Barcelona - van crash

[Raoul Duke]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/17/van-crashes-into-crowd-of-people-barcelona-las-ramblas


A van has crashed into a crowd of people in central Barcelona, police have said.

Several people were injured in a “massive crash”, the Spanish police said on Twitter. A photograph shown by public broadcaster RTVE showed three people lying on the ground in the street.

Metro stations close to site of the crash in the Las Ramblas area were closed.

The Spanish newspaper El Pais, citing police sources, said the driver of the vehicle fled on foot.

Catalan emergency services said people should stay away from the area around Plaça de Catalunya, which is popular with tourists.

The circumstances of the crash are not known.

That last line is pretty :harold:

[Pepe]

I thought this was going to be about 'Barca, mate.'

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I'm going to Spain (driving round) on Tuesday with Barca earmarked.

RIP me?

[Lewis]

Hull has some of those concrete anti-Islam barriers now, as if we're a top target.

[John]

Unless you somehow time travel and wind up there this afternoon I wouldn't worry.

This sort of thing can seriously get to fuck. Guns and bombs are bad enough, but I don't need to be confronting mortality every time an approaching engine is revving a bit higher than normal.

[bruhnaldo]

AP
BREAKING: Spain's El Pais newspaper, citing police sources, says perpetrators of van incident in Barcelona holed up in a bar.

[Pepe]

Yet another reason for bicycle friendly infrastructure.

[SincereTheRebel]

I'm going to Spain (driving round) on Tuesday with Barca earmarked.

RIP me?

Hopefully.

Just send me the £20 or fifa coins before the freedom fighters in spain put you in the deep six

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Hopefully.

Just send me the £20 or fifa coins before the freedom fighters in spain put you in the deep six

Would some Polish moonshine work?

[Lewis]

Moroccan immigrant. At least he wasn't grooming anybody.

[Adramelch]

Presumably 3 gunmen on the loose, but 1 seems to have been caught.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

10 posts in two and a half hours.

A terrorist attack was usually the catalyst for a frenzy.

[John Arne]

Gary Speed is dead.

[John Arne]

That'll get things going.

[Shindig]

10 posts in two and a half hours.

A terrorist attack was usually the catalyst for a frenzy.

Not when we've had eight in a year.

[GS]

Can we confirm what point we're at in the standard line of response to this?

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Still waiting on the lad getting his piano out, that'll be tomorrow I suppose.

[Spikey M]

Can we confirm what point we're at in the standard line of response to this?

Islamist(s) kills people > nothing to do with Islam > Pop concert

Sorted.

[Shindig]

Islam needs a proper counter-culture.

[Giggles]

Yet another reason for bicycle friendly infrastructure.

Better to get mown down.

[Yevrah]

Another step closer to a pretty horrible future.

[John]

There's some fairly intense footage of the aftermath of this shot by some fairly intense arseholes just wandering around videoing people weeping and dying rather than doing anything to help.

One of the seemingly dead looks tiny, probably no older than twelve or thirteen.

[Yevrah]

Any linkage?

[Magic]

Fuck sake mate is going there tomorrow already buried two mates don't need a third ffs.

[GS]

If this one is from Morocco, there was mobile phone footage of a boatload of migrants (from Morocco, presumably) landing on a beach in southern Spain and legging it in-land.

[John]

Any linkage?

Nope. Got one through a Whatsapp group and the others have all just been popping up and being taken down on Facebook.

[Yevrah]

Probably for the best, don't really want to watch it.

[GS]

How crushingly myopic do you need to be to record that sort of thing? One assumes the only conceivable explanation is that they reckon it'll go viral.

[Yevrah]

Why are the media still referring to them as "so called Islamic State"?

What the fuck is the point?

[niko_cee]

Aye, they're probably up to the artist formerly known and so-called Islamic State by now, seeing as they don't actually have much, if any, of a state left.

[John]

Thirteen confirmed dead so far. I'd fancy that to go up by a couple overnight.

[GS]

Inevitably, all of the newspaper have gone big on it on the front pages thus affording the act (and the killer, their motivation etc.) even more coverage liable to elicit copycat attacks.

[Shindig]

How crushingly myopic do you need to be to record that sort of thing? One assumes the only conceivable explanation is that they reckon it'll go viral.

"I'm at an event, guys!" although it does provide something for the police to study.

[John]

Inevitably, all of the newspaper have gone big on it on the front pages thus affording the act (and the killer, their motivation etc.) even more coverage liable to elicit copycat attacks.

It's a massive event so they're obviously going to cover it, but when everyone who knows what they're talking about is telling them they need to rethink the way they cover it or risk encouraging copycats, at a certain point they're just being irresponsible by continuing to go with the same old approach.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Anyone else noticing much more apathy on social media now? I've not seen a single mention from any Facebook friends about this, people are becoming sanitised to it.

[Yevrah]

We've basically reached the stage where this is part of our way of life in Western Europe now.

[GS]

It's almost as if there might be a reason why it's become more prevalent.

[Giggles]

You do nothing to stop something happening and it'll soon become the norm.

[Lewis]

Well, the increase in Islamophobia after Brexit/Donald Trump was always going to provoke a backlash.

[Shindig]

You do nothing to stop something happening and it'll soon become the norm.

The French do, to their credit.

[GS]

That's working well, isn't it.

[Dquincy]

Fuck sake mate is going there tomorrow already buried two mates don't need a third ffs.

For fucks sake, don't be that guy.

[John]

Another whopper has blown himself up in Barcelona while trying to build a bomb.

[Offshore Toon]

Islam needs a proper counter-culture.
Check out Taqwacore (and the book The Taqwacores that started it all).

[Adramelch]

Police also killed 3 people (and injured a 4th) in Tarragona, all of them apparently wearing explosives.

[Spikey M]

Why are the media still referring to them as "so called Islamic State"?

What the fuck is the point?

It's fucking irritating, Isn't it? Everything is 'so called', but you don't have a so called biscuit with your so called tea in so called Great Britain.

[McAvennie]

Inevitably, all of the newspaper have gone big on it on the front pages thus affording the act (and the killer, their motivation etc.) even more coverage liable to elicit copycat attacks.

Doesn't make sense to me that these guys see a headline and think "that's a cracking idea, let's try that!"

Makes more sense that they are already radicalised, and know that they can hire a truck much more easily than they can build a bomb.

Maybe if the newspapers didn't report any news no bad stuff would happen anywhere?

[Mazuuurk]

It's fucking irritating, Isn't it? Everything is 'so called', but you don't have a so called biscuit with your so called tea in so called Great Britain.

Isnt that because they dont want to 'aknowledge'' them as a state? I know a lot of politicians just call them Daesh because apparently they dont like that (IS that is).

[Lofty]

Anyone else noticing much more apathy on social media now? I've not seen a single mention from any Facebook friends about this, people are becoming sanitised to it.

Both sides could argue victory really, terrorists that they've made it a regular part of life, or us that could argue that everyone will just risk it for a biscuit while the drone strikes roll on unabated.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Isnt that because they dont want to 'aknowledge'' them as a state? I know a lot of politicians just call them Daesh because apparently they dont like that (IS that is).

It's because they don't want to be seen as suggesting that that state represents Islam.

[GS]

We appear to be at the stage where we have a minute's silence, flags at half mast, and 'moving' rallies of people showing they 'aren't afraid'.

[phonics]

GS, I'm pretty sure I ask you and Yev this every time it comes up because you're very critical of 'the cycle'

What should be done instead? How should people react?

[Giggles]

I don't know why they're not afraid.

[Magic]

I think this is a pretty cool twist, the whole vehicle thing. So much easier and effective than making bombs and shit. Nobody saw it coming either and it's almost impossible to stop, short of pedestrianising every single city centre.

[phonics]

short of pedestrianising every single city centre.

:drool:

Guildford did it decades back #TheProgressiveCity

[Magic]

I'd have no qualms with it, as long as they provided decent parking outside and had a dedicated park and ride bus service in operation.

[Yevrah]

GS, I'm pretty sure I ask you and Yev this every time it comes up because you're very critical of 'the cycle'

What should be done instead? How should people react?

I think there needs to be an appreciation of the dire nature of the situation and not a continual rehash of "we're not afraid", "it won't change us" etc. Which is manifestly not true. If it won't change us, for example, why are there now barriers on London bridge?

Throughout this whole issue there's been a complete disconnect with the reality of the situation, starting with "it has nothing to do with Islam" to the tired trodden stock response we see now time and time again.

[John]

Even pedestrianised city centres need a way to let vehicles in for deliveries and the like. All they'd need to do is steal a council or delivery van and all that planning and expenditure means fuck all.

[Magic]

I think there needs to be an appreciation of the dire nature of the situation and not a continual rehash of "we're not afraid", "it won't change us" etc. Which is manifestly not true. If it won't change us, for example, why are there now barriers on London bridge?

Throughout this whole issue there's been a complete disconnect with the reality of the situation, starting with "it has nothing to do with Islam" to the tired trodden stock response we see now time and time again.

Lol some barriers on a really busy bridge is hardly a 7PM curfew is it ffs.

[Magic]

Even pedestrianised city centres need a way to let vehicles in for deliveries and the like. All they'd need to do is steal a council or delivery van and all that planning and expenditure means fuck all.

Some barriers and a secret password would prevent that.

[phonics]

I think there needs to be an appreciation of the dire nature of the situation and not a continual rehash of "we're not afraid", "it won't change us" etc. Which is manifestly not true. If it won't change us, for example, why are there now barriers on London bridge?

Sorry has your way of life been changed by a concrete barrier being put up on London Bridge?


Even pedestrianised city centres need a way to let vehicles in for deliveries and the like. All they'd need to do is steal a council or delivery van and all that planning and expenditure means fuck all.

Guildford just has fuck off bollards and a bell that someone else buzzes you in with. Sure you can start kidnapping peoples families and stuff but that's already making the plan 3 layers more complicated.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Sorry has your way of life been changed by a concrete barrier being put up on London Bridge?

Isn't this the exact argument you are normally on the other side of when it comes to 'security'?

[Yevrah]

Sorry has your way of life been changed by a concrete barrier being put up on London Bridge?

It's an example of the way things have changed, no matter how small.

It goes back to the argument I was having with Henners (and his car accident statistics) last time, in that this is only the tip of the iceberg.

[Yevrah]

Lol some barriers on a really busy bridge is hardly a 7PM curfew is it ffs.

I'm not saying it is, but it is changing us and it's simply wrong to suggest otherwise.

[Magic]

Isn't this the exact argument you are normally on the other side of when it comes to 'security'?

That sort of security isn't a direct impingement on privacy.

EDIT: infringement?

[phonics]

Isn't this the exact argument you are normally on the other side of when it comes to 'security'?

Infrastructure security vs Intelligence Security you mean? Technically I guess but one can be used adversely to attack people and one is a prevention method of attack against people. I don't think Police should be armed but I do think they should get to wear stab proof vests.

[Pepe]

short of pedestrianising every single city centre.

:drool: x2

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'll be honest, I'm dead against it.

[Lewis]

According to the internet (https://twitter.com/rcallimachi/status/898511352381280256), what happened was Plan C. Plan A was to fill a lorry with gas bottles and blow it up, but they didn't have the paperwork to hire a bigger vehicle; and Plan B was to put the gas bottles in two smaller vans and then blow those up, but they didn't know how to do it. So then they just ran a van through a street instead. It sounds like the West has finally met its match.

[Magic]

It's concerning, just wait until the Muzzies start getting C1 and stuff on their licenses.

[Spikey M]

Isnt that because they dont want to 'aknowledge'' them as a state? I know a lot of politicians just call them Daesh because apparently they dont like that (IS that is).

No, it's because they want to imply that 'they ain't no Muslims, bruv'.

[Jimmy Floyd]

As ever what needs to happen is there needs to be an intellectual line drawn between Islam as a whole and Salafism (and explanations made as to how the two are related), so that people actually understand what the spackers believe. Salafi-jihadists are basically like the puritans in the 1600s, or Amish, or whoever in terms of rejecting all advances made since the 7th century.

The establishment won't do this though because it neither sells papers, nor settles agendas.

[Disco]

The heartening part of all this is that they were unable to work out how to blow up a van full of things that explode relatively easily.

[Magic]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40979128

What a total fucking bad ass. :drool:

[Yevrah]

Possibly another one, this time in Finland.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40978446

[Pepe]

Someone should start a new thread for that one.

[Spikey M]

Yeah, start a thread for it Yev.

[Yevrah]

120 gas canisters.

One can only imagine what that would have resulted in had the perps not been complete fucking tools.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40990927

[Magic]

Fuck you Pert.

[Lewis]

Blowing up that stupid unfinished church would have been some effort, and easily their 'best' since 11/9.

[Magic]

I think the Ariana one was a decent shout for the specific kid factor.

[Yevrah]

I've been to that Church - don't worry, this isn't a story about how I had a close shave with a terrorist based death - was stupid enough to pay whatever ludicrous amount of Euros it is they charge to get in and there is literally nothing to do inside it.

[phonics]

It's a church... what did you expect to do inside it? Couple of loops on the indoor rollercoaster?

[Yevrah]

Ah, yeast infection strikes.

[Yevrah]

What I meant was... as far as churches go, it's a fucking boring one inside.

[Adramelch]

It's definitely not worth the money you have to pay.

[phonics]

It's a church. None of them are.

[mugbull]

It's a church. None of them are.

Of course they can be, you wankstain. Have you been to the Notre Dame? It's fucking overwhelming and definitely worth the cost.

[McAvennie]

What I meant was... as far as churches go, it's a fucking boring one inside.

I went in the evening with the setting sunlight hitting the stained glass and it looked phenomenal, and for me was one of he highlights of a long weekend in Barcelona, but each to their own

[Yevrah]

I thought the outside was quality and a made for a cracking backdrop to tapas and a beer, but as far as the internals go, those in Rome pissed all over it for me.

[Adramelch]

It's a church. None of them are.

Other than the vitraux which can be really good depending on the time of day you go, the rest is substandard as far as churches go. And it suffers from the fact that you've already seen the exterior which is grandiose and unique (and unfinished). And you have to pay something silly like 20 euros to go in so you expect something spectacular.

To put it in perspective I believe it's not even the most impressive church in Barcelona (still talking about the inside of course). I felt the cathedral was more impressive.

[Yevrah]

Yeah, I didn't benefit from any sunlight hitting the windows. :moop:

[Pepe]

Of course they can be, you wankstain. Have you been to the Notre Dame? It's fucking overwhelming and definitely worth the cost.

Pretty sure I wasn't charged when I went.

[Pen]

Not sure the attack here was motivated by religion, but we should hear more about that when they start questioning the attacker soon. Felt a bit odd having a 'terrorist attack' here, but I have to say that I wasn't really fazed by this at all. There was a similar attack in Russia too during the weekend. Took three minutes from our police to detain the fucker after getting the call :cool:

[ScousePig]

The interior of churches and cathedrals are great to see. I foolishly thought I could just pay on the gate for that one in Barcelona, and by the time I got there couldn't go in that day, so I'm glad it's nothing special inside.

The interior of those in the Vatican are probably the most impressive I've seen. Externally Florence is right up there.

[mugbull]

Pretty sure I wasn't charged when I went.

Well I was. Maybe it's because you're Mexican

[Raoul Duke]

I thought Sagrada Familia was pretty awesome when I went. The outside is amazing and internally it's very impressive. The way it has different areas representing the different seasons and the stained glass windows lighting up the place, I thought it was cool (for a church).

The one in Florence was outstanding externally but totally boring inside.

[mugbull]

I'd say that historically relevant churches/cathedrals are the coolest thing man-made things you can sightsee. They give insight into the era in which they were built, the culture that built them, the religion that they were built for (assuming we include Orthodox churches and other things), and they have a ghostly mystical aura about them that always gives me the chills. Add to that the fact that they would generally be the focal point of a city/civilization when built and so tend to be the crowning architectural achievement of wherever it is they are.

[Shindig]

Yup. Although you can extend that to all architecture. Imagine in 60 years time when we look at all these uniform, open plan office blocks and their 'glass everywhere' approach with some kind of reverence.

[Magic]

The one in Seville is breathtaking.

[mugbull]

Yup. Although you can extend that to all architecture. Imagine in 60 years time when we look at all these uniform, open plan office blocks and their 'glass everywhere' approach with some kind of reverence.

If a single office building was the culmination of some incredibly powerful king's reign and he poured more money into it than any other building in the history of his civilization, then fuck yeah I'd think it was pretty cool.

[niko_cee]

Like that place Apple are building then.

[phonics]

That thing is fucking terrifying.

[mugbull]

Yeah, exactly. Shit like that is the modern equivalent

[Pepe]

What times to be alive.

[Magic]

They've caught him.

[Yevrah]

Should that be shot him?

[Magic]

At the time it was caught.

[Shindig]

The only way justice could've been better served is if one of the 20 cop cars ran him down.

[Yevrah]

We need to be catching more alive really.

The power they could have in stopping young people doing the same if we could catch them and turn them would be huge.

[Lewis]

What, because you would let them out after three years to tour schools?

[GS]

No, it wouldn't. They'd be denounced as traitors and the rest of them would carry on. The best thing to do is to take them out and deprive them of a public platform for their shite.

[Yevrah]

What, because you would let them out after three years to tour schools?

Three? Try thirty and seriously supervised even then.

We're stuck with this, it's here for the long term and it's only going to get worse. Radical solutions are needed.

[Yevrah]

No, it wouldn't. They'd be denounced as traitors and the rest of them would carry on. The best thing to do is to take them out and deprive them of a public platform for their shite.

I think somebody who has actually done it, denouncing their actions when they truly mean that is going to carry a lot more weight than Hazel Blears fronting up Prevent.

Pie in the Sky that we'd ever get to that situation perhaps, but we sure as shit won't if they're all dead.

[John]

Former gang members are better at keeping people out of gangs than the police ever could be, and in many ways this lot are basically a gang, so it's definitely worth exploring.

It's unlikely to actually work given the divine promises they're acting in pursuit of, but nothing else seems to be working.

[Lewis]

Three? Try thirty and seriously supervised even then.

We're stuck with this, it's here for the long term and it's only going to get worse. Radical solutions are needed.

That's what I was thinking. They would still have to serve life sentences, so then your offer to the idiots contemplating it is basically what it is now.

[Magic]

Former gang members are better at keeping people out of gangs than the police ever could be, and in many ways this lot are basically a gang, so it's definitely worth exploring.

It's unlikely to actually work given the divine promises they're acting in pursuit of, but nothing else seems to be working.

:D

Fucking hell.

[Yevrah]

I was watching this earlier, which I missed at the time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-ewj3LHGVY

When Murray (who I'm increasingly become bored of as he has no actual proposed solutions) cites the "John Lennon" response, he hits the nail on the head. We've seen it in Barcelona again this week and it's literally all we have.

[Shindig]

What, because you would let them out after three years to tour schools?

"Hey, kids. Che Guevara was bad news. STOP BUYING THE T-SHIRTS!"

[GS]

Murray's point remains relevant, though. It's a problem which, if not created, has been massively exacerbated by a refusal to confront some basic uncomfortable truths. One need only look at the reaction to the migrant crisis to see that. Critical thinking ceases in the rush to be seen as the 'most compassionate' or 'most tolerating'.

[Shindig]

Calling it hate is a bad start. Islamophobia doesn't have to be a blanket statement. You've got a right to fear the extremist elements. Much like how you can fear the cross-burning Christians of the Klan. We need to get more moderate figureheads on TV as well. Rather than just one popping up with a soundbite. We gave Hamza and Chowdry way too much TV time in the past.

[Henry]

Three? Try thirty and seriously supervised even then.

We're stuck with this, it's here for the long term and it's only going to get worse. Radical solutions are needed.

You always say this. Which ones?

[phonics]

Murray's point remains relevant, though. It's a problem which, if not created, has been massively exacerbated by a refusal to confront some basic uncomfortable truths. One need only look at the reaction to the migrant crisis to see that. Critical thinking ceases in the rush to be seen as the 'most compassionate' or 'most tolerating'.

We literally caused the migrant crisis. Not Germany, France, Italy, Greece. We did and the US did. The idea that they shouldn't have been let in is ridiculous. It's not about compassion. It's about us fucking up and paying for it.

[Yevrah]

You always say this. Which ones?

I proposed one upthread. :cab:

[GS]

We literally caused the migrant crisis. Not Germany, France, Italy, Greece. We did and the US did. The idea that they shouldn't have been let in is ridiculous. It's not about compassion. It's about us fucking up and paying for it.

It's this sort of risible stupidity that gets us where we are.

[phonics]

We created a non state on the Syrian border. Locked up all the top top nutters in the same prison where ISIS was formulated, let them escape and then funded rebel groups that were aligned with ISIS but against Assad. It is quite literally our creation.

[GS]

We really are fucked if this is the extent of critical thinking the populace at large can engage in.

[phonics]

What a strong takedown of the argument. That's me sussed. ISIS just popped into existence out of nowhere, no-one could have seen it coming.

[GS]

No, you're just an idiot who's swallowed the anti Western line prevalent on "social media".

[phonics]

What's your pro-western line? This was entirely unavoidable because they're savages?

[Henry]

I proposed one upthread. :cab:

Catch them and turn them? That's your big solution?
How do you turn them?

[GS]

Nothing a stern beating wouldn't see to, presumably.

[John]

Catch them and turn them? That's your big solution?
How do you turn them?

This is the same plebtastic response we get from Bruh and Mert any time someone questions guns in America.

You don't need to propose a full solution of your own to acknowledge that what we're doing now isn't working.

[phonics]

While I do believe it's a good idea (and one that does exist today to a certain extent) I wouldn't trust any of the high level nutters to be in a room with anyone and if we did ever arrest them they should be serving solitary confinement for the rest of their lives.

I would like to see more of them arrested and face trial rather than shot as it leads to martyrdom but I can understand the reticence of approaching these people rather than acting with force.

[Lewis]

The 'Migrant Crisis' is more to do with Libya than Syria, since Syrians are actual refugees; but yeah that was us (don't let loser France off the hook).

[phonics]

If we're including Libya then yeah, France goes in the 'get fucked and deal with it' section. I can't believe you've been sucked in by anti-Western propaganda via 'social media' though Lewis. How the mighty have fallen.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

When Murray (who I'm increasingly become bored of as he has no actual proposed solutions) cites the "John Lennon" response, he hits the nail on the head. We've seen it in Barcelona again this week and it's literally all we have.
Who does though? Look at the shit he gets for suggesting less Islam might be a start. You can't even have the conversation with most people without being labelled a hate monger.

[phonics]

What the fuck does less Islam mean? Of course you're going to be called a hate monger if that's your starting point.

[mugbull]

What the fuck does less Islam mean? Of course you're going to be called a hate monger if that's your starting point.

Chill out. You mong more hate in general than most people on this planet

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

How about at least slowing the rate of migration into this continent from backward (Islamic in this instance) cultures. How many migrants from the likes of sub-Saharan Africa have come to Europe?

If wanting less Islam is 'hate' then the only way forward is to allow the same rate or more, otherwise it's wrongthink?

[phonics]

So you don't mean less Islam as in limiting the practice of Islam. You mean less people who believe in the Islamic religion. Just generally. Not Sallafist Islam, or Wahhabist, just Islam? And it's immigrants, mainly from Somalia, not those born in the country that are the cause of it? (despite obvious evidence to the contrary)

I'm just trying to understand where you stand based on your entire belief system of how to fix this being described in two words. One of them being a religion practiced by over 1.5 billion people.

[Pepe]

Let less people from 'Islam' come in so that the ones born in Europe stop doing bad things. What's so hard to understand?

[Magic]

We should put restrictions on people born in Islam.

[Disco]

I watched SummerIslam last night, do I have to leave?

[phonics]

We should put restrictions on people born in Islam.

Our civil service is such shit these days we'd end up putting a blockade on Iceland instead.

[Pepe]

The level of understanding shown here Islamentable.

[Boydy]

What the fuck does less Islam mean? Of course you're going to be called a hate monger if that's your starting point.

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