "building machines that 'suck up' Carbon Dioxide" as a potential solution on the news earlier. Building machines is the problem dickheads, it's not the solution.

[Yevrah]

We're already past a number of tipping points. The reaction will be too slow as it inconveniences our consumerist society.

You had it right with this Kik's. I can only assume you're alarmed because you've realised you inadvertently agree with me. Come here. It's ok now.

[Yevrah]

They had "building machines that 'such up' Carbon Dioxide" as a potential solution on the news earlier. Building machines is the problem dickheads, it's not the solution.

But we're not going to stop building other machines, let alone get rid of the existing ones, are we? In which case that sort of thinking sounds bob on to me. I know nothing of whether that actually works, I'm Yevrah etc. but that's the type of road we need to go down.

[Boydy]

I might move to the hills and learn how to grow my own food in a few years time.

[Yevrah]

Actually, here's a question. I know nuclear power is BAD Mmmkay, but would that solve it? If so, what the dickens are we doing not going for that?

[Spikey M]

But we're not going to stop building other machines, let alone get rid of the existing ones, are we? In which case that sort of thinking sounds bob on to me. I know nothing of whether that actually works, I'm Yevrah etc. but that's the type of road we need to go down.

But that's what I mean. It's that thinking that got us in to this mess in the first place. We need to stop making shit.

It's obviously not going to happen, but it's what needs to happen if we actually want to solve this. Which I'm not sure we really do. Christ knows I still want to go on holiday.

[Yevrah]

I might move to the hills and learn how to grow my own food in a few years time.

It's funny, those survivalist types with their bunkers and practical skills are roundly mocked, but if any of them are still alive when the reckoning happens they'll be set for a while. I'd probably rather be dead personally, but if your lust for life is that strong, crack on.

[Kikó]

We need to reduce them by 60%. Sixty. It is not going to happen.

It's not a one or nothing. There are a number of improvements needed, buildings are one of them.

Nuclear power is one way to reduce the need for fossil fuel energy but aren't quickly built and have longer term disposal issues. Page 26 in that report shows where they play a part.

[Kikó]

But that's what I mean. It's that thinking that got us in to this mess in the first place. We need to stop making shit.

It's obviously not going to happen, but it's what needs to happen if we actually want to solve this. Which I'm not sure we really do. Christ knows I still want to go on holiday.

The circular economy is building some momentum as well: https://www.ellenmacarthurfoundation.org/explore/the-circular-economy-in-detail

It's the reuse that will allow for some consumerism to continue.

[Yevrah]

But that's what I mean. It's that thinking that got us in to this mess in the first place. We need to stop making shit.

It's not though, is it. We were building machines to make our lives better and not to save our environment. If machines can do the latter then that's a different motivation and one we should absolutely go for.



It's obviously not going to happen, but it's what needs to happen if we actually want to solve this. Which I'm not sure we really do. Christ knows I still want to go on holiday.

So it's obviously not going to happen but we need to piss about wasting years or decades we don't have trying, rather than thinking of a completely different approach and solution? Madness.

[Yevrah]

It's not a one or nothing. There are a number of improvements needed, buildings are one of them.

Nuclear power is one way to reduce the need for fossil fuel energy but aren't quickly built and have longer term disposal issues. Page 26 in that report shows where they play a part.

The report is pointless, because if it needs 104 pages of different stuff (let's say 60 with the worthless pictures removed) to come together, across the globe, in the next few years, it's failed before it's even started. This needs a solution you can write in one sentence.*

*Building/making/doing the solution might be infinitely more complicated, but that's fine.

[Kikó]

Maybe if you're dreadfully simple. The report is clearly not aimed at you.

[Spikey M]

So it's obviously not going to happen but we need to piss about wasting years or decades we don't have trying, rather than thinking of a completely different approach and solution? Madness.

No. I'm saying we're not going to solve the problem because we won't take the steps required. Instead, we're going to piss about building anti-C02 machines and Insulating lofts... while China builds Coal Powerplants.

It's all bollocks. It's the same as the Premier League players taking the knee. It achieves nothing but it allows the people in charge to pretend they're doing something.

The solution is to stop living the way we do currently and we won't do it.

[Yevrah]

Maybe if you're dreadfully simple. The report is clearly not aimed at you.

People are dreadfully simple, and we need to get billions of those people to do things differently if we're going to get out of this using the current plan, with no immediate motivation to do so. That you or those behind the report are incapable of comprehending this is one of the reasons why we are truly fucked.

[Yevrah]

No. I'm saying we're not going to solve the problem because we won't take the steps required. Instead, we're going to piss about building anti-C02 machines and Insulating lofts... while China builds Coal Powerplants.

It's all bollocks. It's the same as the Premier League players taking the knee. It achieves nothing but it allows the people in charge to pretend they're doing something.

The solution is to stop living the way we do currently and we won't do it.

I completely agree with all of that apart from the bit I've bolded. If we won't do it (I agree we won't) then it isn't a solution and we need to find one.

[Kikó]

The report is not aimed at Linda who works at Greggs. It's aimed at governmental agencies.

[Yevrah]

The report is not aimed at Linda who works at Greggs. It's aimed at governmental agencies.

Who have all singularly failed to bring about anything like enough change to this point. You know the definition of madness, right?

[Spikey M]

I completely agree with all of that apart from the bit I've bolded. If we won't do it (I agree we won't) then it isn't a solution and we need to find one.

There isn't a solution other than to stop doing it. It's like an Alcoholic trying to solve being an Alcoholic without giving up Alcohol.

[Kikó]

I honestly have no idea what you're arguing about or towards. There are climate solutions that are available that can help reduce the emissions we are omitting but the only way to do this is through governments implementing change globally.

[Yevrah]

It really is very simple.

We have a problem in that our environment is dying.
It is dying because we enjoy doing things that kill it.
We are not going to stop doing enough of the things that kill it, because we enjoy doing them.
Therefore the solution needs to be one that doesn't rely on not doing those things.

If that isn't the starting point at this stage, when we have what, 10-40 years left? We're just wasting time.

[Yevrah]

I honestly have no idea what you're arguing about or towards. There are climate solutions that are available that can help reduce the emissions we are omitting but the only way to do this is through governments implementing change globally.

Governments are not going to implement enough global change because people will vote them out if they do, so my point is that it's ridiculous to still be banging on about it at this stage.

[Kikó]

Retrofitting buildings doesn't stop people doing things.
Changing energy resources to renewable energy sources.
Improving the end to end flow of products (circular economies)
Improving grid efficiencies.
Improving agricultural practicies.

I mean read the fucking report.

[Yevrah]

Retrofitting buildings doesn't stop people doing things.
Changing energy resources to renewable energy sources.
Improving the end to end flow of products (circular economies)
Improving grid efficiencies.
Improving agricultural practicies.

I mean read the fucking report.

How does that get us to the 60%?

[Spikey M]

We're just wasting time.

My entire point in one sentence.

We're fucked. It's done.

[Yevrah]

My entire point in one sentence.

We're fucked. It's done.

I agree with you completely.

[Disco]

Actually, here's a question. I know nuclear power is BAD Mmmkay, but would that solve it? If so, what the dickens are we doing not going for that?

For the same reason it is seen as 'bad', people with vested interests in other fuels have successfully lobbied against it for decades.

[Shindig]

Imagine how many trees the Chinese could plant in a hurry.

[Limoutsonik]

Is this your normal wildfire season in Greece ATM?

I'm starting to think we might be in for a brutal bushfire season.

It is and it isn't. It doesn't help when we had temperatures of up to 46 degrees celsius for over a week,arsonists going about willy nilly,complete lack of forest control and planning,underfunded and under-equipped firefighting units and hard to reach mountainous areas that planes can't reach. It's a shit situation of epic proportions. On the plus side,there is nothing more to be burned now anyway so we were covered for the next couple of years.

[hfswjyr]

I agree with you completely.

Let's face it. You're much more interested in debating why things won't work, rather than actively trying to contribute to a solution.
And hence fulfilling your argument of why the solution won't work (because 'simple' people like you won't read it). You can't lose.

[Spikey M]

Yeah Yevrah, get back in the laboratory and sort it out.

[Manc]

I am enjoying the perspective this is bringing. It definitely takes the edge off knowing that at some point in the future we will all be consumed by a fire tornado.

[Spikey M]

I am enjoying the perspective this is bringing. It definitely takes the edge off knowing that at some point in the future we will all be consumed by a fire tornado.

Nah, it's still Britain. We'll just boil to death in flood water.

[Kikó]

Can you take your negativity to another thread? I want only why we can do this. I've thought about this for 20 years so I don't need any negative shit.

[Kikó]

There are some cool companies who I like who are trying to produce solutions for this:

https://orbitalmarine.com/

https://envopap.com/

https://www.seedrs.com/mootral

https://clim8invest.com/

[Spikey M]

Don't worry Keeks, it'll be too hot to care about anything soon.

[Kikó]

I've requested a subforum for positive climate change posts. BRB.

[Spikey M]

:D

[Foe]

Better be a good supply of sun cream or I’m absolutely fucked.

Burn like a bitch.

There’s no reason we can’t implement some of the solutions, but I totally agree it’ll need governments to force the population to do so via regulation. Will democracy enable that if it means your lower income citizens can’t afford cars, people are priced out from foreign holidays etc. Seems a political suicide.

[Yevrah]

Let's face it. You're much more interested in debating why things won't work, rather than actively trying to contribute to a solution.
And hence fulfilling your argument of why the solution won't work (because 'simple' people like you won't read it). You can't lose.

We're not teenagers anymore, so it has absolutely nothing to do with 'winning' or 'losing' (and it's utterly moronic of you to think so), but does have everything to do with realism and pragmatism, which is why I find it interesting.

The reality of the situation is this (from 2019 but we've had a Pandemic since then):


The majority of the carbon emission reduction pledges for 2030 that 184 countries made under the Paris Agreement aren’t nearly enough to keep global warming well below 3.6 degrees Fahrenheit (2 degrees Celsius). Some countries won’t achieve their pledges, and some of the world's largest carbon emitters will continue to increase their emissions, according to a panel of world-class climate scientists.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/nations-miss-paris-targets-climate-driven-weather-events-cost-billions

People who still think this approach will work are utterly deluded, so we need one that will.

[Pepe]

Pepe we need some real talk son.

My advice, if you are really interested, is to go over the IPCC report itself instead of reading articles about it. They always misrepresent things.


We'll sort it out somehow. We always do.

If by "it" you mean keeping the average temperature below the currently targeted threshold, then I do not think that we will. If by "it" you mean not disappearing within the next century or two, then I am with you.


Clean coal though innit (roflmaocopter)

If a new coal power plant is built, and that power plant is equipped with carbon capture technology so that no CO2 at all is released to the environment, then what is the problem in calling that "clean"?


The Drawdown Review has some suggestions which doesn't involve mental Bruce Willis type solutions. https://drawdown.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/TheDrawdownReview%E2%80%932020%E2%80%93Download.pd f

The book is interesting and comes with pretty pictures.


A one hundred and four page PDF document? Yep, regular Joes are going to buy into that. Please tell me they have a tldr somewhere?

And 'Forest Protection' is one of their solutions. I mean, sweet Jesus.

Don't forget women's education.


Limited flight is the big one.

It isn't that big. Commercial aviation contributes considerably less emissions than many people seem to believe.


They had "building machines that 'suck up' Carbon Dioxide" as a potential solution on the news earlier. Building machines is the problem dickheads, it's not the solution.

The only genuine methods to keeping the temperature from rising above the currently decided thresholds all involve either carbon capture or sun blocking via aerosols/space shields/whatever. Massive scale technological methods. "Decreasing our consumerism" or whatever will never come even remotely close to solving anything.


I might move to the hills and learn how to grow my own food in a few years time.

Make sure that you think ahead and choose a patch of land that will be fertile in the future, not necessarily today.


Actually, here's a question. I know nuclear power is BAD Mmmkay, but would that solve it? If so, what the dickens are we doing not going for that?

Would certainly help. Why don't we do it? If you're interested: https://rootsofprogress.org/devanney-on-the-nuclear-flop


The solution is to stop living the way we do currently and we won't do it.

Why would we do it? We went through tremendous pains to get to a place where 99% of the people on the planet are not subsistence farmers. I don't know about you, but I do not want my daughter to go back to being a subsistence farmer.

[Pepe]

The best part about Drawdown is that the solution with the biggest impact according to them (refrigerant management) is something that I bet no one has ever heard being discussed. Simply not as sexy as wind turbines, solar panels, and organic handbags.

[Shindig]

Is that effectively home freezer tech on a massive scale?

[Yevrah]

Pepe, you are really good at this stuff. :nodd:

[Pepe]

Is that effectively home freezer tech on a massive scale?

No.

There are more and more AC units being installed all over the world. In rich countries like the US, some ACs are really old. Anyway, as AC systems get old, they start leaking. Smaller window box units, you just throw away. Every AC has a refrigerant of sort. Turns out that most refrigerants are very, very strong greenhouse gases (if greenhouse gases were footballers, refrigerants would be Messi, while CO2 would be a five year old with no legs), so preventing them from ending in the atmosphere is extremely important.

[Kikó]

No.

There are more and more AC units being installed all over the world. In rich countries like the US, some ACs are really old. Anyway, as AC systems get old, they start leaking. Smaller window box units, you just throw away. Every AC has a refrigerant of sort. Turns out that most refrigerants are very, very strong greenhouse gases (if greenhouse gases were footballers, refrigerants would be Messi, while CO2 would be a five year old with no legs), so preventing them from ending in the atmosphere is extremely important.

I saw a cool company trying to solve for this the other day. Article here https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2021/07/21/a-new-green-air-conditioning-system-manages-without-nasty-gases

[Spikey M]

I don't know about you, but I do not want my daughter to go back to being a subsistence farmer.

She's half French lad. Risky move.

[Disco]

A decent start would be to go back to central AC systems rather than individual ones for each unit/apartment.

[Pepe]

I saw a com company trying to solve for this the other day. Article here https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2021/07/21/a-new-green-air-conditioning-system-manages-without-nasty-gases

Having checked the company out, they are just a shape memory alloy manufacturer, which they claim could be used for many things, including cooling units. They do not build ACs or anything of the sort. Between them claiming their technology is useful and someone actually building a cooling system using a SMA is a big step, but we'll see. There are tons of really interesting technologies out there, but going from new technology with high potential to actual product on the market tends to be a massive hurdle.

I agree with your overall point that solutions for a more sustainable world are out there though. As with COVID, however, goalposts will continuously move and we will be told that we need radical change and we need it TODAY no matter what.

[Pepe]

She's half French lad. Risky move.

Half French, half Mexican, all American. :uhoh:

[Spikey M]

Half French, half Mexican, all American. :uhoh:

Ok, now she just sounds like a wrestler. :cool:

[Kikó]

Having checked the company out, they are just a shape memory alloy manufacturer, which they claim could be used for many things, including cooling units. They do not build ACs or anything of the sort. Between them claiming their technology is useful and someone actually building a cooling system using a SMA is a big step, but we'll see. There are tons of really interesting technologies out there, but going from new technology with high potential to actual product on the market tends to be a massive hurdle.

I agree with your overall point that solutions for a more sustainable world are out there though. As with COVID, however, goalposts will continuously move and we will be told that we need radical change and we need it TODAY no matter what.

Yep, the owner of the company is more interested in commercialising the material rather than specifically targeting AC but I guess it's pretty cool to see a use case.

https://www.economist.com/img/b/400/561/90/sites/default/files/20210724_STC111_0.png


I still think Chyyyna are the key to this. If they can force through the types of changes needed, then others will follow suit.

[Shindig]

And we’ve seen how quick they can mobilise in a crisis. We’d have a second Amazon (forest) in no time. And then they’ll chop it for wood. :moop:

[Queenslander]

:cool:



.�� ��COAST CHOPPERS GO TO GREECE TO FIGHT FIRES����

Today Sunshine Coast company McDermott Aviation sent four water-bombing helicopters to Greece to help fight the terrible fires burning out of control there.

Two choppers were loaded on to a Russian Antonov aircraft carrier at Wellcamp Airport in Toowoomba. The carrier was then flying on to Perth to collect two more of the company's choppers before flying on to Sri Lanka and then Athens.

Simon McDermott said seven crew including pilots and engineers were also heading over in the Antonov.

He said before loading the choppers on to the aircraft his team would remove the head and blades of each helicopter. This will mean a relatively quick reassemble in Athens before the teams and their machines can do their bit to help out with the fires.
(Photo supplied McDermott Aviation)

https://www.facebook.com/112249372155178/posts/4314839058562834/

[Shindig]

Algeria's on fire as well.

[Baz]

Just popping in to say I received my certificate the other day for being a Carbon Literacy Champion. :baz:

[Ian]

What pittance a week do you get for having that?

[Spikey M]

Just popping in to say I received my certificate the other day for being a Carbon Literacy Champion. :baz:

:D

[Yevrah]

I hate this World.

[Lewis]

Baz doing his bit at least. Well in Baz.

[Ian]

I hate this World.

Well tough shit, because Baz is going to save it for £2.50 a week.

[Yevrah]

Baz doing his bit at least. Well in Baz.

I would put money on Baz is no more doing his bit than he was before, he now just has a certificate that says he is.

Outstanding from all concerned really.

[Spikey M]

Less moaning, more getting it in the Pilot episode.

[Pepe]

Baz. :cool:

[Baz]

What pittance a week do you get for having that?Nothing at all. :cool:

[Ian]

You've changed man. You've.... what's the opposite of selling out? Buying in, I guess?

You've BOUGHT IN, you fraud.

[Baz]

I would put money on Baz is no more doing his bit than he was before, he now just has a certificate that says he is.

Outstanding from all concerned really.Excuse me, do you question all certificates?

Our Bucky’s just got his ducklings 3 badge at swimming.
Can he even do butterfly though?

Yay got my results - very happy with 1st and am now officially a Bachelor of Arts. Looking forward to starting my masters next year.
Gerra job, love!

[Spikey M]

A real Carbon Literacy Champion wouldn't be so supportive of paper being wasted on certificates. Shameful. Recycle your Pokemon cards immediately.

[Yevrah]

Baz. :cool:

[Baz]

A real Carbon Literacy Champion wouldn't be so supportive of paper being wasted on certificates. Shameful. Recycle your Pokemon cards immediately.It was an electronic one. :cool:

Two day course and then had to submit a “pledge.” Passed with flying colours, evidently. I’d recommend it.

[Ian]

Ah, so it's a certificate in wanting a two day doss you really got. That makes a lot more sense.

[Disco]

I was dearly hoping that the Carbon Literacy Champion certificate was actually printed out on paper.

[Spikey M]

I was dearly hoping that the Carbon Literacy Champion certificate was actually printed out on paper.

The ultimate Boss Level of something "not being worth the paper it's written on"

[Disco]

I think I'd print it anyway and frame it for the office.

[Spikey M]

This (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/7560392.stm) remains the reigning champion for now.

[igor_balis]

This (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/7560392.stm) remains the reigning champion for now.

I love how they brazenly claimed it was deliberately a generic skyline at first :D

[Giggles]

Places are on fire more because people are bigger cunts these days and are setting things on fire.

[Baz]

Ah, so it's a certificate in wanting a two day doss you really got. That makes a lot more sense.
Nah, tbh most days are a doss. This actually made me more busy.

[Kikó]

Places are on fire more because people are bigger cunts these days and are setting things on fire.

No, it's due to really hot temperatures, for longer causing drier conditions.

[Manc]

Places are on fire more because people are bigger cunts these days and are setting things on fire.

Have a word.

[Shindig]

I'm beginning to think Giggles is an arsonist.

[igor_balis]

Places are on fire more because people are bigger cunts these days and are setting things on fire.

I errrrr...what?

[Jimmy Floyd]

There needs to be a direct tax on matches.

[phonics]

Can we bribe the people rich enough to do something about it like ‘once we fix it only the people who paid for it get to skate on the river Thames when it freezes over like Victorian times.’

[Shindig]

"Colonise Mars? Fuck that noise. This is cheaper and more people will see it."

That might get Musk on board.

"This will get back at your ex-wife"

Boom. Bill Gates and Bezos are IN.

"If you shaft the aviation wankers, you can make bank on hot air balloons."

That'll sort Branson out.

[Queenslander]

Our Federal Government have laughed off the report. They reckon Net Zero by 2050 can fuck right off as well.

[Disco]

Can we bribe the people rich enough to do something about it like ‘once we fix it only the people who paid for it get to skate on the river Thames when it freezes over like Victorian times.’

Even if they like the idea they're more likely to just build their own refrigerated Thames resort in Dubai.

[Kikó]

Our Federal Government have laughed off the report. They reckon Net Zero by 2050 can fuck right off as well.

When it's your country being totally fucked by it, you'd think they'd come round to stop the fucking. Maybe they're masochists.

[Queenslander]

When it's your country being totally fucked by it, you'd think they'd come round to stop the fucking. Maybe they're masochists.

Mining Billionaires and multi nationals are pretty generous when it comes to the Liberal Party, National Party and the Labor Party.

If we aren't mining we are also cutting down old growth forest in Tasmania and in North Queensland.

[Spikey M]

1430483079521521664?s=19

I'd love to know how much damage these cunts do to their own cause. This shit makes me want to burn the nearest forest.

[Jimmy Floyd]

People at the extreme end of anything are always the worst people to try and convince the majority.

[Boydy]

Is that XR? I fucking hate them.

[Spikey M]

It is. They're so bad you have to wonder if it's a genius bit of 4D chess from Big Oil.

[SincereTheRebel]

What the fuck is that, are they beefing over a broccoli?

[Offshore Toon]

I was chatting to a couple of guys outside a police station in London last month (the police arrested their black mate at a protest) and I found it quite funny that left-leaning squabbling and division exists even when it comes to climate change. They really didn't like XR, but going off that vid I can see why.

[Giggles]

https://c.tenor.com/wk3S3qpEAFAAAAAM/kuz-torched.gif

[Don]

Still preferable to fat people tbf.

[mugbull]

Still preferable to fat people tbf.

Always

[Giggles]

The shoe bombers bigger nosed cousin judging on appearance :D

[Lewis]

People at the extreme end of anything are always the worst people to try and convince the majority.

They don't need to convince the majority. The police and courts are basically on their side, all popular culture outside of the tabloids supports them, and the government is doing half of their work for them. In ten years we'll still be lolling at them dressing up like dickheads whilst we're paying a meat tax and taking a loan out for a shit new boiler.

[Pepe]

*solar water heater

[Lewis]

A national campaign teaching us how to make solar shower bags out of bin liners, which we aren't allowed to use for bins anymore.

[Pepe]

Meanwhile, crypto mining will now account for 85% of electricity usage worldwide.

[Lewis]

'Crypto mining now accounts for 85% of electricity usage worldwide.'
'Bitcoin fixes this.'

[Manc]

Cop26 underway. China not attending. No biggie.

[Waffdon]

Reading that they were flying from Prestwick to Glasgow on their private jets raised a smile

[Dquincy]

Woman diagnosed with 'climate change'.

http://news.sky.com/story/canadian-doctor-diagnoses-woman-in-british-columbia-with-climate-change-after-breathing-problems-during-summer-of-heatwaves-and-wildfires-12465131

[Pepe]

Should take his license away.

[Yevrah]

Honestly Pep, if I'm ever in charge, you're going to be head of all things Science.

[Giggles]

Licence? He should be publicly flogged as a warning to others.

[Pepe]

Licence? He should be publicly flogged as a warning to others.

When I am appointed Head of All Things Science, I will allow it.

[Giggles]

Yev, get in charge.

[Spikey M]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-60312633


If nuclear fusion can be successfully recreated on Earth it holds out the potential of virtually unlimited supplies of low-carbon, low-radiation energy.

:cool:

[niko_cee]

Prof Ian Chapman was in my year at school.

Somewhat puts into perspective one's own achievements in life.

[Yevrah]

There's a man who's actually doing something realistic about climate change.

[Baz]

Prof Ian Chapman was in my year at school.

Somewhat puts into perspective one's own achievements in life.

Taking shits, sucking tits, smashing dinners and backing winners > being a nerdy professor

[Lewis]

Nuclear fusion has been ten years away for sixty years. We need to build conventional nuclear plants in the meantime.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Pretty sure the nerdy professor also takes shits and eats dinner.

[Giggles]

The greens are the gift that keep on giving.


1517593229625024513

[Manc]

Rent free.

[Giggles]

Buy at least the politicians will make their money.

[John Arne]

Impressive renewables muscle-flexing from China, adding 108GW of solar this year

That’s China adding in just 1 year:
- 90% of the USA’s total solar capacity
- 50% of Germany’s
- 7 times Spain’s
- 10 times France’s



China currently has 323 gigawatts of solar and 338 gigawatts of wind :drool:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-30/china-set-to-double-last-year-s-record-solar-panel-installations

[Pepe]

https://i.imgur.com/D6kTdkC.jpg

:happycry:

[Spikey M]

The more coal they burn, the hotter it gets, the more solar power they produce. Genius.

[Disco]

Those comparisons are useless as well, renewables as a proportion of their entire production is all that matters.

[Shindig]

The more coal they burn, the hotter it gets, the more solar power they produce. Genius.

Global warming equals more sunlight?

[niko_cee]

Apparently China has committed to planting 70 billion trees by the end of the decade. Now that struck me as a lot. I know there are a lot of them, and maybe it's just getting each and every one of them to plant 50 trees or something, but my back of a fag packet calculations tell me that's coming in at something like 20 million trees a day until 2030, or 240 per second. I dunno. Seems unlikely.

[Yevrah]

Given how much we cut them down and how much space we don't have for them these days I was pretty staggered when looking at tree stats per country.

COP continues to be a joke.

[Shindig]

Apparently China has committed to planting 70 billion trees by the end of the decade. Now that struck me as a lot. I know there are a lot of them, and maybe it's just getting each and every one of them to plant 50 trees or something, but my back of a fag packet calculations tell me that's coming in at something like 20 million trees a day until 2030, or 240 per second. I dunno. Seems unlikely.

They've built hospitals within a week. Mass tree planting should be a piece of piss. As Yev's said, it means nothing if you can't outpace the rate we cut them down.

[Lewis]

lol at poorer countries asking for 'climate reparations' like the West hasn't also stopped them eating each other and dying of mouth ulcers and sleeping sickness. That said, it seems sensible to pay the likes of Brazil and Indonesia not to cut their rainforests down. Pakistan can fucking whistle though. It deserves flooding.

[Pepe]

Seems risky for the third-worlders. Surely any money would come with strings attached. Mainly not developing their fossil fuel industries, which will just keep them shit poor and depending on even more handouts.

[Lewis]

Not if we spread the Green Jobs fairly.

[Pepe]

Lol, just read the quantities being pledged. Running the event must have cost more than that.

[Yevrah]

It fundamentally doesn't work as an idea and these people are taking the absolute piss as a result. 27 of these complete time wasting events. 27 and they come up with that.

[Pepe]

Nah, I am sure that the 2.5 million Euros that Belgium will give Mozambique over five years will really make a difference.

[Lewis]

The best use of this sort of thing would be to pay poorer countries to prevent their citizens from migrating to the developed world and adopting our carbon-intensive lifestyles. Every African kept out of Europe is one less gas boiler, one less steak night, one less uninsured car with bald tyres... Practical solutions to practical problems.

[Pepe]

We could also create a panel of environmentalists to determine the carrying capacity of each 1st world country and then ship the surplus citizens to Africa. With a stipend for their troubles, of course. Might seem unorthodox, but anything less would be COLLECTIVE SUICIDE.

[7om]

The best use of this sort of thing would be to pay poorer countries to prevent their citizens from migrating to the developed world and adopting our carbon-intensive lifestyles. Every African kept out of Europe is one less gas boiler, one less steak night, one less uninsured car with bald tyres... Practical solutions to practical problems.

But Sincere is from Haiti?

[Lewis]

We could also create a panel of environmentalists to determine the carrying capacity of each 1st world country and then ship the surplus citizens to Africa. With a stipend for their troubles, of course. Might seem unorthodox, but anything less would be COLLECTIVE SUICIDE.

That sounds a lot like colonisation to me mate.

[Bernanke]

Sea surface temps.

https://i.redd.it/rc11qn1urb6b1.png

North Atlantic.

https://i.ibb.co/jghr14K/Screenshot-2023-06-16-at-11-08-05.png

Antarctica.

https://i.ibb.co/5jn7Xqr/Screenshot-2023-06-16-at-11-08-19.png

El Niño peak next summer. :beer:

[Boydy]

Saw that last one being low and thought "that's not so bad then" but then realised that's sea ice extent and not sea surface temperature.

[Giggles]

Quick, someone think of a tax.

[Kikó]

Another play by big ice trying to make us pay more by melting.

[niko_cee]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-68381160

It's hard to not fall into the it's all a rort/nobody really wants to do anything about it/talk talk talk fatalistic view of this all when you read shit like:


The Drax Power Station, near Selby in North Yorkshire, is a converted coal plant which burns wood pellets. In 2023, it produced about 5% of the UK's electricity. The site has become a key part of the government's drive to meet its climate targets.

Its owner, Drax, receives money from energy bill payers because the electricity produced from burning pellets is classified as renewable and treated as emission-free.

In fact, the power station emits about 12 million tonnes of carbon a year, but under international rules the UK doesn't have to count these emissions.

:cab:

They're cutting down ancient/primary forest for the pellets as well. :happycry:

I suspect this is more likely the tip of the iceberg, rather than some advanced misinformation campaign by the wokerati in BBC Towers. Maybe 12 tonnes of emissions isn't that much, I don't know.

[Spikey M]

Is China still building 8 coal power stations a month? Lolol. Nothing we do in this country makes the blindest bit of difference. Just don't fill your kettle to the top lad. Job done.

Giggles is probably right - not necessarily in saying that it CC isn't happening, but in saying that it's just a money grab. We're to stop using petrol, because they're horribly poluting and electric cars are green, but they're only green because we charge them using power sourced from burning forests which is also... erm... green.

Just chuck it on the Everything Is Shit pile and stop worrying about it.

[Yevrah]

The solution is developing affordable renewable/non-carbon emitting energy that the whole World can use. Anything else is just frigging round the edges and will have almost no impact.

[Pepe]

The solution is to stop worrying about it and just deal with the consequences as they (very slowly) come. Things like electric cars and renewable energy plants will become mainstream when/if they are cost effective.

[Shindig]

In the meantime, I think we still should be aggressively planting trees (providing you're not in a country that catches fire in summer). I just love the whole green and pleasant land aesthetic.

[niko_cee]

Oilseed rape is the best countryside aesthetic. Trees are good, but half the year the best ones are barren and look properly grim. Mud, grey skies, bare brown trees. And was Jersusalem . . .

[Raoul Duke]

We should convert Australia into a big solar panel

[Shindig]

At best, that powers some of Australia some of the time.

[Kikó]

Yeah but no spiders.

[Spikey M]

Is adding a load of solar panels to a country with so many dangerous cold-blooded animals a good idea? We don't need to supercharge the cunts.

[John Arne]

China :drool:



Research published on Thursday by Global Energy Monitor (GEM), an NGO, found that China has 180 gigawatts (GW) of utility-scale solar power under construction and 15GW of wind power. That brings the total of wind and solar power under construction to 339GW, well ahead of the 40GW under construction in the US.

The researchers only looked at solar farms with a capacity of 20MW or more, which feed directly into the grid. That means that the total volume of solar power in China could be much higher, as small scale solar farms account for about 40% of China’s solar capacity.


https://gyazo.com/211fef32116c325f1bfb7d0e40781394.jpeg

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/11/china-building-twice-as-much-wind-and-solar-power-as-rest-of-world-report

[Magic]

Must be to power their robot army.

[Shindig]

"Nothing can stop us except an overcast day with little wind."

Seriously, solar is genuinely useless for China's massive consumption.

[Jimmy Floyd]

lol that we're doing more than India.

[John Arne]

"Nothing can stop us except an overcast day with little wind."

Seriously, solar is genuinely useless for China's massive consumption.

Yeah, all these people spendings billions don't know what they are doing :/

[Shindig]

This is the same country that goes big on coal. (https://www.carbonbrief.org/china-responsible-for-95-of-new-coal-power-construction-in-2023-report-says/#:~:text=In%20China%2C%2047.4GW%20of,of%20the%20wo rld's%203.7GW.)

[Spikey M]

Also the same country building completely unnecessary cities.

https://www.news.com.au/afx_prid/2024.7.3.1/auth/ptc/?scope=QAXx%2fyhsY3NpZD0zREY4RDU3Mi1CM0Q3LTQ2RUQtO UM2RC0xMDg4QThEQzQ4ODYmdG9rZW49YUhSMGNITTZMeTkzZDN jdWJtVjNjeTVqYjIwdVlYVXZabWx1WVc1alpTOXlaV0ZzTFdWe mRHRjBaUzloWTNKdmMzTXRZMmhwYm1FdGJXOXlaUzEwYUdGdUx UVXdMWE53Y21GM2JHbHVaeTFuYUc5emRDMWphWFJwWlhNdGRHa GhkQzEzWlhKbExXMWxZVzUwTFhSdkxXaHZkWE5sTFcxcGJHeHB iMjV6TFhOcGRDMWxaWEpwYkhrdFlXSmhibVJ2Ym1Wa0wyNWxkM 010YzNSdmNua3ZOR0prTUdRMU5tTTNZelV4T1dGak56VXpPREV 3WWpreVpqQmxOelJoWmpRPSZhZnhfNQHyIGNmNzBhMDQwNzE1Y TQ3MjQ4MmZjN2MyNWE4MDBkYTE4OGRjYTE3ZTRkZmUxNWE2OQD zFXJpZD1mODUyZTJiNzkyMGY0YTI0YjkwZDlhY2U3MjI2ODhlN TkAgTYyZDUwZjUzOQDwGHJxYz0yJk5leHRBY3Rpb249UmVkaXJ lY3RUb0NsaWVudERvbWFpbg%3d%3d&afx_auth=SPQqeMGTVrYKT8M8UfqxtZaLkURooN+Tc7qNDO85E 4AUSgSDAx0FW5HERgRvW6DXN0Y+IafPSVNFtVRz7mNKfFVzIKg 2hytAGkH+zwHNk0UL7PBGXUIrz7cSdjt/xhlL

Their economy depends on building and making shit, but they're so good - read: fast - at doing so, that they no longer need to do so. So here they are, building for the sake of building.

Our economy has the same issue. It's just that in a service economy the ghost towns are middle managers, equality and diversity departments, Domestic Abuse Champions, Mental Health Firstaiders, DSE Assessments, bullshit training providers, etc.

[Manc]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTKA5LMMbmsc8p-tuYU22hE6AO_7REn9Oq57A&usqp=CAU

[Pepe]

Good stuff:

https://substack.com/@jasoncrawford/p-161304738