The EU Politics Thread (Sponsored by Bruhnaldo's incompetence)

[niko_cee]

Merkelmania where her party gets its worst share of the vote since the 40s? Onward christian soldiers . . .

[Pepe]

Germany. :sick:

[Lewis]

The NAZIS coming second in East Germany is so great.

[GS]

Fuck that. Martin Schulz sauntering back into national politics only to be HUMILIATED is the far more entertaining outcome.

Merkel only getting a third of the vote is a laugh, too. It's almost as if she's not as popular as the likes of Continuity Remain would have everyone believe.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He hasn't been humiliated though, has he?

From what I remember about kraut politics, the left-greens all line up together so that's 256, the fuzzy yellow lot can swing either way and then no one will deal with Eva Braun, so they're fucked.

Or are the yellow lot solid Merkel-ites?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Oh I see, she'll have to spend six months getting the greens onside.

[GS]

He hasn't been humiliated though, has he?

From what I remember about kraut politics, the left-greens all line up together so that's 256, the fuzzy yellow lot can swing either way and then no one will deal with Eva Braun, so they're fucked.

Or are the yellow lot solid Merkel-ites?

He has.

http://www.politico.eu/article/german-spd-heads-into-opposition-after-election-pounding/


Germany’s Social Democrats said Sunday they will not continue governing in a ‘grand coalition’ with Angela Merkel’s conservatives after projections showed they had scored their worst general election result in post-war history.

SPD leader Martin Schulz called it a “difficult and bitter day for German Social Democracy” after early projections put his party on just 20.2 percent, a distant second to Chancellor Merkel’s conservatives on 32.7 percent — which would also be their worst result since 1949.

“This is a rejection of the grand coalition,” said SPD parliamentary leader Thomas Oppermann on national TV.

Senior SPD figures said Schulz would remain party chairman, but his position might be untenable after such a weak campaign.

Glorious.

[niko_cee]

I'm sure there's a cushty job for him somewhere in the EU. It's where failed politicians go, after all.

[Lewis]

To reduce inequalities across the EU, [Emmanuel] Macron suggested greater harmonisation of tax policies, including taxing technology companies such as Facebook and Apple where they make money rather than where they are registered.

Macron also proposed that every EU country should guarantee a minimum wage and payroll charges. “I believe deeply in this innovation economy,” he said. However, Macron added, “we must have this debate” about making taxation fairer.

He vowed to revive the French-backed project of a financial transaction tax to fund overseas aid – an idea that has never got off the ground since it was proposed in the aftermath of the financial crisis.

On defence, Macron called for a Europe-wide “rapid-reaction force” to work with national armies and “a common strategic culture” of a joint European defence budget and policy, ideas already under discussion but in the early stages. He suggested the creation of a European intelligence academy to better fight against terrorism, and a joint civil protection force.

On the migration crisis, Macron said: “Making a place in Europe for refugees who have risked their life is our duty.” He pushed for a closer common asylum policy, currently a work in progress that has been criticised for failures. Macron also suggested a European asylum agency and standard EU identity documents.

Oh shit mate as if we won't be around for all that.

[Pepe]

:happycry:

[GS]

All under Franco-German leadership, no doubt. I, for one, am disappointed that we'll be missing out.

[Shindig]

A German military with a right-wing edge might be decent to watch.

[GS]

If the French have anything to do with it, they'll be on the retreat within the month and collaborating within the year.

[Lewis]

I'm not sure how you get those military plans to work as long as you have countries in the European Union but not in NATO and vice versa. Eventually the European wheeze would have to either become an alternative to NATO, or a unified European force would have to become a single member of it (either way probably ends up with Turkey spitting the dummy, so lol whatever)

[GS]

The only way any of this works in the long-term is a proper United States of Europe with common currencies, budgets, defence forces etc. Which would be shit, because there's no common language or culture to bind it together. So it'll fall apart, and then you're fucked trying to disentangle yourself from it.

[Lewis]

There will be by then: Arabic.

[GS]

There'll be no need to besiege Vienna this time either. They'll be waved in on the back of a social media campaign and Citizens of the World holding cardboard signs.

[Giggles]

Have I got this right? There was going to be a Catalan independence referendum that wasn't binding and wasn't going to pass anyway, so when it didn't pass it could be forgotten and brushed under the rug for a while like Scotland. And Spains reaction is to send in the riot police and drag people around by the head and fire plastic bullets at them?

Am I missing something massive or are the Spanish authorities just stupid as fuck?

[Lewis]

That sounds about right.

[phonics]

They've called off the Barcelona v Las Palmas match because of it. More than 300 injured.

[Giggles]

They've called off the Barcelona v Las Palmas match because of it. More than 300 injured.

It's on, but closed doors.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2017/1001/908849-catalonia/

[GS]

The Spanish are handling this horrendously. They should have just laughed at them, and that if they wanted to waste their money on a vanity exercise then fire on.

Not that I have much sympathy with the Catalans, mind you. You can't just disregard constitutional law when it suits you.

[Shindig]

They hold a fifth of Spain's overall wealth which amounts to £20. Even the Basques don't give a shit any more. Stand down.

[Kikó]

Not surprised that GS has no sympathy for people being battered by the state because state is king.

The Spanish are a disgrace.

[GS]

It's an illegal referendum they're holding in defiance of the Spanish Constitutional Court. You can't just ignore laws that you've signed up to because it's suddenly inconvenient, so it's not a 'subjective' issue as to whether the vote should be going ahead.

That said, whilst the Spanish response is fucking stupid and will only inflame the issue, it remains a 'legitimate' attempt to stop an activity that has been declared illegal by the recognised judicial court. Spain is indivisible, as stated in the constitution which the Catalans approved by referendum. The correct route here is negotiation with the Spanish government (see: the Edinburgh Agreement), not holding an illegal vote and then crying about it when the Spanish, entirely fairly, try to stop it from proceeding.

Saying it's a legitimate attempt by the Spanish state to stop illegal activity is not synonymous with saying that taking batons to them is a good idea, by the way. Lest anyone's views be misrepresented.

[phonics]

Lol they piled so many high security police to Catalonia that 50 people have escaped from the Madrid Immigration Detention Center.

And it sounds like the independence vote was going to lose as well.

Well done guys. You well and truly fucked it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If anyone knows how to handle a crisis and stop it escalating unnecessarily, it's definitely the Spaniards.

[Adramelch]

It's like the Spanish government have decided to shoot themselves in the foot. Rajoy's comments were stupid as fuck as well. Only going to escalate matters more.

[Giggles]

Someone should have showed them what happened here around a century ago when you you don't actually have an issue but are too blood hungry to help yourself, creating an actual issue.

[GS]

The absolute state of this from all sides. Apparently today has "paved the way", in true Alex Salmond-style prophecy, for a unilateral declaration of independence.

It's just embarrassing.

I wonder what level of correlation there is between Remain supporting wankers and those supporting the Catalan referendum. Probably quite high.

[Adramelch]

The thing is, Catalunya barely has anything to lose from all these shenanigans (politically) while the Spanish government definitely has.

[Sam]

It's just a monumental cock up from Madrid for this, if any were on the fence about leaving Spain, they've most likely jumped on board for independence. It's like wanting to stay warm so you set the house on fire, ridiculous from them.

Appears Indepence has began calling victory, will it actually happen?

[Magic]

Let's hope there's a big terrorist movement so films like Cell 911 keep on coming out.

[Adramelch]

It's just a monumental cock up from Madrid for this, if any were on the fence about leaving Spain, they've most likely jumped on board for independence. It's like wanting to stay warm so you set the house on fire, ridiculous from them.

Appears Indepence has began calling victory, will it actually happen?

Exactly that. I have coworkers which were definitely against independence and they're so annoyed by the situation. Will they change their minds? Maybe not, but it's definitely swung the momentum towards the independence movement.

In terms of the results, it's almost definite that independence will win given how the day went. But apart from that, any referendum that is illegal means that you'll see the pro-independence show up to vote, but the ones against will mostly not bother with it.

[Adramelch]

https://i.imgur.com/CnVXeuT.png

As expected. Only 40% went to vote and the majority of them were pro-independence.

[Jimmy Floyd]

From what I can gather they not only don't let them have the vote, but the line is 'Catalonia will never be independent under any circumstances and you'll never have a vote on it', which is fucking stupid and just guarantees eventual independence.

I'm not sure how it tallies with their daft whingeing about Gibraltar either.

[Shindig]

Surprised Barcelona FC only accounts for 1.5% of the city's GDP. I was expecting more.

[Spikey M]

I’d give them the vote but make them aware ahead of time that leaving Spain would mean leaving La Liga.

[Shindig]

Nah, you make this a national thing. An internationally Catalan team would be hamstringing them both. Although I'd love the state of a Catalan league. Barcelona and Espanyol playing each other 38 times.

[niko_cee]

They could just start a European Super League and not invite Tebas and his team(s).

Wouldn't Barcelona leaving Spain be a bit like if the South East/London tried to chuck the rest of the UK?

[Shindig]

Nah, there's only two clubs. It'd be like if the city of Liverpool left the league.

[niko_cee]

I meant economically.

[Giggles]

I meant economically.

Get your priorities right.

[Shindig]

I dunno. Do London clubs produce 1.5% of London's GDP?

[niko_cee]

I'm not sure how it tallies with their daft whingeing about Gibraltar either.

It fits perfectly. They don't respect the right to self-determination either within Spain's territorial limits, or outside of them.


I dunno. Do London clubs produce 1.5% of London's GDP?

Hmmm, good question. I would guess not. They could make a better league though.

[Adramelch]

I’d give them the vote but make them aware ahead of time that leaving Spain would mean leaving La Liga.

There's been talk that they could play in Ligue 1, Monaco-style.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Barcelona, Espanyol, Girona and Gimnastic. I'm sure there are sillier leagues in American sport.

[Sam]

Couldn't see La Liga not accepting Barcelona (and other Catalan clubs) in the league structure. The latter are one of the two premium draws in the league.

[Lewis]

They were on about joining other leagues, and it would be interesting to see how that went down. The stiffs in charge would obviously see the extra pound signs, but would the clubs want them? I don't remember the Italians being overly enthusiastic when Bayern threatened to join them (as only Germans could) in 2003, so I reckon the French would be the only ones getting the bunting out in the hope that it made them a major league.

[Adramelch]

Given how openly Barcelona have supported the independence movement in the last few years (although this time they only supported the right to vote), you'd assume there's a solid plan in regards to the league situation. Staying in La Liga being the most likely scenario.

[Shindig]

Well, yeah. Otherwise Catalunya would have to get UEFA status and then piss about in Champions' League / Europa League first-round qualifiers.

[Adramelch]

I have a free day off work tomorrow because the University campus is going to be closed for the general strike. Clearly worth the 900 people that got injured.

[GS]

The EU's non-reaction to the whole thing has been great, too.

I also see the Nats have been embarrassing themselves up north again. It must be exhausting manufacturing new reasons to be outraged all the time.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLKY46EW4AAMZuv.jpg

It wouldn't happen in Scotland, like.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLKeVSZXkAATmQv.jpg

[Shindig]

Pidgemount or whatever is prepared to declare independence in a matter of days.

[Magic]

This is how WW3 starts, isn't it. Trust Europe.

[Magic]

Is that Marc Marquez on the cover lol.

[Shindig]

Nah, Marc still looks about 17.

[Magic]

The EU's non-reaction to the whole thing has been great, too.

I also see the Nats have been embarrassing themselves up north again. It must be exhausting manufacturing new reasons to be outraged all the time.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLKY46EW4AAMZuv.jpg

It wouldn't happen in Scotland, like.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLKeVSZXkAATmQv.jpg

I've just seen the spoiler. Fuck me. That would be amazing to troll on Facebook.

[GS]

The cybernat crowd a bunch of lunatics, and they seem to have retreated deeper into the Fuhrerbunker after the general election. The irony will probably be lost on them.

[John]

The real hardcore are now fully engaged with the Catalan mob and sharing ten petitions a minute as if Catalan independence would somehow be a victory for them. The petitions are all created by people with distinctly British names too, so it seems they're still struggling with how democracy works.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Westminster 'breaks vow to promote whisky' is absolutely peak Scot Nat.

[Magic]

Imagine reading a publication like that. No wonder they're all lunatics.

[phonics]

I think the King of Spain coming on TV and telling people that the Catalan vote was undemocratic probably won't do the job he hopes it will.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He is a mong. This whole thing is just El Clasico writ large, isn't it.

[GS]

They're knowingly breaching constitutional law. His position is correct. There's no point humouring the secessionists.

[Spikey M]

Imagine Lizzy sticking her nose in like this. We’d republic the fuck out of the gaff.

[phonics]

They're knowingly breaching constitutional law. His position is correct. There's no point humouring the secessionists.

The KING of Spain cannot call anything undemocratic unless he's abdicating and that's without getting into how massively corrupt his entire family is.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They're knowingly breaching constitutional law. His position is correct. There's no point humouring the secessionists.

Yeah but for non-idiots, the right to self-determination sits above constitutional law. Under constitutional law they could never secede under any circumstances because, er, Spain.

This is why we let Scotland have their vote, rather than Dave sending the Flying Squad up to knock heads together in Montrose.

[GS]

The Spanish constitution was passed by referendum in 1978. That's the legal position, and it holds democratic legitimacy. There an entire court in the judicial branch sitting there to interpret it. The constitutional court ruled that this vote was illegal. You can't ignore law because it's inconvenient, as any non idiot would recognise.

[phonics]

We ignore laws because they're inconvenient literally every day.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm not saying it's constitutionally legal. Constitutions are just made up shite that someone has written down in the past. I'm saying it's politically thick as shit bordering on suicidal not to allow it.

Also the top tier of Spanish society is laughably corrupt, who cares what they think.

[Byron]

The Spanish constitution was passed by referendum in 1978. That's the legal position, and it holds democratic legitimacy. There an entire court in the judicial branch sitting there to interpret it. The constitutional court ruled that this vote was illegal. You can't ignore law because it's inconvenient, as any non idiot would recognise.

I am curious as to what precisely Catalonia could have done though. There wasn't any sort of dialogue like we had with the Scots (which allows us to tell them to do one) it's just the equivalent of Madrid sticking their fingers in their ears and going LA-LA-LA-LA WE CAN'T HEAR YOU.

It's all well and good saying that this constitution was agreed by referendum but we agreed to join the EU in a referendum and lo and behold several decades later we decide to leave that EU by referendum, so the idea that the constitution should mean no flexibility is stupid (see: America)

That said, what a monumental fuck up from Spain. If they had allowed the referendum, it may well have lost and they'd be able to sit there and go 'well yeah but 55% amigo' Instead they've managed to revive all this imagery of Madrid stomping on the rest of Spain, Franco style.

[phonics]

I'm not sure you could get any worse optics than a plain clothes police officer in a balaclava ripping a ballot box out of a pensioners hands.

[Adramelch]

Society wouldn't have evolved much if everyone just stuck to following the law.

[Magic]

GS reminds me of what it'll be like in the year 2150 when robots rule the world. A perfect subservient. Question nothing.

[Kikó]

It's the law. Desist citizen.

[GS]

GS reminds me of what it'll be like in the year 2150 when robots rule the world. A perfect subservient. Question nothing.

I question the law. I elect MPs to change it in a way which accords with my political views. What I don't do, however, is break it and defend myself with such nonsense as "it's just words someone wrote down ages ago and I should be able to ignore it where I don't agree with it".

"Keeks" here would go fucking berserk if companies decided to ignore minimum wage legislation because they "didn't have enough cash flow to pay it". "It's the law!" isn't something you fall back on when it's convenient, and you'd have to be a fool to think otherwise.

[Jimmy Floyd]

What if Corbyn gets power with a 500 majority of full on headbangers and cedes the Falklands to Argentina against their will? Will the residents there just have to put up with it because it's the law?

[Magic]

I question the law. I elect MPs to change it in a way which accords with my political views. What I don't do, however, is break it and defend myself with such nonsense as "it's just words someone wrote down ages ago and I should be able to ignore it where I don't agree with it".

"Keeks" here would go fucking berserk if companies decided to ignore minimum wage legislation because they "didn't have enough cash flow to pay it". "It's the law!" isn't something you fall back on when it's convenient, and you'd have to be a fool to think otherwise.

That's corporate law, you cheese merchant.

[phonics]

GS reminds me of what it'll be like in the year 2150 when robots rule the world. A perfect subservient. Question nothing.

GS would have been a big time collaborator if the Battle of Britain went the other way. "They won the war fair and square so now we have to listen to them"

[GS]

What if Corbyn gets power with a 500 majority of full on headbangers and cedes the Falklands to Argentina against their will? Will the residents there just have to put up with it because it's the law?

It would represent a considerable improvement for him wouldn't it, given his views the last time there was an attempt to coerce British citizens on the question.

What would the Falklands do, exactly? Invade us? We can take this argument to illogical extremes, but it's not going to prove anything.

[GS]

That's corporate law, you cheese merchant.

So you should follow some types of law and not others? Who decides which laws you can ignore and can't? Talk us through it.

[GS]

GS would have been a big time collaborator if the Battle of Britain went the other way. "They won the war fair and square so now we have to listen to them"

The Germans wouldn't have beaten us if they'd won the Battle of Britain, you half wit.

[Adramelch]

Social change has historically come through people breaking the law.

[GS]

Social change has historically come through people breaking the law.

Before universal suffrage. Spain is an advanced democracy, not France circa 1785.

[Mazuuurk]

This is a pointless discussion.

Everyone have varying degrees of pragmatism about them, some people are more pragmatic than others.

"The Law" is of course partially an arbitrary concept, just like paying with Money is - it's based on some sort of common agreement amongst people of what is OK and what isn't. That's why some "law" are in practice not enforced, specially these old insane (see?) ones that state stuff such as "You're not allowed to own a Goat between October and Mars" or maybe more modern laws about stuff such as Jaywalking or taking a piss in a "public" space (is the forest a public space, for instance?).

It's easy to say you should respect all laws so long as you think they are - mostly - sound. But if it was suddenly made illegal to drive or eat meat, for instance, maybe you'd have trouble with the law all of a sudden. Maybe that would be where the line has been crossed for you where laws no longer makes sense (maybe the line is much further away, but you get the point).

The thing is that that line is arbitrary and different for everyone and if enough people think it has been crossed, well. It's much like the whole "Fake news!" phenomenon really. Have enough people believe in something - regardless of whether it is "true" or not, and that will end up being the new reality.

[phonics]

The Germans wouldn't have beaten us if they'd won the Battle of Britain, you half wit.

That's the part you have issue with, not the assertion you'd be a nazi collaborator if they had won the war? Telling.

[GS]

Thankfully, leaving the EU will restore accountability in this country for shit laws. We can then elect people who won't pass shit laws and will repeal the even shitter ones. Whilst the shit law is on the statute book, you can't complain if you wind up imprisoned on the back of breaking it. "It's a stupid law" won't get you too far, I'd wager.

This will obviously break down if we put the Marxists in charge, at which point defiance to save the country would be a public duty.

[GS]

That's the part you have issue with, not the assertion you'd be a nazi collaborator if they had won the war? Telling.

You really need to find something else to do with your time, because it's starting to border on the pathetic how you manage to appear immediately after I post all the time.

[Mazuuurk]

This will obviously break down if we put the Marxists in charge, at which point defiance to save the country would be a public duty.

See, I somehow bet the Marxists feel this way about non-Marxists being in charge.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If the elected government of a region decides to hold a referendum then it should be allowed to hold one. Heil Hitler.

[phonics]

You really need to find something else to do with your time, because it's starting to border on the pathetic how you manage to appear immediately after I post all the time.

There's only about 12 posters these days, brother. One of us has got to come after you. I didn't even reply to you, you replied to me. Get in your gulag.

[GS]

See, I somehow bet the Marxists feel this way about non-Marxists being in charge.

The Marxists can only remain in power by crushing dissent, because that's the only way to cover up the destruction of the country. Hence defiance of the inevitable police state would be a necessity if you actually value individualism and freedom of any kind.


If the elected government of a region decides to hold a referendum then it should be allowed to hold one. Heil Hitler.

What about if Barcelona wishes to secede next year?

When it was suggested that the Shetlands may wish to remain as part of the UK and this should be an option in the event of a yes vote, the Nats went berserk.

[Adramelch]

Before universal suffrage. Spain is an advanced democracy, not France circa 1785.

There's a lot of examples in recent history. See Mandela for example.

I'm not saying what the Catalans did was right by the way, just trying to show that "it's the law" means nothing in some cases.

[GS]

There's a lot of examples in recent history. See Mandela for example.

I'm not saying what the Catalans did was right by the way, just trying to show that "it's the law" means nothing in some cases.

There was no national universal suffrage in South Africa under apartheid.

I think we really have to start from a basic understanding that advanced democracies with universal suffrage don't bear comparison to the Middle Ages and their equivalents.

[Byron]

So basically;

If Corbyn is in charge = we need to resist and defy the law
If the Tories remain in charge = we must obey the law as it is good and great.

[Pepe]

This is great. :lol:

[Mazuuurk]

The Marxists can only remain in power by crushing dissent, because that's the only way to cover up the destruction of the country. Hence defiance of the inevitable police state would be a necessity if you actually value individualism and freedom of any kind.


Err, yeah ok.

I was just pointing out that you have an opinion, some other people have another opinion. They won't change yours, you won't change theirs. So have a pint and don't bother discussing about it because it's pointless.

[Mazuuurk]

On the topic of "THE LAW", I don't see how you can say it's illegal to hold a vote about something if you want to do that. If the vote was about whether they should rename La Rambla to La Bamba they should be allowed to do that, right? Now such a thing they might as a Municipality or State or whatever they are be allowed to carry out the effects of, whereas a secession vote they would clearly not have the mandate as a state to do, thus making it a vote, and nothing more.

[GS]

So basically;

If Corbyn is in charge = we need to resist and defy the law
If the Tories remain in charge = we must obey the law as it is good and great.

Wrong.

In the event it resulted in a police state which crushed the democratic process. Which it probably would if he was there for any length of time, because that's what Marxism will inevitably lead to.

Not if he's putting bills through parliament and onto the statute book using the correct procedure. If it's this, then there are checks in the system, and that's tough shit for the rest of us until the country realises he's useless. Probably around the time when they're putting the family pet into a kitchen pot for dinner.

There's really no point in this where people are being willfully thick.

[GS]

On the topic of "THE LAW", I don't see how you can say it's illegal to hold a vote about something if you want to do that. If the vote was about whether they should rename La Rambla to La Bamba they should be allowed to do that, right? Now such a thing they might as a Municipality or State or whatever they are be allowed to carry out the effects of, whereas a secession vote they would clearly not have the mandate as a state to do, thus making it a vote, and nothing more.

It's a question of whether it falls within their remit and competence.

Where do you draw the line on allowing secessionist votes? Regions, cities, towns, streets?

[Mazuuurk]

You don't. You let people get along with whatever the fuck they wish to spend their time and money on so long as it's in their mandate to do so, within the law, right? If the Catalonian governing people would start voting about everything, so let them. Surely people would get a bit tired of them wasting their resources on incessant voting (or the effects of wasting those resources).

I mean fuck, don't they vote on practically what to name a street or where to put the post office in Switzerland?


If it says in Spanish law that holding a vote about something is illegal, then it would be, but from what I understand there are no such laws or rules.

Seceeding from a country, however, would obviously be illegal and if Catalonia as an entity tried to do that, whether they had voted about it or not, then there would be cause for intervention.

[Pepe]

They could have just let them have their referendum and say 'whatevz it's ilegal anyway so we won't recognize the result' instead of resorting to violence.

[phonics]

It's fine when the state does violence. Protesting that state violence however, is immoral/wrong/communist.

[Adramelch]

They could have just let them have their referendum and say 'whatevz it's ilegal anyway so we won't recognize the result' instead of resorting to violence.

That's what has been done in previous occasions, so it was quite "shocking" how they decided to handle it now.

[GS]

You don't. You let people get along with whatever the fuck they wish to spend their time and money on so long as it's in their mandate to do so, within the law, right? If the Catalonian governing people would start voting about everything, so let them. Surely people would get a bit tired of them wasting their resources on incessant voting (or the effects of wasting those resources).

I mean fuck, don't they vote on practically what to name a street or where to put the post office in Switzerland?


If it says in Spanish law that holding a vote about something is illegal, then it would be, but from what I understand there are no such laws or rules.

Seceeding from a country, however, would obviously be illegal and if Catalonia as an entity tried to do that, whether they had voted about it or not, then there would be cause for intervention.

The Spanish constitution says that Spain is indivisible, and the Spanish constitutional court said the vote was illegal. So there are 'such laws or rules' to ban the vote.

I reiterate that I think the Spanish have handled it horrendously, but it doesn't excuse the Catalan government acting like wankers.

[GS]

They could have just let them have their referendum and say 'whatevz it's ilegal anyway so we won't recognize the result' instead of resorting to violence.

I agree.

[Pepe]

They could have just let them have their referendum and say 'whatevz it's ilegal anyway so we won't recognize the result' instead of resorting to violence.

With that said, to expect the Spanish government to take an actual independence attempt nicely is far-fetched, to say the least. Didn't go that well for the Basque Country, did it?

[Pepe]

That's what has been done in previous occasions, so it was quite "shocking" how they decided to handle it now.

It is weird. Rajoy definitely shat the bed on this one.

Do the Catalans even have a proper transition plan in place or do they plan to make it up as they go along?

[phonics]

It is weird. Rajoy definitely shat the bed on this one.

Do the Catalans even have a proper transition plan in place or do they plan to make it up as they go along?

You don't need a plan. You just say secession means secession for 9 months and then it's all sorted.

[John]

There will be an 'independence march' in Glasgow on Monday in support of the Catalans. Apparently the petitions weren't quite futile enough for the desperate twats.

[Adramelch]

Given that Catalonia is an autonomous state of sorts, a lot of stuff is already in place. The big question is what happens with the EU? Presumably for a country to join the EU, you want all member states to agree, and there's no chance Spain agrees to something like that. Do the Catalans want to join the EU? That I don't know, but if they do, there's a clear problem.

[Lewis]

GS: 'There are ways to go about it, but their constitution says...'
Others: 'So if they banned toilets you would just let yourself burst?!'

[Pepe]

Shit in a hole, surely.

[Lewis]

It's still a toilet.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There aren't ways to go about it. Spain always blocks things like Kosovo being independent as well.

[Mazuuurk]

The Spanish constitution says that Spain is indivisible, and the Spanish constitutional court said the vote was illegal. So there are 'such laws or rules' to ban the vote.

I reiterate that I think the Spanish have handled it horrendously, but it doesn't excuse the Catalan government acting like wankers.

We agree then.

[Byron]

Puigdemont speaking to the Catalan parliament in a few minutes, with it being highly expected that he will ask for there to be a unilateral declaration of independence.

Spanish troops marching in and fucking the whole situation up as they always do :drool:

[niko_cee]

Does Catalunya border the basque country (I assume it does)? They should chuck it together and isolate the Iberian peninsula from the rest of the EU.

[John Arne]

41% turnout surely means that there is no mandate, or even willingness, for Independence?

[John Arne]

Does Catalunya border the basque country (I assume it does)? They should chuck it together and isolate the Iberian peninsula from the rest of the EU.

No.

https://www.eyeonspain.com/userfiles/image/mac75/Spain4.jpg

[niko_cee]

Dang. Maybe they could forge some sort of tie up with the French basques and the Andorrans.

Quite surprised how small the Basque country is.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Old Pigmont is going to either end up going Bonnie Prince Charlie or Bonnie and Clyde. Such pathos about him and his stupid floppy hair.

[Lewis]

Don't forget the French Catalans, although I think every single one of them is over sixty and fat, so I wouldn't count on them turning out.

[Adramelch]

He's been spouting generic shit for like half an hour now. Gotta love those people.

[Mazuuurk]

Expecting some rioting, police beating up old women etc etc

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41780116

[Lewis]

The people doing most of the posing when they had that vote have gone missing now it seems to be getting more serious. The central government will shut their little parliament down, and that will be it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If the Spanish have still got anything about them, Pigmont will be found dead on a hillside within the week.

[Spikey M]

So Puigdemont is both President of a new country and unemployed at the same time. I love this shit.

[Mazuuurk]

It's all a bit like that episode of Family Guy where Peter declares that his House & Garden is it's own country.

[Lewis]

If this ends up with matey claiming asylum in Belgium then Spain deserves some sort of prize for lols.

[Jimmy Floyd]

https://europa.eu/taxedu/taxlandia_en

THIS is why I voted Leave.

[Lewis]

I was duped by Russian Twitter bots.

[niko_cee]

Is this some sort of rebranding exercise for Luxembourg?

[niko_cee]

Although, having spent the best part of an evening tinkering with it, I am not entirely sure this thing is sending the message I assume they want it to send (you have to pay tax to have nice things). I've managed to max everything out within a decade and am now ticking along at a tax rate of less than 10% (and running a massive surplus with that) and all it took was 2 or 3 years of a 30% rate to buy everything I wanted (which would be seen as an aggressively low rate by modern EU standards). Fucking lol at being able to get away with spending less than 5% on health and education combined whilst spending ten times that on 'administration'. Then again, maybe that is the message. Or maybe they should have incorporated a feature where you have to pay billions to a bunch of arseholes who make everything worse to make it a bit trickier.

[Jimmy Floyd]

People becoming happy when you 'invest' was the scariest part for me.

[Yevrah]

I've put tax rates up to 70%, let's see how that flies.

[Shindig]

It must fly if the other 27 member states agree to every bump and cut.

[Giggles]

Who the fuck has an election in the run up to Christmas? All those fucking cunts calling to the door annoying us :nono:

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2017/1124/922489-fitzgerald-politics/

[Lewis]

It's impressive how his Irish spudface genes utterly overpower any Indian features he could have inherited.

[Giggles]

He's a woefully bland twat.

I don't know what his politics are but that doesn't really matter seeing as they'll all just lie for 3 weeks, annoy everyone, and do fuck all in the end up anyway.

[Pepe]

http://thehill.com/news-by-subject/energy-environment/364228-macron-to-award-us-climate-scientists-with-make-our-planet

I am sure French scientists are thrilled to know that their government rather throw money at Americans for a little bit of PR than fund their work.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Why is Macron everyone's darling? He's a digusting weasel.

[Lewis]

Answered your own question there.

[Pepe]

Because he allegedly saved Europe? Fuck knows.

[Pepe]

Sarkozy getting done. :drool:

[phonics]

Best news in Politics in years.

[Pepe]

Charged for corruption, illegal campaign contributions and theft of public funds. :harold: