News of the day

[Jimmy Floyd]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65981277

Presumably becasue they need to get another 3 days of news cycle out of it.

[niko_cee]

It's alright, there's some more sea based tragedy to fill any gaps.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-65982637

How does that heppen when you have a support boat?


Since it was confirmed that Mr Hughes was missing, donations to his online fundraiser have soared.

Be amazing if it was a ruse to this end.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

They dead yet?

[Spikey M]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12222391/Stepson-Brit-billionaire-stuck-Titanic-sub-DELETES-Twitter-account-flirting-model.html?ito=push-notification&ci=-Ni4bHSYYF&cri=l9g1itfrEP&si=avDRAZsBN0Zk&xi=d133c45f-b498-4de3-a728-373b335ae8e4&ai=12222391

:D

[Shindig]

Rumbled. :D

[Boydy]

I'd seen all the stuff about him on twitter but what I didn't realise is that he's THIRTY FUCKING SIX YEARS OLD. I assumed he was in his early twenties. Jesus christ.

[niko_cee]

I know the what the fuck bar is pretty high these days [or should that be low?] but, seriously, what the fuck is this all about?

https://uk.yahoo.com/finance/news/man-drugged-wife-nightly-invited-143520666.html

[Offshore Toon]

That's proper insane.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Sounds like a Haneke film that couldn't attract funding.

[Ian]

Christ almighty.


while one denied it was rape, saying: “It’s his wife, he does what he likes with her.”

[niko_cee]

“That should be possible,” he told me. “But [if it’s Titan] they’re banging on a carbon fibre hull, not a steel hull.

“That’s like banging a log, instead of banging a bell - it’s less loud and more muffled, so it’s not a crisp, clear noise. That may not propagate through the water anywhere near as well.”

Is there any part of this sub that isn't an absolute shambles?

You would have thought, at the very least it would carry some sort of deployable distress beacon in the event it needs be found.

[niko_cee]

It also offers a nice distraction from the Bank of England seemingly being determined to absolutely ruin the lives of everyone earning between £30k and, let’s say, £100k per annum.

Classic Economic Theory versus Generation Klarna.

FIGHT!

[Disco]

Is there any part of this sub that isn't an absolute shambles?

You would have thought, at the very least it would carry some sort of deployable distress beacon in the event it needs be found.

I think the big problem with that is that anything sufficiently close enough to the surface to communicate is then too far away from the sub to be of any real use in locating it. Plus, as they are now discovering, finding out there's a problem is the easiest part of the process and the people running a death tube with a shitty window rated for less than half their operating depth is hardly likely to start bothering with multiple miles of cabling and all the surface support that must entail.

[Spikey M]

"Debris field" discovered.

1671911263264284673?t=MN7eLNutpGaENDLb9LFbAQ&s=19

I assume by "potential breakthrough" they mean "they're all dead".

[Disco]

Debris in the sea, can't be much of that. Same goes for noises being detected, I'd be willing to wager they're all just picking up other search boats or some horny porpoises.

[Spikey M]

The BBC are saying there's been an "implosion", so I can only imagine the Debris is pretty clear cut.

[niko_cee]

Compacted billionaire.

Of the available options that might be the best way to go in the circumstances, assuming it's fairly instantaneous.

[Shindig]

Probably from all the gasping for air. Or one of them brought a gun onboard and was all, "I HAVE A PLAN!"

[niko_cee]

The worst way being floating on the surface until you ran out of air because you'd been bolted in to the bastard thing.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

RIP in pieces, lads.

[Disco]

Or one very flat piece at least.

[Gray Fox]

Sounds like they'll be in a great many pieces.

Only slight upside is they didnt have to sit on the bottom of the ocean watching their oxygen fade away. They probably had no idea anything had happened until it was over.

[Shindig]

I'd love a cockpit black box style recording of this.

"What do you mean you have no idea how to get us out of this? Didn't you invent this bathtub?"

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

"Why didn't you charge the controller before we left?"

[niko_cee]

Why are all four lights flashing?

[Shindig]

"The up button is also the down button? Is it too late to cancel?"

[Raoul Duke]

Maybe they forgot to invert the vertical axis and they're actually in space?

[Yevrah]

Amazing to think that if the thing hadn't imploded they may well have been rescued, against ludicrous odds.

[phonics]

James Cameron just absolutely burying the company as Charlatans who did everything on the cheap. Love it.

[phonics]

Amazing to think that if the thing hadn't imploded they may well have been rescued, against ludicrous odds.

If it hadn't have imploded they wouldn't need rescuing... They shopped at B&Q and fixed things with chewing gum and paper clips because 'innovation > regulation'. They were a bunch of rich chancers and the owner got what he deserved.

[Yevrah]

I don't think many people, if any, deserve death, but you carry on.

[7om]

Phonics wishing death on people is not that surprising, really.

[phonics]

Deserved is maybe harsh but it's like the man who invented the Segway dying because he fell asleep on it and drove it off a cliff. It's at the very least funny.

[Shindig]

It's unfortunate innocent people got caught in the crossfire of this very dodgy endeavour.

[Yevrah]

You've also missed the point I was making, in that the general consensus was that the rescuers wouldn't find the thing. They did. Had it been a loss of power, again the general consensus, they'd have possibly been saved.

Hell, it might well have been a loss of power that stranded them down there and the thing imploded as it couldn't take any more than 3 days worth of seabed pressure. I'm assuming there's little chance they actually tested that it could last for as long as the oxygen would.

[phonics]

It is quite literally the same thing as the captain of the titanic driving into an iceberg that he was warned about. It’s beautifully ironic.

[Yevrah]

I must say that it wasn't lost on me that the thing is still claiming lives well over a century after it fucking sank.

[phonics]

Also

1566425438376828928

Perfection. Just a shooter calling their shot.

[niko_cee]

Was the general consensus really loss of power? Wasn't it more, they're clearly all dead outside of everyone not involved in the rescue? And even privately that is probably what all the Dick Hole Institute people were thinking.

[niko_cee]

Also, well done Disco for insta-calling it. :hat:

[Lewis]

Captain Smith followed standard procedure when the ice warnings came in, which you would think James Cameron would know. Cheap promo.

[Yevrah]

I didn't see anyone say that they're already dead or that the thing may have imploded.

EDIT: In the media.

[phonics]

It's almost like there are legal economic ramifications for the media saying things about companies and people that you can't directly prove.

[Yevrah]

You're utterly insufferable this evening.

[niko_cee]

They're probably all dead doesn't make for 5 days of news cycle though, does it?

[Yevrah]

They're probably all dead doesn't make for 5 days of news cycle though, does it?

Very true. I suppose it's also in bad taste to suggest it.

On another note, I swear I saw the CEO chap talking about the hull being the only thing that wasn't made from Walmart purchases. So I guess not a single bit of it was ocean bed worthy.

[niko_cee]

Yeah, this (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65957709) aged badly.

[phonics]

You're utterly insufferable this evening.

Look even I'd agree that I don't think you needed to insert 'this evening' into that sentence.

[Gray Fox]

You've also missed the point I was making, in that the general consensus was that the rescuers wouldn't find the thing. They did. Had it been a loss of power, again the general consensus, they'd have possibly been saved.

I was sure they'd never find it too. Even though they had a pretty good idea where it was going to be, to find it within 3/4 days, is quite impressive.

[Boydy]

1671977284574519334

[Spikey M]

They heard the implosion of a tiny submarine 4 miles under water? I'm calling bullshit.

[phonics]

Well no, they saw a noise that wasn't a sinewave that fit one of the fish there. Sonar is like 8 miles or so.

[Pepe]

How many successful dives did the submarine accomplish? If this was the first expedition then the people going in are insane, but if it had hundreds of successful trips, then not so much.

[niko_cee]

This one appeared to have a big V on the side of the craft in the pre-launch stuff so I assumed this was the fifth 'expedition'.

[Spikey M]

How many successful dives did the submarine accomplish? If this was the first expedition then the people going in are insane, but if it had hundreds of successful trips, then not so much.

That's like saying jumping off a cliff isn't stupid because nobody has landed on the rocks yet. The obvious potential of it happening is what makes it stupid, not the eventuality of it actually happening. It was always a matter of time. The thing wasn't seaworthy.

[John Arne]

Yeah, I think sometimes people forget just how mental the pressure is at those depths and how well engineered any vessel has to be to not be crushed.

[wullie]

Somehow while all this was going on I ended up looking at similar things and one I'd never heard of before was Byford Dolphin, the details are horrific but in addition there's an official report with autopsy photos that's much worse. This is why I avoid the deep end of a swimming pool.

[niko_cee]

The blood of the three divers left intact inside the chambers likely boiled instantly

:sick:

[John Arne]

Yeah, even the wiki article is full on.



Investigation by forensic pathologists determined that Hellevik, being exposed to the highest pressure gradient and in the process of moving to secure the inner door, was forced through the crescent-shaped opening measuring 60 centimetres (24 in) long created by the jammed interior trunk door

With the escaping air and pressure, it included bisection of his thoracoabdominal cavity, which resulted in fragmentation of his body, followed by expulsion of all of the internal organs of his chest and abdomen, except the trachea and a section of small intestine, and of the thoracic spine
.

Jesus fucking christ.

[Jimmy Floyd]

'Apart from that, how was your day?'

[John Arne]

Hey hun, you know how you've always loved the fact that my thoracoabdominal cavity was in one piece..... well....

[Shindig]

Imagine something so traumatic happening so fast your brain can't even realise it.

[Disco]

I think one of the rules of the internet is that it will eventually show you the Byford Dolphin pictures. Next up the Erfurt shitsplosion and that Japanese food poisoning flight.

[-james-]

I think one of the rules of the internet is that it will eventually show you the Byford Dolphin pictures. Next up the Erfurt shitsplosion and that Japanese food poisoning flight.


I saw this post and went "pfft well I've never seen them" and then immediately went and Googled them, so yeah.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I've never seen them either and I'm not going to look them up.

Lemon party, meat spin and tub girl were the internet images back in my day.

[Pepe]

Yeah, I think sometimes people forget just how mental the pressure is at those depths and how well engineered any vessel has to be to not be crushed.

I teach this shit every single year. I did not forget the relationship between pressure and depth.

[Pepe]

That's like saying jumping off a cliff isn't stupid because nobody has landed on the rocks yet. The obvious potential of it happening is what makes it stupid, not the eventuality of it actually happening. It was always a matter of time. The thing wasn't seaworthy.

Analyzing track record, which is what I asked for, is how we make most of our risk assessments, not by looking at "the obvious potential of [something bad] happening."

A better example than yours is bungee jumping. Jumping off a bridge with a rubber band attached to your legs has the obvious potential of death. If someone invited me to bungee jump and told me that I would be the fifth person to ever do it, I would definitely decline the offer. If a company tells me that hundreds of people have used their bungee jump for the last five years and there has never been an accident, then I would still decline, but that is because it does not interest me, not because I would be worried about my safety. Anyone jumping looked at the track record and determined the activity safe. No one is asking what governing body certified the ropes or whether the metal used for the harness is appropriate for the forces being exerted at the ticket booth.

Likewise, getting on an aluminum can that flies miles above the ground has the obvious potential of death. Yet when someone is scared of flying, you don't tell them not to worry, since X governing body certified the plane and the correct materials were used for the fasteners used to attach the wings. You tell them that, statistically, air travel is the safest form of travel and that they are more likely to die in a car crash. Without looking, I bet that you cannot tell me what material the last plane you flew on is made of, what governing body certified it, what are the safety features in place to ensure depressurization does not occur, what is the maintenance schedule of the engines, etc. Yet you hop on planes no problem, because they have a good track record.

As for this experimental submarine, same thing. If niko is right and this was its fifth trip, then I think that you need to be insane to get on that thing. But if someone told me that this gamepad-controlled submarine previously had 10,000 successful trips to the Titanic, then I still wouldn't do it because I cannot afford it and it doesn't really interest me, but I wouldn't be particularly worried about the safety of it, even though going underwater has obvious potential of something bad happening. Plus who knows, maybe the people that got on that thing actually did their due diligence, carefully analyzed the safety features of the submarine, and decided that the risk level was worth it.

[Shindig]

https://en.as.com/latest_news/how-many-expeditions-has-the-oceangate-submarine-made-to-the-titanic-when-were-they-n/

Honestly, it sounds like the Titanic dives were fraught with problems. The kind of service you offer to explorers as part of an expedition rather than tourists with the money. Fifth trip might not be too far off.

[Disco]

People are ignorant, they haven't forgotten about pressure at depth they just never thought about it for any length of time or made assumptions based on a film or what they think/assume should happen. You think about something underwater leaking and you think about water spraying through gaps and those little doors with a wheel on, it's understandable that you don't immediately think that it's going to boil your blood and turn you into a fine pink mist.

[-james-]

Analyzing track record, which is what I asked for, is how we make most of our risk assessments, not by looking at "the obvious potential of [something bad] happening."

A better example than yours is bungee jumping. Jumping off a bridge with a rubber band attached to your legs has the obvious potential of death. If someone invited me to bungee jump and told me that I would be the fifth person to ever do it, I would definitely decline the offer. If a company tells me that hundreds of people have used their bungee jump for the last five years and there has never been an accident, then I would still decline, but that is because it does not interest me, not because I would be worried about my safety. Anyone jumping looked at the track record and determined the activity safe. No one is asking what governing body certified the ropes or whether the metal used for the harness is appropriate for the forces being exerted at the ticket booth.

Likewise, getting on an aluminum can that flies miles above the ground has the obvious potential of death. Yet when someone is scared of flying, you don't tell them not to worry, since X governing body certified the plane and the correct materials were used for the fasteners used to attach the wings. You tell them that, statistically, air travel is the safest form of travel and that they are more likely to die in a car crash. Without looking, I bet that you cannot tell me what material the last plane you flew on is made of, what governing body certified it, what are the safety features in place to ensure depressurization does not occur, what is the maintenance schedule of the engines, etc. Yet you hop on planes no problem, because they have a good track record.

As for this experimental submarine, same thing. If niko is right and this was its fifth trip, then I think that you need to be insane to get on that thing. But if someone told me that this gamepad-controlled submarine previously had 10,000 successful trips to the Titanic, then I still wouldn't do it because I cannot afford it and it doesn't really interest me, but I wouldn't be particularly worried about the safety of it, even though going underwater has obvious potential of something bad happening. Plus who knows, maybe the people that got on that thing actually did their due diligence, carefully analyzed the safety features of the submarine, and decided that the risk level was worth it.

People are generally terrible at assessing risk, immediate emotional response has a huge skewing effect. It's why stuff like COVID being in the news 24/7 fucked so many people up or why a car attack being in the news makes everyone hate muzzies.

He's an extreme example but my dad thinks I'm mental for going sport climbing but will drive across the country without a seat belt on unless someone nags at him.

Telling someone who's scared of flying that planes never crash won't do much a lot of the time, my girlfriend is scared of heights so she's scared of being 30 thousand feet in the air by default.

[-james-]

People are ignorant, they haven't forgotten about pressure at depth they just never thought about it for any length of time or made assumptions based on a film or what they think/assume should happen. You think about something underwater leaking and you think about water spraying through gaps and those little doors with a wheel on, it's understandable that you don't immediately think that it's going to boil your blood and turn you into a fine pink mist.

Do you think it was instant? Breach occurs, everything collapses at once and they're all evaporated?

[Boydy]

Heights and flying aren't really the same fear. I hate heights but I'm fine with flying.

[Yevrah]

Not sure where the discussion is now but I don’t think anyone (or very few people) can comprehend what 380 times surface pressure actually feels like, and nor would I expect them to.

[Yevrah]

Do you think it was instant? Breach occurs, everything collapses at once and they're all evaporated?

100%. Only question that I think remains is when. Did they have hours/days of horror first?

[-james-]

100%. Only question that I think remains is when. Did they have hours/days of horror first?

That's what I meant. Were they aware something was wrong, or did something go wrong and it was lights out before they knew about it.

[Yevrah]

If they didn’t, it’s not the worst way to go as they still won’t have any memory/feeling of what happened, even if there’s an afterlife.

[Yevrah]

That's what I meant. Were they aware something was wrong, or did something go wrong and it was lights out before they knew about it.

It should be pretty obvious to tell from the debris I’d imagine, but not seen anyone mention much more on that.

[Gray Fox]

If the pressure chamber failed near the ocean floor, they'll have had at most, a split second, but they'll have been obliterated before they ever realised what was going on.

[Dark Soldier]

Let's make a sub to the destruction site of this sub we can have Mahow drive it and charge a mere 200k a pop lads

[Disco]

Them being alive for any length of time would mean the thing broke down then went pop later which seems less likely that it just getting crushed in an instant because of some structural failure. In which case they I don't think they would have known anything was even wrong, my only reference is things like vacuum tanks which go from fine to fucked instantly, it's not the kind of thing that only happens a little bit.

[Pepe]

Do you think it was instant? Breach occurs, everything collapses at once and they're all evaporated?

https://twitter.com/amstuart1994/status/1671917541831110656

Also, fluids (including blood) boil at higher temperatures as pressure increases. Can someone explain where the boiling blood is coming from? I guess everyone just got compacted and crushed into million of very tiny bits.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Let's make a sub to the destruction site of this sub we can have Mahow drive it and charge a mere 200k a pop lads

Only if I can bring a webcam lass with me.

[Pepe]

I'm guessing that everything gets hot enough, quick enough for boiling to occur. Still, that is not due to the pressure. Blood boiling is more likely to occur in space.

[Ian]

https://twitter.com/amstuart1994/status/1671917541831110656

Also, fluids (including blood) boil at higher temperatures as pressure increases. Can someone explain where the boiling blood is coming from? I guess everyone just got compacted and crushed into million of very tiny bits.

The Wiki page for the Byford Dolphin (I didn't google the photos, obviously) has this:
"The autopsy suggested that rapid bubble formation in the blood denatured the lipoprotein complexes, rendering the lipids insoluble.[3]: 101  The blood of the three divers left intact inside the chambers likely boiled instantly, stopping their circulation."

Whether the same has been said to happen on the Titan or if the people on here who knew about the former assumed the same happened on the latter I don't know. But again, presumably it all happens so quickly it's not a thing you really feel happening either way.

Still horrible, obviously.

[Pepe]

I don't know what a Byford Dolphin is, but it just occurred to me during lunch that at those pressures everything is probably just getting superheated.

EDIT: Having looked at the Dolphin incident, that one seems to be the opposite. They quickly went from 9 atms to 1 atm. In that case, boiling makes sense. I assume that in the Titanic one the opposite happened. They were inside the low pressure vessel, which either collapsed due to the high pressure outside of it or had a leak, which caused the pressure to quickly rise.

[Disco]

Byford was explosive decompression (or whatever) rather than an implosion, not that I could tell you much about the differences.

[Giggles]

Seen a slurry tanker collapse in once, goes in a blink and some whack off it.

[mo]

Something I (naively, I suppose) didn't expect to come out of all this is the existence of Titanic deniers.

[Giggles]

There's so much internet now that there's probably deniers of everything out there somewhere.

[Spikey M]

The world is just obsessed with absolute bollocks these days. It's incredible how the Internet has ruined society so quickly.

[Yevrah]

I wouldn’t mind if these theories at least had a reason behind them, like the moon landings one, but why would anybody claim a ship sank that didn’t? It’s the lack of critical thinking that really disappoints me with these people.

[Spikey M]

IIRC they think it's the Titanics sister ship, and they deliberately sank it as an insurance con. That's the conspiracy I've heard, anyway.

[Shindig]

Yeah, it doesn't make a whole lot sense because you wouldn't do that on a maiden voyage. With a full crew and passengers. It also falls apart because the Olympic had design differences you couldn't cover up.

Also, the Olympic was like ... in service doing a return journey when the Titanic sank.

[Disco]

Olympic being a bloodthirsty demon ship is the more fun theory.

[Shindig]

:nod:

It's never met a ship it hasn't thumped.

[niko_cee]

So, crushed to smithereens by the ocean or "ingested" (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66016948) [engested? :henn0rz:] by a jet engine?

:sick:

[Shindig]

You'd think those places would be so regimented to prevent ground staff being swallowed up like that.

[niko_cee]

Seems like he wanted it that way. :cab:

[Giggles]

This RTÉ stuff is glorious :drool:


1674459569290981394

[Ben]

French riots are ten a penny but this one is especially spicy.

Lions being set free from the zoos. :D

[Spikey M]

Fuck me :D

1674596674558218241?t=6H606tb5puiLqEAthBtPPQ&s=19

Shame it was filmed on a Nokia 3210.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The frogs really are a breed apart.

[Yevrah]

They definitely don’t do things by halves.

[Shindig]

I hope those lions become local celebrities. Like that walrus that was bothering people in Scarborough.

[Ben]

1674634932730335232

[wullie]

I speak as someone who's barely pruned a hedge, but if I was cutting down a tree or similar I like to think I'd keep an eye out for it falling on top of me.

[Yevrah]

Would I be right in assuming the police have gone in heavy handed as well and made things far worse?

[Spikey M]

Would I be right in assuming the police have gone in heavy handed as well and made things far worse?

They shot a teenager the other day, yeah.

[Yevrah]

I mean after that. :moop:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Who knows, but the issue at large is caused by France as a society treating immigrants like absolute shit for the last 70 years, in stout defence of the tarte tatin and whatever else. The British right don't know they're born on this stuff.

[Baz]

Nice that whoa is the same in French.

[Lofty]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-sussex-66088898

Is it even worth the pittance PCSOs get to bother with the job if you can't even be arsed attending incidents. Just get another job.

[Spikey M]

Southend has managed to one-up the pointlessness of PCSO's by rolling out "Street Rangers" in recent years.

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/5b516d_b5e432eeb86549f0adab4f087e2719f2~mv2.jpg/v1/fit/w_981%2Ch_659%2Cal_c%2Cq_80,enc_auto/file.jpg

[phonics]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-sussex-66088898

Is it even worth the pittance PCSOs get to bother with the job if you can't even be arsed attending incidents. Just get another job.

The types who become PCSOs are in it for the veneer of authority, not actually doing anything with it.

[Giggles]

Another waster gets rewarded for playing the anxiety card :rolleyes:


1677015528144003083

[Spikey M]

I think I'd let my business go bust before I paid a penny of that.

[Shindig]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-66119980

I bet that mouse can feel all sorts of pain.

[Spikey M]

1679481587895877634?t=fLsHjdPVg5sCSXbcE3Hhhg&s=19

Has Harvey finally twatted the insufferable bint?

[Disco]

I probably shouldn't be so amused by the idea of drawing a slightly longer train in order to take the record off him.

[Jimmy Floyd]

She looks like a Day of the Dead mannequin.

[Spikey M]

I probably shouldn't be so amused by the idea of drawing a slightly longer train in order to take the record off him.

Someone is absolutely going to do this and it's going to be great.

[Danny]

Dwight Yorke probably.

[Lewis]

:lol:

[Giggles]

By all accounts he could just draw one up the side of his cock and beat him.

[Boydy]

1679891002528776193

[Baz]

She probably insisted it was white and gold, so deserved it.

[Spikey M]

Witnesses said he beat her white and gold.

[mo]

Very good Spikey; shame Baz got in your way.

[Baz]

Indeed.

[Manc]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/16/mickey-mouse-news-agenda-bbc-presenter-scandal-rupert-murdoch-tory-sun-newspaper

Enjoyed this.

[Spikey M]

Eskimo faced fanny.

[niko_cee]

Moon faced cunt, surely?

Has anyone seen Basic Lee? I was trying to get to see it but the lazy shit only works term time now it would seem.

[Spikey M]

1680936899605585922?t=zmvV-iTxQu1ikEGsDpxQBg&s=19

Oh, we're doing this now, are we?

[Yevrah]

And in one fell swoop she's illustrated a key problem with awareness when it comes to mental health matters.

[Spikey M]

Well, I suppose it is hard to see a doctor these days, so it's probably easier this way.

Oi, RL, what diagnosis would give me access to the best drugs?

[Lewis]

Wouldn't that be actual mental illness rather than Mental Health? No chance you Talk to Your Mates yourself better with that.

[randomlegend]

Well, I suppose it is hard to see a doctor these days, so it's probably easier this way.

Oi, RL, what diagnosis would give me access to the best drugs?

Benzos are the only mental health drug you might want access to. The others are all various shades of grim. Not to say they don't do a lot of good in the right circumstances but you wouldn't take any of the others for fun.

Anxiety is what would have got you some in the past but benzo prescribing has been cracked down on hard.

[randomlegend]

Self-diagnosing tourettes is lol.

[Spikey M]

I partly agree, but then I have self diagnosed as schizophrenic, so that's to be expected.

[Lewis]

You could barely fit one reality up there.

[Ben]

:lol:

[Don]

1681589579520913410

Can't for the life of me work out how that accident has come about or how the protestor could be at fault but the things I'd do to be there and to troll the angry geezer :D all these JSO seethe videos are class so long may they continue.

[Giggles]

Beautiful, you love to see it. A few of them pushing up daisies is probably the only solution at this stage.

[Kikó]

I hope he serves a few months in prison for assault.

[Spikey M]

I have Daniel has a slow bleed on the brain.

[Dave.]

Self-diagnosing tourettes is fucking lol.

Adjusted for accuracy.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I would dispute that a blatant attempt to provoke members of the public, in order to draw attention to yourself, constitutes non-violent protest.

If everyone said 'Fair enough, they're making a good point!' and waited patiently behind the slow marchers, then they wouldn't gain any publicity. They only gain publicity when someone reacts. It's what they want.

[Lewis]

They should just treat the wider organisation as a criminal enterprise and sanction their funding etc.

[Manc]

I have Daniel has a slow bleed on the brain.

Not the only one judging by this post.

[-james-]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-66275913

This is great in the aftermath of him being liberal public enemy number 1 for saying a bunch of 4chan edgelord stuff in interviews and then shagging Taylor Swift for a bit. Way cooler than anything Lizzo or Harry Styles have ever done.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

1682451732922499072

:lol:

[Spikey M]

Too hot for them? It's about 20 degrees you vapid old tart.

[Don]

I felt like a fish trying to do some shopping today. What the fuck is this weather? You can't have this weather AND no football ffs.

[Ben]

I did wonder where she was going when it went from "illegally arrested" to "my grandson is coming over tonight" in the same sentence. :D

[Shindig]

The Stop Oil brigade would probably turn a corner if they dropped all this protest bullshit in favour of some actual eco-terrorism. Not the Ted Kaczynski kind but some mass tree plantings on private property or whatever. The kind of shit you can pull under the cover of darkness. If you're clever about it, nobody bats an eyelid and you probably get more greenery out of it than whatever the government is doing.

[John Arne]

I've just seen that there is a female to male trans player at the Women's World Cup. Doesn't this fly in the face of what trans athletes are trying to achieve? I guess the argument is that one person does not represent that "trans community", but it just seemed a bit odd to me.

EDIT: A quick Google and this player also advocates for female-to-male players being allowed to play in the women's game - so, basically... and, er....without sounding like Harold... they want anyone to play in any team - maybe that's ok, I'm not sure - I'm really out of my depth here.

[Baz]

I've just seen that there is a female to male trans player at the Women's World Cup. Doesn't this fly in the face of what trans athletes are trying to achieve? I guess the argument is that one person does not represent that "trans community", but it just seemed a bit odd to me.

EDIT: A quick Google and this player also advocates for female-to-male players being allowed to play in the women's game - so, basically... and, er....without sounding like Harold... they want anyone to play in any team - maybe that's ok, I'm not sure - I'm really out of my depth here.

https://s.hs-data.com/gfx/person/cropped/250x250/357462.png?

[Spikey M]

I gave up trying to keep up some time ago.

[Lewis]

If this is 'Quinn' then they're a woman calling themselves a bloke/not a woman, so, unless they're also juicing, they won't have any physical advantages.

[SincereTheRebel]

https://s.hs-data.com/gfx/person/cropped/250x250/357462.png?

Huh

[Baz]

If this is 'Quinn' then they're a woman calling themselves a bloke/not a woman, so, unless they're also juicing, they won't have any physical advantages.

Indeed. I tried to find out what they were called before the change and learned she was always called Rebecca Quinn and was never a man.

I might enter the grand national, identifying as a horse.

[Spikey M]

They'll realise your not a horse as soon as they see your dick.

[Baz]

They’ll think I’m a fossa. :cool:

[Shindig]

How are you going to clear those hurdles?

[Don]

I gave up trying to keep up some time ago.

Surely this is the only sane position to take. It bores me to deat. The discourse on the internal work social media is incredible when it gets a couple of nutters with entrenched positions involved. It's like watching English football from the black and white days, all passion and absolutely no substance.

[Yevrah]

My Mum and youngest Sister have gone full loon with it and recently rounded on my 13 year old nephew who's not having any of it, he apparently argued them both under the table to the point where the only recourse they had left was to say "you're too young to understand".

Amazing.

[Lewis]

1682129976185741312

That's the general level of the discourse. You can understand why the actual trannies delude themselves into thinking that there aren't any physical differences between men and women, because their entire worldview and sense of self depends on it, lest they wake up one day and realise; but for everybody else it's literally just vibes, and the type of person who will go on national telly and waffle like that is inherently untrustworthy and should be ridiculed everywhere they go.

[Ben]

It’ll be sport that brings common sense back into the argument. Some bloke will transition and absolutely destroy the field, then it’ll be feminists vs. trannies and there’s only one winner there.

[Yevrah]

It’ll be sport that brings common sense back into the argument. Some bloke will transition and absolutely destroy the field, then it’ll be feminists vs. trannies and there’s only one winner there.

You'd have thought so, but the feminists are losing hard at the moment. I mean, that's all JK Rowling is and she gets a shedload of unwarranted abuse. Even someone like Sharron Davies, who's only ever come at it from a sporting perspective, lost work, received loads of abuse and is only now finally being begun to be heard.

[Giggles]

It'll take some serious injuries to kids in a contact sport before all this horseshit ends.

[Yevrah]

That's the general level of the discourse. You can understand why the actual trannies delude themselves into thinking that there aren't any physical differences between men and women, because their entire worldview and sense of self depends on it, lest they wake up one day and realise; but for everybody else it's literally just vibes, and the type of person who will go on national telly and waffle like that is inherently untrustworthy and should be ridiculed everywhere they go.

You watch that and can't help but ask what the fuck is his motive? He's clearly an intelligent, articulate individual, yet there he is spouting absolute drivel to avoid the obvious. Stuff like that is deeply, deeply sinister.

[Yevrah]

It'll take some serious injuries to kids in a contact sport before all this horseshit ends.

According to Sharon Davies some parents are just taking their kids home if they rock up to an adolescent contact sport event where their girl will be up against a child who was born a boy with an obvious and huge physical advantage. Path of least resistance - you don't have to speak out and get labelled a transphobe.

[Lewis]

You watch that and can't help but ask what the fuck is his motive? He's clearly an intelligent, articulate individual, yet there he is spouting absolute drivel to avoid the obvious. Stuff like that is deeply, deeply sinister.

I genuinely can't wrap my head around it. I know the activists are an aggressive crowd (almost like men and/or mental cases), but how has it proliferated to such an extent that normal people like your mother and sister are advocating it in the privacy of their own home? I suppose the silver lining is that it wouldn't take much to change the vibe, and for people to go back to believing that they all knew to be obvious five minutes ago, but how you remove the incentives is the question.

[Yevrah]

I genuinely can't wrap my head around it. I know the activists are an aggressive crowd (almost like men and/or mental cases), but how has it proliferated to such an extent that normal people like your mother and sister are advocating it in the privacy of their own home? I suppose the silver lining is that it wouldn't take much to change the vibe, and for people to go back to believing that they all knew to be obvious five minutes ago, but how you remove the incentives is the question.

In the case of my Mum it's even more bizarre than I'd suggested above, in that she's been a proper feminist for decades and is now somehow waving anyone who'd like to be there into Women's sports under the insane belief that "Women are just as strong as Men". I tend to avoid the conversations, but at some point a family get together will arrive where I have one too many drinks and just go all in.

[Lewis]

At the work Christmas meal I made an obvious joke (but quite good, if I say so myself) about how the England football women had an easier tournament than the men 'because they only had to beat women', and it turns out that the women I work with - who are all reasonably intelligent, and aren't necessary retard leftists - genuinely believe that women can compete with men, and it's impossible for me to say otherwise because we've never seen elite women play elite men. What about sports where men and women compete against objective things like clocks and gravity, and women are still absolutely nowhere near? In those cases the women are worse because they haven't been exposed to the levels of competition necessary to improve.

Mental. Maybe that is it, and people simply don't realise the extent of the strength differences between men and women, and people brought up on films where women beat bad guys up with ease will snap out of it once we sacrifice a few girls to severe spinal injuries.

[Yevrah]

At the work Christmas meal I made an obvious joke (but quite good, if I say so myself) about how the England football women had an easier tournament than the men 'because they only had to beat women', and it turns out that the women I work with - who are all reasonably intelligent, and aren't necessary retard leftists - genuinely believe that women can compete with men, and it's impossible for me to say otherwise because we've never seen elite women play elite men. What about sports where men and women compete against objective things like clocks and gravity, and women are still absolutely nowhere near? In those cases the women are worse because they haven't been exposed to the levels of competition necessary to improve.


That's the stuff. "They haven't had the same opportunities due to the patriarchy", "Could you win the Women's 100m", are a couple of other crackers I've heard.

The other thing is as well is, if one was to say "The elite Men in one sport are better than the elite Women in that same sport", (as you say) an inarguable fact in something like the 100m, what's actually heard is "Men are better than Women".

[AJ23]

It's the women that are real man haters who make me laugh. I once went on a date and she turned up 30 minutes late. After 15 minutes and a few unanswered whatsapp messages, I decided to go to the pub by myself so I couldn't give a shit if she turned up after that or not. When she finally contacted me and ended up at the bar across the road from the tube station I said I didn't hear from you to say that you were going to be late. All of a sudden she had this stern teacher look on her face and went into a mad one. 'Oh here we go *roll eyes* I AM BEING MANSPLAINED TO! I am a feminist so as a woman we have a right to do what we want! This isn't the 80s anymore where you men can control us!'. Completely taken aback, I explained that it wasn't a man v woman thing, just good manners if you're meeting anyone to let them know you're running late.

Anyway that was too crazy for me to pursue further and after an awkward drink to see if things improved, I decided to call it a night.

I've seen a lot of things written on the internet where women truly believe they can survive without men in this world and whenever a man passes away, they say 'Good. Another one gone'. It's all gone completely bonkers with feminists and trans people running social media and influencing the next generation. Are their dad, brothers, uncles and grandads all bad men? Surely not. 99 percent of plumbers are males. Who is going to dive into a sewer or shove their hand in a pile of shit to clear a blockage when all the men are gone? There are so many jobs that must be done by men to keep the world turning. If you want to really stump a feminist though, ask them who invented the tampon...

[Spikey M]

AndrewJTate23

[Don]

In contrast, a discourse I absolutely do love to come across at every opportunity:

https://www.voice-online.co.uk/news/uk-news/2023/07/23/outrage-over-bus-fare-arrest-of-mum/

1683133838216646657

I fucking love it.

[Spikey M]

My wife works with someone who's husband works in Armed Response for the Met. The geezer is an absolute fanny. And we're talking wearing combat trousers to barbecues levels of fannydom.

The police force is just largely unworkable, because the people that would want to do it are generally the last people that everyone else would want to do it.

Which leaves the question of what alternative there is, and, well... fuck knows.

[Don]

Once the above body worn camera footage is released these BLMs will go into hiding hard. The fucking original footage they're holding up is enough to show the bitch deserves all she gets.

[Yevrah]

I wish there were cops like that around whenever I treat myself to a first class rail ticket.

[Lewis]

Once the above body worn camera footage is released these BLMs will go into hiding hard. The fucking original footage they're holding up is enough to show the bitch deserves all she gets.

They won't, because a lot of them believe that black people should just be allowed to do whatever they want at all times (see: the female voice in this (https://twitter.com/CrimeLdn/status/1683166452344389632)).

[Lofty]

https://boysvswomen.com/#/

Surely this just lols all the 'women are as strong as men at sport' arguments out of the window?

[Pepe]

See the lack of opportunities above, mate.

[Don]

They won't, because a lot of them believe that black people should just be allowed to do whatever they want at all times (see: the female voice in this (https://twitter.com/CrimeLdn/status/1683166452344389632)).

Christ :D

[Lofty]

See the lack of opportunities above, mate.

I am waiting for the same tits who tried to snark me about the Lionesses Euro success to come if there is a successful world cup run despite not caring about football or even watching their matches last time. I'm pretty sure the England Women's team likely enjoys massive privilege and opportunity over the majority of their opponents (far more than the men)so be fun watching their heads explode with that counter argument.

[Jimmy Floyd]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-66286800

As with the Qatar World Cup, if you don't like how a country deals with this stuff then the best thing you can do is not fucking go there. These people are so arrogant and unable to resist money.

[Yevrah]

"I hate this white saviour complex of people coming to regions like Southeast Asia - with no prior research whatsoever to what the culture is, or the repercussions of doing acts like this - and ruining it not for them but for the people who actually live here."

Nail on head right there I feel. The twat even said "I'll take your money".

[Yevrah]

And also, what's Matt Healy doing about all of the people in the UK who share those views?

[Spikey M]

I don't know anything about the bloke, but he sounds like a culture-war version of a bloke wearing half and half kit.


Healy - who has a history of derogatory comments about women and minorities - launched into a tirade against Malaysia's anti-LGBT laws and kissed his bandmate in protest.

He had already been drinking on stage and destroyed a drone belonging to concert organisers. Attendees reported him spitting on fans.

Team Woke or Team Gammon. Does he care or does he not give a fuck? Pick a side mate.

[Don]

In related matters, this was good:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jul/25/bbc-apologises-lgbtq-rights-question-morocco-captain-womens-world-cup

[Baz]

Do they purposely not name the reporter?

[Don]

Of course. I too wanted to find this out. I'm guessing thick-rimmed glasses and a neckbeard.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Asking a professional about the sexual orientations of their team is absolutely fucking ridiculous.

[Yevrah]

With that it's now reached the stage (if it hadn't already) where none of this stuff should be anywhere near sport.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I think it's fair to (for example) question whether FIFA should hold a major global event in a place where 5-10 percent of people are basically contraband for their sexuality and many others are oppressed as migrant workers. I'm sure Arabs would answer that question with a furious yes they should, while I would give a furious no. However it is completely unfair to make the political personal, especially given they are in Australia where none of this is a problem at all. It's an unintelligent reporter thinking that this is how you get a story.

[Yevrah]

I think it's fair to (for example) question whether FIFA should hold a major global event in a place where 5-10 percent of people are basically contraband for their sexuality and many others are oppressed as migrant workers. I'm sure Arabs would answer that question with a furious yes they should, while I would give a furious no. However it is completely unfair to make the political personal, especially given they are in Australia where none of this is a problem at all. It's an unintelligent reporter thinking that this is how you get a story.

I would have agreed with your opening sentence previously, but as time's worn on I fail to see how this is helping anyone - we're still massively invested in the Arab World, our own countries have people in them that hold those views and it's become abundantly clear that sportspeople don't actually give a shit. I still agree with putting pressure on (say Qatar) before the tournament, but as soon as the event's on, just concentrate on why everyone is there. As it is it's just comes across as the West preaching to these "un-enlightened backwaters" (amazing given how many years we spent defending the beliefs of Muslims in our own countries), which I would imagine achieves fuck all at best and at worst (as in that link) is actively putting people at risk.

[phonics]

Look Jimmy. What Yev's saying is you need to know your place because we have to sell them some missiles.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Us being money-addicted hypocrites doesn't mean we shouldn't still ask the question, at least to ourselves. I know a lot of people in the Arab world became terribly upset by it, but I see that as their problem, they're free to ask questions about us and do so every day, as I can attest from my mate in the office telling me that BBC News is fake and I should be watching the Iranian channels.

[Yevrah]

Look Jimmy. What Yev's saying is you need to know your place because we have to sell them some missiles.

One way to look at what I'm saying... the other would be that we have a long and checkered history of attempting regime change and it never works. It's better we're not doing it with bullets this time but either way, we're still not going to achieve it unless the people there want to do it themselves.

I would personally rather we weren't anywhere near these things, so I'd suggest if we were that bothered we shouldn't go, which, you know, might actually achieve something. Instead, we're doing the same thing every time and expecting a different result.

[phonics]

Well sadly, Yev, you're not in charge so we'll just muddle along and you can snipe from the sidelines about how anyone doing anything is all pointless unless your exact viewpoint is catered to.

[Yevrah]

Us being money-addicted hypocrites doesn't mean we shouldn't still ask the question, at least to ourselves.

We've asked it and the answer was a resounding "we don't care enough to do anything about it so let's virtue signal instead".

[Yevrah]

Well sadly, Yev, you're not in charge so we'll just muddle along and you can snipe from the sidelines about how anyone doing anything is all pointless unless your exact viewpoint is catered to.

I'd prefer we did things that actually work, but maybe I'm just too pragmatic.

[phonics]

Who is 'we'? You're somehow equating that Global Finance, The Military Industrial Complex and Jimmy are all supposed to have the same amount of power and say in matters.

[Boydy]

Iran could well have been an actual democracy by now if we'd left well enough alone.

Edit: missed we'd gone on to a new page

[Yevrah]

Who is 'we'? You're somehow equating that Global Finance, The Military Industrial Complex and Jimmy are all supposed to have the same amount of power and say in matters.

I'd suggest it's pretty obvious who the we I'm referring to is and to add, I've no idea why you'd think I'm suggesting Jimmy has the same power as the MOD. I know his Dad is connected, but c'mon.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Pleased to say it's fucking stupid animal-related story season, and already signs that it's going to be a bumper year:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-66299587 PARROT TERRIFIED ON MOUNTAIN
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp37z4nyg6no DEER RUN THROUGH HOSPITAL
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-66289812 OWLS REMOVED FROM MAN'S CUSTODY
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-66292235 DOGS SHOULD BE TREATED EQUALLY TO PEOPLE, SAY MORONS
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66268558 LION ON THE LOOSE TURNS OUT TO BE A BOAR

There was something about pigs being lured out of a ditch the other day as well, but I can't find it now.

[Lewis]

I'd prefer we did things that actually work, but maybe I'm just too pragmatic.

What worked for decades was leaving shit countries to be shit and not attaching western morality to global sporting events. Let's try that again.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Leaving shit countries to be shit also means leaving their money alone, which we are clearly not prepared to do. If you do that then you get all the baggage. Can't pick and choose.

[Lewis]

Of course you can. Having business dealings with these people doesn't mean we get to lecture them any more than they get to lecture us.

[Spikey M]

The Saudis are in for an interesting century, because there's no way you transition your economy from 100% oil to 100% Western sports and popular culture without massive cultural change. The Wahabi mob are going to love Sam Smiths 2038 tour. I can see a civil war / coup on the cards at some point.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I remember my comparative politics geezer at SOAS, in about 2009, saying that Saudi Arabia would turn into a popular holiday destination and then collapse in on itself. Halfway there. He was a clever fucker, that guy. Spent his spare time jetting off to shit countries to help them write their constitutions.

[Lofty]

Aliens exist, no-one cares:

https://youtu.be/XO8Dlw_nUto

[Shindig]

Non-human biological material is not necessarily alien. The Russians sent monkeys and dogs up.

[Lewis]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66300209

What are the odds that a person who finds a body, something which can't happen to more than a handful of people a year, is the sort of person who would think to molest and hide it? It must be in the millions to one. The Telegraph said he had originally denied it and told police that he was at a 'complete loss' why his DNA was in thirty-nine places all over her body. Yeah mate that should work. What proof have they got?

Speaking of which, they also reported that the Randrew-looking killer spent the following evening Googling 'How to get nosy police officers to stop monitoring your phone'. I love those revelations. They really reinforce the fact that most of these people are just out-and-out retards.

[Don]

Proper gammon family that :D

[Spikey M]

That's fucking grim. :sick:

[Shindig]

So she was put in care, raped when she was alive (see the related stories), killed by her brother and then fiddled by a wandering necrononce. Fuck.

[Lofty]

Non-human biological material is not necessarily alien. The Russians sent monkeys and dogs up.

Surely after a few thousand years of animal husbandry and domesticated dogs they would know a burnt animal corpse when they find one?

[Disco]

They brought pretty much all of them back anyway so that would seem a long shot.

[Ben]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66333488


The Ministry of Defence has launched an investigation after emails containing classified information were sent to a close ally of Russia in a typing error.

The emails were intended for the US military, which uses the domain name ".mil".

But they missed out the letter i, and so the messages went instead to the West African nation of Mali.

:D

[Jimmy Floyd]

If I were in the Malian secret service I would definitely set up email addresses such as chiefofdefencestaff@usmilitary.ml, potus@whitehouse.ml, and so on, and have them monitored at all times.

[Lewis]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66326656

What am I missing here? It seems like a sensible policy, so unless they messed her about and didn't follow it properly, what possible claim can she have?

[randomlegend]

It's a stupid policy.

[Baz]

Imagine if everywhere had that policy. :cool: Separate the wheat from the chaff.

[Shindig]

Nah, you need a mix. Up Cop, Down Cop.

[-james-]

1684993272815464448

Is this real or is he doing a bit? I genuinely can't tell.

[Lofty]

He sounds like Jimmy Savile :D

I don't think it's a daft policy to screen people with mental health issues out of high pressure, challenging roles. Not like getting told to fuck off and nutted by a chav is gonna improve her mental health.

[Don]

That is sensational :D

[randomlegend]

I don't think it's a daft policy to screen people with mental health issues out of high pressure, challenging roles. Not like getting told to fuck off and nutted by a chav is gonna improve her mental health.

"2 years off anti-depressants" is a stupid, arbitrary rule which won't remotely achieve the intended goal.

Someone who has been on an anti-depressant for 10 years with no recurrence of their symptoms is likely to be perfectly fine in such a role. Someone with untreated significant depression is not. What this policy does is encourages someone who has mental health problems but who wants to join the police to conceal it and not get treatment. It's idiotic.

[Shindig]

Is this real or is he doing a bit? I genuinely can't tell.

It really does sound like a punchline.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yeah, that's a gag. And a rib-tickler too.

[Spikey M]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66352286

:happycry:

[Boydy]

Ahahahahahahaha.

The UK is so shit.

[Boydy]

1685539438024155136

[Yevrah]

I mean, that just isn't true, is it?

[Yevrah]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66352286

:happycry:

Which isn't to say this isn't a total omni-shambles.

[Yevrah]

I can't even read that article, but its opening sentence is laughably stupid - in what way is Eastern Europe catching up with our GDP? Does he mean all of Eastern Europe combined? It's a joke article right?

[Boydy]

Here's the article: https://archive.is/LEZSl

[Lewis]

A lot of the high-speed rail costs have come about due to regulatory burdens and pissing about with enormous tunnels to preserve the view of empty fields, so we've basically done that to ourselves. See also: two thirds of the cost of Hinkley Point C being finance costs because the government wouldn't just build it with a tiny percentage of its annual spending.

[Yevrah]

Here's the article: https://archive.is/LEZSl

Cheers Boyd, I'll have a proper look later, but for a kick off GDP per Capita can be a massively misleading measure. See Ireland and Luxembourg being the top two and Germany behind Andorra. China are also 73rd on the (IMF) list, one place behind Belarus.

[Lofty]

Everyone in the rail industry knew HS2 was a knacker as soon as it was announced, it's just a brown envelope project for the lads at the top table.

[Lofty]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66340991

:D

[niko_cee]

Yeah, all of these satellite London councils bankrupting themselves with get rich quick schemes is a first class bit of central government trolling. Another brilliant coalition legacy.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-66362970

I'm convinced.

[Spikey M]

There was a British zoo keeper on the radio earlier and she said that it is a real Sun Bear, the saggy arse is normal and they're all creepy human-in-a-bear-suit acting cunts.

[Shindig]

The camera's not doing the bear any favours but it's legit.

[randomlegend]

Sun bears are too small to be a man in a suit.

[Bernanke]

Sun bears are too small to be a man in a suit.

We are talking Chinamen, to be fair.