The yankee mass shootings thread

[Bartholomert]

Surely you need to show ID so it's at least registered to you? No?

Why should there be a government registry of gun ownership, that's fucking madness.

[Charlie]

Do you own a gun Mert?

[Lewis]

Why would he shoot up an organic cafe? Those are his people.

Exactly. Take that, mom and dad.

[Bartholomert]

Do you own a gun Mert?

I've answered this a number of times. My school does not allow gun ownership on campus, therefore I temporarily do not own any guns. I have shot many and will own numerous once I have graduated.

[John Arne]

Why should there be a government registry of gun ownership, that's fucking madness.

Give your fucking head a wobble, son.

[Magic]

BREAKING: Somebody described as 'looking like a right little div' has opened fire at an organic cafe in Salt Lake City, Utah, before turning the gun on his badly-dressed self. There are no reports of others being killed or wounded.

Was probably randomlegend proving a point to me.

[Byron]

Why should there be a government registry of gun ownership, that's fucking madness.

Just to flip this, could you tell me what would be fundamentally wrong with a database showing who owns what guns?

[Mellberg]

Remember seeing that Elliot Rodgers video and thinking this is probably what mert is like. No wonder he likes guns and I wonder what his kill count will be?

[Bartholomert]

Just to flip this, could you tell me what would be fundamentally wrong with a database showing who owns what guns?

Gross violation of privacy, and creating an easier pathway for gun confiscation/criminalization.


Remember seeing that Elliot Rodgers video and thinking this is probably what mert is like. No wonder he likes guns and I wonder what his kill count will be?

Slight difference; I am not severely depressed and have no issues finding female companionship.

[John Arne]

Gross violation of privacy, and creating an easier pathway for gun confiscation/criminalization.

What a bizarre reason.
The Government already know where you live, where you work and who your family is - they have a record of the car you drive (hello drivers license), and the overseas travel you take (hi Mr Passport) amongst a myriad of other data currently being collated. The only thing a ownership database will do is increase the ability to find criminals quicker, and hopefully deter anyone thinking of committing a crime in the first place.

You're a nutjob.

[Bartholomert]

What a bizarre reason.
The Government already know where you live, where you work and who your family is - they have a record of the car you drive (hello drivers license), and the overseas travel you take (hi Mr Passport) amongst a myriad of other data currently being collated. The only thing a ownership database will do is increase the ability to find criminals quicker, and hopefully deter anyone thinking of committing a crime in the first place.

You're a nutjob.

You are 100% deluded if you think a gun database would deter any criminals. Also not sure you're aware of this but guns can already be traced back to owners after a crime has been committed through their serial number. Regardless, having such a database would be entirely unfeasible as criminals would simply obtain false identification or give false information. And that's the point, if the government did have a database and they wanted to criminalize gun ownership, confiscation would become far easier.

So in summary:

1. Not a detterent to commit crime as criminals would use stolen guns or evade the system in other ways such as by providing false information while buying guns
2. Totally unfeasible in a nation with 300 million firearms
3. Less invasive tracking systems already exist
4. A gross violation of privacy and step towards easier confiscation of guns

You're the nutjob who apparently doesn't care about liberty or rational thought.

[John Arne]

10th most homicides by firearms in the world. 1st in the developed countries.

LIBERTY!!!

[Bartholomert]

10th most homicides by firearms in the world. 1st in the developed countries.

LIBERTY!!!

I hope you're not stupid enough to take that figure at face value, you would want to look at per capita homicides not simply the total number.

Anyways a gun registration system would do absolutely nothing to alleviate that issue. Let me know when you come up with an actual logical rebuttal that convincingly argues otherwise.

Don't forget, White Americans are subject to about the same level of very low gun violence as the 'civilized' Western European countries. It is the urban enclaves with ongoing gang warfare that inflates the figures.

[John Arne]

That is per capita, numbnuts.

As for the comments about race... I'm out.

[Boydy]

I hope you're not stupid enough to take that figure at face value, you would want to look at per capita homicides not simply the total number.

Anyways a gun registration system would do absolutely nothing to alleviate that issue. Let me know when you come up with an actual logical rebuttal that convincingly argues otherwise.

Don't forget, White Americans are subject to about the same level of very low gun violence as the 'civilized' Western European countries. It is the urban enclaves with ongoing gang warfare that inflates the figures.

How would you alleviate the high gun crime in urban enclaves?

Genuine question so I'd appreciate a genuine answer instead of some 'lol libtard' nonsense.

[Davgooner]

The numbers in support of these proposals, even within the NRA, are massive. From the way the media cover it you'd presume it was split down the middle.

[ItalAussie]

Don't forget, White Americans are subject to about the same level of very low gun violence as the 'civilized' Western European countries. It is the urban enclaves with ongoing gang warfare that inflates the figures.
I've seen that stated, but I've never seen figures to back it up. Honest question: could you support that?

The closest I can come is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state

When you sort per capita deaths by state, it doesn't seem to support your point. Maryland is high, and Michigan just cracks the top ten. But if what you're saying is true regarding centers of urban development, I wouldn't expect Louisiana and Missouri to round out the top three. Let alone South Carolina and Delaware at five and six.

[Lewis]

Gun Murder States (blackest state):

1. District of Colombia (not a state but very, very black)
2. Louisiana (2nd blackest state)
3. Missouri (19th)
4, Maryland (4th)
5. South Carolina (5th)
6. Delaware (8th)
7. Michigan (16th)
8. Mississippi (1st)
9. Florida (11th)
10. Georgia (3rd)

Missouri and Michigan look like the outliers, but their blackness is concentrated in death hubs like St. Louis and Detroit.

[Magic]

Remember when I was championing racial issues on the old boards and posted FACTS that showed a direct correlation between gun crime and high ethnic populations?

[John Arne]

Surely everywhere is a high ethnic population :)

[Lewis]

682904579277590528

It's a small sample, but you get the point. What sets the Finns off?

[Bartholomert]

The numbers in support of these proposals, even within the NRA, are massive. From the way the media cover it you'd presume it was split down the middle.

Which proposals? Support for guns rights is generally higher than its been for decades.

[Bartholomert]

I've seen that stated, but I've never seen figures to back it up. Honest question: could you support that?

The closest I can come is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state

When you sort per capita deaths by state, it doesn't seem to support your point. Maryland is high, and Michigan just cracks the top ten. But if what you're saying is true regarding centers of urban development, I wouldn't expect Louisiana and Missouri to round out the top three. Let alone South Carolina and Delaware at five and six.

Do you need further evidence or has Lewis done enough?

[ItalAussie]

Do you need further evidence or has Lewis done enough?

So you're using "urban" as racial shorthand for black?

And Lewis' numbers still have white American deaths as being 25% higher than the highest Western European nation (Finland). 47% higher than Belgium. 78% higher than Norway. 127% higher than the UK and France (and Australia). 177% higher than Sweden, Italy and the Netherlands (and New Zealand). So actually, even the best figure there is still dramatically worse than developed Western European nations.

[Jimmy Floyd]

In Finland it's dark all the time, cold all the time, and nothing happens. They also have the highest drinking and suicide rates I believe.

[Offshore Toon]

Not quite there for drinking.

http://www.itv.com/news/channel/update/2015-11-17/more-needs-to-be-done-to-tackle-alcohol-problems-in-jersey/

[ItalAussie]

I've been drinking with Finns and, anecdotally at least, they put everyone else I've ever drunk with to shame. They drink like it's their last night on Earth. And not in the party way - in the "I'm going to ingest as much vodka as is available, with a minimum of frivolity or fuss." And then they will.

That said, two of my Finnish friends are among the most lovely and cheerful people I have ever met. So I guess you just can't pick 'em.

[Shindig]

I'd rather know what the deal is with Lithuania.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Let me introduce you all to the Triangle of Doom.

http://i.imgur.com/EcnJrtz.png

Nothing other than total, abject misery has ever happened inside the Triangle of Doom. The peoples within always rank ridiculously high up on every misery measure there is. Auschwitz and Stalingrad are both in there, as are most of the pogroms and a lot of darkness and suicide and drunkenness and death.

EDIT: Stalingrad is further south actually, but I'm not drawing it again.

[Offshore Toon]

Might as well make it the Diamond of Doom and include the Middle East.

[Bartholomert]

So you're using "urban" as racial shorthand for black?

And Lewis' numbers still have white American deaths as being 25% higher than the highest Western European nation (Finland). 47% higher than Belgium. 78% higher than Norway. 127% higher than the UK and France (and Australia). 177% higher than Sweden, Italy and the Netherlands (and New Zealand). So actually, even the best figure there is still dramatically worse than developed Western European nations.

Those nations don't have black on white crime.

And anyways it's 'close enough' that the 1 extra death per 100,000 isn't really too high of a cost for the added liberty enjoyed by American citizens.

[ItalAussie]

Hard to argue. Belarus goes under the radar on this stuff, but it's a terrible place to be at the moment. Repressive absolute dictatorship.

EDIT: At Jimmy

[Lewis]

It's basically anything touched by Russia. Poland still votes almost perfectly in accordance with the 1914 German/Russian border.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Hard to argue. Belarus goes under the radar on this stuff, but it's a terrible place to be at the moment. Repressive absolute dictatorship.

EDIT: At Jimmy

I centred my map by whacking 'Minsk' into google.

[mugbull]

Yo ital, why do you think there are a disproprotionately high number of math geniuses from these areas? Belarus had the IMO winner a couole years back, all the best (non-asian) math students here are from Bulgaria or Russia or Belarus. Half the theorems you learn have Russian names. Is it just all the social inept kids who have no Western distractions and are forced to devote their lives to solving proofs?

[Bartholomert]

Yo ital, why do you think there are a disproprotionately high number of math geniuses from these areas? Belarus had the IMO winner a couole years back, all the best (non-asian) math students here are from Bulgaria or Russia or Belarus. Half the theorems you learn have Russian names. Is it just all the social inept kids who have no Western distractions and are forced to devote their lives to solving proofs?

Leftover non-assimilated into American culture pure Ashkanazi Jew genetics IMO

[Jimmy Floyd]

Chess as well. And musical geniuses. It leads to intensity and massive focus on one (indoor) thing.

There's a reason why Spain has loads of great footballers and fuck all great composers.

[ItalAussie]

Yo ital, why do you think there are a disproprotionately high number of math geniuses from these areas? Belarus had the IMO winner a couole years back, all the best (non-asian) math students here are from Bulgaria or Russia or Belarus. Half the theorems you learn have Russian names. Is it just all the social inept kids who have no Western distractions and are forced to devote their lives to solving proofs?

There was a massive intensity in Russian mathematics and science during the Cold War. One of my old professors brought in their high school texts, and it was seriously advanced stuff. They pushed them hard from the get-go.

Conflict spurs on development, because it demands technological and intellectual progress. It's the same reason that the Dutch intellectual golden era coincided almost perfectly with the phase of their history where they were at war with England, and that physics experienced its greatest progress for 400 years in the first half of the 20th century.

Couple that with the rigour on which Russian mathematics is built (different educational traditions "do" mathematics in different ways, and that can lend itself to strengths and weaknesses in different areas - nobody beats the French for analysis, the Japanese are right at the front when it comes to algebraic geometry, etc.), and they spent most of the 60s and 70s being outrageously productive. I live in constant concern that everything I've done has already been done by some obscure Russian mathematician in the '70s and just hasn't been translated yet.

EDIT: It's also interesting how it changes over time. Right now, you'd say that the French lead the way in modern pure mathematics, and by a fairly comfortable margin. It's probably to do with the fact that their mathematical tradition emphasizes rigour and abstraction (due to the Bourbaki group, and its influence on French mathematical education), which become far more important than things like intuition or visualization when you get to the cutting edges of the field.

[Lewis]

Spain, not us; but our development of a honking great navy to bash the Dutch with helped to drive our rise by hoovering up ideas and material.

I wonder how much the Soviet emphasis on maths/science/number things was also down to the restrictions they placed on word things. You were hardly at liberty to publish whatever you liked in the humanities/social sciences, lest it fall foul of the official government line on whatever you were doing, so maybe, as well as wanting rockets, they pushed the other fields as a 'safer' outlet for intelligent people.

[ItalAussie]

They did have scientific purges as well. Lysenko came down heavily on anyone pushing evolutionary biology/genetics, in favour of a Lamarkian approach. Lysenko did such a degree of damage to Soviet biology that it wasn't really repaired for over three decades. He also interfered with the rest of the scientific establishment - there are a number of physicists who attracted his ire. But still, it's true that it wasn't nearly as bad as the arts and social sciences.

EDIT: My mistake on the Spain/England thing too. I've never looked too closely at Dutch military history. As, I suspect, has anyone not Dutch. :D

[Boydy]

Hard to argue. Belarus goes under the radar on this stuff, but it's a terrible place to be at the moment. Repressive absolute dictatorship.

EDIT: At Jimmy

It's not that bad.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Are you being paid to say that?

[Boydy]

No. My best mate has family out there and has been out a couple of times. You can't go out protesting against the government in the streets but it really isn't that bad.

[Byron]

So you can't show peaceful dissent?

Yup sounds like a perfectly democratic country.

[John Arne]

Democracy is overrated.

[Boydy]

So you can't show peaceful dissent?

Yup sounds like a perfectly democratic country.

I didn't say it was perfectly democratic.

Ital said it was a terrible place to be. I said it wasn't that bad. In an all-round sense. People have the things they need - jobs, houses etc. The not being able to protest is a downside obviously but it's not the totalitsrian hellhole it was being painted as.

[Davgooner]

It's worth noting that those figures wheeled out above are only homicides. Also, I don't know how much you can tout 'added liberty' based around gun ownership. It's technically another right for citizens, but the society it creates is far more oppressive.

Also, Mert, you're a cunt.

[John Arne]

6 dead. Shooter in custody.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/21/michigan-shootings-multiple-deaths-in-kalamazoo-as-gunman-kills-randomly

[Byron]

https://gyazo.com/3d2dca7bc632b1b0b8f01ef75a68ae75.png

[John Arne]

7 confirmed now.

[Spoonsky]

My parents met there, long before the days of Uber and shotguns though.

[Pepe]

Was it ISIS inspired? If not then we don't care.

[phonics]

For those of us who would like to arm our police

702151533476126721

[Pepe]

Is that true? If so then that is fantastic. :D

[Disco]

Clearly we need to arm our journalists as well.

[John Arne]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/25/kansas-shooting-excel-industries-hesston-wichita

Kansas lawn-mower killer. Four dead, 20 injured. Shooter dead.

[Pepe]

Why do we need the phone records for the San Bernardino shooter but not for every other shooter?

[John Arne]

Can't they just have exhumed the body and used their fingers to unlock it?

[phonics]

It's an iPhone 5 so doesn't have it.

That Apple case is an absolute travesty. If the world isn't corrupt it'll be thrown out within 24 hours of going to court but I think this is the beginning of the end.

[John Arne]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/10/killed-injured-pittsburgh-shooting-allegheny-county


Police say five people have been shot dead in an “ambush-style attack” in suburban Pittsburgh and at least two gunmen are at large.

Allegheny County police said four women and a man were killed late on Wednesday during a backyard party in the borough of Wilkinsburg. At least three others are in hospital, where two men are in critical condition and one woman is stable.

Police said people scrambled toward the house as bullets began flying. Four of the victims were found dead on the back porch. The other died at a hospital.

At least two suspects fled on foot. No suspects are in custody and a motive was not immediately known.

[niko_cee]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/pro-gun-mum-is-shot-by-4-year-old-after-teaching-085518113.html

It's bad that I was a little disappointed she hadn't died, isn't it?

[Pepe]

I would give her a shot.

[Byron]

If only she was armed, she would have been able to defend herself.

[John Arne]

She should have tazered the little cunt.

[Magic]

https://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/2016/03/29/urine-close-still-banned-three-months-postman-slipped/

An update on the FBI/Apple case. Just goes to show they can do anything.

[John]

https://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/2016/03/29/urine-close-still-banned-three-months-postman-slipped/

An update on the FBI/Apple case. Just goes to show they can do anything.

Hell of an update.

[Magic]

I basically posted it to indulge phonics' tin hat syndrome.

[randomlegend]

You might want to check what it is you posted, Magic.

[Magic]

Oh for fuck's sake. :D

EDIT: Here's the correct one: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-35914195

#Saint

[Ian]

https://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/2016/03/29/urine-close-still-banned-three-months-postman-slipped/

An update on the FBI/Apple case. Just goes to show they can do anything.

Hah. :D

[Pepe]

Magic. :D

[Spikey M]

https://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/2016/03/29/urine-close-still-banned-three-months-postman-slipped/

An update on the FBI/Apple case. Just goes to show they can do anything.

This is better than the actual story tbh.

[Gray Fox]

Man walks into Orlando gay bar with handgun and an assault rifle. Opens fire on the crowd, takes hostages when the police show up. Then starts again so the SWAT team take him out.

20 dead so far with over 40 hospitalized.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/36510272

[Lee]

Calling it an act of terrorism and saying the bloke seemed to like a bit of radical islam.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Fucking hell, 50 confirmed dead-

http://news.sky.com/story/1710850/fifty-dead-in-orlando-nightclub-shooting

[Magic]

Confirmed terrorist.

[Kikó]

Great for Trump.

[GS]

There's no arguing with too many Americans on the second amendment, so unfortunately this is just what happens. Grim.

[Magic]

This was a terrorist thing though, can you argue that?

[GS]

One imagines it would be quite difficult for him to proceed with the terrorism if he couldn't just pop down to Walmart to buy a gun with the weekly shop.

[Magic]

Really? Well it happened in France rather easily multiple times, don't recall them having the second amendment.

[Lee]

They're saying he wasn't on a terrorist watchlist.

Sounds more like a nutter. Apparently his dad is telling the media that "he got very angry at seeing two gay men kissing in public". Bit of an overreaction mate.

[Raoul Duke]

Religion + access to military weaponry = problems?

Surprising news.

[Lee]

Really? Well it happened in France rather easily multiple times, don't recall them having the second amendment.

It's fair to say that head cases going about shooting people, whatever their motive, is a bit more of an exception in Europe where you can't pop down to the supermarket to buy an assualt rifle.

Mert's having a shit day. He's watching his national team play like a bunch of feminised westerners and he'll get back to find one of his islamic brothers has taken advantage of his American freedoms.

[Lewis]

Great for Trump.

This seems to be the main concern on Twitter.

[Disco]

They're saying he wasn't on a terrorist watchlist.

Sounds more like a nutter. Apparently his dad is telling the media that "he got very angry at seeing two gay men kissing in public". Bit of an overreaction mate.

If I was a betting man I'd say that's because he's not allowed to, classic repression right there.

[GS]

Really? Well it happened in France rather easily multiple times, don't recall them having the second amendment.

It would be less likely to happen in Europe if the Schengen zone wasn't a massive sieve through which terrorists and weapons can seep and then move freely across internal borders, yes.

[Disco]

Really? Well it happened in France rather easily multiple times, don't recall them having the second amendment.

There's a difference between organised groups bringing illegal weapons into the country and it being possible to legitimately pop down to Woolies for some pick n mix and an AK.

[Gray Fox]

50? :serious:

[Pepe]

I guess since the shooter was Muslim we need to care about this shooting, as opposed to all the ones done by non-Muslims, which go under the 'shit happens' category.

[elth]

Even in France you need to spend a bit of time organising yourself the right contacts to get weapons, you can't just pop into Carrefour and come home with an AR-15 and a case of ammo.

[Vim]

I guess since the shooter was Muslim we need to care about this shooting, as opposed to all the ones done by non-Muslims, which go under the 'shit happens' category.

50 people were killed.

[GS]

Even in France you need to spend a bit of time organising yourself the right contacts to get weapons, you can't just pop into Carrefour and come home with an AR-15 and a case of ammo.

This is it. The IRA had significant 'military' capacity, but that's because it was a highly organised operation with support from states such as Libya. Gaddafi supplied weaponry, including Semtex. The supply chain is highly vulnerable to intelligence, and any sort of 'bust' rendered some of the cells 'militarily impotent'.

There's a clear difference between organised terrorism like Paris (and IRA, ETA etc.) and this sort of nutter.

[GS]

I guess since the shooter was Muslim we need to care about this shooting, as opposed to all the ones done by non-Muslims, which go under the 'shit happens' category.

That the shooter is a Muslim is largely irrelevant in the context of fifty dead, I suspect. It's the worst atrocity in America since 9/11.

[Pepe]

Fourteen were killed in that San Bernardino shooting, which admittedly is more that the nine that were killed in the Charleston church one. The difference in reaction was massive. Not saying that the current events are not a tragedy, just pointing out that there is a big double standard in the way this all too common tragedies in the US are treated based on the perpetrator, which is why they'll never even get close to trying to fix the issue.

[Pepe]

That the shooter is a Muslim is largely irrelevant in the context of fifty dead, I suspect. It's the worst atrocity in America since 9/11.

Wait until the 'proposed solutions' start popping up, then we'll see whether it is relevant or not.

[GS]

Fourteen were killed in that San Bernardino shooting, which admittedly is more that the nine that were killed in the Charleston church one. The difference in reaction was massive. Not saying that the current events are not a tragedy, just pointing out that there is a big double standard in the way this all too common tragedies in the US are treated based on the perpetrator, which is why they'll never even get close to trying to fix the issue.

The shooter becomes an issue because people look for reasons why they did it. It's not really a double standard - a self-declared 'follower' of Islamic State / someone who claims they were 'inspired' by them is a bigger story than 'white nutter shoots blacks'. The former is a relatively new phenomenon in America and thus carries more coverage given the supposed link between this sort of thing and American foreign policy. I think most just assume the latter sort of event happens because nutters can buy guns.

[GS]

Wait until the 'proposed solutions' start popping up, then we'll see whether it is relevant or not.

I mean in terms of the coverage this particular shooting event is going to receive. There's fifty people dead, so the shooter's motives are going to be relentlessly raked over in the media. It would get the same level of coverage (direction is a different matter) regardless.

I do find American media coverage to be uncomfortably macabre in events such as this. I don't really understand why 'local law enforcement' are required to give an on the spot briefing to the press where they stand there and say 'local law enforcement' a lot.

[Disco]

Do we need a countdown until some asshat says they deserved it for being gay? It's America so I suspect it won't be long.

[Boydy]

Does anyone else find GS's 'this is it' post opener really irritating?

[Pepe]

The shooter becomes an issue because people look for reasons why they did it. It's not really a double standard - a self-declared 'follower' of Islamic State / someone who claims they were 'inspired' by them is a bigger story than 'white nutter shoots blacks'. The former is a relatively new phenomenon in America and thus carries more coverage given the supposed link between this sort of thing and American foreign policy. I think most just assume the latter sort of event happens because nutters can buy guns.

That is exactly the issue right there. Billions are spent to 'stop' the former, while the latter, which is far more common, is just thrown under the 'shit happens' category.

[GS]

Does anyone else find GS's 'this is it' post opener really irritating?

It's not like you to moan. Is everything okay?

[Pepe]

I don't give a shit about 'media coverage,' I don't really follow the media. I give a shit about what politicians do/say in response. Jeb Bush saying 'well there's nothing we can do' after one shooting and then the Republican debate after San Bernardino focusing 100% on keeping all arabs out is what I give a shit about.

Anyways, I've said my part. Feel free to move on. Very sad event regardless of motive/response/whatever.

[Lee]

Listen Ian and Gerry, let's not start the sectarian sparring just as your lads are about to kick off in a major championship.

[John]

Do we need a countdown until some asshat says they deserved it for being gay? It's America so I suspect it won't be long.

It's been more than half an hour since it happened so that ship will have sailed.

People getting preemptively annoyed over the direction the coverage might take is orders of magnitude more annoying than the coverage itself devoting an extra thirty seconds to talking about his religious background.

[Boydy]

We're both prods.

[Davgooner]

Lots of Republicans feeling pretty conflicted about this I'd imagine.

What a shithole.

[GS]

That is exactly the issue right there. Billions are spent to 'stop' the former, while the latter, which is far more common, is just thrown under the 'shit happens' category.

I don't disagree with your point, by the way. I just think it's inevitable that the coverage will be skewed and I can see why. They believe the former can be controlled if they take necessary steps, but the latter is a necessary evil for the second amendment to stand. I think it's insane, you think it's insane, most sensible people think it's insane, but America isn't yet ready (seemingly) to bin the second amendment.

[Lee]

We're both prods.

Don't ruin my shit crow-barred joke with your facts, for fuck's sake.

[Boydy]

Don't ruin my shit crow-barred joke with your facts, for fuck's sake.

:D

Sorry.

[GS]

Lots of Republicans feeling pretty conflicted about this I'd imagine.

What a shithole.

I'm sure many do, but the unfortunate reality is that the NRA wield huge influence and they all want to be elected again.

You couldn't live in America - it's a shit country, all things considered.

[Pepe]

I do think it is about much more than gun availability but I agree. What a country. :*)

[John]

That is exactly the issue right there. Billions are spent to 'stop' the former, while the latter, which is far more common, is just thrown under the 'shit happens' category.

The only way to stop the latter is to limit access to guns, which I think everyone needs to accept at this point America just isn't going to do. The former being a relatively new thing means that people will still see a hundred different ways they might be able to prevent it, but in thirty years' time if it's still happening once a month it'll likely be on the shit happens pile too.

[Pepe]

Cheesy chips, anyone?

[Bartholomert]

Well that's Trump elected.

Lesson to liberals: maybe time to put away with the 2nd Amendment phobia and put yourself in a position to defend yourselves. You don't see this shit happening at a Texas church; there's a reason for that.

[Bernanke]

Do we need a countdown until some asshat says they deserved it for being gay? It's America so I suspect it won't be long.

Ben Carson practically did on Fox.

[Bernanke]

http://i.imgur.com/DAIg5VN.png

This twitter-account is a goldmine.

[Lewis]

America has lots of guns and lots of homophobes; but nobody has ever taken it upon themselves to shoot fifty people in a gay bar. I don't think guns are necessarily the issue.

[John]

Lesson to liberals: maybe time to put away with the 2nd Amendment phobia and put yourself in a position to defend yourselves. You don't see this shit happening at a Texas church; there's a reason for that.

Larry Ashbrook.

Also, this happened in a nightclub. Are there nightclubs anywhere in America where the patrons are allowed to carry?

[Pepe]

America has lots of guns and lots of homophobes; but nobody has ever taken it upon themselves to shoot fifty people in a gay bar. I don't think guns are necessarily the issue.

True. You do have to wonder whether it would've happened without the easy access, but they are, ultimately, so rare events that it is really hard to tell.

The question is why nobody bothers with this type of shit anywhere else. Can't be just guns, surely? Guns are not legal in Mexico but it would be piss easy to get one.

[Magic]

Pepe's desperate attempts in this thread to basically shift the blame on to white people is laughable.

[Pepe]

Yes, that is exactly what is going on. Glad you're having a good laugh mate.

[GS]

True. You do have to wonder whether it would've happened without the easy access, but they are, ultimately, so rare events that it is really hard to tell.

The question is why nobody bothers with this type of shit anywhere else. Can't be just guns, surely? Guns are not legal in Mexico but it would be piss easy to get one.

It's about access. The Mexicans are shit at preventing smuggling. The Americans let you buy it at Walmart. Neither is okay, and both are the largest contributing factor to this sort of event.

In the UK, gun access was drastically cut after Dunblane and it worked. It's not rocket science.

[Lee]

It's obviously the gays who are to blame. If those two blokes didn't kiss in public FFS.

[Davgooner]

Great day for the NRA and the industry it promotes. The usual post-shooting spike in sales, and a whole new demographic to scare into making themselves less safe.

[Disco]

It's about access. The Mexicans are shit at preventing smuggling. The Americans let you buy it at Walmart. Neither is okay, and both are the largest contributing factor to this sort of event.

In the UK, gun access was drastically cut after Dunblane and it worked. It's not rocket science.

And Australia, they are the perfect example of how it can work.

[Pepe]

It's about access. The Mexicans are shit at preventing smuggling. The Americans let you buy it at Walmart. Neither is okay, and both are the largest contributing factor to this sort of event.

Why doesn't it happen in Mexico then?

EDIT: Worth noting that available as they might be, no one is carrying around a gun just for lulz in Mexico as they do here.

[Magic]

Yes, that is exactly what is going on. Glad you're having a good laugh mate.

Nothing to see here, just more shit happens.

[Lewis]

We never really had any mass shootings before Dunblane, but we've had Raoul Moat and Derrick Bird in recent years, and the overall firearm death rate has barely changed. We're not a great case study for gun control.

The Americans have too many mentals. I don't know whether their healthcare system and society generally (Beta Uprising) contributes, but where guns are the issue is that we don't have the easy out of gun rampages, since there is surely some cycle there, as if it's the 'done thing' if you're off your head.

[GS]

Why doesn't it happen in Mexico then?

Mexico isn't a safe country.

[Disco]

We never really had any mass shootings before Dunblane, but we've had Raoul Moat and Derrick Bird in recent years, and the overall firearm death rate has barely changed. We're not a great case study for gun control.

The Americans have too many mentals. I don't know whether their healthcare system and society generally (Beta Uprising) contributes, but where guns are the issue is that we don't have the easy out of gun rampages, since there is surely some cycle there, as if it's the 'done thing' if you're off your head.

There was Hungerford about 10 years earlier.

[Lewis]

I forgot him. It was still rare that we had them, and we've had them since.

[Disco]

Of course, you can't ban people from being unhinged, but I think it makes a difference that you can no longer get your hands on a firearm that takes more than a couple of rounds at a time.

[Bartholomert]

And Australia, they are the perfect example of how it can work.

Both are fucking islands. The example doesn't apply to the US.

In the US the state with the lowest gun crime rate (Wyoming) has one of the highest gun ownership rates. It. Is. Not. Guns.

[Lofty]

Yeah it's not guns... I'm sure he could've achieved the same body count with a pen knife mate.

[Disco]

Yes I suppose the amount of coastline would make a difference.

[Bartholomert]

Yeah it's not guns... I'm sure he could've achieved the same body count with a pen knife mate.

He would still be able to purchase a gun if it was legal or if it wasn't legal.

[Disco]

It's pointless even bothering when you can post that kind of rubbish, at least Harold put some effort in.

[7om]

Some politician in Texas posted a bible quote claiming men reap what they sow. Classy.

What I've always said is just how normal this shit has become here. Yeah it will make the news for a few days, Obama will do his karaoke but after that it's back to status quo. Nothing is ever considered on anything more than a very superficial level with guns. It gets forgotten very quickly.

Two guys were shot outside a shopping center two minutes from me a few months back. Didn't even make the local news.

[Magic]

Except this is totally different.

[Bartholomert]

It's pointless even bothering when you can post that kind of rubbish, at least Harold put some effort in.

Gun crime rate in America, if you take out Blacks (who are concentrated in a few urban enclaves), is roughly equivalent to Belgium. Cities / states in America with the highest gun ownership often have very low crime (I'm at a bar so don't have access to the exact statistics; I'm happy to play this game in a few hours). It's not guns. If you think that guns somehow translate to more crime, you are an ignorant moron who refuses to accept the exhaustive empirical evidence to the contrary.

[7om]

Except this is totally different.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Magic]

It is though. Feel free to elaborate how it's the same as two blokes getting killed in an argument or whatever it was though.

[John]

Gun crime rate in America, if you take out Blacks (who are concentrated in a few urban enclaves), is roughly equivalent to Belgium. Cities / states in America with the highest gun ownership often have very low crime (I'm at a bar so don't have access to the exact statistics; I'm happy to play this game in a few hours). It's not guns. If you think that guns somehow translate to more crime, you are an ignorant moron who refuses to accept the exhaustive empirical evidence to the contrary.

Possession of a gun is the only way some twonk is walking into a room and killing fifty people though, so whatever the statistics say about crime in general it's worth having a conversation about limiting access.

Since It. Is. Not. Guns. what do you think is behind America having a hundred times as many mass shootings as the rest of the world combined?


It is though. Feel free to elaborate how it's the same as two blokes getting killed in an argument or whatever it was though.

He didn't say it was the same. You're a constant embarrassment to yourself, but you're not that stupid.

[Magic]

Black on black gun crime.

[Bartholomert]

Possession of a gun is the only way some twonk is walking into a room and killing fifty people though, so whatever the statistics say about crime in general it's worth having a conversation about limiting access.

Since It. Is. Not. Guns. what do you think is behind America having a hundred times as many mass shootings as the rest of the world combined?

If someone is nuts and determined enough to kill 50 people, he's getting that gun regardless. The only way to stop him from killing 50, is for someone else with a gun to stop him.

America doesn't have 100 times more mass shootings than the rest of the world, if I'm not mistaken America ranks something like 110~ of all countries in gun crime.

America doesn't have a gun crime problem. Certain self-contained groups have a gun crime problem.

[Magic]

Possession of a gun is the only way some twonk is walking into a room and killing fifty people though, so whatever the statistics say about crime in general it's worth having a conversation about limiting access.

Since It. Is. Not. Guns. what do you think is behind America having a hundred times as many mass shootings as the rest of the world combined?



He didn't say it was the same. You're a constant embarrassment to yourself, but you're not that stupid.

He did. How normal Islamic terrorists murdering 50 people is and how it'll only get like one day in the middle of a newspaper just like two blokes killing themselves outside of a 7-11.

[Danny]

Possession of a gun is the only way some twonk is walking into a room and killing fifty people though, so whatever the statistics say about crime in general it's worth having a conversation about limiting access.

Since It. Is. Not. Guns. what do you think is behind America having a hundred times as many mass shootings as the rest of the world combined?



He didn't say it was the same. You're a constant embarrassment to yourself, but you're not that stupid.

Something something liberals. Clearly.

[Disco]

Gun crime rate in America, if you take out Blacks (who are concentrated in a few urban enclaves), is roughly equivalent to Belgium. Cities / states in America with the highest gun ownership often have very low crime (I'm at a bar so don't have access to the exact statistics; I'm happy to play this game in a few hours). It's not guns. If you think that guns somehow translate to more crime, you are an ignorant moron who refuses to accept the exhaustive empirical evidence to the contrary.

Stats are stats, well done. Whatever societal issues make people want to go out and kill lots of other people are exacerbated by the proliferation and ease of access to very effective weapons. If no-one can work out why they do it then it is sensible to limit access to the most effective weapons many of which don't have any civilian applications anyway (and don't say hunting, if you can't hunt with a shotgun or a simple bolt action rifle then you're rubbish at hunting). You could even give them all back afterwards if you do end up working it out. Also, the argument that people can still get hold of illegal things is laughable. I'd imagine someone within a short drive of my house could sell me some great drugs but to equate finding them with popping to a shop and buying something over the counter is about as silly as it gets.

[Disco]

Also, stop equating gun crime in general with mass shootings, they are clearly very different and doing so makes you look a bit silly.

[John]

He did. How normal Islamic terrorists murdering 50 people is and how it'll only get like one day in the middle of a newspaper just like two blokes killing themselves outside of a 7-11.

No, the point was very clearly that mass shootings are now so commonplace and gun crime has become so normal to people that two people getting shot doesn't even rate highly enough for a place on the local news


If someone is nuts and determined enough to kill 50 people, he's getting that gun regardless. The only way to stop him from killing 50, is for someone else with a gun to stop him.

America doesn't have 100 times more mass shootings than the rest of the world, if I'm not mistaken America ranks something like 110~ of all countries in gun crime.

America doesn't have a gun crime problem. Certain self-contained groups have a gun crime problem.

We can talk about this 'in a few hours' when you're prepared to actually address the points people are making. You can tell me about how shootings never happen at Texas churches then too.

[Magic]

No, the point was very clearly that mass shootings are now so commonplace and gun crime has become so normal to people that two people getting shot doesn't even rate highly enough for a place on the local news



We can talk about this 'in a few hours' when you're prepared to actually address the points people are making. You can tell me about how shootings never happen at Texas churches then too.

Did seven mean local or state news?

But yeah don't recall 50 gays being gunned down all the time.

[7om]

There's no such thing as 'state news'.

[Bernanke]

Eh, there's really no point in being outraged over gun laws anymore, nothing will happen. Sandy Hook did nothing, this will do nothing.

[leedsrevolution]

Eh, there's really no point in being outraged over gun laws anymore, nothing will happen. Sandy Hook did nothing, this will do nothing.

This. If they aren't prepared to admit their system doesn't work then just let them shoot each other, keeps the news ticking along nicely.

[Bartholomert]

Our system works to provide safety on par with Central Europe for White Americans. Liberals can freak out as much as they like but there are simple demographic realities, fuck giving up my liberties because of the issues of communities I am not responsible for.

And of course, the states / cities / areas with the strictest gun ownership restrictions have the highest levels of gun crime. Pray tell me, what constitutionally permissible regulations would you implement, that haven't already been tried and failed?

[Lee]

Apparently some bloke with an assault rifle and explosives (as well as camouflauge and a security badge) has been arrested on his way to LA Pride.

[P_3]

Mert. Have you got yourself a gun?

[Bartholomert]

Mert. Have you got yourself a gun?

I live on Gtown campus and am not allowed to have one, once I move off campus I'll buy one.

[leedsrevolution]

I live on Gtown campus and am not allowed to have one, once I move off campus I'll buy one.

Can you please post on here before you go on a rampage. We do need new members. 4chan have enough already.

[Disco]

Bugger that, we'll get blamed.

[leedsrevolution]

Even better.

[Bartholomert]

Can you please post on here before you go on a rampage. We do need new members. 4chan have enough already.

When you have a family, a wife and children, and a criminal enters your house; would you rather be able to protect your loved ones or stand by impotently as you watch them raped / executed?

[Spoonsky]

You're not in Turkey any more.

[Davgooner]

Yeah, how likely is that? Seems to be a right-wing fantasy over there.

[Lee]

When you have a family, a wife and children, and a criminal enters your house; would you rather be able to protect your loved ones or stand by impotently as you watch them raped / executed?

Fucking hell how many people are breaking into houses to rape married women over there? Seems a lot of trouble to go to.

[7om]

As a well renowned cuck, I'd probably invite the invaders to have intercourse with my wife as well.

[Lewis]

'He's got six Best Poster trophies on that shelf, Leroy. We should go rob that Turk instead.'

[John]

Keeping a gun in the house probably makes it more likely that your kid will accidentally shoot your wife than you'll ever shoot an intruder.

[Lee]

As a well renowned cuck, I'd probably invite the invaders to have intercourse with my wife as well.

Lauren does the inviting around these parts.

[Lee]

Keeping a gun in the house probably makes it more likely that your kid will accidentally shoot your wife than you'll ever shoot an intruder.

Alpha kid though. :cool:

[Pepe]

You're not in Turkey any more.

:D

[Bartholomert]

Fucking hell how many people are breaking into houses to rape married women over there? Seems a lot of trouble to go to.

Doesn't matter. If it happens I will be prepared and I will defend my family as it is my Natural Right to do so.

Don't agree with giving me that freedom? You can go be a cuck with all the socialists in Europe who don't believe in Man's capacity to provide for himself without the help of other men.

[leedsrevolution]

When you have a family, a wife and children, and a criminal enters your house; would you rather be able to protect your loved ones or stand by impotently as you watch them raped / executed?

I'm not a half American/Turkish softy. I'm a true Brit. So i would politely ask them to stop then make them a cup of tea.

[Disco]

Tony Martin says hi, then he lets you out of the beartrap at the bottom of the stairs.

[Lee]

Doesn't matter. If it happens I will be prepared and I will defend my family as it is my Natural Right to do so.

Don't agree with giving me that freedom? You can go be a cuck with all the socialists in Europe who don't believe in Man's capacity to provide for himself without the help of other men.

Are you from the 18th century?

[Bartholomert]

Are you from the 18th century?

Tbh humanity peaked with the Enlightenment.

[Disco]

Doesn't matter. If it happens I will be prepared and I will defend my family as it is my Natural Right to do so.

Don't agree with giving me that freedom? You can go be a cuck with all the socialists in Europe who don't believe in Man's capacity to provide for himself without the help of other men.

Who paid for your college tuition mert?

[7om]

We came home the other day and the front door was open. Fuck knows who opened it. Point is I ended up going round the house with a bread knife when what I really wanted was a sawn off shotgun.

The house was empty.

[Bartholomert]

Who paid for your college tuition mert?

Voluntary exchange to family members for mutual long term benefit is not what I'm referring to. My parents have the right to use their money as they wish.

[Pepe]

We came home the other day and the front door was open. Fuck knows who opened it. Point is I ended up going round the house with a bread knife when what I really wanted was a sawn off shotgun.

The house was empty.

They took it all? Cunts.

[Bartholomert]

We came home the other day and the front door was open. Fuck knows who opened it. Point is I ended up going round the house with a bread knife when what I really wanted was a sawn off shotgun.

The house was empty.

Coulda been raped you got lucky breh.

[John]

Isn't it almost laughably 'beta' to reckon your family will be raped and murdered in front of you, and you'll be powerless to stop it unless you have a gun? Learn how to fight and keep a bat somewhere if you want to protect your family. Your kid isn't going to accidentally kill itself with a cricket bat.

[John]

Voluntary exchange to family members for mutual long term benefit is not what I'm referring to. My parents have the right to use their money as they wish.

But you'd have been completely unable to provide for yourself without their help. Fucking socialist.

[Lee]

Isn't it almost laughably 'beta' to reckon your family will be raped and murdered in front of you, and you'll be powerless to stop it unless you have a gun? Learn how to fight and keep a bat somewhere if you want to protect your family. Your kid isn't going to accidentally kill itself with a cricket bat.

I wouldn't rule it out.

[leedsrevolution]

Isn't it almost laughably 'beta' to reckon your family will be raped and murdered in front of you, and you'll be powerless to stop it unless you have a gun? Learn how to fight and keep a bat somewhere if you want to protect your family. Your kid isn't going to accidentally kill itself with a cricket bat.

A bat would work fine in the UK. But if the rapist had a gun it isn't going to do much good is it?

[Davgooner]

742075403699949568

[Bartholomert]

Isn't it almost laughably 'beta' to reckon your family will be raped and murdered in front of you, and you'll be powerless to stop it unless you have a gun? Learn how to fight and keep a bat somewhere if you want to protect your family. Your kid isn't going to accidentally kill itself with a cricket bat.

Have fun defending yourself with a bat when the criminal in your home has a gun. Idiot.

[Bartholomert]

But you'd have been completely unable to provide for yourself without their help. Fucking socialist.

Charity exists in capitalist societies you realize, it's greatest beneficiaries are often the greatest philanthropists (see Carnegie Mellon).

I would have been fine, either taking on loans or going to slightly worse schools with scholarships.

[leedsrevolution]

Have fun defending yourself with a bat when the criminal in your home has a gun. Idiot.

Yeah I can't believe you just made that point. A cricket bat is enough you see when not every man and his dog is running around with a hand gun.

[Bartholomert]

Yeah I can't believe you just made that point. A cricket bat is enough you see when not every man and his dog is running around with a hand gun.

If having a gun is made criminal, only criminals will have guns; you think laws will magically force criminals to use bats instead of firearms?

[John]

I was going to post a preemptive lol at that very line of reasoning earlier. There's middle ground between just completely criminalising all gun ownership and putting sufficient restrictions on their sale that someone who's been investigated as a nutjob twice by the FBI can't buy them in a supermarket.

[Lofty]

If your kid shoots you with your own gun has he cucked you?

[Ian]

https://frinkiac.com/meme/S06E23/391106.jpg?b64lines=IEZPUkdFVCBBQk9VVCBUSEUgQkFER0 UhCiBXSEVOIERPIFdFIEdFVCBUSEUKIEZSRUFLSU4nIEdVTlM_ IQ==

[Magic]

If your kid shoots you with your own gun has he cucked you?

Only a first class beta would allow such faggotry.

[Raoul Duke]

Can we stop with the usage of derogatory homophobic slurs?

[Spoonsky]

You don't understand, it's a hilarious impersonation of Mert so it doesn't count.

[Magic]

Raoul seething that he was rejected as a staff member when we moved over. :drool:

[Pepe]

:harold:

[randomlegend]

Well this has been a great read :D

[Bartholomert]

I was going to post a preemptive lol at that very line of reasoning earlier. There's middle ground between just completely criminalising all gun ownership and putting sufficient restrictions on their sale that someone who's been investigated as a nutjob twice by the FBI can't buy them in a supermarket.

The only people those restrictions would apply to are law abiding citizens, disadvantaging them in any confrontation with criminals, don't you get that?

[Shindig]

The only people those restrictions would apply to are law abiding citizens, disadvantaging them in any confrontation with criminals, don't you get that?

How? They all have phones and can dial 911. We do something similar in England and aren't crimed to bits.

[The Merse]

When you have a family, a wife and children, and a criminal enters your house; would you rather be able to protect your loved ones or stand by impotently as you watch them raped / executed?

This example is always used, seemingly due to fear of Viking raids or the plot from a 1980's JCVD movie - but I have to question... How often does anyone experience a violent intruder in their home whilst they are at home?

[The Merse]

The only people those restrictions would apply to are law abiding citizens, disadvantaging them in any confrontation with criminals, don't you get that?

Again, a quaint analogy - this one appears to allude to shootouts outside the ol' saloon, perhaps in front of the half constructed clock tower, whilst the sheriff is incapacitated?

I'd be genuinely interested as to how often the law abiding citizens use those guns to defend themselves successfully. The very fact that there are potentially guns on both sides escalates the risk for BOTH parties.

Also, reduce the legal guns and you'll reduce the illegal arms too.

[The Merse]

Actually fuck it, let's pretend Mert used that other wonderful cliche that those in his camp (the NRA) so often use too -


The second amendment is there so the people can take up arms against tyranny

Except, today Tyranny will come at you with F-15's and helicopter gunships.

Futility = Freedom.

[GS]

They could always fight a guerrilla war where their cousin-wives secretly bring food into the swamp at night for the freedom fighters.

[Lewis]

You laugh, but history suggests that the Americans would lose that war.

[GS]

You laugh, but history suggests that the Americans would lose that war.

The federal government would probably end up massacring and / or forcibly expelling those who were left alive.

The home of the brave.

[Spoonsky]

http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-36131

[bruhnaldo]

:(

[bruhnaldo]

Everything is just shit.

[Spoonsky]

Shit, we forgot about bruhnaldo.

[Lewis]

He'd already pulled and was long gone.

[Lewis]

lol at Owen Jones storming off Sky News.

[bruhnaldo]

I appreciate Lewis' faith in me. Ask early and often, my tactic.

[Boydy]

lol at Owen Jones storming off Sky News.

What happened?

[Lee]

He didn't seem to like any discussion about the Florida shooting that didn't make it entirely about gay people.

[Lewis]

The news man and Julia Hartley-Brewer were attempting to put it into the general context of Muslims attacking things Muslims don't like (music, cartoons, gays), but he just wanted to call it homophobic terrorism and quote the bloke's old man saying that watching Eurovision set him off.

[Lee]

He's such a twat. I really dislike the little prick.

[Yevrah]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ITdjAb3VcE

[Vim]

"You don't understand this becase you're not gay"

Someone punch this twat in the face, please.

[Yevrah]

I'm only two minutes in, and it's gold, he really is a monstrous twat.

[Gray Fox]

742034549232766976

I wish I could say this was a troll.

[igor_balis]

Terrible tragedy but I laughed multiple times reading this thread, you horrible cunts.

[Spoonsky]

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/283218-orlando-shooters-imam-is-pro-trump

Well that's... something.

[Spoonsky]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ITdjAb3VcE

She dons him at 4:30 and he just seethes silently from then on. Textbook WDYTOE meltdown.

[Lee]

He's so fucking desperate to be a victim. Fuck off you dickhead, nobody tried to shoot you.

[Davgooner]

Didn't even know he was gay. Given that I suppose you can understand it.

[Magic]

Actually fuck it, let's pretend Mert used that other wonderful cliche that those in his camp (the NRA) so often use too -



Except, today Tyranny will come at you with F-15's and helicopter gunships.

Futility = Freedom.

Lol this isn't '91, mate.

[Queenslander]

John Howard :cool:

[Bartholomert]

How? They all have phones and can dial 911. We do something similar in England and aren't crimed to bits.

Ya I'm sure that the person about to murder you will wait for the police to show up to protect you before proceeding. :wall:

[phonics]

Who's showing up to murder me? My house has been robbed twice and they've run the moment I turned up/they were aware of my presence.

[Bartholomert]

This example is always used, seemingly due to fear of Viking raids or the plot from a 1980's JCVD movie - but I have to question... How often does anyone experience a violent intruder in their home whilst they are at home?


Again, a quaint analogy - this one appears to allude to shootouts outside the ol' saloon, perhaps in front of the half constructed clock tower, whilst the sheriff is incapacitated?

I'd be genuinely interested as to how often the law abiding citizens use those guns to defend themselves successfully. The very fact that there are potentially guns on both sides escalates the risk for BOTH parties.

Also, reduce the legal guns and you'll reduce the illegal arms too.

It's not relevant how often it happens, it's the unqualified right I have as a human being to protect myself and my family from harm. Period.

Drugs are illegal, and yet they are very easy to come by if you are determined. Guns would be the same.


Actually fuck it, let's pretend Mert used that other wonderful cliche that those in his camp (the NRA) so often use too -

Except, today Tyranny will come at you with F-15's and helicopter gunships.

Futility = Freedom.

1. There are plenty of historical examples of the 2nd Amendment being used to combat tyranny in the United States. (Such as this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain and this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)) This is not a hypothetical scenario imagined by dead white men in the 18th century, it has been validated by actual application throughout American history.

2. It's not about defeating the government (although eradicating guerrilla campaigns can be a bitch), but about raising the relative cost of imposing tyranny so that it acts as an effective deterrent. The first thing the Bolsheviks and Nazis did before embarking on their mass killing / subjugation of population groups, was to disarm them; it's not a coincidence. Could you imagine how much harder perpetrating the Holocaust would have been if Jews had been armed like Texans?

[Bartholomert]

You guys are just wrong. Any argument you make I can very easily counter, at the end of the day it just comes down to, 'well emotionally I just feel that gun control should work, it works in the UK, and because I have an inferiority complex due to my countries relative poverty compared to the US, I will continue irrationally believing that my country is right on this issue even in the face of overwhelming logic, reason and evidence to the contrary.'

[niko_cee]

Just replace the gas ovens with the golden arches?

[Disco]

There's something so very quaint about Americans and their paranoia.

[Bartholomert]

There's something so very quaint about Americans and their paranoia.

There's something so very alarming about the Europeans and their arrogant belief in their immunity from the human tendency towards tyranny and repression, etc.

[Boydy]

If only the native Americans had had assault rifles.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If you want a proliferation of guns, you'll just have to accept that there will constantly be mass murders - I'm making the 488th post in this thread - and if you're fine with that, then enjoy living in America. I hope your friends and family never get caught up in one.

[Bartholomert]

Liberal logic:

"If you ban guns then society will be safer because people won't have access to guns"

"If you ban abortions then women will be less safe because they will still access abortions illegally"

[Davgooner]

Gunmen, they fire, Mert's five chins are terrified.

I'll keep working on it.

[SvN]

Mate, he'd have sex with your girlfriend.

[Davgooner]

I will continue irrationally believing that my country is right on this issue even in the face of overwhelming logic, reason and evidence to the contrary.

You should just stick this in your signature and be done with it.

[Magic]

6 music are having gay disco fest because of Orlando. If only they knew these are the sort of side effects their rampages cause. Bloody Moslems.

[randomlegend]

It's not relevant how often it happens, it's the unqualified right I have as a human being to protect myself and my family from harm. Period.


What if they have a tank? Or there's 10 of them?

It's not relevant how unlikely that is to happen, you should still be protecting yourself and your family from it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Liberal logic:

"If you ban guns then society will be safer because people won't have access to guns"

"If you ban abortions then women will be less safe because they will still access abortions illegally"

A shot fired from a legal gun does the same damage as a shot fired from an illegal gun.

The only variable with guns is how many shots get fired.

[Bartholomert]

If you want a proliferation of guns, you'll just have to accept that there will constantly be mass murders - I'm making the 488th post in this thread - and if you're fine with that, then enjoy living in America. I hope your friends and family never get caught up in one.

How many times do I have to say this, mass shootings do not happen in suburban America, any more than they happen in Europe. An example, America's safest city over a population of 250,000 is Plano, Texas with a homicide rate of 0.4 (which is lower than the countries of Switzerland, Germany, Austria, Denmark, etc.). I'm at work so I can't be bothered to find the exact numbers, but Texas almost undoubtedly has a higher incidence of average gun ownership than the US as a whole, and the US has the highest civilian gun ownership rate out of any country in the world, by a lot.

So the main take away: there are places in America where crime is lower than nearly anywhere else on earth, where the citizenry is armed more heavily than anywhere else on earth.

Guns. Are. Not. The. Problem.

[Bartholomert]

A shot fired from a legal gun does the same damage as a shot fired from an illegal gun.

The only variable with guns is how many shots get fired.

We just going to pretend deterrence doesn't exist or?

[Bartholomert]

What if they have a tank? Or there's 10 of them?

It's not relevant how unlikely that is to happen, you should still be protecting yourself and your family from it.

There's a difference between 'unlikely' and 'impossible'.

[Henry]

mert's schitzophrenia must really be getting to him on this one, what with having to consider all three angles - gays, gun rights and Muslamics.