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Ian
08-10-2015, 09:19 PM
I could have sworn we already had one of these for the new board, unless we have and I'm just a thick twat who can't user the search function/ type.

Anyway, I'm reading Memories of Ice, the third Malazan book, and it's bloody brilliant. Unless something like Game of Thrones is about as fantasy-ish as you want to get you'd be a fool not to read it. I'm only halfway through the third of ten books but thus far I'm happily putting Erikson as my favourite fantasy author behind Pratchett (not that the two are comparable in style, really, but I imagine they count as the same genre.)

What are you chaps reading?

Boydy
08-10-2015, 09:35 PM
The Crying of Lot 49. I don't know if I like it or not. It's just weird.

Demerit
08-10-2015, 09:38 PM
I'm halfway through Deadhouse Gates (the second Malazan book) but I haven't picked it up in about two months..

Spoonsky
08-10-2015, 10:18 PM
I just read The Slave by Isaac Bashevis Singer for school. It was pretty good, very good in places. Next up is Italo Calvino, which I'm excited about.

Alex Ferguson
08-10-2015, 10:33 PM
Currently reading Michael Jackson's Dangerous (33 1/3) by Susan Fast. Great critique of one of my favourite albums.

Boydy
08-10-2015, 10:39 PM
I just read The Slave by Isaac Bashevis Singer for school. It was pretty good, very good in places. Next up is Italo Calvino, which I'm excited about.

Which Calvino?

Browning
08-10-2015, 10:43 PM
Still reading ASOIAF, only get to read a chapter or 2 each night usually, so I'm still only on Book 3, though it's nearly done. I've found it to be comfortably the best so far. I loved Game of Thrones and Clash of Kings but it's like he's somehow managed to raise the series to a new level. Unfortunately, anyone I speak to seems to say this is the high point and the others aren't quite as good, but we'll see.

Lee
08-10-2015, 10:49 PM
I was looking for this thread earlier and decided I couldn't be arsed starting it when I realised it wasn't here.

I started reading Clive Woodward's autobiography last week but I can't get past thinking he's a massive wanker so I've knocked it on the head. I've started on Bill Bryson's 'The Road to Little Dribbling' today. It's a sequel to 'Notes from a Small Island' and a couple of chapters in I'm pissing myself already. Such a shame he has spent so many years away from the travel genre.

After this I'll finish off Halldor Laxness' 'Independent People' which I stopped reading for no good reason given I was really enjoying it. I think it might be that summer got in the way. It's a bleak book set in a dreary Iceland and I struggled to stay in the mood for it. Now the seasons are turning I fancy it again.

Spoonsky
08-10-2015, 10:59 PM
Halldor Laxness has a decent book about Mormonism, I think one of my parents read it.


Which Calvino?

The Nonexistant Knight.

Lewis
08-10-2015, 11:56 PM
I started reading Clive Woodward's autobiography last week but I can't get past thinking he's a massive wanker so I've knocked it on the head.

Please tell me somebody bought you that because they thought it might be good for work.

Ian
09-10-2015, 07:27 AM
I've started on Bill Bryson's 'The Road to Little Dribbling' today. It's a sequel to 'Notes from a Small Island' and a couple of chapters in I'm pissing myself already. Such a shame he has spent so many years away from the travel genre.

Want that. His non-travel books are belting too, though.

Lee
09-10-2015, 07:49 AM
Please tell me somebody bought you that because they thought it might be good for work.

Nah, I've had it for ages and never bothered with it. I just got interested when the rugby world cup started. One of the reasons he comes across as a wanker is because he obviously sees himself as some kind of management guru and regularly dishes out advice such as "don't be a cunt to people" and "don't be shit at your job".

I don't read anything because it might be "good for work" anyway. I couldn't think of a shitter way to spend my time.

Luca
09-10-2015, 08:02 AM
The Crying of Lot 49. I don't know if I like it or not. It's just weird.

I liked it, but you get what you pay for with Pynchon. It's brilliant, beautifully written stuff, but he's off-the-wall bonkers.

I'm currently reading The Signal and The Noise by Nate Silver (the guy behind FiveThirtyEight) - it's about our inability, as a society, to make reasonable forecasts and how we can go about improving.

ItalAussie
09-10-2015, 08:15 AM
I'm currently reading The Signal and The Noise by Nate Silver (the guy behind FiveThirtyEight) - it's about our inability, as a society, to make reasonable forecasts and how we can go about improving.

I really enjoyed that book, although I did start to flag towards the end.

Spammer
09-10-2015, 10:49 AM
Rude Kids: The Story of Viz - Decent read so far.

Mazuuurk
10-10-2015, 11:36 PM
I could have sworn we already had one of these for the new board, unless we have and I'm just a thick twat who can't user the search function/ type.

Anyway, I'm reading Memories of Ice, the third Malazan book, and it's bloody brilliant. Unless something like Game of Thrones is about as fantasy-ish as you want to get you'd be a fool not to read it. I'm only halfway through the third of ten books but thus far I'm happily putting Erikson as my favourite fantasy author behind Pratchett (not that the two are comparable in style, really, but I imagine they count as the same genre.)

What are you chaps reading?

Ah, I'd like to hear more about that series. I came in here intending to post about the Kingkiller Chronicles byt Patrick Rothfuss, that I read the first two books of this past summer (third, and supposedly final, one isn't out yet).

Those were so, SO, SO good. So good I'd definitely choose them above ASoFaI series. I just love a fantasy book that has that personal angle, it just follows one character. I read an old trilogy of Robin Hobb ages ago that was a bit like that, but the Kingkiller books were better I think.

Anyway, I'm looking for a new fantasy series to read and the Malazan ones is what's been mostly catching my eye.
Convince me, please.

Luca
10-10-2015, 11:50 PM
I really enjoyed that book, although I did start to flag towards the end.

His insight into the Financial Crisis (MK '08) is more or less bang-on. It's refreshing to see someone write about it from an educated, dispassionate perspective, instead of the usual BUT THE EVIL BANKERS drivel. He appropriates blame evenly and precisely where it's due.

Ian
11-10-2015, 10:12 AM
Ah, I'd like to hear more about that series. I came in here intending to post about the Kingkiller Chronicles byt Patrick Rothfuss, that I read the first two books of this past summer (third, and supposedly final, one isn't out yet).

Those were so, SO, SO good. So good I'd definitely choose them above ASoFaI series. I just love a fantasy book that has that personal angle, it just follows one character. I read an old trilogy of Robin Hobb ages ago that was a bit like that, but the Kingkiller books were better I think.

Anyway, I'm looking for a new fantasy series to read and the Malazan ones is what's been mostly catching my eye.
Convince me, please.

The Malazan books don't follow one individual character, they're very different on that front. I don't know if this is going to continue throughout the whole series but the first one had one set of characters and then the second one had a different set. There were a few mentioned and it's all part of the same overall story which ties in together and happens at the same time, or close enough, to the events of the third book. And now the third one is back to the same characters as the first one. He handles it really well though and he doesn't come across as as much of a weird old perv as George R R Martin does which is a bonus as well.

Mazuuurk
11-10-2015, 05:54 PM
What makes you think GRR Martin is an old perv? The sex? Because I quite appreciate the addition of the crudeness around that, I don't care to much for the sort of very american kind of embellishing of anything sexual happening (even, almost, when they are depicting some negative sexual experience as well).

Anyway, that does sound quite a lot like GRR Martin in a way. Or is it more like how the Tolkien books are structured?

The series is finished, right? I'm definitely not starting another unfinished fantasy series, as I'm already waiting on the Kingkiller Crhonicle book 3 and Winds of Winter from ASoFaI

Ian
11-10-2015, 06:23 PM
I just find the sex-related stuff he writes a bit weird is all.

The structure is similar to ASOIAF, I'd say. It doesn't dedicate entire chapters to following a specific character, or at least not rigidly. You might jump between characters in one location to characters elsewhere or you might have a few pages of one character and then another related character, etc. It's a bit more fluid like that I guess.

And yes, the series is complete. Ten books in ten or eleven years, job done. There is a second series by the guy who co-created the setting with Erikson but I've no idea if those are meant to be any good.

Ian
20-10-2015, 08:24 PM
Just finished the third Malazan book, Memories of Ice. Properly raced through the last hundred pages or so because there was so much going on and it had properly big changes involving major characters. Crikey.

Next up will be The Long Mars, which I will be interested to see if it has a proper story after the second book sort of ambled along.

Boydy
21-10-2015, 09:54 PM
Just finished this:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51tU1wGVI%2BL._SX326_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

Some info about it here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Station_Eleven

Won the Arthur C. Clarke award this year.

It's so fucking good. If you like dystopian futures or post-apocalyptic settings, get it get it get it.

mikem
24-10-2015, 02:41 AM
The Yiddish Policeman's Union

What does an author do after finding both a bizarre WW II State Department plan to create a Jewish refuge in Alaska and a thoroughly unusable Yiddish travel phrasebook in a bookstore with phrases like "I'd like to book a flight."? Apparently the answer is to create a fake Jewish homeland in Sitka Alaska with a Dan Brown style murder mystery. Funny book about identity that never forgets it needs to be a good murder mystery, but Chabon's made up Sitka Alaska with Hasidic gangsters and jewish / Indian land disputes is the real star. Pleasantly surprising.

Boom-Boom
24-10-2015, 10:56 AM
I've recently started reading a book written by 4 survivors of the Titanic.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Story-Titanic-Survivors-Dover-Maritime/dp/0486206106/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1445684152&sr=8-6&keywords=titanic+survivors

It's gripping stuff. Would recommend it.

Boydy
24-10-2015, 01:02 PM
The Yiddish Policeman's Union

What does an author do after finding both a bizarre WW II State Department plan to create a Jewish refuge in Alaska and a thoroughly unusable Yiddish travel phrasebook in a bookstore with phrases like "I'd like to book a flight."? Apparently the answer is to create a fake Jewish homeland in Sitka Alaska with a Dan Brown style murder mystery. Funny book about identity that never forgets it needs to be a good murder mystery, but Chabon's made up Sitka Alaska with Hasidic gangsters and jewish / Indian land disputes is the real star. Pleasantly surprising.

I've just started this.

Henry
26-10-2015, 11:43 AM
I'm still plodding through Trotsky's History of the Russian Revolution and Stephen King's Different Seasons. Both are long, so I fear I bit off more than I could chew at once. Still, nearly there.

Anyone read Trotsky before? Boydy?

Ian
26-10-2015, 12:00 PM
The Long Mars is following a very similar pattern to the previous two books. It still feels like an extended what-if as much as a novel and like they had more ideas than they had room for. Very readable and things are coming together again for the ending but a bit strange.

Lewis
26-10-2015, 12:25 PM
I read a collection of Trotsky's military writings before. They were a bit crap.

'There's only one way to win a campaign; shout, shout and shout again!'

phonics
26-10-2015, 12:36 PM
I'm onto SuperFreakonomics after spending far too long on the first one. They're great reads and perfect anecdote material.

Andrew
26-10-2015, 02:36 PM
Malazan Book Of The Fallen is a great read currently on book five (Midnight Tides) and can not recommend it highly enough.

Ian
26-10-2015, 02:37 PM
You finding that the quality has stayed consistent to the point you're are, Andrew? I'm keen to get stuck into the fourth soon.

Boydy
26-10-2015, 03:53 PM
I'm still plodding through Trotsky's History of the Russian Revolution and Stephen King's Different Seasons. Both are long, so I fear I bit off more than I could chew at once. Still, nearly there.

Anyone read Trotsky before? Boydy?

Nope.

Andrew
26-10-2015, 06:07 PM
Ian half way through the fifth book now mate, still as gripped reading this now as I was reading the first.

My old man went through all 10 books in a matter of weeks and reckons it's the best set of books he has ever read.

Ian
26-10-2015, 08:33 PM
Lofty and Towns (have either of them made it here, yet?) had both read ASOIAF, Wheel of Time, etc. and were both adamant Malazan was the best so I'm pleased to hear further confirmation.

Spoonsky
26-10-2015, 10:08 PM
The Nonexistent Knight is good. Very enjoyable and short, perfect school reading.

nsd
26-10-2015, 10:11 PM
I could have sworn we already had one of these for the new board, unless we have and I'm just a thick twat who can't user the search function/ type.

Anyway, I'm reading Memories of Ice, the third Malazan book, and it's bloody brilliant. Unless something like Game of Thrones is about as fantasy-ish as you want to get you'd be a fool not to read it. I'm only halfway through the third of ten books but thus far I'm happily putting Erikson as my favourite fantasy author behind Pratchett (not that the two are comparable in style, really, but I imagine they count as the same genre.)

What are you chaps reading?

I got the first 3 Malazan books for Christmas years ago and I've not started them yet.

I've just finished The Wheel of Time series (14 fucking novels and a prequel) which was a massive drag in parts (pretty much all of books 5-10) but overall pretty decent. Might get started on Malazan next.

Ian
26-10-2015, 10:18 PM
Yeah, WoT dragged in the middle quite a bit as Jordan spent too much time building up a not-especially-interesting fantasy world and not enough spending time with Rand, Perrin and Mat. And what time was spent with Rand he inevitably moping and complaining about all the beautiful women who were gagging to engage in some bedtop wrestling with him, the poor mite.

Sanderson did an unbelievable job of the last three books, and the ending to his first (Gathering Storm) in particular, when Rand finally got to stop being miserable a fantastic moment.

Get stuck into Malazan, I don't think you'll regret it.

Andrew
26-10-2015, 11:52 PM
Some of the characters you come across in the Malazan books are great.

Karsa "No fucks given" Orlong
Kruppe
Pust

What's your favourites so far?

Ian
27-10-2015, 07:50 AM
Kruppe is good. Quite liked Heboric as well.

Spammer
28-10-2015, 12:52 AM
Blankets. Just finished it. A graphic novel it is.

Holy shit.

Did someone say they were reading it a while back?

Henry
01-11-2015, 01:40 PM
Different Seasons by Stephen King

This is a collection of (non-horror) short stories from King's early career. Three of them have since been made into movies, of which I'd seen two.


The Shawshank Redemption: The prison story, a little different here - the characters are a little rougher and the prison staff aren't as well defined. Familiarity probably robs it of some impact.
Apt Pupil: A young boy gets mixed up with a Nazi war criminal. Dark, intriguing stuff that keeps you guessing.
The Body: A group of twelve year olds go on an adventure along the railways lines to find a dead body. (Stand by Me is the movie.) I found it a bit long-winded.
The Breathing Method: A man joins a gentlemans club at which odd tales are told. The shortest and probably the best of the four. Quite unsettling - there's something just under the surface that isn't explained.

In general, I remain of the view that King is better writing about the real world than the supernatural (those have always been the least interesting parts of his writing to me) but also that he has a tendency to ramble such that some of his writing could do with more editing.

randomlegend
02-11-2015, 11:41 PM
I know they are 'kids' books, but the Edge Chronicles really are great.

I've just finished the second book of the most recent saga and am genuinely looking forward to the next one coming out. Just realised I've been reading them since Primary School :cab:

Henry
04-11-2015, 12:52 PM
The History of the Russian Revolution by Leon Trotsky

I've always been fascinated by Russian history, and how tragic it is. The revolution and the subsequent civil war are perhaps the most tragic episodes. As a key player in these events, Trotsky has a unique perspective writing as a historian 15 years later.
Trotksy is an impressive figure who deserves to be taken seriously, in spite of my thorough ideological disagreement. This is a long, well-written and exacting work which appears to possess factual reliability even as it dispenses with any veneer or objectivity. Its high level of detail is at times absorbing and at times ponderous, and while the overbearing tone and bias in favour of the Bolsheviks grows wearing, it also provides a useful perspective.
The narrative begins with the February Revolution and ends with the October Revolution (or coup?) taking in all intermediate episodes including the April Days, July Days and the Kornilov Revolt. Throughout, the position of the Bolsheviks with the Russian people improves, from a minor fringe grouping to one capable of seizing power. It does appear however that Trotsky continually overstates the popularity of the Bolsheviks. Their eminent position among the industrial workers and soldiers by October was decisive, but it was hardly as unchallenged as presented here, and in an all-Russian context was still a small minority, the population being comprised mostly of peasants. Trotsky (following Lenin) excuses this by appointing the Bolsheviks as the "vanguard" of the revolution, but the inevitable (and real) end-point of that is one-party rule.
Unexamined, in fact, is Trotsky's own opposition to this principle pre-1917 (he didn't join the Bolshviks until that year), describing it as "Bonapartism". Here his fanatical enthusiasm for the idea, and for the principles of dialectic materialism (also extremely questionable) lead to all sorts of historical conclusions that I find indefensible.
Unexamined also are the extent to which Lenin's own positions taken in 1917 are a divergence from those expressed both before and after, not to mention his actions in power, which expose him in my view as an opportunist.
Yes, power to the soviets in 1917 was probably a noble aim, if something that was going to prove difficult in the heat of wartime. The problem with the Bolsheviks is that they identified soviet power with their own power, and with it would very quickly move to build the first totalitarian state and to rebuild the Tsarist machinery of repression in a much more severe form (see the Cheka, Red Terror, war communism, the closure of the Constituent Assembly, the progressive outlawing of opposition parties, the subjugation of the soviets to the party...)
All said, these are criticisms of the Leninist doctrines found in the book, but it's an intriguing read for all that.

Alex Ferguson
11-11-2015, 04:07 PM
Got this cheap on Amazon.

http://i.imgur.com/T8t3x7Zl.jpg

Baz
11-11-2015, 05:45 PM
Blankets. Just finished it. A graphic novel it is.

Holy shit.

Did someone say they were reading it a while back?I've read it.

The childhood stories of him and Phil were epic, but the actual story and all the Jesus tripe really put me off.

Honestly wouldn't have finished it if I wasn't on holiday and the only other book available was something called NYPD Red.

Jimmy Floyd
12-11-2015, 09:32 PM
'Where My Heart Used To Beat' by Sebastian Faulks.

I hit about one novel a year, so tend to make it a heavy one and this definitely is that. Old Seb likes a bit of psychiatry and mental illness - there's a lot of that, but there's also a vivid and brilliant few passages of war experience fighting in Italy which alone make the book worth reading. The rest of it veers between intriguing and occasionally wittering on a bit, but all in all I'm very glad I read it and would recommend to anyone with an interest in 20th century history. There was also an absolutely laughable little piece of fourth wall levity at the end in what is otherwise a deadly serious book, which was bizarre and probably out of place but I liked it.

Henry
12-11-2015, 10:19 PM
I hit about one novel a year

Don't I remember you being one of those who had read a very high proportion of the Top 100 list?

Jimmy Floyd
12-11-2015, 10:35 PM
Nah. I can't remember but I've probably done 20-30 tops, many of them some time ago.

I'd like to read more fiction really but I'm quite closed-minded about it, so often need to be dragged in by the synopsis.

Spoonsky
12-11-2015, 10:48 PM
You might like W.G. Sebald, Jimmy. A bizarre mix of fiction, memoir and history that somehow works perfectly. Nausea in particularly is actually my favorite book but they all seem to fit my description pretty well.

Henry
20-11-2015, 02:27 PM
The Psychopath Test by Jon Ronson

I've been curious for some time about the phenomenon of psychopaths, particularly the difference between those who commit crimes and those who function more normally. Here, Jon Ronson (of The Men Who Star at Goats) explores the issue in its various forms, chatting with patients in mental institutes, CEO's who exhibit the traits, psychiatrists, conspiracy theorists and Scientologists. It's a fairly easy read in a conversational style. Unfortunately the issue is explored in little depth and ends up trivialising the whole thing, with the take-away message that there are "degrees" of madness and that psychiatry isn't a particularly developed or reliable discipline are hardly world-shaking. I'll probably look elsewhere for something better on the subject before long.

Magic
23-11-2015, 03:46 PM
I've just bought 'Trusted Mole' for £2 delivered. I wanted a book on the Yugoslavian war but there was some quite intense reading. Not sure if I'd have the stomach for it. So I bought this instead, which seems more exciting than thousands of pages of political stuff.

Spammer
23-11-2015, 04:09 PM
TA Today

You'd like this one, Magic. It's about Psychotherapy and shit.

Ian
23-11-2015, 07:41 PM
Finished the Seymour I was reading (it was typically pretty good) and am now onto Half the World by Joe Abercrombie. It's easy reading (aimed at young adults, I believe) but it's off to a great start. I'll definitely be trying some of his other stuff once I'm done with this trilogy.

Benny
23-11-2015, 08:34 PM
Currently slogging through Tell it To The World, which is about the Serbs covering up their genocide during Kosovo. It's really interesting, but the problem is it's from the view of one of the lawyers during the trials, and there's a lot of lawyer talk which is a little dull and quite hard to read. The accounts from the testifying survivors are fucking horrific though.

Townsend
24-11-2015, 10:33 AM
Nice to read some Malazan love in this thread. They are for me the best books I've read. I'd describe the scope and scale of the Malazan world to ASOIAF as ASOIAF is to the hungry caterpillar.

I'm interested in how you get on with Half a world Ian. I've read and like Abercrombie's other books but was put off by the young adult tag.

Ian
24-11-2015, 03:42 PM
Half a King was a bit lightweight overall but very enjoyable and you'll whizz through it in no time so I'd say get a cheapo paperback version, give it a bash and then decide from there if you want to go on to Half a World and Half a War.

Henry
25-11-2015, 06:04 PM
Letters from the Earth by Mark Twain.

This is a very short book that was published posthumously by Twain's daughter, never released during his lifetime because of its controversial contents. It consists of a series of satirical letters by an angel exiled on earth, describing his opinions on the Christian religion. The biblical tales are related, along with an astonished and angry commentary at their inconsistent, illogical nature and the depravity of the "God" that they describe. It's amusing, if nothing particularly new in to an age where Dawkins and Hitchens are widely read.

Henry
29-11-2015, 10:05 PM
The Gripping Hand by Larry Niven

The sequel to The Mote in Gods Eye, which I read a couple of months back. The story picks up about 30 years later and again concerns the relationship between The Empire of Man and the Motie civilisation. A couple of the more minor characters are fleshed out and prove to be really interesting. Overall it's serviceable but it lacks the plot twists and the suspense of the first in the series.

Ian
29-11-2015, 10:11 PM
I think Half the World feels more like Abercrombie was trying to shoehorn YOUNG ADULT stuff in than the previous one, but it's still a good read.

I've got another of his up next but it's the first of his The First Law books. Be interesting to see how different it is. Then that'll see me through 'til Christmas.

Henry
30-11-2015, 09:02 PM
Really enjoying Kane and Abel thus far, I have to say. Any Jeffrey Archer fans here?

Jimmy Floyd
30-11-2015, 09:06 PM
Well that was unexpected.

Henry
30-11-2015, 09:29 PM
What? That I would read something written by a former Tory MP?

Ian
12-12-2015, 10:55 AM
The trailer for the BFG and my niece starting on Matilda, her first Dahl book, has had me thinking about what my favourites of his are.

I reckon it'd be two obvious ones of the childrens ones, Matilda along with Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Some of the short story collections are also really good though (Skin, The Landlady, Dip in the Pool, Man from the South, Taste and The Umbrella Man being a handful I can remember the names of) and I like both Boy and Going Solo too, if only as a (probably skewed) view into a different time.

Boydy
12-12-2015, 01:55 PM
Currently reading Cormac McCarthy's The Road. It's decent but it doesn't seem as great as it's cracked up to be.

Magic
12-12-2015, 01:58 PM
The trailer for the BFG and my niece starting on Matilda, her first Dahl book, has had me thinking about what my favourites of his are.

I reckon it'd be two obvious ones of the childrens ones, Matilda along with Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Some of the short story collections are also really good though (Skin, The Landlady, Dip in the Pool, Man from the South, Taste and The Umbrella Man being a handful I can remember the names of) and I like both Boy and Going Solo too, if only as a (probably skewed) view into a different time.

We've just started on James and the Giant Peach. I didn't really like that one. I distinctly remember Fantastic Mr Fox being my favourite as a child.

Jimmy Floyd
12-12-2015, 02:05 PM
Dahl's children's books are works of utter genius. They'll still be read in 100 years' time.

Baz
12-12-2015, 02:11 PM
I read Boy for the first time as an adult, and thought it was awesome.

Browning
12-12-2015, 02:15 PM
I think it was on the old board where I said I was reading all of his to my daughter. Matilda was a little disappointing as not a lot happened and from memory I think the film added a lot more.

Jimmy Floyd
12-12-2015, 02:18 PM
The film was great as well, unlike the Fantastic Mr Fox film which I reckon should genuinely be censored so as not to ruin the book's good name.

Browning
12-12-2015, 02:28 PM
Although more I think about it the book was still genuinely brilliant for a children's book, I guess it just surprised me that a lot of stuff wasn't there.

Fantastic Mr Fox and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory were both great too. James and the Giant Peach seemed to go on too long but I was reading it at a time when my daughter wouldn't last through more than a few pages each night.

Ian
12-12-2015, 02:32 PM
James and the Giant Peach wasnt ever one I was keen on.

Magic
12-12-2015, 02:35 PM
Its probably the most suitable for a three year old I reckon.

Boydy
12-12-2015, 02:37 PM
The only one I can remember reading was Danny the Champion of the World. It was good.

mugbull
18-12-2015, 01:21 AM
History of Western Philosophy by Bertrand Russell. He's been shitting on Plato since page one, it's pretty funny.

Henry
22-12-2015, 10:44 PM
No god but God: The Origins, Evolution & Future of Islam by Reza Aslan

Islam is the source of much discussion these days but I find that few of us actually know much about it. Reza Aslan is a moderate Muslim of Iranian descent living in America, and this is his effort to represent the religion and its history to western readers in a positive way. As such, this presumes little knowledge and emphasises the progressive aspects of Islam, including egalitarianism, pluralism and pacifism whilst decrying the extremists who he believes have perverted it, explaining the historical evolution and the the contingencies that have led to the present situation. I'm sure that a lot of this could be disputed but it at the very least presents an alternative view that one can counterpose to the overwhelming negativity that one tends to find in western media.
One point that I must take issue with is that while the historical narrative presented appears to be fairly reliable, Aslan's own personal belief stated in his opening (paraphrased) that religious "truth" intersects with but is not identical to historical truth sounds like relativist mumbo-jumbo to me. Still, you can't have everything, and if that kind of cognitive dissonance is how he reconciles his religious practice with his scholarly work, then so be it - there is limited impact on the latter.

Magic
30-12-2015, 03:55 PM
I've just bought 'Trusted Mole' for £2 delivered. I wanted a book on the Yugoslavian war but there was some quite intense reading. Not sure if I'd have the stomach for it. So I bought this instead, which seems more exciting than thousands of pages of political stuff.

This was absolutely fucking excellent, by the way. Well worth a read.

Also, lads:

http://i67.tinypic.com/20axulu.jpg

:drool:

Jimmy Floyd
30-12-2015, 03:58 PM
I might have to order that set, just because.

igor_balis
30-12-2015, 04:12 PM
<3

Getting proper nostalgic for the Danny Champion of the World audiobook I listened to over and over again as a little kid.

Boydy
30-12-2015, 04:57 PM
This was absolutely fucking excellent, by the way. Well worth a read.

Also, lads:

http://i67.tinypic.com/20axulu.jpg

:drool:

Those for the kid? Or just for you? She's what, three now? Do you buy her loads of dolls and shit 'for girls' or give her more 'gender neutral' toys? I ask because I was visiting my three year old cousin last week and everything is just fucking dolls, dolls, dolls. So much girly shit. She's going to grow up and just be another twat 'princess' in this shitty town.

Lewis
30-12-2015, 04:59 PM
I bet the princess will be happy, unlike every single person who has ever bought/campaigned for gender-neutral toys.

Magic
30-12-2015, 05:00 PM
Those for the kid? Or just for you? She's what, three now? Do you buy her loads of dolls and shit 'for girls' or give her more 'gender neutral' toys? I ask because I was visiting my three year old cousin last week and everything is just fucking dolls, dolls, dolls. So much girly shit. She's going to grow up and just be another twat 'princess' in this shitty town.

I'm treating her on the basis that she'll turn out to be one of those gender swapping cunts so either way I can't go wrong.

They are for her, we're nearly done with the Giant Peach so I reckon it might be the BFG next.

She does have girly dolls and shit, we got her a doll's house for Christmas, she loves putting on make up (like her Mum not for real) but at the same time she loves artistry, playing the drums, going on her bike, puzzles, board games etc.

Boydy
30-12-2015, 05:00 PM
Alright. :(

What are you reading at the minute, Lewis?

Lewis
30-12-2015, 05:02 PM
Nothing.

Boydy
30-12-2015, 05:02 PM
I'm treating her on the basis that she'll turn out to be one of those gender swapping cunts so either way I can't go wrong.

They are for her, we're nearly done with the Giant Peach so I reckon it might be the BFG next.

She does have girly dolls and shit, we got her a doll's house for Christmas, she loves putting on make up (like her Mum not for real) but at the same time she loves artistry, playing the drums, going on her bike, puzzles, board games etc.

That sounds like a pretty healthy balance. I'm not totally against gendered toys, it's just that they seem to be all my cousin has. Her parents aren't the brightest though so that's probably not a surprise. The other creative and educational stuff doesn't seem to get encouraged.

Magic
30-12-2015, 05:02 PM
How do I find 'similar to' in terms of books? Like on IMDB?

Boydy
30-12-2015, 05:03 PM
Nothing.

Liar.

Magic
30-12-2015, 05:04 PM
That sounds like a pretty healthy balance. I'm not totally against gendered toys, it's just that they seem to be all my cousin has. Her parents aren't the brightest though so that's probably not a surprise. The other creative and educational stuff doesn't seem to get encouraged.

I know I boast a lot but my one is actually a genius. She can write her name legibly and can point out simple words, spell them and then tell us what it says.

mugbull
30-12-2015, 05:04 PM
Just the old, you know, I'm reading about wars that maybe never happened and generals that would shit on my face if i ever actually spoke to them in real life.

mugbull
30-12-2015, 05:05 PM
Oh man, i was like 6 posts late to that one

Boydy
30-12-2015, 05:05 PM
Just the old, you know, I'm reading about wars that maybe never happened and generals that would shit on my face if i ever actually spoke to them in real life.

Wars that maybe never happened?

mugbull
30-12-2015, 05:09 PM
Just forget it man, some things aren't meant to be.

Lewis
30-12-2015, 05:10 PM
Liar.

I'm using my saddo time to re-write things I've already done the reading for, so I've got On War on the kitchen table and a load of shit articles.

Boydy
30-12-2015, 05:11 PM
Use it to do your WDYTOE.

Magic
30-12-2015, 05:18 PM
Lewis what are some good historical war books? Not boring, plodding ones but exciting ones.

mugbull
30-12-2015, 05:18 PM
Speaking of On War, I'm about to read that book for the FOURTH FUCKING TIME this coming quarter. I've enjoyed it less and less every successive read, so i might dip into negative utility this time around.

Lewis
30-12-2015, 05:30 PM
Lewis what are some good historical war books? Not boring, plodding ones but exciting ones.

You need to be a bit more specific.


Speaking of On War, I'm about to read that book for the FOURTH FUCKING TIME this coming quarter. I've enjoyed it less and less every successive read, so i might dip into negative utility this time around.

It really is the best thing. Have you read much similar stuff?

Ian
30-12-2015, 05:43 PM
That Joe Abercrombie book was excellent. Enjoyed it very much and will be getting onto the rest of the trilogy.

Bryson's new one up next. :drool:

mugbull
30-12-2015, 07:13 PM
It really is the best thing. Have you read much similar stuff?

I've read purely philosophical works and purely historical ones, but nothing that was the melange that Clausewitz was. I'm sure I will in the class i'm taking though (International and Global Security). I was made to read Sun Tzu but that shit don't count.

Lewis
30-12-2015, 07:21 PM
Do you have a copy of your reading list? I've always been led to believe that the Americans like to think that the world starts with Alfred Thayer Mahan and ends with Bernard Brodie (maybe Quincy Wright in between).

Magic
30-12-2015, 08:23 PM
You need to be a bit more specific.

I don't know. I really enjoyed Trusted Mole so something of that ilk. That was more about a man's experiences through a war from a neutral point of view, rather than an in-depth analysis of political decisions, military overviews etc. I'd also like if it was as true to the truth as possible and not biased in any way. I realise history is written by the winner, though.

Magic
30-12-2015, 08:44 PM
Fuck it I've just bought this: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/102305.The_Forgotten_Soldier

Lewis
30-12-2015, 08:47 PM
I haven't read many books like that. Dave might have.

Magic
30-12-2015, 08:51 PM
Are yours more historical fact? I'm afraid to go down that route in case I get one that's exceptionally dry and boring (because I have a short attention span). I'm nearly finished TM which is some achievement given my desolate motivation. I've really enjoyed it. I've not finished my American Politics book and I don't think I will. It's one where you have to take notes.

Jimmy Floyd
30-12-2015, 08:55 PM
Read Birdsong, if you can handle a bit of arty farting about. He writes war scenes better than anyone I've come across.

Henry
04-01-2016, 09:51 PM
Kane and Abel by Jeffrey Archer

Jeffrey Archer is well-known as a disgraced former-politician who has spent some time in jail, however he is also reputed as an excellent and prolific writer. This was an early work and seems to be among his best known. It concerns the fortunes of two contrasting figures, an American banking heir and a Polish immigrant throughout the twentieth century and the rivalry that develops between them. I liked Archers writing style, and the first portion of the book in particular is very well done and evocative. Unfortunately I did feel that as things developed, the plot contained far too many contrivances, success came far too easily for the main characters and their behaviour towards each other increasingly petty. Still, I felt it worthwhile and enjoyed the historical panorama despite the flaws.

ItalAussie
04-01-2016, 11:44 PM
I like the good Jeffrey Archer books. I enjoy their scope.

First Among Equals is also enjoyable. Although there are two versions, with a major character removed from one of them, and his plot beats given to the other characters as appropriate. This led to one very confusing conversation between myself and a friend, as her favourite character wasn't in my version of the book.

Ian
05-01-2016, 02:40 AM
The new Bryson book is entertaining, as I expected/hoped. There's a bit more Grumpy Old Man-ing in there and so far he's done a bit more waffling about historical stuff related to the relatively few places he's been rather than going to as many places as my memory has him going to in Notes from a Small Island but I'm enjoying it a lot all the same.

Spoonsky
05-01-2016, 04:43 AM
Finished Dubliners last night, for school. On the surface it's quite boring, dig a bit deeper and some of the stories are absolutely brilliant (some are still just boring). The ending of The Dead naturally transcends the rest of it.

I'm up to Act IV in Macbeth. Shakespeare is fucking stunning, isn't he? There's no one else really comes close.

mugbull
05-01-2016, 05:05 AM
I've never met a more intellectual 9-year old. Props Stillinger

Chrissy
05-01-2016, 06:22 AM
I'm reading the Horus Heresy series which is set in the Warhammer 30k universe. Those of you that don't know what that means, well in, you have a social life no doubt.

Spoonsky
05-01-2016, 07:32 AM
I've never met a more intellectual 9-year old. Props Stillinger

Macbeth is for school too, for the record. That said, I did forget another book I just finished, A Woman in Arabia (http://www.amazon.com/Woman-Arabia-Writings-Penguin-Classics/dp/0143107372), about Gertrude Bell (whom more people should know of). I wasn't a huge fan of the style - it tells the story of her life interspersed with excerpts from her letters - but they pulled it off really nicely and the finale, the creation of modern Iraq, was surprisingly emotional for me. I'd definitely recommend it to anyone with an interest in the events of Lawrence of Arabia, or just of the Middle East in general.

Magic
05-01-2016, 07:44 AM
I'm reading the Horus Heresy series which is set in the Warhammer 30k universe. Those of you that don't know what that means, well in, you have a social life no doubt.

Warhammer. :cool:

Never played it IRL but the PC games were fucking incredible.

Manc
07-01-2016, 11:03 PM
The Art of Stillness by Pico Llyer is a great one sitting read.

Spammer
08-01-2016, 10:25 AM
Arousal: The Logic of Sexual Fantasies

Interesting shit. The dude that reckons that sexuality cannot really be expressed when the individual holds feelings of shame and guilt, and that sexual fantasies are ways in which the person circumvents any of those things is able to express their sexuality without any of those feelings. So, for example, someone who has submissive fantasies might on some level feel a bit guilty about how powerful they are in day to day life, or they might feel ashamed of sexuality and general and only feel comfortable about it when they're being 'forced' into it. On the other hand, dominant fantasies can relate to feelings of powerlessness in day to day life or, on the other hand, guilt about hurting people - being able to 'hurt' or overpower someone in a safe environment in which they other person enjoys it can enable that person to let go and stop worrying about doing it.

He boils a lot of it down to childhood and upbringing in the development of 'pathogenic' beliefs about oneself which can lead to certain fantasies developing to circumvent the guilt/shame associated with them. All that is pretty standard psychodynamic stuff. He talks a fair bit about standard BDSM but also fantasies like transvestism, being raped, being pissed on and fetishes for inanimate objects and stuff like that. Really interesting. The main thing to bear in mind though is that any one fantasy can arise for any number of different reasons, and the particular reason depends entirely on the person in question. He sets out a decent toolkit for figuring it out though, and figuring out why people fantasise about what they fantasise about.

Henry
11-01-2016, 08:50 PM
Casino by Nicholas Pileggi

This is the book that led to Scorsese's movie of the same name. Being quite familiar with the latter and having previously enjoyed Wiseguys which has a similar relationship with Goodfellas, I thought that reading the true story of events might be interesting. It is, in case you don't know, the story of Frank Rosenthal and Anthony Spilotro, both figures connected to the Chicago Mafia, who ran casinos and organised crime in Las Vegas for a number of years.
It does give a lot more info than the movie, which changed all of the names and quite a few of the events in order to make for better storytelling. The result is something more brutal and less glamorous than what we seen onscreen. Unfortunately however there are drawbacks - narration is minimal and the stories are told by interweaving interviews with several of the participants. As a result it can be difficult to keep track of all of the names, to tell who is speaking, and worse, who is being honest (these are criminals and conmen after all). So - worthwhile but only because it was fairly short.

Boydy
23-01-2016, 09:29 PM
I finished The Book of Strange New Things last week. It's about a Christian minister who goes as a missionary to a new planet where a corporation has set up a base to minister to the aliens there. It's really good.

I've started David Mitchell's The Bone Clocks now. I loved Cloud Atlas but this one might be a little too fantasy-ish for my liking based on what I've read so far.

Magic
23-01-2016, 09:45 PM
Just ordered Bridge On The River Drina. My obsession with the Balkans continues. That Sarajevo meet is definitely on, Spoonsky. :cool:

Spammer
26-01-2016, 01:24 PM
Can't Stop Won't Stop: A History of the Hip Hop Generation, by Jeff Chang

It starts back in the 50's and 60's to give a proper sense of social context to it all. It's discussed the social history of the Bronx and Kingston so far. Only three chapters in but it's a cracking read.

Jimmy Floyd
26-01-2016, 01:36 PM
With all the downtime at work I'm starting a rampage through classic fiction. First up, Tender is the Night. Gah. I hate Americans, especially Americans poncing about in Europe between the wars.

Boydy
26-01-2016, 06:26 PM
You're reading in work? Do they not see you? Won't they go mental?

Jimmy Floyd
26-01-2016, 06:33 PM
Not a physical book, obviously. I achieve remarkable amounts, including all my daytime posts on here, just glancing at my phone (and they can't really see what I'm doing at my desk anyway).

Ian
26-01-2016, 07:30 PM
The new Bryson book is entertaining, as I expected/hoped. There's a bit more Grumpy Old Man-ing in there and so far he's done a bit more waffling about historical stuff related to the relatively few places he's been rather than going to as many places as my memory has him going to in Notes from a Small Island but I'm enjoying it a lot all the same.

This about sums up my thoughts on it as a whole. It's not his best book by any means but I love a bit of Bryson so it was still damn good.

I'm now onto House of Chains of the Malazan series. It's off to a good start though so far it has mostly appeared to have absolutely nothing to do with any of the other three books. I know that'll come from the blurb on the back and there have in the last page or so been a few nods towards existing characters and events but not much so far.

Lee
26-01-2016, 07:44 PM
I was really disappointed by the new Bryson effort. He has become too miserable about anything which he perceives to be modern. I found it a bit boring and, by the end, even began to dislike him a bit. I wish I'd left it alone.

Jimmy Floyd
26-01-2016, 07:54 PM
I thought he was a right tit throughout the original one, but still brilliantly funny and right. I started this one but put it down after about ten pages.

Magic
26-01-2016, 07:55 PM
My step-dad has the new one. It was an utterly painful first chapter, what an old moaning cunt.

Ian
26-01-2016, 07:57 PM
I'd definitely say that his recent books before this have been better served by him writing about something he's interested in because in Little Dribbling he clearly still loves the UK but spends too much time mooching about the South complaining about things ways in which Britain has changed that he doesn't approve of rather than visiting new places he didn't go to in Small Island and talking about those. And some of the things he's moaning about just aren't things we haven't heard a zillion times. We're well aware that Katie Price is an idiot, Bill.

I liked it but it's probably his worst book when compared to his previous high standards. His old travel books are still his best stuff but I've really enjoyed everything of his, really. One Summer: America 1927 was brilliant.

Magic
26-01-2016, 07:57 PM
To be fair I was reading previously about an 18 year old young man describing the horrors of the Eastern Front so you can understand why I found it annoying and pathetic.

Henry
29-01-2016, 07:25 PM
The Bedroom Secrets of the Master Chefs by Irvine Welsh

Another of my periodic visits to the precariat of Edinburgh with Irvine Welsh. This one is partially on familiar ground, the protagonist being an unlikeable and vindicative alcoholic, but also somewhat surreal as it centres around a supernatural plot device linking him to another character.
It's genuinely hilarious in places, and despite the premise being a little unusual for Welsh, the characters are real fleshed-out human beings. As always the scathing yet sympathetic portrayal of modern society in its alienation and depravity is quite enriching. I must remember to return more often.

Henry
14-02-2016, 09:53 PM
Apocalypse: The Great Jewish Revolt against Rome, AD66 by Neil Faulkner

Ancient history can often be a very dry read, a consequence of both scholarly uncertainty about the events and the remove at which they exist from the reader. This account of the Jewish uprising of the first century by Neil Faulkner makes amends for this by applying a Marxist perspective to the tale, casting the Romans and their Hellenised client elite (including the temple authorities) as the oppressing classes, and the mostly rural peasantry over which they rule as the oppressed. It's an interesting and very worthwhile approach - while it obviously has it's limitations, it lends an immediacy to the story and empathy towards its participants.
The uprising, the subsequent sacking of Jersusalem, and destruction of the temple were among the central events influencing the formation of Christianity and in the formation of what we now know as Judaism. Faulkner covers this, the prior history of the region, Roman politics, military strategy and much else besides, covering an impressive amount of ground in less than 300 pages.

GS
14-02-2016, 09:57 PM
The sack of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple are key events when one considers Israeli actions in 1967 as well.

GS
20-02-2016, 11:31 PM
Lads, if anyone is interested thebookpeople.co.uk are doing some quite excellent box set deals e.g. there's a Max Hastings set of books (Bomber Command, Das Reich, Battle for the Falklands) for a fiver (circa £30+ on Amazon for all three separately), a Hemingway set for £9 (including his major works) and others which may appeal.

Henry
29-02-2016, 11:08 PM
Inferno by Dan Brown.

After the last one I had decided not to read Dan Brown any more, however having been in Venice recently and hearing that this was partly set there, I decided to give it a go. The plot concerns an attempt to release a bioweapon by a terrorist concerned with overpopulation. He's obsessed with Dante, bases much of his plan around Dante's Inferno and leaves clues to the location of the weapon also based on Inferno for Professor Langdon and other characters to find.
Of course this is as silly as it sounds. It is more of the same - obviously nonsense in a lot of the detail (no, IQ's don't go up to 202) and with a convoluted plot that has so many rug-pulls that you're left with very little firm ground on which to stand. The dialogue and writing generally is clunky and unsubtle. And yet as a travel guide it has some merit - I did learn more about the things I'd seen in Venice, I learned enough about Florence to want to see it, and the Hagia Sophia in Istanbul has now become something I will make it my business to go to at some stage.

Magic
16-03-2016, 09:06 PM
Getting through Bridge on the Drina. The author so vividly described a bloke being tortured then eventually impaled on a stake for maximum keep alive/humiliation that I felt a bit queasy afterwards and still cannot escape the images my brain has created.

Browning
16-03-2016, 09:17 PM
Finally finished all of ASOIAF a couple of nights ago. Limiting myself to 1 chapter a night before bed meant it took forever, but it was worth it. I actually didn't think it declined at all after book 3 which is what I was warned of. Obviously book 3 had all the big events, but I enjoyed the slower paced focus on smaller characters just as much. God knows how some people have coped waiting 4 years for the next one.... but come 2020 I'll know their pain when it still isn't published.

Moved onto the Prequel which is really a collection of shorter stories, but am really enjoying that too.

Lee
16-03-2016, 09:26 PM
Getting through Bridge on the Drina. The author so vividly described a bloke being tortured then eventually impaled on a stake for maximum keep alive/humiliation that I felt a bit queasy afterwards and still cannot escape the images my brain has created.

Yeah, but have you wanked over it yet?

Ian
16-03-2016, 10:14 PM
Finished the fourth Malazan book. So good. If it turns out Eriksson can keep up this quality over all ten, and having done so in the course of about twelve years, Martin might as well top himself and let somebody else finish the job for him.

Moving onto Shakespeare's Local. a book about The George Inn in Southwark and that I bought because the author, Pete Brown, was described as "Bill Bryson for beer lovers." He doesn't quite have the style of Bryson's that has me enjoying basically anything he writes but it's been interesting enough so far.

GS
17-03-2016, 12:42 PM
Finally finished all of ASOIAF a couple of nights ago. Limiting myself to 1 chapter a night before bed meant it took forever, but it was worth it. I actually didn't think it declined at all after book 3 which is what I was warned of. Obviously book 3 had all the big events, but I enjoyed the slower paced focus on smaller characters just as much. God knows how some people have coped waiting 4 years for the next one.... but come 2020 I'll know their pain when it still isn't published.

Moved onto the Prequel which is really a collection of shorter stories, but am really enjoying that too.

A Feast For Crows is the weakest because it focuses on the 'less interesting' characters, but A Dance With Dragons is great. Book six might never see the light of the day at the rate we're going.

Jimmy Floyd
17-03-2016, 01:30 PM
On balance, I preferred the one with Brienne slugging her way through bogs and Davos sitting in pubs to the one with dragontits being terminally dull.

Boydy
17-03-2016, 04:44 PM
I didn't think either of you two would be into that stuff.

phonics
17-03-2016, 04:56 PM
I didn't think either of you two would be into that stuff.

Have you read them? They're basically history books at this point.

Henry
17-03-2016, 06:52 PM
That Malazan stuff sounds great, just very daunting.

Boydy
17-03-2016, 07:48 PM
Have you read them? They're basically history books at this point.

No and I'm not sure what that means.

Magic
17-03-2016, 07:50 PM
Fiction being history? This is Joe trying to be clever again. We all know what happens when he does that.

phonics
17-03-2016, 08:13 PM
No and I'm not sure what that means.

They read like history books but from a first person perspective. The whole story is basically a rip-off of the War of the Roses with Dragons. It's why I like them, I only read non-fiction generally but they read so well it could just as well be.

Boydy
17-03-2016, 08:17 PM
They read like history books but from a first person perspective. The whole story is basically a rip-off of the War of the Roses with Dragons. It's why I like them, I only read non-fiction generally but they read so well it could just as well be.

I don't get that. Pretty sure Lewis is the same. It's such an odd view to take.

phonics
17-03-2016, 11:02 PM
I don't get that. Pretty sure Lewis is the same. It's such an odd view to take.

I don't read enough to justify reading something not real. Game of Thrones I just wanted to know the plot as people on reddit were shit posting spoilers.

Boydy
17-03-2016, 11:07 PM
That doesn't make it less weird.

Lewis
17-03-2016, 11:15 PM
I got about an hour into Atlas Shrugged at university, but apart from that I probably haven't read a fiction book since sixth form.

GS
17-03-2016, 11:58 PM
I thought that when I was about 17, but quickly realised it was a fucking stupid position to adopt.

Spammer
23-03-2016, 10:28 AM
Yeah I can't usually be arsed with fiction either, apart from the odd sci-fi book. Feels like self-indulgent shite a lot of the time and I don't feel like I get much out of it.

Ian
23-03-2016, 01:17 PM
They're better than ASOIAF, AD, though the shifting focus does cause the various story threads to get a touch muddled at times.

GS
24-03-2016, 01:15 AM
If ASOIAF could be described as "the Wars of the Roses crossed with Imperial Rome", how would you describe Malazan? I've been interested in buying the first book for some time.

Adamski
24-03-2016, 07:34 AM
Bought the first Malazan book the other day, only £6 on Amazon.

Ian
24-03-2016, 07:39 AM
I haven't a clue. They don't kill characters off for a shortage of other ideas, it is more overtly fantasy/magic (not to the point of people walking about lobbing fireballs, mind) and there is no Dragonbore.

I'll leave it up to you to decide which of those are good, bad or meh things. Oh, and he's fucking FINISHED them so you're not relying on George thinking his way out of the hole I imagine he's written himself into.

The strangest thing about it is that he'll do books with an entirely different set of characters and the one I've just read had a new character who was good reading but only made sense about 150 pages in.

If you like ASOIAF then it's worth your while at least trying the first one.

GS
24-03-2016, 07:04 PM
So is it LOTR with wizards etc. set during, say, the Middle Ages?

Ian
25-03-2016, 12:42 AM
Well it's not LOTR because it doesn't have 16 pages of hairy-footed midget signalongs either.

I dunno that it has a particular obvious time period because the factions/races in it are a bit more diverse than that once you're a few books deep. Erikson is better than Martin, it's just whether you prefer the characters/setting of one over the other. I don't think the Malazan books have a character to match Tyrion, say, but there's no doubt in my mind which is the better series.

Henry
14-04-2016, 03:53 PM
Debunking Economics by Steve Keen

One of a small number of economists both who predicated the great recession and who had a model describing why it happened, this is Professor Steve Keen's take-down of his own profession, accusing a large majority of economists (neoclassicists mainly) as ideologically-driven and obsessed with abstract models which are contradictory and fail to reflect reality.
It's very involved and technical to the point of becoming tedious in large parts, but while it may overstate its case in some instances, it's quite convincing and it's quite astonishing that there's so much hokum in mainstream circulation.

Boydy
24-04-2016, 11:14 PM
I'm really tempted to get a Kindle so I can read in bed lying on my side and without needing both hands. It's been prompted by reading Stephen King's 11.22.63 which a guy in work lent me which is a 700 or so page hardback monster. But the pretentious wanker inside me likes having proper books on shelves too much and dreams of having a proper library room one day.

Sir Andy Mahowry
24-04-2016, 11:57 PM
20% off right now, Boyd.

I've gone through about 5 kindles now.

The voyage is a bit of a beast.

Henry
25-04-2016, 06:16 PM
I can send people some (i.e. many thousands) of e-books if they wish to find justification for having a Kindle.

Ian
25-04-2016, 06:35 PM
Shakespeare's Local was an interesting read if you're a suitably tedious beer bore like me. Though not enough that I'm sure I'll rush to read more of his stuff.

Now onto Half a War, the third in that trilogy by Joe Abercrombie. Keen to read the second of his The First Law trilogy too. He's really good.

Magic
06-05-2016, 08:44 PM
Nearly finished Bridge on the Drina. What a journey.

Next I'm interested in European history, mainly the empires etc before WW1 that ultimately culminated in WW1.

Any recommendations?

GS
06-05-2016, 08:56 PM
I've just finished Max Hastings' 1914 which is a very good account of the run-up to the outbreak with some very interesting background material. Beyond this, Montefiore's The Romanovs is meant to be very good for the Russian Imperial house.

Magic
06-05-2016, 09:15 PM
Looks like a big wedge that.

Ever read The Three Nations trilogy by Christoph Fischer?

Lewis
06-05-2016, 09:15 PM
I haven't read either of those, but Christopher Clark's The Sleepwalkers used to be regarded as probably the best book about the start of it.

Spammer
08-05-2016, 08:15 AM
20% off right now, Boyd.

I've gone through about 5 kindles now.

The voyage is a bit of a beast.

How've you got through so many?

Reading 'All Out' by Albert Ellis at the moment. He's the creator of REBT which in large part is what is now CBT. I didn't get on with CBT as I didn't appreciate some daft bint telling me how to think, but reading about the ideas in a book is great as I can take it on its own terms. This is basically about CBT except it's all grounded in his own experiences and the shit he's been through. Recommended.

Magic
08-05-2016, 08:19 AM
I haven't read either of those, but Christopher Clark's The Sleepwalkers used to be regarded as probably the best book about the start of it.

Cheers just bought it.

Magic
15-05-2016, 10:56 AM
I haven't read either of those, but Christopher Clark's The Sleepwalkers used to be regarded as probably the best book about the start of it.

Jesus Christ it's a monster.

Henry
15-05-2016, 11:46 AM
Almost finished Les Miserables. It's fucking huge. Last door-stopper for a while.

Henry
25-05-2016, 08:59 PM
Les Miserables by Victor Hugo

I try to read one or two very long books per year and this had been on my list for some time. There was no competition from TV or internet in the 19th century and as such, works like this were more likely to succeed without the extensive editing that they'd get today. That's both for good and ill, I believe.
This is an engrossing, all-encompassing novel that attempts to give you a full representation of the time and place in which it's set, and a full exploration of the characters about whom it concerns. Hugo's prose (even upon translation) is majestic and his humanity is moving. On the one hand I have a greater understanding of Paris and French history than I did before, and one cannot fail to be gratified at having been through the ringer with Jean Valjean, the ex-convict turned saint who attempts to evade the law and ameliorate some of the misery around him. On the other, while it adds to the aforementioned epic experience, I can't help but wonder if the author needed several chapters dedicated to an aside on the Battle of Waterloo, and others on the history of the Parisian sewage system!
It's all probably better known to most people from the musical these days, and I had a passing familiarity with the plot going in. But there's so much more here that even if you do know how things develop, and you have the time, it's worthwhile.

GS
25-05-2016, 09:17 PM
The point of the 'digression' sections is that they establish the location and character of a scene before the characters themselves are placed therein. The reason why he, presumably, undertakes a history of the sewage system is so that you have a sense of where Valjean and Marius are lost - rather than it just being some generic shithole in the ground. It's the same when he provides a background for the type of location where Valjean and Cosette hide after Javert starts chasing them. He does the same thing in Notre Dame de Paris with Paris itself.

The digressions in War and Peace appear to have far less to do with establishing the scene or aspects of the plot.

Henry
25-05-2016, 09:19 PM
Yes, I know that. As I said, they give a fuller sense of time and place - but they do drag somewhat. See also the digressions on slang and religious orders.

Ian
25-05-2016, 10:08 PM
Tomorrow I will be starting Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy. Looking forward to it.

Spoonsky
01-06-2016, 01:33 AM
I need some summer reading, fellas. I've just started A Constellation of Vital Phenomena and it's really good but also set in Chechnya and perhaps doesn't suit my mood at the beginning of summer.

Henry
01-06-2016, 08:11 AM
Tomorrow I will be starting Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy. Looking forward to it.

It's difficult, so my advice is to persevere...

Ian
01-06-2016, 04:58 PM
My only difficulty so far, and it was the same with The Road, is understanding McCarthyism grammatical peculiarities. Doesn't take long to settle in but I don't get the point.

Henry
05-06-2016, 10:51 PM
A Short History of Nearly Everything by Bill Bryson

I often read a lighter book while tackling something heavy to give me a break when I feel like it. This was the one I used during Les Miserables. Travel writer Bill Bryson runs through the major science subjects (including physics, cosmology, evolution, geology and so forth) giving a brief run-through of their histories and of their major discoveries. It's all a bit facile with no real depth - he declines to say anything about quantum physics on the ground that it would get too complicated for example. So while I didn't really learn much, it was an entertaining and well-written jaunt, and certainly would make a good introductory book for someone starting to read some popular science.

Magic
08-06-2016, 09:16 PM
Found a glorious place to read my book today on the way home. It was utterly deserted and so peaceful. Always enhances my reading if I'm:

a) outside
b) in peace
c) with a great view

http://s33.postimg.org/7stn9yg27/2016_06_08_17_58_07.jpg

Spammer
09-06-2016, 11:37 AM
The Optimistic Child, by Martin Seligman

He basically outlines how to bring up your kid in such a way that they are much less likely to become severely depressed. All very cognitive, simple and practical. Very well researched too and written in an easy style.

Making Movies by Sydney Lumet

Only just started this but it's a lovely little book by the bloke that did 12 Angry Men and Network.

Magic
09-06-2016, 11:47 AM
Why did you read TOC?

It's very activity based, I stopped reading it as it didn't really apply to under 5s.

Spammer
14-06-2016, 10:32 AM
Just general curiosity. I want to be a children's counsellor eventually.

I don't get what you mean about under 5s. How doesn't it apply?

Magic
14-06-2016, 11:56 AM
Just general curiosity. I want to be a children's counsellor eventually.

I don't get what you mean about under 5s. How doesn't it apply?

The activities in it.

Spammer
14-06-2016, 12:19 PM
Oh aye, they're focused more on teenagers aren't they. I guess the principles still apply in how you talk to her and stuff though? :sorry: I thought some of the examples were really good, like dealing with when kids are putting themselves down or how to make any criticism local and specific rather than in general. His criticisms of the self-esteem movement was really interesting too.

Magic
14-06-2016, 12:23 PM
Not really, it's more for when a child develops self-awareness, fully understands consequences, develops a small bit of inhibition, critical thinking and empathy.

At the moment it's just Naive, Selfish and Fair.

Spammer
14-06-2016, 12:32 PM
I mean it's still relevant in terms of how you talk to her and stuff :p

Spoonsky
14-06-2016, 05:45 PM
Making Movies by Sydney Lumet

Only just started this but it's a lovely little book by the bloke that did 12 Angry Men and Network.

That's funny, my dad's just bought that the other week.

Cord
14-06-2016, 06:09 PM
I had a go at Thomas Pynchon's Gravity's Rainbow.

It wasn't much of a go really, as I barely understood a thing. I persevered through the narrative switching about twenty times between a horde of characters with comedy names, got through the frequent discussion of penises (quite enjoyed those, actually) and even managed to keep going past the scene where some deeply stereotyped black chaps come across a fella bent over the bog, decide to bum him, only for him to escape down the u-bend with no real explanation and then spend the next six or seven pages describing the various turds he finds while he's down there.

Considering I gave it another 50 pages or so after that (and I'm still about 10% of the way through), I feel I can say I gave it a good go and admit I'm not smart or, rather unexpectedly, pervert enough for it.

Definitely a new leader for the hardest to read book I've ever attempted.

Spammer
14-06-2016, 07:51 PM
That's funny, my dad's just bought that the other week.

:lol:

You're right, that is funny!

Magic
14-06-2016, 07:52 PM
:D

Needs moar Hammer trolling.

niko_cee
14-06-2016, 08:03 PM
I had a go at Thomas Pynchon's Gravity's Rainbow.

It wasn't much of a go really, as I barely understood a thing. I persevered through the narrative switching about twenty times between a horde of characters with comedy names, got through the frequent discussion of penises (quite enjoyed those, actually) and even managed to keep going past the scene where some deeply stereotyped black chaps come across a fella bent over the bog, decide to bum him, only for him to escape down the u-bend with no real explanation and then spend the next six or seven pages describing the various turds he finds while he's down there.

Considering I gave it another 50 pages or so after that (and I'm still about 10% of the way through), I feel I can say I gave it a good go and admit I'm not smart or, rather unexpectedly, pervert enough for it.

Definitely a new leader for the hardest to read book I've ever attempted.

:D

I don't think I made it that far past the shit bit.

Pretty good synopsis.

Baz
14-06-2016, 08:47 PM
I had a go at Thomas Pynchon's Gravity's Rainbow.

It wasn't much of a go really, as I barely understood a thing. I persevered through the narrative switching about twenty times between a horde of characters with comedy names, got through the frequent discussion of penises (quite enjoyed those, actually) and even managed to keep going past the scene where some deeply stereotyped black chaps come across a fella bent over the bog, decide to bum him, only for him to escape down the u-bend with no real explanation and then spend the next six or seven pages describing the various turds he finds while he's down there.

Considering I gave it another 50 pages or so after that (and I'm still about 10% of the way through), I feel I can say I gave it a good go and admit I'm not smart or, rather unexpectedly, pervert enough for it.

Definitely a new leader for the hardest to read book I've ever attempted.Sounds ace. :D I only read while sunbathing; and I'm not so sure if it would be a good honeymoon read.

Spoonsky
14-06-2016, 09:43 PM
:lol:

You're right, that is funny!

I'll need some of your mong therapy if you keep up with that.

Henry
20-06-2016, 07:37 PM
The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man by Robert M Price

Next up another one searching for the historical Jesus and the origins of Christianity. Robert M Price is a prominent advocate of the Christ-myth theory, holding that there never was a historical Jesus and that he is entirely a literary and mythological creation.
Here he deconstructs the New Testament stories, stripping away the layers of embellishment, plagiarism and sectarianism. It's an impressive feat, ending with the conclusion that none of the material is historical, and that if there is a historical figure at the root, nothing about him has been preserved.
I'm not sure I'm entirely convinced - some of Price's conclusions arrived at using his "criteria of dissmilarity" don't seem to follow - just because the gospel writers use texts that exist elsewhere or because the beliefs of proto-Christians overlap with those of cynics, stoics and so forth, don't seem to me to preclude them being historical in essence. That said, some of his arguments concerning for example, the nativity and the resurrection entirely debunk orthodox doctrines and provide a fascinating explanation for how and why they came into being in the decades following the origins of Christianity.
Overall Price has convinced me that this is an intriguing possibility, and I've learned a great deal about the whole area which I hope to continue with.

Dark Soldier
14-07-2016, 07:35 PM
King's Bill Hodges trilogy (Mr. Mercedes, Finders Keepers, End of Watch) quickly managed to go from fairly interesting to downright insultingly bad. The first has a solid premise and flows along nicely before his usual shitty rushed ending. The second is rather dull, with no real concern for any fucker in it, but I managed to get to the end. The third is just hideous, no twists, surprises, everything is known, and the premise sounds like another book entirely which he's just banged Bill Hodges in because he couldn't think of fuck all else to finish the trilogy with. Its laughably bad, give it a go. Feels like a teenage English college assignment kinda work.

So hit and miss in recent years, probably due to age and boredom. 11/22/63 is superb though, to be fair. Still has a face like a surgically treated burns victim, the cunt.

GS
14-07-2016, 08:07 PM
I've only read a handful of King, but they're the sort of book I turn to when I want something that doesn't require a huge deal of engagement.

Dark Soldier
14-07-2016, 08:31 PM
Yeah I use his books for similar, came off the biography of Chris Morris into the third installment, but the writing is so, so bad.

Ian
14-07-2016, 09:07 PM
King was always very hit or miss, I find. I re-read The Dark Tower series a year or two ago, though, and still fucking loved it. Curious to see Elba as Roland.


Just finished the second Malazan book (Deadhouse Gates).

A really, really good book. His style of writing, i.e. drip-feeding you what you need to know, is quite captivating at times. It means he can do a number of plot twists without it seeming forced, and also gets you really interested in the lore. He's also great at describing battles and making them appear unique. Slightly related to that is his ability to create harrowing atmospheres; characters really do go through shit and you feel for them.

Two characters got to me in particular:

Icarium and Mappo. Fucking hell. I hope we get to see them again - I'm sure they'll come up at some point - but their story was so sad.

I've read.... four of them I think. The amazing thing is that he keeps chopping and changing characters (the most recent I've read in particular) and yet he keeps it all tied together. It's a seriously good series of books.

I'm still chugging through Blood Meridian but it's so boring I'm finding myself reading other stuff during my commute so it's taking me an age to get through it.

Jimmy Floyd
28-07-2016, 01:45 PM
The Great Gatsby is the most overrated novel of all time. I think. Read both that and Tender Is The Night a few months back and the latter shat on it.

Mazuuurk
28-07-2016, 02:38 PM
Ah, cool that you all enjoy the Malazan books so much, that makes me want to read them.

I've been looking for something to read while waiting for Doors of Stone by Rothfuss (taking aaaages) and Winds of Winter by Martin (also aaaages), both of which have made me swear to never start a series of books that isn't already concluded ever again (but I will).

Ian
28-07-2016, 03:40 PM
Blood Meridian is astonishingly dull. Can't remember when I was last so pleased to have finished a book.

GS
28-07-2016, 08:29 PM
The Great Gatsby was rubbish, but then I did read it at school. I doubt the passage of time or the absence of pressure to ANALYSE it would make it better, however. The 'roaring twenties' is just a very dull era, although one can reconcile oneself to it knowing that all these rich people end up bankrupt by the end of it.

Adamski
01-08-2016, 07:12 AM
Has anyone read the new Harry Potter book? I'm halfway through at the moment and it's actually really enjoyable.

Boydy
01-08-2016, 08:55 AM
No I'm an adult.

Spammer
01-08-2016, 08:57 AM
Has anyone read the new Harry Potter book? I'm halfway through at the moment and it's actually really enjoyable.

Bought it for my sister for her birthday and it only arrived yesterday. I flicked through it before giving it to her but didn't look at it properly. Will probably check it out at some point, or just go to see the play.

Adamski
01-08-2016, 10:20 AM
No I'm an adult.

Maybe in the literal sense :D

Adamski
01-08-2016, 10:21 AM
Bought it for my sister for her birthday and it only arrived yesterday. I flicked through it before giving it to her but didn't look at it properly. Will probably check it out at some point, or just go to see the play.

I think I read that the play is fully booked for months, definitely would like to go and see it. It's gotten some great reviews.

Mazuuurk
01-08-2016, 01:39 PM
Is the new Harry Potter book, which is a play, actually readable as a book - since it is a play? Most plays I've read, always for some literary assignment in class were quite dull/weird to read. Admittedly, they were always either Shakespeare or Becket / Ionesco / Some other abstract fucker.


Also, is the new Harry Potter book that is in fact a play actually about Harry Potter himself, or some random Troll a gazillion years ago that nobody cares about?

Adamski
01-08-2016, 02:34 PM
No, it's not readable that's why I'm halfway through in a matter of hours.

and no, it's called Harry Potter & the cursed child but it's not about Harry Potter.

Mazuuurk
01-08-2016, 02:37 PM
Well that's a great title then.

Magic
01-08-2016, 02:40 PM
Started reading that Irish history book, it's actually very good and non-biased, though I'm sure the extremists could tell me it's loyalist/unionist shite.

Boydy
01-08-2016, 03:11 PM
What is it?

Magic
01-08-2016, 03:21 PM
Loyal to the Core? Orangeism and Britishness in Northern Ireland

Spammer
01-08-2016, 03:29 PM
How can you tell that it's unbiased?

Magic
01-08-2016, 03:36 PM
I'm just joking.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0333654331/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'm only at the mid-14th century. But the way it's written it's argued so far that Ireland was crying out for stability, be that Ard Ri, the English via MacMurrough/Strongbow alliance, or Edward the Bruce and the Irish Kings.

It wouldn't have argued in favour of Henry the II if it was biased surely, or in favour of the Scots/Irish alliance.

Boydy
01-08-2016, 05:06 PM
Wait, what one are you reading?

There's not really such a thing as an 'unbiased' history book anyway.

Magic
01-08-2016, 05:29 PM
The one I linked to.

Boydy
01-08-2016, 05:58 PM
Oh right. Never heard of Mike Cronin. That other one you mentioned actually looks good. Two of the authors of it (McAuley and Tonge) are big dogs on NI.

Bartholomert
01-08-2016, 07:19 PM
Reading Absalom Absalom by Faulkner because I'm a sophisticated intellectual.

Shit is dense but delicious.

Ian
01-08-2016, 08:32 PM
I'm starting The Outsider, a sort-of-but-not-really autobiography thing by Frederick Forsyth.

It seems to be off to an interesting start but I might just be glad it's not Blood Meridian.

Magic
25-08-2016, 08:03 PM
Is losing a book you are half way through possibly the worst feeling in the world? :cry:

Lewis
25-08-2016, 11:51 PM
Was it The Big Book of Divorce Metaphors?

Spoonsky
26-08-2016, 12:00 AM
lol

Are you still knee-deep in the Balkan mud, Magic?

I'm reading The Savage Detectives by Roberto Bolano. It might just be that I'm not doing anything else with my life, but I'm tearing through it.

Magic
26-08-2016, 06:35 AM
Irish history now. I think I left it on my car roof in an orange part of Glasgow and drove off lol.

Ian
31-08-2016, 06:01 PM
I'm reading The Passage by Justin Cronin. It's excellent. It took me about forty years to get through less than 400 pages of Blood Meridian and I've done about 300 of this (it's 900 or so in total) since the weekend.

Has a bit of the Stephen Kings about it (I've seen comparisons to The Stand but it's so long since I've read that I'm not sure whether those are accurate) and some parts are almost like World War Z as well. Loving it.

GS
03-09-2016, 06:25 PM
Gents,

I'll probably have asked before, but I'm looking for another 'epic / high fantasy' series to get into. I've re-read ASOIAF over the summer, but I need a proper series to get into over the next few months.

Any suggestions? I wouldn't be interested in anything with a sci-fi element, if that's of any help.

Spoonsky
03-09-2016, 06:39 PM
The Bible.

GS
03-09-2016, 06:47 PM
How does it compare to the Book of Mormon?

Magic
03-09-2016, 07:01 PM
Oh shit.

Ian
03-09-2016, 07:21 PM
Gents,

I'll probably have asked before, but I'm looking for another 'epic / high fantasy' series to get into. I've re-read ASOIAF over the summer, but I need a proper series to get into over the next few months.

Any suggestions? I wouldn't be interested in anything with a sci-fi element, if that's of any help.

Malazan.

Magic
03-09-2016, 09:26 PM
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26233572-i-see-you

Bought that so I could get free delivery on my self-help book. Seems to get pretty good reviews and will give me a break from history/serious bookage.

GS
03-09-2016, 10:43 PM
Malazan.

What's the background / premise and number of novels in the series?

Ian
03-09-2016, 11:17 PM
Ten books, of which I've read four (and as I've harped on about before, it's actually fucking finished unlike ASOIAF.) Wikipedia has it as "epic fantasy" and certainly it's aimed at the same target audience as the likes of ASOIAF are. The premise is a touch more difficult to pin down because from book to book he'll change a large number of the characters from book to book and he doesn't always tie the story of an individual novel to the existing, overarching narrative until later in the book. Which makes it sound like he's jumping about and it all feels disjointed and haphazard but it's not, he does a brilliant job.

I suppose the short version would be that the Malazan Empire is very large and powerful but is face threats on multiple fronts. Some on a typical, fantasy-esque potential-end-of-the-world type scale, some just the threat of it collapsing in on itself, one story strand focuses in a revolution of sorts taking place elsewhere. One big difference is that as fantasy stuff goes Malazan is more overtly magical. It's just people running about lobbing lightning bolts at each other but it is there and it's very different to ASOIAF on that front.

From what I've read I personally prefer them. It has loads of characters and a lot of them are excellent, it has a lot of story threads but even early on you feel like there's an actual purpose to them and he knows where he's going.

I feel like I've waffled a bit here and probably not sold them very well but I'm sure there have been four or five of us on here now who've read at least some of them and nobody's given them a poor review that I can recall.

GS
03-09-2016, 11:29 PM
How's the first novel stack up? If it's difficult to get into, I suspect I'd struggle to maintain enough interest to get past the first one.

Also, what POV is it written in?

Ian
04-09-2016, 12:13 AM
He doesn't spend too long setting stuff up in the first one. He sets up what he needs to and then fairly quickly gets the story rolling with the initial core of characters.

And it's written third person. It does generally stick to a character or group of characters for the course of a given chapter but you're not getting into their heads all the time the way you do in ASOIAF. Some characters you get it more than others, other characters you just get more stuff revealed through their conversations.

Although they're quite complex in places I don't think them to be difficult reading at all. There's a lot going on but Erikson knows what he's doing and it hasn't threatened to become an unwieldy mess from what I've read.

Spoonsky
04-09-2016, 01:29 AM
How does it compare to the Book of Mormon?

Originals are always better than the remake.

mugbull
04-09-2016, 03:08 AM
Keep at it babes, I wanna see the real knockout punch

igor_balis
08-09-2016, 11:12 PM
Allan Moore gave a very positive review of a book written by my ex-lodger in the New York Times. Deffo gonna milk that minor vicarious achievement.

leedsrevolution
09-09-2016, 06:04 AM
I'm on the third instalment of the Clifton Chronicles, quite a nice read without been amazing. Anyone else reading them?

Spammer
09-09-2016, 08:24 AM
Beyond Freedom and Dignity - BF Skinner

Proper WTF territory, this. He basically espouses the kind of society set out in 1984. There's some really jarring phrases in there too, like 'we work on the assumption that people's behaviour often stems from their motivations, intentions and desires.' He says it as though he thinks differently, but he hasn't yet explained what he does believe. From what I know about him, it'll be something related to us basically being the sum of all our conditioning and fuck all else. So I imagine he's going to espouse the kind of conditioning by which everyone can be controlled completely.

He's pretty serious about it too. He regards society as a machine and laments the fact that we can change gear in a car and be very precise in the adaptations we can make to a car, but can a government do that with people's behaviour? No. Our social policies are very inefficient, and he wants society to be controlled in such a way, I think.

Edit: I think it's largely because he's a behaviourist, he thinks we're all just forms of genetics and conditioning and that we have no freedom anyway, that he justifies this kind of stuff. It's an interesting read so far.

GS
20-09-2016, 06:31 PM
I picked up a Hemingway collection for about £9 earlier in the year, and have now read seven of the eight books therein. On balance, I'd say he's overrated. For Whom the Bell Tolls and A Moveable Feast are probably the two strongest, the latter especially being a surprise in that I wasn't expecting it to be overly strong. It's similar to Orwell's "Down and Out" in that sense, which I also enjoyed a lot more than it's more well-known counterparts Homage to Catalonia and Road to Wigan Pier (the latter being tedious).

The Old Man and the Sea is the novel(la) he won the Nobel Prize for, and I just can't see it. It's a nice fable, sure, but it's nothing special. A Farewell to Arms is also not strong, and you can basically boil it down to "war, love, it rains, everyone's miserable". The Sun Also Rises, in my post-reading research, is described as a "masterpiece". I don't see it in the slightest, but perhaps I'm being unfair. Bull-fighting in Spain between the wars should be an interesting backdrop, but most of the characters (including the main love interest) are contemptible so if they'd wound up being gored you'd barely have cared.

The Snows of Kilimanjaro had some good stories, but broadly speaking wasn't great. The Green Hills of Africa is also a bit tedious in its recounting of his time engaged in big-game hunting, and not just because of the really quite obvious racism which depicts the "natives" in your standard fashion.

Overall, there's a sense he just thinks he's a bit great and has bought into the "Ernest Hemingway" persona a bit too much. Orwell, writing at the same time, has the better novels (1984 and Animal Farm), and a comparable, marginally better, memoir in "Down and Out". Then again, the rest of his fiction is a bit shit but his piercing insight on the political scene wins him the day.

I might read the rest of Hemingway's work at some stage in the future. The book I haven't started is "Death in the Afternoon", again about bull-fighting but I'm not sure I have the patience to wade through it right now. Perhaps another time.

Boydy
20-09-2016, 07:31 PM
I've only read For Whom the Bell Tolls and The Sun Also Rises but I much preferred the latter. For Whom the Bell Tolls was too long and boring for me. It was a relief to finish it.

I'm currently reading last year's Booker Prize winner, A Brief History of Seven Killings by Marlon James. It's based around the assassination attempt on Bob Marley in 1976 and takes in a load of Jamaican and regional politics. I'm struggling to get into it. There are a lot of different narrators and a lot of the book is written in the Jamaican dialect. I'm trying to stick with it though as it's meant to be worth it.

Spoonsky
20-09-2016, 07:46 PM
I've been reading a lot recently.

The Savage Detectives by Roberto Bolano was long, strange and brilliant. Not an easy nor pleasant read but it definitely paid off in the end. To Each His Own by Leonardo Sciascia is a short novel about a crime in Sicily, it was enjoyable but didn't make too much of an impression. Snow Country is by a Japanese guy who won the Nobel Prize but I didn't really get it, there were scenes I liked but as a whole it went over my head. Wonder Boys by Michael Chabon was great, very entertaining, the prose was really fine.

Pepe
20-09-2016, 07:54 PM
Bolaño. :cool:

Disco
24-09-2016, 12:57 PM
Yeah Mahow, how far in are you?

Sir Andy Mahowry
24-09-2016, 01:01 PM
Currently on the second book, about 10 or so chapters in.

Took a long break after the first so I've forgotten loads which isn't handy.

Liking the second a lot more than the first thus far.

Disco
24-09-2016, 01:16 PM
Just ten more books to go! It does take a little while to get going (and there are some bits in later books that are a bit of a slog) but it really is worth it.

Ian
24-09-2016, 02:28 PM
Twelve books to go, no?

I can't remember at what point it is in the series that it becomes a bit more of a slog. Was it two or three books where it took a noticeable dip before Sanderson saved the day by remembering that really it's only Rand, Mat and Perrin we really care about?

nsd
25-09-2016, 11:24 AM
Twelve books to go, no?

I can't remember at what point it is in the series that it becomes a bit more of a slog. Was it two or three books where it took a noticeable dip before Sanderson saved the day by remembering that really it's only Rand, Mat and Perrin we really care about?

I think it was around books 7-10 that were the slowest, with 10 really peaking with the side-plot fuckery that nobody cares about. There's an argument for 9 being half decent because of what happens and the implications of it. But then after those it's on to 11, which is one of the best of the lot.

Disco
25-09-2016, 11:49 AM
There comes a point where it feels like his plan for each book was to cut the remaining plot in half and filling the rest of the it with waffle but the actually interesting bits were still good enough to keep my interest. It made the first Sanderson book feel like such a refreshing change of pace.

Ian
25-09-2016, 01:17 PM
He got too immersed in the mad web of side-stories and minor characters and also in building up the detail of the world he'd created.