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Toby
24-09-2015, 03:40 PM
New board, new opportunity to have an easily searchable archive of Question Time discussions. Of course, if activity is slow or if people think it's overkill, I'll change title for a general thread, but we may as well give it a go.

Tonight's panel is:

Yanis Varoufakis, the former Greek finance minister
Ken Clark,Conservative former chancellor
Chris Bryant, Labour shadow leader
Suzanne Evans, UKIP deputy chair
Julia Hartley-Brewer, columnist/broadcaster

Lewis
24-09-2015, 03:51 PM
'Did the panel lol at them Muslims?'

Without wanting to sound like a FUCKING CRANK, they really need to start evening up the Europe voices over the coming years (especially when they're definitely going to be talking about migrants for an hour). I'm not entirely sure what Julia Hartley Brewer thinks of the European Union, but the other three are notorious suckers of its cock, so ol' UKIP might get a bit isolated.

MartinSAFC
24-09-2015, 04:09 PM
'Did the panel lol at them Muslims?'

Without wanting to sound like a FUCKING CRANK, they really need to start evening up the Europe voices over the coming years (especially when they're definitely going to be talking about migrants for an hour). I'm not entirely sure what Julia Hartley Brewer thinks of the European Union, but the other three are notorious suckers of its cock, so ol' UKIP might get a bit isolated.

I'm pretty sure Julia Hartley-Brewer is anti-EU.

Boydy
24-09-2015, 04:14 PM
Surely Varoufakis doesn't love the EU that much now?

Jimmy Floyd
24-09-2015, 05:26 PM
When the UKIP representative is contesting for the title of most impressive on the panel, you know it's an edition to miss.

phonics
24-09-2015, 05:30 PM
Julia Hartley Brewer was good as a posh yummy mummy about a decade ago on HIGNFY but outside of that shes worthless.

Boydy
24-09-2015, 05:35 PM
I can see why you don't like Varoufakis (although surely you could admit someone is impressive even if you don't agree with their views) but Ken Clarke is good. How the hell is some UKIP non-entity more impressive than him?

Grandstand
24-09-2015, 05:40 PM
Was going to say Clarke is usually good value on QT. Doesn't always trot out the party line and provides genuine insight from time to time. Varoufakis will be interesting at least. I kind of wish they had overseas politicians on a bit more often to give a bit of a different perspective on things though I guess if they aren't household names (of which very few would be in this country) then they're unlikely to be paid much heed.

Jimmy Floyd
24-09-2015, 05:48 PM
I can see why you don't like Varoufakis (although surely you could admit someone is impressive even if you don't agree with their views) but Ken Clarke is good. How the hell is some UKIP non-entity more impressive than him?

Varoufakis is a shit maths teacher, Ken Clarke is a pompous arse and Suzanne Evans is the best person UKIP have (including Nigel). It's a close race, whereas normally the UKIP person looks like they've brought a discarded needle to a gunfight.

Boydy
24-09-2015, 06:54 PM
H'okay.

:*****)

phonics
24-09-2015, 07:14 PM
Something that may interest you Boydy, did you know that Varoufakis helped create the virtual economy you see on Steam?


A side effect of this ‘transformation’ was that my inbox became impenetrable to the human eye, receiving as I did thousands of unsolicited non-spam messages from people with a wide range of fixations – from sharing their world view, to seeking advice on what to do with their investment in some pig farm in the north of Greece, to offering me a share in some far-fetched business venture.When I read the opening line of the email in question, my finger almost pushed the delete button:
“I’m the president of a videogame company (www.valvesoftware.com).” (http://www.valvesoftware.com).”)

http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/economics/it-all-began-with-a-strange-email/

He did a whole set of blogs on Valve including this one about their corporate structure, very interesting.

http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/economics/why-valve-or-what-do-we-need-corporations-for-and-how-does-valves-management-structure-fit-into-todays-corporate-world/

Yevrah
24-09-2015, 08:52 PM
Not a bad panel that.

QE Harold Flair
24-09-2015, 09:42 PM
This balanced audience is superb.

Yevrah
24-09-2015, 09:44 PM
Ken Clarke's suit is going to give me an epileptic fit.

Boydy
24-09-2015, 09:45 PM
Is that new crying smiley gone?

Yevrah
24-09-2015, 09:54 PM
Does this country want a larger muslim demographic?

QE Harold Flair
24-09-2015, 09:56 PM
Wooo for emotive claptrap!

QE Harold Flair
24-09-2015, 10:35 PM
Is this Greek twat an outsider? just wondering.

Yevrah
24-09-2015, 10:37 PM
Good ep that.

Charlotte Church is a left wing campaigner? 'Voice of an angel' Charlotte Church?

Boydy
24-09-2015, 10:47 PM
Yep, she is these days.

Lewis
24-09-2015, 10:52 PM
You wonder what the point is. By all means go along, but nobody is going to be drawn to it through her, and she comes across as a bit thick. You're better off just letting Owen Jones headline every whinge going.

Toby
25-09-2015, 01:12 PM
Ken Clark's ornery response to the refugee question was brilliant. I love when you get somebody on who sits quietly while others bicker and then sums up why they've been speaking a load of simplistic nonsense.

Toby
25-09-2015, 01:48 PM
And Varoufakis' appearance was worth it if only for somebody finally speaking up against the idiotic equating of national economies to beer money budgets.

(Plus he was pretty great all round)

Offshore Toon
26-09-2015, 09:45 PM
I'm about 30 minutes in and this Greek twat seems to be getting claps for leaning back and just 'giving the eyes'. The amount of twats that think the answer is letting everybody in is ridiculous.

Yevrah
01-10-2015, 09:52 PM
Anyone on this?

I'm 20 minutes behind. Just starting now.

Lewis
01-10-2015, 09:55 PM
Stephen 'Buster' Crabb moves and speaks like Ed Miliband.

Yevrah
01-10-2015, 10:02 PM
Either even the left think it's sensible to have a deterrent, or this is a more right wing audience than Question Time's seen since I've been watching.

Toby
01-10-2015, 10:07 PM
Either even the left think it's sensible to have a deterrent, or this is a more right wing audience than Question Time's seen since I've been watching.

The majority still supports it, I think. It tends to narrowly win through in polling with a big whack of don't knows.

Scotland is generally the only home nation where opposition has polled higher - I'm not sure if the SNP's position (as one of few parties to support disarmament) is the tail wagging the dog or just reacting to that.

Also, a mod could edit this title to a general Question Time thread. I don't seem to have the power.

Lewis
01-10-2015, 10:07 PM
Devolution has failed. Shut it all down.

Toby
01-10-2015, 10:10 PM
It does seem inevitable that it either goes well and you get demand for full independence, or it goes to shit and you chuck it all in. It's sort of pointless duplication otherwise.

Lewis
01-10-2015, 10:13 PM
I'm sure Charles Moore just said 'Scotch nationalists'.

Lewis
01-10-2015, 10:19 PM
Shut up, Charlotte. There's a good lass.

Yevrah
01-10-2015, 10:22 PM
Charlotte Church really is the poster girl for a generation that's had absolutely no exposure to what true hardship is.

Boydy
01-10-2015, 10:23 PM
Fuck off, Kinnock. There should be a ban on MP's families working in politics.

Yevrah
01-10-2015, 10:28 PM
"A third of Welsh children living in poverty".

Seriously, fuck right off. How can these sort of wankers peddle this absolute shite and get away with it?

Toby
01-10-2015, 10:29 PM
Charlotte Church really is the poster girl for a generation that's had absolutely no exposure to what true hardship is.

When was the last generation of Brits who did? Did yours?

Yevrah
01-10-2015, 10:32 PM
Not mine, but I talked to my grandparents about it, hence the exposure comment and my parents lived through the cold war and I talked to them about that.

It strikes me that the current generation don't know how good they've got it. Which isn't to say it's perfect, but it sure as shit isn't the case that a third of Welsh kids are living in poverty, for example.

Yevrah
01-10-2015, 10:38 PM
The bloke with the shit beard and crap jacket seems not to appreciate that the Iraqi army is the most spineless army in the world.

Toby
01-10-2015, 10:38 PM
Not mine, but I talked to my grandparents about it, hence the exposure comment and my parents lived through the cold war and I talked to them about that.


Most of the generation you're referring to will also have living relatives - in many cases grandparents - who lived through World War II. I'm sure the majority of their parents also lived through the Cold War, but I'm not sure what "true hardship" that brought to Britain.

Yevrah
01-10-2015, 10:39 PM
Ok, hardship or fear.

Lewis
01-10-2015, 10:46 PM
The only thing previous generations had on us is free university (for a minority) and more jobs (most of which were shit and/or dangerous). Everything else is miles better now.

Lewis
01-10-2015, 10:52 PM
Wait. Sorry. Less Muslims as well.

Toby
01-10-2015, 11:01 PM
And the generation before would have said the same of them. It seems like a nonsense criticism to me - things being better than they once were isn't an excuse for them not being better still. The poverty thing is overly simplistic nonsense and it obviously isn't 'real' poverty in global terms, but on those criteria Britain has higher levels of 'poverty' than nearly all comparable nations.

Boydy
01-10-2015, 11:12 PM
Surely housing is the huge obvious issue here? Past generations had it pretty easy in comparison with it.

Lewis
01-10-2015, 11:23 PM
In certain areas. Remember interest rates used to be mental (my parents' first mortgage was at 17.5%), which over the lifetime of the mortgage would work out more than you would pay now.

Boydy
01-10-2015, 11:25 PM
I wasn't just talking about buying. Renting used to be a lot cheaper than it is now and social housing was actually a thing.

Lewis
01-10-2015, 11:30 PM
And hardly anyone owned their own home. Hit 'n' miss I suppose.

Boydy
01-10-2015, 11:32 PM
If renting's cheap enough, who cares about owning?

QE Harold Flair
01-10-2015, 11:34 PM
Surely housing is the huge obvious issue here? Past generations had it pretty easy in comparison with it.

Yes, and a net migration of ridiculous numbers every year has seen that it has become the number 1 issue. You can't build your way out of 300k+ per year.

Lewis
01-10-2015, 11:38 PM
If renting's cheap enough, who cares about owning?

People who don't want to see assets concentrated in the hands of a wealthy elite. :baz:


Yes, and a net migration of ridiculous numbers every year has seen that it has become the number 1 issue. You can't build your way out of 300k+ per year.

You can. We just don't.

QE Harold Flair
01-10-2015, 11:42 PM
You can. We just don't.

Of course you can't. That's 5-10 times the levels of what it was prior to 'New Labour'. What reason would there be not to if it was that easy?

Lewis
02-10-2015, 12:34 AM
It's easy to build a house (and to recruit foreign workers to build them). It's not to easy to get permission to build one, as house-building companies consistently moan about, through a combination of restrictive planning laws and a load of land going to waste.

QE Harold Flair
02-10-2015, 12:53 AM
You're kind of refuting your own claim, then.

Lewis
02-10-2015, 01:11 AM
It would be pretty easy for the government to relax planning laws and make it easier for house-builders (even councils) to actually build houses. You seemed to be suggesting that it simply isn't possible to build enough houses.

On a related note, I would like to see some models done on how farm subsidies effect all of this. If vast swathes of farmland suddenly became unprofitable then the market would be awash with cheap land in handy areas, and then you wouldn't have to battle the council for a lifetime to stick eight houses up on a fucking horse field like in my town.

GS
02-10-2015, 08:01 PM
If renting's cheap enough, who cares about owning?

Owning a home means you have an asset to sell. Renting leaves you with fuck all. Ownership is always preferable.

Yevrah
02-10-2015, 08:02 PM
It's less of having an asset to sell, more being able to live somewhere for 'free' when you don't want to/can't work anymore.

GS
02-10-2015, 08:06 PM
It's less of having an asset to sell, more being able to live somewhere for 'free' when you don't want to/can't work anymore.

Also that.

We could have more social housing if we didn't have a demand-side problem. Not that anyone wants to recognise this because it's RACIST.

Yevrah
02-10-2015, 08:09 PM
At this moment in time we probably don't need more social housing, but not doing so is the most short sighted thing imaginable.

Successive governments have been a complete shambles on this and we're sat on a ticking time bomb as a result, one that's probably going to have catastrophic consequences in a few decades.

Jimmy Floyd
08-10-2015, 09:45 PM
Priti Patel is fucking shit. Apparently we had 'open borders' under Labour, and the way in which our society is not cohesive because of immigration is 'numbers'.

Lisa Nandy then makes some reasonable counter points, but her applause comes for using the word 'offensive'.

QE Harold Flair
08-10-2015, 09:46 PM
Round of applause for 'being offended'

QE Harold Flair
08-10-2015, 09:52 PM
Doctors and nurses!

QE Harold Flair
15-10-2015, 09:44 PM
The left's fear mongering

:happycry:

The Merse
15-10-2015, 09:54 PM
It's less of having an asset to sell, more being able to live somewhere for 'free' when you don't want to/can't work anymore.

This. It's the only real motivation for me, aside from also wanting to make money out of BTL's.

The Merse
15-10-2015, 09:57 PM
At this moment in time we probably don't need more social housing, but not doing so is the most short sighted thing imaginable.

Successive governments have been a complete shambles on this and we're sat on a ticking time bomb as a result, one that's probably going to have catastrophic consequences in a few decades.

Public expectation and town/city planning isn't helping either - the resistance to high rise in many places holds things back somewhat. Build up. Up, dammit.

Turn everywhere into Glasgow c. 1967.

QE Harold Flair
15-10-2015, 10:01 PM
I knew he'd have to play the Jew card sooner or later. I don't recall any Jews blowing everyone up or threatening to flood Europe with terrorists.

QE Harold Flair
15-10-2015, 10:09 PM
Not usually a fan Of Liddle but he's demolishing this cunt here.

QE Harold Flair
15-10-2015, 10:12 PM
Why can't the left ever make points without getting emotional?

Lewis
15-10-2015, 10:12 PM
I would have thought you would have been a fan (I'm not being clever there). I think he's great. Probably gives it to the London Wankers better than anybody.

QE Harold Flair
15-10-2015, 10:15 PM
Fuck me have they just invited every Corbyn-mania halfwit they could find? Listen to the animal noises after every sensible point against mass immigration.

Liddle's delivery isn't usually my thing but he's donning it tonight, in spite of the emotional wrecks disapproving. Shama had no comeback when Liddle said it was because he's a different class.

The last 6 from the audience have all been pro mass-immigration. Pathetic.

Lewis
15-10-2015, 10:17 PM
He always comes across as a bit awkward on telly, but his articles are usually class.

QE Harold Flair
15-10-2015, 10:36 PM
'A strong leader is someone who leads for the people' - I'm sure he won't mind if we allow much less immigrants in, then. Despite this baying left wing mob on QT, that is the prevailing view of the UK population.

phonics
16-10-2015, 09:58 AM
Did a woman who voted Tory break down in tears saying 'How dare you cut tax credits?' because if so, that's :D as fuck. What a dumb arse.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/16/tax-credits-question-time-labour-conservative?CMP=twt_gu

Yevrah
17-10-2015, 12:01 PM
Got so much tv from the week to catch up on, starting with this. :cool:

Yevrah
17-10-2015, 12:07 PM
Fuck me, Simon Schama's spoken for about 5 minutes and literally said nothing.

Yevrah
17-10-2015, 12:37 PM
The fucking state of this audience. Jesus.

Henry
17-10-2015, 12:53 PM
Did a woman who voted Tory break down in tears saying 'How dare you cut tax credits?' because if so, that's :D as fuck. What a dumb arse.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/16/tax-credits-question-time-labour-conservative?CMP=twt_gu

Why is she a dumb arse? It's a frontal attack on people who already quite close to the poverty line.

Boydy
17-10-2015, 12:56 PM
Because she voted for the party that's doing that to her. And it was quite obvious that it would end up happening despite their lies.

Not that I'd necessarily agree with that line of thinking but that's what he means, I imagine.

phonics
17-10-2015, 01:19 PM
Why is she a dumb arse? It's a frontal attack on people who already quite close to the poverty line.

If you self interestedly voted Tory assuming that they wouldn't burn the 'middle' class just those 'scroungers' then I have little sympathy for you when their plans do affect you.

"They came for the ... and I did not speak up" etc.

Magic
17-10-2015, 01:20 PM
Middle class don't claim tax credits, you fool.

phonics
17-10-2015, 01:27 PM
Hence why middle was in quotation marks. Harold levels of desperation for an argument here.

Magic
17-10-2015, 01:56 PM
She clearly was always a scrounger and voted Tory because she didn't trust Labour on immigration etc

QE Harold Flair
17-10-2015, 01:58 PM
http://losbeauty.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/obsession.jpg


As for the woman - why isn't the government there to help just me and my exact circumstances!!!

Henry
17-10-2015, 02:01 PM
It's all of the low paid, not just her.

QE Harold Flair
17-10-2015, 02:05 PM
No, it isn't. Those not on tax credits will probably be better off once the minimum wage comes in.

Yevrah
17-10-2015, 02:12 PM
Probably?

Either they are or they're not?

QE Harold Flair
17-10-2015, 02:33 PM
It depends on their circumstances, obviously. 'The poor' isn't a term that describes a whole swathe of people.

GS
17-10-2015, 02:37 PM
They won't be, but we simply have to move away from a scenario where the state are required to top up wages constantly because private companies can get away with paying shit money.

It's going to take time, but it's the right thing to do if you're serious about tackling low pay in the medium-term, rather than issuing a series of sticking plasters.

Henry
17-10-2015, 02:44 PM
Harold is economically and mathematically illiterate. The increase in the minimum wage will not make up for the tax credit cuts, "probably" or otherwise.

Employers may indeed be forced to pay more, but the net effect of the measure is that the worker recieves less.

I agree that poor people shouldn't have voted for the Tories, since they were liable to be telling lies, but I don't agree with belittling them for being taken in by a sophisticated and pervasive media operation.

QE Harold Flair
17-10-2015, 02:47 PM
Henry is not reading what I wrote. You do realise that there's a great swathe of people on low wages who don't qualify for or use tax credits, don't you?

Yevrah
22-10-2015, 12:52 AM
Bit early I know, but fuck it.


David Dimbleby presents topical debate from Grimsby. Panellists are Conservative Nadhim Zahawi, Labour's former home secretary Alan Johnson, leader of UKIP Nigel Farage, writer Germaine Greer and businesswoman and winner of 'The Apprentice' Michelle Dewberry.

IN BUSINESS looks like it's sunk to new lows with Dewberry's inclusion on the panel. Her Wikipedia page hasn't been updated in 6 years.

Lewis
22-10-2015, 01:04 AM
The only explanation I can think of is that the BBC still thinks Humberside exists (abolished 1996), and because that included Grimsby and Hull, they've decided that she is the best-known 'local' IN BUSINESS.

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 02:09 AM
There will be lots of animal noises emanating from the right-on, middle classes in the audience in this one, I fear.

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 02:25 AM
The BBC is “a publicly-funded urban organisation with an abnormally large proportion of younger people, of people in ethnic minorities and almost certainly of gay people, compared with the population at large”.


All this, he said, “creates an innate liberal bias inside the BBC”.

“It’s a bit like walking into a Sunday meeting of the Flat Earth Society. As they discuss great issues of the day, they discuss them from the point of view that the earth is flat.

“If someone says, ‘No, no, no, the earth is round!’, they think this person is an extremist. That’s what it’s like for someone with my right-of-centre views working inside the BBC.”





– Jeff Randall (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6764779.stm), former BBC business editor



By far the most popular and widely read newspapers at the BBC are The Guardian and The Independent. *Producers refer to them routinely for the line to take on *running stories, and for inspiration on which items to cover. In the later stages of my career, I lost count of the number of times I asked a producer for a brief on a story, only to be handed a copy of The Guardian and told ‘it’s all in there’.

– Peter Sissons (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1349506/Left-wing-bias-Its-written-BBCs-DNA-says-Peter-Sissons.html), Former BBC News and Current Affairs presenter


“In the BBC I joined 30 years ago [as a production trainee, in 1979], there was, in much of current affairs, in terms of people’s personal politics, which were quite vocal, a massive bias to the left. The organisation did struggle then with impartiality. And journalistically, staff were quite mystified by the early years of Thatcher.

“Now it is a completely different generation. There is much less overt tribalism among the young journalists who work for the BBC. It is like the New Statesman, which used to be various shades of soft and hard left and is now more technocratic. We’re like that, too.”

– Mark Thomspon (http://www.newstatesman.com/uk-politics/2010/09/lecture-thompson-bbc-interview), former BBC Director General


“I do remember… the corridors of Broadcasting House were strewn with empty champagne bottles. I’ll always remember that”

– Jane Garvey (http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2007/05/defending-peter-allen-jane-garvey.html), Radio 4 presenter, recalling Tony Blair’s election victory in 1997


I absorbed and expressed all the accepted BBC attitudes: hostility to, or at least suspicion of, America, monarchy, government, capitalism, empire, banking and the defence establishment, and in favour of the Health Service, state welfare, the social sciences, the environment and state education. But perhaps our most powerful antagonism was directed at advertising. This is not surprising; commercial television was the biggest threat the BBC had ever had to face.

– Sir Antony Jay (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100123173/sir-antony-jay-slash-the-bbc-by-two-thirds/), former BBC producer and creator, inter alia, of “Yes, (Prime) Minister”


“We need to foster peculiarity, idiosyncrasy, stubborn-mindedness, left-of-centre thinking.”

– Ben Stephenson (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/organgrinder/2009/jul/16/ben-stephenson-tony-garner), BBC controller of drama commissioning

Toby
22-10-2015, 08:33 AM
The quote from Mark Thompson is a strange inclusion as it seems to disagree with the rest.

I also don't see any evidence of the BBC, at least in its outward facing stuff, being suspicious of or hostile to the monarchy, America or whoever is in government. It's very pro-establishment.

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 09:03 AM
Well those I quote obviously disagree. Not that I care what they think about the monarchy, but in what way are they pro-establishment if the establishment happen to be the right wing? I see no evidence of that.

phonics
22-10-2015, 09:04 AM
Well those I quote obviously disagree. Not that I care what they think about the monarchy, but in what way are they pro-establishment if the establishment happen to be the right wing? I see no evidence of that.

Nick Robinson would like to say hello?

Toby
22-10-2015, 09:07 AM
Well those I quote obviously disagree. Not that I care what they think about the monarchy, but in what way are they pro-establishment if the establishment happen to be the right wing? I see no evidence of that.

It's hard to answer since you don't think the Conservative party are particularly right wing.

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 09:08 AM
Government perceived as right wing, then. I don't think they are, but to the pinko lefties at the BBC, of course they are.

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 09:08 AM
Nick Robinson would like to say hello?

Tell him I said 'hi'?

Toby
22-10-2015, 09:10 AM
I don't see them as particularly critical of the current government, do you?

They seem to lap up their views on the economy pretty readily.

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 09:12 AM
Yes, I do. But more critical of any right-wing views in general. They go easier on the Tories than UKIP, for example. But they are clearly left-leaning. As I keep pointing out - week after week the QT audience is full of animal-noise making pinkos who are pro-mass immigration. This is clearly at odds with the majority opinion in this country.

Toby
22-10-2015, 09:16 AM
They completely accept Gideon's views on the deficit and therefore the need for austerity. They're more socially liberal than you or UKIP, but then so is the current government. I don't care of they're "more critical of any right wing views in general", because that doesn't change whether they're pro-Establishment or not.

phonics
22-10-2015, 09:19 AM
week after week the QT audience is full of animal-noise making pinkos who are pro-mass immigration.

Why do you always feel the need to dehumanise/slander those you don't agree with?

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 09:21 AM
They completely accept Gideon's views on the deficit and therefore the need for austerity.

Do they?


They're more socially liberal than you or UKIP, but then so is the current government. I don't care of they're "more critical of any right wing views in general", because that doesn't change whether they're pro-Establishment or not.

When they perceive the current government as right wing of course it matters. Anyway, since this is the QT thread I will lead my crusade on that front. The hard left has always been given a ready platform on the show. Will Self, Mehdi Hassan, George Galloway - how many times has a right wing equivalent of those lot been on? Once, and was hounded off.

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 09:22 AM
Why do you always feel the need to dehumanise/slander those you don't agree with?

Those people who drown out legitimate views with animal noises deserve slander. It's always the left you get this from as well.

Toby
22-10-2015, 09:23 AM
They don't perceive the current government as right wing, they'd consider them (at least outwardly) as centrist.

Toby
22-10-2015, 09:25 AM
Do they?



When they perceive the current government as right wing of course it matters. Anyway, since this is the QT thread I will lead my crusade on that front. The hard left has always been given a ready platform on the show. Will Self, Mehdi Hassan, George Galloway - how many times has a right wing equivalent of those lot been on? Once, and was hounded off.

Melanie Phillips has been on far more than any of those three since the the Tories entered government.

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 09:56 AM
As if Melanie Phillips is the hard right :D

She was a Guardian writer/editor for 20 years. You've obviously not realised you've been conditioned to think that centre-right = far-right. This is not the case.

Lewis
22-10-2015, 10:19 AM
If Mehdi Hassan is the 'hard left' (which he isn't), then Melanie Philips surely counts as hard right. We could do with a sliding scale really, since it seems to be drawing equivalence between Will Self and Nick Griffin.

Toby
22-10-2015, 10:22 AM
As if Melanie Phillips is the hard right :D

She was a Guardian writer/editor for 20 years. You've obviously not realised you've been conditioned to think that centre-right = far-right. This is not the case.

She's not, but she's comparable to Will Self (or Mehdi Hassan).

Jimmy Floyd
22-10-2015, 10:26 AM
Will Self isn't even that left wing is he? He's more twat wing.

Melanie Phillips is an (actual) neo con.

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 10:32 AM
She's not, but she's comparable to Will Self (or Mehdi Hassan).

That's because you don't understand the far-left when you see it.

To Jimmy - NeoCon does not = far right.

Toby
22-10-2015, 10:35 AM
Yes, it certainly looks like me not understanding things here.

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 10:46 AM
If you've got something to say, say it. Those kind of glib comments add nothing.

I notice you didn't even try to defend Galloway of the charge. A regular on QT, of course. I could have included Owen Jones, too.

Toby
22-10-2015, 10:49 AM
I won't 'defend' Galloway of anything because he's a fucking idiot.

I've said what I have to say, but your grasp on reality is too thin for there to be much value in saying any more. As Lewis points at, that you suggest Will Self is more comparable to Nick Griffin than to Melanie Phillips shows how seriously the subject should be taken with you.

Owen Jones has been on it four times - ever - which is considerably less than the likes of Douglas Murray or Peter Hitchens.

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 10:57 AM
I won't 'defend' Galloway of anything because he's a fucking idiot.

I've said what I have to say, but your grasp on reality is too thin for there to be much value in saying any more. As Lewis points at, that you suggest Will Self is more comparable to Nick Griffin than to Melanie Phillips shows how seriously the subject should be taken with you.

Owen Jones has been on it four times - ever - which is considerably less than the likes of Douglas Murray or Peter Hitchens.

A far left idiot, yes? Who is continually chosen to appear on QT with no equivalent from the right. That's my point.

Neither Murray or Hitchens are far right. You need to learn what it is to be far right.

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 11:00 AM
If Mehdi Hassan is the 'hard left' (which he isn't), then Melanie Philips surely counts as hard right. We could do with a sliding scale really, since it seems to be drawing equivalence between Will Self and Nick Griffin.

The Griffin equivalent is Galloway. The other 2 are far left journalists/self publicists. There is no right wing equivalent. Phillips continually denounces the far right - something I don't recall Self or Hassan doing with regards to the far left.

Anyway, Daily Politics has Farage on, so pipe down. Time to bathe in excellence.

Toby
22-10-2015, 11:09 AM
Neither Murray or Hitchens are far right. You need to learn what it is to be far right.

I never claimed they were. You need to learn to read the arguments put in front of you, not the ones you want to have.

Lewis
22-10-2015, 11:11 AM
The far-left equivalent of Nick Griffin would be somebody like Robert Griffiths or the nearest pleb from the Workers Revolutionary Party. George Galloway is more equivalent to Nigel Farage.

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 12:01 PM
I never claimed they were. You need to learn to read the arguments put in front of you, not the ones you want to have.

Okay, ignore that, and explain why it is that the definitely far-left Galloway has been on so often and no right-wing equivalent has?

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 12:03 PM
The far-left equivalent of Nick Griffin would be somebody like Robert Griffiths or the nearest pleb from the Workers Revolutionary Party. George Galloway is more equivalent to Nigel Farage.

No, you're incorrect. Galloway has made it very clear he will not debate with any Israeli and walked out of a debate a couple of years ago, remarking ''I don't debate with Israelis". That's clear bigotry.

phonics
22-10-2015, 12:07 PM
How does being an anti-Semite make him a 'member of the far-left?'

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 12:11 PM
He was being anti-Israeli by his statement, not anti-semite. The far-left are always pro-Palestine, of course.

Lewis
22-10-2015, 12:38 PM
If 'far right' is exclusively fascist, then 'far left' should be actual communists. George Galloway isn't a communist, for all of his other quirks, and he himself has said that his approach to politics is quite similar to Farage's, even making a point of saying UKIP voters aren't all racists (which is obvious, but still the belief of some twats). That's probably why they apparently get on so well.

Toby
22-10-2015, 12:39 PM
Okay, ignore that, and explain why it is that the definitely far-left Galloway has been on so often and no right-wing equivalent has?

I don't agree that he's "definitely far-left".

If we pretend he is, then Galloway was still an MP until the latest election, and I can't think of any "far right" equivalents you could say that of. I'd agree with you that Galloway is on too much but I don't agree that it reflects a left wing bias.

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 01:11 PM
If 'far right' is exclusively fascist

It isn't. It's authoritarianism, among other things. If the far left is just communists then the coming swathe of Labour twats appearing on QT would easily outnumber any far-right equivalent, anyway. So my case would be even more solid.


George Galloway isn't a communist, for all of his other quirks, and he himself has said that his approach to politics is quite similar to Farage's, even making a point of saying UKIP voters aren't all racists (which is obvious, but still the belief of some twats). That's probably why they apparently get on so well.

They get on well primarily because they both want Britain to remain Britain and to leave the EU.

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 01:13 PM
I don't agree that he's "definitely far-left".

If we pretend he is, then Galloway was still an MP until the latest election, and I can't think of any "far right" equivalents you could say that of. I'd agree with you that Galloway is on too much but I don't agree that it reflects a left wing bias.

The left-wing bias is clear in the audience. It's plainly audible nearly every time an immigration debate is on. I suppose some of it could be the fact that the left tend to get overly-emotive and can't control their outbusts, but you'd think the majority view in the country would draw the odd round of applause of similar magnitude to the 'I love immigrants, me. Doctors! Nurses!' type of comment.

Toby
22-10-2015, 01:16 PM
He's given up on the panels argument, folks, we're on to audiences now.

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 01:26 PM
I haven't given up on it at all. I have been banging on about the audience for ages - I've already given a clear argument for the panelists which hasn't been refuted.

Lewis
22-10-2015, 01:28 PM
It isn't. It's authoritarianism, among other things. If the far left is just communists then the coming swathe of Labour twats appearing on QT would easily outnumber any far-right equivalent, anyway. So my case would be even more solid.

They aren't communists either, and if authoritarianism is the main qualifier then the current government is going to take some beating.


They get on well primarily because they both want Britain to remain Britain and to leave the EU.

Galloway doesn't. He's one of those 'reform and stay' wallies.

Toby
22-10-2015, 01:30 PM
It's been refuted by three or four people now, that you don't agree with the refutation doesn't mean it hasn't existed.

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 01:31 PM
It hasn't. You're trying hard because obviously you could never agree but until you bring up some far right equivalents of the far left then you are very much on the losing side of the argument.

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 01:35 PM
They aren't communists either, and if authoritarianism is the main qualifier then the current government is going to take some beating.

You'll believe anything. The current government is only authoritarian compared to what has gone before in recent times. Broadly speaking, they are not authoritarian at all compared to what that word means in other countries.




Galloway doesn't. He's one of those 'reform and stay' wallies.

He was but he's coming around - https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/620229697562103808

Even before he stated it would need massive reform - and that ain't happening.

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 01:37 PM
While I'm dominating, I came across this quite excellent observation from perpetual hero, Douglas Murray:


The things people say in anger are generally the most revealing things of all. So it was on last night’s Question Time when a clearly very angry Simon Schama confronted Rod Liddle of this parish on the question of migrants.
I’m sure Rod himself will have something to say about this, but I thought it very striking that in a debate over whether the UK should take in millions more economic migrants and asylum seekers, Simon Schama chose to level two insults in particular at Rod.


The first was that Rod is a ‘hack’ who writes for the newspapers. Of course Simon Schama clearly regards his own voluminous contributions to the press on both sides of the Atlantic as being on a far higher plane. Indeed you can find a selection of these immortal pieces preserved in the volume ‘Scribble, Scribble, Scribble: writings on ice cream, Obama, Churchill and my mother.’ Even Simon Schama’s writings on ice cream are clearly works which fly higher in his own estimation than anything by Rod on the biggest issue of our time.
But the other word was even more revealing. In berating comrade Liddle, Professor Scribble denounced him for turning ‘your suburban face away from the plight of the miserable.’ I suppose we will all just have to speculate over what kind of face Simon Schama regards himself as having (metrosexual, aristocratic, epicene?). But that word is one hell of a give-away. Indeed I don’t think any liberal celebrity has slipped quite so conspicuously since Stephen Fry denounced public concern during the MPs expenses scandal as being ‘tedious, bourgeois’.
In that use of ‘suburban’ Schama showed something a lot of us had suspected – which is that for a certain type of globe-trotting international celebrity, any concern for borders, national identity and cultural continuity are not just beneath them, but actively ‘common’. Of course, like so many other advocates of mass immigration, Simon Schama can probably live pretty much where he wants. And if the area around him goes somewhat downhill because the neighbours all start to come from the rougher corners of Eritrea then Simon Schama can move. And he will probably move to a very nice area. But of course not everybody has that choice. And one thing we can all be certain of is that Simon Schama will probably never choose to live in Bradford, Malmo or any of the (dare I say it) ‘suburbs’ outside Paris. Yet all the time he will urge other peoples’ neighbourhoods to more closely resemble those great success stories, and look down at people from an ever-loftier height when they dare to object.

And on Twitter later


Thanks to all who noted Simon Schama advocates mass immigration for the UK while living in a distinctly monocultural suburb of New York.

http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/simon-schamas-use-of-the-word-suburban-on-question-time-was-very-revealing/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Lewis
22-10-2015, 02:33 PM
You'll believe anything. The current government is only authoritarian compared to what has gone before in recent times. Broadly speaking, they are not authoritarian at all compared to what that word means in other countries.

I believe I've never seen or heard them advocating communism, if that's what you mean (if you have them link me to it). And yeah that's the point. You're using a fixed definition of 'far right', but not doing so with the 'far left'. Will Self and Mehdi Hassan aren't very left-wing compared to what that word means in other countries.


He was but he's coming around - https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/620229697562103808

Even before he stated it would need massive reform - and that ain't happening.

But he hasn't said he wants 'Britain to remain Britain and to leave the EU'.

Boydy
22-10-2015, 02:34 PM
I want Britain to be about British.

Toby
22-10-2015, 02:57 PM
It hasn't. You're trying hard because obviously you could never agree but until you bring up some far right equivalents of the far left then you are very much on the losing side of the argument.

It very clearly has, we've just hit the point where your reading comprehension goes out the window because you're not sure how to form a proper argument and decide to start acting like a wally instead.

Nobody has accepted the premise that the "far left" are getting regular time on Question Time, so there's no need to name equivalents. There have been various names put forward for right-wing representatives comparable to the left-wing ones you named, who multiple people in the thread have agreed are relevant, but you don't want to accept them as valid comparisons because it doesn't fit with your victim complex.

Kikó
22-10-2015, 03:24 PM
I want Britain to be about British.

I'm going on a march.

phonics
22-10-2015, 03:33 PM
I'm going on a march.

You've got a few months of prep ahead.

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 03:58 PM
I believe I've never seen or heard them advocating communism, if that's what you mean (if you have them link me to it).

Well, you're never the best on reading between the lines. Corbyn has refused to deny he's a Marxist and lists Marx as his hero. Many in the Labour party and those journalists like Owen Jones who are full Labour fanboys come from families who were in the Communist Party of Great Britain. It doesn't take much working out.


And yeah that's the point. You're using a fixed definition of 'far right', but not doing so with the 'far left'. Will Self and Mehdi Hassan aren't very left-wing compared to what that word means in other countries.

It's hard to pin down a definition which everyone will be happy with, but I think nobody would have hesitation in calling Griffin far-right, would they? In the same respect, I would have no hesitation in calling the people hard left which I have done.




But he hasn't said he wants 'Britain to remain Britain and to leave the EU'.

It's that lack of reading between the lines again, I fear. We are 100% not going to get massive reforms, so what do you think that will mean?

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 04:08 PM
It very clearly has, we've just hit the point where your reading comprehension goes out the window because you're not sure how to form a proper argument and decide to start acting like a wally instead.

Nobody has accepted the premise that the "far left" are getting regular time on Question Time, so there's no need to name equivalents. There have been various names put forward for right-wing representatives comparable to the left-wing ones you named, who multiple people in the thread have agreed are relevant, but you don't want to accept them as valid comparisons because it doesn't fit with your victim complex.

I'm not going to repeat myself again, but I will let QE Douglas Murray reiterate my points in av even more eloquent fashion:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS40b_QTJCU

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 04:09 PM
But he hasn't said he wants 'Britain to remain Britain and to leave the EU'.

Again, a massive failure on your part. I was, of course, referring to his support for the 'In' campaign regarding Scottish independence.

It just goes to show, doesn't it, that you don't have to say something word for word for it to be the case.

Toby
22-10-2015, 04:10 PM
I hear plenty of Douglas Murray on Question Time, thank you very much.

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 04:12 PM
That's okay, you would never admit you're wrong anyway. I don't think he's ever spoken about BBC Bias on QT, either.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLhlXOSk5qg

Lewis
22-10-2015, 04:37 PM
Well, you're never the best on reading between the lines. Corbyn has refused to deny he's a Marxist and lists Marx as his hero. Many in the Labour party and those journalists like Owen Jones who are full Labour fanboys come from families who were in the Communist Party of Great Britain. It doesn't take much working out.

Oh. Right. I suppose them having never done anything to advance the cause of communism is irrelevant when their parents were communists, or if they admire Karl Marx (hard to disagree with what Corbyn said, even if you disagree with Marx's conclusions). It's not so much a failure of 'reading between the lines' as not being a conspiratorial, misinformed loon. Who else falls foul of this sippenhaft logic?


It's hard to pin down a definition which everyone will be happy with, but I think nobody would have hesitation in calling Griffin far-right, would they? In the same respect, I would have no hesitation in calling the people hard left which I have done.

That's because Nick Griffin is 'far-right' according to the sort of widely-used definitions that would only call proper communist plebs 'far-left'. Recognising half of that doesn't mean that you can then just make things up. You're being like those idiots who use 'fascist' to describe anything remotely right-wing.


It's that lack of reading between the lines again, I fear. We are 100% not going to get massive reforms, so what do you think that will mean?

He says nothing will be gained by leaving, which suggests (like all 'reformers') that even if no changes are forthcoming he will elect to stay in.

I'm not sure why you've quoted this line in isolation in another post as well. In this post you're saying it refers to Europe, and in that one you aren't. Not that it matters. George Galloway does not share Nigel Farage's wish to leave the European Union regardless, which is what you originally claimed (unless you woz writing it wrong).

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 04:40 PM
Ah yes, I note the usual trick of simply not quoting the answers which show you up, hoping you can sidetrack me with other bullshit in the hope it will be forgotten.

Galloway said that in 2013, it seems he is being swayed.

Corbyn and many of his cronies are described as 'far-left' according to virtually all the media, in case you hasn't been awake the last few weeks.

Toby
22-10-2015, 05:03 PM
Corbyn and many of his cronies are described as 'far-left' according to virtually all the media, in case you hasn't been awake the last few weeks.

You've obviously not realised that you've been conditioned to think that centre-left equals far-left. This is not the case.

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 06:50 PM
More disingenuous nonsense.

Lewis
22-10-2015, 08:04 PM
Ah yes, I note the usual trick of simply not quoting the answers which show you up, hoping you can sidetrack me with other bullshit in the hope it will be forgotten.

:harold:


Galloway said that in 2013, it seems he is being swayed.

Has he said he definitely wants out? If not then he doesn't have that in common with Nigel Farage.


Corbyn and many of his cronies are described as 'far-left' according to virtually all the media, in case you hasn't been awake the last few weeks.

I haven't seen many examples. The BBC got a bit of stick for constantly referring to him as left-wing, but I suspect that was some dastardly communist plot.

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 08:18 PM
Again, a massive failure on your part. I was, of course, referring to his support for the 'In' campaign regarding Scottish independence.

It just goes to show, doesn't it, that you don't have to say something word for word for it to be the case.

:happycry:

I don't know if he's said he definitely wants out. He's clearly sceptical, which is something he certainly has in common. I'm sure you more than agree.

As for the BBC - I've never said it was any kind of conspiracy. As Murray says - it's just people with leftist world views meeting other people with similar world views. It's a university thing, I think.

Lewis
22-10-2015, 08:33 PM
You said 'They get on well primarily because they both want Britain to remain Britain and to leave the EU'. You were either wrong or you don't know how to write properly. I would have thought just accepting that you got some George Galloway-related information wrong was the least embarrassing way out, but clearly not.

Boydy
22-10-2015, 08:37 PM
I thought Galloway wanted Britain to become part of the caliphate rather than 'remain Britain'.

Lewis
22-10-2015, 08:42 PM
The Gallophate.

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 08:48 PM
You said 'They get on well primarily because they both want Britain to remain Britain and to leave the EU'. You were either wrong or you don't know how to write properly. I would have thought just accepting that you got some George Galloway-related information wrong was the least embarrassing way out, but clearly not.

Britain to remain Britain, as in Scotland not becoming independent. Not that hard to grasp. His EU scepticism leads me to believe he will want us out the way things are. Deal with it.

Lewis
22-10-2015, 09:44 PM
'They get on well primarily because they both want Britain to remain Britain and to leave the EU'. He hasn't said that.

QE Harold Flair
22-10-2015, 10:37 PM
Must we really go over everything several times. I've already addressed this twice.

Now on to tonight's show - have Farage on then don't take any questions on the EU or immigration? BBC communists are scared.

Lewis
22-10-2015, 10:52 PM
You've addressed it by claiming it says something that it doesn't.

QE Harold Flair
23-10-2015, 12:19 PM
He didn't directly say it, we can all agree with that. Want to bore everyone more on this? He also didn't directly say he wanted to stay in the EU.

Toby
23-10-2015, 12:23 PM
Want to bore everyone more on this?

:harold:

"You speak for yourself, not a collective".

Davgooner
23-10-2015, 12:23 PM
I want Britain to be about British.

I want Britain to be back British
I want Britain to be back British

:dance:

Lewis
23-10-2015, 02:41 PM
:harold:

"You speak for yourself, not a collective".

Come on in, the :evictory: is fine.

QE Harold Flair
23-10-2015, 03:17 PM
My assertion was based on the evidence of everyone always complaining about such argument. Usually about me because most are sheep, of course.

I'll take my readily earned e-victory for this, though. Every time you don't quote sdomething it's because you've been done and you know it. So, without further to do:

:happycry::evictory::evictory::evictory:


Again, a massive failure on your part. I was, of course, referring to his support for the 'In' campaign regarding Scottish independence.

It just goes to show, doesn't it, that you don't have to say something word for word for it to be the case.

Lewis
23-10-2015, 04:00 PM
So then you can't write properly. Whatever. I'm happy with either outcome.

QE Harold Flair
23-10-2015, 04:02 PM
I think it's more a case of you being very autistic. That would also explain your amazing recall of people's lives on here - more so than being a right sad fuck.

Lewis
23-10-2015, 04:10 PM
Harold and Dale Winton are similar because they both support Arsenal and have sex with men.

Nothing wrong with that statement then (unless you're autistic).

QE Harold Flair
23-10-2015, 04:12 PM
Idiot it is, then.

Lewis
23-10-2015, 04:28 PM
Hasn't denied it! :gay:

QE Harold Flair
23-10-2015, 04:33 PM
Of course not, I'm a proud Arsenal fan.

Lewis
23-10-2015, 04:46 PM
Out and proud. Respect.

QE Harold Flair
23-10-2015, 04:50 PM
Now you can admit your CoE allegiance, which you've been keeping quiet about.

Lewis
23-10-2015, 05:08 PM
The old board contains numerous examples of me saying that I christened when I was about none and that I'm an atheist. You obviously weren't paying attention.

In the meantime, you still haven't denied that you have sex with men.

QE Harold Flair
23-10-2015, 05:19 PM
I also haven't denied that I'm a Martian.

I didn't realise you would be someone who saw that as a derogatory thing.

Lewis
23-10-2015, 05:40 PM
Nobody has suggested you're a Martian.

QE Harold Flair
23-10-2015, 05:47 PM
But if they did I wouldn't deny it.

Lewis
23-10-2015, 06:16 PM
Call it an informed guess, but you aren't a Martian. You could well have sex with men though.

QE Harold Flair
23-10-2015, 06:17 PM
Informed by what? Are you a homophobe?

Lewis
23-10-2015, 06:25 PM
Informed by there being no evidence of life on Mars, and the probability that if there was some it wouldn't be on a forum having to entertain the idea that they're bent to avoid having to admit they got some trivia about George Galloway wrong.

QE Harold Flair
23-10-2015, 06:26 PM
Hasn't denied denied it!

Lewis
23-10-2015, 06:39 PM
I'm not a homophobe. Look how easy it is.

QE Harold Flair
23-10-2015, 06:42 PM
And I don't have sex with men. Such was the ludicrous nature of the question I didn't feel it needed an answer. Very childish.

I'd still like to know why you asked it? Are you sure there was no homophobic element?

Lewis
23-10-2015, 07:44 PM
If 'Harold and Dale Winton are similar because they both support Arsenal and have sex with men' suggests you have sex with men, rather than just support Arsenal, then 'They get on well primarily because they both want Britain to remain Britain and to leave the EU' suggests George Galloway wants to leave the European Union. He doesn't. I'm right. You can't English proper.

But at least you don't have sex with me. We've cleared that up at least.

Magic
23-10-2015, 07:52 PM
Harold is gay? Nice.

Yevrah
23-10-2015, 08:38 PM
Back to actual Question Time I thought Michelle Dewberry was alright and not nearly as bad as expected.

I've got a lot of time for Germaine Greer too.

Magic
23-10-2015, 08:40 PM
She's a transmisogynyst cunt.

Lewis
23-10-2015, 10:08 PM
Putting 'me' rather than 'men' has got to be the worst typo ever.

QE Harold Flair
23-10-2015, 10:42 PM
If 'Harold and Dale Winton are similar because they both support Arsenal and have sex with men' suggests you have sex with men, rather than just support Arsenal, then 'They get on well primarily because they both want Britain to remain Britain and to leave the EU' suggests George Galloway wants to leave the European Union. He doesn't. I'm right. You can't English proper.

But at least you don't have sex with me. We've cleared that up at least.

Lewis is a child rapist like Ian Huntley also sounds paedophilic. You stand accused you fucking nonce. :happycry:

And I've already showed Galloway's changing stance, and he has said the EU will only work with massive reforms. We won't get massive reforms and everyone knows this. So we will see, won't we?

QE Harold Flair
23-10-2015, 10:44 PM
Back to actual Question Time I thought Michelle Dewberry was alright and not nearly as bad as expected.

I've got a lot of time for Germaine Greer too.

She's usually alright but she was awful last night. She just whinged and whinged about Britain's long distant past as a reason we shouldn't say anything about China. She then said she's Australian but kept referring to Britain as 'we'. Her answers were all extremely long-winded, too.

She was good on Newsnight tonight, though (regarding 'transgender hate')


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B8Q6D4a6TM

Lewis
23-10-2015, 11:09 PM
Lewis is a child rapist like Ian Huntley also sounds paedophilic. You stand accused you fucking nonce. :happycry:

I refute your poorly-worded, point-missing allegations. Simple.


And I've already showed Galloway's changing stance, and he has said the EU will only work with massive reforms. We won't get massive reforms and everyone knows this. So we will see, won't we?

You never said he had a 'changing stance'. You said he wants to leave right now. He doesn't. He might well come to advocate leaving, as you might get a sex change in the next two years; but on 22 July 2015 you were wrong.

QE Harold Flair
23-10-2015, 11:17 PM
I refute your poorly-worded, point-missing allegations. Simple.

But last time you didn't, regarding homophobia. I had to bring it up again. Therefor I declare you homophobic.



You never said he had a 'changing stance'. You said he wants to leave right now. He doesn't. He might well come to advocate leaving, as you might get a sex change in the next two years; but on 22 July 2015 you were wrong.

Well it's your autism again, isn't it? You are completely incapable of reading between the lines. You always demand exact quotes. If he's so pro-EU then go and find me a quote where he says he will stay in no matter what.

phonics
23-10-2015, 11:20 PM
Am I an autist or does Harolds sentence say that Ian Huntley sounds like a paedophile? What do paedophiles sound like?

edit: It's from an earlier post of this incredibly boring discussion. Move along.

QE Harold Flair
23-10-2015, 11:21 PM
Am I an autist or does Harolds sentence say that Ian Huntley sounds like a paedophile? What do paedophiles sound like?

You're an autist.

Lewis
23-10-2015, 11:31 PM
But last time you didn't, regarding homophobia. I had to bring it up again. Therefor I declare you homophobic.

If your declarations are countered by my denial then the onus is on you to prove it. Have fun with that.


Well it's your autism again, isn't it? You are completely incapable of reading between the lines. You always demand exact quotes. If he's so pro-EU then go and find me a quote where he says he will stay in no matter what.

There weren't any lines to read through. Had you just said he was a Eurosceptic then there is sufficient ambiguity in the term to allow for it; but you said definitely that he wanted to leave. That is simply wrong.

QE Harold Flair
23-10-2015, 11:36 PM
There weren't any lines to read through. Had you just said he was a Eurosceptic then there is sufficient ambiguity in the term to allow for it; but you said definitely that he wanted to leave. That is simply wrong.

Yes, there were. He has been much more critical of the EU the last year or two. His stance is changing, to the point where I think he will want to leave without massive reforms, which won't happen. You can disagree if you want, I don't care. We will see in due course, and I will expect a full apology.

Lewis
23-10-2015, 11:53 PM
Great. But as of now that isn't the case. If I say that the Sun will absorb the Earth by Christmas, and it doesn't, I don't get to wait billions of years for an apology. I would simply have got it wrong like a great big twat.

QE Harold Flair
24-10-2015, 12:01 AM
There's no evidence to suggest that's the case. There is evidence he will vote to leave the EU. I am something of a prediction machine, don't forget.

Lewis
24-10-2015, 12:13 AM
Nobody cares what he will do two years from now. On 22 July 2015 there was nothing to suggest that as of 22 July 2015 he wanted to leave the European Union regardless of what reforms might and might not materialise (as Nigel Farage does, and as we both do). You said that was the case. You were wrong.

QE Harold Flair
24-10-2015, 12:19 AM
There is something to suggest it, which is why I brought it up. 'Suggest' being the key word. Have a think about that - it's a word you used, remember. That already denotes that he doesn't definitively have to say it. I win again.

Disco
24-10-2015, 12:25 AM
Are you like this all the time Harold?

No, you didn't categorically state you would eat the last sausage and seeing as I quite excellently predicted last Tuesday that I would eat them all I fear that's another victory for me.

QE Harold Flair
24-10-2015, 12:31 AM
If you're going to bring up pettiness you're aiming it at the wrong person. I have to deal with this level of pedantry all the fucking time.

Toby
24-10-2015, 12:35 AM
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/small-violin.gif

Lewis
24-10-2015, 12:37 AM
You didn't use 'suggest' in the original claim (that George Galloway wants 'Britain to remain Britain and to leave the EU'). It's not 'pettiness' or 'pedantry' to expect people to use words and concepts correctly. Especially when they're doing so in order to make a definitive point. If you don't do that then you have used the words and concepts incorrectly. That makes you wrong.

QE Harold Flair
24-10-2015, 12:58 AM
You used it. I can't really answer your posts on things you don't say now, can I? You said there was nothing to suggest he will leave, I'm saying there is.

Lewis
24-10-2015, 10:08 AM
I hadn't even mentioned Galloway and the European Union before you claimed that he definitely wants to leave. I said (about four replies down the line) that, like most reform people, his words 'suggest' that he will end up voting to stay, but I could well end up being wrong in two years. Fortunately I haven't tied myself to making a factual error there, otherwise I would have been wrong like you were.

QE Harold Flair
24-10-2015, 10:15 AM
I hadn't even mentioned Galloway and the European Union before you claimed that he definitely wants to leave. I said (about four replies down the line) that, like most reform people, his words 'suggest' that he will end up voting to stay, but I could well end up being wrong in two years. Fortunately I haven't tied myself to making a factual error there, otherwise I would have been wrong like you were.

I never said 'definitely'. That's an outright lie. The wheels are coming off now, aren't they?

Let's revisit:




They get on well primarily because they both want Britain to remain as Britain and to leave the EU.

I will take your apology via pm to save you the embarrassment.

Lewis
24-10-2015, 11:19 AM
I'm not saying that you used the word 'definitely'. I'm saying that by claiming George Galloway wants 'to leave the EU', without attaching any qualifiers regarding his attitude towards reform and its likely outcomes, you made a definitive statement on his position which happened to be wrong.

You did actually accept that it was wrong by adding those qualifiers straight away; yet here you are trying to re-define how words and language works (representing a statement of fact as speculation) rather than just admit to having made the trivial mistake in the first place. How do you even get to that stage?

QE Harold Flair
24-10-2015, 12:29 PM
Oh so things don't have to be said directly now? Make your mkind up, Mr Autism.

You claimed I said he definitely wanted to leave. I never said any such thing. I said he wanted to leave because I believe that's what his comments suggest to me. Another word you used yourself, and one clearly open to interpretation.

simon
24-10-2015, 12:34 PM
Are you like this all the time Harold?

No, you didn't categorically state you would eat the last sausage and seeing as I quite excellently predicted last Tuesday that I would eat them all I fear that's another victory for me.

:D

simon
24-10-2015, 12:36 PM
I think Lewis is about to break Harold.

Toby
24-10-2015, 12:47 PM
His comments suggest that to me too.

Jimmy Floyd
24-10-2015, 12:55 PM
It has been a little bit like the Allies pushing through Germany in early 1945.

QE Harold Flair
24-10-2015, 04:22 PM
Does being a sheep never tire you people? Especially when it's following someone as clearly retarded as 'Simon', whose obsession over me is bordering on the demented.

Lewis
24-10-2015, 04:26 PM
Oh so things don't have to be said directly now? Make your mkind up, Mr Autism.

You claimed I said he definitely wanted to leave. I never said any such thing. I said he wanted to leave because I believe that's what his comments suggest to me. Another word you used yourself, and one clearly open to interpretation.

You did say it directly. You said he 'want[s] Britain to remain Britain and to leave the EU', and only qualified that when I pointed out that it was not true. Jesus. I'll walk you through it for future reference, or if you ever decide to emigrate somewhere with basic English language requirements.

Which of the options listed below best captures the meaning of the following: Harold wants to have sex with men

1) That Harold (as of 24/10/15) quite fancies a bit of gay sex.
2) That over the next two years, depending on what women can offer him and the nature of the gay community in 2017, Harold might well start touting for arse.

Luca
24-10-2015, 04:31 PM
Harold is on the ropes.

Magic
24-10-2015, 04:34 PM
Meltdown imminent.

QE Harold Flair
24-10-2015, 04:35 PM
You did say it directly. You said he 'want[s] Britain to remain Britain and to leave the EU', and only qualified that when I pointed out that it was not true. Jesus. I'll walk you through it for future reference, or if you ever decide to emigrate somewhere with basic English language requirements.

Which of the options listed below best captures the meaning of the following: Harold wants to have sex with men

1) That Harold (as of 24/10/15) quite fancies a bit of gay sex.
2) That over the next two years, depending on what women can offer him and the nature of the gay community in 2017, Harold might well start touting for arse.

Yes, that's a deduction I made and later clarified, based on what his comments suggest to me. I didn't say he definitely wants to leave the EU. So you are, by point of the kind of pedantic shit you like to spout, wrong.

Lewis
24-10-2015, 04:43 PM
It's a definitive statement you made and later clarified. But when you say 'later clarified', you mean you were wrong, don't you?

simon
24-10-2015, 04:44 PM
Does being a sheep never tire you people? Especially when it's following someone as clearly retarded as 'Simon', whose obsession over me is bordering on the demented.

You sound like a Liverpool fan.

QE Harold Flair
24-10-2015, 05:33 PM
It's a definitive statement you made and later clarified. But when you say 'later clarified', you mean you were wrong, don't you?

Nothing is 'definitive'. If you take that line then 'in my opinion' would have to follow every statement you think is the case. That's not how normal people talk.

John Arne
24-10-2015, 05:43 PM
Nothing is definitive?

Lewis
24-10-2015, 05:44 PM
Definitive statements are definitive (that was one). You made a definitive statement (that was another one). You were wrong (and another).

Luca
24-10-2015, 05:44 PM
Nothing is 'definitive'.

If that was the case, then this statement itself isn't definitive.

Toby
24-10-2015, 05:45 PM
Nothing is definitive?

https://intrinsicspace.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/paradox.jpg

Magic
24-10-2015, 05:45 PM
If that was the case, then this statement itself isn't definitive.

This statement definitely is definitive. Good work, Luke.

Pepe
24-10-2015, 05:55 PM
Define definitive definitively.

QE Harold Flair
24-10-2015, 06:23 PM
Definitive statements are definitive (that was one). You made a definitive statement (that was another one). You were wrong (and another).

No, (I) wasn't (wrong).

It was my opinion of his stance. It's a bit like when you claim someone is shit - a definitive statement if left at that. But normal people (non pedantic cocksmokers) would know it's simply your opinion.

Spoonsky
24-10-2015, 06:40 PM
lol, someone change Harold's user tagline thing to "Nothing is definitive".

QE Harold Flair
24-10-2015, 06:44 PM
lol!

Boydy
24-10-2015, 07:08 PM
I'm betting this is all some postmodern lesson on the nature of language by Harold.

Lewis
24-10-2015, 08:11 PM
No, (I) wasn't (wrong).

It was my opinion of his stance. It's a bit like when you claim someone is shit - a definitive statement if left at that. But normal people (non pedantic cocksmokers) would know it's simply your opinion.

It would only be a definitive statement if you meant that they were actually shit. That they were poo. From a bum. You obviously cannot mean that, because poo isn't people, so when you use 'shit' in that context it is clear that you are voicing an opinion by comparing the quality of that person to something not very good or useful.

When you say 'Harold wants to have sex with men' you are making a definitive statement that is either right or wrong. Opinion is irrelevant.

Baz
24-10-2015, 08:40 PM
What a boring page of thread.

QE Harold Flair
29-10-2015, 06:41 PM
@Annabel Goldie @kdugdalemsp @KeithBrownMSP @MerrynSW @billybragg

From Edinburgh :sick:

Toby
29-10-2015, 07:18 PM
For those not expert in Twitter handles, that's:

Annabel Goldie, MSP and former leader of the Scottish Conservatives
Kezia Dugdale, MSP and current leader of Scottish Labour
Keith Brown, SNP MSP
Billy Bragg
Merryn Somerset Webb, Editor of 'Money Week' apparently

Jimmy Floyd
29-10-2015, 07:19 PM
Billy Bragg the richest by far of the five, just bear that in mind when he gives his answers.

Yevrah
29-10-2015, 07:22 PM
I'm tired so don't think I'll be bothering with that shitfest line up.

Boydy
29-10-2015, 07:32 PM
Billy Bragg the richest by far of the five, just bear that in mind when he gives his answers.

But if he wasn't, it'd just be the politics of envy, right?

Jimmy Floyd
29-10-2015, 10:47 PM
Why does everyone moan about politicians, and then advocate the creation of an elected upper chamber, thus doubling the number of politicians overnight?

Yevrah
29-10-2015, 10:58 PM
This is quite good for a regional edition so far.

Toby
29-10-2015, 11:02 PM
That silence was pretty brutal for poor Kez. She actually spoke quite well there but people just don't care any more.

Jimmy Floyd
29-10-2015, 11:05 PM
She's not quite Keir Hardy, is she.

QE Harold Flair
29-10-2015, 11:23 PM
The only one worth listening to is the economy woman.

Yevrah
29-10-2015, 11:26 PM
Yep, she's smashing it.

Yevrah
29-10-2015, 11:29 PM
Am I seeing things or did a 12 year old just say 'like the conversation we had in the 80s about Thatcher'?

Toby
29-10-2015, 11:29 PM
This steel/banks bit has been dull as hell. Like fuck is it worth bailing out steel manufacturers now.

QE Harold Flair
29-10-2015, 11:31 PM
So because steel workers know nothing else we have to save them no matter what? Proper lol lefty bullshit as usual.

Yevrah
29-10-2015, 11:35 PM
Is the Chilcot enquiry the biggest example of sandbagging a job in all of human history?

Toby
05-11-2015, 11:15 AM
David Dimbleby presents topical debate from Tottenham, London. Panellists include Conservative international development secretary Justine Greening, Labour's Chuka Umunna, the Green Party's Jenny Jones, Mail on Sunday columnist Peter Hitchens and writer and broadcaster Victoria Coren Mitchell.

There's that bias again, making Peter Hitchens have to sit next to a Green.

Jimmy Floyd
05-11-2015, 11:41 AM
Jenny Jones is a truly terrible person. Fun dynamic as she will love Corbyn while No Bottle Chucky will not.

Boydy
05-11-2015, 11:54 AM
That sounds like a reasonable opinion.

Lewis
05-11-2015, 12:16 PM
Victoria Coren Mitchell is unbearable, so I'll pass.

Jimmy Floyd
05-11-2015, 11:06 PM
Why do we need to hear Victoria Coren Mitchell's thoughts on international politics?