Mourinho watch

[QE Harold Flair]

Another amazing first from me, Harold. I smell a victory coming.

http://oi57.tinypic.com/286viab.jpg

[Yevrah]

He's in the shit and as Tobes said, it's going to be hard for him to turn it round from here.

[QE Harold Flair]

I predicted this and now with this interview he's clearly cracking up. :)

[niko_cee]

Villa at home in a few weeks. 4-4-Tim rocking up and cleaning house would just about do it I think.

[Giggles]

Like Bodgers, one good result and it's all forgotten. It only took him a home 3-2 against Aston bloody Villa to make him the second coming again.

But, CRISIS etc.

[Yevrah]

That's Liverpool though. Very different expectations.

[Jeet]

Liverpool game will be key.

[Danny]

Clutching a little bit there. That was almost two years ago.

[Gray Fox]

To be fair, there are very few Liverpool fans still in his corner. We're not fooled this time. Note how 1 game won turns him into the cocky grinning prick again.

As for José, he at least gets the year surely? You don't go from winning the league to completely incompetent.

[Jeet]

Specialist in 3rd season failure

[John]

I predicted this and now with this interview he's clearly cracking up. :)

You didn't predict it. That thread is two years old and he's won the league in the interim. If I say I think Southampton will win the league next season, I can't claim to have predicted it if they win one two years from now.

[Lewis]

Clutching a little bit there. That was almost two years ago.

And he won a title in the meantime.

[Toby]

Like Bodgers, one good result and it's all forgotten. It only took him a home 3-2 against Aston bloody Villa to make him the second coming again.

But, CRISIS etc.

They had a good result and promptly went on to not winning the next three, conceding seven in the process. It's not turning around over night, the confidence is so low that it'll take a sustained run before they really start believing in themselves again.


Clutching a little bit there. That was almost two years ago.

With a title win in between, as if it wasn't desperate enough already.

[Max Power]

Clutching a little bit there. That was almost two years ago.
And they won the league in between. E-victory indeed.

He's defintely on the brink though. Don't think the big cheeses at the club can tolerate all the extraenous nonsense and scapegoating when you're not winning football matches.

[QE Harold Flair]

You didn't predict it. That thread is two years old and he's won the league in the interim. If I say I think Southampton will win the league next season, I can't claim to have predicted it if they win one two years from now.

Yes, exactly. I could see this coming - I'm something of a soothsayer. Nobody is stopping you from making such a prediction. I doubt it will come to fruition as my premonition has. I said I would be keeping a firm eye on things and I have done exactly that. It's probably why he's cracking up, actually.

[ScousePig]

You didn't predict it. That thread is two years old and he's won the league in the interim. If I say I think Southampton will win the league next season, I can't claim to have predicted it if they win one two years from now.

I thought someone would bite, didn't think it would be you.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He's got plenty left in him but he has to suck it up and show that he can be adaptable. If shit players are shit, replace them with young, hungry ones even if they don't have the pedigree behind them. He never wants to do this.

Loftus-Cheek, for example, should be an automatic pick for the next three months. There's nothing to lose.

[Raoul Duke]

Absolutely ridiculous to even mention sacking him. Write the season off, play a bunch of young players and see what happens. Give him a transfer window to make some short-term alterations. Bring Drogba and Lampard back. And Joe Cole.

Or just keep giving Falcao a billion quid a week to fall over and not score.

[Spoonsky]

That thread is two years old and he's won the league in the interim.


And he won a title in the meantime.


With a title win in between, as if it wasn't desperate enough already.


And they won the league in between. E-victory indeed.

In the space of two minutes. What's happening?!

[QE Harold Flair]

They're floundering.

[Angelsaint]

What is this shit? Give him the season
? This is not Arsenal! Win the next 8 - 10 games or Roman should show him the underneath of his yacht!

[Davgooner]

Saint's back.

[Mazuuurk]

The thing with Mourinho is a little though that I can't think who could do a better job than him for Chelsea.

Right now, maybe anyone, but over several years, I dunno.


Klopp, maybe.

[GS]

Problem with Mourinho is that he's never been successful after two years. He either leaves or sticks it out and turns to shit. His methods may simply not be conducive to medium-term success.

[Lewis]

We knew that. He's Brian Clough.

[Baz]

He's won the league since you posted the original thread, hasn't he?

[Jimmy Floyd]

We knew that. He's Brian Clough.

The comparisons have been made since day one and to be honest there are so many parallels. You could imagine him zinging Wenger on Yorkshire Television.

[Mazuuurk]

Who's Brian Clough and why is he similar to Mourinho? In what ways, I mean?

[Lewis]

The comparisons have been made since day one and to be honest there are so many parallels. You could imagine him zinging Wenger on Yorkshire Television.

His drinking phase should be fun.

[The Merse]

Who's Brian Clough and why is he similar to Mourinho? In what ways, I mean?

I suggest starting by watching the award winning Michael Sheen vehicle 'The Damned United'.

It's a bit light on the facts... But, you'll get the gist.

[QE Harold Flair]

Who's Brian Clough and why is he similar to Mourinho? In what ways, I mean?

He isn't. Clough actually had charisma, where as Mourinho is an act.

Oh and Clough did things with shit teams.

[Yevrah]

If you've seen the film, the comparisons with Clough are ridiculous.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He isn't. Clough actually had charisma, where as Mourinho is an act.

Oh and Clough did things with shit teams.

If he's an act, how's he managed to come from nowhere (not even a playing career of any sort) to manage the world's biggest clubs and win multiple trophies with each?

[Yevrah]

The only comparison that's really needed is Mourinho against himself.

I'm not sure what it is, but he's not been half the manager he was before over the last 4 years.

[QE Harold Flair]

His persona is an act. The comedy villain. I think you've even alluded to it yourself. Let's not forget that Clough didn't have any warchests and actually played good football, too. The only similarity is the arrogance and youth.

[Yevrah]

There's no doubt about it though, between 2004 and 2010 he was comfortably the best manager in the world, and at that point it looked as though he'd go on to sweep all before him aside.

It's not happening though, that much is clear.

[Lewis]

The basic comparison is that their methods (largely dependent on being a twat) have a shelf life of about three years. Clough did shit all during the eighties because he pissed Peter Taylor off and kept pissing about with the squad.

[QE Harold Flair]

It's already been said but he is incapable of building anything. I don't think he would pull up any trees at a team which wasn't swimming in money.

[Lewis]

Except for that time he won the European Cup with Porto.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There's no doubt about it though, between 2004 and 2010 he was comfortably the best manager in the world, and at that point it looked as though he'd go on to sweep all before him aside.

It's not happening though, that much is clear.

He bossed the 'shit out the middle of the park and counter attack' era (ushered in by the dual SHOCKS of 2004, his Porto side and Greece winning the big pots).

Then the pass completion mate stuff took over and his methods, whilst still getting their share of success (like titles at Real Madrid and now Chelsea again) are out of vogue. That's what happens in sport, other stuff comes along and it won't be long before 'Pep' is looking outdated and past his best because something else has kicked in.

[Giggles]

This riled up defensive Floyd is so much better than the indifferent twat we normally get. Who knew the buttons would be in such an obvious place in the end?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Which are the 'defensive' posts in this thread? (other than this one)

You and John Arne have been gagging for a seethe out of me all day, bless your little regional hearts.

[QE Harold Flair]

Except for that time he won the European Cup with Porto.

Where they played Monaco in the final, wasn't it? They shouldn't have even been in the final. It was a shit (and freak) year. It happens.

[Yevrah]

Where they played Monaco in the final, wasn't it? They shouldn't have even been in the final. It was a shit (and freak) year. It happens.

Hasn't happened to Wenger, in 19 years, so it can't be all that common...

[Jimmy Floyd]

Arsenal shouldn't have been in the final in 2006. They just beat all those teams in those football matches in the given competition and so were in the final. But they shouldn't have been in the final.

[elth]

brb off to start an Every Manager in the World Watch fred.

[QE Harold Flair]

Hasn't happened to Wenger, in 19 years, so it can't be all that common...

That's a fairly idiotic argument.

[Yevrah]

That's a fairly idiotic argument.

No more idiotic than the shit you're coming out with to defend a manager who (given how much he's paid) has been stealing a living for quite some time now.

But clearly, Arsenal are where they are because of others and nothing to do with failing to get their own house in order.

[ItalAussie]

It's one thing to make terrible predictions. But to start a thread just to show how terrible your own prediction was? Takes some chutzpah.

I like it.

[QE Harold Flair]

No more idiotic than the shit you're coming out with to defend a manager who (given how much he's paid) has been stealing a living for quite some time now.

But clearly, Arsenal are where they are because of others and nothing to do with failing to get their own house in order.

I've got the feeling that Wenger will be a lot more appreciated when whoever comes next is in place. Ourt own situation was complicated by the new stadium and the repayments. It's no coincidence that we were the invincibles just before the move. I think people forget very easily how hard it is to go the whole season unbeaten.

[Yevrah]

How was his prediction terrible?

[QE Harold Flair]

It's one thing to make terrible predictions. But to start a thread just to show how terrible your own prediction was? Takes some chutzpah.

I like it.

I saw it coming a full year and a half ago. I'm so ahead of everyone.

[Yevrah]

I've got the feeling that Wenger will be a lot more appreciated when whoever comes next is in place.

If you get the next appointment wrong, yeah, of course he will be.

If you get it right, not so much.

[Lewis]

It's like when Smiffy began predicting United's imminent downfall in about 2007 (possibly before then, pre-me members?) .

[QE Harold Flair]

That's quite different from predicting a seemingly midas-touched manager cracking up under pressure. I was there, doing just that.

[Lewis]

He CRACKED UP at Madrid, who sacked him because he didn't have the Midas touch. Plus he did win the title last season.

[QE Harold Flair]

Did he win the title last season?

[ItalAussie]

I'm curious as to how this situation could develop in a way that you would concede your prediction was wrong. Say he gets it all together, puts together a strong finish to the season and Chelsea winds up comfortably in the top four. Are you wrong then? I mean, apparently winning the title isn't enough, so I'm curious as to what it would be.

Or does it just get repeatedly backdated into some kind of eternal prediction that you'll hold onto until he eventually leaves?

[QE Harold Flair]

It's not about the winning, it's about him cracking up. I've warned him I have my eye on him - as I say, perhaps that's what's got to him.

[niko_cee]

It's like when Smiffy began predicting United's imminent downfall in about 2007 (possibly before then, pre-me members?) .

Harry Kewell was way ahead of that curve.

[Angelsaint]

He isn't. Clough actually had charisma, where as Mourinho is an act.

Oh and Clough did things with shit teams. IV think people don't understand how weak was that Porto. It was the weakest Porto of the last 20 years! At least in investment. Mourinho got them in 5th place!!



His persona is an act. The comedy villain.
This is media making not his. Basically media needed someone to make Wenger or pepe look good. Some lunatics say it is Nike usual way of working, sell betters if you are the good side.
Guess what? Both are/were Nike bound.
See pep not so good press after moving to bayern/Adidas.

[niko_cee]

If Mourinho is a genius based on winning the big pot with Porto, then the obvious comparison is Lord Benitez. His Liverpool side were far worse than Porto, and they didn't get the benefit of playing some numpties in the final. He hasn't spent the rest of his career lolling about in the money though, and he's obviously a nut. He'll probably out-do The special One at Real, which will be quite funny.

[Angelsaint]

You are kidding right? Comparing any Porto with Liverpool is insane, comparing that Porto with Liverpool should grant you a stay in the nearest psychiatric Institute.

Mourinho had 2 offers to get out of Porto. One from Liverpool and later one from Chelsea. Both impossible to resist. This just show the difference between clubs.

[niko_cee]

I was talking about the teams of players, not the overall historical standings of the clubs. It's the former that determines outcomes, sadly.

That Liverpool one was dreadful. Look at the XI they put out in the final. Kewell, Traore, it was upsetting that Igor fucking Biscan didn't get a game. It was a miracle in every regard they won it, and then went on a run of bizarre quasi-dominance in Europe.

[Angelsaint]

Didn't all Milan players careers went in straight downfall after that final? I thought I read it somewhere.

[Giggles]

Which are the 'defensive' posts in this thread? (other than this one)

You and John Arne have been gagging for a seethe out of me all day, bless your little regional hearts.

You've been scrambling ever since the Wenger/Pep/Mourinho/Enrique thread. Not to mention the fact that everyone already had the seethe box ticked with the 'but but Arsenal' stuff as the Southampton game was crumbling.

Don't get me wrong though, it's actually better. Shows you might be human after all.


.

[Pen]

They did win the Champions league two years after that with much of the same squad so saying that all of them went to shit after that final is an bit of an overstatement. Most of that 05 final lot also were in the winning side in 2003, so you could argue that Milan side was pretty srtong during that era throughout.

@Saint

[Angelsaint]

They did win the Champions league two years after that with much of the same squad so saying that all of them went to shit after that final is an bit of an overstatement. Most of that 05 final lot also were in the winning side in 2003, so you could argue that Milan side was pretty srtong during that era throughout.

@Saint
Good point.

[Angelsaint]

I just saw the interview and he is right. Rant or not, he is absolutely right like he was about Wenger.

[phonics]

I actually though that was Mourinho's most well argued interview since he's been back outside of the 'chelsea never get decisions' stuff. .

[Toby]

I touched on it in the other thread but his problem at the moment is that when he has had success he has done so with the absolute respect of his players. In his first run at Chelsea he could get away with the sort of treatment Matic has had, because other players would look at it with complete faith in him and probably expect that player to sort themselves out a bit. Now, he just risks alienating the player and a lot of the rest of them thinking he's being a dick. This seems to be largely what happened at Real Madrid.

The 'natural' core of the side is largely gone now that Lampard, Drogba and Cech have left. It'll take time to build up a new one and its not going to happen with the side in CRISIS. It's a team with confidence at an all time low and I think it has been a misstep by Mourinho to try to fix that by talking plainly about how crap the players are. I mean, he's completely right, but it seems too many of the current squad lack the mental strength to really step up and prove themselves in the face of that. That's what makes it really hard to see where the turnaround is going to come from.

They really need to go on a run of winning games from here to get that confidence back - they should be able to do that against Aston Villa, but you wouldn't even really back them for the following away games to Dinamo Kiev and West Ham on recent form.

[Angelsaint]

In Mourinho defense, matic is crap. Good he acknowledged that.

[Reg]

I wouldn't be too pleased if my boss was taking no responsibility whatsoever when things are going wrong time and time again.


"Physically there’s no problem. Tactically it’s the same. Clearly it’s an attitude perspective of some individuals. And when you have individuals with that unstable attitude in terms of motivation, desire and commitment, you will pay."

So he's said that the conditioning is the same, tactical choices are the same (both his responsibility). But of course they're not what needs improving, and of course they should work two seasons in a row no matter what the circumstances...

The 'motivation' thing is possibly a motivation tactic in itself. But it's not working. And no doubt he'll blame the players again.

[Toby]

He's right though, the biggest problem is that almost none of the players are performing to their ability, and none of them are stepping up and leading the team when things go wrong. He's definitely misjudged in declaring that publicly, but he's absolutely right that the attitude and motivation is lacking.

Of course another factor in that, that can be placed more at his door, is that he stretched a thing squad about as far as it could go last year and then didn't really strengthen it over summer. So there probably is a case to be made that a lot of them are just genuinely knackered.


In Mourinho defense, matic is crap. Good he acknowledged that.

He was outstanding for the first half of last season - probably Chelsea's best player - but from about New Year onwards he's been rubbish. The worst part is that when he is rubbish, the whole team seems to be rubbish because his position is so important to the way they play.

[Jimmy Floyd]

You've been scrambling ever since the Wenger/Pep/Mourinho/Enrique thread. Not to mention the fact that everyone already had the seethe box ticked with the 'but but Arsenal' stuff as the Southampton game was crumbling.

Don't get me wrong though, it's actually better. Shows you might be human after all.


.

The Arsenal thing was a comment about even when we're total shite, we still beat Arsenal. If you read it as anything else you've probably got to go on a course or something.

[Reg]

But you've ignored/missed my point there, Toby.

He isn't doing his job if they're not motivated. It's partly up to the players themselves, of course, but he can't pretend it isn't part of his job.

If they're knackered, then he's made mistakes in pre season and during the season regarding training.

[Toby]

But you've ignored/missed my point there, Toby.

He isn't doing his job if they're not motivated. It's partly up to the players themselves, of course, but he can't pretend it isn't part of his job.

If they're knackered, then he's made mistakes in pre season and during the season regarding training.

I didn't miss it, I wasn't arguing. I said he was right about their attitudes being bad, but that it's the wrong thing for the manager to be saying (especially publicly).

And yes, if they're knackered it's the fault of the manager. That's exactly what I just said.

[Toby]

I would say though that there's only so much the manager can do to motivate players. There are a few in the Chelsea team who clearly have pretensions of being considered int he elite class of players, but have won nothing to actually demonstrate that ability. Hazard is the stand out but he's not really alone. They should be motivated simply by a desire to win, but half of them don't look that bothered. There does come a point where rather than holding their hand through a tough run, the manager does just have to question their desire to win, and for some of them that time has probably come. The problem now is that it's just destroyed their confidence and they're not reacting with the 'have to prove him wrong' streak that he presumably hoped for, largely because they're just not actually good enough.

[Yevrah]

Assuming he does get sacked, where does he go next?

[Waffdon]

Germany.

[Ian]

If there's any chance of the job coming up then Portugal while they've still got Ronaldo.

[Lewis]

Portugal or PSG. The Oberkommando der Bayern wouldn't want him causing a scene, and he's too big for Italy.

[Adamski]

Can we actually see him being sacked? He's right, there's no one better for Chelsea than him.

[Yevrah]

I was thinking Portugal as there's no point doing that once Ronaldo is past it.

But after that and PSG, that's it, isn't it?

[Reg]

PSG would be a very Mourinho move.

Someone German other than Bayern would be a lot more interesting.

[Yevrah]

Can we actually see him being sacked?

Given we've all seen him be sacked, yes, yes I can.

[Yevrah]

I suppose there's Man City as well.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He's not going to get sacked.

[Adamski]

Reg he won't go anywhere without shitloads of money backing him up. Taking on Bayerns dominance with a plucky underdog isn't exactly his thing.

[Adamski]

Given we've all seen him be sacked, yes, yes I can.

And they spent 6 years regretting it and hurtling from random manager to random manager (albeit with a decent level of success).

Won't happen imo.

[Ian]

If the job became available when he was I could actually see the FA offering him the job and I reckon he'd probably take it. I know he's talked about wanting to leave international football until he's older and won't miss the day to day stuff as much but that might change if the offer was on the table.

EDIT: If they keep floundering he'll get sacked. They shouldn't but I can't see Abramovich thinking that far ahead.

[Reg]

That's why it would be interesting.

Whereas PSG would be incredibly boring and predictable.

I think he's more likely to quit in a fit of rage rather than be sacked.

[Lewis]

He'll be in line for a honking pay-off if he gets sacked, so there is no way he'll walk.

[Angelsaint]

Reg he won't go anywhere without shitloads of money backing him up. Taking on Bayerns dominance with a plucky underdog isn't exactly his thing.

Do you really believe in what you write or you just want to look cool?

[Jimmy Floyd]

I think he's done his grand tour bit. If he is sacked (he won't be), he might even take a few years out and then take the Portuguese national team. Or maybe even unfinished business at Benfica, who knows.

[Magic]

Mourinho is a class A boring cunt. He can fuck off and take his repulsive version of football to the continent.

[Ian]

(he won't be)

Is this because you think he'll turn things around quick enough or you think he won't get sacked because he doesn't appear to be kicking off internally?

[Davgooner]

He should fuck off to the MLS.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Is this because you think he'll turn things around quick enough or you think he won't get sacked because he doesn't appear to be kicking off internally?

A little of both but mainly because there isn't anyone better.

[Toby]

"There isn't anyone better" hasn't stopped Abramovich in the past, so it seems like wishful thinking to suggest Mourinho is safe without a significant turnaround in form.

[Yevrah]

It also doesn't hold if you continue to be as shit as you've been this season.

[Jimmy Floyd]

"There isn't anyone better" hasn't stopped Abramovich in the past, so it seems like wishful thinking to suggest Mourinho is safe without a significant turnaround in form.

As I've said I don't think the circumstances are at all the same this time. The club has moved on quite a lot from the 'Must win everything every year' era.

[Lewis]

How bad would it have to get (off and on the pitch) for him to be sacked then?

[Toby]

As I've said I don't think the circumstances are at all the same this time. The club has moved on quite a lot from the 'Must win everything every year' era.

That seems like a nice thought rather than anything backed up by what they've actually done/been doing. Roberto di Matteo would have lasted longer were it an era ushered in by the Champions League win.

Unless you're suggesting it's a collective cringe at the memory of hiring Rafa Benitez, in which case, yeah, maybe.

[Jimmy Floyd]

How bad would it have to get (off and on the pitch) for him to be sacked then?

If we are still 16th at Christmas then it gets tricky I suppose.

[niko_cee]

How bad would it have to get (off and on the pitch) for him to be sacked then?

4 points from 8 games bad.

[Adamski]

Do you really believe in what you write or you just want to look cool?

Both, really. Where have I went wrong?

[Mazuuurk]

I suggest starting by watching the award winning Michael Sheen vehicle 'The Damned United'.

It's a bit light on the facts... But, you'll get the gist.

I'm not writing a fucking dissertation on him here :D , I just wanted the short version

[Toby]

I'm not writing a fucking dissertation on him here :D , I just wanted the short version

The gist of it is that he won the old First Division (top flight) with Derby County, then did the same with Nottingham Forest as well as winning the European Cup two years in a row.

He also had a spell at Leeds before the Forest job, which would be a bit like Mourinho joining Arsenal as he had publicly criticised them a lot while at his previous clubs. That's the bit the Damned United covers - it's a good film and well worth seeing if you haven't.

[Jimmy Floyd]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqAZsoF-ghw

I've always liked that one as a summing up. There are many out there though.

That Trevor Francis section is eerily similar to Mourinho. Then he launches into a scathing criticism of MOTD's editorial values.

[Mazuuurk]

Cheers Tobes :thbup:

[Ian]

The gist of it is that he won the old First Division (top flight) with Derby County, then did the same with Nottingham Forest as well as winning the European Cup two years in a row.

He also had a spell at Leeds before the Forest job, which would be a bit like Mourinho joining Arsenal as he had publicly criticised them a lot while at his previous clubs. That's the bit the Damned United covers - it's a good film and well worth seeing if you haven't.

With Forest the European Cup came two years after promotion as well, didn't he? Wasn't it something daft like Division 2/promotion followed by winning Division 1 straight away and then European Cup the year after that?

[Giggles]

Clough was such a legend.

[niko_cee]

Come on over Jose. There's a new, more apt home for your paranoia.

[Magic]

Maz is the unfortunate foreigner that Sky has produced who knows nothing about British football apart from that it started on 1992 and that they are entitled to an all knowing opinion because they watch the scum every super Sunday.

[John]

Whereas you're the zero attention span twat who gets the histrionic 'HAHAHAHA' rubbish on the go if a game isn't well on its way to the expected result within about five minutes.

See also: Zim.

[Magic]

Zim; another fallen hero. RIP sweet prince.

[Yevrah]

The Damned United is great.

[niko_cee]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34752317

http://c.files.bbci.co.uk/15A13/production/_86559588_1joesesecondedit.png

I love the fact that he even referenced Wenger in that. The man's completely obsessed.

[phonics]

At least him and Wenger are agreeing with each other for once.

[Manc]

I presume Big John Terry was taking the half time team talk.

"When's the next couples night out..."

[Smiffy]

.....

[Angelsaint]

Pretty happy with Chelsea performance today. Results will soon show up. So as long we are on champions, all good in tha hood!

[Jeet]

Saint supports Chelsea?

[QE Harold Flair]

'we'? :happycry:

[Angelsaint]

It seems my ban made you guys forget my Chelsea and Mourinho love.

[QE Harold Flair]

I certainly remember the Mourinho love, but I only remember 'Brann Champion!'

[Luca]

I remember Saint as a Chelsea fan, if only because he's probably the only non-United-supporting Norwegian on the planet.

[Angelsaint]

Yes, there are many Norwegian supporters but also Liverpool. Arsenal is also a lot. West ham and spurs got also their share. City has a few but is increasing. The big surprise is that Leeds is still challenging Liverpool and ManU but decreasing rapidly.

[Luca]

The Oljefondet should have invested in United. Bonkers Scandi owners would be awesome.

[Angelsaint]

How the hell you know about the Oljefondet?

[Luca]

It's only the largest pension fund in the world.

[Angelsaint]

Not many know about it...which means you didn't answer the question.

[Luca]

I'm interested in the capital markets (I studied finance and economics in school), and it's a huge (~$800bn) player in the capital markets, so the name comes up from time to time.

[Toby]

I could have sworn Saint used to be a Liverpool fan who had put that on hold while Benitez was in charge.

[niko_cee]

Yeah, I very much recall him being a Liverpool fan, of sorts.

[Angelsaint]

I was when I was a kid but as you grow older you get wiser.
Must add that this Liverpool phase was way before TD which means you guys just got lucky on this.

[niko_cee]

Chelsea are reportedly considering the shock appointment of Juande Ramos if the club do sack Jose Mourinho, according to The Times.

Pleae please please please please.

[Jimmy Floyd]

:D

Hopefully they're just putting out crafty press releases to remind Toby and friends why sacking him isn't the answer. Either that or Abramovich has given each of his aides a different shit manager's name to see who is leaky.

[simon]

Staggeringly, I reckon Juande Ramos would top the appointment of Avram Grant.

[niko_cee]

What are Christian Gross and Jacques Santini up to these days?

[Toby]

Never fear, when Mourinho quits after relegation they can just hire Neil Warnock to bring them back up, thereby initiating the alternate reality timeline that could have begun in 1991.

[mugbull]

Chelsea would finish the season with more points if they got Juande Ramos than if they kept Mourinho, almost by definition. You can argue that Mourinho would be the more long-term option, but Mourinho destroys his teams in the long-term, so I'm not convinced by that one.

[phonics]

Don't know. I heard he once got 2 points from 8 games.

[simon]

Chelsea would finish the season with more points if they got Juande Ramos than if they kept Mourinho, almost by definition. You can argue that Mourinho would be the more long-term option, but Mourinho destroys his teams in the long-term, so I'm not convinced by that one.

:eyemouth:

[Pleb]

This news deserves a :drool:

[Yevrah]

The 'Mourinho destroys his teams long term' line is one of the most unsubstantiated lines going in all of football - he's never been anywhere long enough for us to know.

[mugbull]

He destroys his relationships with his players, that's very substantiated.

[Reg]

Not sure about that...

Left Porto and the players at the very least liked him; lots followed him.
Left Chelsea when they all loved him (players fawning over him in texts after he was gone) but Roman got bored.
Left Inter when they loved him and Materazzi was seen hugging him while crying.
Left Real and pissed off everyone - players, fans and media.
Came back to Chelsea and was adored by waiting fans and players.

[Shindig]

He left the first 3 on legitimate high notes, mind.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He usually gets into fights with people upstairs rather than players (which is why United will never touch him as control of the brand is the most important thing to them), although at Inter I think it was simply that the Madrid job came up.

[Yevrah]

He destroys his relationships with his players, that's very substantiated.

Is it, how?

[mugbull]

At Chelsea he's lost just about everybody. At Madrid, he lost Cristiano and Casillas. Makelele (and others) have talked publicly about how he never showed any appreciation for his players in his first Chelsea stint. I don't know about Inter, other than that Zlatan liked him.

Add that to his feuds with the boardroom and owners, I don't see how he can be considered one of the best managers. His tactics are fantastic (usually) but he angers everybody he's supposed to keep happy, and despite his "media acumen", or whatever you want to call it, that's unsustainable. The reason people like him so much is because he keeps his teams in the spotlight

[mugbull]

http://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2015/11/10/9703492/cristiano-ronaldo-chelsea-jose-mourinho-best-friends-forever

This is interesting though. Ronaldo seems to appreciate him now.

[niko_cee]

I see 'Pep' is going to clarify his future in the coming days/weeks.


Spanish newspaper Marca reported on Wednesday that Guardiola has already told Bayern he will leave the club.

The Madrid-based publication claims he believes both he and the club would benefit from a change of scenery because his intense work ethic can wear players down.

What the fuck is that second bit about? If he does leave Bayern at the end of the season, and they don't lol their way to the European Cup, will he have failed?

[John]

The 'Mourinho destroys his teams long term' line is one of the most unsubstantiated lines going in all of football - he's never been anywhere long enough for us to know.

I've always taken that line to mean that he operates a sort of scorched earth policy, though even that's only vaguely corroborated by Sir Rafa stinking Inter out after him.

[Jimmy Floyd]

After he left Chelsea we reached the Champions League final in the same season with Jabba the Hutt in charge.

[Toby]

I've always taken that line to mean that he operates a sort of scorched earth policy, though even that's only vaguely corroborated by Sir Rafa stinking Inter out after him.

The flipside being that Chelsea blundered through several seasons of being pretty crap but winning things through "The Ghost of Mourinho".

I don't think there's any questioning his brilliance pre-Madrid, but I think there's a fair question of how that term has affected both him and people's perceptions of him.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He's still got it. Just look at the way he effortlessly winds up Arsenal every fucking time, and some of our bigger game performances this season haven't been that bad. It's just a shitty run. If this was 1965 people would be batting eyelids, but it would just be seen as one of those things and on we would go.

[Toby]

It's not 1965 though. A "shitty run" for a side like Chelsea in modern football sees them dragging around in 5th-8th.

The Arsenal thing could just as much be a sign of him having lost it as still having it. He seems almost completely preoccupied with those sorts of personal mini-victories these days.

[Lewis]

The 'Phantom Manager' suggests that whilst his coaching and methods are great and sustainable, he himself has a definite use-by date. That could explain why Chelsea were at their best under Carlo Ancelotti who kept all of that intact whilst also being good enough to keep everybody happy. I reckon this what is going on at Leicester, with Nigel Dickhead gone and Claudio Ranieri getting by on charisma alone, and probably what United will require once 'LvG' has finally pissed everybody off trying to stabalise things (which he has if he's done nothing else). It might also explain United post-2008 when the defensive structures put in place by Carlos Queiroz held out and Ferguson kept the rest going.

[Reg]

The flipside being that Chelsea blundered through several seasons of being pretty crap but winning things through "The Ghost of Mourinho".
That's silly though isn't it. A past manager's influence isn't going to coach and motivate players on a daily basis three, 4 years later or whatever.


It's just a shitty run. If this was 1965 people would be batting eyelids, but it would just be seen as one of those things and on we would go.
Like Toby says, it's not 1965. 1965 didn't have the big four, or the big seven, etc... The big have become much bigger.

You do have a point though, and maybe if Mourinho is still there next season and is a success it would have a big influence on how football perceives sackings.

[GS]

I think the issue for Mourinho at this point is that you'd need to clear a good third to one half of the players out, which probably isn't achievable in one summer.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm trying it on FM. PSG are big enough mugs to take Costa off my hands, but the squad rebelled like tits when Fabregas was sold and I brought in Teddy Bishop. Ah well.

[Toby]

That's silly though isn't it. A past manager's influence isn't going to coach and motivate players on a daily basis three, 4 years later or whatever.

He put together what became the core of every Chelsea side from then until now, and instilled with them a very particular attitude and style of play that was clearly still there after he left.Other managers came in and a few failed to settle precisely because they tried to shake things up from the way Mourinho had done it. Three years and however many managers on you'd still look at Chelsea's team and see the hallmarks of Mourinho all through it.

[Reg]

I recall Ancelotti's team playing with a lot more freedom, scoring the best goals, and not playing on the counter. But you watched them more so maybe that's not accurate.

But in any case, would what you've described be considered that unusual? 'A particular attitude' will have been built by players like Terry's natural personalities and not solely due to Mourinho.

If somebody watched Swansea in 2010 then watched them for a second time four years later, there'd be differences, but they'd definitely be pretty similar.

I can't imagine a professional football team (or any team in any profession) getting by on someone who is not even there; it might have some effect for a few months, but years?

[Shindig]

So has Terry lost the clout to gel that squad together for the kids? Or is he missing being felt up by Eva?

[Toby]

When I said three years I meant from Mourinho leaving to Ancelotti joining. Turns out it was only half that but definitely felt a lot longer. He did successfully change things up a bit and get them playing a much freer game.

It's not uncommon for teams to look similar between different managers, especially if much of the players remain the same, but I don't think it's common to see anything on the level of Chelsea in the years after Mourinho left. The key players adored him and clearly bought in entirely to his footballing philosophies.

[Jimmy Floyd]

All Chelsea's success in the last decade can be put down to the spine of Cech/Terry/Lampard/Drogba (and Claude when he was there). All five of them tremendous players but also leaders that used to bring shitheads like Malouda along with them. We now have, what, half of one of them and shock horror it's gone down the pan.

[GS]

Drogba was a genuine force of nature, so losing him is probably the biggest blow. Terry has always been a cunt.

[Toby]

All Chelsea's success in the last decade can be put down to the spine of Cech/Terry/Lampard/Drogba (and Claude when he was there). All five of them tremendous players but also leaders that used to bring shitheads like Malouda along with them. We now have, what, half of one of them and shock horror it's gone down the pan.

It's literally just Terry left, and it's possible the others always acted as a sort of antidote to his obvious unpleasant side. I'm not sure which of the others bring any sort of winning mentality, let alone leadership ability.

[Manc]

He's gone.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Fucking idiots.

Welcome Juande.

[Angelsaint]

A dark day for football. I rest my case.