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Yevrah
29-09-2015, 08:19 PM
Copying the BBC poll, from these four:

http://i58.tinypic.com/331qb0l.jpg

Toby
29-09-2015, 08:20 PM
Carlo Ancelotti.

Vim
29-09-2015, 08:20 PM
From those for, probably Pep. However, I think Juve must stick to an Italian coach.

Sir Andy Mahowry
29-09-2015, 08:20 PM
I think I agree with the poll results tbh, perhaps a little surprised that Enrique got as high as 5% though.

Yevrah
29-09-2015, 08:21 PM
I'm afraid he didn't make the Beeb's cut.

@Tobes.

Pen
29-09-2015, 08:21 PM
David Moyes if I can have anyone, but from those four Pep 'Havid Moyez' Guardiola would be my choice.

Pepe
29-09-2015, 08:24 PM
Mourinho. He would love all the hate the team gets. Well, love it or make him go insane; either would be fun to watch.

Toby
29-09-2015, 08:24 PM
I'm afraid he didn't make the Beeb's cut.

@Tobes.

I was mostly joking because Chelsea are so rubbish at the moment, but it's comfortably Mourinho, shortlist or not.

Yevrah
29-09-2015, 08:24 PM
I think I agree with the poll results tbh, perhaps a little surprised that Enrique got as high as 5% though.

Wenger's lucky to have got 19%. Would anyone really choose him over Pep-ball or the arch-pragmatist?

Sir Andy Mahowry
29-09-2015, 08:26 PM
Wenger's lucky to have got 19%. Would anyone really choose him over Pep-ball or the arch-pragmatist?

Yeah but you've got to remember that Arsenal fanboys would have destroyed the shit out of that poll, the Beeb are actually lucky that he didn't have 90+%.

Arsenal fans probably forgot to share it on Twitter or did so far too late.

niko_cee
29-09-2015, 08:26 PM
Of those choices, I would.

Yevrah
29-09-2015, 08:28 PM
Of those choices, I would.

Seriously?

You'd rather have Wenger at Liverpool ahead of Guardiola or Mourinho?

I'm struggling to believe.

SvN
29-09-2015, 08:30 PM
I'd like to see Guardiola at a club that isn't (one of) the best in Europe. Someone like Milan, or Liverpool. That'd show what he's made of.

Toby
29-09-2015, 08:30 PM
Is there any particular reason for that being the shortlist? Enrique and Wenger wouldn't be in my Top 3.

Giggles
29-09-2015, 08:31 PM
Wenger for me.

Jimmy Floyd
29-09-2015, 08:31 PM
You'd all have Mourinho if you'd actually experienced him managing your club, rather than watched him manage clubs you probably don't much like anyway.

Yevrah
29-09-2015, 08:32 PM
I'd like to see Guardiola at a club that isn't (one of) the best in Europe. Someone like Milan, or Liverpool. That'd show what he's made of.

Is that the managerial equivalent of seeing how Messi copes at Stoke on a cold and wet Tuesday?

Yevrah
29-09-2015, 08:33 PM
Is there any particular reason for that being the shortlist? Enrique and Wenger wouldn't be in my Top 3.

I was hoping this thread might shed some light on it. My best guess was that they're the 4 highest profile managers in action tonight.

SvN
29-09-2015, 08:35 PM
Is that the managerial equivalent of seeing how Messi copes at Stoke on a cold and wet Tuesday?

Maybe, but he'll never reach the levels of Sir Alex if he manages teams that are already brilliant.

niko_cee
29-09-2015, 08:36 PM
Seriously?

You'd rather have Wenger at Liverpool ahead of Guardiola or Mourinho?

I'm struggling to believe.

I'm not sure any of them would make a practical difference. Arsene seems the most admirable of the bunch. Liverpool, as a club, would kill for what he's done at Arsenal (a club of similar stature). The others have absolutely no pedigree in that regard.

Mellberg
29-09-2015, 08:38 PM
Sir Brian Little.

Close the thread.

Yevrah
29-09-2015, 08:38 PM
I'm not sure any of them would make a practical difference. Arsene seems the most admirable of the bunch. Liverpool, as a club, would kill for what he's done at Arsenal (a club of similar stature). The others have absolutely no pedigree in that regard.

If it was still 1996 I'd agree with you, but as it is if he had the ability to bring in the sort of players that transformed Arsenal in the 90s to Liverpool, he'd be doing so now.

Giggles
29-09-2015, 08:40 PM
If it was still 1996 I'd agree with you, but as it is if he had the ability to bring in the sort of players that transformed Arsenal in the 90s to Liverpool, he'd be doing so now.

Isn't it only because he won't get into bed with Mendes?

Yevrah
29-09-2015, 08:42 PM
Isn't it only because he won't get into bed with Mendes?

That might be part of it (and in this day and age marks him down as even more of a nutter), but the main reason is that he used up the low hanging fruit 20 years ago.

Reg
29-09-2015, 08:46 PM
Guardiola by a mile.

Mourinho would be at the bottom of my list. There's more to football than win percentages.

Magic
29-09-2015, 08:49 PM
Mourinho. He's a cunt, but he'd be our cunt.

Magic
29-09-2015, 08:50 PM
Don't get me wrong when he gets us up and winning I'd ditch him for Steve Evans.

Davgooner
29-09-2015, 08:51 PM
Has to Wenger out of that lot.

Lewis
29-09-2015, 08:57 PM
'The Special One'. Every time. The others are chumps.

CJay
29-09-2015, 09:05 PM
Guardiola by a mile.

Mourinho would be at the bottom of my list. There's more to football than win percentages.

I agree. I genuinely don't think I could root for a club he's in charge of.

Boydy
29-09-2015, 09:08 PM
I'd stick with Rodgers.

niko_cee
29-09-2015, 09:14 PM
If it was still 1996 I'd agree with you, but as it is if he had the ability to bring in the sort of players that transformed Arsenal in the 90s to Liverpool, he'd be doing so now.

As opposed to what? Getting a billionaire owner? That wasn't on the option sheet, as far as I can see.

Waffdon
29-09-2015, 09:21 PM
I agree. I genuinely don't think I could root for a club he's in charge of.

Hark at that.

Jimmy Floyd
29-09-2015, 09:23 PM
Mourinho. He's a cunt, but he'd be our cunt.

Exactly. He's the most paranoid human alive but every fibre of his being goes into trying to make Chelsea win. He had me at shushing Anfield.

Vim
29-09-2015, 09:32 PM
I agree. I genuinely don't think I could root for a club he's in charge of.

What? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Waffdon
29-09-2015, 09:35 PM
He's a Liverpool fan, tbf

CJay
29-09-2015, 09:36 PM
What? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Eh? Why not?

Vim
29-09-2015, 09:37 PM
Maybe I worded it a bit too strong, but let me get this straight, if he were hired by Liverpool you wouldn't root for them?

Jeet
29-09-2015, 09:40 PM
Pep has had it easy really.

QE Harold Flair
29-09-2015, 09:41 PM
'Pep', obviously.

CJay
29-09-2015, 09:43 PM
I think the man is a complete and utter twat. I might still want them to do well deep down, but I honestly think I'd lose interest in football if he became Liverpool manager. He's a horrible person.
Vim

Luca
29-09-2015, 09:45 PM
Mourinho by a country mile, but I'd settle for Pep if he was off "managing FC ISIS."

Toby
29-09-2015, 09:46 PM
The "bad person" sort of claims always seem so hilariously over the top to me. I mean, he's a sore loser with a stubborn and bitter streak, but he's not out robbing old ladies and killing kittens. It's pantomime villainy rather than anything actually malicious.

Reg
29-09-2015, 09:48 PM
If he was in another field, e.g. in your workplace doing and saying the same things, I bet you'd call him a bad person.

The fact that football's an entertainment industry doesn't mean there aren't bad people.

Jimmy Floyd
29-09-2015, 09:49 PM
He's probably a less horrible person than Brendan Rodgers.

Luca
29-09-2015, 09:49 PM
If he was in another field, e.g. in your workplace doing and saying the same things, I bet you'd call him a bad person.

The fact that football's an entertainment industry doesn't mean there aren't bad people.

Would you? A bit of a cunt, sure, but not a bad person.

Lewis
29-09-2015, 09:50 PM
I think the man is a complete and utter twat. I might still want them to do well deep down, but I honestly think I'd lose interest in football if he became Liverpool manager. He's a horrible person.
Vim

Did you lose interest when a racist nearly won you the title?

CJay
29-09-2015, 09:50 PM
The "bad person" sort of claims always seem so hilariously over the top to me. I mean, he's a sore loser with a stubborn and bitter streak, but he's not out robbing old ladies and killing kittens. It's pantomime villainy rather than anything actually malicious.

He gouged an opposition coach's eye.

Reg
29-09-2015, 09:51 PM
:harold:
@Jim

John
29-09-2015, 09:51 PM
I think the man is a complete and utter twat. I might still want them to do well deep down, but I honestly think I'd lose interest in football if he became Liverpool manager. He's a horrible person.
Vim

Then you hate Mourinho more than you love Liverpool, which is quite laughable.

Right now I'd keep Mark Warburton in charge, but when we were in the peak of my lifetime I'd probably take Guardiola over the others. Not because I think he's a better manager, but because Mourinho's supreme pragmatism wouldn't be the ideal fit with a side containing Brian Laudrup and Paul Gascoigne.

niko_cee
29-09-2015, 09:52 PM
That's the thing with Mourinho. It's all so unnecessary. He actually seems like he would (should) be a really nice/great guy. Great story of battling his way through the ranks in a shithouse profession where ability is often overlooked. And then you get all the shit. On a practical level, I'm not sure what he could do for a club like Liverpool. He (probably like any manager nowadays) needs things beyond their own control to go in their favour to achieve what you would term 'next level success' (rivals being a shambles). He can muster a capable force well, but he needs to have the capable force. The stars are never going to align like that for Liverpool (one of the bigger teams will always do sufficiently well).

Toby
29-09-2015, 09:54 PM
If he was in another field, e.g. in your workplace doing and saying the same things, I bet you'd call him a bad person.

The fact that football's an entertainment industry doesn't mean there aren't bad people.

I really don't think I would. I might call him a twat or a cunt or any insult under the sun, but "horrible person" suggests something really sinister and terrible. I'd reserve that for actual bad deeds where people are genuinely hurt by his actions.

With the exception of his childish eye poke, which thankfully came to nothing, I'm not aware of anything he's done in that regard. Reports from most would suggest that away from the cameras he's a very nice man, he's just a prat in the limelight.

Reg
29-09-2015, 09:56 PM
The limelight being where he interacts with everyone in the profession outside of whatever 30 people he happens to be managing.

CJay
29-09-2015, 09:59 PM
Then you hate Mourinho more than you love Liverpool, which is quite laughable.

A manager represents a club far more than any individual player (other than a captain, maybe). That you'd want them not to be a massive twat seems reasonable.

Toby
29-09-2015, 10:02 PM
The limelight being where he interacts with everyone in the profession outside of whatever 30 people he happens to be managing.

No it isn't, there are plenty of private meetings with people from outside the club. Other managers for example, or journalists meeting with him one to one rather than with cameras rolling.

Whatever the case, his behaviour on camera still isn't sufficient for me to find "horrible person" an appropriate description.

John
29-09-2015, 10:06 PM
A manager represents a club far more than any individual player (other than a captain, maybe). That you'd want them not to be a massive twat seems reasonable.

It does. But it doesn't even address, never mind contradict my point.

If Mourinho becoming Liverpool manager would be enough to make you stop supporting Liverpool then you hate him more than you love them.

QE Harold Flair
29-09-2015, 10:14 PM
I really don't think I would. I might call him a twat or a cunt or any insult under the sun, but "horrible person" suggests something really sinister and terrible. I'd reserve that for actual bad deeds where people are genuinely hurt by his actions.

With the exception of his childish eye poke, which thankfully came to nothing, I'm not aware of anything he's done in that regard. Reports from most would suggest that away from the cameras he's a very nice man, he's just a prat in the limelight.

I'm pretty sure you've reserved such judgments for myself, and I've hurt nobody. Except you with my endless victories.

Toby
29-09-2015, 10:18 PM
I've certainly called you stupid, but never a bad or horrible person as far as I recall. It'd be more justifiable than for Mourinho though given your well documented bigotry.

QE Harold Flair
29-09-2015, 10:18 PM
I've certainly called you stupid, but never a bad or horrible person as far as I recall. It'd be more justifiable than for Mourinho though given your well documented bigotry.

Oh I'm pretty sure you've called me 'nasty' on more than one occasion. 'Bigotry' is often just 'the truth' that people don't like hearing.

CJay
29-09-2015, 10:21 PM
It does. But it doesn't even address, never mind contradict my point.

If Mourinho becoming Liverpool manager would be enough to make you stop supporting Liverpool then you hate him more than you love them.

Right. I'm not sworn to love Liverpool to the day I die you know?

Toby
29-09-2015, 10:28 PM
Oh I'm pretty sure you've called me 'nasty' on more than one occasion. 'Bigotry' is often just 'the truth' that people don't like hearing.

I'm fairly sure I haven't, but "nasty" isn't in the same league as "horrible person". By all means keep making things up though.

QE Harold Flair
29-09-2015, 10:30 PM
I'm fairly sure I haven't, but "nasty" isn't in the same league as "horrible person". By all means keep making things up though.

I don't see much difference between 'nasty' and 'horrible'. They mean the same thing when describing someone.

Toby
29-09-2015, 10:34 PM
I don't see much difference between 'nasty' and 'horrible'. They mean the same thing when describing someone.

"Nasty person" and "horrible person" are probably much the same. Just saying something somebody said or did was nasty obviously isn't the same though.

I'm not going to get into a semantics wank off over completely made up posts, so suffice to say I've never called you a horrible, nasty or bad person, so you can sleep easy tonight.

Ian
29-09-2015, 11:02 PM
You'd all have Mourinho if you'd actually experienced him managing your club, rather than watched him manage clubs you probably don't much like anyway.

I've already experienced, and unwaveringly supported, a colossal shithouse cunt managing the club I support. I'm not sure I want to bring one in, one who is on the cusp of a breakdown, who I already know that is true of.

My inner pragmatist says "Fuck it, you'd take Mourinho" in a heartbeat but he makes the notion increasingly unpalatable.

Lewis
29-09-2015, 11:06 PM
I think people were over-doing the Ferguson being a cunt stuff towards the end. Yeah, he was all about himself; but that's why he was amazing.

Ian
29-09-2015, 11:14 PM
It wasn't over-done. He is a colossal mega-cunt. What people were over-doing is the thinking it matters.

Lewis
29-09-2015, 11:18 PM
It seems to stem largely from the fact he never criticised the Glazers, as if that would have achieved anything.

QE Harold Flair
29-09-2015, 11:28 PM
I'm not going to get into a semantics wank off

Oh come on, I'm bored.

ItalAussie
30-09-2015, 02:02 AM
I think Mourinho and Juventus would be a fairly natural fit, so I'm going to go with him.

elth
30-09-2015, 04:00 AM
Mourinho's the best manager there. Show me Pep doing it in a league where he's not managing in easy mode.

Not sure any of them are remotely what I want in a United manager though.

Andy
30-09-2015, 06:33 AM
I'd love Mourinho at Southampton, would be fun seeing Guardiola trying to play a back three and seven attackers or trying to get Wanyama playing like Xavi but Mourinho would be the one.

His style suits the league and he'd instantly take us up a level. I think we'd be challenging for the top four every season with him in charge. Our team is already set up to defend and work hard without the ball so wouldn't be a huge change.

Also he takes the cups seriously which is probably the most important thing I would look for when picking potential managers for Southampton. It's a massive problem with Koeman.

Giggles
30-09-2015, 06:57 AM
It does. But it doesn't even address, never mind contradict my point.

If Mourinho becoming Liverpool manager would be enough to make you stop supporting Liverpool then you hate him more than you love them.

You can't 'love' a football team unless you're from the born and reared into it in the area. Most of us just follow or support teams.

simon
30-09-2015, 08:13 AM
Guardiola just as much of a pragmatist as Mourinho. He just thinks that winning by having 80% of the ball is more effective than parking the bus.

I'd love to see what Guardiola would do at Chelsea, but I'd still have Mourinho over him. Though that might be different if I supported Man Utd or some other team. There's too much history there for me not to choose Mourinho.

Some of the stuff in this thread has been laughable though. How can you claim to be unable to root for a side when Mourinho is in charge, yet be totally fine with having Luis Suarez as your best player?

Luke Emia
30-09-2015, 08:58 AM
Mourinho please. I'd love some shit on a stick football if it meant we won the league. Hell half the time that's what we get anyway and we finish 6th so what difference would it make.

randomlegend
30-09-2015, 09:17 AM
Toby's "apart from the time he childishly assaulted someone he's not done anything bad" raised a lol.

His dealings with those medical staff have been proper shithouse behaviour, also.

Toby
30-09-2015, 09:21 AM
I was going to mention the Eva Carneiro stuff, and I agree it reflects very badly on him, but "horrible person" is still hilariously blown out of proportion.

CJay
30-09-2015, 09:49 AM
Guardiola just as much of a pragmatist as Mourinho. He just thinks that winning by having 80% of the ball is more effective than parking the bus.

I'd love to see what Guardiola would do at Chelsea, but I'd still have Mourinho over him. Though that might be different if I supported Man Utd or some other team. There's too much history there for me not to choose Mourinho.

Some of the stuff in this thread has been laughable though. How can you claim to be unable to root for a side when Mourinho is in charge, yet be totally fine with having Luis Suarez as your best player?

Who said I was totally fine? I wanted us to sell Suarez after each 'big' incident. As I've already suggested, individual players don't represent clubs as much as a manager does. Plenty of clubs have players who have done something horrible in their lifetime.

Jimmy Floyd
30-09-2015, 10:14 AM
I fucking love it when fans start moralising about football. These people are paid to play football and coach teams, not do a passable impression of St Francis of Assisi.

Giggles
30-09-2015, 10:25 AM
The role model shit is the worst. Raise your own fucking spawn.

SvN
30-09-2015, 11:00 AM
I remember reading a (probably Daily Mail) article about a kid at school biting another kid just after one of the Suarez incidents. The mother obviously said it was all Suarez's fault that her kid is a little twat who sinks his teeth into his classmates.

Shit chavvy parents just want someone else to blame for their shit parenting.

Boydy
30-09-2015, 11:20 AM
Lol at the Chelsea fans crying about people not wanting their dickhead manager.

:*****)

Toby
30-09-2015, 11:32 AM
Lol at thinking that's what it's about.

:************************)

Angelsaint
30-09-2015, 11:33 AM
The times when it was me and my love to Mourinho vs the world... How times changes...

Anywho Bob Bradley would be a nice idea, American coaching in the premier League.... Just think of the sponsorship!

Also the new Benfica manager, he likes to give kids a chance with very good results.

Reg
30-09-2015, 12:43 PM
Jimmy Floyd Why can you be 'moral' about other things, but not football? Football is as real a part of life as most other things, as ridiculous and melodramatic as it often appears.


Guardiola just as much of a pragmatist as Mourinho. He just thinks that winning by having 80% of the ball is more effective than parking the bus.
If you're referring to what I said about win percentages, I more meant how I'd rather have Wenger, for example, even if Mourinho would do better for us.

I agree that Guardiola may be as pragmatic on the pitch, but he isn't as "pragmatic" when it comes to being a detestable arsehole in the hope of gaining a slight advantage.

Giggles
30-09-2015, 01:35 PM
People that have the edge needed to get to the peak of sport, like most things, are cunts. It's just in their make up that they need to be, it's what separates them from the next best.
The small few that aren't are a strange exception.

QE Harold Flair
30-09-2015, 01:49 PM
People that have the edge needed to get to the peak of sport, like most things, are cunts. It's just in their make up that they need to be, it's what separates them from the next best.
The small few that aren't are a strange exception.

An oft-repeated nonsense. Pele didn't go around biting people and being a cunt. And most top sports people can't really be described as cunts, you just notice those who are.

Adam
30-09-2015, 02:34 PM
If Mourinho fancies minimum wage he can rock up at Bolton.

Max Power
30-09-2015, 03:28 PM
Jimmy Floyd Why can you be 'moral' about other things, but not football? Football is as real a part of life as most other things, as ridiculous and melodramatic as it often appears.


If you're referring to what I said about win percentages, I more meant how I'd rather have Wenger, for example, even if Mourinho would do better for us.

I agree that Guardiola may be as pragmatic on the pitch, but he isn't as "pragmatic" when it comes to being a detestable arsehole in the hope of gaining a slight advantage.

Didn't Pep get a whole medical staff sacked because he was mardy about a few knee injuries or something.

Mourinho is a twat, but like with the Costa debate the other week, he's not done anything that contemptible. Certainly nothing that would prevent me wanting him to be Leicester city manager and undoubtedly being a success

Reg
30-09-2015, 03:38 PM
People that have the edge needed to get to the peak of sport, like most things, are cunts. It's just in their make up that they need to be, it's what separates them from the next best.
The small few that aren't are a strange exception.
I don't buy this either. The vast majority are at the very least inoffensive, alright people. From what I can tell, footballers aren't any worse or better a bunch than office workers or whatever.


Didn't Pep get a whole medical staff sacked because he was mardy about a few knee injuries or something.
They quit, not entirely sure what happened, but even if Pep acted like a twat (?), he said afterwards that if the team loses it is his fault. http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/apr/17/pep-guardiola-bayern-munich-doctor

Not too Mourinho like.

Toby
30-09-2015, 03:41 PM
Carneiro also "quit". And despite Mourinho's tantrum being completely unjustified, he definitely didn't blame the medics for the team losing.

Reg
30-09-2015, 03:43 PM
If he did blame them, it's not like one incident equals the six encyclopaedias worth of Mourinho-acting-like-a-pillock cases.

QE Harold Flair
30-09-2015, 03:45 PM
Didn't Pep get a whole medical staff sacked because he was mardy about a few knee injuries or something.

Mourinho is a twat, but like with the Costa debate the other week, he's not done anything that contemptible. Certainly nothing that would prevent me wanting him to be Leicester city manager and undoubtedly being a success

He did stick his fingers in someone's eye.

QE Harold Flair
30-09-2015, 03:46 PM
Carneiro also "quit"

:harold:


And despite Mourinho's tantrum being completely unjustified, he definitely didn't blame the medics for the team losing.

That's okay, then.

Max Power
30-09-2015, 03:48 PM
He did stick his fingers in someone's eye.
A dick move no doubt, but you wouldn't want him to rock up and win a stack of trophies for your club because of it?

Toby
30-09-2015, 03:52 PM
:harold:


As implied by the inverted commas, I don't deny she was forced out of the club largely against her will. It seems largely the same thing happened at Bayern though.

Mourinho was a prat throughout that episode, but the media shitstorm over it has been the worst aspect, with it being used as an excuse for a load of paparazzi to follow her around because, woah, holy shit, an attractive woman in football, wonder what her arse looks like.

QE Harold Flair
30-09-2015, 04:23 PM
A dick move no doubt, but you wouldn't want him to rock up and win a stack of trophies for your club because of it?

I would never welcome him, no.

Angelsaint
30-09-2015, 08:59 PM
Also the new Benfica manager, he likes to give kids a chance with very good results.
Hope this doesn't get unnoticed with today's results.

The Merse
30-09-2015, 10:56 PM
That might be part of it (and in this day and age marks him down as even more of a nutter), but the main reason is that he used up the low hanging fruit 20 years ago.

Dude, he wasn't even in England 20 years ago. I'm not gonna go full fan boy but at least recognise that it's only 11 years since the Invincibles season and nine since the Champions League Finalists. I don't say 'only' as an inferiority complex Arsenal fan or WKB type, but just as someone who takes a bit of an issue with your exaggeration.

I've still voted for him. Best thing for the club may be a change, but I still say that no-one else could have bettered his results in the Emirates loans years. We were being crippled by paying off the stadium so quickly.

Reg
30-09-2015, 11:00 PM
11 years is a long time in football.

Lewis
30-09-2015, 11:21 PM
In hindsight, building that stadium was such a shit idea.

phonics
30-09-2015, 11:26 PM
In hindsight, building that stadium was such a shit idea.

David Dein would have had us playing in Wembley which would have been shit too.

Lewis
30-09-2015, 11:49 PM
It made sense then, but knowing what we know now (that money is increasingly from telly and sponsorships) devoting hundreds of millions to getting an extra twenty-thousand seats, thereby robbing a great team of further investment, doesn't seem that clever. There is probably a good case for Chelsea and Tottenham not bothering at all, although I expect it's trumped by the idea that you need a sixty-thousand seater to be considered a big club.

phonics
30-09-2015, 11:58 PM
From what I've read it seems that everything was 2-3 years down the line already when Abramovic turned up and turned the whole thing on his head. He probably could have span out finishing 2nd every year/hoping United fucked up somewhere down the line but when a third competitor showed up it all got a bit much. Especially when they were buying your main targets like SWP (laughable as it seems now) to get on the bench every now and then. At that point you've spent millions/years getting permits and the like and you're basically forced to go ahead with it.