News of the day

[Pepe]

If true that tops everything.

Have a lol:

https://www.pscp.tv/w/1OwxWkwZzdpxQ

[thommo]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-50079716

I mean, what did they think would happen? Stopping the tube at 7am on a weekday, at Canning Town of all places.

[Giggles]

The should have been threw out under the next train.

[Ian]

Think of the disruption that would have caused. They'd be martyrs.

[Lewis]

That's quality. The police would still be putting the scaffolding up.

[Shindig]

Tube trains are electric, right?

[Lewis]

1184913225579675648

[Giggles]

:D

That's about as loud a cheer as I let out myself when I was watching it this morning.

[Yevrah]

:D Where was that?

[Giggles]

:D Where was that?

I'd say it's footage from a world cup game or something originally.

[Yevrah]

Fake celeb porn must be amazing these days.

[Baz]

Fake celeb porn must be amazing these days.

MrDeepFakes.com

[Spikey M]

:D Where was that?

:face:

[Ian]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-50209571

That may as well just be a generic white dude template from a video game character creator.

[Danny]

A step above FM but we are on the right track.

[Spikey M]

Yeah, but will they do a special Movember version of him?

[Kikó]

Why is he not wearing a poppy?

[Pepe]

https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/woman-furiously-shits-on-floor-of-tim-hortons-throws-i-1826082960

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

:sick:

[Spikey M]

:lol:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I was lolling until I saw the video.

[Ian]

Why would you watch a video when you know it's of somebody having a shit?

[Spikey M]

Why wouldn't you?

[mugbull]

Our current understanding is that the Team Member used their discretion in this case and denied access to this Guest based on past behaviour and out of concern for the immediate safety of Team Members and Guests in the Restaurant

Probably a junkie using the bathroom to shoot up or something. She looks pretty attractive tho, so I dunno.

[Giggles]

It's been a few days.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/1030/1087498-kayla-whelan/

If only the gravel had been the un-loose kind.

[bruhnaldo]

What in the fuck.

[Ian]

It's been a few days.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/1030/1087498-kayla-whelan/

If only the gravel had been the un-loose kind.

Is Ireland worse for this than the UK or am I just not look at sites that show these sorts of stories?

[Giggles]

It is. It's just ran amok in the last few years. Any tip in a car at all or anything and you're looking at an easy 10-15k.

[Spikey M]

I remember when the US used to be a laughing stock for this shit. It's everywhere now. It can't just be a case of 'shit happens', there has to be blame and claim.

[Yevrah]

Nice to see Obama calling this bullshit out.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50239261

[Disco]

people who do really good stuff have flaws

Announcing Cosby 2020!

[Baz]

Michelle Obama is so fit :drool:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/1198560/ITV-GMB-World-War-II-WW2-mental-health-millennials-fury-Sir-Michael-Wilshaw-video

Bentley claimed there were greater things in the world to worry about than reflecting on history and the teachings were affecting youngster’s mental health.

:face:

[Lewis]

I only ever see these things that supposedly spark FURY and OUTRAGE through the articles reporting on the FURY/OUTRAGE. It's literally the only way I find out about what Katie Hopkins has done and said recently.

[Shindig]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-50242981


'Short guys often complain that it's hard to find a woman - I've never felt that way'
Robert 5ft 1in (pictured above, with an ex) :D

[Spikey M]

Do you think she knows he isn't a lesbian?

[Queenslander]

In the first recorded instance of fire being used by animals other than humans, three Australian birds of prey species have been seen carrying burning twigs to set new blazes. John Pickrell reports.





https://cosmosmagazine.com/biology/australian-raptors-start-fires-to-flush-out-prey?fbclid=IwAR22NuUrCYUjg6PBqghLnBmu7pvOsyPZ96qw XnS8o80u7RJmC_ownR84tWw

[Spikey M]

Literally every animal over there wants to kill you.

[Queenslander]

To be fair we need a population cull down here.

[Shindig]

That's concerning. Like, burning down their habitat and ruining the planet for us. Bastards.

[Ian]

Oh the "humans don't cause climate change" crew will love that.

[Queenslander]

Considering how divided climate change is down here it is a good bit for them to go off on.

[Yevrah]

That is remarkable and demonstrates entirely why we (humans) don't really give a shit either.

[Kikó]

Speak for yourself.

[randomlegend]

That is remarkable and demonstrates entirely why we (humans) don't really give a shit either.

Wut

[phonics]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-50242981

:D

The way Twitter crops the photo is perfect.

https://i.imgur.com/x13H8Sd.png

[Spikey M]

:lol:

[Yevrah]

Wut

We're animals and we do what makes life immediately convenient for us.

[Yevrah]

Speak for yourself.

I'll look forward to those carbon targets being met.

[Lewis]

I bet 'Daws' has the largest carbon footprint here.

[Pepe]

As long as he 'cares' though.

[Spikey M]

He's swimming to his conference in Amsterdam.

[Lewis]

He's got The Group biking/walking to work to offset his emissions.

[Lewis]

'Could one of you lads maybe give up meat for six weeks? Me and the wife could really use a cheeky city break, and...'

[Pepe]

:lol:

[randomlegend]

We're animals and we do what makes life immediately convenient for us.

Birds don't even have a concept of convenience or consequences. Or climate change.

[Disco]

All the people travelling to those meets for a start.

[Yevrah]

Birds don't even have a concept of convenience or consequences. Or climate change.

Let's say I agree with all of those, what's your point?

[Pepe]

I used to 'care' a lot (not enough to do anything differently, of course) but then I carefully went over the IPCC report(s) and now I 'care' much less, since all the REALLY BAD STUFF that the media tells you will most definitely happen in the next twenty years unless we completely change everything we do is simply not based on anything 'the scientists' have said. The bad stuff that the reports say might happen doesn't actually seem all that bad to me. Not worse than making rash decisions that might lead to decreased economic output, at least.

[Spikey M]

I only care because snow is cool, heatwaves are shit and now - because of fucking Kiko - we get barely any of the former and far too many of the latter. Meatheaded cunt.

[Yevrah]

Putting denial vs scaremongering to one side and assuming that we're fucked if we don't meet the targets, then the rub of all this can be perfectly summed up in this graph:

https://i.postimg.cc/MKn0nn0N/Untitled.jpg (https://postimg.cc/BXGPyQVB)

In order to limit temperature increases to between 1.5 and 2.0 degrees we need to cut 2017 carbon emission levels by 45% within 10 years from now maximum. The even worse news? Some estimates have the carbon emissions on a run rate as high as 42b tonnes for 2019. Great progress so far I'm sure you'll agree.

Now I appreciate I come across as a uncaring wanker at times, which may be true to some degree, but it stems from having a realistic and pragmatic approach to most things and that same approach to that graph and the numbers following on from it tells me we are fucked, completely fucked when it comes to meeting these targets. They are simply not going to be met by the current approach.

And then I ask myself the next question, why aren't we going to meet them? And the only answer is that 'we', as a collective, don't care enough to do anything about it. If any of you have any evidence that shows we do care, that can explain a 20% increase in carbon emissions from 2017-2019, going completely the wrong way towards a 45% targeted reduction, then I'm all ears.

[Shindig]

I went out in a small jacket yesterday. In November. That's fucked.

[John]

I went out in a small jacket yesterday. In November. That's fucked.

You can't blame being a manlet on climate change.

[Giggles]

Even if it’s all real, we don’t need to worry about it.

[randomlegend]

Let's say I agree with all of those, what's your point?

That what birds do has nothing to do with why humans do what they do because the context is so spectacularly different.

[Kikó]

Putting denial vs scaremongering to one side and assuming that we're fucked if we don't meet the targets, then the rub of all this can be perfectly summed up in this graph:

https://i.postimg.cc/MKn0nn0N/Untitled.jpg (https://postimg.cc/BXGPyQVB)

In order to limit temperature increases to between 1.5 and 2.0 degrees we need to cut 2017 carbon emission levels by 45% within 10 years from now maximum. The even worse news? Some estimates have the carbon emissions on a run rate as high as 42b tonnes for 2019. Great progress so far I'm sure you'll agree.

Now I appreciate I come across as a uncaring wanker at times, which may be true to some degree, but it stems from having a realistic and pragmatic approach to most things and that same approach to that graph and the numbers following on from it tells me we are fucked, completely fucked when it comes to meeting these targets. They are simply not going to be met by the current approach.

And then I ask myself the next question, why aren't we going to meet them? And the only answer is that 'we', as a collective, don't care enough to do anything about it. If any of you have any evidence that shows we do care, that can explain a 20% increase in carbon emissions from 2017-2019, going completely the wrong way towards a 45% targeted reduction, then I'm all ears.

Agree with this. We are not doing enough so ultimately humanity will be buggered in the next 100 years.

[Pepe]

No, it won't.

[mugbull]

You can say that all you want but once Bangladesh goes underwater and and India erupts into civil war it's gonna be impossible to roll back.

[Kikó]

No, it won't.

So it's just scaremongering?

[Lewis]

Who cares if Bangladesh sinks into the sea? We'll just fence the West off and sorry lads last orders was thirty years ago.

[Kikó]

Do you actually believe that?

[Lewis]

I'm not sat here lolling at the thought of it, but if/when push comes to shove that's what will happen. We aren't going to take billions of people in.

[Pepe]

So it's just scaremongering?

Saying that humanity will be fucked in 100 years, in my opinion, is.

Some places will get nicer, some places will get much worse, but it will all slowly happen. It is not like Bangladesh will one day be under water. They have been struggling with continuous floods for decades, and the rest of us are still fine. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to be a poor farmer living over there, but even if we were to suddenly stop all sea level rise, they are still poor and vulnerable to any weather event. A solar panel won't save them. Economic development would, yet that one tends to go against first world environmentalists desires, so they are screwed either way.

[Kikó]

How's this world going to look then if/when mass migration has to occur? No idea what's going to happen to food supply lines with the mass extinction occuring. Could be properly ugly scenes.

[Lewis]

The population projections of half of these countries make me think they will have torn themselves to pieces long before the tide comes in anyway.

[Kikó]

Saying that humanity will be fucked in 100 years, in my opinion, is.

Some places will get nicer, some places will get much worse, but it will all slowly happen. It is not like Bangladesh will one day be under water. They have been struggling with continuous floods for decades, and the rest of us are still fine. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to be a poor farmer living over there, but even if we were to suddenly stop all sea level rise, they are still poor and vulnerable to any weather event. A solar panel won't save them. Economic development would, yet that one tends to go against first world environmentalists desires, so they are screwed either way.

Cheers.

For me it depends on how the world responds to the change in temperature and how much of nature it takes out.

[Yevrah]

That what birds do has nothing to do with why humans do what they do because the context is so spectacularly different.

You're making the same mistake that so many people do, that because we have opposable thumbs, drink latte and read the Guardian we're somehow on a different level to the rest of nature. We're not. If we were, then we'd be on the way to a 45% reduction instead of making it worse.

[Pepe]

Cheers.

For me it depends on how the world responds to the change in temperature and how much of nature it takes out.

I do agree that how much resources we decide to just blast through without much planning (arable land, freshwater, fossil fuels, etc.) will ultimately decide how fucked we are (or how quickly we fuck off). I guess my main issue with climate change is that it just eats everything up in terms of conversation with some sort of weird fatalistic view and very specific targeting of electricity generation. How we use our resources is a major long-term issue, climate change or not. Changing weather makes everything worse, yes, but I don't think that it is the main factor. Take Bangladesh again. Their bigger issue is being poor as fuck, not a 2 vs 3 degree raise in temperatures.

My prediction is that when 2100 hits, all countries that are 'nice' now will still be nice. Some 'shitholes' will be less so, while some will probably be completely reshaped.

[Pepe]

If we were, then we'd be on the way to a 45% reduction instead of making it worse.

If we were on our way to 45% reduction within the time ranges that the media claims 'scientists' claim we should, we would be much worse.

[Lewis]

Yeah, power generation is a weird fixation. Even if you could solar power the entire third world some sort of decent economic foundations to build upon, once they started to expect something for that growth wouldn't producing and utilising the amount of concrete and steel required to replace all of the bamboo/mud huts and dirt roads negate those savings?

[randomlegend]

You're making the same mistake that so many people do, that because we have opposable thumbs, drink latte and read the Guardian we're somehow on a different level to the rest of nature. We're not.

Yes, we are. Arguing the opposite is completely moronic.

[Yevrah]

Yes, we are. Arguing the opposite is completely moronic.

Deep down we're not.

All the nice things we have might give the illusion of being so, but trust me, if things get difficult on a worldwide scale, truly difficult, it will be clear to all that we're not.

[Pepe]

Yeah, power generation is a weird fixation. Even if you could solar power the entire third world some sort of decent economic foundations to build upon, once they started to expect something for that growth wouldn't producing and utilising the amount of concrete and steel required to replace all of the bamboo/mud huts and dirt roads negate those savings?

Don't forget all that delicious meat they will expect to (and deserve to, imo) eat.

[mugbull]

Places like Shanghai and Miami can build effective seawalls or something, Dhaka won't and even a selfish prick has incentive to care about preventing inexorable social collapse in a nuclear-armed nation.

There's plenty of other examples too, it's not just the subcontinent

[Pepe]

Places like Shanghai and Miami can build effective seawalls or something, Dhaka won't

We would have said the same about Shanghai thirty years ago. Poverty is Dhaka's main issue, not coal.

[mugbull]

And the flooding of the nation won't be an issue in helping them out of poverty?

[Pepe]

Rich countries deal with floods better than poor countries do. Remember all the paranoia surrounding Harvey? Didn't it kill less than 100 people? Any minor storm kills more than that every year in México. Point being, if you want people in Dhaka to be fine, you are better off helping them become rich, not trying to force them to stop building coal power plants.

[randomlegend]

Deep down we're not.

All the nice things we have might give the illusion of being so, but trust me, if things get difficult on a worldwide scale, truly difficult, it will be clear to all that we're not.

You're making the mistake of anthropomorphising animal behaviour by attributing human-level concepts to their decision-making and then saying "look, humans are the same!"

Whether we engage in shitty behaviours or not doesn't make us the 'same as the animals', because they don't even have any concept that there is such a thing as shitty behaviour, or convenience, or whatever else. If we act like cunts we know it; that's a totally different decision making process.

But I'm probably being a boring nobend so that'll probably do.

[mugbull]

Rich countries deal with floods better than poor countries do. Remember all the paranoia surrounding Harvey? Didn't it kill less than 100 people? Any minor storm kills more than that every year in México. Point being, if you want people in Dhaka to be fine, you are better off helping them become rich, not trying to force them to stop building coal power plants.

That's exactly my point. Lol.

[Pepe]

Glad we are in agreement then. Try to be more clear next time. Lol or something.

[Shindig]

Had a quick look to see how much damage forest fires have done to the US. 7 million acres a year. 700 miles of the Amazon was chopped down this year alone. It's a fucking impossible task to make up that deficit on charity alone.

[John Arne]

Birds don't even have a concept of convenience or consequences. Or climate change.

Not sure I agree with this.
A bird will fly the most direct path from A to B - because it is the most convenient - they may not understand the concept of convenience, but they surely understand the practicality. Same with consequence - if you drop bird seed into the middle of a pack of foxes - they aint going to go get it - as they understand they will be torn apart. Bird arent completely braindead.

[Queenslander]

Had a quick look to see how much damage forest fires have done to the US. 7 million acres a year. 700 miles of the Amazon was chopped down this year alone. It's a fucking impossible task to make up that deficit on charity alone.

Queensland farmers would clear every tree left if they had the chance.

https://www.smh.com.au/environment/conservation/queensland-landholders-warned-of-massive-fines-over-exempt-land-clearing-20190523-p51qj3.html

The scumbags in North QLD and the chinese will have left us with massive deadspots visable from space at the end of this shit show. Fucking rednecks are a different species.

[randomlegend]

Not sure I agree with this.
A bird will fly the most direct path from A to B - because it is the most convenient - they may not understand the concept of convenience, but they surely understand the practicality. Same with consequence - if you drop bird seed into the middle of a pack of foxes - they aint going to go get it - as they understand they will be torn apart. Bird arent completely braindead.

I don't disagree with anything you've said but it doesn't disagree with the point I'm making either.

[Spikey M]

I can't believe RL is actually having to have this argument.

[John Arne]

I can't believe RL is actually having to have this argument.

For what it's worth, I agree with RL - just not on the specific point about birds :D

[Jimmy Floyd]

I think Yevrah's initial post was more artistic/philosophical than an attempt at hard-nosed scientific analysis of the similarities between humans and birds.

[John Arne]

I think Yevrah's initial post was more artistic/philosophical than an attempt at hard-nosed scientific analysis of the similarities between humans and birds.

We don't have beaks, either.

[Pepe]

Tried to fly this morning. Broke my arm. Thanks Yevrah.

[Queenslander]

Great news! And again another article that is really drawing out the wife beaters.


It would make the Matildas the first female team in world football to be guaranteed equal pay to their male counterparts
https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-05/matildas-and-socceroos-to-earn-equal-pay/11671102?pfmredir=sm

[Giggles]

When they play the same standard as men they should get the same pay as men.

[Queenslander]

When they play the same standard as men they should get the same pay as men.

:D Let's be honest the Socceroos are shithouse.

Plenty of people pay money to watch the Matidas and it is easily the most popular female sport in Australia.

[mugbull]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50297794

The way this article is written makes it seem like she'd been adrift for 3 months. 2 days :D

[randomlegend]

Mogg should be sacked for those Grenfell comments, absolutely fucking shameful. If any more evidence were needed he's a sociopath then that's it.

[Giggles]

A combined 20 years, if even that, for what they did to her is disgraceful. But at least the judge can rest easy in his mansion away from such annoyances.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/1105/1088699-kriegel-sentencing/

[randomlegend]

They are children. It is in everyone's interest to give them an opportunity to reform and live a different life as adults, desire for vengeance aside.

[Giggles]

They are children. It is in everyone's interest to give them an opportunity to reform and live a different life as adults, desire for vengeance aside.

Through the whole thing they have had zero remorse for any of it. At that stage they should never see daylight again but in this age a lot of people seem to always have more sympathy for the perpetrators than the victim. Remember, she was a child herself and there's no reform for her.

[SvN]

I guess it comes down to the larger question of the purpose of the justice system. I think there's still hope for kids of that age to reform.

[randomlegend]

Through the whole thing they have had zero remorse for any of it. At that stage they should never see daylight again but in this age a lot of people seem to always have more sympathy for the perpetrators than the victim. Remember, she was a child herself and there's no reform for her.

What sort of life do you think they might have led up to that point to be doing something like that? I imagine you might be surprised what you were capable of given the right (wrong) childhood. People just like to detach themselves from kids like that and make them out to be filth, because it makes them feel superior.

But it's not about sympathy anyway. Purely from the point of societal benefit, it's much better if you can reform them rather than keeping them in prison for 70 years.

[Giggles]

They've had no hard life. They wanted to expense a rape and a kill and did it without remorse.

[randomlegend]

How do you know?

[mugbull]

I personally think that when the day comes when we can determine whether someone is psychopathic by scanning their brain or analyzing their DNA we should kill them on the spot. Preferably before they're even born.

[Lewis]

I never understand why even if people like that do 'reform' they deserve to walk amongst the rest of us. Oh, fair enough lads. You're reformed now. You didn't mean it. All the best. Meanwhile, she's still raped and dead.

[randomlegend]

I never understand why even if people like that do 'reform' they deserve to walk amongst the rest of us. Oh, fair enough lads. You're reformed now. You didn't mean it. All the best. Meanwhile, she's still raped and dead.

Does putting them in prison forever stop her being raped and dead?

[Giggles]

How do you know?

Because the case has went on for over a year and it's all there in black and white.

[Giggles]

Does putting them in prison forever stop her being raped and dead?

Better chance of someone else not being raped and dead in 8 or 12 years time.

[Kikó]

Ultimately then you believe the death penalty or life imprisonment is the only solution and rehabilitation is impossible, fair?

[Giggles]

In cases where you're obviously dealing with psychopaths, yes. From the details of the case and them during the case, a rehabilitation attempt on them isn't worth the risk to an innocent future victim of theirs. Protect the people who haven't committed the crime.

[Lewis]

I believe in the death penalty in principle but not in practice. What I mean is that I would have no problem with certain criminals being offed. However, seeing as you can never be absolutely one-hundred per cent certain of their guilt, the possibility always remains that you end up doing the wrong person in. With that in mind, I'm quite happy for those people to spend the rest of their lives inside. I don't necessarily believe that rehabilitation is 'impossible'. I just don't think reforming yourself should be considered enough to escape the most severe punishment.

[randomlegend]

Because the case has went on for over a year and it's all there in black and white.

The details of the unnamed children's lives are published? Link?

[randomlegend]

In cases where you're obviously dealing with psychopaths, yes. From the details of the case and them during the case, a rehabilitation attempt on them isn't worth the risk to an innocent future victim of theirs. Protect the people who haven't committed the crime.

Pyschopathy is a personality disorder (a severe form of antisocial personality disorder). Personality disorders cannot be diagnosed in children because their personalities are not fully formed. By definition they are not psychopaths.

[Giggles]

Pyschopathy is a personality disorder. Personality disorders cannot be diagnosed in children because their personalities are not fully formed. By definition they are not psychopaths.

Evil little cunts then.

[phonics]

I believe in the death penalty in principle but not in practice. What I mean is that I would have no problem with certain criminals being offed. However, seeing as you can never be absolutely one-hundred per cent certain of their guilt, the possibility always remains that you end up doing the wrong person in.

Also the increasing realisation that 'forensics' seems to be absolute horse shit make the argument even harder to justify

[Yevrah]

I do wonder how many people have been falsely imprisoned due to 'indisputable' forensic evidence. Must be a terrifying amount.

[Giggles]

That's was some doing that Kevin Lunney got from the provos. Interview was an awful listen.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2019/1105/1088927-kevin-lunney/


.

[Baz]

I do wonder how many people have been falsely imprisoned due to 'indisputable' forensic evidence. Must be a terrifying amount.Ian Simms ( [url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Helen_McCourt) still pleads innocence (“how can I tell you where the body is when I didn’t do anything?”) but his whole ‘someone must have broke into my house and dressed in my clothes’ schtick is far from convincing.

[Giggles]

Suing L'Oréal as well as the chemist and winning it is new levels of impressive.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/boy-2-who-cut-eye-off-sharp-object-on-pharmacy-shelf-awarded-22k-38685711.html

[bruhnaldo]

I do wonder how many people have been falsely imprisoned due to 'indisputable' forensic evidence. Must be a terrifying amount.

They run this thing called The Innocence Project here where they push DNA testing for a lot of these cases and they've actually exonerated more than 20 people off of death row.

So basically we know for a fact the court of law has killed innocent people. Just one is terrifying enough for me.

[SvN]

DNA testing is a complex subject. Prosecutors will use clever wording to make it sound like DNA evidence is indisputable, and juries hear "DNA evidence" and immediately assume it's a slam dunk.

I have a massive fear of being falsely accused of a crime. I've told my wife that if I die unexpectedly, to refuse to answer any questions from the police no matter what. I'd much rather she didn't end up falsely imprisoned than my killers getting caught.

Unless the bitch actually murders me.

[bruhnaldo]

In case anyone was interested https://www.innocenceproject.org/all-cases/#yes-death-penalty

[Jimmy Floyd]

We've all got the alibis that we were posting on here at 11.49pm that night.

[Lewis]

'Can you think of any reason he could have sweated to death in his coat?'

[mugbull]

I’ve read a lot of innocence project cases before and in 90% it’s obvious that the defendant committed the crime, and they’re trying to get off on a technicality. I’d take them a lot more seriously if they focused on cases where there was a reasonable doubt

[bruhnaldo]

So do you support the death penalty? mugbull

This isn't a gotcha question so feel free to answer freely.

[Spikey M]

I think he's more likely trying to point out that the 'Innocence Project' would get more support if they were trying to help people who were actually innocent.

[bruhnaldo]

Oh no sure I understand that I was just segwaying into another thought because ironically up until like two years ago I supported the death penalty in certain situations. Once I found out about the Innocence Project and started thinking about how awful it must be for an actual innocent person to have nothing but time on their hands to countdown the remainder of their life to the exact second I started thinking twice about it as a whole.

On one hand, I've always felt like some of these things are cut and dry, like the Sandy Hook guy I would've gave a bullet and been done with it if that makes sense.

But then it's like... where do we as humans get off on the idea we should have the right to decide whether someone lives or dies? Aren't we deriving that "right", for the most part, based out of religious text (eye for an eye or what have you).

So since I've kinda.. i don't wanna say struggled but.. tossed the idea around and still really don't know how I feel about it if I'm totally honest.

For example, the latest big news story case like this, a gentleman by the name of Rodney Reed is scheduled to be executed I believe within the next couple weeks. Reading about his story, however, leaves a lot of pause for me that... how can we be so sure to kill this man?

I believe it may have been you Spikes or someone else that said something about how DNA evidence isn't fault proof. In this instance it appears once DNA was found in the victim (who was having a consensual affair with the accused) they basically tossed aside all other evidence, did very little investigating on other leads, and just went straight for the accused and later convicted. A lot of racial undertones, for example.

I say all this because then you have instances like we're talking about... where it seems pretty evident and obvious that the accused is guilty and the Innoncence Project is looking for technicalities.

On one hand, even if I feel they are guilty, do I think we have the right to kill them?

And furthermore, if there's even any doubt whatsoever, shouldn't that bring pause to actually killing the person? And then folks will say, oh, but why should taxpayers subsidize the cost to keeping this person alive when they could be done with it. Well what is the price on a person's life? How do you determine that?

So that's why I made sure to say it wasn't a gotcha question because I was looking more for different perspectives than an argument xx

[bruhnaldo]

sry for the essay but it's just something I've thought a lot about over the passed few years and even going back to the case of Troy Davis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Davis).

Where in some instances it seems as if obviously they're going to keep trying whatever method they can to stay alive as long as they can regardless if they're innocent or not.... so for me it's like... okay, where do we draw the line and stop letting people preach their innocence in that case? How many chances do you get? How long is too long to introduce new evidence?

Why wouldn't we want to continue to hear new evidence if it's pertinent to the situation? What line do we set that says "Okay buddy look, we've given you x amount of chances, we just can't be bothered listening anymore?"

All of this with a person's life in the balance.

A person is killed and the person who kills them is killed by the state. Two lives lost. Two families affected.

And then you have instances where evidence was destroyed that could have now been used because of new technology.

It's all very scary to think about IMHO.

[Ian]

I can see how when a person has done a horrible thing how somebody might want the culprit put down but you can't really, as a government, be going "Oh no it's okay if we do a revenge murder, we just won't call it that."

It's not a deterrent and I don't think it actually saves money does it? Or have I made that up and just think I read it somewhere?

It's nonsense regardless of whether you can be 100% certain.

[Spikey M]

The number of Death Row inmates that actually get executed must be a tiny percentage. Most of them just sit on a cushy wing, in a single cell, until they die of natural causes. The prisoners in 'Gen-Pop' have it much harder.

With regards to death sentences themselves - I am opposed. But I find it difficult to actually care when they're carried out.

[John Arne]

I can see how when a person has done a horrible thing how somebody might want the culprit put down but you can't really, as a government, be going "Oh no it's okay if we do a revenge murder, we just won't call it that."


This is ultimately my position (putting aside the ethical arguments). The government cannot on one hand tell it's people not to murder, whilst at the same time, murdering its own people.

[Lewis]

The state only exists insofar as it retains the monopoly on organised violence, so it's not really a contradiction. Otherwise how come they can steal off me and imprison me for not going along with it?

[Boydy]

The state only exists insofar as it retains the monopoly on organised violence, so it's not really a contradiction. Otherwise how come they can steal off me and imprison me for not going along with it?

Isn't it you stealing off the state these days?

[randomlegend]

I can see how when a person has done a horrible thing how somebody might want the culprit put down but you can't really, as a government, be going "Oh no it's okay if we do a revenge murder, we just won't call it that."

It's not a deterrent and I don't think it actually saves money does it? Or have I made that up and just think I read it somewhere?

It's nonsense regardless of whether you can be 100% certain.

I'm sure I also remember reading it's dramatically more expensive to give someone the death penalty. IIRC it's in large part because of the millions of rounds of the appeals courts all these cases do.

[Disco]

The state makes decisions that kill people all the time but I reckon we're probably better off minimising that as much as we can, plus you inevitably get the wrong person sometimes.

[Offshore Toon]

This'll lighten the mood a bit:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-50403561?fbclid=IwAR22mHf4hdaw3ee93vdYe57GzS78P52E 1hDCyG1yXK90wm0s8TN-l77G8DA#

[Lewis]

Isn't it you stealing off the state these days?

Not with what they pay me.

[mugbull]

Isn't it you stealing off the state these days?

:D

[Pepe]

Isn't it you stealing off the state these days?

:lol:

[Yevrah]

What do the state steal from you anyway?

[Shindig]

Our hearts. :)

[randomlegend]

tAxEs ArE sTeAlInG

[Yevrah]

That's what I assumed he meant, but they're really not.

[Lewis]

My point was that the state can do all sorts of things that you and I can't, so them killing people isn't the same as anyone doing it.

[Spikey M]

By consent.

[Lewis]

The existence of the state itself doesn't require consent. If you're in charge and can remain in charge, you're in charge.

[Pepe]

My point was that the state can do all sorts of things that you and I can't, so them killing people isn't the same as anyone doing it.

Like when they asked Zom to keep his bushes a certain height. :harold:

[Spikey M]

The existence of the state itself doesn't require consent. If you're in charge and can remain in charge, you're in charge.



King Charles I would disagree.

[Lewis]

That's what I mean. He couldn't maintain his claim to the monopoly on violence, but others could, and they did so without having to ask anybody for their consent.

[Lewis]

Like when they asked Zom to keep his bushes a certain height. :harold:

I reckon they just realised he was a fanny.

[Spikey M]

Unless we decend into Communism / Fascism, Consent withdrawal results in death (usually figurative). Governments may do unpopular things, but they can't just do what they want because they are in power.

[Spikey M]

At this point I realise I am arguing History with a Published History Author and wish to withdraw. I do so without consent. Good day.

[mugbull]

History debate always dissolves into philosophy and ethics at which point a historian has nothing better to offer than a layman. Unless he’s Tony Judt

[Pepe]

I reckon they just realised he was a fanny.

At least now he can do whatever he wants in China. :happycry:

[Lewis]

It's usually the other way round, unless you've got some weird ideas about innate morality.

[Lewis]

At least now he can do whatever he wants in China. :happycry:

Having to trim your plants so they're easier to spy over. :harold:

[mugbull]

Unless you exist purely to summarize, any social science is constructed upon pre-existing notions of fairness and right and wrong, which are independent of your intelligence or education.

[Lewis]

Pre-existing notions of fairness and right and wrong, which presumably emerged from nowhere independent of any wider context.

[Yevrah]

Back to forensic evidence:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-50418212

A palm print on a door? From 20 years ago? Really?

[Giggles]

Whatever about a fake personal injury claim she deserves to be removed for using Comic Sans alone.


1195086903705579529

[Shindig]

Our boss finally stopped using that font. Someone must've had a word.

[Baz]

Verdana and Utopia are the only fonts I will ever use.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Palatino Linotype til I die.

[Alex]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-suffolk-50435026/bbc-children-in-need-i-m-gay-and-i-have-no-gender-and-that-s-fine


'I'm gay and I have no gender and that's fine'

It might well be "fine", but I don't really see how it's actually possible? I'm honestly not trying to be an arsehole in the slightest here either. Surely you can't, by definition, identify as gay without first identifying as a specific gender?

Unless they mean they're only attracted to other people who also don't have a gender? :D

[Spikey M]

That's Brilliant. :D

[Jimmy Floyd]

(It?) could be a biological female who fancies other biological females but doesn't subscribe to being a girl/woman?

I'm not going to click on the video as this stuff bores me to death, but that would seem faintly logical.

[Baz]

Saw a man on a train wearing an “I am non binary” badge.

Can someone explain this to me? It’s a foreign concept to me, but that’s more on me being sheltered rather than dismissive.

[Foe]

I think it’s something to do with waves and oscillations. Maybe the moon.

[John Arne]

Saw a man on a train wearing an “I am non binary” badge.

Can someone explain this to me?

It's means that they aren't a 0 or 1.

[Giggles]

Saw a man on a train wearing an “I am non binary” badge.

Can someone explain this to me? It’s a foreign concept to me, but that’s more on me being sheltered rather than dismissive.

It's trendy for bored students at the moment.

[-james-]

It just means they don't identify as male or female. Or they sometimes identify as male and sometimes as female.

It's rooted in the idea that sex (what you have between your legs) and gender are separate things. Maybe you have a willy but want to wear skirts and lipstick, maybe you don't but want to run the 200m for South Africa.

[Giggles]

Be handy for whichever shitter has the smallest queue down the pub.

[-james-]

A lot of toilets at YOUNG PEOPLE PLACES now just say "urinals and cubicles" or "cubicles" on them. Get involved Giggsy.

[Giggles]

A lot of toilets at YOUNG PEOPLE PLACES now just say "urinals and cubicles" or "cubicles" on them. Get involved Giggsy.

The ones with urinals are for men no matter how PC they name them. I couldn't see the type in a pub anyway though, 'event playground' would be more their scene.

[Shindig]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-suffolk-50435026/bbc-children-in-need-i-m-gay-and-i-have-no-gender-and-that-s-fine



It might well be "fine", but I don't really see how it's actually possible? I'm honestly not trying to be an arsehole in the slightest here either. Surely you can't, by definition, identify as gay without first identifying as a specific gender?

Unless they mean they're only attracted to other people who also don't have a gender? :D

"I had really bad anxiety in year 9..." How's that working out? You appear to be strangling yourself with a jumper.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/woman-filmed-urinating-on-stores-playstation-controllers/news-story/b49d70b56280b94f22b47b766ddf04b5

OK...

[bruhnaldo]

How'd you come across that one, friend?

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Don't search shame me.

[SincereTheRebel]

:lol:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7701629/Black-man-24-victim-racist-abuse-Wetherspoons.html

[Spikey M]

Fucking hell. :rosebud:

[niko_cee]

If you can order things anonymously, presumably without paying for them (as how would that be anonymous, are you paying in BitCoin?), does that mean you can order 12 fish and chips to random tables just for the lols?

[bruhnaldo]

that's awful

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

Better off just shooting him.

[Spikey M]

If you can order things anonymously, presumably without paying for them (as how would that be anonymous, are you paying in BitCoin?), does that mean you can order 12 fish and chips to random tables just for the lols?

Yeah. One of my old work mates posts his table number on Facebook and his banterous m8's send him 'random' stuff. A bowl of peas, a racist banana, take your pick. They were lolling themselves stupid over someone sending him an ALCOHOL FREE cider a little while back.

"I don't even like cider!!!!" He said, and hilarity was had by all.

[Offshore Toon]

You do have to pay for it first.

[mugbull]

Obviously a dick move but is sending a banana to a black person’s table really “racist abuse”? It’s like calling some creep who keeps trying to hit on a girl at a party a sexual abuse perpetrator

[SincereTheRebel]

It's the world we live in today. Everybody has gone soft. Super sensitive society.

[Spikey M]

Obviously a dick move but is sending a banana to a black person’s table really “racist abuse”? It’s like calling some creep who keeps trying to hit on a girl at a party a sexual abuse perpetrator

The (obvious) implication is that they are a monkey. It's the first page in Racism for Idiots.

[SvN]

I'm all for "it's political correctness gone mad" but that's clearly racist.

[Baz]

Yeah. One of my old work mates posts his table number on Facebook and his banterous m8's send him 'random' stuff. A bowl of peas, a racist banana, take your pick. They were lolling themselves stupid over someone sending him an ALCOHOL FREE cider a little while back.

"I don't even like cider!!!!" He said, and hilarity was had by all.Yeah I hate this fad.

[phonics]

Obviously a dick move but is sending a banana to a black person’s table really “racist abuse”? It’s like calling some creep who keeps trying to hit on a girl at a party a sexual abuse perpetrator

The Eastern European part of you is massively on show in this post.

[bruhnaldo]

Obviously a dick move but is sending a banana to a black person’s table really “racist abuse”? It’s like calling some creep who keeps trying to hit on a girl at a party a sexual abuse perpetrator

How is that like that literally at all?

[mugbull]

It's obviously racist but it's not racist abuse...or are they completely synonymous nowadays?

[Spikey M]

If you are being racist and it is targeted at an individual of that race, then how the fuck is it not racial abuse?

[mugbull]

You'd think the victim of racial abuse was in some sort of dangerous situation, not that he got a banana delivered to him at a Spoons for a laugh.

The word abuse loses all meaning if you use it synonymously with "someone was a racist prick"

[Spikey M]

You appear to not understand what the word abuse means.

[bruhnaldo]

"For a laugh", my man?

[Shindig]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-50470957

The pictures need a "Jonny, aged 16" at the bottom, really.

[Disco]

I love the Hitlers with swastikas for eyes, for when a simple Hitler just isn't enough Nazi.

[Shindig]

His reasons for blowing up a pub is a something else. Granted, North Road is rough.

[Spikey M]

His English teacher must have been Jewish.

[Shindig]

There's no synagogues in The Historic Catholic Cathedral City of Durham(tm) :D

[niko_cee]

Terrorist incident at London Bridge (like hours ago) and no one even bats an eyelid.

[Lewis]

And they've shot him dead. Well in, lads.

[Giggles]

Best outcome for all.

[niko_cee]

This new found/developing appetite on the part of the public to get stuck in in these situations changes the game quite significantly from the terrorist perspective. The on foot nutter becomes much less effective if the herd decides to just go for them.

[Yevrah]

The footage looks like by the time the police turned up the scumbag had been restrained by an absolute legend of a member of the public, yet they shot him anyway.

I'm not going to cry over that, but not sure if it was necessary.

[Giggles]

The footage looks like by the time the police turned up the scumbag had been restrained by an absolute legend of a member of the public, yet they shot him anyway.

I'm not going to cry over that, but not sure if it was necessary.

They should have shot him in the leg and let him bleed out while a crowd gathered and lolled at him.

[SvN]

He was wearing a fake bomb, so it was entirely justified and necessary.

[Spikey M]

Should have kneecapped him and chucked him off the bridge.

[Waffdon]

Lol at the member of public who was walking away with the knife throwing a bag of Coke on the ground. Could have at least chucked it in the Thames.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If you're a knife-wielding maniac, what does wearing a fake bomb achieve? Surely it just scares people away from your knife range and makes it a 100% certainty you'll be shot before being able to knife that many people.

[Yevrah]

I'd missed that he was 'armed' with a bomb earlier.

And I think Jim, it's because they're a fringe group of people over here populated almost entirely by morons.

[Lewis]

Coulter's Law is a go.

[niko_cee]

If you're a knife-wielding maniac, what does wearing a fake bomb achieve? Surely it just scares people away from your knife range and makes it a 100% certainty you'll be shot before being able to knife that many people.

It's a sure fire route to suicide by cop/martyrdom, whereas simply being detained by randoms on a bridge would probably be less effective (to that end) or auspicious in the eyes of god.

[Baz]

Lol at the member of public who was walking away with the knife throwing a bag of Coke on the ground. Could have at least chucked it in the Thames.Also lol at the need to dig this up:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7740131/Moment-hero-bystanders-armed-fire-extinguisher-stick-chase-knife-wielding-terrorist.html?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf


Another man who dived in to help was convicted murderer James Ford.

Now 42, Ford was jailed for life – with a minimum of 15 years – in April 2004 for the murder of a 21-year-old with learning difficulties.

Amanda Champion – who had the mental age of a 15-year-old – was found strangled and with her throat cut on waste ground near her home in Ashford, Kent, the previous July.

Yesterday, he tackled Khan and was one of the people who fought to save the lives of his victims.

[Shindig]

Makes you proud to be British.

[Yevrah]

This might be a watershed moment in dealing with these fucks.

Reminds me of the Glasgow airport attack where a local hero there took a flaming terrorist down and casually dismissed it when interviewed as "yeah, we're not having that in Scotland". :D

[Yevrah]

I would question what this bloke was doing out though, even on license. If you're convicted of a(lmost any) terror offence it should be life, with proper scrutiny to make sure the charge isn't being abused natch.

[Yevrah]

Free PR for them I know (not that they need it), but this is a lovely story.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-50604298

[Lewis]

James Ford also shouldn't have been out after fifteen years by the sounds of it.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

He was on day release.

[Spikey M]

And he got in a fight. :nono:

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

You just can't reform these animals.

[Giggles]

In a country full of one disgrace after another, this is the worst I’ve read in a while.

https://m.independent.ie/business/irish/council-pays-up-to-3000-a-month-to-rent-plush-flats-off-cuckoo-fund-38740107.html

[Spikey M]

What's a cuckoo fund?

[Giggles]

https://www.thejournal.ie/cuckoo-funds-explainer-4640142-May2019/

It’s not so much that, it’s giving dirty lazy scum such properties for free, while working people are commuting for around 4 hours a day. It’s getting to the stage it’s not worth paying your way.

[Waffdon]

Jelly and ice cream when the Queen is dead.

[Lofty]

Aye saw that screenshot of the whatsapp group with the blurry cock pic too.

[Ian]

This might be a watershed moment in dealing with these fucks.

Reminds me of the Glasgow airport attack where a local hero there took a flaming terrorist down and casually dismissed it when interviewed as "yeah, we're not having that in Scotland". :D

I imagine more people would fancy their chances of taking down a guy so incompetent he has already set himself ablaze at the point when you're considering action.

[bruhnaldo]

I feel like I'd be more likely to jump on someone who wasn't on fire, personally, but perhaps I'm looking at it wrong.

[Jimmy Floyd]

https://twitter.com/goddersbloom/status/1201529186885754885

Can anyone think of a worse tweet than that, even in theory? It's a truly splendid effort.

[Lewis]

The first bit is right. The old man needs to wind it in. 'Jack stood against everything you stand for'. Yeah and how did that go for him big fella?

[bruhnaldo]

Told man to grieve silently sheesh.

[Shindig]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50638629

I think we should go the other way on this. Let's just not recognise gender at all.

[Spikey M]

I mean, that's literally what they're asking for?

[Queenslander]

The local alternate pub near me has only gender neutral bathrooms. The stalls go in this order seat always up, seat alway down, seat always up, seat always down etc.

Not a piss trough in sight as well.

[Spikey M]

The chimp out when someone gets raped in there will be great.

[Shindig]

I mean, that's literally what they're asking for?

Not quite. He's asking for recognition of a third neutral gender. Rather than a passport where gender isn't referenced. EDIT: Actually, they're potentially asking for either. I'd argue with a passport, gender's not especially important as it has so many other identifying features.

[Spikey M]

When I speak to a 'customer' at work I have to go through a security check using the information on their contact page. I have noticed a very strong correlation between people who answer 'prefer not to say' to questions like 'ethnicity' and 'religion' and people I end up in pointless arguments with.

[Shindig]

Our system doesn't cover that stuff so I get by on address details, date of birth and NI number.