Is Judging Attractiveness Offensive

[John Arne]

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/nov/04/harvard-men-soccer-team-season-lewd-rankings-female-players

The Havard men's team have had their season ended early due to a list that went around judging the attractiveness of 1st year players in the women's team (since 2012).

I really don't see how this is at all a "punishable" crime. Yes, the guys are idiots, but judging the attractiveness of someone, and even making the odd lewd comment in a document between mates is hardly offensive. It's stupid, but it's not a massive wrong-doing (it's not like they are running for president and made the comment on a magazine interview tour bus).

Maybe it's my white privilege, but whenever I hear Viet chicks discussing my attractiveness (or lack thereof), I either ignore them, take it as a compliment, or run home crying to my girlfriend.

Interestingly, on the Havard website, the sponsored link below the article was this.. "Who’s the Most Gorgeous Woman In Your Country?"
http://brainberries.co/people/whos-the-most-gorgeous-woman-in-your-country/?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=brainberries.co_desk_inter&utm_campaign=brainberries.co_desk_inter&utm_term=5529419s3844&utm_content=1743675 (Warning, pop up on site NSFW)

Again, I am weary of being a privileged white male, but I certainly subscribe to the "stick's and stone's" approach. Ok, you called me a "stupid white foreigner" - I don't care... I'm going to ignore you, and get on with it. However, if you start to actively discriminate against me - that's when I take issue.

So yeah, is this a storm in a tea cup, or should these young men be respecting these women and not talking about them like this.



Apologise for the somewhat clunky phrasing, I'm tired.

[Spoonsky]

Ivy League colleges are the most liberal and politically correct places on the planet, they had no choice but to shut the team down. The consequences would probably have been different at a state school.

It's not inherently offensive; the problem is that it's one-sided, and women are judged based on looks far more than men are. You'd never see the women's team make an equivalent list about the men, it wouldn't even cross your mind. There's also a difference between 'ranking' girls in a casual conversation with a friend, and making a fucking list of it and putting it on the internet.

[Spoonsky]

Also - you're white?

[Magic]

I think it's offensive, yes.

Bearing in mind these clowns are probably going to be running the country at some point.

[John Arne]

I am white, yes.

Also, I think you underestimate (some) women. Most women (especially late 20's, early 30's), love to judge men on their appearance and will happily gossip between their friends on the topic (which is fine, of course).

Did they not just share on it email to themselves, rather than posting it somewhere on the net? But, even that is pretty stupid. This just sounds like young men being idiots.

Good point on the fact that it is Havard - certainly appreciate that.

[Spoonsky]

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2016/10/25/harvard-mens-soccer-2012-report/

It's pretty bad.


Also, I think you underestimate (some) women. Most women (especially late 20's, early 30's), love to judge men on their appearance and will happily gossip between their friends on the topic (which is fine, of course).

Of course women gossip, but can you really argue that women are judged for their appearance far more than men are? That is an inequality, and one that's perpetuated by 'young men being idiots.' I have no problem with a school taking a stand against it, and certainly no pity for those asshats.

[John Arne]

Of course women gossip, but can you really argue that women are judged for their appearance far more than men are? That is an inequality, and one that's perpetuated by 'young men being idiots.' I have no problem with a school taking a stand against it, and certainly no pity for those asshats.

I'd agree with that.
I just find the punishment too harsh. Again, the guys are obviously morons, but you can stop people from having opinions which they share with tier friends - it probably isn't helped by the fact that this is shared amongst a large group of people with a university side.

[John Arne]

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2016/10/25/harvard-mens-soccer-2012-report/

It's pretty bad.



It's pretty tame, to be fair.


The author of the “report” often included sexually explicit descriptions of the women. He wrote of one woman that “she looks like the kind of girl who both likes to dominate, and likes to be dominated.”
Each woman was assigned a hypothetical sexual “position” in addition to her position on the soccer field.
“She seems relatively simple and probably inexperienced sexually, so I decided missionary would be her preferred position,” the author wrote about one woman. “Doggy style,” “The Triple Lindy,” and “cowgirl” were listed as possible positions for other women.

...is hardly "sexually explicit".

It's more weird/stupid that they thought it a good idea to get all the team involved and share using Google Groups.

[John Arne]

Oh God, I'm turning to Mert.

Fucking libtards.

[Giggles]

Oh God, I'm turning to Mert.

Fucking libtards.

In fairness it's not hard fall into it when you're dealing with Spoon and his massive vagina.

[Spoonsky]

It's pretty tame, to be fair.

...is hardly "sexually explicit".

It's more weird/stupid that they thought it a good idea to get all the team involved and share using Google Groups.

It's a bit further than saying that Jane the striker is hotter than Carly the center-back.

Love you too Giggles.

[John Arne]

It's a bit further than saying that Jane the striker is hotter than Carly the center-back.



Yes, it is. But is it enough to warrant punishment? Essentially young men joking about which sexual positions they would try with a woman, in (relative) privacy?

Have you ever told a mate that you found someone attractive, or that you thought a woman (or man) had a decent body, or a appreciable rack? Or did you ever watch Cat Woman and comment that Halle Berry was a smoke show?

[John Arne]

For reference....

http://solarey.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Halle-Berry-As-Catwoman-02.jpg

[ItalAussie]

It's pretty gross. But the problem they have is that college sport teams have come under the microscope because of a huge number of incidents. If it were the only time something remotely like this (let alone many far worse things) had happened in a college sport side, then they'd probably not have gotten hammered in the same way. But given the number of cases of violence and rape, as well as aspects of team cultures that make the news with worrying frequency.

You don't slack off at work when the boss is looking. You don't commit fraud during an audit. You don't write up sex lists when the entire college sport culture is under serious scrutiny. Especially not after you were already warned a few years earlier.

[John Arne]

All fair points.

Apart from the audit bit. You don't commit fraud during the audit, but you do invite the auditors to the beach or the weekend and buy them some decent gifts.

[Spammer]

Also - you're white?

What does that have to so with anything?

Edit: my bad, I should have read his post properly.

[John Arne]

Your opinion means more if you are non-White /milo

Nah, I think he may have thought that I was Victor-Charlie, perhaps.

[Disco]

..but you do invite the auditors to the beach or the weekend and buy them some decent gifts.

Do you?

We were audited this week and forbidden by the auditors to offer anything other than tea or coffee.

[John Arne]

Ha! Capitalist scum.

[Spammer]

Yeah I'd say the guys are a bunch of retards and should get hammered for it. Especially as they did it in such a lackadaisical way so that the fucking college and no doubt others heard about it. Pillocks. I think they're right to be made an example of.

[Disco]

Discussing that kind of thing amongst friends is one thing, writing it all down in some kind of weird report is fucked up.

[7om]

I think the only mistake they made was allowing to get out of the close circle it was probably intended for, but making some crap list about who is attractive and who isn't is a non-story. Or it would have been 5 years ago but we're in the age where people are desperate to be offended and this will do nicely.

[phonics]

I think it would be a non-story if there hadn't been a slew of sexual assault cases against athletics team members.

Remember the swimmer who raped that girl behind a bin and got 3 months because to hold him any longer would 'hurt a potentially excellent swimming career'?

[igor_balis]

Getting told off by my hollier than thou mate for saying a woman has nice tits or whatever is fucking annoying but rating girls en masse like that is fucking creepy if nothing else.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There's something extremely odd about US college sport, but I can't put my finger on what it is. Perhaps it's the only thing people ever feel they belong to in the course of a whole American life, because their culture is otherwise so ruthlessly capitalist and oppressive.

[Lewis]

Did they honestly think that they could just go around having opinions? In current year? They deserve this.

[7om]

There's something extremely odd about US college sport, but I can't put my finger on what it is. Perhaps it's the only thing people ever feel they belong to in the course of a whole American life, because their culture is otherwise so ruthlessly capitalist and oppressive.

Yeah, it's certainly eye opening to experience.

You see old men and women walking around wearing their college's football team or basketball team tops and people with personalised number plates with their alma mater all over it. People don't seem to understand me when I say we graduate and then barely have any connection to our universities when we leave, here it's like you're bound for life. The only logical explanation I have is that because the country is so big people follow the local university or college in place of a local football team that we would support but even then it feels more sinister here, Cult like, almost.

[Boydy]

Pretty sure the rugby team at my college got pulled up for something similar.

[Pepe]

I'm having a hard time caring either way.

[Spikey M]

Men do it to other men, women do it to other women, and round and round we go. It's a fact of life and will remain so. Is it offensive? I don't really gove a fuck. It's not going anywhere regardless.

[Shindig]

There's something extremely odd about US college sport, but I can't put my finger on what it is. Perhaps it's the only thing people ever feel they belong to in the course of a whole American life, because their culture is otherwise so ruthlessly capitalist and oppressive.

Imagine the fact that the thick Oxbridge toffs get stuck on the rowing career. Now imagine that system blown out to a nation's entire sporting pedigree. Except baseball, maybe. College Baseball might be a thing.

[Queenslander]

Four Merts at my local Apple Store got fired for stealing photos from customers phones and uploading them to a website they created.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/questnews/southeast/police-issue-warning-after-one-of-queenslands-busiest-apple-stores-is-hit-by-photo-stealing-allegations/news-story/8423c7cf7902c7454003fd50fcc1db23

[Vim]

I don't see the point in ending the team's season. Release any facebook chat between a group of guys and no team would ever be allowed to finish their season.

[Pepe]

All about TAKING A STANCE.

[Lewis]

Which fucks them for the future. How can you suspend a football team for 'run[ning] counter to the mutual respect that is a core value of our community' without, say, hammering the next lot of black people to shut a library down?

[Bartholomert]

Women are absolutely ruthless when judging men, and routinely tear apart a mans entire self worth and being without a second thought when speaking amongst friends (because such cruelty raises their own relative self-esteem and standing within the group). The truth is women love being objectified, why else do you think they dress up and put on make up- to be judged as attractive. It's a transparent double standard perpetuated by desperately shrieking unattractive feminists who know themselves to be inadequate. Pussy liberal men just uncomfortably nod and go along with it because they think agreeing will help them get laid, but unfortunately those feminists are still only interested in the alphas doing the objectifying they've villified.

Welcome to life in 2016. Only option is to be dope enough to override the ultimately meaningless and detached from reality rhetoric.

[Pepe]

Which fucks them for the future. How can you suspend a football team for 'run[ning] counter to the mutual respect that is a core value of our community' without, say, hammering the next lot of black people to shut a library down?

By not giving a fuck about such shit as ideals and values. All about protecting the brand nowadays.

[Vim]

Yes, obviously it's protecting the brand, but the problem lies with what you need to protect the brand from. If today we didn't have a culture of being offended then there's no need to protect the brand from that.

[Lewis]

Short of it being revealed as the epicentre of a global noncing racket, the Harvard 'brand' is surely untouchable.

[Spikey M]

Well, rich people sure do love a good noncing.

[Spoonsky]

Your opinion means more if you are non-White /milo

Nah, I think he may have thought that I was Victor-Charlie, perhaps.

I thought you were the Asian guy eating a duck. I don't know if that's the same thing.

[Bartholomert]

I thought you were the Asian guy eating a duck. I don't know if that's the same thing.

I did too tbh, it was a valid question.

[Boydy]

That was Benny.

[Baz]

http://www.kappit.com/img/pics/201609_0714_hcddf_sm.jpg