News of the day

[Jimmy Floyd]

I know this isn't - or can't be - entirely serious, but those aren't equivalent positives and negatives.

The problem with the immigration debate is that 'immigrants' is a largely pointless term. Immigrants from wealthy countries are more likely than not to make a positive financial and social contribution, and, as every country that bothers to collect the data has found, immigrants from crap countries are not. If you could click your fingers and every Somalian in the United Kingdom vanished the only noticeable trends would be thousands of vacant council houses and less crime being committed. The same would not be the case for Chinese or American immigrants. This should be the main point informing the immigration debate, but the people in charge of it are of the same mindset as you, that if you want the wage suppression you have to accept the wage suppression, and you couldn't do anything about it anyway because if we stop the wage suppression how will we suppress the wages?

There must be shit tons of things that go into the situation being as it is. Diplomatic deals with Hindu-nationalist India. Lack of allocated resources to recruit officers to enforce against illegals. Local politicans, mosques and 'community figures' sponsoring people through. Costa Coffee wanting cheap staff. The nation's money-laundering shopfront network wanting staff they can pay nothing under the table. Chinese espionage. Benefits being generous. Refugees fleeing actual war. Political capital from the Guardian calling you racist every day for years.

No one is honest about almost any of the above. It's all run through simplistic nonsense arguments such as 'vibrant communities' or alternatively 'enough is enough'. Can the government do what you have done and say Somalians are a bunch of worthless wasters and no one with a Somalian origin will henceforth be allowed into the country? There are a thousand things preventing that from happening. Do it anyway? Fine, but then you'll get called an ethnic cleanser and lose all your political capital to be able to do anything else.

Same process applies for almost any issue you can name. Let's build three million houses - great idea - but not only are the classic Nimby boomers on your case, but developers are on your case, George Monbiot is on your case, dog walkers are, estate agents, grannies, gays, smokers, non-smokers, everyone objects for their own small reason and these add up. Despite this complex web of paralysing bullshit, 83% of people, which is most people, live at historical levels of prosperous comfort. That is why all your political capital is tied up in the Waitrose car park shaking their heads about things, and that is also why nobody is radical and takes risks - because for the majority, life has been getting better for a very long time now, regardless of whether they feel it has or not, and no democratic government wants to be the government that gambled away that state of affairs. If you feel that democracy has run its course and dictatorship is now required, then that could be a legitimate argument, but I don't see a single person making it.

The only two properly radical British PMs in the last hundred years have been Thatcher and Attlee (arguably Blair, but not really) and they both inherited a pile of rubble. No rubble is forthcoming now unless there's some kind of external trauma (war or major economic collapse) on the horizon.

And that's not to mention the financial markets, who accounted for the Truss weirdos trying something different and would also have accounted for Corbyn had he ever got in.

[Lewis]

Again, all of these various factors aren't equally valid or in any way inevitable, so you are just creating nonsensical reasoning for putting everything on the too hard pile and not taking any particular position on anything for fuck knows why. The system is shit and leads to shit outcomes. Yes, but that is the system. Oh right.

[Yevrah]

Lewie, if you were in power tomorrow what'd be some of the first things you'd do (assuming they could be introduced immediately)?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Again, all of these various factors aren't equally valid or in any way inevitable, so you are just creating nonsensical reasoning for putting everything on the too hard pile and not taking any particular position on anything for fuck knows why. The system is shit and leads to shit outcomes. Yes, but that is the system. Oh right.

The system is global capitalism.

[Lewis]

The system is global capitalism.

It can't be because everything you've listed there, beyond a readiness to furnish businesses with a constant supply of cheap labour (and even that appears to be done as much with 'community leaders' and the Guardian in mind as large corporations), ultimately works to stunt economic growth in this country. It's paralysis by design.

[Lewis]

Lewie, if you were in power tomorrow what'd be some of the first things you'd do (assuming they could be introduced immediately)?

I would unban Harold, and then set about inducing millions of foreigners to leave. You could accomplish this with relatively straight-forward changes to employment and benefit rules, such as only issuing benefits to people with British citizenship (whilst also making that much harder to obtain, and back-dating it ten years) whilst massively increasing salary thresholds for all but the most critical shortage occupations, and ruthlessly booting out any and all illegals and trouble-causers. The downstream effects of this are a tidy-if-partial solution to the housing crisis, a shot in the arm for economic productivity, decreasing the pressure on our creaking shit infrastructure, less crime, restoring faith in the benefits system, and - the biggest prize of all - stabilising the national demographic profile and (hopefully) preventing ethnic conflict down the line.

After dinner you could get to work on a nuclear roll-out and locking up repeat offenders forever.

[Boydy]

Couldn't you have expressed that all in 14 words?

[Jimmy Floyd]

I would unban Harold, and then set about inducing millions of foreigners to leave. You could accomplish this with relatively straight-forward changes to employment and benefit rules, such as only issuing benefits to people with British citizenship (whilst also making that much harder to obtain, and back-dating it ten years) whilst massively increasing salary thresholds for all but the most critical shortage occupations, and ruthlessly booting out any and all illegals and trouble-causers. The downstream effects of this are a tidy-if-partial solution to the housing crisis, a shot in the arm for economic productivity, decreasing the pressure on our creaking shit infrastructure, less crime, restoring faith in the benefits system, and - the biggest prize of all - stabilising the national demographic profile and (hopefully) preventing ethnic conflict down the line.

After dinner you could get to work on a nuclear roll-out and locking up repeat offenders forever.

Do you think you could win a democratic mandate to do all that?

[Lewis]

I think somebody could.

[Lewis]

Couldn't you have expressed that all in 14 words?

'You know where Boydy comes from? We don't want to end up like that.'

[Lofty]

Why lock up repeat offenders forever when you can execute them, cheaper surely.

[Raoul Duke]

Send them to Rwanda

[Spikey M]

We don't address immigration because we need it, or in the near future the next crisis will be crippling levels of tax and pensioners that outweigh the working population.

So, either you cunts need to start having children, or our future workforce will need to be imported.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It should also be said that these trends are pan-European or in fact pan-Western. Everywhere has a labour shortage, everywhere has low childbirth, and so on.

[Spikey M]

Indeed, and as a silver lining, we are much less fucked - as always - than the Italians, atleast. And Korea is possibly more fucked than their northern cousins in the near future.

From what I can see, it's a perfect storm of Women chasing careers because they have been sold the dream of being boss-bitches, men that can't be bothered to play that game and people living longer finally coming back to bite us on the arse, as they hoard all the wealth, take up all the resources and provide no value to society, whatsoever.

The question is; what happens next? My bet is population-flight. As fast as immigrants want to come right now, eventually they, and our native children, will start looking for greener pastures. I'll meet you lads on "the line".

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've always thought a fun policy would be to raise retirement age to about 80. There are loads of jobs that people in their 70s can do, especially now there is WFH, why do we need to be paying them a pension? That sort of thing dates from the time when everyone died at 60 with no teeth.

[Yevrah]

The question is; what happens next? My bet is population-flight. As fast as immigrants want to come right now, eventually they, and our native children, will start looking for greener pastures. I'll meet you lads on "the line".

Greener pastures where though?

[Spikey M]

Greener pastures where though?

Who knows. As the west declines, somewhere else will ascend. China would have been the safe-bet a decade ago, but they aren't exactly thriving at the moment either.

I imagine countries will pivot, in response to their own need for working age people and it will be down to who can offer the most attractive offer, I guess. But who knows, really? Anything could happen over the next 10 - 20 years.

[randomlegend]

Getting rid of the tRiPle LoCk would be a start.

[Lofty]

Electoral suicide though, there are plenty of seemingly well off morons who are actually completely dependent on the state pension due to having never bothered sorting their own out.

[Spikey M]

It's only Elctoral Suicide because along side not having children, the under 40's also don't fucking vote.

[niko_cee]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67978736

At first I thought the 7/10 was a review of the first 100 days of the war.

[Luke Emia]

Electoral suicide though, there are plenty of seemingly well off morons who are actually completely dependent on the state pension due to having never bothered sorting their own out.

But this is where someone at some point has to do something which is for the good of the fucking country and this would be a good starting point.

As would making it law that every new-build house has to be built with solar panels and a ground source pump for heating. To save money for people now but also to make us less reliant on oil/gas in the future.

No chance of either of those things happening though because even though we would look back and say they were good things in 20/30 years time they will cause too much drama now.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Such politicians are very rare in a democracy, you need a stonking majority and a lot of self-belief to do it. God knows how they ever get anything done in proportional representation countries where you have to bring 5 coalition partners along for the ride.

[Luke Emia]

Such politicians are very rare in a democracy, you need a stonking majority and a lot of self-belief to do it. God knows how they ever get anything done in proportional representation countries where you have to bring 5 coalition partners along for the ride.

The Tories have had that though. They just pissed it up the wall for the last 4 years instead.

[Jimmy Floyd]

What did they have at its largest, 70? They used that to Get Brexit Done (which is probably an underrated achievement, tbh, because the people who decide on achievements all hate Brexit) and then it was whittled down, 50 or less and you need to bring factions of the party along with you.

Tony Blair 1997-2005 could do what he wanted with only a few left wing losers to rebel against him, which is how he was able to get quite a lot done. Thatcher I can't remember what sizes of majority she had, but it was big enough and she was a one-off anyway in terms of iron will.

[Yevrah]

Presumably the best thing to do for the country would be to go bd in nuclear power, but the country don't want that so we won't.

[randomlegend]

What did they have at its largest, 70? They used that to Get Brexit Done (which is probably an underrated achievement, tbh, because the people who decide on achievements all hate Brexit)

Probably on account of it having been demonstrably idiotic in the extreme.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Another failure of democracy, along with Lewis's inability to sell nationwide ethnic cleansing to the people. Let's make Richard Osman Dictator Emeritus and go from there. Kindness and accessible TV formats for all.

[randomlegend]

Democracy fails because there is no accountability for politicians lying through their teeth. People vote for stuff based on lies and the liars see no repercussions and keep on lying.

It becomes amazingly evident as soon as an issue you actually know about becomes news. Every politician who has been interviewed about the doctors strikes just lied with gay abandon; they are never brought up on it, they see no repercussions from it, and the average viewer watching has no way to know it's lies.

Was the same with Brexit. Every expert in their field saying "this is a bad idea because of X, Y, Z". Politicians just lie that the opposite is true. Brexit goes ahead. All experts vindicated as exactly what they said would happen, happens. Politicians who lied go off and get paid £10k a pop to do speaking.

[niko_cee]

Brexit was an ideological decision, not a practical one. Reducing it to the views of experts misses the point of it entirely. It was made at the wrong time, but you don't get to choose that sort of thing, as an electorate. You get one chance every generation, if you're lucky.

[randomlegend]

Brexit was something people voted for because they believed the lies they were told about what it would achieve. Some obviously voted for it because INGURLUND but the swing voters were just sold lies.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Maybe only experts should have the vote.

[Pepe]

Agreed.

What makes one an expert in the topic of Brexit, while we're at it?

[randomlegend]

Maybe only experts should have the vote.

Or maybe politicians shouldn't be allowed to blatantly lie.

[Pepe]

How would the process for punishing politicians for lying work?

[randomlegend]

Agreed.

What makes one an expert in the topic of Brexit, while we're at it?

Not what I said.

I said experts in their field commenting on how Brexit would impact their field of expertise. E.g. economists saying it would be disastrous for the economy. Business leaders saying it would be disastrous for business. Politicians lying and claiming it would all be positive.

What a surprise, the people who actually know about a certain field were right about how it would affect the field they know about.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Or maybe politicians shouldn't be allowed to blatantly lie.

And we're back to Richard Osman governing the country. 'Everyone should just be nicer'. Ever met humans? It's not going to happen.

[niko_cee]

The quest for objective truth continues.

[Pepe]

Economists have an excellent track record when it comes to correctly predicting outcomes, yes.

Can we also punish the experts when they are wrong (lie), or only politicians?

[randomlegend]

It's hilarious that "the people who govern us shouldn't be allowed to lie to us with impunity" is a controversial opinion.

People in other fields are subject to regulation and oversight which holds them to certain standards of integrity. E.g. if the BMA junior doctor committee went on TV and lied like politicians do, they would be punished by the GMC. The fact the same is not true of politicians - who should be held to higher standards of integrity than anyone - is laughable.

[niko_cee]

Isn't them all being voted out next time round sort of not 'impunity'? Assuming your beef is with the government.

Having some sort of arbiter of objective truth sounds a bit Orwellian or Kafkaesque.

[randomlegend]

Isn't them all being voted out next time round sort of not 'impunity'? Assuming your beef is with the government.

No, because most people don't know when they are being lied to on the majority of issues.

It's like saying I should be able to give out wilfully give out fake medical advice and my punishment will come when people decide to stop seeing me.

[niko_cee]

Give us the lie versus the objective truth.

If this ends up being like the unemployment statistics, or the bus money, or whatever else the government routinely 'lies' about then it'll be disappointing.

[Yevrah]

Remain lied as well, they just were nowhere near as good at it as leave due to the misguided belief that they were a shoe in to win.

I've been working under the assumption that the vast majority of remain voters blame racism and the LIES for the result as it's the best way they can cope with something they just can't fathom otherwise.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The ancient Egyptians believed that the world was created when the sun god Ra had a massive wank. Was this true? No, but they decided it was, so it was. There is no truth other than what groups of humans agree to be the truth. Thus begins politics.

[Pepe]

I agree with the maxim "politicians shouldn't lie." It is the "with impunity" part that I am curious about. Again, how would the punitive system for politicians who lie work?

At least I am glad to know that no doctor has ever lied in front of a TV camera. You lot truly are the beacon of light that this world needs.

Maybe doctors should run everything.

[randomlegend]

Give us the lie versus the objective truth.

If this ends up being like the unemployment statistics, or the bus money, or whatever else the government routinely 'lies' about then it'll be disappointing.

I don't keep a database, but recent examples from the Doctors stuff would be them saying (numerous times) that the consultants have accepted a pay offer (the vote hasn't even concluded yet) and that they have continued to increase real terms NHS funding every year (it is at best stagnant since 2021, if not falling).

[randomlegend]

I agree with the maxim "politicians shouldn't lie." It is the "with impunity" part that I am curious about. Again, how would the punitive system for politicians who lie work?

At least I am glad to know that no doctor has ever lied in front of a TV camera. You lot truly are the beacon of light that this world needs.

Maybe doctors should run everything.

I'm not talking about virtue. A doctor would get GMCed before they finished the sentence. A doctor was suspended for lying because they said in an email to a manager that they were "promised" a laptop and that was deemed dishonest because it was never a "promise".

What do you mean "how would it work"? You want me to explain the concept of regulation to you? You are in academia right? If you falsified some data to reach a conclusion you wanted in some research and got caught, how would that "work"?

[Yevrah]

And how old is the phrase "Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics"? This is hardly a new problem, which goes someway to explaining how hard it is to tackle. The best way to is just be better at what you're doing than the opposition. If Clinton was better (or better still Obama) then Trump doesn't win. If the remain argument was more convincing then leave doesn't win.

[niko_cee]

Does the real terms funding stuff come from some sort of inflation fudge? As, I assume, depending on how you treat inflation is going to have a significant distorting effect on figures during the course of this parliament.

The better funding lie is just bleating on ad infinitum about 'record levels of funding' as if growth and [controlled] inflation - ie the essence of western economics - doesn't necessitate that as a bare minimum.

Lies, damn lies and statistics.

[Luke Emia]

Presumably the best thing to do for the country would be to go bd in nuclear power, but the country don't want that so we won't.

It shouldn't be about what the nimby's want. It should be about what is best for the country. I always use where I live as a good example a nuclear power plant would actually be a massive benefit for the area. Lots of well paid and skilled jobs as opposed to somewhere at the minute which is on it's arse. But, no one would ever want it because they would be too worried about some kind of meltdown destroying the town.

[randomlegend]

Does the real terms funding stuff come from some sort of inflation fudge? As, I assume, depending on how you treat inflation is going to have a significant distorting effect on figures during the course of this parliament.

The better funding lie is just bleating on ad infinitum about 'record levels of funding' as if growth and [controlled] inflation - ie the essence of western economics - doesn't necessitate that as a bare minimum.

Lies, damn lies and statistics.

Even with generous measures of inflation it's static.

[Luke Emia]

Remain lied as well, they just were nowhere near as good at it as leave due to the misguided belief that they were a shoe in to win.

I've been working under the assumption that the vast majority of remain voters blame racism and the LIES for the result as it's the best way they can cope with something they just can't fathom otherwise.

But, again you live in Oxford so you don't have the same level of insight into what it is actually like in the parts of the country which get 'forgotten about' me and RL live reasonably close to each other and for example over the past 25 years there has been a massive influx of Eastern Europeans to all the small market towns round here. Lot's of people blame them for the way this area has been allowed to decay over this timescale and I can guarantee those same people would be thinking that by voting for Brexit those people would stop coming(they have, to be replaced now by a new bogeyman trying to enter the country instead) and would be British stuff for British people. That's what people were lied to about.

[niko_cee]

Maybe we need a maximum voting age as well as a minimum one?

[Ben]

We need a maximum driving age, that's for sure. The fossils have always been shit drivers but the Bovid era has really stepped up their incompetence.

[Manc]

A few people on here need to switch off the TV and have a lie down.

[Pepe]

You are in academia right? If you falsified some data to reach a conclusion you wanted in some research and got caught, how would that "work"?

It doesn't. Academia is rife with fabrication and data falsification, and hardly anyone cares. So much for trusting the experts.

[Pepe]

Which reminds me: Lol at the former Harvard president.

[Lofty]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67961089

[Yevrah]

I don't even

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Has he been reading Barton's tweets?

[Baz]

The videos probably on Documenting Reality.

[Ben]

1747307714764579031

Surprised it was that high tbh.

[phonics]

That's about 3 thousand more people than watched the Queens Funeral on Sky Sports News.

[Jimmy Floyd]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-68007571

One for nightmare fuel junkies. Also a terrific bit of council speak here:


The family was known to children's services and Lincolnshire County Council confirmed it had launched a review into the case.

Its executive director of children services, Heather Sandy, described the deaths as "devastating" and "tragic".

"Kenneth has passed away at his home," she told BBC Radio 4's World at One.

"He was at home on his own with Bronson and that meant that there was nobody left to give Bronson care, and sadly as a result of that, Bronson has also passed away."

Reads like a bit of anodyne punditry on Fulham v Watford.

[Spikey M]

Jesus. That's brutal.

[Lofty]

Am I reading this right that basically the social workers kept alerting the police and had to get the landlady to sort it?

[niko_cee]

How does a 60 year old man have a toddler child and did the mother fall in a river or something? By something, of course, I mean the balloon.

[Lofty]

The mum has been in the media blaming social services apparently.

He must have been a top shagger, explains the heart attack. My dad sired my half brother when he was 56 :moop:

[SvN]

Fuck me, I wish I could go back in time and not click that link.

[Yevrah]

Fuck me, I wish I could go back in time and not click that link.

100%. His little face in the picture.

[Jimmy Floyd]

My first thought (a self-indulgent one but it's pertinent I think) was that I wish that the SIX coppers who broke my door down within about 2 hours that time could have found the wherewithal to break that door in Skegness down instead.

[Kikó]

Fuck me, I wish I could go back in time and not click that link.

Yep, I'm gutted.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

The mum has been in the media blaming social services apparently.

He must have been a top shagger, explains the heart attack. My dad sired my half brother when he was 56 :moop:

My Dad had his youngest (of 7) when he was 64.

His final wife was younger than his two oldest kids.

[Ben]

That's heartbreaking.

The story, not Mahow's dad.

[Baz]

You lot should try swapping your empathy for apathy.

[Spikey M]

Is that official Mental Health First-aid?

[Spikey M]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-68025677

:D

[niko_cee]

Sounds like the chatbot was bang on.

[Spikey M]

Don't unpack, Kiko lad.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68029232

[Kikó]

I'm actually quoted in the article.

[Giggles]

Europe is slowly waking up :drool:

[Spikey M]

I'd never vote for them, but if you believe in democracy then "the far right" and "the far left" have every right to exist and to be represented. Even if they do want to send Kiko to Northern Africa.

It's not democracy if you just have a load of centrists to choose from.

[Kikó]

They don't have a load of centrists.

[Spikey M]

They might not, I have no knowledge of German politics. We do though. At the next election our choice will be Tory (fractionally right of centre) or Labour (increasingly less left of centre) or Lib Dem (couldn't be more in the centre). All "extremes" have either been criminalised or had their media coverage removed.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Europe gave extremism a decent crack in the 20th century. Mixed results, perhaps. Tens of millions of deaths, but in return we got Le Carre and I quite like the Volkswagen logo.

Let's put it this way, you can understand German anxiety about a right wing party having secret meetings about mass deportation of ethnic groups it doesn't like.

[Shindig]

Yep. It has a very specific history it would like to avoid repeating.

[Spikey M]

Granted, but democracy is democracy. If there's a problem with immigration, you need a party that wants to deal with it. If such parties are illegal, you don't have a democracy.

[Shindig]

What's democratic about kicking out actual citizens?

[Spikey M]

What's democratic about kicking out actual citizens?

Ask my girl Shamima. ��

But yeah, nothing. Which is why they won't get elected. It does, however, motivate the popular parties to take up more moderate positions on immigration etc.

It's a balancing act. You need the extremes to be represented in both directions or you end up with a broken system. You can't just pretend skin heads and communists don't exist. They don't take kindly to being ignored.

[Yevrah]

I’d normally be against banning this sort of thing but in Germany’s case I’ll make an exception. Still, if this party is actually popular enough to win and they’re banned won’t that lead to serious civil unrest?

[Spikey M]

I’d normally be against banning this sort of thing but in Germany’s case I’ll make an exception. Still, if this party is actually popular enough to win and they’re banned won’t that lead to serious civil unrest?

Exactly that. People won't just say "oh, I won't be racist anymore then". They'll just go somewhere else. Maybe a Beer hall.

You have to listen to these people, unsavoury as they may be.

[Yevrah]

Oh and it might just be the perception I have from the BBC overstating the problem, but if they’re not and Europe really is being swept by the far right then sadly Lewis was right, wasn’t he? It just hasn’t reached here yet.

[Yevrah]

Exactly that. People won't just say "oh, I won't be racist anymore then". They'll just go somewhere else. Maybe a Beer hall.

You have to listen to these people, unsavoury as they may be.

I think another thing we need to ask seriously is are they actually racist or are they reacting to a genuine problem? Sweeping it under the carpet as racism is convenient and all, but are Swedish people, for example, suddenly racist en masse?

[Kikó]

Oh and it might just be the perception I have from the BBC overstating the problem, but if they’re not and Europe really is being swept by the far right then sadly Lewis was right, wasn’t he? It just hasn’t reached here yet.

Yeah the far right hasn't reached the UK yet :harold:

[Spikey M]

Oh and it might just be the perception I have from the BBC overstating the problem, but if they’re not and Europe really is being swept by the far right then sadly Lewis was right, wasn’t he? It just hasn’t reached here yet.

I am ON THE RECORD for being broadly in support of immigration, but the truth is largely as Jimmy had it the other day. We don't address the cons. Only the pro's.

There are problems with immigration. Mainly the lack of integration and it is going to piss an element of society off. I think it's already here. The stuff at the Cenotaph was a glimpse of it. But, they don't have a BNP or National Front, so I do wonder how it will play out.

I think we're probably too British for anything much to happen, mind. Just old men grumbling over Sheperd's pies at the pub.

[Kikó]

The AFD are literal Nazis.

The general issue is people feeling poorer and some going to the extreme right.

[Shindig]

I think another thing we need to ask seriously is are they actually racist or are they reacting to a genuine problem? Sweeping it under the carpet as racism is convenient and all, but are Swedish people, for example, suddenly racist en masse?


Discussion allegedly focused on so-called "remigration" - the removal of millions of asylum seekers, "non-assimilated" people and those with "non-German" backgrounds, even if they hold residency rights and citizenship.

That should tell you everything you need to know, really. It's not just the ones there illegally they want to deport. It's a pretty wide remit.

[Yevrah]

Yeah the far right hasn't reached the UK yet :harold:

Such a moronic response and symptomatic of the left’s idiotic way of dealing with this problem.

How many politicians from far right parties do we have elected or about to be elected?

[Spikey M]

The AFD are literal Nazis.

The general issue is people feeling poorer and some going to the extreme right.

Possibly. But I doubt all of their supporters are Nazi's. Most of them will just feel unrepresented elsewhere.

[Yevrah]

The general issue is people feeling poorer and some going to the extreme right.

You keep telling yourself that while your town’s burning.

[Giggles]

The new policy across Europe seems to be to ignore every concern people have and just scream far right at them.

[Kikó]

Yeah calling a Nazi party far right is being a lefty.

[Yevrah]

And I’ll fish the thread out when I’m off my phone but would those German Women who were goosed en masse at a Christmas market and then told about how they should behave to avoid it happening be covered by the “being a bit poorer” reasoning if they’re voting for whoever these nutters are?

[Kikó]

Possibly. But I doubt all of their supporters are Nazi's. Most of them will just feel unrepresented elsewhere.

No that's correct. But the party is for sure.

[Yevrah]

Yeah calling a Nazi party far right is being a lefty.

Good that you answered my question. How many?

Edit: And you know that’s not what I was referring to.

[Kikó]

And I’ll fish the thread out when I’m off my phone but would those German Women who were goosed en masse at a Christmas market and then told about how they should behave to avoid it happening be covered by the “being a bit poorer” reasoning if they’re voting for whoever these nutters are?

Is your argument there are some Nazis who support the AFD? I'm sure there is.

But yes, people have gone to the extremes (die linke has gained some votes as well) as they've become poorer.

[Yevrah]

We’re dealing with millions upon millions of voters across Europe, right? Covering all demographics? “A bit poorer” sounds incredibly simplistic when faced with those demographics.

[Spikey M]

I heard on the radio the other day that 70% of countries around the world have elections this year. Things could get very interesting in some of them.

Not here, obviously, we're getting Sir Beer Korma.

[Kikó]

We’re dealing with millions upon millions of voters across Europe, right? Covering all demographics? “A bit poorer” sounds incredibly simplistic when faced with those demographics.

I'm talking about Germany specifically but yeah, of course it's simplistic. People generally want to change things if they feel poorer in the pocket.

[Yevrah]

I'm talking about Germany specifically but yeah, of course it's simplistic. People generally want to change things if they feel poorer in the pocket.

And in wanting a change they jump straight for their nearest far right party, avoiding all of the other parties that would be a change but aren’t far right? Hmmmm.

[Giggles]

Yeah calling a Nazi party far right is being a lefty.

Blankety calling them a 'nazi party' is just proving me 100% correct.

[Lofty]

I heard on the radio the other day that 70% of countries around the world have elections this year. Things could get very interesting in some of them.

Not here, obviously, we're getting Sir Beer Korma.

The SNP seem to be expecting an arse raping at the polls given how enthusiatically they are deepthroating him in the news this week.

[Spikey M]

Bar him saying or doing something unbelievably stupid, I think he's nailed on. The SNP, just as with the Tories, have been responsible for too much scandal recently.

It's just a shame he's going to be such an underwhelming PM.

[Ben]

Underwhelming is a massive upgrade on the recent shower. Of course we shouldn’t settle for that but everything might seem a little bit less shit.

[Yevrah]

He should be riding in on a Blair style 97 wave of euphoria at finally being rid of the Tories, but it just doesn’t feel like that. I’m not sure why.

[Spikey M]

I think it's because he knows his sure route to power relies on him being the sensible and safe option. If he takes a strong position on anything it could blow up in their faces.

Maybe when he's actually elected he'll start presenting as an actual person with views and and stances on things rather than just sitting on the fence all the time.

[niko_cee]

He won't.

[Pepe]

Trump is trying to dismantle democracy!

Germany is trying to ban the second most popular political party.

That's different! They are FAR RIGHT!

[Yevrah]

Trump is trying to dismantle democracy!

Germany is trying to ban the second most popular political party.

That's different! They are FAR RIGHT!

Game, set and match with that really. The funniest thing is they can't even see they're doing it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Resisting the far right and left is one of our great strengths. Obviously FPTP plays a large part but also I think there's a cultural thing whereby we find such people risible rather than to be taken seriously. Can't explain why off the top of my head.

If we are ever stupid enough to bring in proportional representation it will no doubt open the floodgates.

[Lewis]

In a British context, every government since Margaret Thatcher has been elected on manifesto pledges to reduce the overall number of people admitted to the country, and every government since Margaret Thatcher has deliberately done the exact opposite. Still, better that than any anti-democratic forces gaining influence.

[Kikó]

Trump is trying to dismantle democracy!

Germany is trying to ban the second most popular political party.

That's different! They are FAR RIGHT!

Oh I remember those words that I've said. It was even quoted.

[Lewis]

Resisting the far right and left is one of our great strengths. Obviously FPTP plays a large part but also I think there's a cultural thing whereby we find such people risible rather than to be taken seriously. Can't explain why off the top of my head.

If we are ever stupid enough to bring in proportional representation it will no doubt open the floodgates.

Who is 'we' in this complacent overview of British political culture? Asking for that teacher still hiding from Islamists.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Who is 'we' in this complacent overview of British political culture? Asking for that teacher still hiding from Islamists.

Like I said, I can't explain why we are the only European country who have never been ruled by fascists or communists or any kind of religious nutjobs. As far as I know the last serious internal threat to our parliamentary democracy was in 1745. I'm sure there are good historical and no doubt geographical reasons why this is the case whereas France has managed three monarchies and five republics in that time, and Germany, yeah.

You seem to think I'm some kind of simpering centrist dad. Couldn't be further from the truth. I am a patriot, of the genuine kind rather than the Rees-Mogg what's-in-it-for-me sort. Every polity needs balance and ours is no different. We have a brilliantly balanced political system which, unlike the European multi-chaos systems, has two or maximum three centres of gravity, but, unlike the American us-and-them system, has 650 local constituencies of sufficient variety that the ruling parties must by existential necessity become broad churches. When Labour turn to ridiculous long-Cold-War Corbynism they are electorally embarrassed and the same is about to happen to the Conservatives, who have simmered themselves down into a set of venal oligarch-subservient lickspittles, the claret-drinking equivalent of straight treachery. Our system protects against either of these tendencies, or any of the other possible retreats into bedroom conspiracy theory, from becoming mainstream, unless or until there are huge pulsating bubbles of support for them throughout the country, which, also thanks to our system and to the nature of modern life, will never happen.

Islamism is not a threat. They are pests, sometimes violent pests, but they do not threaten our way of life. They are only interested in themselves. I had a big laugh at all those calls for a 'Muslim party' a few weeks back when blood was at its hottest after the Hamas attacks and the repercussions. No chance that will ever happen, and if it does it will fail hard. Our own failing in this regard (as the white establishment) is to be far too tolerant of the more brutal aspects of Muslim culture when practised over here. This is where the centrist dads come in, because they are the ones shilling for multiculturalism.

The biggest internal threat to us this century is probably the threat of becoming a puppet state of Hindu-nationalist India, which is a fairly grim fate but not inevitable if we maintain the robustness of our democracy and keep funnelling the right people into the elite. This means keeping out the fringe wankers and the minor public school traitors. There are many ways we can do this a lot better. We have a lot of useful tools at our disposal. One of them is to properly democratise Oxbridge, properly widen access (I would pay for them to send scouts out into the field to recruit the best teens to it, like it's Man City) and rid it of every treacherous posh cunt and simp leftist while maintaining its status as a factory to churn out the elite. Another is to build three million houses (we've been over that).

I can't bear the momentum of these morons who want us to move into this new world where the democracy is 20% goose stepping, 20% bearskin hats, 20% jolly good old chap and 20% technocrats, with the last 20% being up for grabs. All it will result in is permanent shouty instability, rather than the temporary kind we are currently experiencing.

[Kikó]

If 20% want to goose step then you give people a good reason not to vote for them? I'm not sure disenfranchising a vast amount of the population is the sign of a healthy democratic system.

[Jimmy Floyd]

To be clear, I'm not talking about banning them. I'm talking about having a system (like ours) which stops them from being able to get to 20% in the first place. The English AFD, let's call them UKIP, would be frustrated or have to funnel their ideas into other parties. This would only change when demand for their ideas became overwhelming, as happened with, say, Labour when the franchise widened 120 years ago. This is a good thing because it is like an evolutionary system for ideas, shit ones that don't wash will die or carp audibly but ineffectually from the back benches.

[phonics]

I mean they did and we left the EU and it’s been a disaster.

[Lofty]

Racists didn't get Brexit through, thickos did. It was basically Bojo singing Homer Simpson's 'Garbageman Can' song from his bus and a lot of people bought it without understanding what they were voting for. I voted remain, I did think there were interesting arguments for leave but anyone who genuinely thought there was enough talent in parliament (of any party) to navigate through leaving is deluded.

[Lewis]

To be clear, I'm not talking about banning them. I'm talking about having a system (like ours) which stops them from being able to get to 20% in the first place. The English AFD, let's call them UKIP, would be frustrated or have to funnel their ideas into other parties. This would only change when demand for their ideas became overwhelming, as happened with, say, Labour when the franchise widened 120 years ago. This is a good thing because it is like an evolutionary system for ideas, shit ones that don't wash will die or carp audibly but ineffectually from the back benches.

This supposedly wonderful system of ours works in a high-trust society with a stable and homogenous population whose main political parties (and critical non-governmental organisations) represent the views and wishes of the majority of their voters. Is this still the case, and, if it just about still is (it isn't), will it still be the case in twenty years? Then what?

[Jimmy Floyd]

The reason immigrants come here - though varied - all ultimately boil down to the fact that we are a better country than where they came from, with better people, better institutions, better social security and better economic opportunities. The only way to stop them is to remove some or all of those things, which, evidently, we do not want to do.

This century is going to be about south to north migration. Short of turning us into North Korea and placing hundreds of snipers along the south coast, we can't change that. What we can do is be a lot more assertive than we have been in setting the terms by which life happens once you're here and forcing people to adapt to that. What will undermine what we have is allowing the far right or far left, or the public school traitors I referred to earlier, to sell it to foreign interests. That is why keeping the AFD equivalents out of power is important.

Incidentally I think AFD will blitz the polls in the next five or so years.

[Lewis]

We can't stop mass migration, but what we can do is tell them all to behave a certain way, which we haven't done during the periods where we have constituted the overwhelming majority, turning a blind eye to all sorts of scummery in the name of 'community cohesion'; but we will somehow manage to do so when we aren't the overwhelming majority, and they will all listen to us. How does that change in circumstances come about exactly? What if people don't want to align to our values? How do we 'force' them to? We can't stop them coming here, so what do we do? Also, how do the better people, institutions, social security, and economic opportunities survive during the interim period before our better values re-assert themselves?

This is what I was saying the other day about burying passivity in shite and wishful thinking for who knows why. My preferred course[s] of action might be 'extreme' and heavily discriminatory, but they are at least tangible things that could - stakeholder uproar aside - be implemented. You seem to think that that bit of the Communist Manifesto that relies on spontaneous class consciousness could work but for Africans suddenly stopping shouting into their phones.

[Pepe]

How does the US get people to assimilate without even trying?

[Spikey M]

How does the US get people to assimilate without even trying?

America is constantly on the brink of race riots. I'm not sure that's assimilation. Or, atleast, I'm not sure it's the assimilated society we're shooting for.

[Jimmy Floyd]

America (still) has a much greater sense of purpose than we do. If you asked our elites why Britain exists today and truth-drugged them, they'd say it's to sell our soft power to foreign despots and gangsters.

[Spikey M]

Our "Elites" are either interested in further feathering their own nests, or being "woke" throbbers that spend their time flagellating both themselves and the nation for whatever the fashionable topic of the day is.

[phonics]

98% of them assimilate fine it's just Lewis is basically Enoch Powell these days so anyone in a headscarf or with a West Indian accent is the cause of every problem in the country.

[Pepe]

America is constantly on the brink of race riots. I'm not sure that's assimilation. Or, atleast, I'm not sure it's the assimilated society we're shooting for.

Those come from full-on Americans though. Immigrants get on with things just fine.

[Kikó]

Shows you the lack of respect in American society that they don't.

[phonics]

Those come from full-on Americans though. Immigrants get on with things just fine.
As ever it's exactly the same here as it is there. The ones that hate immigrants the most are from the places that don't have immigrants.

[niko_cee]

I rather enjoyed the Newsnight/BBC Correspondent report about the Emirati funded mercenary death squads operating in Yemen last night. Someone should ask Pep about them in his next press conference.

The interview with the Yemeni government guy was borderline Ali G tier.

[Baz]

This measles stuff seems bad, you know.

[Kikó]

Vaccines are a psyop. Natural immunity is better.

[niko_cee]

Maybe the talking heads should stop making excuses for the people with 'busy lives' and 'cultural difficulties' who aren't taking up the vaccine.

[Spikey M]

I was reading the BBC article on this the other day and they were mulling over why London, Leicester and Birmingham were hotspots, as if the answer wasn't already known. it was deep into Bill Burr territory.


https://youtu.be/lMmmdSy737o?si=eEHqY7AR2S32aFu7

[Yevrah]

It was even worse than that with Covid though wasn't it, as didn't we not only ignore the bleeding obvious but a narrative also developed where the reason for minorities not having a vaccine was down to their distrust of the white Man due to all of his atrocities?

[Don]

Aren't you working class gammons just as likely to be anti-vax conspiracy theorists as the muzzies who don't want to be jabbed with bacon fat? Show some data to justify your racism, please.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I saw a graph the other day which showed black Caribbean as the lowest, will have to delve into the depths of twitter to refind it.

[Spikey M]

https://i.ibb.co/BLn5GDs/The-White-British-ethnic-group-had-the-highest-fourth-vaccination-coverage-among-eligible-individual.png

[Jimmy Floyd]

Here we are. The y axis (1.0) is the White British level for MMR vaccine. So Asian groups are more or less the same as white, but black groups are miles behind.

https://www.thelancet.com/cms/attachment/6dbe639d-36bf-4dce-ae4b-2d48844e2b17/gr6.jpg

[Spikey M]

More like the Shepherds pYe axis amirite?

[Don]

Spikey, your curry takeaway give you the shits this morning? I suspect the article that specifically mentions "London, Leicester and Birmingham" was a thing of your imagination and then you use NOVID rates to back up the measles points?

[Spikey M]

Vaccine uptake is vaccine uptake.

[Yevrah]

Nice to see a dose of Ronnie Real in this article from Mickey, as opposed to the "my disability is my superpower" nonsense.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/disability-68076555

[Spikey M]

He's just sad it may call his back garden penalty record into question.

[Yevrah]

:D

"Michael, he's blind"

[Kikó]

Why's he with Andrei Shevchenko?

[Spikey M]

I've just been reading more about the measles stuff, and alot of it does come down to the MMR Autism claim too. I wonder how many deaths Dr Wakefield is responsible for since he made that claim. It has carried over to reduced uptake across various other vaccines.

And as much as it being blamed on white people feels like an overstep, you have to imagine that minorities are going to believe claims like that far more easily because they have been the victims of medical fuckery like the Tuskegee experiment in the past.

How do you get around this? Because it would be nice if the likes of Measles and TB stayed problems of the past.

[Lofty]

The best bit is Wakefield claimed 'telling the truth' ruined his life whilst pumping Elle Macpherson every night.

[Spikey M]

What happened to that evil bastard that was selling battery acid as an HIV treatment?

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've mentioned this before surely but I went to school with Dr Wakefield's son, who was quite a nice guy, and I just felt sorry for him by the end. I think they all fled to America at a certain point.

No one ever brought up the elephant in the room. Not once, that I can remember. Just pretended it wasn't there.

[Lofty]

Living the step mum porno dream stateside :drool:

[randomlegend]

Anti-vax parents are one of the worst parts of my job.

[Luke Emia]

Eastern Europeans love a bit of not taking up vaccine’s if round here is anything to judge by.

[wullie]

The parents who didn't believe their kids need vaccines appear to have changed tune quite dramatically now our daughter's school messaged to say any kids who haven't had the full MMR course have to stay home for 21 days.

[niko_cee]

:drool:

I always wonder why people don't bother with the chickenpox vaccine. Yeah, you have to pay for it, but if your kid gets it you are looking at a reasonably significant amount of time off work, and if you have more than one kid goodnight Vienna.

[Boydy]

I should probably get that. I somehow never got chickenpox as a kid. Don't really want it as an adult.

[randomlegend]

:drool:

I always wonder why people don't bother with the chickenpox vaccine. Yeah, you have to pay for it, but if your kid gets it you are looking at a reasonably significant amount of time off work, and if you have more than one kid goodnight Vienna.

Was recommended by the JVCI recently so it's likely it'll get added to the vaccine schedule at some point.

[neo_hippy]

Chickenpox wasn't that bad for my 2 kids

Hand foot and mouth though, horrendous! Someone needs to make a vaccine for that next

[Spikey M]

Mine sailed through both to be fair. They had less than 10 pox each and just had a bit of a cold. Hand foot and mouth was similar, but with the added drama of my son freaking out when his skin started peeling. And then again a month later when he shed 2 finger nails.

Thus far we have been pretty lucky with all the childhood bugs.

Probably jinxed it now.

[niko_cee]

Yeah, but aren't you meant to keep kids off school for quite a long time when they get the pox? Only one of mine had it and, having had the jabs, it was barely noticeable.

[Spikey M]

Until they have all scabbed over. They were off for the week.

This is just good luck on our part though. A few kids in the year did get really poorly with it. It can be a bitch.

[mo]

Nice to see a dose of Ronnie Real in this article from Mickey, as opposed to the "my disability is my superpower" nonsense.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/disability-68076555

His kid looks like a really shit waxwork of him.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm kind of here for Michael Owen's whole vibe. He's boring, deeply boring, and there's a nobility to that. Not everyone has to be Kurt Vonnegut.

[Shindig]

But he's also really, really pleased with himself. A truly satisfied man.

[thommo]

:drool:

I always wonder why people don't bother with the chickenpox vaccine. Yeah, you have to pay for it, but if your kid gets it you are looking at a reasonably significant amount of time off work, and if you have more than one kid goodnight Vienna.

Funny this is brought up - both of mine have just had chickenpox. No real pain and/or itching thankfully, it's just been an absolute ballache working from home with a 2 year old who can't understand why I am unable to play whatsoever.

I never had chickenpox as a child either...

[Manc]

UAE looking to buy out The Telegraph. Surely not.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There are chinless public school types wandering every corridor in London trying to sell national assets to the Emiratis, the Saudis, Russians, Malaysians, whoever is the keenest to launder their dosh. Telegraph of course a vigorous promoter of the chinless, especially in the last five or ten years. Comes home to roost in the end.

[Lewis]

The Telegraph is shit. There are two decent columnists, then it's all mental illness-tier warmongering, stuff about Range Rovers, and where to eat in Azerbaijan.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Their recent war stuff has been mental, leading me to think - when war comes, and Simon Heffer bravely leads us all into battle atop his citizen's steed, where are all the bomb shelters going to be? We have no basements in this country.

[Shindig]

This Alabama execution story has me asking a very mild question: If the lethal drugs are so hard to find, why don't they just shoot them? Why is gassing someone to sleep or injecting them with harmful chemicals considered more humane?

[Raoul Duke]

Isn't the way it's done that they have 3 people push a button at the same time so they don't know which is 100% responsible? Either way, you could rig that up to an AR-15 and cap a fool, I guess.

America is weird is probably a strong enough explanation

[Don]

ICJ ruling has brightened up a disgusting day.

[Shindig]

Women waste food in protest about sustainable food. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68121654)

The art of protest lives on.

[phonics]

Nothing more revolutionary than throwing stuff at the "most behind glass painting ever".

Head down the hallway and you could really fuck up a Carvaggio or a collection of the shittiest Picassos.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Brb off to lob some rhubarb at the Arc de Triomphe.

[phonics]

Brb off to lob some rhubarb at the Arc de Triomphe.

The irnoy being that it'd be difficult to get within throwing distance due to all the traffic around it.

[Manc]

Here we go (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/28/us-service-members-killed-drone-attack-jordan).

[niko_cee]

Intern Taz.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The only question is how many of his properties we need to bug.

[Lofty]

It does feel a bit 'snippets of military indicents in the background of day to day life' like Threads right now. I'll be calling them all bastards and trying to remember pie shops this time next year.

[Don]

Absolutely love to see it. Any and every muzzy attack on these genocidal forces also keeps having our name on it in the media as if the single reason behind it all is...THE RADICAL TERRORIST NATION OF IRAN.

[John Arne]

A court has ordered Evergrande to liquidate.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/29/asia-markets.html

Massive.

[Ben]

Definitely feels like the Chinese economy is about to take a big downturn. There's a billion people in China and Evergrande have enough vacant properties to house them all.

I'm not sure if this means the invasion of Taiwan is more likely (war economy, distraction etc.) or they get more cosy to the West because we will prop them up buying all their Temu shit.

[niko_cee]

Tianamen Square 2 internal collapse?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Think they're too far gone for that, much like the Russians. Probably more chance of a palace coup, though.

[Spikey M]

Definitely feels like the Chinese economy is about to take a big downturn. There's a billion people in China and Evergrande have enough vacant properties to house them all.

I'm not sure if this means the invasion of Taiwan is more likely (war economy, distraction etc.) or they get more cosy to the West because we will prop them up buying all their Temu shit.

China and America are so economically reliant on each other, that you have to imagine this won't be the only such bankruptcy. Who knows where we go if there's another global financial crisis.

You'd hope the answers would be found around a table though. Unless the goal is to reverse globalised economies, which seems unlikely. The rich won't like that.

[Ben]

An incredible Ponzi scheme. In reality they needed this collapse, in order for their domestic economy to sort itself out. If they can ride any civil unrest and the short term economic pain then the CCP rolls on, although they might have to cash in a lot of the foreign debt they own.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The more significant thing from our point of view is a lot of their soft influence / foreign investment in Africa and other places is in the process of vanishing.

[niko_cee]

Is there anywhere in the world where farmers aren't continually moaning?

Sounds like the European tractor spares market might be heating up in then next few days.

[Ben]

French farmers are pure entertainment.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I need farmers poor so they aren't tempted to buy the latest machinery. Manu, Manu, seven more years.

[Ben]

US weapons sales abroad hit record high in 2023 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68136840)

:baz:

[Jimmy Floyd]

As if Donny T is going to turn down all that lovely money.

Meanwhile in London, we're still fighting the Wars of the Roses: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68137926

[Spikey M]

Elon is going to go full Super-Villain at some point, isn't he?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-68137046

[Spikey M]

1752123455125016839?t=M-ofv11dwIefHmki_exQHw&s=19

:D

[niko_cee]

Very Half Life.

[Pepe]

Watch it mean not at all what he wants it to sound like it means.

[Lewis]

This Clapham attack story is just about the most perfect country is finished story imaginable. All that it needs now is a soft sentence that he doesn't serve in full, another failure/refusal to deport him, and the rest of his life in a council house in Central London.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Behind every one of him there are ten extreme left activists/lawyers lobbying for him not to be deported at every stage. People like Michael Mansfield should be locked up for treason.

[Shindig]

I enjoy the irony in him burning his own face.

[Yevrah]

Convicted of a sex offence in 2018 and was still granted asylum. Are we actively trying to usher the far right in?

[Lofty]

Apparently some priest got involved and converted him to Christianity then wrote a letter supporting his claim saying he was a reformed character.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Deport the priest.

[Spikey M]

An "Alkaline Attack" is a new one.

[niko_cee]

Isn't it going to be some sort of, presumably industrial strength, bleach or something?

[Yevrah]

Apparently some priest got involved and converted him to Christianity then wrote a letter supporting his claim saying he was a reformed character.

Asking a 2nd person who actively wants to believe people believe if a 3rd person does indeed believe. Top work that.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's the trick they all use, claim to have converted to some other religion, to be gay or a woman or something so that you can then say that the origin country will execute you and claim asylum / avoid deportation. The British lawyers facilitating this should all be hanged.

[Pepe]

Convicted of a sex offence in 2018 and was still granted asylum.

That's mental.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Presumably being a sex offender also gets your head lopped off in country of origin, so touching kids / rape is probably a good way of staying in the UK if you're from certain dungheaps.

This is probably what certain Tories, rightly or wrongly, get jip for when they try to get us out of various human rights charters.

[Shindig]

The sex offence in question seems up for debate. It’s somewhere between flashing his bollocks or actual assault.

[Yevrah]

Presumably being a sex offender also gets your head lopped off in country of origin, so touching kids / rape is probably a good way of staying in the UK if you're from certain dungheaps.

This is probably what certain Tories, rightly or wrongly, get jip for when they try to get us out of various human rights charters.

I bet there are people who still think he should have been given asylum, which essentially means we're endorsing saving someone from persecution in one country only for them to come here, enjoy a safe haven and persecute others themselves.

It's madness. It needs to stop and if we don't stop it ultimately the people will by eventually voting in some right wing nutter. I know our electoral system somewhat safeguards against that, but there's a limit to even how much that can stop a tide of public sentiment that has been whipped up into a frenzy with actual examples like this.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There are some people (e.g. https://righttoremain.org.uk/about/) who believe that there shouldn't be any barriers to migration and are heavily funded to activate this vision. But yes, they are very much the ones doing the most to usher in far right power. They probably want it, too, as they view their lives on some weird oppressor/oppressed axis with virtue deriving from being oppressed, so the stronger and nastier their opponent is, the happier they probably feel.

[randomlegend]

Isn't it going to be some sort of, presumably industrial strength, bleach or something?

Probably drain unblocker.

[Lofty]

20 and 22 years minimum for Brianna Ghey's murderers, probably the best that could be hoped for given their age and the restrictions that come with it. Mental hearing the judge have to quote the stuff about 'want to see how big it's dick is' during the sentencing.

[Yevrah]

There are some people (e.g. https://righttoremain.org.uk/about/) who believe that there shouldn't be any barriers to migration and are heavily funded to activate this vision. But yes, they are very much the ones doing the most to usher in far right power. They probably want it, too, as they view their lives on some weird oppressor/oppressed axis with virtue deriving from being oppressed, so the stronger and nastier their opponent is, the happier they probably feel.

The left really need to start thinking things through. It dawned on me the other day that if that nonsense proportional representation referendum had got through we could have had 60+ UKIP MP's sitting in the House of Commons, having the potential to decide major votes and generally not having a clue what they as an MP should be doing.

[Lewis]

It's at the point - like when 'Euroscepticism' could only mean actually wanting to leave the European Union rather than simply pretending to like William Hague, David Cameron et al - that if you don't want to amend/repeal the laws that keep people like that in the country then you support keeping them here, and therefore you privilege their safety over anybody else who happens to be here. Why you would want to do that I don't know. There is a certain person that, as well as not believing in borders, is essentially pro-crime (especially when non-white people are doing it), but I'm not sure it would have a particularly large constituency if people were actually given the choice.

[Lewis]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-68138780

This is bizarre to me. I have two jobs, but I have enough to live on shrug. Well you don't do you mate? Hence the second job. Also the last line. Was that his only option?

[Spikey M]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/wales/68183503

I mean, I get it with Boxing or Football, but I think you're pushing your luck here, love.

[Ben]

She’s not wrong. I played pool for years and even the best women are shit.

[Spikey M]

Granted, but where's the gender based advantage? A more powerful break is about as far as I can get.

[Ben]

It’s a fair point and one I can’t counter. But the evidence is there. The gap is even more apparent with snooker, no woman has ever made a 147.

[Spikey M]

This has to be one of the rare occasions where "lack of opportunity" is the actual answer, I think. Men frequently spend hours chatting shit in pubs and pool/snooker clubs while knocking balls around. Women just don't. And that's on them, really. I can't see any obvious gendered reason why they couldn't compete against a man.

[Lewis]

There are mental differences that might be applicable to snooker - shape rotation, etc. - but following that would open a massive can of piss, so people will just stick to physical issues.

[Yevrah]

I think the key thing will be there's little infrastructure for the female game, from picking it up as a youngster to even turning pro, so there's no depth in the game with which competition pushes the standard up. It's a bit like (but with obviously much worse outcomes in terms of quality) as we see with the Chinese game. Clearly there are more people picking the game up over there than here but the only thing they've truly excelled at so far is match fixing.

The point in question raises an interesting dilemma in that there should be no physical advantage from which Men gain an edge, but the logical conclusion of that would be that there's no point having a Women's tour and it should just be a unisex one. Which is fine in theory, until you realise in practice it would mean that life as a female snooker player would consist of perpetually getting humped in the cupboard of a Milton Keynes leisure centre by Ken Doherty during qualifying for the rest of your days.

[Shindig]

And I'd imagine the men's tour costs more to travel around. A lass would have to do it for the experience rather than the accolades. Also, I'm not sure a women's tour can draw what has been a predominantly male crowd.

[Yevrah]

This has to be one of the rare occasions where "lack of opportunity" is the actual answer, I think. Men frequently spend hours chatting shit in pubs and pool/snooker clubs while knocking balls around. Women just don't. And that's on them, really. I can't see any obvious gendered reason why they couldn't compete against a man.

Height makes a very marginal difference in that you have to use the rest less if you're taller, but the reality is that the standard of female cue sports is so bad that if I transitioned, put some time in (and was independently wealthy enough to be able to do so) I'd fancy my chances at a crack on the female pool tour. Which is why biological men should not be able to compete with Women on a female tour.

[Spikey M]

I'm calling your bluff and proposing a whip round to make it happen. I'm in for £100. Dig deep lads.

[Yevrah]

Mellin can sponsor me.

[Yevrah]

In all seriousness I can't think of a bigger technical ability gap between genders (or should that be sexes) in any sport, you'd only need 3/4 jobbing male pros to transition and no biological female would ever win another cue sports tournament again.

[Yevrah]

And I'd imagine the men's tour costs more to travel around. A lass would have to do it for the experience rather than the accolades. Also, I'm not sure a women's tour can draw what has been a predominantly male crowd.

As Bill Burr quite rightly points out, a lot of Women just aren't interested in this shit. I mean, when it comes to Snooker you've got a fuck ton of Men who don't give a crap either.

[niko_cee]

I'm calling your bluff and proposing a whip round to make it happen. I'm in for £100. Dig deep lads.

Wasn't there some lottery winner guy who is now in the UK 8-Ball team because he got a table and just played constantly through lockdown? It's one of the few 'sports' where anyone can become genuinely good I think without having some extraordinary talent to start with.

[Ben]

Wasn't there some lottery winner guy who is now in the UK 8-Ball team because he got a table and just played constantly through lockdown? It's one of the few 'sports' where anyone can become genuinely good I think without having some extraordinary talent to start with.

That’s absolutely true. If you’ve got decent enough eyesight and have the commitment then anyone can be competitive at quite a high level. But then there’s the cost prohibition of the pro tour. That lottery winner is good but even guys who I played in the local league with would destroy him, but can’t afford to quit their jobs to pursue it. So they just play money games (often £10k levels too) on weekends to feed their competitive edge.

[Shindig]

I'm interested to see how women's football develops. Mainly because, without the physicality, you can still develop players decent on the ball with good vision. There's also the added weirdness of the game being largely abandoned before being picked back up in the era of 'play the right way' nonsense. There is no equivalent to route one football until some Toni Pulis reinvents it for the women's game.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Pool is the easiest of all the sports, I think. I can't think of one easier. Tenpin bowling up there as well.

[Lewis]

I'm interested to see how women's football develops. Mainly because, without the physicality, you can still develop players decent on the ball with good vision. There's also the added weirdness of the game being largely abandoned before being picked back up in the era of 'play the right way' nonsense. There is no equivalent to route one football until some Toni Pulis reinvents it for the women's game.

The route one point is an interesting one. In ladies' rugby league, because the women can't kick the ball very far at the end of sets, more of the game takes place in the middle of the pitch than the men's game, and it has long struck me that the first team to find a woman who can kick it like a man will gain a massive, massive territorial advantage probably equivalent to fielding an extra couple of defenders. The same could presumably be said for the first football team to find a couple of butch defenders who can regularly clear three quarters of the pitch with accurate passes.

[Pepe]

First team to find a competent goalkeeper will win it all.

[Lofty]

There will be some invasion of the niche sports like cue sports soon enough like the yank golf birds who are basically onlyfans girls whipping up all the golf fans into a frenzy, and that will piss off the die hard women who had to earn their stripes in working men's clubs even more.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've said it before but I just can't take this seriously until someone explains why there are infinitely more male-female transitions than female-male.