F1 2021 - Covid 2: Viral Boogaloo

[thommo]

We've also had Silverstone, Hungaroring, Spa and Zandvoort since the Austria double-header. :D

[Shindig]

To be fair, he's been in prison for months. Ross Brawn's book on F1 strategy is a quid on the Apple at the minute. Worth a punt if he sneaks in how the fuck the B194 did what it did.

[Disco]

By being highly illegal.

[Shindig]

"We had quicker pitstops than the rest because Michael forced the fuel in quicker with his mind."

<Rory Byrne stays silent for 25+ years>

[phonics]

Didn’t Ross Brawn say ‘we should close off this loophole’ and everyone said ‘no we don’t need to’ so he exploited it?

[Giggles]

No no phonics, it’s Ferrari remember. Everything they did was illegal. Remember that time they sent all their data to McLaren to get them in trouble? - shocking stuff.

[Disco]

Benetton, before they all went to Ferrari.

[Shindig]

Yeah, you know the team whose principal did get done for cheating. A full list of Benetton 1994 weirdness:

The Fuel rig - The company that made the rigs told Larrousse it was fine to remove a filter on the hose. Benetton followed suit but apparently didn't tell anyone. That gave them a 14% boost in fuel rate during pitstops. And a small fire. FIA didn't do much about this so it was probably legal.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scA9WlKCBG8

Option 13 - Launch control. A thing that makes your starts perfect by a series of button presses in the cockpit. It become a prominent feature in the mid-20s but driver aids were banned in 1994. Ayrton Senna raises his suspicions after the Pacific Grand Prix saying that Schumacher's car was making odd throttle noises. On top of this, Ferrari driver Nicola Larini admitted to using traction control during practice. The FIA started investigations against Ferrari, Benetton and McLaren to confirm whether driver aids had been used. Ferrari handed their engine details straight over, McLaren did so after the May deadline, Benetton waited until June. They cited a non-disclosure agreement with Cosworth that prevented them from handing the details over. Once they did hand them over, the FIA found 'Option 13' in the code which was effectively launch control. Code means nothing unless you can prove Schumacher used it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKetSvnQs7Y

7:22 minutes in, Schumacher makes a phenomenal start from 3rd on the grid.

That's the gist of it. Schumacher did get a 3 race ban (2 for overtaking Hill twice on the formation lap in Britain, not serving the penalty and racing under black flags, one for wear on his plank in Spa). Jos Verstappen also said his and Schumacher's cars were different but Benetton didn't really have a comparable second driver.

The counterpoint is a theory that Ross Brawn trialled a blown diffuser on the B194 that resulted in the noises Senna was hearing. The blown diffusers that came in 2010 sounded like machine gun fire. On top of that, you generally hear traction control kicking in on the onboards which I don't get from Schumacher's 1994 footage. Schumacher also had a technique where he'd always keep a little bit of throttle on going into corners. Senna might've heard that. And he should know a thing or two about making his car sound weird.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LId5SKxljqs

Personally, I'd put it down mostly to technique but the cageyness of everyone involved always felt odd.

[John Arne]

We've also had Silverstone, Hungaroring, Spa and Zandvoort since the Austria double-header. :D

Oh god. Lockdown really does fuck with you :D

[Disco]

Don't worry, nothing of note happened at any of those.

[phonics]

Sounds like rain for Sochi :drool:

[niko_cee]

You say that, but rain just means everyone packs up and goes home now.

[phonics]

You say that, but rain just means everyone packs up and goes home now.

Lucky all the races are going to Middle Eastern oligarchys then really.


With every day that passss I’m starting to think that Bernie Ecclestones ‘turn sprinklers on for 15 laps’ becomes a better idea.

[Shindig]

If the race gets cancelled, do the penalties carry over?

[phonics]

Depends if they do two laps to keep the tv money I guess.

[Disco]

There has to be a race (or 'race') in which to apply the penalty so if doesn't happen you haven't served it.

[Gray Fox]

Incredible.

[niko_cee]

lol at that from Hamilton. More and more errors creeping in for him. Father time comes for everyone in the end.

Parked it across the final corner too late as well, should have done it a lap earlier. :schumi:

[Disco]

Hamilton really trying to chuck away every opportunity, great looking front two rows but you;d think Mercedes will be quick enough tomorrow to get past.

[Gray Fox]

You can exactly see there the difference between nothing to lose and everything to lose.

Hamilton and Mercedes are in the latter and have to be more cautious. As you say you can see it affecting him as the season goes on.

[Shindig]

What the fuck? That top 10 looks all kinds of cursed.

[Disco]

They'd have been fine had he not smacked the wall, that lost them the other warm up lap that the rest did.

[Gray Fox]

All this is missing is Hamilton having damage to the gearbox and getting a new power unit to stick him next to Max at the back.

[niko_cee]

I suppose he's close enough to the front to not warrant doing that, but it'll have to be a consideration at some point unless they reckon he can do the season without another engine.

[Gray Fox]

Word is he will definitely need a new one, it's just picking a spot for doing it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Russell over one lap is a farce. He could take every pole once he gets in a good car.

[Shindig]

Moments like that make me wonder why he's moving. Still, Williams better make the most of it. I'm not sure which way Albon goes next season but hopefully he manages regular points for them.

[Clunge]

Williams pretty much de facto 8th fastest car now too, with Latifi pulling his weight too. If they transition well to the new regs and Albon hits the ground running again, they'll have a good '22.

[7om]

Poor from Perez today. They really needed him up with the Mercs and he ends up over 3 seconds off pole.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Perez has always been a one trick pony, and that trick is smoothing it through from the back on one set of tyres. In some less equipment-conservative eras he might not have made F1 at all.

[phonics]

I was kind of hoping George Russell was a bust because he has that ‘popular knobhead in secondary school’ aura about him but putting a Williams on the top 3 of the grid twice? Insane.

[Disco]

Mercedes dropping Bottas to the back looks proper small time, I'm not even sure what the point is as it just heightens the possibility that Verstappen passes him early in the race. Having said that it would make for a good lap one chuckle if Verstappen either does him off the line or does another of his trademark moves into T1 and takes them both out.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Having a ballerina wiggling her arse on a piano instead of the national anthem is proper absurd, almost to Styrian levels.

[John Arne]

I used to really look forward to wet weekends, but now I just kinda fear the inevitable deluge.... of red flags :) and queues of cars in the pit lane.

Here's hoping that the rain isn't hard enough to stop that blasted helicopter.

[Gray Fox]

Changeable conditions :D

Also, marvel at this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43HCYSXZ9GI

[John Arne]

Always a shame a when Martin Brundle isn't on comms. He's missed a few races this year, do we know if he's well?

[Disco]

He was driving at Goodwood last weekend.

[Jimmy Floyd]

You know it's a dreadful circuit layout when getting a poor start is a huge advantage.

[John Arne]

He was driving at Goodwood last weekend.

Ah, good.

[John Arne]

Here's a question. Perez or Bottas... Who is more useless?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Bottas is basically Massa, but instead of spinning he does dozy lock-ups and mistakes.

[John Arne]

I do love Bottas when someone fast approaches him and he just completely shits the bed. Comically predictable stuff.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I worry about Max here, think conditions are apt for him to lose his head.

Norris has driven a majestic race here, however it ends up.

[Waffdon]

Hamilton is going to take him with a few laps to go :(

[Shindig]

I'm not sure. The McLaren's got the grunt to defend.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If Lewis is smart he'll take no risks here. 2nd to Verstappen's 7th is a fine result.

[Disco]

You've got to have a go but he couldn't pass Ricciardo earlier so it seems unlikely.

[Shindig]

Rain. All bets are off.

You've got to feel for Norris.

[Waffdon]

Fuck :(

[SincereTheRebel]

It's easy to say now, but it was the wrong call.

These inter tyres are brilliant.

[John Arne]

Gutted for Lando. I know it's hindsight, but his team really should have told him to pit.

[Pepe]

That was an excellent race. You have to feel bad for Norris, he did great all day. Verstappen lucky af.

[Jimmy Floyd]

How did Verstappen manage to con his way past the other 4 cars?

[Gray Fox]

That was daft from Lando. Just copy what Lewis did on the next lap. He got too zoned in on the win when 2nd would have been guaranteed.

[niko_cee]

They decided working tyres were an unnecessary extravagance.

[Shindig]

Bottas somehow getting 5th from that is something. Perez down in 9th. Red Bull should just run the one car.

[niko_cee]

Bottas is such a comedy character. Without the rain he was pootling around in 14th or something.

[Giggles]

How did Verstappen manage to con his way past the other 4 cars?

:lol:

[Jimmy Floyd]

You're an ill man, giggs.

[SincereTheRebel]

Mercedes telling Hamilton to pit and Mclaren asking Norris if he wants to pit

[Giggles]

You're an ill man, giggs.

I don’t think you’re in a position to judge after that post.

[Shindig]

I figured Mercedes were doing it to cover off Verstappen who'd just pitted.

[Gray Fox]

Big result in the constructors with that too. Bottas with now, what, 2 new engines in the last 2 races? They have that and a big enough lead to probably say they have that in the bag.

Had you asked where Max would likely have finished at race start, you'd still have said he'd claim 3rd or 4th with Hamilton pushing up to 2nd and fighting for 1st, so it's probably about evened itself out.
The dynamic has once again shifted though. That's twice now Max has come out of a triple header with a title lead, having won 5 of those 6 races, but still lost it on the next race.
Now that he doesn't have that lead, given we know Lewis is not going to yield, is he still going to be so keen to stick it up Lewis' inside? Likewise, I'd suggest Lewis will now be more likely to do it back to Max.

[Pepe]

For once, I would have liked to see how the race panned out without the rain. It was a really good race even before the rain started.

[niko_cee]

Aye, the rain was fun, but it sort ruined/rendered pointless the previous 48 laps, in the same way the final sector of the final lap being 5 seconds faster in qualifying nullified all that had gone before.

[Disco]

Verstappen employed the perfidious Dutch tactic of pitting on the right lap, presumably because he was about to be 8th so had little to lose.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Always known he was a cheat.

[Disco]

They let Grosjean have a go in the pace car at Laguna Seca.


https://youtu.be/k5SVeC1soqk?t=24

[Jimmy Floyd]

In fairness to him, American pit exits are the fucking worst.

[Pepe]

That looks like an entry, but from sim racing, I can tell you that Laguna Seca's pit exit is wretched.

EDIT: Look at how bouncy that shit is. :D

EDIT: I'm a what he says? :D

[Gray Fox]

So we now have a Qatar GP confirmed for the next 10 years, with it also sneaking its way into this years calendar.

The season ending in the middle east, as opposed to Brazil as it should, was bad enough, but this is getting out of hand. Now there are three of them.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Street race too, obvs (from 2023). What's wrong with Losail?

[Disco]

Not enough blood from indentured construction workers.

[Gray Fox]

Speaking of which, I've seen recent photos of where the Jeddah GP is due to happen and it's still a relative pile of dirt. We're only 9 weeks out.

[Pepe]

F1 gravel race. :drool:

[Shindig]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSzHHqmFKQ4

:|

[Giggles]

He’s getting bored.

[Pepe]

What is it? Not available in my country.

[Shindig]

The easiest way to describe it is dreadlocks perched on one side of his head. Like a fake spider.

[Pepe]

Lewis Hamilton?

[Shindig]

Sir Lewis Hamilton, yes. It really, really shows off his hairline.

[Disco]

https://i.imgur.com/koh7iqE.png

[Pepe]

:lol:

[Shindig]

Now imagine that all pushed to one side of his head.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The middle two-thirds of him looks like my long-dead grandma circa 1989.

[SincereTheRebel]

Man out here like Killmonger

[Shindig]

Columbine: now in colour.

[Disco]

https://i.imgur.com/z28rRbB.png

[Shindig]

He's basically a black David Beckham. Except he got his knighthood and never says a word about it.

[Disco]

Sensible time to take an engine penalty, when your rivals are racing in a custom livery.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I don't know about Max, but Jos certainly has massive 1940s collaborator energy, so I reckon Hamilton's clothes probably rile them up.

[John Arne]

Pretty sure Mazepin spun on corner 1 three times during Q1 just then. 1.7 seconds off 19th.

[Gray Fox]

Could well be a start on Inters :p

[Disco]

So Verstappen ahead by T1?

[Shindig]

Inevitably.

[Gray Fox]

Max is either ahead by turn 1 or in the wall.

Lewis will be seething. His car was clear fastest in the dry. Now he's right in the pack for a greasy start.

[Giggles]

I’m going to go out on a limb and predict a Hamilton win.

[Gray Fox]

I reckon he gets punted off by a rogue Tsunoda.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Max is either ahead by turn 1 or in the wall.

Lewis will be seething. His car was clear fastest in the dry. Now he's right in the pack for a greasy start.

Yeah but grease at Turkey is basically his happy place.

[Giggles]

I reckon he gets punted off by a rogue Tsunoda.

For a split second I thought you were going to be right there.

[Disco]

Gasly punting Alonso off the track the same way he'd like to punt him out of his seat.

If I had to do the same again
I would, my friend, Fernando

[Jimmy Floyd]

I preferred Nando's nostalgic punt on Mick.

That penalty is harsh on Gasly. Turn one should be more or less fair game.

[Disco]

Racing incident on any lap for me Clive.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Hamilton in the wet is gorgeous to watch. One of the few times you can still visually see the difference between drivers on TV.

[Disco]

Penalty for Gasly but not Sainz, explain that one if you can.

[John Arne]

Verstappen to get within 1.4 of Bottas and cause him to shit himself and spin off. Can't wait.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The stewarding team for this race is Marc Gene, Florentino Perez, General Franco, and El Cid.

[Gray Fox]

For a split second I thought you were going to be right there.

The kid can't do the wet stuff for some reason.

[John Arne]

Fair play to Bottas, he seems to have reacted to Verstappen putting his foot down.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Surely that was 100% illegal from Perez, he drove over the bloody pit lane.

[Pepe]

Not like he was given any room to go anywhere else.

[Pepe]

Mercedes had a bit of a 'mare there.

[Gray Fox]

Mind boggling decision to pit Lewis when they did. The chance was about 10 laps earlier, or not at all.

Button could even see it from the commentary box.

[Giggles]

Has Button been on much? He’s good there.

[Pepe]

Yeah, they should have either told him to fuck off when he didn't want to pit, or just let him go all the way.

[Gray Fox]

Rumours about that Mario Andretti wants to buy out Sauber/Alfa Romeo team and have us a yankee driver on the grid for next year.

[Disco]

Are they buying it outright or just taking over from Alfa? You'd think the latter would be more sensible given how badly Haas have done (cheat year notwithstanding). I also see Mercedes and Petronas are parting ways with Aramco as the replacement, real out of the frying pan into a slightly different but equally hot frying pan stuff there.

[Disco]

And it also begs the question of whether Colton Herta (because who else would it be) wants to swap a title shot for scrubbling about the midfield being beaten by Bottas.

[thommo]

Quite enjoying a 10pm qualifying start time. COTA is a good track too, compared to most of the newer stuff.

[Gray Fox]

Large bet on lap 1/2 contact between the front 2 tomorrow.

[Foe]

Hopefully agent Perez gets in the mix also.

[Gray Fox]

We've got some nice drizzle in the air.

[Giggles]

Is the build up to this and the hype around it much bigger than normal? Or is it just because of the timing?

[Gray Fox]

Timing. They're also trying really hard to make F1 a thing in the US.

[Waffdon]

What the fuck is that singing

[Jimmy Floyd]

That Brundle grid walk was priceless.

[Giggles]

Ah, is it on at 8? I thought they were at all this for a 10pm start. Do many races start at a different time to qualifying?

[Pepe]

Man said we love nasty. :D

[Giggles]

I’m going to guess this lad played basketball.

[Jimmy Floyd]

That rapper's 40 stone bodyguard vs Martin Brundle was better than most races are. Thought he was about to get buried.

[Giggles]

6th street :drool:

[Disco]

Shenanigans aside I don't see anything other than a VER/HAM/PER finish from here.

[Gray Fox]

Nope. I don’t know why you wouldn’t pit first at Mercedes?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Fernando should put 'No investigation necessary' on all his merch, if anyone's still buying it.

[niko_cee]

Bottas dialing in one of his trademark 'this is why I'm going to Alfa[?]' drives. Probably not what Merc needed.

I guess they were hoping everyone didn't pit out of Verstappen's way with the undercut, but the Red Bull does just look quicker.

[Pepe]

This circuit needs some walls.

[Shindig]

Hamilton's left this too late.

[Waffdon]

Verstappen is just a level above him

[Jimmy Floyd]

Wonderful race. Ultimately Red Bull were just better out of that turn 11 hairpin all race I think.

[niko_cee]

Was a captivating race, but, then, very little actually happened on the track and it is still a tyre management formula, which is a bit dull when you take a step back. Multi-stop races are so much better though, maybe they need to make it so you have to use every tyre compound in a race.

[Lewis]

Does Mick Schumacher ever get just 'Schumacher', or is he always 'Mick Schumacher' until he wins eight titles?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Does Mick Schumacher ever get just 'Schumacher', or is he always 'Mick Schumacher' until he wins eight titles?

He is very much Mick 'Mick Schumacher' Schumacher.

[Disco]

Verstappen had that covered all day, result never in doubt. Title is his to lose.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Was a captivating race, but, then, very little actually happened on the track and it is still a tyre management formula, which is a bit dull when you take a step back. Multi-stop races are so much better though, maybe they need to make it so you have to use every tyre compound in a race.

Tyre management formula is still a lot better than the Noah's Ark aero formula of the 2000s.

You basically need the tyres to introduce some kind of variable in an era of ultra-reliability. If you put on these cars the horrible grooved things that made Kimi look quick for a few years nearly 20 years ago it would be awful.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Someone needs to defeat the Max/RB combo soon, this Dutch/Austrian anthem combo is two bullets and a cyanide territory.

[Gray Fox]

Looks like Max has about half a second on everyone here. Woof.

Those Mercs struggling to get the tyres right for a one lap burst.

[Jimmy Floyd]

This session has yet to top Mr Szafnauer furiously spinning Stroll's shunt as 'unlucky'.

[Giggles]

Belgium. Europe. Something. France.

Bottas showed in Q1 that Hamilton will probably get pole.

[Gray Fox]

Woof.

Stonker from Valtteri there.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The Red Bull was crabbing through the Peraltada last time around, all nighter coming up you'd think, although maybe not I guess if they're in parc fermé.

[phonics]

After weeks of being told what is a Mercedes track and what is a Red Bull track I’m just going to ignore all F1 punditry.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It hasn't been clear cut at all this season. In 2019 you could predict it quite easily.

[niko_cee]

First corner clusterfuck ahoy today.

[Giggles]

Hopefully. Everything’s been too clean lately.

[Gray Fox]

Mega long straight into turn 1 with the supposedly faster cars in places 3 and 4. Bound to be some smash ups, right?

I think yesterday was teams struggling with the track surface. Getting the tyre switched on for a full-go lap seemed quite difficult. This should explain a little why most were not improving on their last run. Max was on a lap that would have likely sandwiched him between Bottas and Hamilton put Yuki made sure that didn't happen.

[Giggles]

Is this one an evening kickoff like Texas?

[Gray Fox]

7pm this time.

[Giggles]

Nice. Have the dinner ate, the balls washed, and the hooves up.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yuki being put on the softs in Q2 to make a tow line for the Red Bulls (did you notice the Alpha Tauris queuing at the pit exit at the start of the sessions?) and then binning it mid-lap is pretty funny, really. Horner then had a massive pop at him afterwards, like the deeply unpleasant man he is.

[Gray Fox]

The entire Red Bull side is getting quite unpleasant isn't it? We already know about Dr Marko and Horner, but even the usually very likeable Max is starting to go that way of late.

But it is the right way around for an entertaining race. I suspect a lot of teammate shenanigans to unfold.

[Pepe]

Crap, missed the start. What the hell happened?

[Gray Fox]

Ricciardo forgot his station and speared Bottas off. Max did them all on the brakes.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The Mercedes isn't working in the stadium. Verstappen taking absolutely chunks out of it.

[Pepe]

So far all I've seen is everyone overtaking Russell. This will be an absolute borefest.

[Gray Fox]

If you come to a track where overtaking is hard, making it also an easy 1 stop on the tyres is the wrong way to go.

[thommo]

Yuki being put on the softs in Q2 to make a tow line for the Red Bulls (did you notice the Alpha Tauris queuing at the pit exit at the start of the sessions?) and then binning it mid-lap is pretty funny, really. Horner then had a massive pop at him afterwards, like the deeply unpleasant man he is.

Yuki didn't even bin it, he moved off track to allow Perez and Verstappen through without dirty air. Perez then had a big snap of oversteer entering the corner and went wide and Max lost a few tenths through the same section.

I really like Max but the Red Bull machine in general is just horrible. Horner saying we were "Tsunoda'd"; how does that make him feel hearing that from his parent team? Just ridiculous to be airing that in public.

[niko_cee]

What a fucking boring race.

Probably wouldn't have helped him, but why Bottas was letting Verstappen have space around the outside of him into turn 1 is anyone's guess, would have thought double team block the road would have been the better strategy (until you get nuked by some idiot from behind, natch).

For all it's apparent excitement, or should I say early promise, the races this year have been deathly dull (even by F1s low standards) for the most part. Every time there looks like there might be a bit of fight from the back action a midfield fun sponge (quite often a McLaren) puts pay to anyone ever passing anyone.

[thommo]

I think that's a bit harsh on the whole. Today was awful, granted, but it wasn't helped by a really terrible GP track. I'd go as far to say that today was the worst race of the year. But compare this season to the majority of the last decade and it's been world's ahead in terms of competitiveness and close racing.

Going through the calendar, I'd say there's been 7 duds, including the farce that was Spa. The other 11 races have been varying levels of excitement but I think that's better than most recent seasons already.

[Shindig]

I feel like that's most seasons, even when things are tight. You might get two, three at a push, races that are actually exciting. The Verstappen DNF's have kept things closer than they should and now he's pulling away.

[Jimmy Floyd]

With this many races on a calendar the best package (this year, the Red Bull) will always win out with 2-3 races to go.

If they want to keep expanding they really have to clamp down on aero and get 3 or 4 cars in the mix for race wins.

[Shindig]

Are Alpha Tauri still using Red Bull's Honda engines next season?

[niko_cee]

The other 11 races have been varying levels of excitement but I think that's better than most recent seasons already.

Perhaps, but other than early in the season, the 'varying levels of excitement' have been mainly can car X on a different tyre strategy catch and pass car Y, and the answers have invariably been, yes catch to within 1.5 seconds, and then no, no passing.

Sprinklers and massive aero disturbing fans please.

[Giggles]

You’re into tacky formula E fan boosts and all that shit then. Hopefully the new cars will help overtaking.

[Jimmy Floyd]

As long as the things are giving out massive aero wash they'll never be able to follow each other. If it wasn't for DRS (which is wacky races in itself) we'd still be having 2000s-style full grid processions.

[niko_cee]

You’re into tacky formula E fan boosts and all that shit then. Hopefully the new cars will help overtaking.

Not really, but needing to be 2 seconds a lap faster than someone to even have a shout of getting past them is a bit :cab:.

Sadly, much like the tax system, I don't think there is an answer. There is always some clever bugger out there who will work a way around anything you try to do. Presumably more tech (moveable aero, driver aids etc) might be able to help, but that doesn't work with the cost cap business. I suppose the best thing about making it open season on wacky ideas would be the associated reliability issues. The cars being (or being managed so they are) completely bulletproof these days is another part of the problem, which again goes to the cost cap I guess.

I'd be intrigued to know whether they deliberately build the aero wash into the design now, and whether it has got bigger in recent seasons to try and dent the chances of a following car getting into DRS range. I'd be amazed if that isn't the case.

[Shindig]

Even if Mercedes do have the pace, Red Bull can save time on the pitstops.

[SincereTheRebel]

Why bottas didn't defend to his left at the start. He just let the dutch lad with the lisp fly past him

[Gray Fox]

Not really, but needing to be 2 seconds a lap faster than someone to even have a shout of getting past them is a bit :cab:.

Sadly, much like the tax system, I don't think there is an answer. There is always some clever bugger out there who will work a way around anything you try to do. Presumably more tech (moveable aero, driver aids etc) might be able to help, but that doesn't work with the cost cap business. I suppose the best thing about making it open season on wacky ideas would be the associated reliability issues. The cars being (or being managed so they are) completely bulletproof these days is another part of the problem, which again goes to the cost cap I guess.

I'd be intrigued to know whether they deliberately build the aero wash into the design now, and whether it has got bigger in recent seasons to try and dent the chances of a following car getting into DRS range. I'd be amazed if that isn't the case.


This is the main problem in F1. There are just too many clever people trying to solve the same puzzle in order to get more aero on the car. This season is a great example. They reduced the effect a front wing can have and tried to reduce downforce by 10-20% for the year. Well the teams basically managed to gain it all back with changes to the cars.

The dirty air going into the car behind isn't deliberate as such, but given the spec of car they have to build, it's the only place the air can go. Certain cars will obviously struggle more or less with that. Take Mercedes. It's been known for a few years now that the car just does not work as good in traffic, but put it in clear air in first and it becomes a different beast.

I'm not convinced the 2022 spec will solve all of our problems. Either one or more of the engineers will find a way to bring back a big chunk of downforce lost, then the rest copy his/her homework. The positive is that the angled rear wing and the floor tunnels should help push all of this dirty air up and over the cars behind. Should being the key word. If it doesn't, or if some twat finds a way to bypass that, then it's as you were, but with new tyres.

[Disco]

There is a potential answer, no aero devices above the floor, make it entirely mechanical grip or ground effect. That way dirty air is far less of an issue and you can follow someone without toasting half your car. Unfortunately it will be unpopular with teams and could make some of the more traditional circuits unusable.

[Gray Fox]

5 place grid drop for Hamilton for the new engine. Considering this track is all Red Bull, that should just about close the book on the title.

[Giggles]

Need a Verstappen head rush DNF to keep this going.

[Disco]

Well that about seals it I would think, unless Verstappen/Red Bull implode in immensely comical fashion.

[Giggles]

Is qualifying tonight? I keep seeing stuff from teams on twitter about it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It is, why is that? Don't tell me there's another stupid sprint?

[Giggles]

That’s what I was wondering too. Maybe they’re only posting it because practice is all done but it sort of seems like it’s near time. Maybe small hours?

Also, is there a good source to find out such a thing?

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's just come on now and 'Crofty' confirms there's a sprint. On the plus side, it looks wet or at least gloomy there.

[Giggles]

Does this mean qualifying is pointless or not? I’m guessing because the sprint races are shit then it’s the latter.

[Disco]

The Beeb, crap as their website coverage is, normally has the session times. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/47499757

[Jimmy Floyd]

That is often a surprisingly hard thing to google (every outlet wants 5 clicks out of you so hides it hard).

[Shindig]

So is Lewis being penalised after this session or the sprint qualifying?

[Gray Fox]

After the sprint.

The George Russell streak is finally over.

[Disco]

The sprint is actual qualifying so any penalties come after that.

[Gray Fox]

Over 4 tenths around Interlagos is serious stuff. Is that really all from the new engine?

[7om]

The Beeb, crap as their website coverage is, normally has the session times. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/47499757

f1calendar.com

[Gray Fox]

Lewis and Max to the stewards in the morning.

Lewis because his DRS flap seems to not open within the set allowances. Seems pretty open and shut, likely at the back of the grid for the sprint now.

Max is more interesting. There's video of him fiddling with the rear wing of his own car and Lewis' just after they jumped out, after qualifying. Stewards say this is a parc fermé breach. Seems like another easy one, though I'm not sure what the punishment here would be.

[John Arne]

Just seen the results. Presumably, Bottas slowed down on the final corner to ensure he didn't grab that valuable 2nd place.

Not that it would've mastered one jot.

[Giggles]

When will we know the outcome? The two of them at the back will make it worth watching anyway, and will make the engine penalty a master stroke.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Max is more interesting. There's video of him fiddling with the rear wing of his own car and Lewis' just after they jumped out, after qualifying. Stewards say this is a parc fermé breach. Seems like another easy one, though I'm not sure what the punishment here would be.

I've checked the regulations and unfortunately, the penalty is death. A shame at his age, but rules are rules.

[Disco]

Death by Samba.

[niko_cee]

If you get demoted are you allowed to take a bunch of new engine bits? I was thinking to myself yesterday that Hamiltons best strategy would be to run Max off the road at the first corner seeing as he was already taking a grid drop. It's a good system when that's the logical thing to do. Imagine Schumacher operating within that meta.

[Shindig]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz96HbSHWnE

Mate, you were six tenths off the Williams.

[Gray Fox]

I believe the penalty is applied to the sprint today rather than the race, so it’s not quite as simple for Lewis. He could make useful gains in the sprint.

The interesting thing is Max went over and fiddled with his rear wing before it was tested, which is a parc fermé breach. If I were Mercedes I’d say Max messing with it makes the test void as it’s been tampered with by a third party.

[thommo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz96HbSHWnE

Mate, you were six tenths off the Williams.

He was up on his last lap, and when you've been last in literally every qualifying session, it must be shit to feel like your mistake cost that opportunity.

Not a defence for the man as he has done a lot of pretty ropey stuff, but as a racing driver he's obviously striving to be better in an awful car.

[thommo]

Also, I don't think Max actually touches either car. Not clear from the video I've seen anyway, seems like he's just measuring his rear wing against the Merc.

In the interest of the championship, I think no one should receive a penalty here. Let them get on with it and see how the Sprint goes.

[Shindig]

I'm not sure he touches it either. Just doing his Inspector Seb due diligence. There's a photographer right in the thick of it, too.

[Giggles]

He’ll get done to balance it up though, because Mercedes and Hamilton. I’d be surprised Wolff hasn’t convinced them that he actually made the gap on their car and they’re just victims.

[Disco]

I believe the penalty is applied to the sprint today rather than the race, so it’s not quite as simple for Lewis. He could make useful gains in the sprint.

The interesting thing is Max went over and fiddled with his rear wing before it was tested, which is a parc fermé breach. If I were Mercedes I’d say Max messing with it makes the test void as it’s been tampered with by a third party.

This is the dumbest rule ever, how is it a grid penalty if it's applied before the grid is decided? It's like knocking you back a few places in Q1, it's barely a penalty at that point.

[Gray Fox]

It’s because the sprint is seen as a race which provides the result for the full race. His qualifying time will be deleted but he can still make progress in the sprint. If there were no sprint he’d likely have a pit lane start on Sunday.

[Disco]

Hang on, are we talking about the component change penalty or the DRS penalty?

If it's the former then it's bullshit as it makes the severity of penalties needlessly inconsistent, and if it's the latter it's still silly because they went to great pains at Silverstone to tell us the sprint wasn't a race but 'sprint qualifying' so you should lose your Friday time and go to the back/15th/10th depending on which sessions it was in.

[Gray Fox]

Component change penalty applies to Sundays full race. Assuming this DRS one goes against Lewis, it will apply to Saturdays sprint.

Quite why it’s taking so long is strange. It either opens too wide or it doesn’t.

[Disco]

They're looking for an excuse not to ruin the show.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The best thing they can do for the show is penalise Hamilton for the wing and then penalise Verstappen 3 grid places or whatever the penalty is for pissing about in parc fermé. If they let them both off it's a bit of a joke.

[Giggles]

Component change penalty applies to Sundays full race. Assuming this DRS one goes against Lewis, it will apply to Saturdays sprint.

Quite why it’s taking so long is strange. It either opens too wide or it doesn’t.

They’re photoshopping a twirly moustache on Verstappen in the video.

[Disco]

In other news I see the racist Kyle Larson has won NASCAR, for some reason all three seasons I've watched I get to about three races to go and lose interest. Turns out 36 races is a few too many.

[John Arne]

For those struggling to find start times etc., the one thing the F1 website does well is start times. Just go to the homepage, scroll halfway down and you see all the races lined up, wait a second and it auto opens the current race and shows the start times in your country for each session. Bonza.

[niko_cee]

The practice session between the sprint qualifying and the sprint race always feels completely pointless.

[Giggles]

Did they decide anything yet?

[Shindig]

50k Euro fine for Verstappen.

Hamilton DQ'ed from qualfying.

[Gray Fox]

And that's pretty much it for the title race.

[Giggles]

What does that mean? They’ve already done qualifying.

[Shindig]

He starts from the back of the sprint race. Then he gets a 5 place penalty from wherever he finishes in the sprint race.

[niko_cee]

No, the sprint race is 'qualifying'. So Hamilton is at the back for that, and then will be at the back for the actual race once you factor in the 5 place penalty.

Agent Valtteri into turn 1 is Merc's only hope. They do seem to have been very bad with off track/tactics/management stuff this year.

[Disco]

No, the sprint is qualifying. So does he just not start in it or do they mean he was DQ'd from the practice session which just happens to be the same as normal qualy and sets the start order for actual qualifying.

[niko_cee]

The fanboy outrage is quite funny.

Having a car in breach of the regs is a fairly open and shut thing.

[Shindig]

Yes, he was DQ'd from Friday's session so starts at the back of the sprint.

[Giggles]

Ah, so it’s as expected. They’ve just worded it to sound like they’re coming down harder.

[Gray Fox]

He was that fast that he should clear the field quite well, but he'll be right in the carbon fibre zone for turn 1. His best hope is to survive that and start clearing the field. If he can clear up to a decent points position and get a safety car(agent Latifi crashes on the start straight) he could find himself up near the podium.

Max is going out of this weekend with more than a race win in hand, assuming his car doesn't go pop.

[Giggles]

He was that fast that he should clear the field quite well, but he'll be right in the carbon fibre zone for turn 1. His best hope is to survive that and start clearing the field. If he can clear up to a decent points position and get a safety car(agent Latifi crashes on the start straight) he could find himself up near the podium.

Max is going out of this weekend with more than a race win in hand, assuming his car doesn't go pop.

Was he that fast because of the wing though? Genuine question as I’ve no idea what difference it would make.

[Disco]

The fanboy outrage is quite funny.

Having a car in breach of the regs is a fairly open and shut thing.

People do seem to take these things weirdly seriously.

[Disco]

Was he that fast because of the wing though? Genuine question as I’ve no idea what difference it would make.

Depends how much larger the slot was than it should have been and there is a nice long straight, but it's unlikely to account for all of the margin.

[Disco]

Sky just showed highlights from an early 80's Brazilian GP and it's amazing to see hordes of mechanics wandering about in tiny shorts as well as Murray Walker conning me into believing a Derek Warwick pitstop could be 'sensational', what a master he was.

[Gray Fox]

Brazil has a short DRS zone compared to other tracks really so maybe a tenth or two could have been gained.

Rain dances in the Hamilton motor home tonight, I think.

[Jimmy Floyd]

F1 fanboys in general (I think this is a post-DTS thing) are a weird phenomenon, even in the peak Schumacher hate years I was never partisan enough for/against any particular driver to let it cloud my judgement. F1 is more of a sport where you should kind of be a fan of everyone, while preferring some over others. Watching it like you'd watch your football team or something can't be a healthy process.

[Giggles]

F1 fanboys in general (I think this is a post-DTS thing) are a weird phenomenon, even in the peak Schumacher hate years I was never partisan enough for/against any particular driver to let it cloud my judgement. F1 is more of a sport where you should kind of be a fan of everyone, while preferring some over others. Watching it like you'd watch your football team or something can't be a healthy process.

Fucking lol.

[Giggles]

Hard to see him in the top 10 for the main race which should make great watching tomorrow anyway.

[Jimmy Floyd]

You love Ferrari and hate the Brits, I'm the opposite, neither of us are the demented kind of weirdos you get having arguments on social media.

[Giggles]

You love Ferrari and hate the Brits, I'm the opposite, neither of us are the demented kind of weirdos you get having arguments on social media.

I don’t really just ‘hate the brits’ when it comes to F1. Your media (I like partisan, but it’s still the only the only avenue I have to watch F1) make me dislike the ones I do like a little bit more, but nationalities aside Hamilton and Russell just come across as pricks.

I more like Ferrari because I can’t get my head around the irrational hatred for them on here. Or one I don’t fully understand at least.

[Disco]

Beyond the initial fascination I've always been a fan of F1 first, you obviously have favourite teams/drivers but I'd still be watching if they all folded or retired (which they frequently have). The frothing tends to show up on social media which is just how those places work, only the most extreme of views gets any traction.

[Giggles]

Yeah, all that ramble of mine above aside, Twitter really is a special place for special people a lot of the time. Special not being a good thing.

[Disco]

I don’t really just ‘hate the brits’ when it comes to F1. Your media (I like partisan, but it’s still the only the only avenue I have to watch F1) make me dislike the ones I do like a little bit more, but nationalities aside Hamilton and Russell just come across as pricks.

If you're watching F1 for well rounded lovable chappies then good luck, even the nicest of them would knife your granny for a few tenths a lap. You;re right on the media thing though, but I think it would be same anywhere, the presentation is all about the current narrative and branding.

[Shindig]

Yeah, I was never against Schumacher because he was absolutely the fastest man of his era. I can't stay mad at that. Same goes for Vettel. Dominance is boring to watch but really difficult to achieve. The twitter mob tend to associate cheating with everything they don't like.

[Disco]

I never wanted Schumacher to win but I still thought it was bullshit when they screwed Ferrari/Bridgestone in 2006(?). Once you start advocating harsher penalties for people you don't like then you might as well not bother with the sport at all.

[Giggles]

If you're watching F1 for well rounded lovable chappies then good luck, even the nicest of them would knife your granny for a few tenths a lap. You;re right on the media thing though, but I think it would be same anywhere, the presentation is all about the current narrative and branding.

That’s true, though there was always something I liked about the more breezy cockiness of a Button (and now Norris I think) than what Hamilton and Russell come across as.

[Disco]

The more pictures I see of Russell outside of F1 the more of a rich boy tosser he looks, put a shirt on ffs.

[Gray Fox]

My dislike of Ferrari comes from being younger and seeing the German man in that red car winning all of the time.

Much like now the youth will grow up disliking the Silver/Black cars.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I first watched F1 in I think late 1994, Adelaide was one of my first races, which solidified a pro-Hill, anti-Schumacher feeling and there has been I think a clear family tree of allegiances since then - I liked Ferrari until Schumacher joined/was a threat with them, then hated them because they were always up against Hamilton. Now Leclerc and Sainz are with Ferrari I'm almost coming round to liking them again.

This did involve a very awkward period in 2005-6 when I had to be pro-Alonso, probably my least favourite era.

[Shindig]

Man, Lewis could win tomorrow with that pace.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Now fair play, that was a really great sprint race. Helped by Hamilton being out of place and it being on the best racing circuit on the calendar.

Epic drive by Sainz.

[Waffdon]

Yeah, that was great. Bottas is some boy

[Gray Fox]

That's obscene from Lewis.

I expected him maybe up to about 10th with all of the DRS trains.