News of the day

[phonics]

Is it sensible to continue to let people into England from a religious group that's extremely intolerant and believes that homosexuality should be illegal? Hell, at last count over 50% of British Muslims thought homosexuality should be illegal.

Genuine question.

From my experience working in bars here I'd say that'd be a pretty popular opinion among the non Muslims too.

Also fucking lol when I tried to find polling on this and it's literally 1 poll taken in 2016 of 1000 muslims.

[Yevrah]

From my experience working in bars here I'd say that'd be a pretty popular opinion among the non Muslims too.

Also fucking lol when I tried to find polling on this and it's literally 1 poll taken in 2016 of 1000 muslims.

Knew you wouldn't answer it.

I mean, that's how polls work, right? Interesting that no one has thought to ask the question again since mind. :sherlock:

[Disco]

Is it sensible to continue to let people into England from a religious group that's extremely intolerant and believes that homosexuality should be illegal? Hell, at last count over 50% of British Muslims thought homosexuality should be illegal.

Genuine question.

We let christians in.

[Lewis]

'How am I meant to know what Muslims are more likely to think without polling half a million of them every month?'

[Yevrah]

We let christians in.

We did, but the place has moved on since then and we're pretty much a secular society now. I should add, I'm not sure what the answer to the question I posed Phonics is, but I find it interesting we're not talking about it - LGBQT+ all over the shop and as far as I've seen not a single move to persuade the section of society that'll be least in favour of it to get on board.
'

[Lewis]

All of the left-wing Jews crying about suddenly not feeling safe in London is a similar story. I suppose the tragedy is that it's all just so unexpected. If the BBC and NHS access can't persuade people to forget thousand year old ethnic hatreds then you have to wonder what can.

[Lofty]

My father-in-law always counters with 'do you think they'd let you build churches over there?' Though I have no figures to either confirm or deny his argument, not that he'd pay facts any mind as he blanes global warming on walruses farting after watching David Attenborough.

[Yevrah]

Just looking at some FACHTS and the UK Muslim population is now 6.5% (I thought it was 5%), up 50% to 3.9m in the 10 years between the 2011 and 2021 census counts. A 2017 projection said it'll be 13m by 2050, which will be about 18%.

It's possible I could see different and mis-numbered, but similarly loud groups, call for protection of LGBQT+ rights and then the outlawing of everything to do with it in my lifetime. What a time to be alive.

[Disco]

My father-in-law always counters with 'do you think they'd let you build churches over there?' Though I have no figures to either confirm or deny his argument, not that he'd pay facts any mind as he blanes global warming on walruses farting after watching David Attenborough.

You don't need to, they're already there.

[Disco]

We did, but the place has moved on since then and we're pretty much a secular society now. I should add, I'm not sure what the answer to the question I posed Phonics is, but I find it interesting we're not talking about it - LGBQT+ all over the shop and as far as I've seen not a single move to persuade the section of society that'll be least in favour of it to get on board.
'

We did? We never stopped. Polish and other Euro-Catholics not to mention the Scotch and Irish ones that noone seems to be complaining about in regards to this. Funny how it's only the brown nutcases attracting all the attention.

[Shindig]

If we were truly secular, hymns wouldn't be sung at funerals and weddings.

[Yevrah]

We did? We never stopped. Polish and other Euro-Catholics not to mention the Scotch and Irish ones that noone seems to be complaining about in regards to this. Funny how it's only the brown nutcases attracting all the attention.

I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I'd veer towards all forms of fundamentalist religions being a thing of the past in the UK. By and large we've moved on from that sort of nonsense - the Church of England seem to have got the memo, for example.

[Yevrah]

If we were truly secular, hymns wouldn't be sung at funerals and weddings.

I haven't been to a wedding in a church for years, funerals I'll grant you, but as you'd expect they generally involve old people who grew up taking religion far more seriously than the vast majority do today. We've moved on and worship capitalism and influencers now.

[Yevrah]

My Gran had it right and moved with the times. Church every Sunday while she had her health, but she'd long since given up trying to spread the word, let alone convert anyone and I'm pretty sure if we'd done a TTH meet on the farm she wouldn't have questioned why Jim was there rather than in prison.

[Spikey M]

Before Christianity we were a nation of Pegans complaining about the Marauding Roman slags. Then the vikings. The Norman's. The Saxons... (Fast forward)... the Irish. The Windrush. The Kosovans. The Polish. The Romanians. And today its the Muslims.

This is the history of our island. Nothing new is happening here, aside from the levels of violence being drastically reduced around their arrival.

[Yevrah]

I suppose the problem with a philosophy of "if a similar thing has never been a problem before, it never will be in the future" is that at some point in time it might not always hold true. Was Lewis banging on about Poles and Romanians terkin' aw jaabs? I can't recall.

[Boydy]

I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I'd veer towards all forms of fundamentalist religions being a thing of the past in the UK. By and large we've moved on from that sort of nonsense - the Church of England seem to have got the memo, for example.

Laughs in Northern Irish.

[Disco]

Despite the awfully compelling evidence of Yevs gran not stringing up poofs and the churches he doesn't go to the older generation are still very bigoted in general and they still pass plenty of that onto their children. And the fact that the CofE has mildly reformed it's poisonous views purely out of self preservation means bugger all for the attitudes of it's congregation.

[Yevrah]

It is very possible that I live in a sheltered (from all of the bigotry) South East bubble. Having just Googled it, I do. Only 54% of the people here are white British and 30% are non white, which was about what my gut said.

[Lewis]

I suppose the problem with a philosophy of "if a similar thing has never been a problem before, it never will be in the future" is that at some point in time it might not always hold true. Was Lewis banging on about Poles and Romanians terkin' aw jaabs? I can't recall.

Yes, but seeing as my opposition to this stuff is more cultural than economic, Poles (and Romanians to a lesser extent) are a better bet than third worlders. As for the Romans, the Saxons, the Vikings and the Normans - I don't think horrendous invasions and the subsequent displacement and mass murder of the existing populations are a particularly convincing argument for open borders.

[Spikey M]

Yes, but seeing as my opposition to this stuff is more cultural than economic, Poles (and Romanians to a lesser extent) are a better bet than third worlders. As for the Romans, the Saxons, the Vikings and the Normans - I don't think horrendous invasions and the subsequent displacement and mass murder of the existing populations are a particularly convincing argument for open borders.

I'm not trying to make an argument for open borders. I am pointing out that people move. Cultures collide. Cultures merge, and life continues. As has been, will be.

[Lewis]

Yes, often with lots of violence along the way. Wouldn't it be a good idea to try and avoid that where possible?

[Spikey M]

Yes, often with lots of violence along the way. Wouldn't it be a good idea to try and avoid that where possible?

It would, and we have. Unless you reckon the immigration of the last 60 years has mirrored the (actual) invasions of the Vikings / Saxons, etc. Which it clearly hasn't.

[Lewis]

Their numbers aren't at critical mass yet, but they will be on current projections within our lifetimes, and then conflict is inevitable. In the meantime, we just have all of the other undesirable social effects.

[phonics]

Knew you wouldn't answer it.

My answer that I thought you'd be able to imply is that I don't see why holding an opinion the people already in the country is a disqualifying reason. I don't like it but even if I thought it did I'm not sure a tickbox saying 'place an X if you think homsexuality is a sin' would resolve the issue.

Working in HIV, I'd say Christian Missionaries that we sent have done more to spread homophobia and violence against gay people than Muslims coming here.

[phonics]

Weird that Lewis thinks that we have more in common and face less threat of civil violence from people in the Eastern Bloc, a region famous for it's lack of ethnic division and seperatism, but it's a certainty from other ethnic groups within his life time. Wonder why, probably something totally normal and logical.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Letting people in is fine if you have a coherent monoculture for them to integrate into. The problem is that we don't and that there are forces (such as the dickhead lawyers in the original article) working to destroy what's left of it. Then there's also the issue that Muslims culturally don't ever compromise on anything, which needs standing up to but is instead pandered to (unlike Christians doing the same). You can't pretend that shutting borders is a realistic policy in the current age.

[Shindig]

People gladly stick to their own little enclaves. You can't really change that.

[niko_cee]

Marks and Spencers once put Guacamole in their BLT's so they could flog them as LGBT's, and that was just a war crime.

Paint the Zebra Crossings whatever colour you like, but do not taint the king of all sandwiches with avocado. I can tolerate brown bread and mustard mayo, but the line has to be drawn somewhere and it turns out it's avocado.

Isn't that a BLAT? Which is a quality sandwich.

[Spikey M]

Isn't that a BLAT? Which is a quality sandwich.

I have no idea what it's called outside of Pride month, but what I do know is this:

1) Marks and Spencers REPLACED the BLT with the LGBT for a WHOLE MONTH, and that is unacceptable.

2) Avocado is disgusting.

[Spikey M]

https://i.ibb.co/Q6hZMm2/LGBT-73b5-e1556779617856.jpg

:mad:

[niko_cee]

Yeah, I'm probably with you on processed guacamole having no place in there. Would just be a horrid vinegary mess.


Letting people in is fine if you have a coherent monoculture for them to integrate into.

Really? Isn't this the French way? For all its apparent failings in the eyes of some parts of society I've always thought the multicultural approach to be far better, and it's sad to see people stepping away from this. As far as I can see the "you must become French" approach leads to far greater segregation and division. Isn't there a danger in ascribing all parts of a cultural group with one set of values, when in reality, are all Muslims hook wielding maniacs who want to overthrow western society, for example?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yeah, you're probably right. However our version of multiculturalism seems to involve crushing some sets of values (christian, small c, values) in deference to others.

[Spikey M]

And ruining sandwiches.

[Yevrah]

That sandwich. :D

Makes about as much sense as the acronym.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I'd eat it.

[Yevrah]

They have missed the + though, so maybe they needed to add something to represent that.

[Ben]

Bacon isn't exactly inclusive either.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I dunno, there are some minorities who are very happy to gobble a bit of pork on occasion.

[Don]

They should have known interfering with their hideous gammon food was the red line.

Thank fuck the kids are all right and these archaic beliefs will be phased out.

[SvN]

I'd buy that sandwich if I saw it, sounds delicious.

[Spikey M]

They should have known interfering with their hideous gammon food was the red line.

Thank fuck the kids are all right and these archaic beliefs will be phased out.

They'll come for your Falafel wraps one day. Then we'll see who's laughing.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

He'll just buy some cow anus stuffed into a camel's bladder.

[Ben]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-67557101

What a nerd.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Really proving them wrong...

[randomlegend]

It really can't be overstated how great it is that he looks exactly like the emoji.

[Yevrah]

Imagine the absolute shit the parents of that kid are subjecting him to on a daily basis.

[Disco]

"Teddy..."

If you're getting shit from kids there's your reason not being a speccy little nerd.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-67566602

Footballer Cristiano Ronaldo is facing a class action lawsuit in the US over his promotion of Binance, the largest cryptocurrency exchange in the world.

The plaintiffs claim his endorsement led them to make loss-making investments.

They are seeking damages of "a sum exceeding" $1bn (£790m).

The cheapest NFT from the collection was priced at $77 when it went on sale in November 2022 - but one year later, it was priced at about $1.

:harold:

[Disco]

I don't have a lot of sympathy, anyone who thought nfts were anything other than a complete racket right from the start deserves to have their money taken.

[Spikey M]

Imagine thinking you're too good to promote Coke, then doing this. Drink Water indeed.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I don't have a lot of sympathy, anyone who thought nfts were anything other than a complete racket right from the start deserves to have their money taken.

Baz taking even more shots.

[Lofty]

That's not fair on Baz.

His NFT is of a convicted nonce.

[Jimmy Floyd]

NFTs seem to have got sportsmen right between the eyes. Guess the combination of loads of money, loads of free time and a clear lack of critical thinking skills makes them rather vulnerable to it.

[Baz]

No idea where to even see mine. :harold:

[Lewis]

Weird that Lewis thinks that we have more in common and face less threat of civil violence from people in the Eastern Bloc, a region famous for it's lack of ethnic division and seperatism, but it's a certainty from other ethnic groups within his life time. Wonder why, probably something totally normal and logical.

Ideally there would be less of them all, but Eastern Europeans are clearly more similar to us on important cultural grounds than our third world imports. There are half as many Poles as Pakistanis in the United Kingdom, but they don't cause half as many problems with cousin marriages, attempts to take over schools, economic inactivity, and all the rest of it.

[Manc]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/29/nottingham-city-council-issues-114-notice-in-effect-declaring-itself-bankrupt

Another city through the ropes.

[Boydy]

1729935192716980400

Hit translate post on this.

[phonics]

Definitely not ethnic cleansing.

[Boydy]

Hmm, apparently it's a mistranslation and it's in the "Gaza envelope" rather than in the Gaza strip, i.e. in what is currently Israel.

[Giggles]

Good to see the system works.

1729909207233687829

[Ben]

Israel now telling Palestinians to leave South Gaza, after already branding North Gaza off limits. Seems a bit genocide-y if they carry on bombing whatever they fancy down there as well.

[Disco]

Yes I think that's the point.

[Spikey M]

Giggles really didn't want that salad. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-67544975

[Spikey M]

I do enoy the occasional hand wringing over shit like this. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67550551)

Matey-boy, you couldn't type this article without the slave labour that gathered the metals for your processor. You'd be parched without your slave trade latte and you'd be naked without your sweatshop clobber.

EVERYTHING in our cheap, consumer driven culture, is only possible because of modern slavery.

[Lofty]

I had similar thoughts when I saw the headline, they'd just write an article slating them for spending more on 'ethical' solar panels if they had done that.

[niko_cee]

Just saw a news story about this private members bill to ban conversion therapy, containing one of the all time great bits of rhetorical argumentation from some Christian Alliance talking head.

The question you have to ask yourself, you see, is if you are going to ban exorcisms involving gay people as a conversion therapy, are you also going to ban all exorcisms, in all circumstances?

Erm, yeah? It's 20 fucking 23.

[Lofty]

What about Pazuzu though?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Knew I should have tried an exorcism. Didn't think I had the neck for it.

[Shindig]

I saw a fat old fella walk onto the bus proudly wearing a "DESTROY ISRAEL FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA" T-shirt. Just to complete the look he was also wearing a baseball cap from the "Grumpy Old Bastard Company."

I felt like kicking the cane out from under him, to be honest.

[Don]

Great bit of genocide discourse in true Shinners fashion.

[Kikó]

I saw a fat old fella walk onto the bus proudly wearing a "DESTROY ISRAEL FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA" T-shirt. Just to complete the look he was also wearing a baseball cap from the "Grumpy Old Bastard Company."

I felt like kicking the cane out from under him, to be honest.

Leave Corbyn alone.

[Shindig]

Corbyn doesn't wear baseball caps.

[Ian]

Knew I should have tried an exorcism. Didn't think I had the neck for it.

It's not an exorcism for llamas, surely you just need to get the RSPCA in.

[Ben]

Things people feel they have to apologise for reaching new heights.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-67659010

[Don]

1733560251486441582

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GA7fHgXW0AAThei?format=jpg&name=medium

:happycry:

[Mike]

That’s Carmel McQueen from Hollyoaks right?

[Bam]

Dunno, but I would be up it like a drain pipe

[Don]

1733849358670377446

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GA_k6xPXAAADpnS?format=jpg&name=large

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Things people feel they have to apologise for reaching new heights.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-67659010

Just got back from my local Sainbury's and they were playing it :(

I demand compensation.

[Jimmy Floyd]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/sports-personality/67623729

Must be the worst list ever. The year's British sporting achievements narrowed down to a final six that includes a 52 year old Italian and someone who competes at the Olympics for Ireland.

[Baz]

What’s the odds for Earps?

[Lofty]

Just looked and Willy Hill has her 1/10 :D

[Waffdon]

She’s genuinely shite as well. Even for woman’s standards.

[Lofty]

Yeah the inevitable piss sniffers pop up on social media saying she should play in the PL ignoring the fact she would be one of, if not the shortest ever to play in goals at the top level and there's a reason for that. Raya looks like a manlet on set pieces and he's 6ft.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Sounds like you lot aren't sufficiently supportive of Our Lionesses (raaah). You will be issued with corrective shrines henceforth.

[randomlegend]

Yeah the inevitable piss sniffers pop up on social media saying she should play in the PL ignoring the fact she would be one of, if not the shortest ever to play in goals at the top level and there's a reason for that. Raya looks like a manlet on set pieces and he's 6ft.

She could be 8 foot tall and would still let in 10 a game in the Premier League.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

She could be 8 foot tall and would still let in 10 a game in the Premier League.

Alright Joey Barton.

[Kikó]

1734215946204524725?t=MSD68DTZXrRSPgg7BV_txQ&s=19

All makes sense now.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I like Earps though. She's not the greatest keeper but the whole "Queen of Stops" nickname is great, plus she did save a penalty in the World Cup final then tell Spain to fuck off which earns a huge amount of points.

[Lofty]

More double standards, the Lionnesses tell opposition to fuck off in these finals and they are held up as warrior women but if one of Southgate's boys does it at the next tournament it will be a 'foul mouthed rant brings shame on the nation' headline spinner.

[Ben]

Dunno like, The Sun would be all over Slab Head telling the Frogs to go fuck themselves.

[Yevrah]

The Women are winners though, so as far as I'm concerned they can do what they like. In any case, I'd like to see far more (at least some) shithousery from England, we're far too nice.

[niko_cee]

Yeah, they really won that World Cup Final with gusto.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The Lionesses are just amazing marketing for those delicious untapped markets. Think of hundreds of thousands of newly-brand-unlocked women sitting in front of their TVs up and down the country thinking for the first time in their lives that they might fancy a Budweiser. Makes me emotional just thinking about it.

[Ben]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67702462

French farmers at it again. :cool:

[Ben]

Didn’t think it would be the Frogs that called for Israel to finally stand down first.

[Jimmy Floyd]

More Muslims there than anywhere else (I think).

[Ben]

Indeed, but their ruling class seem to have a lot more disdain for Muslims too than say, ourselves or Germany.

[Jimmy Floyd]

This Yemenis bombing shipping will end the Gaza war, probably inside a week.

[Lewis]

The Houthis are hardcore, and they have the best flag ever created. Hard to see how you deal with them freaks.

[Don]

Trust the most war-torn poverty-hit motherfuckers around to be the most virtuous. I just didn't think they had the means but if this whole genocide (and the Ukraine war before it) has shown anything, it's the myth of Western military might.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The West has military might, it just likes money more. This is in contrast to the Muslim world, which prioritises Allah. If money ever stops being at stake then you're all fucked.

[Lofty]

Let's not pretend if they push fuel prices back towards the £2 mark western electorates won't happily vote for them to be carpet bombed into the history books.

[John Arne]

This is a bit weird, without trying to get a bit Pavel...

This lass "completely forgot" that Gerard Depardieu had raped her. When she did finally remember a few weeks ago, she was able to pinpoint the exact date 28 years ago that it happened.

How bizarre.


A Spanish journalist and author has filed a criminal complaint in Spain against Gérard Depardieu, claiming that the film star raped her nearly 30 years ago in Paris.

Ruth Baza, 51, told AFP she filed the complaint with Spanish police on Thursday, saying the alleged rape happened when she interviewed the actor in Paris on 12 October 1995, for the magazine Cinemania.

Baza, who was 23 at the time while Depardieu was 46, spoke of “an intrusion without any consent, at any time”, adding that she felt “paralysed” during the incident.

It allegedly took place on the premises of the former production company Roissy Films.

Baza initially spoke to AFP of “sexual assault” but when asked if she had been raped, she said yes.

Baza told AFP that she had “completely” forgotten the alleged assault until she read an investigation published by the news website Mediapart in April, in which 13 women accused the actor of sexual violence.

The article provoked “an inner click” and “flashes” of memory, which she said she corroborated by personal notes she took at the time.


https://www.theguardian.com/film/2023/dec/19/gerard-depardieu-accused-rape-journalist-spain

[Spikey M]

I'm calling bullshit.

[randomlegend]

This is a bit weird, without trying to get a bit Pavel...

This lass "completely forgot" that Gerard Depardieu had raped her. When she did finally remember a few weeks ago, she was able to pinpoint the exact date 28 years ago that it happened.

How bizarre.



https://www.theguardian.com/film/2023/dec/19/gerard-depardieu-accused-rape-journalist-spain

Not hard to imagine she'd be able to find out what date she interviewed him based on contemporaneous notes (which she says she has and undoubtedly would have taken for an interview) or from the magazine where it was published or some other source.

[Yevrah]

Seems reasonable that given when it happened and who it was with that someone might repress it only to be triggered into remembering it years later. Absolutely no chance of proving anything now though.

[Lofty]

Vin Diesel accused of sexual assualt on the set of Fast Five now.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Don't know if the Statue Thread was on this board or the old one (Fuck you Mark) so I'll post it here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-67826941

:drool:

[Lewis]

I feel like this headline (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67796155) is slightly misleading.

[Shindig]

Parent discovers hot drinks are indeed hot. Demands action. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-67848084)

[Lofty]

The lids are a fair point but the whole 'random man drops hot liquid all over the kid' part is being played down a lot for some reason.

[Spikey M]

Parent discovers hot drinks are indeed hot. Demands action. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-67848084)

That's a really weird take on a kid having boiling liquid spilt on him by a stranger.

[randomlegend]

Drinks aren't meant to be served hot enough to cause those kinds of burns. That's what the whole "lolololol hot drink hot" McDonald's lawsuit everyone knows was actually about. McDonalds were serving drinks far hotter than they are supposed to and had already been told to stop. The coffee in that case was so hot it fused the woman's labia together and she had to have numerous operations. She was only asking for the cost of her medical bills.

[Shindig]

Thanks for that mental image.

[Lofty]

Sounds like they McCanned it a bit anyway since neither of his parents knew what happened until told.

[Yevrah]

Yeah, this stinks to high heaven. If you're buying a hot drink you're likely to be an adult and what sort of deviant adult would you have to be to spill a boiling drink on a kid who screams out in agony and just walk off. My money's on deliberate.

[Baz]

They might have been having a bad day.

[Spikey M]

He probably just didn't realise how bad it was. I wouldn't expect a mulled wine to be scalding hot. So they just rushed off out of embarrassment, thinking they'd just soaked the kid, not realising the actual damage he'd caused.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

He probably just didn't realise how bad it was. I wouldn't expect a mulled wine to be scalding hot. So they just rushed off out of embarrassment, thinking they'd just soaked the kid, not realising the actual damage he'd caused.

Whilst plugging their ears so they couldn't hear the blood curdling screams from the child?

[Spikey M]

Whilst plugging their ears so they couldn't hear the blood curdling screams from the child?

Kids can be dramatic as fuck. Spill a cold drink on them and most of them would scream too.

[Shindig]

Blisters sometimes take while to show up, too.

[niko_cee]

Happy New Year Japan (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-67855990)

[John Arne]

I was thinking about the 2011 Japan earthquake/tsunami a few days ago.

It's interesting how quickly major disasters outside of "the west" are forgotten fairly quickly. 20,000 died in 2011, with something like 50,000 displaced.

[Shindig]

Not to mention the meltdown.

[Spikey M]

God really does not like Asia at this time of year.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

He's a racist bastard.

[Lewis]

1741729441385177125

That is fantastic footage.

[Ben]

That’s incredible.

[Dquincy]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/67856425

The husband charged with killing her, but not murder, but she was also hit by the car, so not a passenger.

[Pepe]

Saw that yesterday. Are any details out there? Did he run over her on purpose or something?

[John Arne]

South Korean opposition leader stabbed in the neck.

Brutal start to 2024 for east Asia


https://youtu.be/w6F_22l7f-A?si=1UOYYNlresWh4XpB

[niko_cee]

Now there's a plane on fire (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-67862011) at Tokyo airport.

Assuming it isn't some crash barriers blowing in the wind that is.

[Jimmy Floyd]

There were a load of stats going round the other day about 2023 being the safest ever year for passenger air travel, that was really asking for trouble.

[Ben]

1742115546307396001

All the passengers got off the plane apparently.

[niko_cee]

Off the big plane.

[John Arne]

Looking forward to the VASAviation video on this.

[Gray Fox]

Off the big plane.

I think everyone got off the little plane too, just some maybe not in the way they wanted.

[Shindig]

Looking forward to the VASAviation video on this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fItu5qM7QfE

Unfortunately, the ATC prior to the accident was poor quality so they decided not to include it as part of the video. Looks like the Boeing got clearance to land, the coastguards were told to hold short of the runway and wait.

[Lewis]

I wonder whether a plane full of non-East Asians could evacuate a burning plane according to plan.

[niko_cee]

The Houthis are hardcore

I don't feel enough has been made of the madlads on the small boats who thought the best response to approaching US helicopter gunships was to open fire on them with small arms, with the entirely predictable outcome of not death to Americans. Got to respect that moxie.

[Bishop]

Do you think it's fair to say current events have surpassed even what I said 2 decades ago? Kilroy would never have stood for any of this.

[Lewis]

How you been Harold?

[Bishop]

How you been Harold?

I've been great, are you still writing? Popped in here once or twice through the years and saw some speculating if I was banged up :harold:

Much more mundane, I'm afraid. I simply couldn't sign up and gave up after some absolutely corking names. I thought there were just no new sign ups. You've all missed out there. I just had some downtime and thought I'd see if it worked now after reminiscing about my Thread Starter Of The Year awards... well you know how it is. So now, some several years later, it worked. Isn't that strange.

[Yevrah]

Harold, how the Devil? I'm hoping this is actually you and if you could resurrect John while you're at it that'd be a bonus.

[Bishop]

Harold, how the Devil? I'm hoping this is actually you and if you could resurrect John while you're at it that'd be a bonus.

I don't think I ever spoke to John much, really. I haven't perused this board in years so I'm surprised there's anyone here I remember. Is henry still here?

I'm quite disappointed my Farage avatar isn't showing up.

[Yevrah]

Henry's vanished. He might have come back during the pandemic as some others did IIRC, but they didn't stay around for long. We could do with the forum version of a school reunion really.

[Bishop]

I don't remember than many people. Although I can't imagine there's many new sign ups.

No yearly awards these days, I take it :harold:

[Yevrah]

We don't do anything these days. It's just the same people, discussing the same shit (+ new developments) in our tiny corner of the internet that has remained unchanged for decades and it's personally the way I like it.

[Baz]

I don't remember than many people. Although I can't imagine there's many new sign ups.

No yearly awards these days, I take it :harold:

https://www.thethirdhalf.co.uk/showthread.php?3029-The-Third-Half-2022-Awards-Ceremony&p=550462&viewfull=1#post550462

[Pepe]

We don't do anything these days.

We just had that Paint Christmas competition.

[Manc]

And lost a solid member of the board as a result.

[Yevrah]

Did we?

[phonics]

And lost a solid member of the board as a result.

Just because he's honest about being overweight there's no need to refer to Offshore as solid.

[niko_cee]

Whilst I'm no advocate of the woe is me I'm part of the demographic that has it all, there is some good stuff in this (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/05/white-middle-aged-men-bottom-of-everything-tribunal/).

It's behind a paywall, but most of it is pretty prosaic. Dyslexic white guy uses full fat version of 'the N Word' in some diversity training, which within context made sense although as noted he probably should have used the abbreviated version. The good bit is:


The trainer was left “badly distressed” and took almost a week off work.

What? If that's your job, shouldn't you be a little more hardened to the potential mental ravages of hearing such a thing? I everyone just a chancer these days?

[Baz]

If I ever have to mental health first aid someone [I don’t know] at work, I’m definitely gonna try and get signed off with second-hand stress.

[niko_cee]

:D

I was very tempted to tag you into that as it seemed like something you'd be on the coalface of.

[Shindig]

£500,000 for a hard R is amazing work.

[Yevrah]

It's funny, I remember a time when some on this board and in the actual world said things like this were just overblown Daily Mail headlines and would never actually happen. But just look at that (and many other similarly ridiculous stories you see on an almost daily basis now). It's insanity.

[Jimmy Floyd]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-67930452

Sounds like it's heading for complete anarchy over there.

[Spikey M]

That "Fourth Turning" theory is feeling more and more like fact. The world is a tinderbox.

[Boydy]

What was that stuff again?

[Spikey M]

Cycles of society, essentially.

https://www.marketoracle.co.uk/images/2015/Sep/crisis-of-trust-3.png

[Yevrah]

That is some top level grifting right there.

[Spikey M]

There's alot more to it than that and it does line up with history somewhat. It was just a case of whether it's pure hindsight. However, this was written in the seventies and alot of what's happened/happening has been pretty on the nose.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm guessing 1st turning is the postwar people, 2nd turn hippies and Reagan/Thatcher, 3rd turn Tony Blair, and 4th turn is us. Still waiting for public space to be reinvented, mind you.

[Spikey M]

I'm guessing 1st turning is the postwar people, 2nd turn hippies and Reagan/Thatcher, 3rd turn Tony Blair, and 4th turn is us. Still waiting for public space to be reinvented, mind you.

Sort of, alot of it is around the world people are born into. It's actually where the terms "Baby Boomers", "Gen X" etc. came from.

It's interesting reading / watching (there are various YouTube videos available) if you find yourself with some free time to fill.

[Boydy]

Sounds like the sort of youtube videos that would lead you down a conspiracy rabbit hole.

[Yevrah]

It also smacks of one of those things that's worded in such a way that you can read into it what you will, thus on face value at least increasing its credibility.

[Spikey M]

Sounds like the sort of youtube videos that would lead you down a conspiracy rabbit hole.

It really isn't. It's just interesting social theory.

[Max Power]

So, erm, what do we reckon to these Jew tunnels in New York?

[phonics]

I saw a funny post along the lines of "Can you imagine seeing this Hasidic man pop out from the sewers, failing to pull your phone out in time to record it, then trying to tell people what you just saw without sounding like the most anti-semitic person of all time?"

[Yevrah]

I saw a funny post along the lines of "Can you imagine seeing this Hasidic man pop out from the sewers, failing to pull your phone out in time to record it, then trying to tell people what you just saw without sounding like the most anti-semitic person of all time?"

:D

[Jimmy Floyd]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67932569

High wage economy latest. These people literally have no idea.

[niko_cee]

Outside of all the bullshit, and without regard to the various scandals that have been raised around them, BrewDog are mostly just a victim of their own success. Despite protestations to the contrary they aren't some small independent entity, they're a massive business. Their products are also, generally, not that appealing to what they imagine is their core market [beer wankers]. The founders should have just sold out and gone on to start something else more inline with their alleged beliefs. Of course, their actual beliefs are more likely loads of money and world domination.

Had an Azvex Alice Rings IPA tonight and it was very good.

[Lofty]

The old contradict Westminster policy going well:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67948509

[Jimmy Floyd]

They have inhabited the term 'Westminster' so effectively that bagpipes play behind it in my mind. The Great Other, constantly conspiring against caledonian emancipation.

[niko_cee]

What's the deal with South Africa these days? Are they just full in hock to Russia and China? Heart-warming to see one of Giggles mob [assume by the name] standing up for those interests in The Hague.

[Giggles]

It's not fucking Mick Wallace is it?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Blinne Ní Ghrálaigh KC said the international community had “repeatedly failed” people in Rwanda and Bosnia and Rohingya people in Myanmar.

The brotherhood of victims has some new members. Don't mention Armenia obvs, or the Uighurs, or Darfur, that would be most unseemly.

[Don]

Lads, keep calm and eat sheperd's pie.

[Lewis]

As wacky an episode as the Rwandan Genocide was in pure 'What you doing lads?' terms, it had to play out how it did, and it all worked out for them in the end. I never understand why the failure of the 'International Community' to intervene and force some stupid settlement on them is seen as a failure.

[Jimmy Floyd]

South Africa have removed their under 19 cricket captain (they are about to host the U19 World Cup) because he's Jewish. Confirmed gone full bad actor.

[Don]

He's still in the squad which is a shame, just had captaincy stripped due to potential safety concerns. Cry a bit about Russia being banned from all sport by your glorious people.

[Spikey M]

Save all this passion for WW3 lads.

[Lewis]

I can see the argument for defending commercial shipping as the entire justification for having a navy, even if you would expect more countries to be involved, but just bombing these Yemeni maniacs isn't going to do anything. If you could bomb them out the Saudi Arabians would have managed it years ago.

[Jimmy Floyd]

We need to help MBS build a massive canal through the desert to the Persian Gulf so that they become irrelevant.

[niko_cee]

Oh god there's going to be another series of that Ancient Apocalypse wank. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-67940671)

[Jimmy Floyd]

"This is older than any other site we know in the Amazon. We have a Eurocentric view of civilisation, but this shows we have to change our idea about what is culture and civilisation," says Prof Stephen Rostain, director of investigation at the National Centre for Scientific Research in France, who led the research.

These people give themselves away from line 1, every time.

[Shindig]

Cornish headcase. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-67955787)

The bodycam footage is slightly mad. The plod's got his eye trained on the back garden whilst you hear him load the gun up.

[niko_cee]

He seems a bit old to have been planning a revenge school shooting.

Would have also been better for all concerned if they'd just shot to kill.

[Boydy]

South Africa have removed their under 19 cricket captain (they are about to host the U19 World Cup) because he's Jewish. Confirmed gone full bad actor.

1745842133641097426

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/jan/12/south-africa-stand-down-under-19-cricket-captain-david-teeger-anti-war-protest-fears?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Didn't think I was getting the full story from your post, somehow.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I thought it was ok for people to sympathise with their favourite side in the Israel-Palestine conflict? Maybe not, I dunno.

[niko_cee]

Also the safety line is clearly absolute bullshit, seeing as he's still going to be playing. Do anti-whatever protesters only look at the captaincy to direct their outrage?

Of course, there's no place in sport for politics and it always brings a tear to the eye to see the most corrupt nations on earth perpetually in the vanguard of said cause.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Knowing CSA it will without a shadow of a doubt have been a directive from on high to ensure congruity with what they're up to in The Hague. He made the comments months ago ffs.

[Spikey M]

Also the safety line is clearly absolute bullshit, seeing as he's still going to be playing. Do anti-whatever protesters only look at the captaincy to direct their outrage?

Of course, there's no place in sport for politics and it always brings a tear to the eye to see the most corrupt nations on earth perpetually in the vanguard of said cause.

I'm not sure we're in a position to cast judgement on "the most corrupt nations on earth".

[Jimmy Floyd]

According to this we're in the top 10% least corrupt nations on earth, so we probably are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

[niko_cee]

We probably have a Eurocentric view of corruption.

[Don]

This is why thinktanks exist in the West :happycry:

[phonics]

According to this we're in the top 10% least corrupt nations on earth, so we probably are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

How do you know we didn't bribe the people who make the rankings? Gotta be two steps ahead.

[Lewis]

Thinking that we are one of the most corrupt countries in the world is like insisting that Scott McTominay is world class because you say him score a forty yarder against City that time. Right, and have you watched any football before or since?

[Shindig]

I'm going to assume the European corruption is largely tax fiddling. African corruption being death squads, election fraud and delicious blackmail. That's a bit more exciting than shell companies and 'this is in my wife's name'.

[Pepe]

Yeah, you lot are Sunday League level in corruption. Thinking otherwise is deluded.

[Yevrah]

Thinking that we are one of the most corrupt countries in the world is like insisting that Scott McTominay is world class because you say him score a forty yarder against City that time. Right, and have you watched any football before or since?

It's 100% a symptom of the 'everything is awful' news mongering society we live in and it really needs to stop. During the expenses scandal I had a guys from Pakistan and South Africa in my team and they were laughing their arses off at how seriously us Brits were taking it. The latter compared the duck house stuff to a politician from back home who'd built a massive pool and explained it away as emergency water storage in case of a fire.

[Spikey M]

I have been saying "now, everything is shit" for some time and I stand by it.

[niko_cee]

Isn't that just being old?

[Boydy]

I dunno, you used to be able to get an NHS dentist, you used to be able to get a doctor appointment, the road used to be not full of potholes, the schools used to not be crumbling, heating your home used to be a lot more affordable, housing used to be a lot more affordable.

I don't think being less corrupt than Pakistan or South Africa means we're not corrupt nor does it mean everything isn't shit.

[Yevrah]

I dunno, you used to be able to get an NHS dentist, you used to be able to get a doctor appointment, the road used to be not full of potholes, the schools used to not be crumbling, heating your home used to be a lot more affordable, housing used to be a lot more affordable.

And yet, if we look at TTH, we all own homes, can get doctor's appointments, still drive our cars and heat our homes. NHS dentist I'll give you, but there's no definition under which everything is shit.

[niko_cee]

Your 2024 doctor appointment [or AI based e-consult] is probably more likely to see you not die so it's swings and roundabouts.

[Jimmy Floyd]

In the world at large, everything is getting significantly better every year. Of course each country has its peaks and troughs, our issue is being short on housing supply, if you solved that we'd be back into a golden age very quickly.

But seriously, think about what life was actually like in say 2006, a year you can remember. Almost everything was worse, apart from your waistline and number of possible futures. I mean jeez, you had to go and buy music in shops.

[Lewis]

It's mental to think how Western politicians have pissed the last thirty years up the wall. If you could to time travel back to the end of the Cold War with a plan to deliberately fuck everything up across the board, what would you have done differently?

[Spikey M]

And yet, if we look at TTH, we all own homes, can get doctor's appointments, still drive our cars and heat our homes. NHS dentist I'll give you, but there's no definition under which everything is shit.

And yet all of those things are more difficult for the average person than they were 20 years ago.

[Boydy]

1742597262633517447

Childcare costs an arm and a leg as well.

[randomlegend]

And yet, if we look at TTH, we all own homes, can get doctor's appointments, still drive our cars and heat our homes. NHS dentist I'll give you, but there's no definition under which everything is shit.

I literally cannot get a neuro appointment. As in, they said "we have no appointments" over 6 months ago and I've heard nothing since.

[Luke Emia]

I literally cannot get a neuro appointment. As in, they said "we have no appointments" over 6 months ago and I've heard nothing since.

Yep. My wife has a knee problem and needs surgery, first went to the doctors last Feb. Had a scan in September and was told need an operation heard nothing since.

[Baz]

Be healthy, requiring no help or support, and you won’t experience any problems, seems to be Yev’s sentiment.

[Spikey M]

I think the Accountant in Oxfordshire may just be a tad out of touch with what it's like for average Joe.

[Shindig]

I reckon a fair chunk of that stat will be down to care (for elderly and young people alike) costing a packet/being a bit shit.

[Spikey M]

I reckon a fair chunk of that stat will be down to care (for elderly and young people alike) costing a packet/being a bit shit.

To borrow a phrase from our Palestinian friends "nothing happens in a vacuum". It's a whole mess. There are far, far too many people in receipt of benefits - especially disability benefits and the associated carer ones - and the hospital appointments that could potentially help to address this just cannot be found.

Add to that an increasingly aging population and less than 50% of young people having kids and we have a problem that is just going to keep getting worse. Taxes will continue to rise, wages will continue to stagnate and, well, yeah, everything is shit.

[Yevrah]

I think the Accountant in Oxfordshire may just be a tad out of touch with what it's like for average Joe.

Only thing I’ve been shown to be out of touch on is the doctors point, which do seem much better here based on your experiences. If I had to guess why there’s a stark difference I suspect that’s down to fund raising/donations from successful Oxford graduates keeping the show going.

[Yevrah]

Be healthy, requiring no help or support, and you won’t experience any problems, seems to be Yev’s sentiment.

Far from it. My sentiment is that everything isn’t shit, although I accept some things are worse than they were.

[Spikey M]

Far from it. My sentiment is that everything isn’t shit, although I accept some things are worse than they were.

You need evidence on hous prices being disproportionate and fuel poverty being on the rise? Ok.


Earnings and house price growth over the past 20 years:
https://www.lloydsbankinggroup.com/assets/images/media/press-releases/halifax-house-price-graph.jpg

SHIT.

Fuel poverty:

https://static.utilityweek.co.uk/app/uploads/2023/04/27081307/PA-Consulting-graph-fuel-poverty-article.jpg

Well, until pretty recently it was surprisingly NOT SHIT, but don't you worry, they've addressed that balance superbly over the last 3 years and I can confirm that fuel poverty is, in fact, SHIT.

[Boydy]

I forgot about all the actual literal shit that's in the rivers and sea as well.

[Spikey M]

In more interesting and (if you're Icelandic) more shit news, there are some cracking videos on Twitter (SHIT as of 2023) of this latest volcanic eruption.

1746506556445741138?t=43zYlc1-SpDtEelq4YV_Xg&s=19

[Shindig]

I had a thought the other day about whether lava is sustainable. Turns out it is, for as long as the Earth's core doesn't burn out. What a mad fucking thing we live on.

[Yevrah]

You need evidence on hous prices being disproportionate and fuel poverty being on the rise? Ok.


SHIT.

Fuel poverty:


Well, until pretty recently it was surprisingly NOT SHIT, but don't you worry, they've addressed that balance superbly over the last 3 years and I can confirm that fuel poverty is, in fact, SHIT.

And yet, as I said initially we (on TTH) all still have homes that we heat and can fuel our cars. As for fuel poverty itself, I thought we'd all agreed that that was a (temporary, lol) price worth paying to stand in solidarity with our Ukranian brothers and sisters. I suspect the overlap on a venn diagram of people who think things are SHIT and support the nonsense we're indulging in in Ukraine would be off the charts.

In any case, I think there's a bit of the Steve Bruce semantics here in that worse doesn't automatically mean shit.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Would you take shorter NHS waiting lists but, for example, give up online shopping? This is of course not a choice available in reality but a choice that sums up the last 20 years of whether things are shit or not.

If you only focus on pet issues or things that you specifically perceive to have got worse than it's easy to decide that everything is worse, when in fact it's far better and will continue to get better, too.

[Raoul Duke]

If you only focus on pet issues or things that you specifically perceive to have got worse than it's easy to decide that everything is worse, when in fact it's far better and will continue to get better, too.

I'm not sure health, housing and wages are really "pet issues"

[Spikey M]

And yet, as I said initially we (on TTH) all still have homes that we heat and can fuel our cars. As for fuel poverty itself, I thought we'd all agreed that that was a (temporary, lol) price worth paying to stand in solidarity with our Ukranian brothers and sisters. I suspect the overlap on a venn diagram of people who think things are SHIT and support the nonsense we're indulging in in Ukraine would be off the charts.

In any case, I think there's a bit of the Steve Bruce semantics here in that worse doesn't automatically mean shit.

I can only go by personal experience here, but I can assure you that the people I visit - who often live with their curtains permanently drawn and the lights off, in their black mold covered flats, with their breath visibly hanging in the air - couldn't give 2 fucks about Ukraine. That's very much the domain of people that complain about having to switch to the Essentials range in Waitrose.

[Spikey M]

I'm not sure health, housing and wages are really "pet issues"

I was struggling to get "Surery based Spark Plug Salesman" to convey the same level of sass and vim as "Accountant in Oxford", so thank you for this.

[Shindig]

TTH is not representative of society at large, Yev.

[Yevrah]

TTH is not representative of society at large, Yev.

Of course and I was making that exact point when seriously questioning what we're doing in Ukraine as people here are clearly suffering as a result. To be clear, I think most of the things people are citing were better years ago but they don't in and of themselves make everything shit.

[Spikey M]

I mean, I obviously don't actually mean "everything" is shit. I'm generalising to paint a picture of a society that is in decline. I would hope we can agree that the trend of every successive generation doing better than their predecessors has been reversed.

[randomlegend]

Would you take shorter NHS waiting lists but, for example, give up online shopping? This is of course not a choice available in reality but a choice that sums up the last 20 years of whether things are shit or not.

If you only focus on pet issues or things that you specifically perceive to have got worse than it's easy to decide that everything is worse, when in fact it's far better and will continue to get better, too.

What an idiotic post lmao.

[Lewis]

If Floyd has a coherent worldview these days it appears to be that putting up with absolute shit is somehow the noble course.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I can only go by personal experience here, but I can assure you that the people I visit - who often live with their curtains permanently drawn and the lights off, in their black mold covered flats, with their breath visibly hanging in the air - couldn't give 2 fucks about Ukraine. That's very much the domain of people that complain about having to switch to the Essentials range in Waitrose.

Go back to the same people in the 1990s and tell me they were having a better time. If we're talking about bias, your job is literally to deal with the people at the worst end of things.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If Floyd has a coherent worldview these days it appears to be that putting up with absolute shit is somehow the noble course.

No, I'm just not stupid enough to think that there are not costs and benefits to everything. Take immigration as an easy example. The benefits of immigration are well-advertised but the main one is a vast amount of cheap labour which has driven corporate profitability in certain sectors, as well as the cultural enrichment yada yada. The costs of it are pressures on housing, pressures on health, downward pressures on wages, pressures on law and order. Some people like to emphasise the benefits and other the costs. What no one seems to be willing to do is own both the benefits and the costs. If you want to push a point of view in a mature way you need to accept the fact that there are ALWAYS downsides and consequences, both intended and unintended - and yes, that means that you need to be prepared to put up with some absolute shit. It's only mollycoddled five year olds who can have their cake and eat it.

[Lewis]

I think everybody knows about costs and benefits. But some things have greater costs than benefits, and other things, like NHS waiting lists and online shopping, aren't remotely related. If you 'own both the benefits and the costs' then you own nothing, and you absolve yourself from taking any ownership of anything, which is basically the last thirty years of de-politicised declinist shit in a handy phrase.

[randomlegend]

I would imagine healthcare would have fully collapsed without immigration. They staff half the service. They tend to be younger which means they are in work, paying tax, and have lower burden of illness. They have more kids than the native population which helps with our lopsided age demographic.

The healthcare system's problems are predominantly to do with the (mainly white British) elderly population.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Everything is related. What no one does is admit that in promoting their particular list of desired nice things, bad things will also result but these are a price worth paying. Nigel Farage, for example, should be out there saying that we should stop immigration to lessen pressure on NHS, housing and crime, and that this will also mean paying £10 more for a deliveroo. If you don't own up to the costs of things then you're effectively just whingeing.

[Spikey M]

Go back to the same people in the 1990s and tell me they were having a better time. If we're talking about bias, your job is literally to deal with the people at the worst end of things.

The point being made is that there were much less of them in the 90's. Both by number and population percentage.

[Don]

Lads, online shopping and deliveroo are not the achievements you think they are.

[Spikey M]

They must be, we swapped the NHS for them, after all.

[Boydy]

I thought we swapped the EU for the NHS?

[Giggles]

What was the figure again? :D

[Jimmy Floyd]

£350 million a week, which adds up to £18.2 billion a year. NHS spending is actually about £39 billion a year more now than it was in 2015/16. So the bus was right and then some.

[Lewis]

Everything is related. What no one does is admit that in promoting their particular list of desired nice things, bad things will also result but these are a price worth paying. Nigel Farage, for example, should be out there saying that we should stop immigration to lessen pressure on NHS, housing and crime, and that this will also mean paying £10 more for a deliveroo. If you don't own up to the costs of things then you're effectively just whingeing.

I know this isn't - or can't be - entirely serious, but those aren't equivalent positives and negatives.

The problem with the immigration debate is that 'immigrants' is a largely pointless term. Immigrants from wealthy countries are more likely than not to make a positive financial and social contribution, and, as every country that bothers to collect the data has found, immigrants from crap countries are not. If you could click your fingers and every Somalian in the United Kingdom vanished the only noticeable trends would be thousands of vacant council houses and less crime being committed. The same would not be the case for Chinese or American immigrants. This should be the main point informing the immigration debate, but the people in charge of it are of the same mindset as you, that if you want the wage suppression you have to accept the wage suppression, and you couldn't do anything about it anyway because if we stop the wage suppression how will we suppress the wages?

[Shindig]

If the Chinese vanished, Durham would be a ghost town. They seem to be the only people buying up retail units for their restaurants and boba tea places.

[Dquincy]

Add to that an increasingly aging population and less than 50% of young people having kids and we have a problem that is just going to keep getting worse. Taxes will continue to rise, wages will continue to stagnate and, well, yeah, everything is shit.

But trust me on the sunscreen… :cool: