The UK Politics Thread [Wot did Jez do now...]

[Lee]

I live 10 minutes away from RAF Marham and to say it's been busy the past week or so would be an understatement.

I meant over a longer period. We've already been bombing Iraq, there's no border between the two countries. Who would even know?

[Luke Emia]

Fucking hell Corbyns reaction to that speech was classic.

[Yevrah]

I meant over a longer period. We've already been bombing Iraq, there's no border between the two countries. Who would even know?

For all the good it would do, no-one.

And where are you good chaps watching all that's going on in the House of Commons?

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

I live 10 minutes away from RAF Marham and to say it's been busy the past week or so would be an understatement.

Anyone know how many bombers we've been using thus far?

Akrotiri isn't far away at all so it won't be long.

[Magic]

Did anyone else spot fat Salmond's smug face? Horrible little cunt.

[Henry]

The chief whip did not vote with the Tories. That's just a lie doing the rounds.

[Magic]

I meant over a longer period. We've already been bombing Iraq, there's no border between the two countries. Who would even know?

Can we merge them with Iraq and make a super pro-Western nation once Assad is toppled to really fuck the middle East up.

[Lee]

For all the good it would do, no-one.

And where are you good chaps watching all that's going on in the House of Commons?

I watched the last hour or so on BBC Parliament. Worth giving Benn's speech a listen. The end bit of it where he addresses his own party (brilliantly, and offers hope that it won't be dead after all) is on the BBC site's live coverage of the debate.

[Lee]

Can we merge them with Iraq and make a super pro-Western nation once Assad is toppled to really fuck the middle East up.

The existing borders are made up anyway so I doubt it would make things any worse.

[Jimmy Floyd]

For all the good it would do, no-one.

And where are you good chaps watching all that's going on in the House of Commons?

The end of Benn's speech is up here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34990957 - but when the whole thing's up you really should watch it, I found it breathtaking and I'm not really sure whether I agree or not.

[Magic]

That's a thumping majority sounds like more than 57... I'm assuming none of the Scots would have voted with the government on principle alone.

There's been stuff going around they've got to toe the party line and not free vote.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/01/talk-to-isis-jihadis-ira-negotiate-military-political-solution#comment-64413525

People suggest that there is nothing to talk to Isis about. But it is important to understand that talking to terrorists is not the same as agreeing with them. The British would never have discussed a united Ireland at the barrel of a gun against the wishes of the majority in Northern Ireland. But when we sat down with the IRA, its leaders wanted to talk about legitimate subjects like power-sharing and human rights. The same will be true of Isis. No one is going to talk to them about a universal caliphate, but we can talk about Sunni grievances and a way of ending violence.

Honestly. :D

[Lee]

The end of Benn's speech is up here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34990957 - but when the whole thing's up you really should watch it, I found it breathtaking and I'm not really sure whether I agree or not.

I don't agree (with bombing alone anyway - we ought to stop fucking about letting our allies fund the cunts and fight them on the ground) and found it persuasive. I really hope Corbyn gets the arse and sacks him. He'd be out within the week.

[Magic]

The existing borders are made up anyway so I doubt it would make things any worse.

Shia abs Sunni combining to make a great country. What could go wrong?

#nothingtodowithislam

[Lee]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/01/talk-to-isis-jihadis-ira-negotiate-military-political-solution#comment-64413525

People suggest that there is nothing to talk to Isis about. But it is important to understand that talking to terrorists is not the same as agreeing with them. The British would never have discussed a united Ireland at the barrel of a gun against the wishes of the majority in Northern Ireland. But when we sat down with the IRA, its leaders wanted to talk about legitimate subjects like power-sharing and human rights. The same will be true of Isis. No one is going to talk to them about a universal caliphate, but we can talk about Sunni grievances and a way of ending violence.

Honestly. :D

We always talk in the end and we will do so with this lot. Not before they're starved/battered into submission though.

[Magic]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/01/talk-to-isis-jihadis-ira-negotiate-military-political-solution#comment-64413525

People suggest that there is nothing to talk to Isis about. But it is important to understand that talking to terrorists is not the same as agreeing with them. The British would never have discussed a united Ireland at the barrel of a gun against the wishes of the majority in Northern Ireland. But when we sat down with the IRA, its leaders wanted to talk about legitimate subjects like power-sharing and human rights. The same will be true of Isis. No one is going to talk to them about a universal caliphate, but we can talk about Sunni grievances and a way of ending violence.

Honestly. :D

See those blokes you set fire to and stuff, what's that really solving? I think we can sort something out.

[Magic]

We always talk in the end and we will do so with this lot. Not before they're starved/battered into submission though.

The world has never had such a thing. Bar the high command of the third reich even the Nazis were just humans. These fuckers are worse than the Japanese in terms of no surrender. Every single one of them will suicide it up. There's no sovereign will to protect or leader to say enough or we'll disintegrate.

[Henry]

I don't really agree, but you need to read the whole article rather than taking one quote out of context and pretending it means something he's already clarified that it doesn't.

I grow tired at the simplistic nature of this entire debate.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

He made it clear it won't just be a case of 'talking' but you can't reason with a group that want to enforce Sharia law by any means necessary.

[Henry]

Every single one of them will suicide it up.

This is either a fucking lie or an admission of complete ignorance, given that hundreds of them have been surrendering (http://www.globalresearch.ca/over-1000-militants-surrender-to-syrian-army-in-last-24-hours/5480962).


There's no sovereign will to protect

Also bullshit, since they believe Al-Baghdadi to be doing the divinely inspired will of Allah.

[Lee]

The world has never had such a thing. Bar the high command of the third reich even the Nazis were just humans. These fuckers are worse than the Japanese in terms of no surrender. Every single one of them will suicide it up. There's no sovereign will to protect or leader to say enough or we'll disintegrate.

Some of the leaders are former members of the Iraqi Ba'ath Party, they're not all devout muslims. As always, it's about power and politics. The religious shit is useful for recruiting retards stupid enough to want to fight for a cause. It all goes the same way in the end. We'll kill enough people, roll back enough land, they'll have fuck all to cling to other than a need not to be killed themselves and they'll roll over.

[Lee]

He made it clear it won't just be a case of 'talking' but you can't reason with a group that want to enforce Sharia law by any means necessary.

We talk to the Taliban who at the time were "the worst ever we can never talk to them there's no reasoning!". It's bullshit. There always comes a talking point.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

We talk to the Taliban who at the time were "the worst ever we can never talk to them there's no reasoning!". It's bullshit. There always comes a talking point.

What did the Taliban want? For us to fuck off.

[Magic]

This is either a fucking lie or an admission of complete ignorance, given that hundreds of them have been surrendering (http://www.globalresearch.ca/over-1000-militants-surrender-to-syrian-army-in-last-24-hours/5480962).

****According to some reports they could have up to 200k carrying out IS duties.

Also bullshit, since they believe Al-Baghdadi to be doing the divinely inspired will of Allah.

Yes but you can do that anywhere on earth, that was my point.

****on phone

[Magic]

Some of the leaders are former members of the Iraqi Ba'ath Party, they're not all devout muslims. As always, it's about power and politics. The religious shit is useful for recruiting retards stupid enough to want to fight for a cause. It all goes the same way in the end. We'll kill enough people, roll back enough land, they'll have fuck all to cling to other than a need not to be killed themselves and they'll roll over.

We'll see.

[GS]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/watch-hilary-benns-extraordinary-speech-6944024

Full Hilary Benn speech.

[Lewis]

Jonathan Powell wrote the same article last year. He's a twat.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I don't think there's anyone capable of winding me up more than Jonathan Powell. If you read his memoir about the Blair years (which in typical twat fashion is described as 'Machiavelli and politics' or something) you will get a throm.

[GS]

It's certainly interesting to see the MASSIVE government rebellion which Henry mentioned manifesting itself by scraping into double figures.

[Lee]

It's certainly interesting to see the MASSIVE government rebellion which Henry mentioned manifesting itself by scraping into double figures.

To be fair to Henry if Labour weren't such a shambles that's a massive story given the nature of the vote. The government has a very slender majority. Corbyn is inadvertently protecting Cameron by being so shit.

[GS]

To be fair to Henry if Labour weren't such a shambles that's a massive story given the nature of the vote. The government has a very slender majority. Corbyn is inadvertently protecting Cameron by being so shit.

About 12 Tory rebels? Hardly.

[Henry]

To be fair to Henry if Labour weren't such a shambles that's a massive story given the nature of the vote. The government has a very slender majority.

This. Labour had a free vote and had 57 rebels. It would have been closer to the Tory number had it been whipped.

[GS]

This. Labour had a free vote and had 57 rebels. It would have been closer to the Tory number had it been whipped.

Cameron had the authority to whip the party, who fell into line. Labour had a free vote because a sizeable number would have chosen to ignore the whip, including Hilary Benn who has just demonstrated quite emphatically that Corbyn is a no hoper.

The Shadow Chief Whip chose to abstain tonight, which is entertaining.

[Lee]

About 12 Tory rebels? Hardly.

The majority is only 12. If Corbyn had any strength of leadership Cameron would have been close to losing a vote on going to war. That's a significant story.

[GS]

The majority is only 12. If Corbyn had any strength of leadership Cameron would have been close to losing a vote on going to war. That's a significant story.

Cameron wouldn't have held the vote in those circumstances though. It's a deliberate government strategy ("we want consensus lads"), so it wouldn't have got to this stage and is therefore a moot argument. They knew had the votes before they called it.

[GS]

Final figures appear to be 7 rebels and 7 abstentions on the Tory side. 67 Labour MPs voted with the government. DUP, UUP, one independent Unionist and the Lib Dems also voted with the government.

[Lewis]

What sort of twat abstains on a vote like this?

[Lee]

Cameron wouldn't have held the vote in those circumstances though. It's a deliberate government strategy ("we want consensus lads"), so it wouldn't have got to this stage and is therefore a moot argument. They knew had the votes before they called it.

Well quite. So the Prime Minister woul not even have the authority to hold a vote to take action he clearly feels strongly is in the national interest. That still sounds like a story to me.

Cameron must go to bed pissing every night. In fact footage could emerge of him pissing on his kids every night and he'd still be able to mock the Leader of the Opposition and win public support for doing so.

[GS]

Well quite. So the Prime Minister woul not even have the authority to hold a vote to take action he clearly feels strongly is in the national interest. That still sounds like a story to me.

Cameron must go to bed pissing every night. In fact footage could emerge of him pissing on his kids every night and he'd still be able to mock the Leader of the Opposition and win public support for doing so.

Perhaps, but it's always been quite 'vague' on when a vote would be called and it's very much been on the back burner. It would just been postponed indefinitely until "we have consensus lads". They'll have quietly sounded out members of the PLP over the last couple of months to know which way the wind was blowing.

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that Corbyn could almost be referred to as the former leader of the opposition this evening. Benn will have significant moral and personal authority after this - certainly more so than Corbyn in the PLP.

[Spammer]

Could anyone explain why we're particularly even needed to bomb Syria, with so many others involved aleady?

[Lee]

Perhaps, but it's always been quite 'vague' on when a vote would be called and it's very much been on the back burner. It would just been postponed indefinitely until "we have consensus lads". They'll have quietly sounded out members of the PLP over the last couple of months to know which way the wind was blowing.

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that Corbyn could almost be referred to as the former leader of the opposition this evening. Benn will have significant moral and personal authority after this - certainly more so than Corbyn in the PLP.

The best hope Labour have is for Corbyn to sack Benn. It will definitely happen sooner or later. If sooner, while tonight is relatively fresh in the memory, then Corbyn will be utterly fucked. I can't see I've ever seen Benn himself as leadership material (and I don't think there has ever been a suggestion that he'd want it) but he's as good a focus as any for the end of this mad experiment.

[GS]

Could anyone explain why we're particularly even needed to bomb Syria, with so many others involved aleady?

I think Hilary Benn's speech is probably the most succinct argument you're going to get for the strategic need and moral obligation that exists.

[GS]

The best hope Labour have is for Corbyn to sack Benn. It will definitely happen sooner or later. If sooner, while tonight is relatively fresh in the memory, then Corbyn will be utterly fucked. I can't see I've ever seen Benn himself as leadership material (and I don't think there has ever been a suggestion that he'd want it) but he's as good a focus as any for the end of this mad experiment.

It'll be interesting to see the final shadow cabinet figures. It's a laugh whenever the leader is citing "we think half the shadow cabinet hasn't voted against his stated view".

[Lewis]

So thirty per cent of Labour voted for it? You would think it was everybody but Jezza the way people are carrying on.

[Boydy]

Are you a Tory now, GS?

[GS]

Working life has demonstrated that this is the way forward. You should try it.

[Lee]

A "High Tory", in his own words. Trust GS to go for the 17th century variant. :D

[Boydy]

Yeah, I was taking the piss. I know you are. You don't have to be such a zealous convert though.

[Lee]

Working life has demonstrated that this is the way forward. You should try it.

That's a mental statement. Apart from the sly dig. Everybody likes a sly dig.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Labour are doomed whatever happens now because of the entryists. Look at what's happening to Stella Creasy at the moment. Some seriously vile people knocking about on the left fringes.

[GS]

A "High Tory", in his own words. Trust GS to go for the 17th century variant. :D

For God, King and Country.


Yeah, I was taking the piss. I know you are. You don't have to be such a zealous convert though.

Piss-taking aside, this is partly because Labour represent a barely credible opposition and haven't done so since Ed Miliband was elected. I could give you a long list of reasons why I just don't like the Labour party any more, but I'm sure you're not interested.

[Reg]

Lewis, I know you're a big Jez fan now :cool:, but did you vote Tory last election?

[Lee]

Yeah, I was taking the piss. I know you are. You don't have to be such a zealous convert though.

GS is now to the Tories what Ginner was to the Lib Dems in the 2010 election thread. It's making him a much worse poster, which is a shame as he used to be brilliant.

[GS]

That's a mental statement. Apart from the sly dig. Everybody likes a sly dig.

It's not actually. It's two fold. 1) Now I'm working and handing over tax, I don't want to see it pissed up the wall by a government who have no SELF CONTROL and can't MANAGE OUR ECONOMY. I also don't want to see it handed to a series of chancers on benefits whilst I turn up and actually work hard for my money.

2) I've been out in various businesses / sole traders over the last few years given the nature of the work and the one thing I've realised is that these places actually CREATE JOBS and need support. The left seem to expect people to feel guilty for making money.

[Boydy]

Labour are doomed whatever happens now because of the entryists. Look at what's happening to Stella Creasy at the moment. Some seriously vile people knocking about on the left fringes.
Aye, I don't get that at all with her. She's good. Did she vote for it in the end? She hadn't even made up her mind earlier when her constituency office was being protested at and her office workers getting abuse.


Piss-taking aside, this is partly because Labour represent a barely credible opposition and haven't done so since Ed Miliband was elected. I could give you a long list of reasons why I just don't like the Labour party any more, but I'm sure you're not interested.

I would be if you posted it in a reasonable manner rather than one of your usual condescending rants. I don't even mean the sly dig (as Lee says, everyone loves one), your general posting has gone way downhill these days. You used to be good.

[Reg]

There's a few things in that post but... "A series of chancers". Jesus. Thought you were a bit less gullable than that.

[GS]

Aye, I don't get that at all with her. She's good. Did she vote for it in the end? She hadn't even made up her mind earlier when her constituency office was being protested at and her office workers getting abuse.



I would be if you posted it in a reasonable manner rather than one of your usual condescending rants. I don't even mean the sly dig (as Lee says, everyone loves one), your general posting has gone way downhill these days. You used to be good.

Trying to argue the point on here is the equivalent of kicking a football against a wall and having it go flying past you every time, so you have to turn around and run after it It's just not very fun, so I don't bother.

As you said yourself the other day, my posting is become less frequent so consider yourself fortunate that's the case if that is indeed your view.

[Boydy]

Feels the same here. I can't be arsed with politics on here much any more. We all know where each other stands and no one is going to change their mind.

[Lewis]

Lewis, I know you're a big Jez fan now :cool:, but did you vote Tory last election?

I suspect I'll always end up voting for the Conservative Party as the least shit option, but they're still terrible.

[Spoonsky]

The end of Benn's speech is up here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34990957 - but when the whole thing's up you really should watch it, I found it breathtaking and I'm not really sure whether I agree or not.

Is that "heere!" thing from the audience common? It's pretty lol.

[Reg]

"Hear, hear", Spoon. It means you agree, and very common.

[Spoonsky]

Yeah, I did know what it meant despite using the wrong "hear" above. It just sounds very silly.

[Magic]

Tradition, mate.

[Lee]

It is very silly. It's great when there's proper debate or a brilliant speech but otherwise it's just a place for years to act like schoolboys.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Not sure what's wrong with 'hear, hear'.

Of all the brilliant pieces of hypocrisy around this on both sides of the debate, I think my favourite one is George Galloway calling Labour MPs who voted for air strikes 'traitors', and in the next breath praising Russia for their air strikes. It shows that for the likes of him it's not actually about the issue at all.

[Henry]

Could anyone explain why we're particularly even needed to bomb Syria, with so many others involved aleady?

Nope. Nobody can. "Because they're really bad" seems to be the height of it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Am also enjoying the Corbynistas comparing Benn's speech to one of Adolf Hitler's.

[Lewis]

I like the idea that Tony Benn would have waited until now to be ashamed of his son.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Dennis Skinner has now called him 'Ramsay McBenn' in the House. That really is commendable commitment to being Dennis Skinner.

[phonics]

My phone won't copy paste so Ill just say it here.

Rob Faheys piece on this is Quite Excellent.

[simon]

Decent speech from Hilary Benn. Slightly makes up for the fact that he's a bloke called Hilary.

[Mellberg]

It made Cameron's rallying cry after Paris look like he was tucking his kids in.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

How much outrage (or should that be faux outrage?) have people been seeing on their facebook feeds?

http://s9.postimg.org/7fb482rn3/lol.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Calm down, mate.

[Baz]

Depends who you're mates with, really.

https://i.imgur.com/rq9PVfK.png

:huhu:

[Magic]

How much outrage (or should that be faux outrage?) have people been seeing on their facebook feeds?

http://s9.postimg.org/7fb482rn3/lol.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Calm down, mate.

Tell him to fuck off to Syria then.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

He's far from an idiot too.

[Magic]

SNP supporter aye?

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

SNP supporter aye?

No, surprisingly enough. Yes voter though.

[Magic]

Even worse. At least the SNPites know they're complete cunts that can't accept reality. A non-nationalist voting for lies and rhetoric is both blind and stupid. And you said he wasn't thick?

[Toby]

:harold:

[Toby]

Anyway, did any of us have the foresight to buy shares in BAE Systems last week?

[Boydy]

Anyway, did any of us have the foresight to buy shares in BAE Systems last week?

Didn't they jump up straight after the Laris attack? Or at least some arms company did if it wasn't them.

[Jimmy Floyd]

In this Oldham by-election (which Labour will win) the loonies have put up a man called Sir Oink-A-Lot, complete with a false pig's snout tied to his face on string, a false beard and a tiny bowler hat. I fucking love this country.

[Lewis]

I remember being all proud when it was briefly the biggest arms dealer in the world a couple of years ago. I think it's still about third behind the American rackets, which is quite an achievement when you think about it.

[Lewis]

I think the UKIP punters were a bit optimistic, but I still thought it would be closer than that. If UKIP can't win those sort of seats after this sort of week, what can they win, and what happens to their replacing Labour in the North shit once we've had the referendum?

[Lewis]

'Nigel' is questioning the result, and Paul Nuttall[s] is blaming Asians and postal voters. They're obviously asking themselves the same questions.

[Lee]

Farage is embarrassing himself this morning.

[Henry]

Not sure what's wrong with 'hear, hear'.

Of all the brilliant pieces of hypocrisy around this on both sides of the debate, I think my favourite one is George Galloway calling Labour MPs who voted for air strikes 'traitors', and in the next breath praising Russia for their air strikes. It shows that for the likes of him it's not actually about the issue at all.

A lot like David Cameron, then, who condemned Russian strikes on the same grounds that people are now condemning his.

[Henry]

Bigger majority than the general election bitches. Great result for Corbyn.

"Rigged" :lol:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Corbyn's masterstroke there was cancelling his own visit to the seat.

[Toby]

Didn't they jump up straight after the Laris attack? Or at least some arms company did if it wasn't them.

Share price has almost trebled since then but it's been rising steadily almost every day. Even if you bought some last week you'd still have seen it almost double in the time since.

[GS]

I think Labour had a very good local candidate in Oldham, which made a big difference. Laughable from UKIP mind you.

[Kikó]

What do you know about the local candidates in Oldham? Can you give us a brief overview?

[Magic]

Not brown = very good?

[Lee]

He was the council leader, I think, so well known. Smithson was on about sticking money on him as a future leader a couple of weeks back.

[GS]

Yes, he's been the local council leader since he was 28 in a staunchly Labour area. He seems to have very good name recognition in the constituency, certainly based on what I've been reading this week. He's a moderate, pro business candidate, so hardly cut from the Corbyn cloth. They may have struggled if they'd parachuted someone in to a perceived "safe seat".

[Davgooner]

He's a 'pro business' cunt. :nodd:

[Boydy]

Proper local candidate who's worked his way up through local politics. Good to see.

As I've said before, I think a residency requirement of 5 years (the length of a parliament) in the constituency you want to run for would be a good idea. See how many of the careerist twats want to go live in their constituencies then.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He's probably already been targeted for deselection by 'Momentum'.

I live in a nice Surrey constituency but our MP moved in literally in the April before the May election when he got in. Twat.

[Henry]

Deselection of Blairites can't happen soon enough in my view. Get on with it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Lol. One way ticket to a world record election defeat, that.

[Henry]

If we're talking about entryists, then the Tories who took over the Labour party surely qualify, and should be shown the door.

[GS]

Deselection of Blairites can't happen soon enough in my view. Get on with it.

Do you want the Tories to win?

[Jimmy Floyd]

If we're talking about entryists, then the Tories who took over the Labour party surely qualify, and should be shown the door.

What qualifies one as a 'Tory'? A lifetime of Labour membership and activism seems not to.

[Henry]

Do you want the Tories to win?

You know I don't agree with your analysis, so loading your question in this way is unhelpful.

[Henry]

Prior to the Oldham victory for Corbyn's Labour:

The Daily Heil: "A Waterloo moment."...“Tonight will deliver the first proper electoral verdict on Mr. Corbyn’s leadership of the Labour Party...it is also a timely reassessment of Nigel Farage’s aspirations to make UKIP a credible alternative to Labour in the urban North of England....No doubt that Labours majority will be slashed"

The Sun: Corbyn's supporters are a “moronic Marxist mob” who called Hilary Benn a “warmonger instead of feting him as a hero.....Voters are repulsed...By the time you read this, we will know what those in Oldham think of it.”

:lol:

[phonics]

Anti-Terror Police take 12 year old out of class and threaten him for organising a protest to save his Youth Club on Facebook.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/boy-12-hauled-out-class-268999#ICID=sharebar_twitter

Only Big Society left is Big Brother, mate.

[Boydy]

That can't be true or at least can't be exactly like what was written there.

[Lewis]

The collective MELTDOWN over the Stop the War wallies comparing the 'internationalism and solidarity' of jihadists with the International Brigades is quite funny. It seems quite accurate in terms of what words actually mean, although they might have a point in that the Muslamics haven't killed as many innocent people yet.

[phonics]

MP tries to get in on the 'They're being mean to me on the internet!' action.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3346220/Tory-MP-voted-bomb-Syria-Facebook-death-threat-row-adding-unless-die-constituent-s-email.html

Issue being she added the death threat to the email herself :D

[Lewis]

Spiked out-did themselves with this the other day. In short (http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/labours-crybaby-bombardiers/17703), lol at voting to bomb a country and then whining about mean tweets.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The gist of the article is right concerning MPs voting to bomb things, but this is bullshit and undermines it:


Let’s get a few things straight. First of all, if you’re over 16 – let alone a prominent politician – you’ve got no right to claim you’re being bullied. Bullying is what happens in the playground.

[Lewis]

673212133195300865

:cool:

[Henry]

The collective MELTDOWN over the Stop the War wallies comparing the 'internationalism and solidarity' of jihadists with the International Brigades is quite funny. It seems quite accurate in terms of what words actually mean, although they might have a point in that the Muslamics haven't killed as many innocent people yet.

Hadn't heard anything about that. What meltdown?

[Lewis]

It might just have been the sort of people I follow on the Twitter, but he's been getting shit today for refusing to distance himself from Stop the War.

[Davgooner]

673212133195300865

:cool:

He should turn up at PMQs in that hat.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Something for anyone on the geekier end of politics as YouGov have published a report into how and why they got their general election polling wrong: https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/12/07/analysis-what-went-wrong-our-ge15-polling-and-what/

This paragraph is the key part:


The younger age range within the samples over-represent those who are more engaged in politics and are therefore more likely to vote. As younger people, they disproportionately supported Labour, so having too many young voters in our likely voter sample skewed the overall result towards Labour. We believe we had the party voting proportions for this age group correct but that fewer of them actually voted than our sample suggested. This can be corrected in the future in two ways: a) interviewing the correct proportion of people who are less interested in politics, and b) weighting the sample to the expected turnout for different demographic groups. The problem with both of these is that, unlike in the US where detailed exit poll data is publicly available, in the UK no detailed information is available by which we can know the correct target proportions for each age group. However, we can make better estimates of them.

I hope for his sake that someone in Jezza's team has pinned up a huge motivational poster on his office wall reading 'The thing with non-voters is that they don't fucking vote'.

[Lee]

Something for anyone on the geekier end of politics as YouGov have published a report into how and why they got their general election polling wrong: https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/12/07/analysis-what-went-wrong-our-ge15-polling-and-what/

This paragraph is the key part:



I hope for his sake that someone in Jezza's team has pinned up a huge motivational poster on his office wall reading 'The thing with non-voters is that they don't fucking vote'.

I've read that non-voters tend to break the same way as voters anyway so targeting them makes fuck all difference.

I think I also read that even securing his target audience of young non-voters wouldn't be anything like enough for anything but electoral defeat.

[Henry]

Politics is the art of persuasion. If it couldn't be done, everyone would give up and go home.

[Yevrah]

So not enough young people, despite pissing and moaning about the EVIL Tories, couldn't be arsed to get out of bed before 10 and down to the polling station?

Or maybe they listened to Brand and didn't bother voting as a result? It'd be delightful if that monstrous twat's message had inadvertently secured the Tories a majority...

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Is he dead yet? I haven't seen anything about him for ages.

[Yevrah]

I don't think he's any less active than he was when he was at peak levels, I'm guessing a lot of people realised that he was full of shit and more importantly the broadcasters realised he wasn't particularly newsworthy.

The only thing I've got any time for him with are his thoughts on drugs, which do make a lot of sense, but his political stuff was just embarrassing.

[phonics]

So not enough young people, despite pissing and moaning about the EVIL Tories, couldn't be arsed to get out of bed before 10 and down to the polling station?

Or maybe they listened to Brand and didn't bother voting as a result? It'd be delightful if that monstrous twat's message had inadvertently secured the Tories a majority...

The young have never voted (I'm not sure where the Russell Brand bit comes from) Or in my case, didn't believe in that Labour party. When I was in the UK for the election that eneded up forming the coalition, I knew a few 'politically active' people who refused to register as the banks and student loan use it to find you. There are all types of cirmunstances when we're talking about a rather small slice of the vote. Old people will always outweigh young people (in pure numbers) and they're more likely to vote because it'll be the most exciting thing they've done since the last time they voted.

[Lewis]

I like those articles moaning about how the government showers old people with money (which it does). Yeah. Because they vote. If you voted...

[Lee]

The leader of the Labour Party went to meet Russell Brand in a General Election campaign because he thought it might help him win. Fuck me.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Then again, he also posed in front of a large boulder with platitudes carved into it. And yet that era now seems like a frenzied orgy of competence in Labour's history.

[Disco]

The leader of the Labour Party went to meet Russell Brand in a General Election campaign because he thought it might help him win. Fuck me.

Given that he also thought making his own gigantic gravestone was a good idea I'm not sure how much this tells us.

[Yevrah]

A moment to reflect on the policy obelisk please. RIP.

[Disco]

:D Consult the Policy Obelisk.

[Jimmy Floyd]

http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1436811/ed-stone-cropped.jpg

It was such a waste of a good obelisk putting those bland, meaningless policies on it as well.

[Lee]

Didn't he say he was goimg to plamt it in the Downing Street garden? How the fuck does something like that get past however many groups you have to approve such shit?

[Raoul Duke]

The spacing on that last one if atrocious.

It's so 'The Thick Of It' it's remarkable it's not been revealed to be an elaborate Joaquin Pheonix side project.

[niko_cee]

I thought that, but then realised there was more of number 5 out of shot. Still, it does look shit. Keep it pithy to get the typography nice.

[phonics]

He should turn up at PMQs in that hat.

Nah, just bring the scarf

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVtQrC-WUAEX_Lw.jpg:large

[Boydy]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/09/tony-blair-tragedy-of-labour-under-corbyn

On foreign policy, he said: “Post 9/11, I became convinced that Islamist extremism was the security issue of our time. People can agree or disagree with the decisions which I took and the emphasis I put on the partnership with the USA, but I took them not in defiance of progressive politics but in furtherance of them.”

Iraq was full of Islamic extremism before it was invaded, of course.

[Lewis]

In other words, it gave him an excuse to live up to that horrendous 'Chicago Speech' he made in 1999. Twat.

[Boydy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKnAiAlKnBE

What a lovely man. He's like a kind old grandad. I'd love a kind old grandad running the country.

[Toby]

Remember when people said that about Roy Hodgson?

[Boydy]

No, I don't.

[Kikó]

Roy would do a job as PM.

[phonics]

675993076561797120

I'm sure he's a Lizard in a suit or something.

[Lee]

He'd be a fucking disaster as Tory leader. He's been to the Gordon Brown School of Looking a Wanker in Public.

[phonics]

http://usvsth3m.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/MiftnyD.gif

[Raoul Duke]

He also doesn't blink. Definitely an illuminati space lizard/robot.

[Lewis]

He'd be a fucking disaster as Tory leader. He's been to the Gordon Brown School of Looking a Wanker in Public.

He's been to the Gordon Brown School of everything.

[Jimmy Floyd]

When they all stood in the same weird fashion at Conference I was beginning to think Icke might have had a point.

[Boydy]

Why does he always have that weird spaced out look like he doesn't know where he is or what the fuck is going on?

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's probably a symptom of being at the absolute extreme end of knowing absolutely every minute detail of where he is and what is going on, and what that means for his leadership chances.

I think he's a genius but his obsession with being leader is going to cost him and if not him, then the Tories. That said Theresa May would be far worse. Boris to the rescue.

[phonics]

How does the Leadership vote work for the Cons? Membership vote or is it MP selection?

[Disco]

The parliamentary party vote do they not?

[Lee]

It's probably a symptom of being at the absolute extreme end of knowing absolutely every minute detail of where he is and what is going on, and what that means for his leadership chances.

I think he's a genius but his obsession with being leader is going to cost him and if not him, then the Tories. That said Theresa May would be far worse. Boris to the rescue.

He is a brilliant politician but people just don't like him. May is hateful but definitely has a supporter base. She'd tank at a General Election though, more so than Osborne. Johnson gives the Tories another couple of terms, I reckon.

[Lewis]

'Boris' is rubbish. Putting Sajid Javid up against a self-indulgent, middle class Labour Party would be pretty good.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Boris has won London twice against Ken's IRA machine, he'd piss any general election. He also polls the best of any politician by an absolute mile.

[Lewis]

He won it at the height of Davemania, and isn't Zac 'Out of Touch' Goldsmith currently level-ish with local curry-muncher made good Sadiq Khan? He would have the piss ripped out of him at a general election. He's a twat.

[Boydy]

Fucking hell, Lewis.

[ItalAussie]

http://usvsth3m.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/MiftnyD.gif

He looks like Ollie Reeder, but gone badly to seed.

[Pavel]

http://usvsth3m.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/MiftnyD.gif

Like an evil Dylan Moran, thinking up a not quite fantastic way to tax air.

[phonics]

Interesting article on how we spent hundreds of millions on Aid for Yemen only to support the Saudi's in blowing it all to shit.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/yemen/12048207/British-aid-and-military-policy-pursuing-different-ends-in-Yemen.html

[Lewis]

The point of overseas aid is to be seen spending it. Having it blown up means they have something else to spend it on.

[Boydy]

675993076561797120

:D

Ha.

[Henry]

That's brilliant. :D

I'm not buying this "political genius" stuff either. He's a fuckup.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Who would you rate as the most competent politician currently operating in one of the Westminster parties?

[Henry]

Alex Salmond is probably the best politician at the moment.

[John Arne]

Alex Salmond is probably the best politician at the moment.

Wasn't Salmond ready to march Scotland into financial oblivion last year?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11483905/Nicola-Sturgeon-admits-independence-oil-figures-were-wrong.html

[Henry]

I'm not talking about being in agreement with him.

[Jimmy Floyd]

My answer is Gove, by the way. Ed Balls would have competed for the title, but, you know.

[Spammer]

Gove is regarded by pretty much everyone working in a school as having no idea what he was doing or having a clue about schools. Listening to him talk, he never really seemed to. Not sure how his new job's going. A Yougov survey focusing specifically on teachers suggested that while 33% of teachers supported the Tories at the last election, it was down to about 15% last year. He even turned Tories away. He was hated in schools for being completely out of touch.

[Jimmy Floyd]

That's the problem with teachers, they think it's about them.

[Spammer]

:lol:

You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

[Davgooner]

Jim, respect the profession.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Teachers have acted the same throughout British history, ranging from mild fury when Labour are in charge to total apoplectic rage when the Tories are. Mostly politicians steer well clear, but Gove had the balls to take them on - not saying he got everything right, but he made a very good stab at improving the school system - moving the emphasis away from the ideological purity of process and towards better outcomes - and the response from the teaching masses was predictable.

And as long as teachers continue to have the attitude that they and only they know how education should happen on a micro and macro level, we'll keep on needing more Goves. Pity Dave bottled it before the election really.

[Davgooner]

Academies though. What a cluster-fuck.

[Spammer]

Teachers have acted the same throughout British history, ranging from mild fury when Labour are in charge to total apoplectic rage when the Tories are.

Either that, or maybe different teachers behave in different ways because they're different people and not a homogeneous mass. You can talk about the unions as a reference point but it just doesn't make sense if you're talking about every specific teacher. It's a bit dangerous really, when you assume anything about specific teachers or relate to them when you're talking about the unions. The unions will always moan - that's their job, and it's the same with any other profession.

Edit: This is probably largely a response to the daft "all teachers are like this, all teacher are like that" shite you came out with earlier.


Mostly politicians steer well clear, but Gove had the balls to take them on

Steer well clear of what, exactly? Reform? It's in constant reform. One of the things so annoying about working in schools is that everything's always changing. It's a political hot potato, everyone who turns up wants to look like they're changing it all and the reference points they often work with get canned and new ones come in regularly. You mean free schools/academies?


not saying he got everything right, but he made a very good stab at improving the school system - moving the emphasis away from the ideological purity of process and towards better outcomes - and the response from the teaching masses was predictable.

What better outcomes are you on about? Grades?

The problem was that the attitude he wanted in schools was out of touch with what it's like to actually teach. You can reduce everything down to 'ooh we got a 10% increase in GCSE A-C grades this year = win' but it's not as simple as that because, you know, you can't reduce people down to a bunch of numbers on a piece of paper, and you can't help the kids with grades without considering their circumstances. Focusing on 'traditional methods and discipline' as he seemed to call it, just ends up fucking up entirely when kids get disillusioned by the whole process as a result of how it's being done. It's easy to talk as clinically as he did when you're not in the classroom but it's inhumane when you're actually on individual terms with the kids involved, which is something he never seemed to appreciate. It'd probably work in the kind of schools he went to, mind you, with the kind of kids that go to those schools. Try it with a bunch of kids from the local estate though it's just unhelpful and counter-productive.

[Boydy]

Bring back the cane.

[Spammer]

They'll come back with a knife.

[Lewis]

Teachers and health professionals must be the only workers whose unions exist for us rather than to defend their own conditions. God bless them all. Michael Gove actually provided teachers with a means of escaping his micro-managing, but then they moaned like shit about free schools as well (they should let business into those whilst Labour are on their arse), so fuck them.

[John]

Weren't you a teacher's assistant for about fifteen minutes, Hammer?

[Spammer]

No, teacher. 3 years Ed Studies and PGCE. Worked in schools throughout. Partner was a teacher for 3 years after I left.

Lovely contribution though. Ad hominem bollocks is lovely to see.

[John]

Predictable. Better than this.


:lol:

You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

I know a load of teachers, mostly Primary but a couple of Secondary, and have been seeing one on and off for a few years now. The education system is obviously different in Scotland than it is in England so I can't speak to that but they all reckon that teachers who work together end up operating in a sort of hive mind. The older ones, who are more plentiful, are far more likely to kick up a fuss when a change affects them personally than the younger ones, who go the opposite way, but generally speaking they all moan about the same things in the same ways.

That's why I was querying your experience, because what you've said goes against everything I've heard about teachers from numerous teachers in numerous schools.

Don't let that get in the way of your pathetic, precious twattery, though. It's genuinely good fun.

[Boydy]

To be fair to Hammer, you did basically just have a go at him and accused him of having next to no experience when you were wrong about that.

[John]

I wasn't having a go. I knew he'd studied it at length because I remember that excellent essay he wrote about the kid who's gran had died or whatever it was, I just remember him becoming disillusioned with the whole thing and deciding he had to do something else much quicker than he apparently did.

[Spammer]

Sorry, what twattery? I responded to a borderline offensive comment but not taking it seriously, and I clarified a further response in my next post.

You've gone and explained your position on it and interactions with teachers - which is fair enough - but only bothered to do it after questioning my experience. Why not just explain your perspective in the first place instead of doing that? Who's the twat again?

[Boydy]

You both have valid points so be nice and stop calling each other names.

[John]

That was a general point. Any time you're questioned on anything you get chippy and precious. It's a running theme, and it's twattery.

That said, if you're going to get this irked by it you probably shouldn't have a post like the following as your opening contribution.


:lol:

You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

[Spammer]

That wasn't my opening contribution, if you read the thread. That was my laughing off Jimmy's flippant response to the point I made.

[John]

You're right. It was your second post. That makes a huge difference.

Enough childish nonsense.

[Boydy]

I don't see what was so wrong with this post by Hammer:

:lol:

You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Considering it was in response to this by Jim:

That's the problem with teachers, they think it's about them.

I think you're being a bit of a tool here, John.

[John Arne]

Yup. John has the first pop, then goes off on one at Hammer for responding. Bit weird.

[Spammer]

Erm, yeah. I think the context does make a difference. Look at what he suggested, which was directed at teachers, and look at the quote in response. Its a fair bit different to just turning up out of nowhere to have a pop at people and then getting to the point afterward, like some people do ;)

[John]

I don't see what was so wrong with this post by Hammer:

There's nothing wrong with it, as long as you don't then go on to be a precious twat about someone daring to question you about five posts later.


Erm, yeah. I think the context does make a difference. Look at what he suggested, which was directed at teachers, and look at the quote in response. Its a fair bit different to just turning up out of nowhere to have a pop at people and then getting to the point afterward, like some people do ;)

Again, I wasn't having a pop. I remembered you binning off the teaching far quicker than would seem reasonable for someone who was actually taking classes themselves. I didn't think you were an actual teacher, hence 'teacher's assistant', and I didn't think you were at it long, hence 'fifteen minutes'. If you're insecure enough to mistake glib phrasing for me having a go at you then that's fine, but it's your problem, not mine.

Had you responded to that without that bizarre 'ad hominem' shit I wouldn't have called you precious, and there we are.

[Boydy]

He'd made a decent and informed post as his last one in the thread before you came in and then you tried to undermine him by saying he'd not even been a teacher and had only been in a classroom for a very short time. Just admit you've acted the cunt and move on or at least stop trying to defend it.

[Lewis]

Teachers are wankers though. Let's not miss that important point.

[Toby]

Letter writers to The National in full caricature mode today:


I WONDER if your readers can help me ?

I often wonder about who or what decides the items and priorities for The News, but tonight my puzzlement plumbed new depths. The first 12 – yes twelve – minutes of the BBC 6 O’Clock News were devoted to what was portrayed as a tremendous British achievement (Major Tim Peake, the first British astronaut to visit the ISS). Union Jacks everywhere, live coverage of the astronaut’s family and friends at the launch, coverage of the excitement at the astronaut’s former primary school, etc etc.

My first thoughts were that this was the BBC just following a Government line, to promote Britishness: after all we were told that the Prime Minister had been glued to his TV for the launch. But Channel 4 News followed suit at 7pm.

I had understood that many astronauts from different countries have for years been ascending to the International Space Station, courtesy of Russian launch capability, to assist with research projects, and expand the Space Station. So why the tremendous importance of this evening’s news, the excessive prioritisation of what is a very small event, one of a continuum on the international stage, as if it was something truly, uniquely, important ?

Gordon Brown
North Kessock, Black Isle


SO the GB taxpayer has sent the first Briton Tim Peake into space.

Born in Sussex, we wish him and his fellow cosmonauts well. Imagine if our intrepid spaceman were to come from Scotia? But take heart fellow Scots, his wife Rebecca hails from Perthshire.

Sad perhaps that under the Scottish Beeb’s stewardship, Rebecca’s Scottish connection was never mentioned, although STV had the decency to acknowledge the fact.

While munching my Pittenweem fish supper, I can’t help feeling for our poor cosmonauts, tucking into toothpaste tube-and vacuum-packed nourishment 250 miles above us.

Bob Harper
Anstruther

[Lewis]

I'm not sure what the big deal with 'Major Tim' is. We've had an astronaut before.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The National is an absolutely awe-inspiring idea/concept/newspaper. All credit to it.

[Boydy]

Simon Danczuk's been caught sexting a 17 year old. :D

[Byron]

The fact that he's MP for Rochdale somehow manages to make it worse.

[Lewis]

The MELTDOWN over Sir Lynton Crosby is funny. It's only a knighthood. It's not like he's bought his way into the Lords where he can have an actual say.

[phonics]

http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article7097614.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/sophena.jpg

#tick

[Jimmy Floyd]

Is 'sexting' an actual thing? It sounds like something my mum would say to cover all hobbies performed by people under 30.

[Magic]

Those eyebrows doe...:sick:

[Magic]

Her Twitter has been deleted. :(

[John Arne]

Is 'sexting' an actual thing? It sounds like something my mum would say to cover all hobbies performed by people under 30.

Of course it's a real thing. Why would you think otherwise?

[Bartholomert]

Is 'sexting' an actual thing? It sounds like something my mum would say to cover all hobbies performed by people under 30.

I can confirm, I am an excellent sexter.

[John Arne]

Also, what is wrong with sexting with a 17yr old girl? Obviously, it's creepy, but there is nothing wrong with it, really (unless he's married, I guess).
Or was the young lady not asking for the sexting?

[Toby]

Of course it's a real thing. Why would you think otherwise?

I expect it's one of those things where yes, the activity takes place, but nobody who does it calls it that at the time. I've certainly never seen the word "sexting" used outside of tabloid journalism.

[Boydy]

She'd applied for a job at his constituency office, I read. I think she did carry it on with him though. But still, it's fucking creepy and not the sort of thing elected representatives should be doing.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I meant 'Is it an actual term that people use?', not 'Do people ever send text messages containing sexual content'. You morons.

[Toby]

Don't throw anybody else in just because John Arne struggles with context.

[phonics]

I'd put it in the bag of words that only papers use like 'Romp'. Who has ever had something they'd refer to as a romp?

[John Arne]

She'd applied for a job at his constituency office, I read. I think she did carry it on with him though. But still, it's fucking creepy and not the sort of thing elected representatives should be doing.

Ah ok, yeah, if she applied for a position then he really shouldn't be taking it towards that. At the same time though, I don't see why an elected official can't be sexting a 17yr old, as long as they are both consenting - yeah it's creepy, but being an elected official shouldn't exclude you from being a creep.

[John Arne]

I meant 'Is it an actual term that people use?', not 'Do people ever send text messages containing sexual content'. You morons.

Yes, people use it.


Don't throw anybody else in just because John Arne struggles with context.

Do bore off.

[Toby]

I'll have to assume you're precious about it because you're now worried you might have embarrassed yourself in using it.

[Lewis]

Simon Danczuk is a cretin, so lol at this even if he probably hasn't done anything wrong.

[Raoul Duke]

The Tories have played an absolute blinder - on NYE they drop the FCA's investigation into banking culture, then throw this grenade into Labour's midst so they've got to fight on multiple fronts.

[Lewis]

They've started this fire in Dubai as well to keep the news busy.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Apparently it started when Oliver Letwin tried to burn some secret papers.

[Luca]

Plenty of dead politicians were probably saved by the fact that the Internet didn't exist when they were around.

Pierre Elliot "the State has no business in the bedrooms of the nation" Trudeau would have been balls-deep in all kinds of sexting. Lyndon Johnson, too.

[Reg]

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/11898677_887135684674770_7175789310613444028_n.png ?oh=b5437e1cdd8564655ca82473bec7b754&oe=571748C5

Bloody hell.

[Davgooner]

"But they have widescreen TVs."

[Yevrah]

Are those percentages?

If so, simply not having that more than a quarter of kids in this country live in anything that could reasonably be described as poverty.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've gone and looked at the bloody 52 page report and those figures are the best performing 14 countries in the world, plus the arbitrary addition of UK and USA, and the number is the percentage of children who were below 60% of the median income in 2012. So it's basically a particular measure of inequality, rather than poverty.

Spain scores a healthy 36.3, and Greece 40.5, not forgetting our pals from Iceland on 31.6.

[Yevrah]

I've gone and looked at the bloody 52 page report and those figures are the best performing 14 countries in the world, plus the arbitrary addition of UK and USA, and the number is the percentage of children who were below 60% of the median income in 2012. So it's basically a particular measure of inequality, rather than poverty.

A triumph for all involved then. :rolleyes:

Who's funding this fucking wank?

[Reg]

Well that's incredibly silly then. It was from Bernie's Facebook.

25% did seem rather shocking.

[Boydy]

How do you define poverty then?

[Jimmy Floyd]

A triumph for all involved then. :rolleyes:

Who's funding this fucking wank?

Unicef. http://www.unicef-irc.org/publications/pdf/rc12-eng-web.pdf

I'm sure they have a point but the tone of the entire report is 'everything is absolutely terrible, even when it isn't'.

[Boydy]

Median income in the UK in 2012, according to Wikipedia was £21,000. 60% of that would be £12,600. Good luck running a household with kids on that.

[John]

Yet millions do.

[Lee]

What's wrong with it? I've not read it but presumably it's a measure of poverty applied equally across all countries included in the report.

Or is nothing wrong with it and we're just dealing with the "NOBODY IN THE UK KNOWS WHAT REAL POVERTY IS TRY LIVING IN ETHIOPIA!!!!" brigade?

[Lee]

Yet millions do..
Yes but at huge disadvantage (cultural as well as material) compared to most. It's relative poverty. I wouldn't fancy it.

[Boydy]

Or is nothing wrong with it and we're just dealing with the "NOBODY IN THE UK KNOWS WHAT REAL POVERTY IS TRY LIVING IN ETHIOPIA!!!!" brigade?

It's exactly that.

[Yevrah]

It's exactly that.

Personally I object to a report that claims over a quarter of kids in England live in poverty, when it's manifestly not the case. There's no doubt a serious issue to be raised here, but I don't think reports like that do any favours in doing so.

[Boydy]

Personally I object to a report that claims over a quarter of kids in England live in poverty, when it's manifestly not the case. There's no doubt a serious issue to be raised here, but I don't think reports like that do any favours in doing so.


How do you define poverty then?

Answer that then.

Poverty has to be measured relatively since the rest of society's earnings and wealth dictate what everything costs.

[Lewis]

CHILD POVERTY (as measured by these idiots) went down during the recession because 'real' wages depreciated faster than benefits.

[Yevrah]

Answer that then.

Poverty has to be measured relatively since the rest of society's earnings and wealth dictate what everything costs.

It needs to be measured relative to the actual cost and you can't just do it on a blanket basis like Unicef have done - there are massive disparities across the UK, for example. I appreciate it's easier for them to produce terrifying bar charts without leaving their stats bunker by using that method, but they've basically produced a report where most, if not all, of the "top 10" countries (let alone the rest) look shit. Great.

[Davgooner]

I prefer my poor people to live in cardboard boxes under bridges. Some of this lot have cars!

Feel the Bern you cunts.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Corbyn is donning everyone with this reshuffle. It'll ultimately be another step along the road to the end of the Labour party, but he's lolling his internal critics off a cliff, Stalin style.

[Boydy]

And everyone seemingly cares more about a shadow cabinet reshuffle than what the actual government are doing.

Rob the poor and give to the rich – housing policy for 2016

http://gu.com/p/4fgba?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

[Henry]

Corbyn appears to have backed down on getting rid of Hilary Benn, which is disappointing, whatever the reasons.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Now becoming clear that this is less a reshuffle than a purge. Corbz people are actually briefing that various ministers have been fired for 'disloyalty'. This is brilliant. It's how 1930s Moscow must have felt, but without the millions strong body count and mass starvation.

[Lewis]

Who decided that anybody should care about Jess Phillips? She's just a thick loudmouth.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Apparently this was the 'disloyalty' wot did for Pat McFadden:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CX_oxNzWMAAyBrb.jpg:large

Seumas Milne's utterly bizarre fingerprints all over it.

[Toby]

Not sure it warrants a thread just yet and not sure where else to post it:

684565990902992896

[John Arne]

They've successful tested a hydrogen bomb. China won't be happy.

[Henry]

I'm skeptical that they've managed a H-bomb, given that their previous devices were supposedly a bit crude.

On the reshuffle, I imagine Dave would also sack people who forcibly disagreed with him in public.

[Magic]

Seoul seems to think they only tested an atomic bomb (Phew!).

Also I've always wanted to refer to a nation by it's capital city like they do in the Bond films :drool:

[Lewis]

It's pretty lol that North Korea has worse nuclear capabilities than the United States in 1945. What is even the point?

[Disco]

I did think it was a bit much to call developing 60 year old technology 'intimidation'.

[Magic]

Lest we forget how potent that technology might be if aimed at Seoul.

[Davgooner]

The fact it's so cack-handed is arguably scarier. Someone will forget to replace a battery on a UPS and the whole place will go up.