The UK Politics Thread [Wot did Jez do now...]

[Disco]

Baz in the Late Night Thread and somewhere else I've already forgotten.



I'm calling a "bread roll" a barm cake.

Whereas in real life a bread roll is one of those hard ones that there are basket and baskets of on package holidays, that you have with soup.

And baps are breasts.

https://media.giphy.com/media/d3mlE7uhX8KFgEmY/source.gif

[Boydy]

Oh yeah, I did see that. I'm going to argue my use of it was more appropriate than Baz's.

[Baz]

Mine was animated though.

[Spikey M]

That's the third time in a few days that picture has been posted, mix it up a bit chaps.

https://secure.static.tumblr.com/d8474a982203e37008ec4734bd192de7/fzto2bb/6Tfo3r2u5/tumblr_static_tumblr_static_7ptg3yw6zrwgwk0s0skoos 0s0_640.jpg

[Lewis]

https://s8.postimg.org/kb5erolwl/Robert_Mugabe.jpg

[Spikey M]

http://www.ewrestlingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/BOOKER-T-Exercise1-1.jpg

[Disco]

InsistentUnpleasantCatbird

[Jimmy Floyd]

That Ian Dunt MELTDOWN Lewis was waiting for appears to have happened.

[Lewis]

There doesn't appear to be anything out of the ordinary, which tells you all you need to know, so maybe there needs to be more stringent criteria.

Has Nick Cohen re-tweeted it approvingly?
*Yes*
Has Alex Massie re-tweeted it approvingly?
*Yes*
Has that boring @twlldun cunt chipped in to win the approval of the aforementioned actual journalists?
*Yes*
Has somebody tagged J. K. Rowling in the replies?
*Yes*
Is he still bald?
*Yes*
MELTDOWN

[Jimmy Floyd]

I was referring to the 'sick and tired' tweet where he tells northerners to get down on their knees and be grateful, although didn't realise it was actually from yesterday. Still, someone from the Guardian still managed to spin a column (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/14/leave-voters-london-voted-remain-eu) out of it, so the mechanism still works.

[Lewis]

The Kingdom of Northumbria could use its shale wealth to build a wall and leave London to the Muslims. Let's 'ave it.

[Lewis]

Still, someone from the Guardian still managed to spin a column (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/14/leave-voters-london-voted-remain-eu) out of it, so the mechanism still works.

In a long, long, long list of possible names, I think she is currently the most pointless commentator in the business (she also neglects to mention her school on LinkedIn, which usually means it was an expensive one).

I had an idea for something like the 'Giles Coren Test' to judge the quality and worth of political commentators (the theory being that nobody in world history has ever come across a news item and felt the need to read his take on it, so their worth is relative to how far you would go to read their thoughts were they not pushed by like-minded editor twats) but really it should be named after her.

[Boydy]

Having looked at that Ian Dunt fella's twitter and read his bio, I was just thinking there are far too many fucking pointless 'commentators'. Half the stuff you get is no better than tumblr drivel.

[Lewis]

Owen Jones seems to be churning them out daily these days, which would at least explain why he has been too busy these past couple of years to re-visit his Venezuela articles.

[Lewis]

Arron Banks is on the Seethe Shift tonight, and he's doing a bang-up job.


Many others got involved in the back and forth, including Charlotte Hennessy, who lost her dad James in the Hillsborough disaster when she was aged six. In response to Arron Banks’ tweet that Hillsborough was "an accident", she tweeted: "It was a completely preventable disaster caused by gross negligence that resulted in 96 people unlawfully killed. Actually."

If you had to get all of that into one word, Charlotte, love, which would you use?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Taking on Hillsborough only ends one way.

[Lewis]

It's pretty lol really. He says (albeit in his usual gobshite way) that people use it for political ends, doubles down on it, and then everybody proves him right by saying that UKIP done the Peterlooo Massacre. Still, he's got Tim Montgomerie (another boring cunt you would never seek out if his prominence vanished) crying into his Babycham, so whatever.

[phonics]

His comments would be fine if it weren't for the fact that the bloke he's bankrolling thought it was important enough to pretend his mate died in it. This Nuttall bloke comes across as a bigger retard than anyone else they've put up yet.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yeah, dear old Nigel is actually a political and intellectual colossus when you look at the rest of their offering.

[GS]

You couldn't vote for Nuttall, really. You'd think it would be almost impossible to row back from this sort of fundamental dishonesty.

[phonics]

Have you seen Politics in the last few years?

[GS]

Have you seen Politics in the last few years?

It's not like he can claim context, change in circumstances, new facts coming to light, being misled by staff etc.

He made this claim in 2011 as well. It's outright, fundamental dishonesty. It'll stick more than, as an example, John McDonnell deflecting criticism of his past comments on the IRA.

[phonics]

Inspired by ol Donny Nigel Farage has gone on a bit of a mad'n on Twitter. I thought I voted yes or no to remain in the European Union but apparently I was voting for fishing rights. Weird.

[GS]

It's difficult to articulate just how utterly dreadful the key political players in Northern Irish politics are now. Not that we were laden with political heavyweights in the past, but the dearth of politicians with genuine ability is fucking galling.

Arlene Foster continues to show herself up in a way that you'd genuinely be better just shutting the entire devolved administration down than letting her back in.

I saw a poll that had the DUP down by 3.3% to potential second place behind Sinn Fein, which would be fucking hilarious. She's already resorted to name-checking Gerry Adams several times to try and scare everybody that ONE OF THEM might end up in charge. It's only a matter of time before the "Keep Arlene F1rst Minister" posters start going back up again.

[Yevrah]

Regional bollocks on Question Time. Ugh. Loads of bitter Scots we should really be binning off at the same time as the European Union.

[GS]

Not just regional bollocks - it's from fucking Glasgow.

The SNP's flagrant hypocrisy should see them routed, yet there they sit on 47% in current polling estimates. I suspect a significant number of them have drunk the kool-aid so deeply as to be literally irretrievable to a position of sense.

[Jimmy Floyd]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38996179

:roflol:

[Boydy]

I knew what that was going to be before I clicked on it.

[Lewis]

Somebody somewhere has taken sixteen million remain voters, assumed that they all desperately want another crack at it, and then - because they are obviously an idiot - decided that only Tony Blair ('He won three elections!') can entice the other couple of million needed to make it a reality. If you ever wanted a working definition of a Proper Political Man, the extent to which they fail to recognise just how discredited he is would be something to go off.

[Boydy]

He could maybe win another election but he couldn't overturn Brexit.

[Lewis]

He's deranged, and the newspapers would pull him to pieces if he made a proper return.

[GS]

He could maybe win another election but he couldn't overturn Brexit.

No, he couldn't.

His disapproval ratings are so horrendous that you'd struggle to find anybody within the political mainstream who's as toxic. He's at about -60 personally, and his time as PM is -27 or -28.

There's also "but Iraq, mate", which renders him a mess. He's finished as a serious figure, and he'd be massacred at the polls if he tried it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Isn't this him trying to launch the Liquid Lunch With A.C. Grayling Party?

Or whatever else they have in store to replace Labour. 'New Labour' is quite a good name.

[Kikó]

I'd rather vote tory than a Labour led by Blair.

[Yevrah]

I still fail to see how he'd do worse than Corbyn.

[Raoul Duke]

I'd probably vote for Blair ahead of Corbyn, to be honest.

[Shindig]

I'd vote for Tony ... maybe. The brexit stuff is a bit annoying now, though. Have we had any straw polls on it since the vote? The only way a re-run would feel correct is if public perception had changed significantly.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The polls all suggest that no one on either side has really changed their view.

[Boydy]

I'd rather vote tory than a Labour led by Blair.
No you wouldn't. Unless living in London and working in the City really has got to you.



I still fail to see how he'd do worse than Corbyn.


I'd probably vote for Blair ahead of Corbyn, to be honest.
Exactly.

Not that I'd vote for Blair ahead of Corbyn but I imagine there are a lot of people who would.

[Shindig]

Tony Blair would get more joy if he just put '1997' up on kickstarter.

[Yevrah]

The thing that seems to have been completely forgotten about Blair is that he/his team were fucking good at politics, which won't have changed overnight, no matter how toxic the polls (rofl) say he is.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They may not have changed but the world has. If a fresh, baggage-free Tony Blair rocked up now he'd still be laughed out of town as a fake. In the 90s, people were willing to buy into the fake.

There's 20 years of fatigue at the Alastair Campbell, Peter Mandelson style of doing things.

[Baz]

"Iraq, mate" should have been the end of his time.

[Byron]

Even if it was Blair v Corbyn, I'd rather spoil my ballot.

[Shindig]

It kinda was, Baz.

[Baz]

He's in the news today. :cab:

[GS]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2cPQPBjL3MCZlVpM3RkRjhvU2s/view

42% of Remain voters want the government to get on with it - only 33% disagree. It's done now. If you ran it again, Leave would win by a much bigger margin.

I maintain that we'll look back in a few years' time and be amazed it was only 52%.

[Byron]

I'd count myself as part of that 42%. It's done lads, lets just let the government get on with things.

[Kikó]

No you wouldn't. Unless living in London and working in the City really has got to you.


London is red mate.

[Boydy]

Only parts of it. And people working in the City don't tend to be.

[phonics]

Ukip member caught on CCTV urinating and trying to push way into OAP's home in Stoke Central

http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/video-ukip-member-caught-on-cctv-urinating-and-trying-to-push-way-into-oap-s-home-in-stoke-central/story-30147297-detail/story.html#IAHV2QfkqwXBvmGR.99

If they still win this...

[Offshore Toon]

Its really not that bad.

[Jimmy Floyd]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39042876

Here he comes, like a shit-eating federalist Grim Reaper.

[GS]

His every appearance makes me more sure that the chance to leave had to be grasped before we descended into the federalist nightmare.

[Disco]

I see no reason why we shouldn't just do what the French and Spanish do and simply ignore anything that's vaguely inconvenient. Ironic that we may have the Germans almost on our side for that one.

[Lewis]

If we've signed up to a load of liabilities then whatever, but surely - as a net contributor since however long ago - we have accumulated some serious assets that have to be measured against them? There must be plenty of Europe-funded infrastructure projects all over the continent that we could have packed up and shipped to Stoke.

[phonics]

Lol at that Tony Blair statement. Such an utter wanker but it does go to show how quickly you can shut a story down when you're competent.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Douglas Carswell is still trying to realign UKIP. Good luck with that, mate.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Pretty much the ideal results for the nation in both by-elections. Jezza marches on :drool:

[phonics]

I did lol at a rather unhelpful comment from the Labour Press Team. Something along the lines of 'Considering we're 20 points down in the polls, to come within 2000 votes of the Torys is an excellent achievement"

[Lewis]

UKIP wiping Labour out in the North was always such a nothing scare. The only way that could have happened is if they had ignored THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE, and you got a single interest grievance movement going on like in Scotland, but even then the people they put up would inevitably conspire to turn the locals against them.

[Lewis]

Paul Mason has written a belting hot take (https://medium.com/mosquito-ridge/labour-won-stoke-jamie-reed-lost-copeland-b21b85662e9e#.aclzx28dp) that is more than worth your time. Say what you want about the BBC being a bunch of communists, but keeping a lid on these sort of adolescent witterings must have been a constant battle.

[Lewis]

UKIP wiping Labour out in the North was always such a nothing scare. The only way that could have happened is if they had ignored THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE, and you got a single interest grievance movement going on like in Scotland, but even then the people they put up would inevitably conspire to turn the locals against them.

Then again, if Nigel (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/24/nigel-farage-admitted-chants-english-football-songs-second-world/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw) was to stage another comeback:


Nigel Farage has admitted that he chanted football songs about winning the Second World War at his estranged German wife and said that living with him was 'very difficult'.

:lewis:

[Jimmy Floyd]

That Paul Mason piece is extraordinary. And he accuses other people of pre-scripting their takes.

I think my favourite kind of Ian Dunt seethe (and Ian Dunt is now a byword for any number of London based media twitterati) is the kind where he seethes at Jeremy Corbyn for daring to not agree with him about everything.

[Lewis]

Tweeting it as a response to 'Brexit delusion' was a nice touch as well.

[Jimmy Floyd]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39090327

That's right, the answer is David fucking Miliband.

[Lewis]

I saw Douglas Alexander spouting off earlier (via Douglas Carswell lolling at him). It's over, lads.

[Lewis]

Speaking of which, what was Sadiq the Magnificent doing in Scotland talking about Jocko nationalism?


There's no difference between those who try to divide us on the basis of whether we're English or Scottish and those who divide us on the basis of our background, race, or religion.

Well, there obviously is, seeing as you said that to the Scottish Labour Party.

[Lewis]

Mossad have offed Gerald Kaufman (which makes Ken Clarke Father of the House), so Jezza has another easy by-election to help TURN THE TIDE. :drool:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Manchester Gorton isn't it? Probably a scummy Remain seat. No threat from the evil Tories (who are wrecking the country, again) there.

Yesterday I had an epiphany that the Remainoblairs are actually the ones clinging to an imagined golden past that never really existed, and it changed my day for the better.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Actually, what am I saying. Timmy Farron's Barmy Army will piss Gorton.

[Lewis]

'What about if we got John Major to warn that it might be a mistake?'
'Yeah. Yeah, that should make people think again.'

[Jimmy Floyd]

Some bloke on the local news was just demanding we avoid a hard Brexit or his corrupt construction business will suffer.

I would love to know what this mythical soft Brexit involves and how they get it past Juncker et al. What sort of negotiating position would that be?

[Lewis]

I find it much easier to interpret 'Soft Brexit' (which I take to mean something like the fabled Norway Model) not so much as only half-leaving, but setting us up to be half-way back in.

[GS]

I find it much easier to interpret 'Soft Brexit' (which I take to mean something like the fabled Norway Model) not so much as only half-leaving, but setting us up to be half-way back in.

Quite. We'll stay in the single market, pay into budgets, accept EU laws, accept jurisdiction of their court, and continue to accept free movement.

The argument would then be that we're doing accepting all of those things "without a seat at the table", we have " no influence " and are getting shafted. We must, therefore, go back in to protect "British companies and British workers".

It hasn't escaped them that soft Brexit would be denying the fundamentals of the referendum, rather they've adopted the hopeful socialist view of the world that the electorate will realise it was wrong and come running to them to fix it.

[Henry]

Whether the electorate realises it or not, it is wrong. I find myself agreeing with the principles of representative democracy more and more.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Henry joining forces with Weber and Schumpeter. Brexit really has opened up a whole new world of possibilities.

[GS]

Whether the electorate realises it or not, it is wrong. I find myself agreeing with the principles of representative democracy more and more.

Still tracking Twitter trends to determine if Jez is getting his message out?

[phonics]

Aaron Banks is running against Carswell. I can't believe we had a referendum based on the fear of these incompetent wankers WIPING OUT the traditional parties.

This is all apparently caused by Carswell refusing to put MAN OF THE PEOPLE Farage up for a knighthood.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Running against Carswell for what?

Arron Banks is a seriously delusional individual.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Oh, for Clacton. Banks would come third in that and the Tories would probably beat both of them. The Tories will end up winning 500 seats at this rate.

[Lewis]

I wouldn't say 'delusional', but you have to wonder what his game is. If I had a hundred million quid I would collect cars and wank my afternoons away, not set myself up as a market town version of that bent commie waxwork who bought the Evening Standard to get into parties. Talk about limited horizons.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Just sounds to me like an egomaniacal narcissist who wants in on a bit of fame and power. At least Farage got to where he is via a committed twenty-year chancing career, working his way up from grassroots chancing into the big leagues.

Banks/Farage will have a RIFT at some point which will be funny.

[Lewis]

I find Douglas Carswell increasingly annoying, stoating about thinking he's twenty years ahead of the Political Elite because he has a fifty quid Bitcoin certificate in his drawer. Twat.

[MartinSAFC]

Carswell is a twat and Nigel was right all along about him. He's nothing more than an opportunist, using UKIP as a vehicle for himself. Meanwhile:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAFtkdl6XW4

:nodd:

[Jimmy Floyd]

'He's nothing more than an opportunist, using UKIP as a vehicle for himself. Meanwhile...'

*massive thumbnail of Nigel Farage*

[MartinSAFC]

'He's nothing more than an opportunist, using UKIP as a vehicle for himself. Meanwhile...'

*massive thumbnail of Nigel Farage*

Of course Farage was using UKIP as a vehicle. But not for himself, for his cause. And given what he put into it, he has every right to. He didn't pretend to believe things he didn't, or join a party just to oppose everything. If we are to use your definition of 'opportunist' then pretty much anyone who achieves anything is an opportunist.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Whatever you say, Harold.

[Kikó]

Farage is like one of us. He gets us guv.

[MartinSAFC]

He's nothing like you, that's for sure. He's also nothing like the vast majority of working class people who vote for him and, amazingly, the thicko working classes seem to understand this. I'm as unsure as you as to how they figured it out. The truth is, what Nige espouses happens to chime with the thick working class, so that's a bit of luck.

[Kikó]

Okay Harold if you say so.

[MartinSAFC]

It's almsot as if a character stands out in a place like this.

[GS]

Local elections here tomorrow, which is another gigantic waste of time. If it's a choice between DUP/SF and direct rule, then direct rule it must be.

[GS]

Arlene Foster is presumably a sleeper agent for the other side. She's fucking dreadful.

[Lewis]

What is the point of there being two unionist parties? You could understand it if the Ulster Unionists were some ponce party, who were a million miles away from Team Paisley on everything other than unionism; but, other than a thin veneer of professionalism, there seems to be little difference between them. Is it just stubbornness and brand loyalty, with the former refusing to give up because they were there first?

[Boydy]

The DUP are a bunch of backwards theocrats. The UUP are pretty much just inoffensive middle class unionists now.

[GS]

Partly. The issue for the UUP is that they've never had a clear message as to whether they're an alternative to the DUP (i.e. you should vote for us because we think the same things as the other lot but aren't a shower of bastards) or whether they're a different type of unionism altogether; that is, more moderate, more 'inclusive', more 'liberal' in the sense that you could vote for them because you agree with their policy positions (excluding the constitutional question) even if you want a united Ireland.

They sort of went towards the latter in this campaign, with Nesbitt saying he'd give the SDLP a second preference vote (after his own party). The SDLP didn't really respond to that in the way they should have, which was unfortunate, but the media kept banging on about it yesterday in the coverage as if it was a major reason for their lack of seats. It wasn't, because there were quite a few examples of UUP votes transferring to the SDLP (the latter getting a couple of extra seats on the back of it) so it was something that evident in the voting pattern.

There was some discussion in unionist circles yesterday that there should be a realignment, but you can't have all of the unionists sitting under one party. Opinions are too diverse. Peter Robinson, for all his faults, was a good First Minister. Foster's arrogance is what has caused this - they were taken apart by a massive increase in nationalist turnout which was almost certainly driven by a desire to 'punish' her. I haven't even bothered with the RHI debacle and her refusal to stand aside. The best way of protecting the union is to make everybody happy with the status quo or, if not happy, at least not unhappy. She's managed to antagonise the other side to such an extent that she almost allowed SF to close a 5% and ten seat gap in the space of ten months.

If she had any decency, she'd resign because she's not clawing it back.

[Boydy]

Who do you think should replace her?

[Lewis]

You could easily have one unionist party, half of which was 'uncomfortable' with bumming. The Conservative Party has managed it easily enough. Then again, that has always been kept on the road by the threat of communism, so maybe they can be complacent over there until the Bishop of Rome starts coming over and talking a referendum up.

[GS]

Who do you think should replace her?

I don't know. The issue is that most of the big hitters, and viable replacements, are at Westminster rather than Stormont. At this point, I consider her successor to be a matter for a different day. She has to go because her credibility is shot through. Nobody on the nationalist side of the fence can, or should, take her seriously - and that's a pretty fundamental problem when the institutions demand mandatory coalition.

[Boydy]

What about Simon Hamilton? He seems like a fairly decent bloke (for a DUP member).

[Jimmy Floyd]

Nigel Dodds is a don.

[Lewis]

I see there was an NHS march/protest today. Are they getting rid of it or something?

[Shindig]

You can never have a happy NHS.

[GS]

What about Simon Hamilton? He seems like a fairly decent bloke (for a DUP member).

Hard to see how he'd be able to bring the nutter fringe along with him.

[Lewis]

I see there was an NHS march/protest today. Are they getting rid of it or something?

Today it was this (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39173396). It is literally just a hobby isn't it?

[GS]

It's entirely about making them feel better about themselves. I can reconcile myself to this if their mob continue to direct their energies into protest marches instead of winning elections.

[Lewis]

'It's my day off, Annie, can we not... Maybe another time?'
'Well, if the Mayor of London hates women. :rolleyes:'

[Shindig]

Today it was this (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39173396). It is literally just a hobby isn't it?

I've never seen so many women in one place with so many uncomfortable smiles.

[GS]

You'd think continuing to break manifesto promises would take up most of his time as well.

[GS]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/05/brexit-theresa-may-falklands-war-nhs-cuts?CMP=twt_gu

Timing.

It's interesting that she appears to think we should have acquiesced in the hostile invasion of the Falklands by Galtieri's mob, effectively abandoning them to fascist occupation. If she hates the country that much, perhaps she'd like to move to the Socialist Paradise that is the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela.

[Lewis]

Brexit is the new Falklands: in the 1980s, that war was described by the left as a distraction, a bellicose bauble to keep the attention away from much more important and lasting acts of government. That was true, but only half the story: it was also a way to appropriate the language of patriotism for a government that was the opposite of patriotic, utterly committed to breaking the bonds of nationhood that might make a person in the Cotswolds care about a person in Liverpool who lost their job.


The rights and the circumstances of the people in the Falkland Islands must be uppermost in our minds. There is no question in the Falkland Islands of any colonial dependence or anything of the sort. It is a question of people who wish to be associated with this country and who have built their whole lives on the basis of association with this country. We have a moral duty, a political duty and every other kind of duty to ensure that that is sustained.

639 The people of the Falkland Islands have the absolute right to look to us at this moment of their desperate plight, just as they have looked to us over the past 150 years. They are faced with an act of naked, unqualified aggression, carried out in the most shameful and disreputable circumstances. Any guarantee from this invading force is utterly worthless - as worthless as any of the guarantees that are given by this same Argentine junta to its own people.

Even though the position and the circumstances of the people who live in the Falkland Islands are uppermost in our minds - it would be outrageous if that were not the case - there is the longer-term interest to ensure that foul and brutal aggression does not succeed in our world. If it does, there will be a danger not merely to the Falkland Islands, but to people all over this dangerous planet.

Shut up, love.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Juxtaposition of those two passages makes you realise how poor the standard of discourse is now.

'A bellicose bauble', I mean fuck off back to Year 9 English.

[GS]

Typically, like all good socialists, it would be year nine English at her independent, fee paying school.

[Spammer]

She used a semi-colon in fairness to her.

[phonics]

They've gone and named the post-Brexit plan they're presenting to the African Commonwealth as 'Empire 2.0' :D

That'll go down well.

705674061016387584

Liam... mate...

[Jimmy Floyd]

They haven't. Mandarins opposed to it dubbed it as such.

FAKE NEWS and ALTERNATIVE FACTS from Remain Twitter as ever.

[phonics]

I read the quote from pro-leave Times, literally this morning.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/_TP_/edition/news/ministers-aim-to-build-empire-2-0-with-african-commonwealth-after-brexit-v9bs6f6z9?ni-statuscode=acsaz-307

[Jimmy Floyd]

'In a move described by Whitehall officials as Empire 2.0'

Whitehall officials are not the government. It's what I said.

[phonics]

What's a Mandarin as my vocab is out of date?

[Jimmy Floyd]

A civil servant.

Basically the government produces a plan, Whitehall officials opposed to the plan think 'oh no this is shit, you could call it Empire 2.0' and brief as such to the press, but I've seen a good 15 people on Remain Twitter (aka Twitter) this morning saying the government are outwardly calling it Empire 2.0, something not even UKIP would even contemplate. People just like to believe the most outrageous/extreme thing possible these days and this is how Trump and co get away with their shit.

[phonics]

Okay, could have done with just the explanation without the 'Trump is the lefts fault' but whatever.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'll be sure to PM you before my next post to double check the contents are to your tastes.

[GS]

Fox is right to the extent that other countries are ashamed of their conduct in the 20th century, and either pretend they're not / develop a false narrative about it all (France) or are still reluctant not to be seen to be atoning (Germany).

Aside from a smattering of wets who'll cite "empire, mate", the perception of your average member of the public is that we should be rightly proud of our record, particularly in the world wars.

We managed to avoid occupation / revolution / unfortunate collaboration unlike pretty much every other country in Europe bar the Swiss and the Swedes.

[Disco]

Didn't we occupy Palestine for 20 odd years? It all got sorted out in the end though so I doubt anyone remembers.

[Lewis]

We fucked it off because heroic Jewish settlers were doing to us what cowardly Palestinian terrorists do to them.

[Lewis]

The 'Empire 2.0' stuff is lol. Imagine prioritising trade agreements with countries whose language and legal systems are closest to ours. Racist madness.

[Lewis]

lol at Michael Heseltine. Norman Tebbit wins again.

[GS]

Imagine the CARNAGE if we'd joined the Euro like that nutter continued to predict up until a year ago.

[Pepe]

I am sure this fine piece will change the minds of some of you:

http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/03/07/515410682/why-i-decided-to-become-a-german-citizen-after-brexit?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20170307

[Lewis]

In fairness to her, she has lived there for ages (although lol at 'European identity' in any sort of German context). Everybody else is just this (http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/man-voting-to-stay-in-eu-because-he-thinks-hes-sophisticated-20160422108212).

[Jimmy Floyd]

Watching the Remain people on Twitter tie themselves in knots daily to try and crowdsource a way of reversing the referendum without openly declaring it as such (mainly, I think, through the vain hope that everyone has changed their minds) is great sport.

[Lewis]

As stupid as all the WILL OF THE PEOPLE stuff is, the Great British Public would presumably have more time for anybody who simply disagrees with it because nah mates you got it wrong than the passive-aggressive fannies hoping to patronise and shame us back in with second referendums and Tony Blair.

[Lewis]

The budget allocates '£435m for firms affected by increases in business rates, including £300m hardship fund for worst hit'. Why not just not increase them? Still, growth has been revised upwards, so lol at Europe.

[Pepe]

People still give a shit about growth?

[Jimmy Floyd]

While you're here, can you tell your mate Vicente Fox to do one please.

[Pepe]

Fox. :harold:

Does he still wear boots?

[Lewis]

People still give a shit about growth?

Insofar as it enables Brexit Britain to ANSWER ITS CRITICS.

[Pepe]

Fair enough.

I am not particularly well-versed in the EU, but what are the supposed advantages it brings to its members? I have a hard time thinking of any (beyond traveling without a visa/passport, but who cares about that,) while the negatives are much easier to see.

[Lewis]

Well, there you go.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The single market and the customs union, m8.

Remainers don't know what they are, just that we should stay in them and hence poureth forth the Orangina.

[Pepe]

Not sure those are positives. Similar agreements would exist without the eu in any case, since we are all on love with globalization and free trade and billionaires.

[Offshore Toon]

The single market and the customs union, m8.

Remainers don't know what they are, just that we should stay in them and hence poureth forth the Orangina.
Orangina has been making a comeback in the last couple of years. It would be a shame to see all that progress go to waste, but I only like seeing it for the nostalgia.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I loved it as a kid on holidays in France. Got some from Sainsbury's last year and it was frankly rank. The Space Jam of drinks.

[Offshore Toon]

They're in plastic bottles over here, aren't they?

[Raoul Duke]

This change to give contractors a bit of a beating is going to be interesting. There are loads of people in London who use it. Generally I see it as a way to get paid truckloads and not pay much tax, although obviously they don't have benefits like paid sick leave/pensions etc. Overall though I think they cream it big time. Wonder how much of a ruckus it'll kick up.

[Kikó]

I think the balance is sort of wrong so i understand changing it but you have zero rights as a contractor and you take the risk of being fired and having minimal notice. Companies hire people on contracts to have the flexibility and this will seriously reduce that market. My initial thoughts are they've skewed it too far the other way.

[Boydy]

If City Boy Kiko doesn't like it, it must be good.

[Kikó]

I'm not a contractor so it doesn't affect me.

I'm more arsed about the landlord changes as that's likely to be passed down onto renters like me.

[Raoul Duke]

I've worked with loads of people in tech who have this set-up.

My feeling overall is that it won't have much of an effect and (if it converts some contractors to perm) would probably be an net gain.

[Lewis]

Will Sir Gideon Osborne be a contractor at this investment fund? What a quality wheeze that is. Do you reckon they keep up the pretence of paying him for 'advice', like putting on pretend meetings where they let him hold court and pretend to take notes?

[Raoul Duke]

Once you're at that level you're basically just 'contacts' and 'influence'. You don't do any actual work other than lobbying.

It's my dream

[randomlegend]

6tlHGlz

Sorry if it's been posted (couldn't see it), but :lol:

[Boydy]

I can't see it.

[randomlegend]

Worked it out now (right?)

[Boydy]

Ha, yeah. Thought it might be that. :D

[Boydy]

https://i.redd.it/v5yezhuq57ky.gif

[phonics]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6dnFd1XMAAp4KI.jpg

Strong idea Tim, I've even got a good name for it. What do you think of 'Freedom of movement'? Catchy right?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Being pro Brexit doesn't mean you can't also be pro EU immigration.

[phonics]

Was absolutely never going to happen though was it? Your Harolds which was probably a good 20% (basing this off UKIP votes alone) of the leave vote would be in uproar.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Remain certainly tried to characterise the entire Leave vote as Farage disciples during the campaign. A sound strategy as those people are repellent, but I fear they've started believing their own myths.

[Byron]

And the Leave campaign tried to characterise Remainers as liberal whiners who hate Britain and themselves. Works both ways unfortunately.

[phonics]

Remain certainly tried to characterise the entire Leave vote as Farage disciples during the campaign. A sound strategy as those people are repellent, but I fear they've started believing their own myths.

Anyone who voted remain has been characterised as part of a metropolitan elite, chai latte drinking, enemy of the people that hates the working class and only voted for it out of deep-rooted self interest. What's your point?

UKIP win 15-20% of the vote pretty much across the country, the idea of their talking points not being of interest to voters on the subject of Europe just because you don't agree with their values is ignorant at best.

[Jimmy Floyd]

That there is no black and white in this, just a whole lot of grey.

[GS]

Both campaigns were dreadful. Either side claiming a moral high ground is deluded.

[phonics]

Farage spotted walking out of the Ecuadorian Embassy today

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6esq-YWcAMCHxf.jpg:large

God these people are so shit at lying. At least Blairs lot had some flair about lying to your face.

[Magic]

Hilarious.

People saying Ruth Davidson smashing John Swinney to pieces. Then I see people praising Swinney for his 'storming' performance destroying Davidson.

:cab:

[GS]

This NIC rise and the reaction to it is an interesting one. On one hand, it's an obvious breach of a manifesto pledge and there's no getting away from it. On the other, it's probably a sensible economic measure because the tax gap between self-employed and employed peoples is only going to get bigger and, at some point, you're going to have to take the hit. Granted they don't get the benefits that employed people receive, but there's a clear element of gaming the system to pretend that people are self-employed rather than actually employed, alongside the general 'unfairness' that employed people are having to carry a heavier element of tax contribution to the Treasury.

I think it's probably the right move, on balance, but pretending it's not a breach of the manifesto pledge is daft. It'll probably get voted down in the Commons anyway because nobody wants to accept sound economics when pointless political rabble-rousing can be rolled out instead.

[Boydy]

How much were 'self-employed' folks saving themselves and how exactly? I presume you would know the precise details of it.

[Lewis]

His entire posting history has been building towards this moment.

[GS]

How much were 'self-employed' folks saving themselves and how exactly? I presume you would know the precise details of it.

There are three big differences - the class of NIC that you pay, employer NIC and allowance expenses. For context, this is the line from the Guardian:


Announcing his changes, the chancellor said an employee earning £32,000 a year currently faces an NI bill of £6,170 along with their employer, while the bill for a self-employed person earning the same salary would be £2,300.

If you assume Joe Bloggs is earning £32K a year as an employee, he'll be paying the following:

Income tax: £32,000 less £11,000 personal allowance = £21,000 taxable income at 20% = (£4,200)
Class 1 NIC: £32,000 less £8,060 threshold = £23,940 taxable income at 12% = (£2,873)
Total tax payable by employee: (£7,073)

The employer will pay:

Employer NIC: £32,000 less £8,112 threshold = £23,888 taxable income at 13.8% = (£3,297)
Total tax payable by employer: (£3,297)

Total NIC paid: £6,169
Total tax received by Treasury: £10,369

Where Joe Bloggs is self-employed:

Income tax: £32,000 less £11,000 personal allowance = £21,000 taxable income at 20% = (£4,200)
Class 2 NIC: £2.80 per week = (£146)
Class 4 NIC: £32,000 less £8,060 threshold = £23,940 taxable income at 9% = (£2,155)
Total tax payable by employee: (£6,500)

Total NIC paid: £2,300
Total tax received by Treasury: £6,500

In effect, every staff member who is categorised as self-employed by a company, rather than employed, means a loss in tax revenue of £3,869 through NIC. They're scrapping Class 2 NIC from April 2018, meaning the gap goes up to over £4,000 in this example. There's therefore a big incentive, particularly for companies, to treat staff as self-employed and it's legal tax avoidance.

In addition, self-employed people can reduce their income (and thus their taxable income or 'profit') by writing off allowable expenses against it. See: here (https://www.gov.uk/expenses-if-youre-self-employed/overview). Basically people can buy personal things and pass it off as an expense incurred for the purposes of trade. So if you, as an example, set yourself up as self-employed and went and bought yourself a new Mac for £1,200 and a new suit for £300, you'd claim they were incurred as working expenses, it would reduce your taxable income by £1,500 and the effective tax loss to the Treasury is 29% of that (being 20% of tax and 9% of NIC) or £435.

There's clear gaming of the system, it's a significant benefit to companies, and if the current trend of growing self-employment over traditional employment continues then the gap is only going to get bigger and continue to erode the tax base.

I generally favour lower taxation, which is hardly a surprise to anybody, but the issue here is that traditionally employed people are shouldering a greater taxation burden than they should be relative to the whole. It needs to be addressed in some capacity, although whether this even goes far enough is a matter for a different day.

[Raoul Duke]

GS :drool:

Also - from my hipster/London/tech point of view, is that there are loads of jobs which follow the above pattern, except the full time person would be paid £32k and the contractor would be on a £400 day rate. It artificially inflates salaries and makes it a massive ballache to recruit/retain people.

There are loads of self-employed trades people and the like but I'd wager the majority of potential tax income would come from the tech/finance contribution, who are more likely to be in the kinds of set-ups GS outlines.

[phonics]

Don't employed people get benefits that self-employed don't such as maternity leave, sick pay etc.

Isn't that why the brackets were made different in the first place?

[phonics]

Am I missing a trick here, why is the 11th March 'National Remember People Killed By Terrorists Day'

840498830135181313

[Lewis]

It's a European Union thing, for the Madrid train bombings.

[GS]

Don't employed people get benefits that self-employed don't such as maternity leave, sick pay etc.

Isn't that why the brackets were made different in the first place?

Partly, but it was mostly provision of state pension. Previously they didn't get a full state pension, now they do, and that's a significant benefit where their collective NICs, through employer and employee contributions, are much lower. They also have full access to other public services such as the NHS, which are funded through taxation. In effect, contracted employees, through their own and their employer's NICs, are paying more to get the exact same benefit out of the Treasury on retirement.

They obviously don't have company contributions to personal pension plans, but tax relief is available for voluntary contributions which they can make. You're right that they don't get other work-based benefits such as SSP, but equally they're not bound by other restraints which a routine contract may require e.g. set working hours. They don't get holiday pay, but equally aren't restricted in the number of days they can take off. It works both ways.

Plus the burden for those benefits rests with the company in question, i.e. can be negotiated as part of contract law within the requirements of existing legal minimums outlined in legislation, and are thus a cash outflow for the company / employer, not the public purse however delayed the payment may be. On balance, the pension argument and access to the NHS mean the increase is economically justified and entirely fair.

[GS]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/12/the-refugees-uk-wants-to-send-back-to-countries-where-they-were-abused

There must have been a right dilemma in the Guardian newsroom over whether to publish that, given it paints our 'progressive, European partners' as the backward-looking types they actually are.

[Boydy]

840606986311995393

:D

l

[Magic]

Where's the nanny?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Second jock referendum is on. May we take this opportunity to remember Sebo and Toby, killed in the first one.

[Magic]

:yawn:

Great. The very fucking last thing this shite country needed is another fucking refercuntingendum. More arguments. More vitriol. Hooray!

[Jimmy Floyd]

Whoever's running NO this time should be sending out the bat signals to Dominic Cummings about now. That said, they have a big time Ruth Davidson to front it up this time. I can't see YES winning.

[Byron]

I reckon we should let it happen on the basis that a second NO vote is final, they can't be holding referendums every two fucking years.

YES won't win this one because the economic arguments are weaker than previously and the oil price is not getting above $60 a barrel until mid-2018 at the earliest (there's a good chance it could crash again) so they're basically running on 'FREEDOM!' which they get a great deal of already anyway.

[Lewis]

'It is clear that our voice and our interests can be ignored at any time and at any issue', says the woman ignoring the majority of people who voted in the last one.

[phonics]

Tbf, if there had been a Remain vote, you know it would be about a year until the next one. As GS says, 'The majority voted for a party that wants independence and so they're right to push for another referendum'.

[GS]

The reasons she cites don't matter - she was looking for any grievance whatsoever to leverage. They might not have a majority in the next Scottish parliament given her popularity rankings are tanking.

Hopefully they're told to do one until the Brexit negotiations are complete.

[GS]

Tbf, if there had been a Remain vote, you know it would be about a year until the next one.

No, it would have been finished.

[Disco]

I know Saturday was bad but this seems an over reaction.

[phonics]

The reasons she cites don't matter - she was looking for any grievance whatsoever to leverage. They might not have a majority in the next Scottish parliament given her popularity rankings are tanking.

Hopefully they're told to do one until the Brexit negotiations are complete.

So delivering on campaign promises now doesn't matter because you don't agree?

This however, is genuinely funny from Hard Brexit Central

841269865138802688

[Lewis]

As a few people are pointing out, if Brexit changes the terms of everything to such an extent that she can call a referendum whenever she wants, then doesn't it also change the terms of her current electoral mandate? To be consistent, she would have to get re-elected on the basis of holding another one.

[phonics]

As a few people are pointing out, if Brexit changes the terms of everything to such an extent that she can call a referendum whenever she wants, then doesn't it also change the terms of her current electoral mandate? To be consistent, she would have to get re-elected on the basis of holding another one.

That's what people said about the Conservatives (considering they literally campaigned for the opposite of what happened) and were told to do one.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm all for it personally, I think they'll lose by even more and that'll be that.

[Lewis]

That's what people said about the Conservatives (considering they literally campaigned for the opposite of what happened) and were told to do one.

How are they the same? They won the election, held the referendum, and said they would implement its result. They are doing.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Oh and the 'lol message confusion' works equally for both sides, Sturgeon is campaigning to leave her largest export market on the basis of a vote to leave our largest export market. None of it makes sense on any level, it's about time both sides stopped using logical arguments.

[Kikó]

This will be the last one in a generation though so there is that. There was a material change from the previous time they voted so i think fair play to go ahead with the referendum. I hope they win and leave and we can let them crack on being an independent country.

[Magic]

It was fucking pashing it doon when I last called it, different circumstances now. It's sunny.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They are even using 'Take Back Control' as their slogan, bless their regional hearts.

[phonics]

http://www.dailyedge.ie/irish-politicians-like-beyonce-3274798-Mar2017/

Someone went round all the Irish polticians to see if they liked Beyonce.

Boyd, can you vote for this bloke for me?

Cheers.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6z0O8GWwAEFQ_-.jpg

[niko_cee]

None of it makes sense on any level

Sums it up perfectly.

I can only assume this is a gamble on Sturgeon's part that either (a) WESTMINSTER won't allow it and so it might become more popular/viable in the medium term through increased bitterness (if this is possible) or (b) the EU use Scotland as some sort of stick to beat the exiting UK with (and so lavish it with attention and money etc).

Can we respond by opening trade negotiations with them? We could give them one of the Juncker-esque bills.

[Lewis]

They are even using 'Take Back Control' as their slogan, bless their regional hearts.

The 'Brexit done this!' fannies of Remain Twitter are going to be a bit stuck when they lose. If Brexit itself was as good as it gets, Brexit saving the Union just might top it.

[Magic]

'Cybernat' and 'Yestapo'. :harold:

Naysayers may well be my most fucking hated term ever.

Realistic point based on facts? Naysayer!

[Magic]

'Project FEAR' is another one. :harold:

[Jimmy Floyd]

Project Fear was defeated in the EU referendum by Project Lol, so they might need to think of a new one.

[Magic]

Project FEAR 2.0 is what I'm hearing.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

If there is another one, can the PM set the terms in such a way that there won't be another one for 50 years if she wanted?

[Jimmy Floyd]

No. In our constitution, no Parliament can bind its successors (for me the fixed term parliaments act is a huge grey area for this reason).

[Lewis]

This Alex Salmond quote about Scotland having a 'millennium-long history as a European nation' is some quality history. The Jacobite King was some old Bavarian last time, so if he is still alive it all slots into place nicely.

[phonics]

841243879831662592

How has this bloke still got a job?

[Boydy]

I was wondering about the religious divide in Scotland and what way that intersects with the independence thing and I was looking to see what religion Salmond and Sturgeon were. I ended up on the Religion in Scotland Wikipedia page and I was pretty shocked by the number responding 'no religion' in the 2011 census - 36.7% (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Scotland#Statistics). By comparison, England is only 24.7% (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_England#Statistics).

[phonics]

We're just less honest. Remember, Jim thinks he's religious despite not believing in God.

[Lewis]

We've got more Muslims, Poles, and old people.

[GS]

This Alex Salmond quote about Scotland having a 'millennium-long history as a European nation' is some quality history. The Jacobite King was some old Bavarian last time, so if he is still alive it all slots into place nicely.

Franz, Duke of Bavaria. It might be worth restoring the Stuart line in Scotland. It would be interesting to see how the absolutist monarchy already in place would cope with the competition.

[GS]

So delivering on campaign promises now doesn't matter because you don't agree?

This however, is genuinely funny from Hard Brexit Central

841269865138802688

What campaign promises were those?

Ultimately none of it matters. If it wasn't Brexit, it would be 'austerity'. If it wasn't 'austerity', it would be supposed failure to follow through on 'the Vow'. There are no circumstances in which the SNP are not going to agitate for independence. There is no question where the solution is not independence. That's fine if that's their view, but pretending this is somehow anybody else's fault is stretching it a bit. Nobody is stupid enough to think otherwise as well.

[Shindig]

Surely it makes more sense to call a referendum when the effects of an EU exit are known? Judge the size of the shit when you're in it.

[GS]

They will want to hold it beforehand because a) the UK government would be distracted and b) they could pretend that they'd somehow be able to stay in the EU without having to rejoin it as a third party.

If it's afterwards, neither situation applies. To be blunt, she just wants to as divisive and awkward as she possibly can because the UK government can't agree (they really can't during the Brexit negotiations) and it provides further material for maximum grievance.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They know full well the sky isn't going to fall in, so they need to harness the lingering possibility that it might while they still can.

[GS]

There's also that. Anyone who buys the argument that they should abandon the UK single market for the EU single market deserves every day of the sadistic austerity it would bring about.

[niko_cee]

They would be abandoning both, and have been told as much.

[GS]

The 'offer' will presumably be a choice between the two, however.

[Lewis]

Plus they would have to join the Euro. Which is a point. If we fail to get a 'deal' out of Europe, the Scotch will have to simultaneously argue that it makes it more important for them to stay whilst claiming to be better placed to get a tailor-made agreement of their own upon re-entry. Good luck.

[niko_cee]

What kind of significant dates have we got to work with here? 25th May 2020? 25 years since the release of Braveheart. Too late for the SNP I would imagine.

Something to coincide with a significant date related to this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme)?

[GS]

This is the key reason why May should force the delay until after we've left. It's a straight choice between the Euro/EU market and Sterling/UK market. The argument that they wouldn't actually be able to join the EU with their lol-worthy budget deficit of 9.5% would no doubt be swiftly brushed over.

The lol you could have if they voted leave and we immediately suspended the Barnett formula to TAKE BACK CONTROL of our £9bn fiscal transfer would be great.

[Lewis]

That would be interesting. Would the Europeans prioritise 1) their deficit rules; 2) expanding; or 3) adding a not completely worthless economy to the Euro. You could see them turning a blind eye to the deficit business in return for them taking the single currency on, because I find it hard to imagine that they would turn down the chance to add another country to the bonfire.

[GS]

They wouldn't bend the rules. Ireland might accept it despite the shafting they took and Portugal is a non-country, but the Greeks would presumably go apeshit if Scotland was offered some sort of special economic deal and veto it. It requires unanimity after all, and you could see the Spanish establishing the most awkward position possible and vetoing any 'special' or 'accelerated' deal so as to avoid giving any sort of succour whatsoever to Catalonian separatists.

So assuming they have their 9.5% deficit, there's no way to square the circle beyond imposing huge spending cuts across the board. They'd be doing that whilst severing themselves from a '64% market' in pursuit of a '15% market' in a few years' time, with the 'big oil' that was previously plugging the gap evidently non-existent. Presuming they didn't get their currency union, they'd have to issue a new Scottish currency pegged to the pound whilst establishing a new central bank and trying to get financing on the international markets having just threatened (presumably) to default on their share of UK debt as revenge for not getting said union.

The economic argument is terribly one-sided, really, so they'll need to stick to emotive arguments like thinly-veiled anti-English RACISM and nationalistic jingoism.

Before anyone makes the comparison, the £9bn fiscal transfer is the equivalent of about £1,800 per person from Westminster to Edinburgh. If the UK was receiving similar subsidy from Brussels, the total would be £115bn. If we were getting a fiscal transfer of £115bn a year from Brussels, the Remain vote would have been about 80%. Whilst there are some similarities in the wider arguments, the core economic arguments are clearly very different.

[ItalAussie]

Do you guys actually want Scotland to stay? Because you don't actually seem to like them very much.

[GS]

The SNP aren't Scotland, much as you may be led to think otherwise by the coverage that mob get.

[Lewis]

Yes, but for purely sentimental reasons. We would be better off without them on most actual measures.

[GS]

Yes, but for purely sentimental reasons. We would be better off without them on most actual measures.

Also this. There's an argument that if Sturgeon had her referendum on a UK-wide basis, she'd be more likely to actually win it.

[Lewis]

Before anyone makes the comparison, thouldn't bende £9bn fiscal transfer is the equivalent of about £1,800 per person from Westminster to Edinburgh. If the UK was receiving similar subsidy from Brussels, the total would be £115bn. If we were getting a fiscal transfer of £115bn a year from Brussels, the Remain vote would have been about 80%. Whilst there are some similarities in the wider arguments, the core economic arguments are clearly very different.

That is a good way of putting it. We must be covering their health service in that case (cue the entire shit No campaign being based around that), so fair play to them for keeping life expectancy low.

[GS]

We're certainly paying for their education system, where standards are sinking like a stone and we're subsidising rich Scots to go to university for free (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-36392857).

[ItalAussie]

Sentimentality? If you really think they're a dead weight, you should be out there campaigning for them to leave. :D

You guys can't even bring yourselves to pretend to like them when you're saying they should stay. So why bother? It sounds like a toxic relationship.

[Yevrah]

I don't want them.

[Lewis]

Most of the country is a drain on about three productive regions, so it's just a statement of fact rather than an argument either way.

I think we could have a very healthy union (you could kill all of this stone dead by devolving lots of powers to local government across the entire United Kingdom, removing the need for 'national' parliaments, but obviously the cretins who decide these things would recoil at ceding any sort of power), so the prospect of keeping the three century-long victory parade on the road appeals more than raking a bit of money back in which would only be spent on shite anyway.

[GS]

Sentimentality? If you really think they're a dead weight, you should be out there campaigning for them to leave. :D

You guys can't even bring yourselves to pretend to like them when you're saying they should stay. So why bother? It sounds like a toxic relationship.

Again, you're confusing finding the SNP contemptible and disliking Scotland as a place or as a country. You can be forgiven for this given the state of the coverage, but they're not synonymous nor should they be considered so.

[Magic]

My Facebook is utterly awash with propaganda now. I was quite satisfied to see occassional simmering, bitter seethe from the Nats.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Scottish nationalism itself having to pretend to be left wing is what costs it credibility. The SNP of the 1980s was basically a Scottish version of UKIP, they are only doing the lefty stuff more recently in order to gain ex-Labour voters, but nobody is fooled. The common denominator of the two is of course Alex Salmond, the slimiest man in the world, one minute inviting Trump for tea and those shit muffin things the Scots pass off as pancakes, the next refusing to have him in the country.

The reason they've got into this position is because Scottish Labour is/was one of the most corrupt political bodies in Europe.

[Magic]

Sorry from what I'm seeing nearly 50% of people are fooled.

[Mazuuurk]

Why don't you guys just cut the UK off at about Birmingham latitude (slightly below Birmingham probably) and be done with it?

[Jimmy Floyd]

If it was a Yorkshire referendum I'd be all for letting them drift off into the sea. Boring bastards.

[Mazuuurk]

You know, Jim, name something in this world that you do like.

[Byron]

Koreans.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I like cheese and I like Henrik Stenson. Surely that is enough to qualify as jovial.

[Mazuuurk]

Liking cheese is like saying you like air because it's nice to breathe it. Liking Stenson is a poor way to woo a Swede as all you have to really like in our books is Zlatan and unless you do, no other athlete will compensate.


Don't worry though, you won my heart back in Pompey way back when, by downing a Carlsberg with great panache.
Still, maybe you should cheer up a bit.

[Disco]

I'm not sure I buy Jimmy drinking lager, it must have been someone else.

[Mazuuurk]

He was quite peer pressured into it I think, but he took it on as a champ. Possibly for the first and last time.

[Shindig]

I hope he was pressured into it by the Koreans and not some LADS.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm not sure I buy Jimmy drinking lager, it must have been someone else.

I drink little else tbh (well, wine these days. And gin. Christ.)

[Magic]

What's wrong with gin?

[Boydy]

Gin is what wine mums drink before they're wine mums.

[Magic]

Of course, the library assistant from Ballymena has his finger on the pulse.