April..... well, not football [FOOTBALL]

[Ian]

Well, no football unless you're watching the Belarusian league certainly. But football related stuff people want to discuss will still come up so the football may not be happening but the threads will be.

Because if you dom't keep doing the monthly football threads that's how the virus wins.

[Ian]

MOTD are going to be showing "classic highlights", chosen by their pundits:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52107168

And this Friday Sky are showing the 4-3 between Liverpool and Newcastle from the 90s. I think in its entirety.

[Giggles]

Second Captains were ‘live’ tweeting one of those the other evening too, could be the same one.

[ScousePig]

If any of you watched Sunderland till I die on Netflix last year, Season 2 has been released this morning.

[Mike]

Ooh, i enjoyed season one, just because it was such doom and gloom.

[Manc]

Does the cabby feature?

[Kikó]

IPTV is re-running the 06/07 United Meelan game at 12 on the PPV channels.

[mo]

If any of you watched Sunderland till I die on Netflix last year, Season 2 has been released this morning.

Noice. Cheers for that - timing is spot on!

[ScousePig]

Ooh, i enjoyed season one, just because it was such doom and gloom.

This is the season where we bounce back in style, lolling our way to the Division Three title and promises of a swift Premier League return become more of a reality.

Wait.


Does the cabby feature?

No idea. I've started recognising faces this season though, and a number of people who are interviewed/shot sit near me in the ground.

[Spikey M]

This is the season where we bounce back.

https://img.gifglobe.com/grabs/partridgecloud/S02E01/gif/aJQlru3HUK8s.gif

[Shindig]

I've started watching Premier Passions. Peter Reid's just suggested the play short, sharp passes against an unbeaten (18 games) Wimbledon. It's gonna be special.

[Mazuuurk]

FM is filling this void a tiny little bit for me.

But the weekends don't feel like weekends anymore :(

[Mellberg]

Rolf Harris' bounce must've been short lived.

[Ian]

But the weekends don't feel like weekends anymore :(

I dunno if you mean specifically because of football or generally, but yeah I'm feeling a bit like this.

I've got an early finish on Friday and I can honestly say that I don't give a shit.

[Spikey M]

I'm not using 1 second of my annual leave until this shit is over.

Assuming it's over before next April, anyway. :*)

[Shindig]

I've got a week booked in June which I'll probably end up keeping. I've already scrapped a week last month and everyone will be piling in to fill out the rest of the year.

[Spikey M]

I've got a week booked in June which I'll probably end up keeping. I've already scrapped a week last month and everyone will be piling in to fill out the rest of the year.

That's your employers problem. If there's no time for me to use it then I'll happily be paid for it / carry it over.

[Ian]

I'm not using 1 second of my annual leave until this shit is over.

Assuming it's over before next April, anyway. :*)

I dunno what to do. Our managers are asking us to still take at least a day or two here and there so we're not all trying to use a month of holiday around Christmas or carrying over shitloads. And also just because, y'know, time not working is a good thing.

But any time I look at the calendar to see when i might take some the feeling of "WHY WOULD I WASTE MY HOLIDAYS ON THIS SHIT?" is hard to escape.

Got a long weekend for the bank holiday coming up next weekend, I'll test the waters with that.

[Shindig]

That's your employers problem. If there's no time for me to use it then I'll happily be paid for it / carry it over.

Aye, I think I can carry five over. I'll see what's up around June.

[Jimmy Floyd]

As the last man on the burning deck, I'm not sure how I can possibly take any until Team Furlough return, so the last part of the year will be fun.

[SvN]

That's your employers problem. If there's no time for me to use it then I'll happily be paid for it / carry it over.

Employers can tell you when to take your holiday, and there's nothing you can do about it.

[Spikey M]

I can strop like nobody has ever stropped before.

[Waffdon]

Rangers putting season tickets on sale from next week. They’re going to die again :drool:

[Shindig]

Half-way through Premier Passions. I forgot they went after Tomasson. There's some gold in this. Everything around the stadium decor, the fan with the missing ear, Peter Reid's internal transfer policy and then settling for Waddle, etc. And I forgot just how shite Lionel Perez was.

[SvN]

I started watching it after your post earlier. I listened to the Quickly Kevin podcast about it a while ago and been meaning to watch it.

Peter Reid being ridiculously tight is hilarious, but like you said, the stuff about stadium decor (fucking chandeliers :D) and the constant MONEY IS NO OBJECT attitude is brilliant television.

[Shindig]

"We can't have red in the changing rooms, Sorry." :D

[SvN]

I'm literally on that scene now. The woman spouts complete nonsense, talking about having wasps on cushions in the away dressing room :D

[Danny]

And now I am going to watch it. This should have been the TTH watch along :drool:

[Shindig]

Bloody hell. Episode 5 is pure Spinal Tap.

[Giggles]

What is it? The Sunderland thing?

[Shindig]

Premier Passions. The Sunderland thing from Peter Reid's time. It's all on youtube.

[Don]

Listen man, I was gonna let it slide but my twitter informs me Guendouzi is trending and I click to see how many minutes he was without oxygen or something and apparently some TV programme is doing a Guendouzi-McTominay debate. I mean I like the sport as much as the next utter saddo but fucking hell :D

[ScousePig]

Half-way through Premier Passions. I forgot they went after Tomasson. There's some gold in this. Everything around the stadium decor, the fan with the missing ear, Peter Reid's internal transfer policy and then settling for Waddle, etc. And I forgot just how shite Lionel Perez was.

I'll have to give it another go, I'm not sure I ever watched it properly.

[ScousePig]

What is it? The Sunderland thing?


If you've not seen either, it might be interesting to compare the two documentaries. Same club, different world.

Although we're always in the shit, so there's that.

[Ian]

Listen man, I was gonna let it slide but my twitter informs me Guendouzi is trending and I click to see how many minutes he was without oxygen or something and apparently some TV programme is doing a Guendouzi-McTominay debate. I mean I like the sport as much as the next utter saddo but fucking hell :D

That sounds like the sort of shit Sky would put on THE DEBATE.

Being discussed by Stuart Pearce and Matt Murray or some shit.

[Lewis]

The Premier League YouTube channel has managed to top its goal line clearances compilation with a best of shots hitting the posts.

[Jimmy Floyd]

We've fallen a long way from the days of van Nistelrooy/Henry.

I remember having a year-long Hasselbaink/Sheringham war with a Spurs fan at school. Those were the days.

[Mellberg]

Dwight Yorke or Paul Furlong. Genuinely.

[Mellberg]

Interesting stance from UEFA today. Sure their president was talking about cancellation last week. Unless they're just trying to align all the members following Belgium's declaration.

I don't really care tbh. But there we go.

[Ian]

If FIFA and UEFA were to somehow collapse out of all this that'd really make it all worthwhile.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It will be hilarious to see how they attempt to put the gravy train back on the tracks. Logically, local football should recover a lot quicker than football which requires international air travel, and that could properly fuck them.

[Gray Fox]

Premier League clubs have agreed a payment of £125m will go to the EFL and National League.

Also agreed that the season likely wont be starting in May but it will finish when safe to do so.

[bruhnaldo]

link?

[Gray Fox]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52148955

Also donating £20m to the NHS.

[bruhnaldo]

We all know i'm overwhelmingly basic.

"The Premier League will advance £125m to the EFL and National League, and give £20m towards the NHS."

This seems a bit backwards or?

[bruhnaldo]

Also imagine being Bury right now. Bailouts apparently going countrywide but you've shuttered just months before.

[Shindig]

This would've also killed them.

[Bob Sacamano]

1245669439128862722

[Shindig]

Dance of the Knights is fucking mint. :(

[Spikey M]

1245669439128862722

I hate that cunt.

[Jimmy Floyd]

https://theathletic.com/1705187/2020/04/04/soccer-am-tim-lovejoy-helen-chamberlain/?redirected=1

On a similar theme of pathos, for anyone with an Athletic access this whole thing is just pure Lovejoy gold.

[Manc]

Helen was never a looker.

[Lewis]

https://theathletic.com/1705187/2020/04/04/soccer-am-tim-lovejoy-helen-chamberlain/?redirected=1

On a similar theme of pathos, for anyone with an Athletic access this whole thing is just pure Lovejoy gold.

Copy and paste for the lads.

[Andy]

Running for more than 25 years, Soccer AM has been one of the most influential football shows ever made. In the “perfect storm” of late 1990s Britain, it gained a cult following, and made Tim Lovejoy and Helen Chamberlain household names. Here is its full story, told by the people who made it…

Russ Williams (presenter, 1994 to 1996)
Helen Chamberlain (presenter, 1994 to 2017)
Tim Lovejoy (exec producer and presenter, 1996 to 2007)
Julian Holmes (vision mixer, director, 1996-)
Neil Smythe (producer, 1999-2007)
Chris Nutbeam (producer, 2003-2013)
Robbie Knox (producer, 2000-2007)
James “Rocket” Long (producer, 1998-2017)
Rob Wakeling (exec producer, 2007 to 2015)
Andy Goldstein (presenter, 2007-2008)
Max Rushden (presenter, 2008-2015)
Lloyd Griffith (presenter, 2017 to 2019)
John “Fenners” Fendley (producer 1996-2007, exec producer and presenter, 2015-)

Russ Williams: “The sole motivation for everything Sky Sports did in those days was to encourage people to get satellite dishes. I was hired by Vic Wakeling and Mark Sharman in 1994. Vic had set up two shows in the mornings, Soccer AM on a Saturday, and Soccer Extra on a Sunday. Bradley Walsh used to come on a lot, he knew his onions. (Former Tottenham and England defender) Gary Stevens came in as the football expert. We’d show all the highlights, we would look forward to the games. We’d do the football weather. The studio was so small, and we wouldn’t get fans in, that came in later. In those days, people would phone in. There was no internet, you couldn’t text in, but you could fax. There weren’t many people faxing in, from memory. It was completely another world.

Helen Chamberlain: “Sky Sports had just launched Sky Sports 2 and they needed stuff to fill it. At the start we’d all be sat in the same place for the entire four hours. It was just a lot of VTs and bits and pieces — putting something on to fill a gap.”

Russ: “I got moved off Soccer AM in 1996 to go and host the Endsleigh League, and my match summariser was Alan Brazil. They kept Helen on, but obviously they knew that they had to find a replacement.”

Tim Lovejoy: “I was working on the Big Breakfast. At that time most people in TV didn’t take football very seriously, but I loved it. I wrote to Sky and asked if they had any jobs going. I got called in and Mark Sharman offered me the role of producer of Soccer AM and Soccer Extra. I thought ‘that’s a lot of work and I’d have to take a bit of a pay cut to do it’. So I said no… Then they called me back and said I could produce and present it — it was like a dream job. I said yes. I was going to be player-manager!”

Helen: “Tim turned up and said, ‘I love Soccer AM but it’s really boring. I want every Saturday to be like the build-up to the FA Cup final’. When Tim came in and started doing funny stuff I just thought ‘oh my god, this is what I want to do’. I didn’t want to do serious telly, I just wanted to do fucking about.”

Tim: “It was a really exciting time in television. It was the 90s, there was Britpop, the British art scene, all that stuff going on. It was fantastic, it was exciting, just a thrilling time. The mantra in television was ‘push the boundaries as much as you can’. These days it’s more like ‘please stay within the boundaries as much as you can.’

Julian Holmes: “Tim gave Soccer AM its flavour, its attitude. He gave it that freedom and licence to be a bit knockabout, irreverent, anarchic, just a little bit Tiswas. That’s when Soccer AM really found its voice.”

Tim: “The first thing I did — it was old-school, you’ve got to remember — was to say ‘we’ve got to get rid of this woman, she’s rubbish, what the hell is she doing on the show?’ You’ve got to remember at the time it was a very male-dominated sport. And then ‘why is it called Soccer AM and not Football AM?’ We were told: ‘It’s Soccer AM, shut up, that’s what it’s going to be called.’ Then I started talking to Helen and immediately was like, ‘oh my god, this woman knows more about football than I ever have done.’”

Helen: “Tim wasn’t a presenter. For his first couple of weeks, he thought it was easy, but he was shit. It didn’t take him long, only a couple of weeks. But for his first few shows, I think he thought ‘I need this girl’, because I bailed him out over and over again.

Tim: “Helen taught me so much, she saved my arse in the first season because I was all over the place. She was so kind and generous and such a great presenter. She absolutely got me out of every hole. And she could present to timing, she was amazing. She also knew everything there was to know about football.

Russ: “Tim and Helen invited me on their first show funnily enough, we did this handover. I did get a sense it was going to go in a new direction. And as Sky’s audience was organically growing, it would pick up more viewers. They very cleverly tapped into the Britpop music scene at that time.”

Tim: “I had to find someone to work the gallery. I contacted a guy called Andy Harris who I’d worked with at the Big Breakfast. He’s better known as ‘Shandy, the Gooner in the Gallery’. Sadly he passed away a few years ago. He would go into the bosses and say ‘we need more, we need a bigger studio, we need this, we need that’, and I never had the balls to do that. Without him I don’t think the show would have become as big as it was.”

Julian: “Andy, working behind the scenes, was just as much the brains of the Saturday morning stuff as Tim. He was just a deeply, deeply infectious Arsenal fan. Having someone at the centre of the production team that loved football that much, how could the show not be successful?”

Neil Smythe: “Tim and Andy Harris had come from the Big Breakfast, which was this crazy mix of cultural references. He brought that to Soccer AM. There was so much Chris Evans in what we did, even though he wasn’t there.”

Tim: “I loved all the excitement that went with football. But I wanted to make an entertainment show. I wanted to use football to make entertainment. I realised that football and music went hand in hand. We realised there was a massive hole in the market for like-minded people who loved footballers, indie bands, the urban music scene, soap stars — all that stuff that we loved. It was around the time that everyone really started loving football. People started really buying into football, so it became easier and easier.”

Rocket: “The style of the show was very Big Breakfast. It was organised chaos, a bit of carnage. The camera’s whipping round, and you never know what you’re going to see next.”

Tim: I wanted to make a football show that you could enjoy without liking football. It was people having fun, and I’ve always thought that’s what TV should be. There were a couple of people who worked on the show who really, really loved football and took it really seriously but my thinking was ‘hold on, football’s about entertainment and having a good time’. The more political side of it all, to me, wasn’t something I was interested in.”


The on-screen chemistry between Lovejoy and Chamberlain was almost instant (Photo: Sky Sports)
Helen: “I was a football fan, not a fricking expert. I can spot a Rotherham shirt from 100 paces, but I couldn’t tell you the best right-back in world football. That was another reason why Tim and I worked so well together. He was the one saying ‘all of the shows on TV, they analyse everything, they criticise managers, they criticise chairmen, they criticise referees, he did this wrong, let’s have a look at that.’ We got sick of it. And we were just the antidote to all of that in-depth analysis.”

Tim: “Getting Robbie Fowler on was a real turning point. We couldn’t believe we’d got Robbie Fowler on, it was absolutely huge. He came on the show and started taking the mickey out of Chelsea. But Chelsea had just come back from 2-0 down against Liverpool to win 4-2 (in January 1997). I just put my fingers up, and said ‘4-2, Robbie’. It was a real changing moment. That someone had said to a footballer, ‘I’m taking you on here as a Chelsea fan versus a Liverpool player.’ He laughed, we all laughed, it was great.

“I just remember thinking ‘oh god, am I going to get away with this?’ and Robbie laughed. It was so cool. Because I don’t think TV presenters had really taken the mickey out of footballers like that before. We took the mickey with the footballers. I think that was the difference. I never wanted to offend any of the footballers. We always wanted the footballers to feel like they could watch it and enjoy the show. I always wanted the footballers to tune in and think ‘it’s our show as well’.”

Helen: “There was such a feeling around the show. People would go to a match on a Saturday, and there would always be a moment in the show where people would go: ‘Did you see Soccer AM this morning?’ It was, for a while, that thing that everybody watched. It’s difficult to say it was a cult following, but that’s what other people called it. We never called it anything. We just turned up and did Soccer AM every week.”

Tim: “We found out Noel Gallagher was watching the show and we could not believe it. When we got him on the show it was absolutely huge. We got him a few times and it was fantastic. And the great thing was that when we got people like Noel Gallagher and Ray Winstone on the show they weren’t doing it for publicity. When they were after publicity they’d do all the other TV shows. When they weren’t they’d go ‘right, now we can go on Soccer AM and mess about.’ They used to love coming on. Suddenly all the music PR people are getting in touch going ‘can I get my band on your show?’ The music industry was changing and people were having to work a lot harder for their cash. Then we started getting our pick of guests.”

Rocket: “The big thing for Soccer AM was that we embraced the music scene, with your Noel Gallaghers being on. Your rock and roll stars wanted to come on Soccer AM, talk football, have a laugh and do the catwalk with Tim. As soon as you get a few big names, suddenly it becomes the place to be.”

Tim: “Footballers really wanted to come on because it was seen as a cool show to be on. They were only allowed on if they were injured or suspended and it got harder and harder as the years went on. Sir Alex Ferguson never let us have a player in his whole tenure at Manchester United. Then we heard Gerard Houllier didn’t want his players to come on. Then Arsenal stopped their players from coming on. At least Jose Mourinho loved us. I once went to a Chelsea do, and he walked in to a crowded room, spotted me and walked straight over. ‘Hey, Soccer AM guy! We love your show, it’s great for morale in the morning, getting all the players ready for the game.’”

Tim: “My bosses at Sky Sports left me alone because they were busy getting so much live sport out. On those other shows, there’s the producer, the exec producer, the commissioning editor and the lawyers, and you have go through all those different stages before something gets out on TV. That makes it quite tough to push the boundaries too much. But on Soccer AM, basically everything stopped with me. I just decided what went on TV. The stuff we were doing didn’t go through any lawyers. There’s no such thing as TV without gatekeepers anymore, this was the last thing. And it was only because we were an entertainment show on a sport channel and no one really knew what to do with us. It would never happen again. That’s why it’s such a freak of nature. We ended up being an entertainment show on a sports channel.”

Neil: “The origin of ‘Save Chip’ was that Tim walked in one morning, and said ‘my mate Chip can’t watch as much football as he wants because of what’s happening at home.’ That turned into, six months on, me trawling through tapes of the Ashes test in Australia trying to find a banner that somebody told me they’d held up halfway through. Knowing that we’d tapped into something that so many people were getting involved in, I can’t even put it into words. We were like a social media TV show before social media even existed.”

Robbie: I remember when Liverpool won the UEFA Cup in 2001 there was a big ‘Save Chip’ banner on the front of the open-top bus the team rode through the city. It was on a Football Manager game, in the background on EastEnders. It was everywhere.”

Tim: That’s when we realised the impact we were having. Bands were going on stage and putting signs up, ‘Save Chip’, it was an incredible time.”

Helen: “It was like a club, only a select group of people would know what we were laughing at. ‘Save Chip’ and all the little phrases and sayings. The ‘Easy’ chant that spilled into the darts for several years. I’d sit there watching the darts and go ‘oh shit, this has come from Soccer AM’.”


Chester players line up for the ‘Save Chip’ cause (Photo: Sarah Bruntlett – EMPICS)
Rocket: “We used to get a lot of fan mail. The Third Eyes, I think, were the key to how big we were. We would ask people to point out weird things they’d seen at football or on TV. We would get inundated with letters and emails. ‘I spotted this in the 52nd minute of the United game, look out for the steward falling down the stairs’ or whatever. Some of them were hilarious.”

Robbie Knox: “In the run-up to the 2005 election, Vic said ‘have you tried to get Gordon Brown on? Give him a ring’. I phoned up (Brown’s special adviser) Damian McBride and he said ‘I’m sure Gordon will do it, we watch it all the time in the office on Saturdays’. I got an email from Vic the day before. ‘As the probable next Prime Minister, he will have a big say in Premier League football rights, so can you make sure you make a good impression?’ Just before the interview, our cameraman had to go to the toilet. We said ‘no, Gordon Brown’s going to be here in two minutes and it’s just a five or ten-minute interview.’ But he went, Gordon Brown turned up with his aides, I had to make small talk with them while we waited. Then the cameraman came back and said something along the lines of: ‘I’d give that five minutes!’ But Gordon Brown’s knowledge of football was unbelievable, he was rattling off starting elevens of old Raith Rovers teams.”

Robbie Knox: “When Oasis brought out ‘Don’t Believe The Truth’ in 2005, I went to see them at the Clapham Grand. We worked our way forward to the front. I’d never met Liam before but I knew he watched Soccer AM. They started playing Wonderwall and he said ‘alright lad, how are you doing?’ Then I saw Noel look up, see me and start laughing. Just before Noel did ‘Don’t Look Back in Anger’ he moved to the microphone and said ‘well, well, well…. Robbie Knox.’”

Helen: “Tim and I never ever got lost in all of that stuff. Tim wandered over to me one Friday and said ‘Max Clifford has been on the phone, he wants to meet us both.’ This was about four or five years in when it was properly at its peak. Tim said: ‘I don’t know how I feel about that.’ And I went: ‘me neither’. ‘Should we fuck it off?’ ‘Yeah’. We carried on with our normal lives. Neither of us wanted to spoil it. Neither of us wanted to be famous. I was never in FHM, I was never in Maxim, I was never in Loaded. We just cracked on and did our thing. Neither of us had the desire to be crazy famous.”

Tim: “I started going to football and people would go ‘Lovejoy! Lovejoy!’ Bizarrely everyone starts calling you by your surname. We were getting letters to begin with, we were getting quite a lot of interaction, but it was when I was going to football matches that I realised a lot of people were watching the show. I was going out and suddenly people were coming up to me. And they seemed to have such a love for the show, they knew the catchphrases.

“Then one day I saw a kid at a game, I think it was Liverpool, with a sign saying ‘Lovejoy is a legend’. We saw it and I said on the show ‘If anyone does that and gets it on TV, I’ll send you a fiver’. So many people did it that I had to say I wasn’t giving any more fivers away because it would have cost me thousands. People were just going everywhere and writing ‘Lovejoy’s a legend’ to try to get on TV. Political broadcasts, bowls matches, Crufts. It was a bit embarrassing to be honest, but I didn’t realise it would have an impact like that. But we all went with it, we were all laughing, it was all very self-deprecating.”

Tim: “What I worked out at the beginning was that we were all going to have to be committed to the show. We were asking the team to work really hard and I realised that meant they had to have some ownership of it. And I think that’s what you saw on screen. All the people had ownership of it. It was their show just as much as mine. Everyone who came up with an idea ended up on screen, everyone had their moment, everyone shone, and everyone felt great about it.”

Neil: “The beauty of the show was that it was a team effort. Even though I was on one of the lowest rungs of the ladder, everyone had equal responsibility for making the show tick, in terms of coming up with ideas and executing them. And Tim and Andy were fantastic at giving us responsibility. Tim nailed it at the time. He said ‘You won’t know a team like this again.’”

Helen: “People worked so hard. We made it look like we just turned up on a Saturday morning and had a massive laugh. But people don’t realise how hard you have to work to make it look like we just turned up on a Saturday morning and had a massive laugh.”

Neil: “They were the highest highs I have ever had in my career, and some of the lowest lows. Pure tiredness. I slept under my desk fairly regularly on a Friday night, and I wasn’t the only one. Nowadays it wouldn’t be allowed. It probably wasn’t allowed then.”

Chris Nutbeam: “The hours were incredible. Thursdays we’d finish at 10 or 11pm. Fridays you wouldn’t finish before midnight, ever. Sometimes you’d finish on the late edit at 2 or 3am, sometimes you wouldn’t go home, you’d stay in the edit suite, and find an hour on the sofa to sleep.”

Rocket: “Sometimes it was stressful. At times you’d end up working the whole night. Friday night we’d go all the way through. The amount of times I slept on the green room sofa, then wake up at 5am, do rehearsals, then perform on camera with a couple of hours’ sleep. But that was part and parcel of it, part of the excitement, part of the appeal. It wasn’t polished, it was very rough and ready, and when things went wrong people used to love it.”

Chris: “I was once asked to find a lamb for a gag, out of lambing season. A real lamb. I just started driving around asking anyone if they’d seen anything in the fields. Phoning farmers. All sorts. Lambing season is spring, I think this was September. I remember, I was frantically driving around the M25 and just spotted some lambs in a field. Looked on a map, found out what the farm was, phoned the farmer. The next thing I knew I had a lamb to film a gag with Sheephead.”

Neil: “We were such a close team that naturally the highs were high and the lows were low. When you had a fall-out, it felt like your world was falling apart. We didn’t always get on. Tim and I had some huge rows. When you fall out with a mate, who’s also your boss, it takes an emotional toll. It was a tough environment, but I stuck at it because I wanted to make the best show. I’d come home some weekends and I’d be close to tears. It would be a 40 to 42-week stint. We couldn’t take holidays until the summer. We couldn’t take time off during the season. It’s that constant grind, an emotional grind, it’s a physical and a mental grind. And undoubtedly there were times when we were all burned out.”

Tim: “I did apologise to some of them when I left, and told them ‘I worked you far too hard and I feel embarrassed about it’. They all said ‘but we loved it.’ I think that came across on screen.”

Tim: Every time you had a hit — and maybe out of every three sketches, one would be crap, one would be alright, and one would be a massive hit — it was such an amazing feeling. It was like ‘we’ve done it, we’ve created a little bit of magic.'”

Chris: “Tim was iconic at that stage. He was front of house, like the king. The exec producer and presenter. He had a real aura about him when he walked into the room. It was like: sit up straight, work hard, because there was a lot of expectation from him. And that equated to the success of the show.”

Rocket: “Tim obviously had great banter. He worked so well because he was a good-looking guy, good fashion sense. He was the kind of guy that your mates would want to have a beer with down the pub, but also girls would probably want to be with. He ticked both boxes.”

Andy Goldstein: “Tim could laugh at himself. He didn’t take himself too seriously. He was just a bloke’s bloke. You could identify with him. If you met him in the pub you could go and have a couple of drinks with him. If you knew Tim, that’s probably the last thing he’d want to do with you. He was great in that role.”

Julian: “Back then, if you go back 20-odd years, there was no suffering fools gladly. If you weren’t absolutely delivering and being brilliant, you were letting the team down, and you never wanted to do that. Individuals, across the team, would let you know you’ve dropped the ball there. If the producer or presenter had an amazing brainchild of an idea, and then you go and fluff it up? Quite often you’d see that with Tim for example. You could see he was annoyed that you had dropped the ball and ruined one of his ideas.”

Andy: “He was hard to work for. But that’s because he wanted perfection. He was a perfectionist, but you’ve got to be if you do a successful show. He worked everyone hard. He shouted a lot. He learned his trade from Chris Evans, and my understanding is Chris used to shout and scream quite a bit. Evans was incredibly successful, that show with Tim was incredibly successful. Quite often Tim would, in a break, get up and go into the gallery and have a scream and shout at people for getting things wrong. I saw him have a scream a few times. But that’s just the way he ran the ship.”

Neil: “Tim was a tough boss. He didn’t take himself too seriously, but he would be a bit more upset if something didn’t work, because he was the producer. I could sometimes see it in his eyes. He was really disappointed if something didn’t work.”

Chris: “I once had to walk down Oxford Street wearing a bikini and carrying a sign saying ‘LOSER’ because I had messed up my words on the show. And it was funny. Imagine putting on a bikini, walking down Oxford Street, saying ‘my name is Chris Nutbeam, I messed up my lines and I’m a loser.’ Looking back, it wasn’t fun all the time, there was a lot of pressure. But when Tim told you you were brilliant, you’d feel ‘this guy loves my stuff.’ That was the mentality he installed.”

Julian: “Tim was just focused, really, more than anything. Because he knew what he wanted. And that’s what’s great about visionaries. They know how it should be.”

Tim: “I’d done 11 years, and I absolutely adored the show. But we were being treated like a production team of any other part of Sky. For a few years I’d been saying: if someone appears on screen can they get a few quid more? It started getting embarrassing in the end. Some of them were getting paid so little money, they were saying to me ‘Tim, I’ve got to leave soon, because I’ve been doing eight years of this.’ I went to see the bosses and said: ‘Look, is there any way that we can pay the guys proper money?’ They just said: ‘No, they’re researchers and assistant producers’.

“I really pleaded with them to pay the team what they deserved. But I understand why the bosses couldn’t do it. They still saw us, understandably, as a load of blokes messing about on TV, even though our ratings were huge. I wanted to keep the team together. I just couldn’t face losing them. Soccer AM wasn’t about Helen and me. It was about Sheephead and Fenners and Robbie and Neil and Rocket and Tubes. It was about all of us. I couldn’t face doing the show with all the big stars leaving.

“An opportunity came along to go and create online content. We went off. I managed to find a way that I could get them all paid more money. I went into bed with Simon Fuller. We created a channel called Channel Bee. As everybody knows and tells me all the time: we were just too ahead of our time, really. Videos were still buffering and we were trying to put out online content. Bizarrely, some of the online content we created is still viral now and doing the rounds. I just thought we were doing so much good material I wanted to try to keep the team together. You can’t blame anyone. The perfect storm had come to an end.”

Helen: “When Tim phoned me and said ‘I’ve gone’, I had that feeling in my stomach like when you break up with someone. Nothing feels right. You just feel a bit… lost. I wandered about for a bit, I didn’t really know what to do.”

Chris: “It was really hard, because Tim was the show. Not only who he was, but his values, the emphasis on creativity, the cult status. Everything was Tim. He takes everyone apart from me, Rocket and Tubes. You think, when you’re that young, Soccer AM was never going to end. Then they all go to 19 Entertainment, Simon Fuller’s place. And then you feel… actually quite lonely. You’re left there going, right, what do we do now?

Helen: “Vic Wakeling rang me and said ‘look, it’s going to be different but let’s crack on’. Because I’d already done the All Sports Show with Andy Goldstein for a few years. They didn’t tell him for a while that they were going to give him the show. We just assumed he would step up to Soccer AM. I thought ‘at least it’s not going to be completely different.’ I was 99 per cent thinking ‘oh my god, this is awful’, and 1 per cent thinking ‘alright — it’s just going to be a bit different.'”


Goldstein replaced Lovejoy in 2007 (Photo: Matthew Ashton, Getty Images)
Andy: “The reason Vic Wakeling started me on the Soccer AM All Sports Show, was because they were looking to get Tim’s replacement ready for whenever he left. I did the All Sports Show with Helen, and we hit it off instantly. When Tim left, I got the call from Vic. Tim took Fenners, Sheephead, Neil, all the brains of the show.”

Rob Wakeling: “I joined the show as Executive Producer when Tim and everyone left in the summer of 2007. It was ridiculously hard. We were really stuck. You didn’t need to make big sweeping changes, but you wanted to make enough changes so people could see it was different. With Soccer AM, everything you change is met with howls of derision. We were really on a hiding to nothing…”

Andy: “Before the first show, we had a meeting, everyone working on the show was there, and there were so many items that were still undecided. It was quite chaotic, quite worrying. One of them was the catwalk. Everyone was coming up with different ideas of how to replace it. We didn’t, so I did it, and I hated doing it. We should have just scrapped it. The right thing to do would have been to rip it up and start again. Get rid of the couches, get rid of the title music, keep the name ‘Soccer AM’ and start again. But we’re all wise after the event…”

Rocket: “Rob Wakeling came in having worked on ‘Dick and Dom in Da Bungalow’, which was a kids’ show, and I sometimes felt like he didn’t really understand what Soccer AM was. It was never really a kids’ show, it was an adults’ show that kids would enjoy. It started to get a little bit silly with some of the sketches. I always felt Soccer AM was funny, not silly. There’s a thin line between the two. It just wasn’t what I thought Soccer AM should be. It was quite hard to still be part of the team and see it all change so much.”

Andy: “It was difficult for Rob, because his dad was the boss, I get that. But his background was kids’ telly. And alarm bells started ringing for me in week one when he wanted to introduce a gunk tank into the show. Helen and I were like: ‘this isn’t kids’ TV’. I’m not sure whether or not it ever happened, I didn’t watch Soccer AM for years after I finished.

“Rob kept using the word ‘fun’. I don’t mind things being funny, but ‘fun’ is something my kids get up to. Also, comedy is very subjective. I would come up with something I thought was funny, and he’d turn round and say ‘that’s not funny’. I wouldn’t say we were at constant loggerheads, but we didn’t get on. The show was too big for him.”

Helen: “It was tough. Really tough. There was that unwritten Soccer AM style that everybody was familiar with. And then somebody comes along and their sense of humour is completely different. Rob thought dressing a man up as a woman was hilarious. So you’d have the pay-off to the gag being one of the crew walking on in a bikini and a wig. And you just had to go with it.”

Andy: “It was quite sad. I remember sitting on the couch numerous times and thinking ‘this isn’t as funny as it used to be’. But the brains had gone, the heart had gone. Helen was still there, I was there, but we would arrive on a Friday afternoon and the whole script had been written. So we would have no input into the show. You’d get there and read bits, ‘that doesn’t work, that’s not right’, it was quite difficult to do.”

Helen: “You have to respect the producer — what they say goes in, goes in. When somebody else came up with an idea that was very Soccer AM and had the rest of us laughing, we’d look up and Rob would be going ‘no, I don’t get it.'”

Rob: “Andy was on a hiding to nothing. He could have been the best presenter ever, and no matter who followed Tim, everyone was going to hate them. He was never going to win that one. He didn’t click and after a year of him doing the show the management decided we wanted to go elsewhere.”

Andy: “I was sad with the way it ended. I got called into Vic Wakeling’s office and I knew things weren’t good. He said ‘next year we are going to try something different — there’s going to be someone new next to Helen’. I knew exactly where he was going but I wanted to make things as difficult as possible for him, so I went ‘ah, there’s going to be three of us?’ He said, ‘no, you’re not doing it, it’s going to be Max Rushden.’

“Then I made a very quick decision in my head: I could either tell him what I thought of his son, and tell him to stick the whole job up his arse. Or, given my wife was pregnant and we had a mortgage, I could thank him very much for everything he’s done, and tell him that if anything was still about I’d be more than happy to work for Sky. I did the latter and he kept me on the Premier League snooker and the Mosconi Cup.”

Max Rushden: “I’d been sacked from the breakfast show on BBC Radio London and then gone to Talksport, where I was doing a current affairs show with Jodie Marsh. Then I got a phone call from Andy Melvin, the number two at Sky Sports. I went in to see him and Vic Wakeling. We just talked about Cambridge United for an hour. A couple of months later Vic called me in again. ‘Would you like to do Soccer AM?’ There was no audition, no screen test, nothing. Thank god, I would have shat myself. I actually then went to do an audition for Blue Peter and got down to the final three, but I didn’t really want it. Sky then put a secretary in a black cab from Isleworth to my house in Clerkenwell with a contract for me to sign and told me not to tell anyone about it. The whole thing was just baffling.”

Helen: “Max is the loveliest guy in the world. You can’t dislike Max.”

Max: “I remember the phone ringing, ‘my name’s Olivia and I’m your stylist, what clothes do you wear?’ I’d probably worn the same blue jumper from 1996 to 2008. We rehearsed a bit, and I was so nervous. They didn’t have a clue who I was. I was nervous to meet Tubes. On the first show I got in so early, I was like a rabbit in the headlights. I was so scared I dropped my phone in the toilet.

“The good thing was that Twitter didn’t exist. I don’t think I’d have kept the job if it had. It took me a year or even two to really relax and be myself. Social media would have been brutal. Andy Goldstein would probably say the same. And he was actually pretty good at it. I don’t give a shit now about getting stick, because I feel like I’m good at what I do. But I wasn’t good to start with. Not being confident meant I didn’t fight for anything. At the start, I literally did whatever I was told. Anything they wanted me to do, I would just do it.”

Rocket: “When Max first came in I wasn’t sure he was right for the job. Lovejoy was very cool, Goldstein was quite a cool guy. Max came in as an Oxford graduate, Cambridge fan, played the clarinet, a bit square. I was thinking ‘this isn’t the kind of guy you want to have a beer with.’ He didn’t have the rapport with the Soccerettes that Tim or Goldstein had. However, Max embraced his geekiness. He never tried to be something he wasn’t. And people loved him for it.”


Rusden and Chamberlain host the show (Photo: Sky Sports)
Max: “I didn’t see eye to eye with the producer about what was funny. And that is quite hard. Rob might get a bit of flak from the others. But I think that is what would have happened with whoever had the final say. You can’t define what’s funny, so if you have your ideas rejected then you take it personally — and I certainly did sometimes. But for some of the team, Tubes, Rocket and Adam, I think it’s important to remember how much screen time he gave them, which I think has helped them going on to do so well either at Sky or elsewhere”

Max: “The Soccerette (a brief section of the show where a young woman was invited to walk up and down a “catwalk” with one of the presenters) was a huge part of the show when I arrived. I didn’t love it. It would be too self-righteous of me to say I found the whole thing misogynistic. I did a bit, but I just wasn’t, and never have been, very good at flirting.

Andy: “I was uncomfortable doing it. I didn’t enjoy doing it, for a number of reasons. It wasn’t my gig, it was Tim’s. At the time, I didn’t really think about the exploitation of women, because no one really thought about it. Because otherwise it wouldn’t have been done. I don’t look back now and squirm, I just didn’t enjoy it.”

Helen: “Soccer AM was laddish, but I don’t like that phrase ‘laddish’. I’ve been accused before of ‘trying to be like one of the lads’. And I just always screw my face up and go ‘this is me’. By trying to say I’m ‘one of the lads’, are you trying to say I should be in a fucking kitchen somewhere? Or shopping? I don’t know what your point is. This is how women are. We do drink, smoke, we do swear. So stop saying ‘you’re laddish’. But I think we’ve now way moved on from those days anyway.”

Max: “I remember being told to be a bit more flirtatious with the Soccerette. I think I probably tried to, rather than just saying ‘no’. Quite soon after Keys and Gray left Sky, it ended.”

Rocket: “We had to change the show quite rapidly after the Keys and Gray incident. A magnifying glass had been put on all the shows. Is this 2011 behaviour? Should we be doing this? It was time to become a little bit more politically correct. Which is right, you’ve got to move with the times.”

Rob: “When Soccer AM first started out it was very much ‘lad culture’ and Loaded, those were the things people were interested in. We always had a lot of female fans. We ummed and ahhed about changing it, male Soccerettes, different ages, and in the end we decided to get rid of it. It wasn’t really needed any more. The Soccerette going was a big thing. You don’t get emails and letters saying ‘well done for getting rid of the Soccerette’, but there were a lot of people unhappy that we got rid of it…

“We became the first live show on Sky to go on a delay. That’s standard on most American TV but not in the UK. We were the exception. Peter Hook from New Order came on. He told us two stories. The first was about someone having a piss in a bucket — he used the word ‘piss’ and we had to apologise — then a minute later he told story about parking his car at the Hacienda, returning to find Ryan Giggs sat on the bonnet, and Peter Hook telling Giggs to ‘fuck off’. The story was very funny, but we had to apologise again.

“Management told us it was happening too often and then we went on a delay. Originally a three-second delay, then 10 seconds. In theory that should have been the end of it but the people operating the button quite often used to miss the swearing. So we’d say ‘Max and Helen, we think we’ve dipped it, but can you please apologise just in case?’ We had this ridiculous scenario. We would get emails ‘what are you talking about, no one swore, all we got is silence.’”

Chris: “I was booking football guests. We wanted Shaun Goater so I just texted a number saved in my phone as ‘Shaun Agent’ saying ‘can Shaun do the show on Saturday?’ The reply came back ‘Yeah, no problem, speak nearer the time.’ On Friday I phoned the agent to ask whether Shaun was looking forward to doing the show. The agent said ‘Yeah, he’s really looking forward to it, he’s been doing loads of stuff and got loads to talk about.’ I asked him what sort of stuff he’d been doing and the agent said ‘He’s been doing a lot of panto.’ In my head, for a split second, I was like ‘Shaun Goater’s been doing panto, that’s unusual.’

“But something didn’t feel right. And as I started talking, it dawned on me this was the agent of Shaun Williamson, Barry from Eastenders. Not Shaun Goater. I will never forget the fear. I walked over to the producers and said, ‘I’ve really fucked up. I’ve booked the wrong Shaun.’”

Max: “We asked him all the Shaun Goater questions, like what it was like to score in the Manchester derby.”

Max: “In 2015 a new boss, Barney Francis, came in and didn’t think I was any good. He was keen to get me out of there, and that’s his prerogative. I was unlucky to lose it, but I was much luckier to get it in the first place. It afforded me all the opportunities I have had now. It was great. The whole thing was just fun.”

Fenners: “I came back to Sky 10 years ago and worked on shows like ‘Take It Like a Fan’ and ‘Fantasy Football Club’, then Soccer AM came back around in 2015. My feeling was the show needed to change and move on. I felt it had lost its way a little bit and had got away from football. Through no one’s fault, it was just the way it panned out. The show had gone a bit down of a more celebrity route. It was getting some great names. They trusted me because I’d worked on it for such a long time before.”

Rocket: “It was good to get Fenners back. What Fenners did, which I think it needed, was to strip it back. Let’s get rid of all the nonsense, all the silliness, and make it a football show again.”

Fenners: “Soccer AM’s the football show that isn’t really a football show, but you can only say that if you have strong elements of football within it. Once the footballers started watching Soccer AM again we knew we were turning the ship round.”

Julian: “For me, getting Fenners back was incredibly important. You want someone that’s bought it, you want someone that’s got a passion. Fenners grew up on the show, he’s funny, he’s talented, he’s witty, he gets the audience.”

Helen: “I left in 2017. I spent nearly half of my life sitting on that sofa. I was there for nearly 23 years. That’s a long time to have any job never mind a job in broadcasting. I had the farm to see to. I wanted to rescue more dogs and breed sheep and chickens. So I didn’t have time for Saturday mornings any more.”

Fenners: “When you lose someone like Helen Chamberlain, it’s a huge void to fill. We didn’t really know what to do. We talked about it and felt that if we just got another girl in there, what’s the point in doing in that? Helen’s amazing and brilliant, it just would have felt strange to me. I’d spoken to Lloyd Griffith, he’s got something about him, he’s our sort of person, he’s got that sense of humour.”

Lloyd Griffith: “I’d been a guest on it and kept in contact with a few of the guys on the show. I really got on with Fenners. I got approached, he said they’re looking to change it up a bit, bring on a couple of other hosts. Would I come on and do it with them? It was a no-brainer really. The show I watched as a kid, the show everyone watched as a kid.”

Fenners: “Then I’d gone to speak to Jimmy Bullard about doing more drills. I loved having Jimmy on, he added something that a lot of people couldn’t do, because he was football-famous, he was a larger than life personality within football. And he was still a brilliant footballer. Jimmy told me he wasn’t managing Leatherhead any more. My brain started going ‘can we get him on board?’ That would be three people, but it was like we needed two people to replace Helen because she was so good. As soon as I saw that opportunity I seized on it. Because I felt, the show will be different, and it has to be different. If Helen’s not going to be there, this is what Soccer AM needs.”

Lloyd: “With Jimmy on the sofa now, there’s genuine insight. When he does tactical analysis, it’s never boring, never inane. And he would often throw a raspberry mousse at my face at 10pm on a Friday evening. For banter. But it was never in malice.”

Fenners: “I get frustrated with people who say it’s not what it used to be, because we’re getting to a stage where I really feel we’ve hit upon something that would make it different. It gave us a new dimension. I think we’ve won a lot of the public over, from the noises that I hear, and I think we’ve won a lot of people within football back as well. I always felt that if we could get the right formula for the show, people would feel like that. I do feel that we’re getting close to it being a very, very good TV show again. ”

Tim: “I stopped watching it when I left, it was too hard to watch it. I tune in every now and then because Fenners is on it and I want to support him. Again, another crap analogy, it’s like watching your old girlfriend with another man. I couldn’t do it. I couldn’t watch it. So I stopped watching it totally. And then I started tuning in again to watch Fenners, because obviously I worked with him for years and he’s a top bloke.

“It’s too hard for me because I watch it all and I want to join in with it. I’d really like to input on the show and put stuff on there and I find it too hard.”

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Okay...

[Andy]

In typical Athletic fashion it's far too long.

[Lewis]

Tim Lovejoy comes out of that sounding quite good. I lolled at Channel Bee being 'too ahead of our time', but it probably was actually. That Joe shit and variousbible are clearly all descendants of it, so maybe Lovejoy has never got the credit he deserves.

[Giggles]

I’d need 6 weeks lockdown to get through that.

[Don]

You're better off not bothering unless you watched the show :cab:

[Giggles]

You're better off not bothering unless you watched the show :cab:

I watched it for years in the early days when I was fully into the league, but as that waned I stopped. It had become a complete banter fest anyway. I don’t know what the stupid little :cab: is for and why you think I didn’t watch it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

'Rocket' comes across as the biggest wrong un.

[Giggles]

Who was the dickhead on it in the earlier years too? Another with just a one word name?

[Spikey M]

This lockdown could go on for 7 years and I wouldn't be bored enough to read that.

[Spikey M]

Who was the dickhead on it in the earlier years too? Another with just a one word name?

Tubes?

[Giggles]

That was the clown. I had Tubs in my head.

[niko_cee]

Yeah, I was going to say Tubs. I ever got Soccer AM, it was just shit.

[Shindig]

The showboats wound up on youtube which was the only stuff I needed from that.

[Mellberg]

It's alright in its new format. Bullard and Fenners are good value and I like watching the odd Facebook video which actually involves football (Rivaldo, Ant Middleton and Serge Pizzorno come to mind), but they've produced A LOT of shit over the years.

[Jimmy Floyd]

In other news, Liverpool the latest to furlough their non playing staff. Lol

[niko_cee]

It's shambolic isn't it? You would have thought, at the very least, that this pay-cut the players are apparently taking would be put towards all the other (little people) wages. As it stands, the government are now comping the clubs, and will be getting less tax back off the reduced wages at the same time. They really should be told to do one.

[niko_cee]

At least they appear to be making up the 20% difference.

[Giggles]

The McCarthy era ends with a whimper, though it probably would have in Slovakia anyway.

https://www.offtheball.com/sport/the-mick-mccarthy-era-as-republic-of-ireland-manager-has-ended-994972

[Don]

I watched it for years in the early days when I was fully into the league, but as that waned I stopped. It had become a complete banter fest anyway. I don’t know what the stupid little :cab: is for and why you think I didn’t watch it.

Not everything revolves around your disgusting self. Was just showing my displeasure at having wasted my own time with it.

[Giggles]

Not everything revolves around your disgusting self. Was just showing my displeasure at having wasted my own time with it.

I had no way of knowing it was going to be your first ever time not being a smart cunt.

[Mellberg]

I'm picking up a bit of negative energy here lads.

[Don]

Shut your cunt.

[Giggles]

Harsh on Mellin that.

[Offshore Toon]

Giggles has lost it based on that post. Bottled it with a shit joke, straight out the Lovejoy textbook.

[Giggles]

Which was fitting.

[Offshore Toon]

Yeah, call him gay and you might pull it back if we're celebrating a time when Soccer AM was watchable.

I never could quite tell if it was good or not because I outgrew it by 14/15. I suspect it was not.

[Giggles]

Looking back it most definitely was not.

[Lofty]

Is Helen Chamberlain still fit?

[Giggles]

Is Helen Chamberlain still fit?

Maybe she became fit? She always had a raw head on her.

[Jimmy Floyd]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52168692

lol at these fucking wankers. Burn the whole thing down and start again.

[Giggles]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52168692

lol at these fucking wankers. Burn the whole thing down and start again.

It’s got to the stage where it going wallop is the only thing that can save it.

[Mellberg]

Arseholes. Putting pressure on for money at the expense of lives. Fuck it off.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I don't say this lightly, but I think there's a real case to actually abolish the Premier League at this point and reunite all clubs under the Football League umbrella so as to safeguard the sport in England at large. Will probably need nuclear winter before that happens though.

Now they've been forced to hand over £125 million in solidarity payments, why shouldn't that carry on happening? Rotherham and Wigan and Charlton having viable football clubs is far more in the national interest than Man City and Chelsea being 'competitive at Europe's top table' or whatever guff they would come up with.

[Don]

The fans are muggy enough to continue to support these cunts, I imagine, but one can only dream.

[Lewis]

This could have been a once in a lifetime opportunity to kill off half the teams overnight and go to three fully professional leagues like the Germans.

[Bob Sacamano]

I've just come across Griezmann's 'Making of a legend' documentary on Netflix, I don't think there is a more detestable modern day player.

[Lewis]

Why's that? Save us the watch.

[Jimmy Floyd]

German football is worthless, we don't want to be like them. We want to be like us but minus the parasites at the top.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I've just come across Griezmann's 'Making of a legend' documentary on Netflix, I don't think there is a more detestable modern day player.

Neymar and it's not even close.

[phonics]

If we're going for long articles. I thought this interview was very funny.

Johnny: “First up, how are you?”
Player X: “I’m fine. We’re all fine, thanks mate. Just trying to keep sharp. Are you two alright?”


J: “Yeah we’re well. The virus doesn’t seem to have reached here yet.”

P: “I suppose that’s the advantage of living somewhere a bit remote.”


J: “So has the club given you a training regime to keep fit?”

P: “Yeah, they have, but I know my own body. I know what I need to do. After all these years, you can feel it when you drop even just 5% of fitness. I’ll be blowing bubbles when we next play though.”


J: “So what are all your teammates doing to pass the time?”
P: (laughs) “The usual shit involving women and computer games!”


J: “OK, let’s get down to business. I want to get your perspective on the debate that’s raging about if players should take a pay cut or not. And Matt Hancock has just said players should be putting their hands in their pockets.”

P: “Him? I wouldn’t trust him as far as I could puke him. He’s just picking on an easy target. Why doesn’t he tell all his rich mates to cough up? All those c**** who fund his party? Fuck off.”


J: “So you don’t think players should donate money to the NHS or help pay the non-playing staff wages?

P: “You know my thoughts on our money. It’s absolutely disgusting the amount players get. It’s ridiculous. We’re just footballers, not brain surgeons. The fact I’m paid more money than an actual brain surgeon is fucking stupid. And all the while millions live in poverty, getting cans of beans from a food bank. How can that be? I couldn’t live with that, which is why I give it all away now.
“But the thing with this current situation is, it shouldn’t be left up to the lads to make individual donations. The non-playing staff wage bill isn’t that big. The club should fork out for that or the fucking owners should; they’re richer than any of us.”

“The FA or Premier League or PFA or whoever should just say ‘no money for three months, we’re putting it all into an account to donate it to the NHS and other charities.’ Make it compulsory and across the board, including directors. So no-one has to make a choice. Because some will give all their money and some only a few quid. There are greedy, selfish bastards in football like in any walk of life and there are lovely lads who’d do anything they can to help.”


J: “Yeah, that’s a good idea, because if you leave it up to players, there’ll be a press witch hunt to find out who has paid the most and who hasn’t paid anything.”
P: “Exactly, yeah. I hear people defending footballers. Saying there are lads who already donate money to various causes and do good work in the local community. And that’s right. But let me tell you, it is by no means everyone. But I’ll tell you this, none of my first team would miss three months’ money.”


J: “People do seem keen to defend footballers from attacks like Hancock’s, though. And you do see people saying footballers are always the target, not other wealthy people.”

P: “Hancock’s just a thicko politician. But we’re an easy target because the money is so stupid, isn’t it? That’s why it happens. And we’re public figures. Owners and directors are more anonymous. But it should be the same rule for everyone. No wages for three months for anyone. It’s embarrassing. You’ve got lads on £80,000 a week who literally have no idea what to do with all the money they’re still racking up, while you’ve got these NHS workers dying on their feet who can’t buy themselves a meal. That’s fucking wrong. If anything good can come out of this lockdown it’ll be that people really properly understand how things are with money in this country.”


J: “But plenty of people say it shouldn’t be down to the players, that the billionaire owners and companies should be forking out the money.”
P: “Well they should as well, obviously. That c*** who runs Spurs, Levy. What a greedy shite. The fact that his first instinct is to shave money off the lowest-paid staff is entirely typical of so many people at that level. Evil little c****. You’ve no idea. They wouldn’t piss on a nurse if they were on fire. They are only bothered about wealthy people. They think the wealthy are better people and more important. Seriously, they do. They wouldn’t understand why people would be disgusted at what he’s done there. But that doesn’t mean players shouldn’t be giving up their money as well. You get this a lot now don’t you?”


J: “What?”
P: “That thing – there’s a word for it – where people say you can’t have a pop at one group unless you have a pop at all the others.”


J: “Oh, whataboutery, you mean?”
P: “Yes. That’s it. Does my head in. So I can’t say footballers should donate their wages without making a fucking long list of all the others in society who also should? Fuck off, mate, eh?”


J: “We get it a lot when writing about almost everything. ‘You’ve written about this but what about that?’ Like I can’t write about anything unless I write about everything.”
P: “I don’t know how you do your job. The ignorant pricks would really wind me up.”


J: “Ha! At least I don’t get 30,000 people telling me to fuck off on a Saturday afternoon. Just to pull this back to the wages situation, why do you think footballers should be giving away all their wages? 100%. A lot of people will think that’s extreme.”
P: (groans) Look, look, players get the majority of money that comes into the club, don’t they? Most of the turnover of every club goes on wages. So if we’re not going to sort it out, who the fuck is? The lad who sells pizza on matchdays? Fuck off. No football fans should be finding excuses for footballers at this level. I don’t understand why they do that. It’s like they’re sticking up for us for some reason. Fuck off you creep, y’know? Eurgh. I hate those people who go on social media and say shit like ‘players have got a right to earn all that money’. Fuck off mate. You know fuck all so shut your fucking yap. I’ve got a ‘right’ have I? Fuck off. I’ve no right to earn more than someone who is caring for the dying. What monster would say that? These people who say things like that have lost perspective.”


J: “That’s an interesting idea. Let’s expand a bit on what you mean by losing perspective.”
P: “They don’t really grasp what big money really means in real life. You know that I’ve not taken a wage for nearly three years now. I used to say I’ve donated it to charity, but someone said I’d just ‘invested it in other people’. I like that better. So that’s about £8million, and I’ll be honest, I’ve still got millions in the bank from my career. I’ve taken no money for three years and I’ve wanted for nothing. Every single player could do the same. Imagine how much good we could do with all that money.”


J: “That’s amazing when you really think about it. Giving money away like that.”
P: “It’s not a big thing. It really isn’t, Johnny. When you’re rich, it’s just numbers. I want your readers to think about this in their own lives. Right? Get a perspective on what sort of income top-flight players earn and what it really, really means. Because it’s just cold numbers otherwise, isn’t it? I want them to imagine that they’ve bought a nice big house that cost £1million and it’s paid for in full. You and your wife have got a BMW series 5 and a Land Rover Sport. Over £100,000 worth of cars. Imagine that. I bought all of that a few years ago when I was on bigger money than I am now with just 20 weeks’ wages and bonuses. OK, I’m not bragging or showing off, you know that, I’m just saying how it is. I get free physio and medical care. Free gym. Even free trackies and trainers.


“So imagine you’re me. What are you going to do with £50,000 every single week of the year once you’ve got all that? Tell me? What? OK, you need clothes, a suit maybe, nice shoes. What’s the cost per year for those? Even if it was £30,000 – and I don’t see how it could be – you’ve still got £170,000 left from your first month’s wages.
“Bills for food and lecky and gas are piddling. What the hell can anyone spend £200,000 a month on? And I’m well below average in my pay. Imagine getting half a million or a million in your account per month? What people don’t seem to understand is that when you’ve loads of money, almost nothing seems expensive. Do you get me, Johnny? Nothing. It’s just a number. Any of your readers who think they could spend £200,000 per month every month for the next three years is kidding themselves. You can’t. Normal people can’t anyway. If you wanted to buy paintings by Warhol or someone you could shell it out, but the lads don’t do that. My wife says footballers are all normal lads with abnormal money. She’s right.

“So there you are with a big nice house, cars, no debts and the money is piling up. Why not give it away? It’s a no-brainer. Why not help people who have nothing or not enough? No-one deserves all this money, and we’re now not even playing football for it. We’re doing fuck all. I just don’t understand why you’d not help less fortunate people. Ask your readers how would they live with themselves having millions in the bank and knowing that millions of people can barely pay their rent or have to use a food bank to feed their kids. You’ve got so much and so many have got so little.”


J: “Well you know what people say, don’t you? We’ve talked about this before. They’d say you’re an elite player who’s paid as such because there are not many really good players. They’ll say you’ve had to be dedicated to the game for most of your life and that it’s a short career, so you have a right to the big money while you can earn it.”
P: “People who say that can fuck right off. Short career? I’ll have done 20 years by the time I pack up. Who has a job for 20 years any more? No-one. Yes, I’ve worked hard, but so has my cousin who works in the NHS. She’s pounding the wards 12 hours a day dealing with people who are dying – actually dying. Try telling her that she’s not dedicated her life to it or hasn’t got a special talent. She’ll fucking chin you. Meanwhile we’re doing sprints or playing crossbar challenge, with some lads earning more in a day than she’ll earn in a year. You get me? It’s wrong and no-one can tell me it’s not wrong. If you’re defending that situation you’re a muppet. This virus thing has just made it all more obvious for people.”


J: “But people can’t all earn the same money. That’s not how society works.”

P: “It’s not a perfect world, I know that. Never will be. But it doesn’t have to be this bad. The virus has shown all of us how important people who do all the dirty jobs for little money are to everyone. They keep it all running. The gap between rich and poor doesn’t have to be so huge. Those with loads should have a lot less and those who have very little should have a lot more. I don’t know how you go about making that happen, but that’s what we should be aiming at. Meanwhile, people like me have to do their bit and give back what we have undeservedly earned to people who need help. It’s not that mad, is it?”


J: “I don’t think so, no. Wouldn’t it help if I could use your name, though? Then you could set an example.”
P: “I’ve thought a lot about that but I’m shit with words. I’m not a talker really. I don’t want to have to go on TV and talk about it. And you know what’d happen. First people would say I was just bigging myself up. Then the papers would be up my arse trying to prove I was a hypocrite or worse. The tabloids would start making shit up about how I wasn’t as good as my word. Then some lads would think I was weird, they’d not understand what I’m on about, so it’d be bad for the dressing room. On top of that I’d get loads of weirdos wanting money off us for mad ideas. I mean, I fear for the kids as well. Some nutter might kidnap them knowing that I’m loaded and giving away money. You don’t know what could happen. It scares me sometimes. But that’s why when I heard about your book last year I wanted the truth of the situation to be out there, without the hassle that would come with going public.”


J: “I’d not thought about it being dangerous for you and your family.”

P: “Why would you? Wealth fucks so many things up. It changes how people treat you. You’re no longer a regular bloke. Being a footballer in the Premier League isn’t a job like any other. If we were paid normal money, life would be much more simple. Better, in fact. Much better.”


J: “OK, so let’s wrap this up with how you think we can go forward with the virus situation suspending…(interrupts)
P: “It’s not complicated, Johnny. Clubs pay non-playing staff wages in full for the duration. The Premier League or whoever has the power, takes the players and directors’ wage bill for three months and donates it to essential workers and the NHS. Six months if it goes on longer. That’s it. Not hard. No fuss and bother. Just do it. The lads will probably be glad to have the pressure taken off them. Then we’ll go round Hancock’s house and get his money off him. The twat.”

[niko_cee]

:D

That's quite good.

The fact that it'll be some (relatively speaking) complete no mark like Jon Walters probably only makes it all the more telling.

[Giggles]

What’s it out of?

[Don]

I've got a real hard-on for him, whoever it may be.

[Kikó]

It's f365. I'm guessing Mark Noble.
https://www.football365.com/news/feature-premier-league-player-wage-cut-matt-hancock

[Andy]

My first thought was Troy Deeney.

[Manc]

The wage, location, political views and language suggest Noble.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Must be one of those. Reads proper London and 'my first team' suggests standing. Probably Noble.

[phonics]

I've blocked Nicholson as I find him incredibly tedious but you could probably just farm his social media followers.

[Waffdon]

No way Mark Noble isn’t a Tory.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Mark Noble born Canning Town 1987 and grew up in Beckton... 100% Labour guaranteed.

The whole Lampard/Redknapp clan will be Tories. Joe Cole, more likely Labour.

[Lewis]

Steven Gerrard is your classic shy Tory. Definitely.

[Smjffy]

Liverpool furloughing staff is tough to stomach. We're supposed to be different, what do we sing you'll never walk alone for if we abandon those who make the walk? :moop:

[Jimmy Floyd]

You might have been different in Shankly's day, but today you're owned by Americans who are in it for the moolah.

Surprised they don't recognise what a PR disaster it is though (not surprised Tottenham didn't see that, I doubt Daniel Levy has ever put his own socks on).

[Lewis]

In fact, I bet the entire 'Golden Generation' vote Conservative.

[phonics]

In fact, I bet the entire 'Golden Generation' vote Conservative.

1160532819120140288

[Jimmy Floyd]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52168692

Bahahaha at these wankers torching all credibility they have.

[Don]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52168692

lol at these fucking wankers. Burn the whole thing down and start again.

I don't know if you're as mentally struggling as I am or you're just playing sick mind games on us. Trust no one.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I haven't met any family members or friends since Wed 11 March so it's probably both.

[Kikó]

Liverpool furloughing staff is tough to stomach. We're supposed to be different, what do we sing you'll never walk alone for if we abandon those who make the walk? :moop:

😂

[John Arne]

That interview is just as likely to be Johnny Nic talking to himself in the mirror as it is being Noble. Nicholson has a history of talking absolute shite. Last year he suggested that not signing players from Scotland was "anti-Scotish bigotry". The guy is a mong.

[Kikó]

Our Wayne speaks:

:
The first thing to say is that if Derby County needed me to take a pay cut to save the club I would understand and look to support them in whatever way I could. And if the government approached me to help support nurses financially or buy ventilators I’d be proud to do so — as long as I knew where the money was going.

But I’m not every player. I’m 34, I’ve had a long career and I’ve earned well. I’m in a place where I could give something up. Not every footballer is in the same position. Yet suddenly the whole profession has been put on the spot with a demand for 30 per cent pay cuts across the board. Why are footballers suddenly the scapegoats?

How the past few days have played out is a disgrace. First the health secretary, Matt Hancock, in his daily update on coronavirus, said that Premier League players should take a pay cut. He was supposed to be giving the nation the latest on the biggest crisis we’ve faced in our lifetimes. Why was the pay of footballers even in his head? Was he desperate to divert attention from his government’s handling of this pandemic?

The Premier League then announced it was looking for its players to give up or defer wages by 30 per cent. This despite owners and the Premier League board knowing players were already deep in discussion about what their contribution should be. It seemed strange to me because every other decision in this process has been kept behind closed doors, but this had to be announced publicly. Why? It feels as if it’s to shame the players — to force them into a corner where they have to pick up the bill for lost revenue.

The EFL will probably wait to see what is agreed at Premier League level and so, as Derby captain, I might face similar discussions to those Premier League captains, who were asked to agree reductions on behalf of their whole squad. But as a captain, how would I know the financial background of my team-mates?

The Championship is different from the Premier League. We have one player who lives with his mum on a council estate — not that that matters — who I imagine has responsibility for paying the bills for his whole family. He’s a footballer but he’s facing the same circumstances as lots of people in our country today.

He’s a youngster and hasn’t had time to build up any security to fall back on. A cut might be fine for me but what about him? Thirty per cent of £2,000-a-week would lose him £600 — and that could be what his family needs to live on. Remember, players’ careers are short so they have to make investments or have savings, with most facing retirement at 35 but — unlike a previous generation — unable to draw a pension until much later.

Of course, Premier League pay in most cases is higher but there will be younger players who just aren’t on the kind of money where they can be forced to lose 30 per cent. And, like everyone else in the world, footballers spend according to their means. Some players will buy houses they can’t really afford, some buy cars they don’t need. Whether that’s right or wrong, it’s the reality. When I was a kid at Everton I bought a £20,000 Audi before I had the money because that’s the kind of daft thing you do at that age. What would have happened to me? Then you have all the players with family members being laid off and who will be under even more pressure to support them.

I get that players are well paid and could give up money. But this should be getting done on a case-by-case basis. Clubs should be sitting down with each player and explaining what savings it needs to survive. Players would accept that. One player might say, “I can afford a 30 per cent cut”; another might say, “I can only afford 5 per cent.” Personally, I’d have no problem with some of us paying more. I don’t think that would cause any dressing room problems.

At Derby we’re keeping in touch about what we can contribute to our local community and especially those affected by, or at the front line of, coronavirus. Some players are saying they can afford to do something, some are saying they can’t afford to do anything. We all respect that.

For the Premier League to just announce the proposal, as it has done, increases the pressure on players and in my opinion it is now a no-win situation: if players come out and say they can’t agree or are not willing to cut by 30 per cent, even if the real reasons are that it will financially ruin some, it will be presented as “Rich Players Refuse Pay Cut”.

Whatever way you look at it, we’re easy targets. What gets lost is that half our wages get taken by the taxman. Money that goes to the government, money that is helping the NHS.

And what about the big stars from other sports, who are able to avoid tax by living in places like Monaco — why are they not getting called out? Why aren’t all the wealthy being forced to contribute extra? Wouldn’t that raise more money?

It shouldn’t be forgotten footballers already give a lot of money to charity. We help our communities. I don’t like talking about what I’ve done but throughout my career I’ve always contributed to charities that mean something to me. This disaster is hitting the whole world. We’re all human beings. Becoming targets like this I feel is wrong. I’m worried for some of the players, especially the young ones.

The big clubs don’t need players to take pay cuts. Are you telling me Manchester United or Man City need 30 per cent of their players’ wages to survive? If that’s the case then football is in a far worse position than any of us imagined.

If it’s not about club survival, but about diverting money to important causes I know from my own experience in lots of dressing rooms that the players are always the first to say we need to do something about this. We have to remember footballers here come from all over the world and some players will have different ideas what they would do with any money they have given up. You have African players who, I have no doubt, would rightly want to support their homelands and I’m sure that’s true of a lot of foreign players. Shouldn’t that be respected?

As I understand it, the Premier League is putting £20 million towards the NHS and that should be applauded but in reality that’s a drop in the ocean compared to the £500 million the PFA say the clubs would save by wage reductions.

I know that in writing this people will point the finger at me and say, “Oh you’ve earned all this money in your career.” I know there’ll be implications for me. But I’m not talking about me personally. I’m talking about footballers, people I have shared dressing rooms with. The pressure put on them is not acceptable and I need to speak up for them. At the moment it’s almost a free-for-all: it’s like the government, Premier League and sections of the media have set the players up to fall.

[Spikey M]

Protect the first £x of earnings. This stuff isn't complex.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The footballers have a cheek SEETHING at Matt Hancock. He was asked a question by a reporter, he's just out of isolation and probably doing 20 hour days trying to arm the NHS for this, he just said whatever came into his head. Give the man a break. It's exactly the sort of shit they normally cry about regarding media interaction.

Footballers do not matter but they seem to think they do.

[Luke Emia]

After calling Spurs cunts the other day seems only fit that our owners should be called out as cunts as well. Surprises me because they have been pretty good with PR recently so to see them get burnt will probably make them realise in the future. I would think they thought topping up the wages(which Spurs aren’t doing) might just get them some positive PR.

There are a lot of sides to it with the footballer wages. But surely you just say a cut off at all levels. If you earn over 5k a week you take a 30% cut and that money can then be used to support clubs at the bottom end of the pyramid. Rather than this shit posturing from the PFA.

[Waffdon]

The footballers have a cheek SEETHING at Matt Hancock. He was asked a question by a reporter, he's just out of isolation and probably doing 20 hour days trying to arm the NHS for this, he just said whatever came into his head. Give the man a break. It's exactly the sort of shit they normally cry about regarding media interaction.

Footballers do not matter but they seem to think they do.

He’s fucking useless and couldn’t even follow his countries guidelines of self isolating for the minimum 7 days. Your hatred of footballers is something special.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I don't hate footballers, it's just laughable the lengths to which people with no other interests in their life will go to defend them against the charge of being out of touch and in a moneyed bubble (which with a few exceptions, they are).

It's not the players' fault though as such, it's the fact that the top level of the English game is morally rotten to the core and they're just part of it. Still, spare me Wayne Rooney doing woe is me victim articles.

[Mellberg]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/05/thousands-of-casual-workers-at-major-football-stadiums-left-without-pay

[Foe]

I don't hate footballers, it's just laughable the lengths to which people with no other interests in their life will go to defend them against the charge of being out of touch and in a moneyed bubble (which with a few exceptions, they are).

It's not the players' fault though as such, it's the fact that the top level of the English game is morally rotten to the core and they're just part of it. Still, spare me Wayne Rooney doing woe is me victim articles.

It’s not just footballers though is it? They’re just an east target.

Any professional sportsperson or business executive / celebrity could equally be called out.

Surely easier to just point to owners and or the British rich list.

Hancock is entitled to his opinion, by raising a government press conference whicb puts expectation on that specific group is downright not acceptable.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Zero hour employees are a tough one with this. They are basically reliant on the employer being arsed to furlough them. If the employer isn't arsed then they are fucked.

Zero hour contracts won't survive this, as a concept.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It’s not just footballers though is it? They’re just an east target.

Any professional sportsperson or business executive / celebrity could equally be called out.

Surely easier to just point to owners and or the British rich list.

Hancock is entitled to his opinion, by raising a government press conference whicb puts expectation on that specific group is downright not acceptable.

I think the reason for their being in the spotlight is that the sport of football is having a very public spat about money and what happens to the season, etc, seemingly oblivious to everyone's concerns in the real world. Every other major sport that I'm aware of is just getting on with it and seeing what happens.

It is owners too, it's the whole rotten show. Daniel Levy, with a personal £1 billion fortune, furloughing his employees on £20k for 80% of their wages, would get drummed out of the sport if there was any justice.

[Mellberg]

It's a tough one contractually. Morally it's night and day. I'm hoping this spreads beyond football and people become angry enough about the levels of exploitation to actually do something about it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's a tough one contractually. Morally it's night and day. I'm hoping this spreads beyond football and people become angry enough about the levels of exploitation to actually do something about it.

Yep, in a year's time you'll be seeing all sorts of articles with fund managers / merchant bankers screaming with fury about how much tax they pay and how they're worth every penny, in the same way footballers are now.

The human haircut has a great opportunity to recast Labour as a force for moral good, as despite being a perennial Tory voter I'm really not sure they have it in them to get their heads around the light this has shone on certain aspects of society.

[Yevrah]

'Football' has behaved appallingly in this. Be it the desperate grasping to keep the shit show on the road for the monies (which Rooney himself criticised), furloughing workers and not paying any of the balance (when the money is clearly there to do so), the players not actually offering anything or even talking about it until they were forced, the owners just doing nothing, or the players who decided the lockdown didn't apply to them. It's all been awful.

What has surprised me is the innocent view people still hold about how this works. It's a sport that's transitioned over the last 25 years to be for money, to make more money, with the ultimate aim of making all of the money.

[Yevrah]

And Wayne Rooney citing the kid living with his family shows how laughably out of touch he is. Many families are having to survive on a hell of a lot less than £1,400 a week, a lot with no idea when there'll be able to pay their mortgage again too.

[Foe]

I mean in the same way yev why don’t you donate 30% of your pay? I’m sure there’s families living on a lot less.

It’s a private business which means supply and demand dictates its value. It’s value is enormous because of the huge demand. Football wages will remain enormous until the money stops flowing in from the general public.

Everyone’s cost base is different and yes everyone can in theory live on 20k a year, but that’s not feasible with zero notice is it?

How do you know the footballers were planning doing nothing?

[Foe]

'Football' has behaved appallingly in this. Be it the desperate grasping to keep the shit show on the road for the monies (which Rooney himself criticised), furloughing workers and not paying any of the balance (when the money is clearly there to do so), the players not actually offering anything or even talking about it until they were forced, the owners just doing nothing, or the players who decided the lockdown didn't apply to them. It's all been awful.

What has surprised me is the innocent view people still hold about how this works. It's a sport that's transitioned over the last 25 years to be for money, to make more money, with the ultimate aim of making all of the money.

And you’re generalising all of football because of jack grielish or who else?

[Giggles]

And you’re generalising all of football because of jack grielish or who else?

Kyle Walker with the brassers too. Though it’s a tiny percentage and madness to be bringing it up when most of the general public think the lockdown doesn’t apply to them either.

[Lewis]

Isn't it all dependent on whether the season finishes? If they end up having to pack the end of the season into June and July then why should they have their wages cut? They will have played all of the games. But if the season is voided, and the broadcasters want thirty per cent of their fees back, then it stands to reason that the clubs should take that money from the people they pay to do a job that is no longer being done (and which happens to be their biggest expense). People seem to be conflating that with a general notion that well-paid people ought to be giving up money for some reason, which is stupid.

[Foe]

Even then I’m not sure how that works. An injured player would still earn full pay id imagine and play zero games.

Unless the players contracts state how many games the season has, it’s almost irrelevant to them.

The club can play them in 0 games, or 50 games.

[Yevrah]

I mean in the same way yev why don’t you donate 30% of your pay? I’m sure there’s families living on a lot less.


I'm probably going to. Everyone in my company is still being paid full pay, I believe they will also be in April, but after that it's less likely, when I'll have to contribute so the lower paid people here can get by. I'm ok with that.

[Yevrah]

And you’re generalising all of football because of jack grielish or who else?

Because of all of the things I've said.

There are canteen staff being furlouged on 80% of their pay while Daniel Levy dives in and out of his money pit and Harry Kane hasn't had to cut down on the number of cars he buys each month. Do you not see a problem with that?

EDIT: And that also applies to Lewis' point about rich people giving up money for the sake of it. It's not for the sake of it, in this case, it's for Doreen.

[Mellberg]

As a minimum they (or the clubs) should be covering lost wages for other members of staff, ZHC or not. Just out of basic decency. That's not directed exclusively at football either. I wouldn't let the Abu Dhabi fuckers charging for use of the ExCel centre do business in this country again.

[Lewis]

Well, they could presumably refuse to go along with it. But if clubs start suffering from having to bear the costs it could potentially de-rail the entire gravy train, so they would be well advised to take the short-term hit.

The best part of that interview is him speaking directly to Waff.

[Yevrah]

As a minimum they (or the clubs) should be covering lost wages for other members of staff, ZHC or not. Just out of basic decency. That's not directed exclusively at football either. I wouldn't let the Abu Dhabi fuckers charging for use of the ExCel centre do business in this country again.

Indeed. It's not quite the "given up the Excel centre to the NHS" is it?

[Foe]

Because of all of the things I've said.

There are canteen staff being furlouged on 80% of their pay while Daniel Levy dives in and out of his money pit and Harry Kane hasn't had to cut down on the number of cars he buys each month. Do you not see a problem with that?

I do. But I don’t see it as a problem by the players. It’s a decision made by the owners which is morally wrong.

If the business is sustainable and profitable (ie operating/operated at a profit) the clubs shouldn’t need to furlough the non playing staff. If there’s financial concerns then they should be seeking solution - the government gave them an easy out for low paid staff. The players could intervene but absolutely not their responsibility how the club is run and funded. Your issue should be with how the owners/board are handling the financial obligations of the club, not the players who are indeed themselves employees.

[Smjffy]

I'm of opinion that players shouldn't have to take a wage cut because why? The majority pay more tax over the course of their career than many of us would in our entire lives and essentially those taxes should then be used by whichever government is in power to invest and support those who reside in the country. None of the countries problems are the footballers. It was only a couple of years ago I remember reading about the richest 1% own half of the world's wealth so you start there but the real messed up thing about all of this I imagine is the rich will come out of it better than the poor whilst everything returns to normal and people forget that this was all even a thing.

In an ideal world those who have been shown not to help those in need should be blacklisted when it is all sorted.

[Lewis]

Couldn't the clubs just furlough the players and then pay the government the piddling money back (with interest if need be)? Presumably doing so wouldn't void their contracts, otherwise half of the workforce is technically unemployed.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If you think top footballers being on 8/10 times the money they were 20 years ago is down to 'demand from the general public' you're deluding yourself. It's awash with laundered blood money in the same way that e.g. the London housing market is, which in turn makes life impossible further down the pecking order as everything is distorted.

This is a very good article about what's going to happen to it: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/sports/soccer/premier-league-soccer-wages.html

[Foe]

It’s still supply and demand.

The clubs are adjusting their cost base based on the revenues they are obtaining and forecast. Look what happened in Scotland when setanta went bust. It fucked up a fair few clubs.

The revenue has increased significantly so the cost base has also. And the way that’s most noticeable, player salaries. Same as any business, lack of cash flow can kill even the most promising of companies if they’ve extended themselves for expansion and not created a sufficient safety fund.

Football has those funds for the most part in wealthy owners. Whether they’d be willing to bail them out is debatable. They’re for the most part business people now. Elite national football isn’t a community run sport. It’s P&L.

[Mellberg]

I'd suggest you're making an argument for player cuts there, not against. That's simply from a business perspective and putting the politics to one side.

On the politics, I'm not suggesting Bolton should be dishing out millions to the community, but clubs like Liverpool and Tottenham furloughing staff who earn a relative pittance and giving the millionaire footballers a free ride is morally repugnant. Even a Tory government are implementing socialist policies at a time of crisis. Meanwhile, football is behaving as it always as, "supply and demand and P&L", and it's being exposed as a very ugly business which may suffer once this is all over.

[Foe]

I'd suggest you're making an argument for player cuts there, not against. That's simply from a business perspective and putting the politics to one side.

On the politics, I'm not suggesting Bolton should be dishing out millions to the community, but clubs like Liverpool and Tottenham furloughing staff who earn a relative pittance and giving the millionaire footballers a free ride is morally repugnant. Even a Tory government are implementing socialist policies at a time of crisis. Meanwhile, football is behaving as it always as, "supply and demand and P&L", and it's being exposed as a very ugly business which may suffer once this is all over.

If the finances don’t stack up then player cuts are the way to go, absolutely. However not as easy as that as we all discovered with clubs like Sunderland, Bolton and Leeds all folding in on themselves when the gravy train ends. It’s not a particularly new phenomena. The government have told business they can furlough staff up to £x. If that didn’t apply to football clubs then we wouldn’t be even having this conversation.

Football is ugly. It’s a business. It’ll be interesting in the NFL is all this goes south and stays that way. A lot of player contracts have little to no guarantee, so if they need to cull costs, they can.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's not a business. A business would compete to sell its product against competitors on the price/quality trade-off. Football clubs compete to earn league points and if they fail at that arbitrary task, the money dries up. It's not in any sense like a normal business.

[Shindig]

Erm .... get your bids in for Matty Longstaff. If we were going to hold on to him, we'd have put pen to paper.

[John Arne]

On the politics, I'm not suggesting Bolton should be dishing out millions to the community, but clubs like Liverpool and Tottenham furloughing staff who earn a relative pittance and giving the millionaire footballers a free ride is morally repugnant.

I simply don't get this. Liverpool furloughing non-playing staff, whilst paying the 20% shortfall means that the only "victim" is the taxpayer. Which ok, it's not great - but we all know business is business. However, if they were to furlough the players - it would be DETRIMENTAL to the taxpayers. The amount of tax Firmino pays per month is 100 times more than the minimum furloughed salary - how is that morally repugnant? Genuine question, I'm not being arsey.

If the club wasn't topping up salaries of non playing staff, or even not safeguarding jobs, I would agree.

The only issue is why furlough the staff in the first place - but then you could ask this question of every profit making company in the country.
Edit: if your issue is with the club's asking the govt for help, then yeah, I get that.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I don't think anyone's suggesting they should be furloughing players. In fact, I'm not especially bothered whether or not players take a pay cut. What is certain is that top football clubs should be covering their own staff's wages and not crying to the government to abuse a scheme meant for businesses who would not otherwise be able to keep staff on.

[phonics]

You know the footballers aren't the ones making those decisions right? It's the owners who are infinitely more wealthy than the players who are.

He won't speak on Branson but will talk about footballers. It's because they're upwardly mobile and need to be slapped down and know their place.

[John Arne]

I don't think anyone's suggesting they should be furloughing players. In fact, I'm not especially bothered whether or not players take a pay cut. What is certain is that top football clubs should be covering their own staff's wages and not crying to the government to abuse a scheme meant for businesses who would not otherwise be able to keep staff on.

Aye, that's fair enough.

[Giggles]

You know..................right? needs to be set alight, beaten, and banned from all vocabulary. Ital used to be a smarmy fucker for it years ago but I see it everywhere now.

[niko_cee]

Liverpool u-turn on the furlough idiocy. I guess whoever pulled the trigger on the original policy is going to be turbo-furlouged.

[Luca]

You know..................right? needs to be set alight, beaten, and banned from all vocabulary. Ital used to be a smarmy fucker for it years ago but I see it everywhere now.

Take your L, Giggles mate.

[Luca]

Liverpool u-turn on the furlough idiocy. I guess whoever pulled the trigger on the original policy is going to be turbo-furlouged.

Spurs have probably doubled down.

[mugbull]

The Spurs wage cut / furlough decision is totally indefensible, but it’s great to see the free market fundamentalists out in force again

[Smjffy]

Liverpool u-turn on the furlough idiocy. I guess whoever pulled the trigger on the original policy is going to be turbo-furlouged.

I'm happy the decision has been reversed but it still shouldn't have happened. It is however pleasing that once again the club listens to its supporters and reverses a poor decision it made.

[Don]

Fuck the club and fuck every cunt who buys that shit.

[Ian]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52197014

Corruption? At FIFA? Come on now, we're all keen for non-pandemic news but give us something plausible at least.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Ricardo Teixeira and Jack Warner taking bungs should knock the virus off the front pages, shocking stuff.

[Don]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52208435

https://images.beautifulhalo.com/images/392x588/201903/B/stylish-cool-street-letter-waking-up-or-going-to-sleep-hip-hop-style-oversized-t-shirt_1554051055290.jpg

"the shoulder itself doesn't really have an opportunity to make the body bigger"

Errrm, you can add about 6 inches (Oi Oi) by putting your arm out.

In conclusion, the game remains gone.

[John]

If the rule meant players running out in shirts fourteen sizes too big for them I'd welcome it. Imagine the shirt pulling at corners, it would be like a load of bungee runs.

[Offshore Toon]

Difficult to ignore the takeover news. I can feel that hope brewing. Fuck sake.

[Gray Fox]

Kicking off a little in Scotland. The Scottish League board put forward a proposal that would cancel the remainder of the football league and leave the SPL free to decide their league table at a points per game basis later on, should this drag on too long for them.

The teams had to vote on it and despite opposition the SPL, League 1 and 2 all voted in favour. However the Scottish Championship rests on the vote of Dundee. There seems to be some confusion over whether they haven't voted at all, or if they voted against like they said they would.
The sticking point is if the vote passes, Celtic will be awarded the title and Hearts relegated, but it would mean they would be voting to promote Dundee United to the SPL.

[Jimmy Floyd]

How petty would you have to be to collapse an entire voting process in these circumstances because (I'm guessing) it would deny you a couple of home derbies the year after?

[John Arne]

My thoughts exactly. Surely as a fan and club you want/host to watch some decent derbies every season. Seems very petty.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They're in the same league currently so I'm guessing they want to keep them there as the derbies are lucrative and they're desperate for money.

[Spikey M]

This is exactly the sort if pettiness I can get behind. :cool:

[Waffdon]

They banked on Inverness saying no so their vote didn’t matter and have shit the bed when they’ve realised they have to go through with it now to appease their fans.

We’ll go up regardless so it’s all a bit funny. Only way we don’t is if null and void but half the clubs would die without the prize money, including Rangers.

[Waffdon]

They want to award us with the league but to not get promotion. This would all have been better if we were only two points ahead as the seethe would be through the roof but they’re closer to relegation than us unfortunately.

Wouldn’t be against reconstruction as means ourselves and Inverness go up. Both Edinburgh clubs and both highland clubs in the same league - away days :drool:

[Foe]

Was there not something on bbc about Dundee having full insurance for this and being one of very few to have so?

Maybe it’s a really calculated dickhead move that if they defer other clubs end up in financial mess with deductions and what not and they can stroll on forward over the next few years.

Call me a skeptic.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If they want to waste the next twenty years getting hollow victories over Chipsclyde Thistle in front of meagre crowds that would be a good way to go about it.

[Waffdon]

Dundee have been in administration twice since 2003. Rangers died. Hearts got saved by their fans. All three clubs fucked people and local businesses over by not paying back money they owed.

Yet trying to play the moral high ground about sporting integrity. Scottish football is truly beautiful. Nothing quite like it.

[Gray Fox]

Rangers have now kicked it up a notch by demanding the SPFL Chief and their legal adviser be suspended and an independent inquest into the process.

Dundee still haven't voted yet either.

[Adamski]

They banked on Inverness saying no so their vote didn’t matter and have shit the bed when they’ve realised they have to go through with it now to appease their fans.

We’ll go up regardless so it’s all a bit funny. Only way we don’t is if null and void but half the clubs would die without the prize money, including Rangers.

You think Rangers would die without a million quid? :D

I love how utterly consumed by Rangers you are - always terrific reading.

[Waffdon]

You’re a fascinating breed, it must be said.

[Offshore Toon]

Yeah, Waff's post is nowhere near "utterly consumed" there. You've either chosen a really poor post to pipe up or you're the one who is consumed.

[Waffdon]

Rangers want the prize money paid out but the season to be null and void. Not desperate for the cash though.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Isn't this the 10 in a row? If I were Rangers I'd want to let them have it on the dampest of squibs.

[Waffdon]

9 in a row

[Adamski]

Rangers want the prize money paid out but the season to be null and void. Not desperate for the cash though.

Preference is to play the season to a close I think. No mention of null & void.

[Adamski]

Yeah, Waff's post is nowhere near "utterly consumed" there. You've either chosen a really poor post to pipe up or you're the one who is consumed.

Rangers wouldn’t die without prize money, which is what he’s saying.

[Waffdon]

They’re already deed m8

[Baz]

Someone (https://twitter.com/RachaelKWelsh/status/1249427794976739331?s=20) tweeted along to some of Liverpool's recent memorable European games that were on BT Sport yesterday.

[Spikey M]

That's quite sad.

[Giggles]

It includes a word I’ve muted so I can’t see, but I’ll guess at you or Sue Perkins.

[Waffdon]

Baz ‘tweetathon’ the other month had me using the mute button for the first time ever.

[Baz]

Baz ‘tweetathon’ the other month had me using the mute button for the first time ever.

I stand by the fact if some unfunny comedian like Lee Mack or her who does Miranda had tweeted all my tweets, it would have been newsworthy and lauded as hilarious social commentary, making everyone smile at Christmas.

[John]

That's because you don't realise how shit you are.

[Waffdon]

Tay Bridge will be full of Dundee fans tonight. What a club.

[Lofty]

I stand by the fact if some unfunny comedian like Lee Mack or her who does Miranda had tweeted all my tweets, it would have been newsworthy and lauded as hilarious social commentary, making everyone smile at Christmas.

I'll give you Miranda Hart aka her who does Miranda, but Lee Mack is funny. On Would I Lie to You as a foil to David Mitchell anyway. Like Sean Lock is funny on 8 Out of 10 Cats but his stand up is dogshit.

[Don]

Unless there's some element of scripting I'm not aware of, Lee Mack seems like a very sharp wit quite often on WILTY.

[Ian]

Any of the funny bits are jokes he's stolen off Baz.

[Bob Sacamano]

I don't trust these panel shows, they all seem heavily scripted

[Shindig]

Mock the Week's the worst of that.

[phonics]

It’s not scripted but it’s a 2 hour show edited down to 24 minutes.

[Don]

You talking about WILTY? MTW is clearly scripted but at least it used to be decent back in the Frankie Boyle early era (or was that just because FB was new to the scene and it was actually always shit?) but WILTY seems less open to possibility of being scripted.

[Mellberg]

It was good with Frankie Boyle and the bloke sat next to him was decent as well. The other team with Russell Howard and the tiny bald gremlin was always fucking terrible though.

Lee Mack and Sean Lock are both geezers.

[Giggles]

You talking about WILTY? MTW is clearly scripted but at least it used to be decent back in the Frankie Boyle early era (or was that just because FB was new to the scene and it was actually always shit?) but WILTY seems less open to possibility of being scripted.

You heard the man.

[phonics]

Iwobi on the 5 best players he has played with in his career Via his insta live: "Santi Cazorla, Glen Kamara, Chuba Akpom, Mesut Ozil and Francis Coquelin in that order."

:cab:

[Jimmy Floyd]

There is so much to unpack there.

[phonics]

There is so much to unpack there.

Agreed, I understand players mentioning their mates but the "in that order" makes it wild.

[Raoul Duke]

Which way does the order go? I'm assuming Santi is best, the chubby little magician

[Jimmy Floyd]

The best of all the shade thrown on Ozil there is putting him just one place above the most functional midfield fill-in you've ever seen.

[phonics]

We've got enough Rangers fans to find out. Lads, you're choosing between Mezut Ozil and Glenn Kamara, who you picking?

Glenn Kamara, a player so irrelevant I was assuming he meant Chris Kiwomya who retired in 2002.

[Manc]

It's quite possible that our Glen was tearing up the youth scene.

[John Arne]

Either that or Iwobi is simply on the wind up.

[Shindig]

So ... our takeover might not be smoke and mirrors this time.

[Gray Fox]

Haven't these takeovers got to this point a few times before, only for Ashley to hike the price up last minute?

[Smjffy]

So ... our takeover might not be smoke and mirrors this time.

You know it'll take some going to out shit Mike Ashley but then you've got to bare in mind he's the one selling so I'm pretty sure he's not looking for a reliable custodian.

[Shindig]

Not quite this stage. I remember the last one went cold when a front company was setup that it was assumed was where the takeover funds would've been handled. It's all weird and it's always either Staveley or Kenyon's name in the mix.

[mugbull]

Can’t imagine what the Saudi sovereign wealth fund sees in this

[phonics]

Can’t imagine what the Saudi sovereign wealth fund sees in this

Are you kidding me? It's a way better idea than Man City ever was.

[mugbull]

Are you kidding me? It's a way better idea than Man City ever was.

Yeah but Mansour bought it using his own PE company, not through a sovereign wealth fund

[Don]

Bit suspicious that anyone would commit vast sums to a business deal in such an at-risk industry, too. Doubt there's any hidden agendas or motivations to push the deal through at this of all times though. Bit cynical to think otherwise, really.

[Offshore Toon]

I feel like we've been here before so there's nothing to celebrate until we see black and white striped burkhas in the club shop.

[Giggles]

Love to see Newcastle go massive.

[Lewis]

This Mike 'Sandman's Dad' Ashley fellow, who stands to double his money in just over a decade, sounds like the sort of savvy businessperson you would want in charge of your club.

[Lofty]

if they do at least Arsenal wont need to worry about getting beat away at Narnia anymore.

[Gray Fox]

Imagine, Bruce Ball on a £500m budget.

[phonics]

Yeah but Mansour bought it using his own PE company, not through a sovereign wealth fund

Okay and?

[ScousePig]

Not quite this stage. I remember the last one went cold when a front company was setup that it was assumed was where the takeover funds would've been handled. It's all weird and it's always either Staveley or Kenyon's name in the mix.

Did you see anything of ours last year? It seemed these billionaire Dell boys had done everything, it was all but announced. We were repeatedly told it was just a case of dotting the 'i's, and they even registered a new company in our name or however it works. Then it went quiet for several weeks, our manager was sacked and the whole thing seemed to be up in the air.

Eventually they gave us a £10m loan. Apparently there's something in the contract which states if our current owner can't pay the loan back, they take over ownership of the club. But it went from 99% done deal (and we've had a number of these before that got to nowhere near this stage) to nobody has a clue what's going on. The supposed 'ITKs' on the Sunderland board became a bit of a laughing stock.

[Lewis]

Okay and?

Hasn't he been to about two games ever? They're quite clearly owned on behalf of, and underwritten by, the government itself.

[Shindig]

This Mike 'Sandman's Dad' Ashley fellow, who stands to double his money in just over a decade, sounds like the sort of savvy businessperson you would want in charge of your club.

He'll run you at a profit but expect all the staff to be on zero hours.

[Offshore Toon]

His death is when the real party will take place.

[Smjffy]

1250180446132019201

[Shindig]

Shame those videos aren't recent. Actually, the second knacker is. The squad's on par with what Rafa left us with and Bruce has done alright.

[Jimmy Floyd]

His death is when the real party will take place.

Maybe you could plant a news story that he's gay so that the Saudis will behead him.

[Shindig]

BBC and Sky are reporting the Premier League's fit and proper bollocks is underway.

[Ian]

"Are they good for the money?"
"Yeah, probably."
"Close enough."

[phonics]

"Step 1. Have they committed any murders?"
"Well they haven't been found guilty of any murders."
"And that concludes the test, thank you Mr. Bin Salman."

[Waffdon]

Dundee voted yes. CHAMPIONS

[Yevrah]

They legally can't stop anyone buying a club. It's laughable.

[Giggles]

Dundee voted yes. CHAMPIONS

Which way was it they said they would vote and the leaks showed?

[John Arne]

They legally can't stop anyone buying a club. It's laughable.

Presumably they just don't issue a licence to compete in the league. But yeah, like fuck they are going to do that.

[Shindig]

It took a pandemic for this to happen. :|

[Waffdon]

Which way was it they said they would vote and the leaks showed?

No and then retracted it apparently.

[Waffdon]

United’s Captain stealing my tweet from yesterday on his story :cool:

[Giggles]

United’s Captain stealing my tweet from yesterday on his story :cool:

You’ll see him having to release a statement tomorrow distancing himself from you.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Any Newcastle fan found to show dissent during matches will be executed.

[niko_cee]

I'd 'love it' for Newcastle to get back near the top of the league. It's a shame Mourinho is wasting his life at Spurs as if he'd held on this would be perfect for him.

[Giggles]

I'd 'love it' for Newcastle to get back near the top of the league. It's a shame Mourinho is wasting his life at Spurs as if he'd held on this would be perfect for him.

I’d love to see them up there too but he’s way too past it now for any club that has ambitions of success.

[niko_cee]

It's just always been my thinking that he needs to follow in Bobby Robson's footsteps somewhere, and that's the most logical choice.

[Offshore Toon]

Yeah, Mourinho is done. Rumours of Rafa coming back, which would be nice. It might not be the best move, but it'd be nice.

[niko_cee]

He just needs somewhere to focus his chip-on-the-shoulder-seige mentality.

Benitez coming back and doing well would also be good, although I'm not sure he has it in him any more than Mourinho does. Buying your way to the top is hardly the cake-walk it used to be either.

[Manc]

I can see Newcastle opting for Blanc.

[Shindig]

Bruce with Saudi money is a great option.

[Gray Fox]

Ultimate Bruce Ball incoming.

[Spoonsky]

Imagine, Bruce Ball on a £500m budget.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP. zjsfhf4-wCyOSpqNJHqd6gHaE7%26pid%3DApi&f=1

[Offshore Toon]

I'd give Bruce support if Ashley was gone. It'll never happen, but would be a laugh.