The yankee mass shootings thread

[SvN]

The prevalence of guns is surely largely responsible for the large number of people killed by the police. Every time they pull someone over, they're aware that the person could conceivably put a gun in their face out of nowhere, which means that they're constantly on edge. Any sudden movements and they've grabbed their gun and shot 5 bullets before they've even thought about it.

I remember watching a video about a year ago about a guy (black, obviously) who was at a petrol station when the police asked him for his license. He reached into his car to get it and the policeman fired about 5-7 shots at him out of nowhere, despite the guy shouting that he's just getting his license. I don't think the guy suffered serious injuries, but I don't think the police officer approached the situation with the intent to shoot the guy. He was just in fear for his own life and overreacted quite ridiculously.

Edit: Here it is:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXmVPxQGTsE

At least one shot fired while he had his hands in the air.

[Bartholomert]

I don't see how dealers verses recreational users affects those numbers? I'm open to an explanation though.

As for the rest, I'm going to have to see the numbers before I take your word on the details. I believe the first two points you made, but I'd like to see the precise wording on "committing the crime" as opposed to "number of police interactions". As well as the racial spread on crimes verses arrests, like the numbers above.

I'd really like to see racial disparity on actually committing the crime, as opposed to being charged for it, for a range of crimes. Like the figures above. Because that's where I'd suspect the real problem is. Those numbers above are undeniably a problem, whatever their cause happens to be.

I appreciate your open mindedness on both issues, I will make a more detailed post after work on the latter.

In general, police resources are not committed to arresting recreational users with small amounts of marijuana in their possession, instead it is directed at catching larger volume violent distributors, especially those also involved in gangs / organized crime. White and black people may use marijuana at comparable rates, but, due to whatever number of factors, AA's are more often within the 'targeted' violent distributor category. As a consequence, AA's are arrested at higher rates for possession.

[Bartholomert]

Another problem that seems to occur in the US system is that police get an easier run through the justice system when charges are brought. Police officers have built-in protections within the system, and the conviction rate is known to be particularly low even when that is taken into consideration.

To be honest, I think it should go the other way. If you are in a position of authority and you abuse that position, you should face harsher consequences. Not only have you committed a crime, but you've done it from a position of power which is required for society to function. Orderly society needs us to trust police to act appropriately, and eroding that trust has to be treated as a serious issue.

Then police officers would simply not do their job. See the "Ferguson Effect"; it's already happening.

[Bernanke]

To be honest, I think it should go the other way. If you are in a position of authority and you abuse that position, you should face harsher consequences. Not only have you committed a crime, but you've done it from a position of power which is required for society to function. Orderly society needs us to trust police to act appropriately, and eroding that trust has to be treated as a serious issue.

Agreed.

Pay them more, train them better, punish them more harshly.

[Bartholomert]

Agreed.

Pay them more, train them better, punish them more harshly.

With what money; America has $20 trilion in debt? You willing to divert funds from welfare?

[Bernanke]

With what money; America has $20 trilion in debt? You willing to divert funds from welfare?

Some of the money that bought the military equipment they stroll around in could be put to better use.

[Bartholomert]

Some of the money that bought the military equipment they stroll around in could be put to better use.

All of that 'military equipment' is donated from the military once their use becomes obsolete, they don't really 'cost' the police departments anything.

[ItalAussie]

Militarization of the police really seems like part of the problem of eroding trust, not part of the solution.

I'm not suggesting that police should be unarmed, but there's no reason for police to have vehicles like this:

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/5ead271e887562e4edb42936fa01c09ea617f72a/c=92-0-964-656&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/WTSP/WTSP/2014/08/20/1408569922000-Tampa-Police-tank.jpg

It fosters an image of enmity and separation, rather than being a key part of society. Seeing that rolling down the street induces fear rather than solidarity.

[ItalAussie]

Then police officers would simply not do their job. See the "Ferguson Effect"; it's already happening.
It should be treated as a respected calling. People joining the military are told they understand the risks when they signed up. The same should be true of police officers. The military are held to a much higher standard. If police want to militarize, they should have to take on the associated responsibility as well.

It's like when those pictures were shown of police using military weapons and equipment, and a bunch of military officers wrote articles pointing out that they were doing it entirely wrong, and would be sanctioned if they did things like pointing their guns while moving, or aiming at targets they weren't prepared to shoot at that moment.

If they want military equipment, they should require military training and military consequences. Without those, it's people playing army with real guns.

[GS]

If you want to see what happens when certain sections of the community lose trust in the impartiality of the police, look no further than here.

The police cannot go about shooting people, predominantly black people, for no justifiable reason.

[Bartholomert]

It should be treated as a respected calling. People joining the military are told they understand the risks when they signed up. The same should be true of police officers. The military are held to a much higher standard. If police want to militarize, they should have to take on the associated responsibility as well.

It's like when those pictures were shown of police using military weapons and equipment, and a bunch of military officers wrote articles pointing out that they were doing it entirely wrong, and would be sanctioned if they did things like pointing their guns while moving, or aiming at targets they weren't prepared to shoot at that moment.

If they want military equipment, they should require military training and military consequences. Without those, it's people playing army with real guns.

I actually agree with you about the militarization of local police departments; I'm more of a Ron Paul / constitutionalist guy when it comes to law enforcement powers.

From a legal perspective however, I think you are sorely sorely mistaken about the wisdom of lowering the burden of proof required to hold cops legally responsible for certain actions. That would be literally insane and inevitably lead to an immense waste of resources dedicated to defending cops sued by literally everyone ever handled in a somewhat rough fashion. Believe it or not the vast vast majority of cop interactions are very professional and result in no harm to any party.

[Bartholomert]

If you want to see what happens when certain sections of the community lose trust in the impartiality of the police, look no further than here.

The police cannot go about shooting people, predominantly black people, for no justifiable reason.

This. Isn't. Happenning. Holy fucking shit.

[GS]

This. Isn't. Happenning. Holy fucking shit.

Yes, it is. They reach for a driving licence, and they're shot. That's not a justifiable reason, because the police officer's life isn't in danger. He may be "on edge", but that's part of being in the police. If they can't control the situation, there are some very, very serious questions that need to be asked about the level of training and the type of individual the police force are recruiting.

[Lewis]

I'm sure plenty of white people are getting wasted for lol reasons by the useless police. Has anyone written a proper article about that? Is there room for an 'Actually, the coppers are just shit' narrative', or would conservatives lose it and start calling you coal burner?

[Bernanke]

I'm sure plenty of white people are getting wasted for lol reasons by the useless police. Has anyone written a proper article about that? Is there room for an 'Actually, the coppers are just shit' narrative', or would conservatives lose it and start calling you coal burner?

The one that springs to mind is this one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_James_Boyd

He had a knife, but non-lethal force should really have been possible if you watch the video from the shooting.

[Bartholomert]

Yes, it is. They reach for a driving licence, and they're shot. That's not a justifiable reason, because the police officer's life isn't in danger. He may be "on edge", but that's part of being in the police. If they can't control the situation, there are some very, very serious questions that need to be asked about the level of training and the type of individual the police force are recruiting.

You are generalizing all police officers on the basis of one freak incident for which he will serve jail time (if that is in fact what happened). Moreover, RACE IS NOT A FACTOR BASED ON STATISTICS.

Please educate yourself:

http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler

"Cops killed nearly twice as many whites as blacks in 2015. According to data compiled by The Washington Post, 50 percent of the victims of fatal police shootings were white, while 26 percent were black. The majority of these victims had a gun or "were armed or otherwise threatening the officer with potentially lethal force," according to MacDonald in a speech at Hillsdale College.

Some may argue that these statistics are evidence of racist treatment toward blacks, since whites consist of 62 percent of the population and blacks make up 12 percent of the population. But as MacDonald writes in The Wall Street Journal, 2009 statistics from the Bureau of Justice Statistics reveal that blacks were charged with 62 percent of robberies, 57 percent of murders and 45 percent of assaults in the 75 biggest counties in the country, despite only comprising roughly 15 percent of the population in these counties.

"Such a concentration of criminal violence in minority communities means that officers will be disproportionately confronting armed and often resisting suspects in those communities, raising officers’ own risk of using lethal force," writes MacDonald.

MacDonald also pointed out in her Hillsdale speech that blacks "commit 75 percent of all shootings, 70 percent of all robberies, and 66 percent of all violent crime" in New York City, even though they consist of 23 percent of the city's population.

"The black violent crime rate would actually predict that more than 26 percent of police victims would be black," MacDonald said. "Officer use of force will occur where the police interact most often with violent criminals, armed suspects, and those resisting arrest, and that is in black neighborhoods."

[phonics]

There's been some interesting analysis of the shooter by military/SWAT people and they say he's very well trained when it comes to firing/firing while moving/tactical positioning and assuming from that that it's disaffected veterans doing the attack.


This is a clear instance of Fire Team Terrorism. We’ve had a few prior events like this, both successful and thwarted.

D.C. Sniper – lots of single deaths, but a two man team
Hutaree militia – double tap bombing & fire team attack averted
San Bernardino – husband/wife team

There is no information yet, but I’m going to speculate this is something I’ve long anticipated – an attack by disaffected U.S. veterans.
We had thirty eight days of ground combat during Desert Storm, which brought us the Oklahoma City bombing and the D.C. Sniper. Our war in Afghanistan and Bush’s adventure in Iraq have produced men who’ve spent thirty eight months in hardcore urban combat or long distance counter-insurgency.
The worst decision we made was the discharge of over 30,000 veterans using PDO (personality disorder) discharges to avoid giving them benefits. The vast majority of these men have closed head brain injuries due to IEDs. They’ve given up their health and well being for this country, and we abandoned them.
The particulars will change over time, but attacks like this are going to keep happening, because we laid the groundwork for them.

https://nealrauhauser.wordpress.com/2016/07/08/fire-team-terror-in-dallas/

and this guy https://twitter.com/MalcolmNance

[GS]

Lots of words

You need to learn from the Northern Irish example. Nobody cared when the police did their job correctly - that's what they're paid for, and what they're expected to do.

People cared when the police were perceived as not doing their job correctly and the perception, real or otherwise, was that they were not wholly impartial where Catholic communities were concerned. The perception in America is that there is a serious problem with how the police interact with the black community. When that view becomes widespread, trust in the police force steadily erodes. You end up in incredibly unpleasant territory whereby the police, who should be pillars of a secure and safe living environment, are treated with suspicion and distrust, where every decision and the motive behind it is questioned. Race is clearly a factor, because it's the black victims who are getting high profile media coverage and fuelling this sense of injustice.

You can twist yourself into intellectual knots to deny it if you want to, but until such time as everybody accepts it's happening and takes the necessary steps to address it it's only going to get worse. The matter is, of course, exacerbated considerably by the ready availability of weaponry in America.

[John]

The majority of these victims had a gun or "were armed or otherwise threatening the officer with potentially lethal force," according to MacDonald in a speech at Hillsdale College.

This is the problem, not the racial disparity you keep coming back to.

If the majority were armed in some way then by definition some people were shot who weren't armed at all. Which is the precise scenario you keep telling us Is. Not. Happening.

[Pepe]

Isn't this a manifestation of the 'we need guns so that we can defend ourselves when the evil government comes to get us' lol argument? Mert and his gun nut crew should be proud. Law abiding citizens standing up to a regime they feel oppressed by.

[ItalAussie]

From a legal perspective however, I think you are sorely sorely mistaken about the wisdom of lowering the burden of proof required to hold cops legally responsible for certain actions. That would be literally insane and inevitably lead to an immense waste of resources dedicated to defending cops sued by literally everyone ever handled in a somewhat rough fashion. Believe it or not the vast vast majority of cop interactions are very professional and result in no harm to any party.
I don't want to lower the burden of proof. I'm a big believer in burden of proof. I don't, however, think that the burden of proof should be higher than normal either. It should be exactly the same as any other crime (which it currently isn't, due to special dispensation within the legal system put through by "tough on crime" politicians).

But any police officer who is found breaking the law in the course of their duty should be subject to particularly harsh sentencing, as social order depends on us trusting police officers not to abuse their authority. Their crime was not only a crime in itself, but also a contribution to the overall breakdown in public trust of the police as an institution. There should be a predisposition towards the harshest end of the punishment range in such cases.

[Bartholomert]

I don't want to lower the burden of proof. I'm a big believer in burden of proof. I don't, however, think that the burden of proof should be higher than normal either. It should be exactly the same as any other crime (which it currently isn't, due to special dispensation within the legal system put through by "tough on crime" politicians).

But any police officer who is found breaking the law in the course of their duty should be subject to particularly harsh sentencing, as social order depends on us trusting police officers not to abuse their authority. Their crime was not only a crime in itself, but also a contribution to the overall breakdown in public trust of the police as an institution. There should be a predisposition towards the harshest end of the punishment range in such cases.

Main difference between civilians and police officers is that the former aren't empowered with maintaining social order, detaining suspects, and physically subduing non-compliant individuals. Accordingly, they need greater legal protections (otherwise they would be guilty of assault, battery, unlawful imprisonment, etc. every time they took a suspect in custody) to be able to be able to execute their duties with confidence and absent delay.

[Bartholomert]

Isn't this a manifestation of the 'we need guns so that we can defend ourselves when the evil government comes to get us' lol argument? Mert and his gun nut crew should be proud. Law abiding citizens standing up to a regime they feel oppressed by.

Yes. Except the evil government wasn't trying to 'get' anyone.

[Pepe]

That's your take on things, they see it otherwise.

[Davgooner]

Pretty blatant from Mert, this.

What a cunt.

[Bartholomert]

That's your take on things, they see it otherwise.

Facts aren't subjective.

[ItalAussie]

Main difference between civilians and police officers is that the former aren't empowered with maintaining social order, detaining suspects, and physically subduing non-compliant individuals. Accordingly, they need greater legal protections (otherwise they would be guilty of assault, battery, unlawful imprisonment, etc. every time they took a suspect in custody) to be able to be able to execute their duties with confidence and absent delay.

I agree - police do sometimes need to perform acts that would otherwise be crimes. But that is a very serious responsibility, which is why it should be treated very harshly when abused.

Anyone who is granted special legal dispensation in the cause of doing their job should be punished severely if are found guilty of taking liberties with that dispensation.

[Disco]

Facts aren't subjective.

What colour would you say this dress was....

[Bernanke]

From the press conference: The dead shooter didn't kill himself, he was killed by a bomb detonation. That shooter said he was upset about BLM and wanted to kill white police officers. Acted alone.

Apparently they sort of did a drone strike on him with a bomb disposal robot.

[Bartholomert]

I agree - police do sometimes need to perform acts that would otherwise be crimes. But that is a very serious responsibility, which is why it should be treated very harshly when abused.

Anyone who is granted special legal dispensation in the cause of doing their job should be punished severely if are found guilty of taking liberties with that dispensation.

I could live with / would probably support higher legal burden combined with harsher penalties for abusing the responsibilities...


From the press conference: The dead shooter didn't kill himself, he was killed by a bomb detonation. That shooter said he was upset about BLM and wanted to kill white police officers. Acted alone.

Apparently they sort of did a drone strike on him with a bomb disposal robot.

Oh boy, source? If internet forums / up votes on comments on articles are anything to go by, things are going to get much more uglier and polarized...

[Pepe]

Not that any abuse has occurred of course, amirite?

[Bartholomert]

Not that any abuse has occurred of course, amirite?

I don't remember the Civil Rights Movement participants executing cops as part of their protests...

[Bartholomert]

All this shit is so sad, for real. On both sides. But you cannot abandon logic and reason...

[leedsrevolution]

Talking to mert about gun law is as productive as talking to Harold about immigration. Or talking to GS about religion. Waste of time.

[Bartholomert]

Dallas PD latest update:

https://twitter.com/NBCNightlyNews/status/751397195954286593

Apparently the shooter wanted to kill white cops and was upset at the latest shooting incidents. So there you go.

[Pepe]

All this shit is so sad, for real. On both sides. But you cannot abandon logic and reason...

:henn0rz:

[7om]

Race is clearly a factor, because it's the black victims who are getting high profile media coverage and fuelling this sense of injustice.


Which begs the question: why are the media not covering white cops killing white civilians when it is obviously happening? Never underestimate the media to keep pumping out the narrative and fueling these fires. Especially over here, it's a free for all with their news coverage.

[bruhnaldo]

I'm amazed that Mert doesn't have another forum where people actually care about his shit opinions.

[Bartholomert]

I'm amazed that Mert doesn't have another forum where people actually care about his shit opinions.

I do, but I feel it's my duty to expose you close minded liberals to alternative perspectives :hat:

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's the opposite over here, media coverage-wise. You have to be young, white and preferably physically attractive before your murder is widely reported in the media.

[bruhnaldo]

I do, but I feel it's my duty to expose you close minded liberals to alternative perspectives :hat:

Ya I'm nothing close to a liberal, but watching some barely educated child masquerade as an intellectual.. well.

I mean as if it's not painfully obvious you've been turned away by those more inclined in every other facet of life.. setting up shop on THE THIRD HALF! to bestow said "knowledge".

Now, I'd imagine, you'd thought if there's anywhere you could impress anonymous strangers and be considered an "expert".. it's a forum full of people who don't live in or give a flying fuck about America on the topic of America... on the contrary.

Wasting everyone's time with ridiculous hubris and conjecture just doesn't pass as intelligent thought. The only "exposing" been done is that of yourself, a fool to yet another set of people in your life, anonymous or not.

[Bartholomert]

Ya I'm nothing close to a liberal, but watching some barely educated child masquerade as an intellectual.. well.

I mean as if it's not painfully obvious you've been turned away by those more inclined in every other facet of life.. setting up shop on THE THIRD HALF! to bestow said "knowledge".

Now, I'd imagine, you'd thought if there's anywhere you could impress anonymous strangers and be considered an "expert".. it's a forum full of people who don't live in or give a flying fuck about America on the topic of America... on the contrary.

Wasting everyone's time with ridiculous hubris and conjecture just doesn't pass as intelligent thought. The only "exposing" been done is that of yourself, a fool to yet another set of people in your life, anonymous or not.

Barely educated? Eh? Do you even know my background?

My other forum is almost entirely Americans. Socially I do pretty well for myself. Ad hominem attacks are the purview of the insecure.

[bruhnaldo]

Here let me break it down for you

"You're an annoying little cunt that has never brought anything of substance to any discussion on this website and should probably just shut the fuck up."

[Bartholomert]

Here let me break it down for you

"You're an annoying little cunt that has never brought anything of substance to any discussion on this website and should probably just shut the fuck up."

Yes let's dismiss and silence mainstream Second Amendment / pro-Police arguments held by large portions of the US population because some people disagree with them. Sounds about on par with your average intolerant liberal.

Keep sucking up to the Europeans on the board, maybe with enough of their approval you will manage to successfully distinguish yourself as a 'different sophisticated American' !

[7om]

AKA beta cuck pussies?

[John]

It always makes me lol when Mert talks about 'silencing' things, as though someone here telling him to shut up and fuck off in some way damages the wider discourse. It's like when Harold bleats about free speech from behind a proxy or that time Chinny wanted to go to 'a higher power' to challenge an infraction.

[Kikó]

I would say I disagree with the shouting down of mert. Even if Mert only posts here about his views, so what? If we all thought the same, it would be worse than reading MJ's posts.

[Lewis]

I wonder how much the of the identity politics bullshit contributes to the general climate of mistrust. I would be inclined to say that it doesn't, but if Brexit killed that MP then the logic would follow that any and all attempts to divide people along cultural lines will foster this sort of atmosphere.

[Magic]

I would say I disagree with the shouting down of mert. Even if Mert only posts here about his views, so what? If we all thought the same, it would be worse than reading MJ's posts.

Bitch not even tagging before bagging.

[Ian]

close minded

This might hold more (read: any) weight if you yourself ever respected a position you don't personally hold and didn't bleat catchphrases at those who do.

This whole thing is incredibly sad and just leaves me feeling that the police aren't adequately prepared for these situations. Even if people are insistent that there's systematic prejudice the fact that those people bring it up out of hand in every one of these events isn't much better. Not every policeman who shoots a black guy when it could have been avoided is a racist murderer any more than every black guy with a gun and a prior is a threat to an arresting officer.

If a guy gets shot reaching for a license he's just been asked to produce there are bigger issues there regarding the policeman's readiness to do the job.

Edit: all that wasn't aimed at you, mert. In terms of the sad state of the escalation of this one I'm with you.

[Spoonsky]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/07/07/dj-peter-rosenberg-rips-cop-over-alton-sterling-shooting.html

The guy's sort of annoying, but he makes an interesting point. I think people would have a lot more respect for the police in general if they ever spoke out about this sort of thing. Instead when I see a cop I already half-make the assumption that he approves of it.

[Spoonsky]

Also this has been the best / most civilized Mert-fueled gun debate that I remember on TTH so kutgw.

[Shindig]

There needs to be a mentality shift around the perception of guns in the United States but I really don't know what could possibly trigger that. They're no longer a threat (defensively or otherwise) when ownership is so high. Imagine some guy going to plan a small robbery. He'll be packing because, well, why wouldn't you? Meanwhile you'll have police going into a domestic disturbance strapped because both, one or neither those involved could be carrying.

9/11 'but with guns' can't really transpire. And that's probably the one thing it would take. Unless you maybe get the NRA to treat guns as more specialist equipment licensed to the chosen, qualified few. That'll never happen though as the NRA makes too much out of it.

America. Land of the fucked.

[mikem]

Why are you all so binary about this? Stop thinking about this as either / or and accept it can be both / and.

Data on a graph can explain both Mert's and Eric Garner's truth if instead of looking at the overall pattern you focus on what makes up the data that clusters around a specific point.

When people tell you the truth of their life as they observe it (which is all BLM
Is asking of you), there is a shock when it does not match yours because your own is so immediate. It comes in through your eyes; theirs needs to be explained to you.

Your choice is do you judge or do you ask why do I experience mine differently? It is not identity politics wank, all those characteristics just help define different data clusters / vectors / whatever. We are not the center of the universe, just points on a graph. It is pretty arrogant to constantly assert that only you can define how someone else sees the truth of their life.

Otherwise, Sincere is right. You get two competing truths and the dominant one denies other people even the right to experience their own lives in a fashion other than how you dictate it. Which is the fundamental wound at the heart of America (and everywhere else).

[Bartholomert]

Yeah but what if their 'experience' is empirically wrong, and a psychological defense mechanism as a reaction to their own failures as a community. It's like me saying 'I'm a cat' and expecting public policy to be oriented around my feelings rather than fact.

Parting thought: Even if AA are treated more harshly by the police, maybe it's just a racial tax they have to pay in return for living in a more secure society, in the same way Whites pay a racial tax in the form of affirmative action to live in a more equitable society.

[Dquincy]

Global Peace Index
http://www.visionofhumanity.org/#/page/indexes/global-peace-index/ranking

USA 103rd out of 163.

[Byron]

Typical left-wing fascist, beta cuck, poor people methodology.

Wake up to the conspiracy that the socialist media is feeding you! Only God-Emperor Trump can save us!

[Bartholomert]

Global Peace Index
http://www.visionofhumanity.org/#/page/indexes/global-peace-index/ranking

USA 103rd out of 163.

UK is 47 behind Sierre Leone and Malawi. Are you kidding me with this nonsense?

[phonics]

Interesting piece:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/11/arent-more-white-people-than-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/?utm_term=.11c95030a4b5

[phonics]

After that abortion of a post, I found this from the Dallas Police Chief.


“You can carry a rifle legally and when you have gunfire going on, you usually go with the person that’s got a gun,” he said. “And so our police grabbed some of those individuals, took them to police headquarters and worked it out and figured out that they were not the shooters. But that is one of the real issues with the gun rights issues that we face – that in the middle of a firefight, it’s hard to pick out the good guys and the bad guys.”

But yeah, more guns = more safety

[Pepe]

Just grab the blackest ones. Wait, don't grab them, that might be dangerous. Just shoot the blackest ones.

[Pepe]

As of Sunday, 1,502 people have been shot and killed by on-duty police officers since Jan. 1, 2015.

What a lovely place, isn't it?

[phonics]

What a lovely place, isn't it?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnFYxM4WYAAmBCe.jpg

Lovely.

[Bartholomert]

After that abortion of a post, I found this from the Dallas Police Chief.



But yeah, more guns = more safety

Eh the shooter was described as using a rifle. So people who fit that description became suspects; pretty straight forward.

[Magic]

I knew this whole thing was a ruse by feminazis. Their empowerment has meant the end for the male population.

[phonics]

Eh the shooter was described as using a rifle. So people who fit that description became suspects; pretty straight forward.

So what you're saying is large amounts of guns made it harder for the police to do their job and potentially delayed them in finding the real suspect?

[Bartholomert]

So what you're saying is large amounts of guns made it harder for the police to do their job and potentially delayed them in finding the real suspect?

Yeah in the same way as if everyone wore red colored shirts.

[Bartholomert]

Harvard Study by Liberal Black Economist: Blacks shot at less than White by Police

"When it comes to the most lethal form of force — police shootings — the study finds no racial bias.

“It is the most surprising result of my career,” said Roland G. Fryer Jr., the author of the study and a professor of economics at Harvard. The study examined more than a thousand shootings in 10 major police departments, in Texas, Florida and California."

Link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection %2Fupshot&action=click&contentCollection=upshot&region=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=2&pgtype=sectionfront&smid=fb-nytupshot&smtyp=cur

[bruhnaldo]

Keep sucking up to the Europeans on the board, maybe with enough of their approval you will manage to successfully distinguish yourself as a 'different sophisticated American' !

I've never once portrayed myself as sophisticated nor do I tell you you're shit for the benefit of others.

I just truly think you're a dull pull-string doll of a human being whose never once came up with his own thoughts or ideas.

Being a parrot for Fox is no better than being a parrot for MSNBC, no matter how you want to dress it up.


I would say I disagree with the shouting down of mert. Even if Mert only posts here about his views, so what? If we all thought the same, it would be worse than reading MJ's posts.

I understand your sentiment but that's not it. He doesn't have "his views". He has catchphrases and hot takes.

There is nothing to gain from discourse that has no hope for middle ground. It's like arguing with a Liverpool supporter that Man United are "bigger" than them. Or with Harold that immigration may have benefit. It'll go nowhere no matter what.

When you encounter these robots, it's best to try and turn them off entirely instead of giving them a platform to bore everyone with.

[phonics]

Harvard Study by Liberal Black Economist: Blacks shot at less than White by Police

"When it comes to the most lethal form of force — police shootings — the study finds no racial bias.

“It is the most surprising result of my career,” said Roland G. Fryer Jr., the author of the study and a professor of economics at Harvard. The study examined more than a thousand shootings in 10 major police departments, in Texas, Florida and California."

Link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection %2Fupshot&action=click&contentCollection=upshot&region=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=2&pgtype=sectionfront&smid=fb-nytupshot&smtyp=cur

He trusts 'The Liberal Media' when it agrees with him

752595547882741760

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnHLCZRWYAA9Xt9.jpg:large

[Bartholomert]

Breh they found no racial bias in fucking Texas, tour is over boyo.

[Raoul Duke]

Another couple to fill that midweek lull: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36770136


A defendant grabbed a gun from a deputy, according to local reports.

[Bartholomert]

Based Texas:

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/texas/article/Man-who-tried-to-rob-Waffle-House-with-an-AK-47-8365342.php

"Man who tried to rob Waffle House with an AK-47 shot by customer"

[GS]

He would, of course, not have an AK47 to rob the waffle house in the first place if he hadn't been able to buy one with the weekly shopping.

[Magic]

Reggie Yates inside Bear county Texas.

Kids in jail for a few months for tagging on a school projector.

Texas.

[Magic]

BBC 1 now.

[GS]

Three police officers have been shot dead in Baton Rouge, apparently.

[Bartholomert]

Ah fuck.

[Bernanke]

CNN states at least three officers were killed, seven total who were shot.

[Magic]

#blm

[Lewis]

Thank God Black Lives Matter have made it to Britain. Yes, they have to focus on deaths in police custody (not really a race issue) and 'inequalities' (if not the same, then it is surely counter-productive for left-wingers to break these things down ethnically) rather than police shootings that don't happen here, but I'm sure they've got some valuable insights to share with us all. lol also at Owen Jones trying to get in on the ground floor for when Momentum start editing him out of old photos. Twat.

[John]

Their protest today was about that guy whose shooting kicked off the London Riots five years ago. What the fuck's going on?

[7om]

Some twats will use any reason to be outraged.

[Spikey M]

Public opinion overwhelmingly on your side? Make them late for their holidays just to really drive it home.

[Lewis]

Them riots made for some Classic TTH (lol at SG). Classic TTH, and then the courts slamming people for all sorts for the rest of the month. What a fitting end to the Establishment Summer of 2011.

[bruhnaldo]

Some twats will use any reason to be outraged.

If only they had the same passion about being gainfully employed.

[John]

SG posting Marcotti tweets about the riots is one of my biggest lols in the history of these boards. It was amazing.

All these twats have done is made me hope that the next time some racist arsehole is picking a black person to murder, they pick one of those wankers lying across the M4.

[bruhnaldo]

It's fucking madness. I saw a tweet from this #BLM cunt the other day. Basically she went to a BLM rally and there was this older white lady with dreadlocks there.

She got someone to take a picture of her basically dressing the lady down because of her hair.

Mind you, I think white people wearing dreadlocks is inherently corny, but what kind've world do these people live in where posting

"Saw a 'POC ally' today at the BLM rally but I was just not having it with these dreads #CulturalAppropriation"

As a caption of a picture you had someone else take of you while arguing with some old lady who was there to SUPPORT YOUR FUCKING CAUSE.

"Nah take a picture of me talking shit to this elderly woman. I'm 19 years old and know everything about the world." My God.

Personally, I'm a firm believer that #NoLivesMatter and we are all insignificant specks on the Universe's windshield. Not that any of you asked. But GOD that shit grinds my fucking gears.

[Lewis]

Black Lives Matter UK closed an airport down today because 'climate change is a racist crisis' (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/06/climate-change-racist-crisis-london-city-airport-black-lives-matter?CMP=twt_gu), and even the commenters are lolling at them (also, everyone involved in the protest was white).

[GS]

Unauthorised entry to the 'secure' area of the airport like the apron or the runway really should see you tasered immediately and / or forcibly removed before you're summarily imprisoned.

[bruhnaldo]

Every time this thread gets bumped I get sad cause I think someone else in my country has been shot :(

[Shindig]

Black Lives Matter UK closed an airport down today because 'climate change is a racist crisis' (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/06/climate-change-racist-crisis-london-city-airport-black-lives-matter?CMP=twt_gu), and even the commenters are lolling at them (also, everyone involved in the protest was white).

Wind it down, lads. It's getting a bit Fathers 4 Justice.

[John]

Black Lives Matter UK closed an airport down today because 'climate change is a racist crisis' (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/06/climate-change-racist-crisis-london-city-airport-black-lives-matter?CMP=twt_gu), and even the commenters are lolling at them (also, everyone involved in the protest was white).

I didn't think anyone could be more obnoxious than the more out-there elements of Black Lives Matter in the US, like Ta-Nehisi Coates claiming someone was racist when they proposed a black actor other than Idris Elba to play Bond because that black actor wasn't actually in the running so he was a safe 'white' choice, but our branch has outdone them in about two months.

There's a growing trend of people undermining their own cause by trying to portray it as a symptom of something bigger, or as something bigger than it is. The earliest example that immediately comes to mind in this context is Serena Williams telling anyone who'd listen that she was a victim of racism when someone said she looked a bit masculine with her twenty inch bisceps, but it's probably been quietly going on for years.

[Disco]

Every time this thread gets bumped I get sad cause I think someone else in my country has been shot :(

This place hasn't been that busy for years.

[Shindig]

Looks like they finally caught someone alive. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37465495)

And yes, when the article said, "20 year-old Turk" I did wonder if it was Mert.

[Byron]

Well on that basis, all those of Turkish heritage should be expelled I think. The Donald would probably agree with me.

[Disco]

They aren't sending their best, they're sending killers and cuckers.

[Lewis]

When that was first flashing up the other day the early reports described him as Mexican. Yeah right, mate. Mexicans haven't got time for this.

'I think he was a Muslim.'
'Well, you know... Could it have been a Trump supporter with a tan?'
'No.'
'I'll put "Hispanic", "possible Trump supporter", right?'

[7om]

Two active shooters at Ohio State University. Fuck sake.

EDIT: So I'm watching a live feed on Youtube and the guy doing the voice over just said, "this is currently trending number two on Twitter."

Is this what it's come to? Fuck me what a fucking shambles of a country.

[Smiffy]

Why is it always schools in America being shot at? Is there a reason?

[Pepe]

All thanks to Trump. Where is my sanctuary?

[7om]

The live chat on the feed I'm watching really is something. It's like a zoo.

[Pepe]

Racist.

[John]

Why is it always schools in America being shot at? Is there a reason?

Because guns are plentiful and their school system breeds social alienation in a way ours doesn't even come close to.

[7om]

And now he's just asked all viewers to like and subscribe. I'm done.

[Offshore Toon]

Having a megathread for U.S. mass shootings is fucking funny.

[Lewis]

It was a Somali refugee, and he never used a gun. Gutted.

[Spikey M]

Two active shooters at Ohio State University. Fuck sake.

EDIT: So I'm watching a live feed on Youtube and the guy doing the voice over just said, "this is currently trending number two on Twitter."

Is this what it's come to? Fuck me what a fucking shambles of a country.

Mate, you were watching a live fucking feed. Big, shiney, fuck off, glass house.

[Pepe]

"To go over the curb and strike pedestrians, and then get out and start striking them with a knife — that was on purpose,"

No shit.

[Spikey M]

Surely it's harder to get a knife than it is to get a gun over there.

[7om]

Mate, you were watching a live fucking feed. Big, shiney, fuck off, glass house.

I don't get your point.

[phonics]

You're expecting ethics out of some random bloke on youtube?

[7om]

Well it was a Fox affiliate. I know they're wankers but come on. I have a relative who studies there, hence my desperation to find out the current news.

[Baz]

Well it was a Fox affiliate. I know they're wankers but come on. I have a relative who studies there, hence my desperation to find out the current news.Is s/he okay?

[Lewis]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyYQ4POXcAEh0QS.jpg

Please be real.

[Raoul Duke]

It's on their website, so I'd assume so: http://thelantern.com/2016/11/from-the-archives-ohio-state-attacker-featured-in-humans-of-ohio-state/


“I wanted to pray in the open, but I was scared with everything going on in the media. I’m a Muslim, it’s not what the media portrays me to be. If people look at me, a Muslim praying, I don’t know what they’re going to think, what’s going to happen. But, I don’t blame them. It’s the media that put that picture in their heads so they’re just going to have it and it, it’s going to make them feel uncomfortable.

I'd imagine driving a car into them and running amok with a knife might make them uncomfortable too

[GS]

Is it appropriate to highlight that this "has nothing to do with Islam" or does it, in fact, have something to do with Islam?

[Shindig]

Mental health issue (tm).

[7om]

Is s/he okay?

Yeah, back home safe and sound. Cheers, Baz.

[phonics]

That shooting at an airport has been rather untalked about considering someone literally shot up an air port.

I wonder why.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1qtjPLVQAETaPf.jpg:large

Oh.

[Boydy]

MK Ultra still going

[Offshore Toon]

I've seen quite a few posts on r/conspiracy (its mostly stuff like this, as opposed to lizard people) about that and it really does make you wonder. I've seen quite a few theories regarding false flag attacks (attacks set up by the government for various reasons), but this is significant. Given some of the tactics the American government has used in the past, I don't think its far-fetched to think they might orchestrate terrorist attacks for their own benefit.

[Magic]

Nobody forces me to watch Islamic State videos. I watch them entirely of my own accord. What a chump.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've seen quite a few posts on r/conspiracy (its mostly stuff like this, as opposed to lizard people) about that and it really does make you wonder. I've seen quite a few theories regarding false flag attacks (attacks set up by the government for various reasons), but this is significant. Given some of the tactics the American government has used in the past, I don't think its far-fetched to think they might orchestrate terrorist attacks for their own benefit.

In 99% of cases, it would be far too hard to actually orchestrate without somebody leaking it or the 'plot' being discovered later on. It's just wishful thinking and people believing what they want to believe.

And that's just a guy shooting up an airport. There are people who think 9/11 was false flag. I mean, come on.

[Offshore Toon]

Look how far technology has come since the 50s. If they were trying to control minds back then, it isn't ridiculous to think they may have achieved that goal.

[Magic]

Jesus Christ looks like phonics will have to start sharing that tinfoil.

[phonics]

Fucking hell, Offshore :D

Lay off the Acid for a year or two.

[Disco]

Welcome back Lurch.

[Offshore Toon]

I'm just open to the possibility. There obviously isn't enough evidence to state such claims with any conviction, but there's enough there to make you wonder.

[Yevrah]

There isn't any actual evidence at all though, is there?

[Offshore Toon]

There isn't any actual evidence at all though, is there?
I don't spend my time digging through declassified reports, but there's evidence that the MK Ultra tests took place, isn't there?

[Boydy]

Yeah, MK Ultra was an actual thing. They released a load of documents about it and supposedly stopped it in the seventies.

[Magic]

And it didn't work.

[Offshore Toon]

And it didn't work.
Neither did your marriage, but you're carrying on with that.

[Magic]

And it is working.

Maybe there's something in this after all. Instead of mind control via dehumanisation, abuse, psychological warfare, they should use praise, positive reinforcement and honesty.

[Raoul Duke]

There's also a chance he was a mentalist who said batshit crazy things

[Offshore Toon]

And it is working.
See, things change.

Anyway, I'm not sure how certain of anything you can actually be in this day and age. In all likelihood any conspiracy theory is bollocks, but I don't see how anybody in our position can sit there and say they know 100% what is going on and what isn't. Watching HyperNormalisation and reading about Snowden and Assange has definitely had an effect, but its not like distrusting powerful people is a new idea.

[Kikó]

See you in Brazil compadre.

[Offshore Toon]

See you in Brazil compadre.
So that's why you married a Portuguese lass.

[Lewis]

There is a black man (probably a white supremacist of some sort) streaming himself shooting random people in Cleveland over some bird. That's a new one.

[Smiffy]

Jesus. I've still got a way to go, clearly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtKzm957sfk

[SvN]

Just saw the video of him shooting the old guy - it was genuinely horrific. Not because of gore - but the defenselessness of the victim.

[Smiffy]

You're not wrong there, SvN. That's cold.

[Bartholomert]

There is a black man (probably a white supremacist of some sort) streaming himself shooting random people in Cleveland over some bird. That's a new one.

Probably why it's not plastered all over my newsfeed. Sloots gunna sloot.

[-james-]

I find it horribly sad that you can make it to that age, only to be executed by some nutter while walking back from the shops.

It's a shame he wont get taken alive.

[Smiffy]

I thought it was Uncle Phil at first. Turns out he's dead too.

[Henry]

http://www.newsweek.com/guns-kids-third-leading-cause-death-627209

Guns are now the third highest cause of death for American children.

[Ian]

(behind illnesses and unintentional injuries like drownings or car crashes)

That's a bit contrived, no?

[Spoonsky]

You all hear about the mass shootings, what you don't hear about is the wife/husband murder-suicide that's happening every other day in Buttfuck Utah. Always hidden somewhere in the local section of the newspaper.

[John]

That's a bit contrived, no?

Incredibly contrived. Lumping all 'illnesses' together is laughable enough, but to then have a separate category for 'unintentional injuries' when most instances in which a child is killed by a gun will be unintentional and the only three gunshot victims mentioned are described as accidental is just clear manipulation of the numbers. I'd lay down money that study was manufactured to give exactly that headline.

[Lewis]

Isn't everybody in Buttfuck Utah a smackhead now anyway?

[Pepe]

You all hear about the mass shootings, what you don't hear about is the wife/husband murder-suicide that's happening every other day in Buttfuck Utah. Always hidden somewhere in the local section of the newspaper.

Or all those heroes preventing crime with their concealed carry permit.

[Pepe]

Isn't everybody in Buttfuck Utah a smackhead now anyway?

Isn't everyone in a rural area? Or a urban one?

[bruhnaldo]

That's a bit contrived, no?

lmfao

Imagine putting together a poll and needing to lump together basically every common type of death just to be able to say "guns" are the third leading cause of death in children.

[bruhnaldo]

Or all those heroes preventing crime with their concealed carry permit.

Well if one considers not doing a crime because they're likely to be blown away before actually committing it... that's what we like to call a "deterrent".

There's a reason why most of these things happen in "GUN FREE" zones.

[Spikey M]

A gun debate again. Yaaaay.

[John]

That's twice today someone has hit a Mert touchstone, namely boasting about wealth he doesn't have and gun free zones being the devil. If someone volunteers to call everyone posting in the relationship thread a 'beta cuck bitch' once a fortnight we can probably do away with him.

[bruhnaldo]

I didn't say gun free zones are the devil. I said a crazy person who wants to hurt a lot of people is going to be more likely to go to a place where there supposedly aren't any guns to do their crazy person business.

Not really a difficult concept. People tend to go away from things that are a danger to them.

[Spikey M]

People tend to go away from things that are a danger to them.

Let's see if you can take this to its logical conclusion.

[bruhnaldo]

By all means, genius, after you.

[leedsrevolution]

I love gun conversations. Talking to an American about gun laws and how they should be changed is the same as talking to a catholic about religion being fucking stupid. Nothing changes but people still moan when they get raped or shot.

[bruhnaldo]

All of that is nice in conversation but it's wildly impractical.

You're not gonna take all the guns away from the criminals. The only people who would turn their guns in are law-abiding citizens. In turn, making those people less safe.

If you want to find a gun, you'll find a gun regardless of how the laws change. These conversations are pointless.

[leedsrevolution]

All of that is nice in conversation but it's wildly impractical.

You're not gonna take all the guns away from the criminals. The only people who would turn their guns in are law-abiding citizens. In turn, making those people less safe.

If you want to find a gun, you'll find a gun regardless of how the laws change. These conversations are pointless.

It's not quite like that. Someone once said to me when I was single "if you ever want to text your ex, have a wank first". I think a similar outlook can be applied here. In England, if you want to fucking shoot someone in the face, it would take a long fucking time to get a gun and shit togethor to be able to do that. In fact, anyone who gets shot in England, probably deserved it. However, in America, you wona shoot someone in the face, it's so fucking simple.

In some states you can just pop to a local supermarket and buy a semi automatic. Whilst your shooting that one guy in the face, might as well shoot some others i suppose. I mean I have two hundred rounds for the same price as my monthly wage. Won't need another monthly wage after I've shot all these faces. Etc etx

I mean, i am far from intelligent and if I can see that gun laws in America are dumb then god help you all (no pun intended).

[bruhnaldo]

It's not quite like that. Someone once said to me when I was single "if you ever want to text your ex, have a wank first". I think a similar outlook can be applied here.

You're 100% right.

If they can't use a gun, they'll just create a makeshift bomb and detonate it after an Ariana Grande concert.
If they can't use a gun, they'll just drive a truck into a crowd of people.

There is no easy solution.

[niko_cee]

7212 deaths in 2017 and counting.

Not that I understand the original stat contrivance point. Was it that guns should be higher or lower than the other categories?

[Shindig]

Solution:

1. Guns for coke program
2. People hand over guns, you hand over coke.
3. You hold up them for the coke.
4. Guns and drugs solved.
5. SELL BOTH FOR MAD PROFIT.

[mikem]

John covered the contrivance pretty well with one exception. Not only did they separate out unintentional gun deaths from all unintentional deaths but my understanding is that they also grouped in gun deaths from gang violence.

But all American gun conversations are overblown so why ruin their fun.

[leedsrevolution]

You're 100% right.

If they can't use a gun, they'll just create a makeshift bomb and detonate it after an Ariana Grande concert.
If they can't use a gun, they'll just drive a truck into a crowd of people.

There is no easy solution.

Of course there isn't an easy solution. That's not the point, an obvious solution to reducing murders would be to ban guns. Surely reducing murders is a good thing and of course banning them would do that. Proper fucking simple you stupid American cunt.

[leedsrevolution]

I love gun conversations.

[Pepe]

The problem with the US is that there are already so many guns floating around that any sort of ban wouldn't achieve much.

[Ian]

7212 deaths in 2017 and counting.

Not that I understand the original stat contrivance point. Was it that guns should be higher or lower than the other categories?

Well in that article they seem to have gone "guns are third, literally every other type of accident is second if you combine them all."

[Jimmy Floyd]

The problem with the US is that there are already so many guns floating around that any sort of ban wouldn't achieve much.

Opposite of here - even hardened criminals and terrorists often just can't get hold of them for love nor money.

[Spikey M]

The criminals that do have them have usually 'drilled out' a replica that has a 50% chance of going bang in their face.

[Disco]

The problem with the US is that there are already so many guns floating around that any sort of ban wouldn't achieve much.

Not instantly, but then again this logic isn't used when discussing any other type of law.

Well, there's already loads of drugs, might as well decriminalize them

[Spikey M]

In fairness I have heard that exact opinion voiced.

[Disco]

It's an example fuckface, apply the same logic to anything else and the argument against gun restrictions looks ridiculous.

[Spikey M]

:harold:

[Queenslander]

I'm not allowed to obtain gun licence where I live.

[randomlegend]

You're 100% right.

If they can't use a gun, they'll just create a makeshift bomb and detonate it after an Ariana Grande concert.
If they can't use a gun, they'll just drive a truck into a crowd of people.

There is no easy solution.

Well we've had 2 of those incidents in a year, and prior to that nothing for a very long time.

You guys have biweekly mass shootings.

[Disco]

I'm not allowed to obtain gun licence where I live.

Sensible measures for a safer Australia.

[Queenslander]

Sensible measures for a safer Australia.

:D

I do agree with it though.

[bruhnaldo]

Of course there isn't an easy solution. That's not the point, an obvious solution to reducing murders would be to ban guns. Surely reducing murders is a good thing and of course banning them would do that. Proper fucking simple you stupid American cunt.

What part of the people committing murders aren't just going to turn in their guns is so fucking difficult for you, you remedial English dipshit?

Talking dumb shit because you live in la-la land where everything is simple and everyone just says "Hey sure, I totally agree with this gun ban! I'm deffo going to give you my gun now!"

We should ban drugs next! That'll get them off the streets!

[phonics]

Bruh, you're coming off as a giant, incoherently angry dumbass. Quit while you're ahead.

[bruhnaldo]

Well we've had 2 of those incidents in a year, and prior to that nothing for a very long time.

You guys have biweekly mass shootings.

"biweekly" yet we haven't had a mass shooting for a year. Which isn't to say that's something to be proud of but let's not overstate the problem.

Unless of course you, unlike every politician, wants to acknowledge the problems in Chicago + gun violence. Mind you, those guys are deffo gonna just stop being gang-banging dickheads because some rich politician drafts legislation saying "turn in your guns, please!" I sure hope we get on that soon.

[phonics]

"biweekly" yet we haven't had a mass shooting for a year. Which isn't to say that's something to be proud of but let's not overstate the problem.

A guy opened fire at sitting congress members last week...

There's actually been 14 mass shootings in the last 10 days. Only 2 in Chicago (although I guess you can throw the St. Louis one in if you really want)

http://i.imgur.com/XmBrXj6.png

[bruhnaldo]

Bruh, you're coming off as a giant, incoherently angry dumbass. Quit while you're ahead.

Because "let's ban the guns! that'll show those criminals and crazy people!" isn't the most incoherently dumbassed "solution" there is.

Constantly just people providing extraordinarily simplistic and even more unrealistic solutions coupled with a hilariously pretentious tone but I'm the bad guy for pointing this out.

[7om]

Depends how you define ' mass'. Some guy went mental in Orlando a few weeks ago at his old workplace, didn't he?

[bruhnaldo]

A guy opened fire at sitting congress members last week...

There's actually been 14 mass shootings in the last 10 days.

http://i.imgur.com/XmBrXj6.png

I guess we have a different interpretation as to what constitutes a "mass" shootings.

But again, let's nevermind Chicago where gun violence is actually the problem.

[phonics]

If you're not counting 4 or more people shot at once as a mass shooting. You have a mass shooting issue.

[bruhnaldo]

Depends how you define ' mass'. Some guy went mental in Orlando a few weeks ago at his old workplace, didn't he?

I'm on the same website and you literally have to go 17 pages and one full year to find an incident where more than 6 people were injured.

"Mass" shootings every day guysm! It's the wild wild west out here! Ban all the guns! Ban all the trucks! Ban all the nails/bits of plastic!

[7om]

I'm on the same website and you literally have to go 17 pages and one full year to find an incident where more than 6 people were injured.

"Mass" shootings every day guysm! It's the wild wild west out here! Ban all the guns! Ban all the trucks! Ban all the nails/bits of plastic!

Well the FBI apparently says four or more deaths. There's two on Phonics' screenshot alone and the one I cited had six which was on 6th June.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Orlando_shooting

[phonics]

I'm on the same website and you literally have to go 17 pages and one full year to find an incident where more than 6 people were injured.

2 people were killed and 5 were injured on June 9th in Fort Worth, Texas. You can't read.

[bruhnaldo]

Again, how do you get the criminals/crazy people who want to use guns for gun violence to turn in their guns?

I'm not even talking about law-abiding citizens at this point, cause that's an entire lol in itself.

How, in this hilarious utopia, do you suppose this would practically be done?

[John]

"biweekly" yet we haven't had a mass shooting for a year. Which isn't to say that's something to be proud of but let's not overstate the problem.

How are you defining 'mass shooting' to come up with that? The official definition is four or more people shot in a single incident, and that happens about three times a day.

[phonics]

Again, how do you get the criminals/crazy people who want to use guns for gun violence to turn in their guns?

I'm not even talking about law-abiding citizens at this point, cause that's an entire lol in itself.

How, in this hilarious utopia, do you suppose this would practically be done?

If you'd like to move the goalposts some more we can move from whether it should be done onto how it's done once you calm down.

[John]

I'm on the same website and you literally have to go 17 pages and one full year to find an incident where more than 6 people were injured.

"Mass" shootings every day guysm! It's the wild wild west out here! Ban all the guns! Ban all the trucks! Ban all the nails/bits of plastic!

I've just clicked on to that site and the very first incident listed has seven injuries.

[bruhnaldo]

It's gang violence, not "some crazy person grabbing a gun and shooting a bunch of innocent people for no reason" violence.

If you can't differentiate between the two maybe it's you who has the problem.

I can assure you that the solution to one (gang violence) is not the same as the other (gun violence).

A couple dudes shooting at each other over "gang turf" isn't something that's even remotely in the realm of "Let's put a bunch of nails and bits into a homemade explosive device and kill a bunch of little kids leaving a concert".

[bruhnaldo]

If you'd like to move the goalposts some more we can move from whether it should be done onto how it's done once you calm down.

Lmfaoooooo that was the entire point from the beginning. Get fucked.

[bruhnaldo]

I've just clicked on to that site and the very first incident listed has seven injuries.

So let's say "killed", then. Again, the point is, how do you enact this "so easy! so simple!" solution to fix our country?

Come on lads let's hear it.

[bruhnaldo]

Everybody's a genius until it's time to actually employ these so simple solutions. Fancy how that works.

[phonics]

I'm not sure who he's even arguing with at this point so I'm going for a cigarette. I'll probably come back to find out he's had another breakdown. C'est la vie.

[phonics]

So let's say "killed", then.

That would be June 5th in Orlando, Florida as stated earlier in the thread.

[bruhnaldo]

Ya i didn't think so.

[7om]

I don't see where anybody has professed to being a genius.

[bruhnaldo]

That would be June 5th in Orlando, Florida as stated earlier in the thread.

if 6 people is a "mass" in a country of 350 million people I mean idk what to tell you

talk about moving goal posts yet you're stuck on this irrelevant bullshit

[bruhnaldo]

I don't see where anybody has professed to being a genius.

Well it's SOOOO simple? I don't understand? Everyone can talk down to others but magically they don't have the fucking answers.

I'll wait.

[7om]

I just think you don't like being pulled up on your shit.

[bruhnaldo]

If arguing over whether 5, 6, or 7 deaths is a "mass shooting" is me being "pulled up on my shit" as opposed to me asking all of the people who constantly talk shit about my country for a legitimate answer as to how they would employ this "oh so simple" solution then by all means, enjoy.

[phonics]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cDDEhLw1PVI/hqdefault.jpg

"Leave America Alone!"

[bruhnaldo]

Ya'll can spend all day telling me how I'm dumb and I ain't shit but if only you'd spend that time coming up with these simple ass solutions maybe you'd do some great for the world.

I'll be patiently waiting for your fault-proof plan.

[7om]

Nobody has said ' you ain't shit'.

[John]

So let's say "killed", then. Again, the point is, how do you enact this "so easy! so simple!" solution to fix our country?

Come on lads let's hear it.

:D Let's not.

You don't have to know how to fix a problem to acknowledge that there is one. The incredible thing to us outsiders isn't that your country hasn't yet fixed gun violence, it's that there isn't a top down acknowledgement that there's even a problem with guns, let alone a concerted effort to improve the issue.

Your reaction here actually speaks quite a lot to why that's the case. The moment someone mentions gun legislation to a certain section of America you get an incredible dose of fuckwit flavoured screeching and if you don't have a full solution immediately ready to go which fixes the problem, complies with a two hundred year old parchment, and mollifies the hooting bellend in front of you then tough luck, YOU LOSE, and there's a smug whopper to deal with.

A good start would be to make full background checks mandatory for all guns and in all states, so a mentally ill headbanger can't just pick up a rifle from his local shop on ten minutes notice. You'd probably cut out a few deaths just through letting people cool down for the fortnight waiting period too.

[bruhnaldo]

You're all acting like I'm okay with my fellow citizens getting murked every other day.

The point is it's not as simple as your cheesy little banter makes it out to be. I was having a perfectly level-headed discussion until this dickhead from Leeds decided to turn it up a notch.

Since we can't have respectable discussion this is what we'll have. I'm literally begging you all to bless my country with your knowledge as to save the lives of my fellow countrymen.

[bruhnaldo]

:D Let's not.

You don't have to know how to fix a problem to acknowledge that there is one. The incredible thing to us outsiders isn't that your country hasn't yet fixed gun violence, it's that there isn't a top down acknowledgement that there's even a problem with guns, let alone a concerted effort to improve the issue.

Your reaction here actually speaks quite a lot to why that's the case. The moment someone mentions gun legislation to a certain section of America you get an incredible dose of fuckwit flavoured screeching and if you don't have a full solution immediately ready to go which fixes the problem, complies with a two hundred year old parchment, and mollifies the hooting bellend in front of you then tough luck, YOU LOSE, and there's a smug whopper to deal with.

There's certainly a gun problem in this country. Sitting around pretentiously talking down to people because there aren't no easy solutions is, ironically, also not a solution to it.

That's all I was trying to say.

1) Crazy people will always do crazy shit. If you take away the guns, they'll mimic other shit they've seen.

2) Getting law-abiding citizens to turn in their guns is one thing, getting known criminals to do so is another, getting "underground" gun runners to stop running guns to gangs and whoever the fuck else is an entirely other.

3, 4, 5, 6, people getting shot over stupid shit is not something I want for my country.... but completely ignoring the points above to bang on about these incidents happening "bi-weekly", instead of acknowledging that yes, the people who want to hurt people will always find ways to do so, is a red herring at best.

[leedsrevolution]

So let's say "killed", then. Again, the point is, how do you enact this "so easy! so simple!" solution to fix our country?

Come on lads let's hear it.

You ban all guns. Granted it will take time but it will stop people who are fucked off at there boss etc,nipping to a shop and going in and shooting them.

[leedsrevolution]

:D Let's not.

You don't have to know how to fix a problem to acknowledge that there is one. The incredible thing to us outsiders isn't that your country hasn't yet fixed gun violence, it's that there isn't a top down acknowledgement that there's even a problem with guns, let alone a concerted effort to improve the issue.

Your reaction here actually speaks quite a lot to why that's the case. The moment someone mentions gun legislation to a certain section of America you get an incredible dose of fuckwit flavoured screeching and if you don't have a full solution immediately ready to go which fixes the problem, complies with a two hundred year old parchment, and mollifies the hooting bellend in front of you then tough luck, YOU LOSE, and there's a smug whopper to deal with.

A good start would be to make full background checks mandatory for all guns and in all states, so a mentally ill headbanger can't just pick up a rifle from his local shop on ten minutes notice. You'd probably cut out a few deaths just through letting people cool down for the fortnight waiting period too.

Absolutely this. Brilliant post.

[bruhnaldo]

You ban all guns. Granted it will take time but it will stop people who are fucked off at there boss etc,nipping to a shop and going in and shooting them.

There are probably more guns in this country than there are people. This is not a viable solution.

The law-abiding citizens of this country aren't going to want to turn their guns in. You can't have police raids to take away "suspected" guns from "suspected" gun-owners.

I don't understand why you won't get passed the very first part and see how insane your "plan" is to actually attempt to implement.

[leedsrevolution]

You're all acting like I'm okay with my fellow citizens getting murked every other day.

The point is it's not as simple as your cheesy little banter makes it out to be. I was having a perfectly level-headed discussion until this dickhead from Leeds decided to turn it up a notch.

Since we can't have respectable discussion this is what we'll have. I'm literally begging you all to bless my country with your knowledge as to save the lives of my fellow countrymen.

Turned it up a notch. Fucking lol.

[bruhnaldo]

A good start would be to make full background checks mandatory for all guns and in all states, so a mentally ill headbanger can't just pick up a rifle from his local shop on ten minutes notice. You'd probably cut out a few deaths just through letting people cool down for the fortnight waiting period too.

There is a waiting period for some guns in a lot of places and it surely has done a lot to let people calm down in these instances of rage.

That doesn't solve the problem of illegal gun purchases, but it's surely a step in the right direction.

[bruhnaldo]

Turned it up a notch. Fucking lol.

Going from reasonable discourse to "you stupid American cunt" when you provided no real solution is "turning it up a notch" to me. Sorry my idioms aren't in line with yours I guess.

[phonics]

This is going to be a battle of the intellectual heavyweights.

[leedsrevolution]

This saying gets used to often around here but you're on the ropes. When can we expect to see you leave for the 50th time?. Anyway, I was of course drunk when I posted that so more fool you for even taking the time to acknowledge it.

[bruhnaldo]

No battle here, I'm more than happy to have a reasonable conversation about the solutions.

[bruhnaldo]

This saying gets used to often around here but you're on the ropes. When can we expect to see you leave for the 50th time?. Anyway, I was of course drunk when I posted that so more fool you for even taking the time to acknowledge it.

Soon enough, trust.

[John]

There's certainly a gun problem in this country. Sitting around pretentiously talking down to people because there aren't no easy solutions is, ironically, also not a solution to it.

That's all I was trying to say.

1) Crazy people will always do crazy shit. If you take away the guns, they'll mimic other shit they've seen.

2) Getting law-abiding citizens to turn in their guns is one thing, getting known criminals to do so is another, getting "underground" gun runners to stop running guns to gangs and whoever the fuck else is an entirely other.

3, 4, 5, 6, people getting shot over stupid shit is not something I want for my country.... but completely ignoring the points above to bang on about these incidents happening "bi-weekly", instead of acknowledging that yes, the people who want to hurt people will always find ways to do so, is a red herring at best.

I'll say it again then. A good start would be to make full background checks mandatory for all guns and in all states, so a mentally ill headbanger can't just pick up a rifle from his local shop on ten minutes notice. You'd probably cut out a few deaths just through letting people cool down for the fortnight waiting period too.

That people will always find a way to hurt eachother isn't a reason not to at least try to take away one of the most simple and effective ways of doing so, particularly since it's something with no use other than to hurt people. We'll not be so silly as to pretend Tyler is hunting elk with his handgun, so spare me that kernel of bullshit at least.


if 6 people is a "mass" in a country of 350 million people I mean idk what to tell you

Just to pop back to this for a second. The official definition of a 'mass shooting' is four or more people shot in a single incident. Not killed, just shot. So there is no argument over that point, and six people is 'mass'. If you define it otherwise, you're wrong.

[Pepe]

Quality meltdown.

[bruhnaldo]

I'll say it again then. A good start would be to make full background checks mandatory for all guns and in all states, so a mentally ill headbanger can't just pick up a rifle from his local shop on ten minutes notice. You'd probably cut out a few deaths just through letting people cool down for the fortnight waiting period too.

That people will always find a way to hurt eachother isn't a reason not to at least try to take away one of the most simple and effective ways of doing so, particularly since it's something with no use other than to hurt people. We'll not be so silly as to pretend Tyler is hunting elk with his handgun, so spare me that kernel of bullshit at least.



Just to pop back to this for a second. The official definition of a 'mass shooting' is four or more people shot in a single incident. Not killed, just shot. So there is no argument over that point, and six people is 'mass'. If you define it otherwise, you're wrong.

I initially responded before you added the last part, I did go back and respond to it though.

I appreciate you having a real discussion, though. I agree with your point, though. There should be something done to eliminate one of the easiest ways people hurt each other.

I just don't see how it could be done. Like I've said several times, there's not just the law-abiding citizens who we have to worry about.

I realize you guys went through this same shit in 1996 or whenever it was when that loony shot up that school. You enacted a gun ban and it has worked very well in the sense that gun violence is probably irrelevant.

At the same time, "violent crime" has also apparently spiked. Now, I'm not saying it's better to be shot than stabbed or vice versa, but there's always unintended consequences that come from these types of things.

Would I like to live in a world where gun violence doesn't exist? Of course! Hell, the grocery store right by my house had a shooting inside of it a few months back. It was gang related bullshit, but stray bullets have killed tons of people too!

It's all fucked up and I don't know how we truly fix it.

There's just so many guns. If even 80% of the population said "fine, here are my weapons Mr. Government. Thank you!" that still leaves millions of guns on the streets.

I'm not saying what you're suggesting isn't a bad practice, in theory it would be great, I just don't think it's practical to expect the cooperation necessary to make something like that work.

Though again, the background checks business, hey man, I have no problem with that whatsoever. I certainly agree it shouldn't be so easy to just walk in, grab a gun, and walk out. Now, like I mentioned previous, there are many cases where you buy a gun, have to wait a period of time, and then get it, but it's hardly nationwide and/or for every gun.

[Pepe]

Things that fuck me off: The term 'law-abiding citizen.'

[Pepe]

A guy opened fire at sitting congress members last week...

There's actually been 14 mass shootings in the last 10 days. Only 2 in Chicago (although I guess you can throw the St. Louis one in if you really want)

http://i.imgur.com/XmBrXj6.png

I live in University City. It could have been me. Really makes you think.

[bruhnaldo]

Things that fuck me off: The term 'law-abiding citizen.'

Well what term should I use so you can focus on the point, Pepe? I really don't know how else to describe one who would follow the law simply because it is the law.

[Pepe]

James Holmes was a 'law abiding citizen' until that night.

If guns were banned, by definition you could only be a 'law abiding citizen' if you turned in all of your guns.

[bruhnaldo]

If guns were banned, by definition you could only be a 'law abiding citizen' if you turned in all of your guns.

Exactly?

[Pepe]

As for your 'it's hard' argument:

1. No shit, of course it is.
2. I said the exact same thing a page or two ago, before your meltdown.

[Disco]

Phonics can you bully him off the board again please.

Yet another moron american who won't accept anything less than a gun strategy that offers total overnight success without annoying anyone and also can't think logically for two seconds in a row.

[bruhnaldo]

So you agree with me. Awesome.

I'm sorry that when people say stupid shit to me I respond right back to them. I will "meltdown" every time, I don't give a fuck.

[bruhnaldo]

Phonics can you bully him off the board again please.

Yet another moron american who won't accept anything less than a gun strategy that offers total overnight success without annoying anyone and also can't think logically for two seconds in a row.

No one except John has provided any strategy whatsoever but keep up the fine work, dipshit.

[Pepe]

I'm sorry that when people say stupid shit to me I respond right back to them. I will "meltdown" every time, I don't give a fuck.

Do keep on. It is entertaining.

[bruhnaldo]

I like how a "meltdown" is basically defending yourself from some dickhead calling you a stupid cunt without actually providing anything remotely insightful to the discussion.

I also like how "bullying off the board" is me choosing not to post here because I called Marine Le Pen's niece her daughter and some asshole changed a thread title to "Bruhnaldo's incompetence" over such a simple mistake.

As if I should just be fine with either instance.

[John]

I just don't see how it could be done. Like I've said several times, there's not just the law-abiding citizens who we have to worry about.

I realize you guys went through this same shit in 1996 or whenever it was when that loony shot up that school. You enacted a gun ban and it has worked very well in the sense that gun violence is probably irrelevant.

It's all fucked up and I don't know how we truly fix it.

I'm not saying what you're suggesting isn't a bad practice, in theory it would be great, I just don't think it's practical to expect the cooperation necessary to make something like that work.

Though again, the background checks business, hey man, I have no problem with that whatsoever. I certainly agree it shouldn't be so easy to just walk in, grab a gun, and walk out. Now, like I mentioned previous, there are many cases where you buy a gun, have to wait a period of time, and then get it, but it's hardly nationwide and/or for every gun.

It's not our place to know how to fix it, that's down to the legislators and LAW ENFORCEMENT, SIR. And you have said that several times, despite it being a complete non point in the first place. We're talking about gun violence, do you think we're all so stupid as to think the problem is those who aren't shooting people?

It took one headbanger to shoot up a school and we decided, as a nation, that guns were for the bin. That's why we look at a nation with several school shootings a year and wonder why it isn't doing anything at all, let alone putting up a united front on the issue.

Background checks are the only thing I've suggested, so I'm not sure what it is you think I'm expecting impractical cooperation for.

[John]

I like how a "meltdown" is basically defending yourself from some dickhead calling you a stupid cunt without actually providing anything remotely insightful to the discussion.

I also like how "bullying off the board" is me choosing not to post here because I called Marine Le Pen's niece her daughter and some asshole changed a thread title to "Bruhnaldo's incompetence" over such a simple mistake.

As if I should just be fine with either instance.

Going tonto over that thread title was you being unable to take a joke and flouncing off. That was a genuine meltdown. I changed the thread title, by the way.

[bruhnaldo]

We're talking about gun violence, do you think we're all so stupid as to think the problem is those who aren't shooting people?

When the only solution is "ban the guns!" one has to assume the problem that inspired such a solution is those who would actually be bothered by a gun ban, yes.

It took one headbanger to shoot up a school and we decided, as a nation, that guns were for the bin. That's why we look at a nation with several school shootings a year and wonder why it isn't doing anything at all, let alone putting up a united front on the issue.

Background checks are the only thing I've suggested, so I'm not sure what it is you think I'm expecting impractical cooperation for.


"several school shootings a year" is interesting. I must have missed when any of them happened in the past 5 years given Sandy Hook was the last. I understand it seems odd, but again, I contest because it's one thing to ban guns in a small island country and an entire other to ban them in one like America. The lack of cooperation comes in there,
where law abiding citizens would give up their guns, sure, but the criminals and crazies would just stockpile. Others who were #LawAbidingCitizens before could even be tempted to hoard their guns and sell them on the proverbial black market for 500% mark-up on the original price. Where there is potential for greed there is corruption. All unintended circumstances that must be considered.


Thank you for having a reasonable discussion regardless of how stupid you may feel my points are.

[John]

There was one a couple of months ago, and I definitely remember another one in a community college or somesuch much more recently than Sandy Hook. And those are just the ones we hear about on our little island.

[Pepe]

Bruh, you might enjoy this:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/06/20/the-militarized-police-state-opens-fire/

[bruhnaldo]

I didn't mean "small island" as an offense. I'm just saying it's a more densely populated area where these types of measures can be better regulated and enforced.

Though I guess one could counter by saying these types of incidents generally occur in densely populated areas and there's no real need to worry about Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, the midwest in general, where houses are miles apart with dozens of rifles between them.

[leedsrevolution]

I like how a "meltdown" is basically defending yourself from some dickhead calling you a stupid cunt without actually providing anything remotely insightful to the discussion.

I also like how "bullying off the board" is me choosing not to post here because I called Marine Le Pen's niece her daughter and some asshole changed a thread title to "Bruhnaldo's incompetence" over such a simple mistake.

As if I should just be fine with either instance.

Stop being so prescious and just be thankful I didn't call you a fat stupid cunt.

[John]

I must have missed when any of them happened in the past 5 years given Sandy Hook was the last.

You did indeed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-shooting-umpqua-community-college.html

Ten dead, less than two years ago.

[bruhnaldo]

Bruh, you might enjoy this:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/06/20/the-militarized-police-state-opens-fire/

Haven't read yet but the police in this country is also a huge problem. We honestly have so much shit going on here it's unbelievable :(

[bruhnaldo]

Stop being so prescious and just be thankful I didn't call you a fat stupid cunt.

It's not the words that bother me it's the idea that you think you're so above reasonable discussion that you have to resort to this childish bullshit instead of continuing the level-headed tone we'd been talking in. We were at a 3 and you took it to a 10 just because you're an anonymous dickhead on the internet who can get away with it.

You being drunk or not doesn't really matter to me. I was being respectful and then you took it to that level without offering anything to the discussion to give you the right to be so crass.

I don't have to put up with that shit and I won't. Call it a meltdown if you want. Doesn't bother me in the slightest.

[bruhnaldo]

You did indeed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-shooting-umpqua-community-college.html

Ten dead, less than two years ago.

Fair enough but also not exactly "several a year" either I'd contend.

[leedsrevolution]

Do you want me to say sorry, babes.