View Full Version : Quique Sanchez Flores Leaving Watford
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36284162
It has been known for a few weeks but officially confirmed today.
Personally I'm against the decision due to the bare fact of what has been achieved this season. However, the football, his decisions, stubbornness and inflexibility has been getting harder and harder to defend with each passing game.
'His' signings, Jurado, Amrabat and Suarez have all been pretty awful which I'm sure contributed to his downfall.
I can see why the decision has been made but I would have given him the start of next season to see how we got on.
The thing that most fans don't get though is the system the Pozzo's have where the manager isn't the be all and end all of the football team. They are only allowed to bring 2 (i think) members of staff with them and the rest of the backroom staff are the continuity. Still, I get that other fans will absolutely slate Watford for this.
Signs are Mazzarri is the favourite. He seems to fit the profile of being very foreign, having a good head of hair and looking sharp in a suit so who knows?
Well out of order that they didn't let him see out the last game of the season. He's achieved par this season even if the football is turgid he deserves that last game. Hopefully he gets a big pay off.
Can't really see Watford kicking on, they don't seem to have a very well balanced squad at all.
niko_cee
13-05-2016, 09:43 AM
Par for Watford would probably to have been relegated. One of those classic ones where, had the halves of the season been switched around, then there's no way he'd be leaving now. Of course, he may have left in December in that scenario.
Davgooner
13-05-2016, 10:12 AM
Can't imagine he's too fussed. He's looked bored out of his brain during his time here.
phonics
13-05-2016, 10:15 AM
Well out of order that they didn't let him see out the last game of the season. He's achieved par this season even if the football is turgid he deserves that last game. Hopefully he gets a big pay off.
Can't really see Watford kicking on, they don't seem to have a very well balanced squad at all.
He does get to see out the last game. They're announcing that he will leave at the end of the season, not that he's been sacked.
He has been though, hasn't he? They can call it what they like but it doesn't seem likely that he's refused to stay on.
Danny
13-05-2016, 10:54 AM
Par for Watford would probably to have been relegated. One of those classic ones where, had the halves of the season been switched around, then there's no way he'd be leaving now. Of course, he may have left in December in that scenario.
I have seen this trotted out on a few places and agree with your last point. He doesn't see the second half of the season
phonics
13-05-2016, 11:17 AM
He has been though, hasn't he? They can call it what they like but it doesn't seem likely that he's refused to stay on.
Yeah but he's being sacked after the last game, not before it.
He's there for the last game for the send off I imagine. It was Watford that enabled the break clause in the contract.
Well out of order that they didn't let him see out the last game of the season. He's achieved par this season even if the football is turgid he deserves that last game. Hopefully he gets a big pay off.
Can't really see Watford kicking on, they don't seem to have a very well balanced squad at all.
Couldn't this exact comment have been put to Southampton when Adkins went? You've done pretty well since...
Edit - and it's a break clause. No pay out whatsoever. The Pozzo's seem to always protect themselves from big payouts.
I've changed my mind on this one. I think he's done a good job but if they think there's somebody better willing to have a go then why not? From Flores's point of view it's not as though he didn't know the risk. He took over when they got rid of a manager who'd just got them promoted. He agreed to a break clause too.
With the new telly deal clubs like Watford can afford any player not snapped up by the giant clubs. It's an opportunity to push for Europe and to win cups. Maybe even more; look what we've done. Sure, its s competitive field, but that's all the more reason to give yourself a better chance. I don't see any reason why Flores couldn't have done that himself but then I don't really pay attention to Watford so what do I know?
Jimmy Floyd
13-05-2016, 11:57 AM
Italian owners always sack managers more or less for the sake of it, it would have been astonishing if he'd stayed on. Didn't they sack 3 managers in the promotion season?
Guidolin is probably in a state of shock.
Lewis
13-05-2016, 12:00 PM
Don't foreigners sack managers because they invented the Liverpool Transfer Committee, and consider managers largely interchangeable from a strategic perspective (which is why they never seem to be tarred with failure in Serie A and manage everybody twice)? We're pretty much there, but we've probably still got the failure stigma, so somebody like 'Brendan' will never get another big job here.
Couldn't this exact comment have been put to Southampton when Adkins went? You've done pretty well since...
Edit - and it's a break clause. No pay out whatsoever. The Pozzo's seem to always protect themselves from big payouts.
We where on an upwards trend with a huge financial backing. I think we'd be a top half team now with Adkins in charge, who knows we could be doing even better.
Jimmy Floyd
13-05-2016, 12:38 PM
Palermo are currently on their 29th manager in ten years. Cagliari their 20th.
phonics
13-05-2016, 12:40 PM
We where on an upwards trend with a huge financial backing. I think we'd be a top half team now with Adkins in charge, who knows we could be doing even better.
You don't think Watford are on an upwards trend with huge finanical backing?
It's a brave decision from the Watford board though. QSF is another Pulis and Allardyce. He will most certainly keep you up but you aren't going to progress too much. The Pozzo's have decided to act and make that change to kick on. Obviously this is a risk but it could go either way.
Personally I would have kept him on and tried to consolidate for another season and then perhaps moved on but the people in charge clearly think we can do better.
Jimmy Floyd
13-05-2016, 03:27 PM
Do they even think that or do they just change for the sake of it?
Granada have had 9 managers in their five years in La Liga and not a single one has made any difference to their finishing position of between 15th and 17th every year.
Magic
13-05-2016, 03:44 PM
Come to Leeds, baby.
Oh...John Sheridan? Nevermind...
I maintained at the time the sacking Nigel Adkins for Pochettino was a great shout. If you think there's a genuine world beater out there, go and get them.
Adkins has just been sacked from League One Sheffield United, so let's not pretend he's off being a modern day Herbert Chapman instead.
Lewis
13-05-2016, 06:38 PM
Andy was spewing when they chucked Alan Pardew as well. Sacking managers works.
Do they even think that or do they just change for the sake of it?
Granada have had 9 managers in their five years in La Liga and not a single one has made any difference to their finishing position of between 15th and 17th every year.
Well i don't know because I'm not them but their history with watford suggests they do. I can't speak for their other clubs but every change thus far has worked out pretty well for us. For now I will trust them and believe they know best.
Jimmy Floyd
13-05-2016, 08:40 PM
I kind of agree on the basis that they are going no further playing that dross, I've just lived through enough Italian sackings to think that Lewis has it about right.
Weaver
21-05-2016, 08:52 AM
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Walter Mazzarri has been announced as his replacement. Three year deal.
Jimmy Floyd
21-05-2016, 09:06 AM
The place is basically flooded with journeyman Italian managers now - at least four off the top of my head - and I for one welcome our new expensive suit-wearing, gnocchi-eating overlords.
We're slowly becoming serie a.
Max Power
21-05-2016, 09:44 AM
It's definitely becoming a trend now. United should fuck Mourinho off and bring in Giampiero Ventura :nodd:
Curious to know what excuses for losing Mazzarri can come up with in English.
Andy was spewing when they chucked Alan Pardew as well. Sacking managers works.
Pardew would have gotten us back into the Premiership, he wasn't sacked for footballing reasons.
We where 14th when we sacked Adkins and finished 14th. Kicked on a lot the next season after the squad matured and we spent about 60 million.
Koeman has done well since he took over from Pochettino but he has spent over 100m.
Every season we've spent massively, if we didn't improve year on year the manager would be a failure.
We've replaced good manager with other good managers, spent a fortune and improved. Far more to do with money that any drastic improvement between managers.
I maintained at the time the sacking Nigel Adkins for Pochettino was a great shout. If you think there's a genuine world beater out there, go and get them.
Adkins has just been sacked from League One Sheffield United, so let's not pretend he's off being a modern day Herbert Chapman instead.
And Rafa has been wank for ten years yet you'd still take him back at Liverpool of Kloop resigned tomorrow. Finding a club that fits is a massive part of being successful in management.
And Rafa has been wank for ten years yet you'd still take him back at Liverpool of Kloop resigned tomorrow. Finding a club that fits is a massive part of being successful in management.
The first part of your statement is about as incorrect as it's possible to be. He hasn't been shit for ten years, but irrespective I don't think I would want him back at Liverpool now. Both parties have moved onto different things.
Sacking Pardew led to two consecutive promotions, sacking Adkins led to consolidating your place in the Premier League. Whatever your views on the merits of those sackings, it worked out very well for Southampton and retrospective caveating - e.g. Pardew would have got us up anyway - is pointless. You can offer a view, but there's no evidence to suggest Pardew would have achieved the same thing as Adkins.
The first part of your statement is about as incorrect as it's possible to be. He hasn't been shit for ten years, but irrespective I don't think I would want him back at Liverpool now. Both parties have moved onto different things.
Sacking Pardew led to two consecutive promotions, sacking Adkins led to consolidating your place in the Premier League. Whatever your views on the merits of those sackings, it worked out very well for Southampton and retrospective caveating - e.g. Pardew would have got us up anyway - is pointless. You can offer a view, but there's no evidence to suggest Pardew would have achieved the same thing as Adkins.
What about the season Pardew was in charge? He started off with a bunch of 18 year olds and took us to 7th with our points hit, to suggest he wouldn't have got us promoted is utterly ridiculous. He fell out with Cortese because they where too similar, they both wanted to be the main man. That's why we bought in Adkins, he was more of a yes man, less ego and happier to let Cortese say and do whatever he wanted.
We started our first season back in the premier league awfully, then Adkins turned it around when Cork came back from injury, we signed Boruc on a free and he started to play Shaw. After that we went six unbeaten and moved up to 14th. We sacked Adkins, finished the season in 14th, Pochettino spent more in one summer than we'd spent in the last ten years and we improved from 14th-8th.
If you still want to just assume we've improved because Cortese liked sacking managers go for it.
You can't say with any certainty that Pardew would have 'finished the job' in League One, or that he would have maintained the necessary momentum. Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't. But there's certainly nothing to suggest that appointing Adkins wasn't, with hindsight, a very good appointment.
On the Adkins point, a six game unbeaten run does not indicate you were definitely going to stay up. Maybe you would, maybe you wouldn't. Adkins hasn't done very well in his subsequent jobs, so maybe he had hit his own personal ceiling. Appointing Pochettino was, in hindsight, a very good appointment because he consolidated the 14th place finish and clearly avoided 'second season syndrome' by moving you forward. Yes, you spent money to do this - but comparing it with your previous ten seasons is slightly disingenuous given inflation in the market and the scale of prize money and TV deals, wholly absent from your budget since you were previously relegated in 2005.
So my point is not that you've 'improved' necessarily by sacking managers, but that you cannot now say that Southampton were somehow hindered through changing managers. They've done as well over the last six seasons as one could realistically expect, and it would appear that changing managers at the right time has made a contribution to that. If you would like to maintain that Alan Pardew could have done this himself over the course of the last six years, that's entirely your prerogative but it's a very difficult position to maintain.
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