The UK Politics Thread [Wot did Jez do now...]

[Jimmy Floyd]

785053732497006593

It's an interesting philosophical defence that. Am I really a hypocrite if I embrace it? Well... Hmm. Floyd, does everyone (not least New Labour Twitter) realising what a shameless, over-promoted dickhead she is make you feel like one of those vindicated Jimmy Savile truthers?

Yes, but the payoff's nowhere near as big as the Sadiq Khan payoff will eventually be. Currently he seems to have attained a status somewhere between Lech Walesa and John the Baptist.

[GS]

Yes, but the payoff's nowhere near as big as the Sadiq Khan payoff will eventually be. Currently he seems to have attained a status somewhere between Lech Walesa and John the Baptist.

:D

That's a great line. It's true as well. What's he done apart from walk about on red carpets and be Muslim - yet people love him.

[Jimmy Floyd]

My 'David Davis is a fucking joke idiot' portfolio not looking badly placed at the moment either.

[GS]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CurTDTXXYAAesB3.jpg

Also, lol at Donald Tusk suggesting we might decide to stay in after all whilst pushing for 'hard Brexit' or 'no Brexit', as if that's somehow a deal breaker.

[GS]

As I reject the doctrine of punishment after death, my watching Question Time provides me with one hour a week of what purgatory must be like.

Isabel Oakeshott is fighting a heroic stand against the utter bollocks being spouted, but Emily Thornberry is comfortably the worst shadow cabinet member of all time with the sole exception of Diane Abbott.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/786869176858124289

[niko_cee]

Today I have mostly been enjoying reading about the plight of Irish mushroom farmers.

Imagine what it'll be like when there's a 10% import tariff on the little beauties.

[Lewis]

http://www.politico.eu/article/belgian-regional-government-set-to-block-eu-canada-trade-deal/

:harold:

[GS]

Honestly, if they can't even secure a trade deal with the Canadians then what's the fucking point.

[GS]

Nick Clegg is having the same medium-term nervous breakdown as Paddy Ashdown.

Unlucky, Cleggers, mate.

[The Merse]

The 'Breniers' thing is indicative of his cringy social media awareness, and can fuck off, but like Ashdown it would be a great shame to see his voice be lost and unlike Ashdown, I still regard him a credible leader of the nation.

[GS]

I suspect history will be kinder to him than the 2015 election was, but his credibility is still shot nationally. The Lib Dems will be lucky to have 5 MPs by the next election, assuming the boundary change go through.

[The Merse]

I suspect history will be kinder to him than the 2015 election was, but his credibility is still shot nationally. The Lib Dems will be lucky to have 5 MPs by the next election, assuming the boundary change go through.

I sincerely hope so (the former statement rather than the latter). The positive tempering of the Tories in the coalition by picking their battles and toeing the line where required was always going to bring about a fall from grace as to casual observers the Lib Dems, and Clegg in particular, had abandoned their principles. He took one for the team, and converted me (not a fan of the guy pre-2010).

[GS]

There was a poll after the 2010 election where the majority of people a) didn't agree that the Lib Dems should have went into coalition with the Tories yet a majority also b) were glad they had. Ultimately we needed a government in May 2010, and it was the only mathematical majority that could be formed. He did a good job keeping the show on the road - and they did get some good policies through, particularly the increase in the personal allowance. That said, their list of 'successes' is thin. The big fuck up was, clearly, the tuition fee debacle - he, and the party, haven't really recovered from the fundamental breach of 'trust' there. He also got onto quite sticky ground when he was citing 'tempering the Tories' as evidence of his success - it looks quite small-time, mainly because it is.

Ultimately they didn't do a huge amount in government that they can point to, but the successes were a) forming a government at a critical time given market uncertainty and then b) keeping the coalition together for a full five years. In time, he'll come to be respected for that as I do tend to think it was 'country first'. Regardless, the tuition fee debacle, the perception of 'collaborating with the enemy' and what is going to be his new pet hobby of thrashing about over Brexit isn't a combination which is going to restore his credibility. It's a bit unfortunate, but such is life. He might fare better if the Lib Dems weren't useless, but Tim Farron is legitimately hopeless (and widely disliked in the Commons) as a national party leader and, for all the local government successes, it's not going to translate into a sustained national presence for the party until Clegg is looking at retirement - if ever.

He'll still get press coverage as "Former Deputy Prime Minister, Nick Clegg", but that'll be as a slightly discredited statesman who you indulge because they were once important. See: Michael Heseltine, John Prescott.

[The Merse]

There was a poll after the 2010 election where the majority of people a) didn't agree that the Lib Dems should have went into coalition with the Tories yet a majority also b) were glad they had. Ultimately we needed a government in May 2010, and it was the only mathematical majority that could be formed. He did a good job keeping the show on the road - and they did get some good policies through, particularly the increase in the personal allowance. That said, their list of 'successes' is thin. The big fuck up was, clearly, the tuition fee debacle - he, and the party, haven't really recovered from the fundamental breach of 'trust' there. He also got onto quite sticky ground when he was citing 'tempering the Tories' as evidence of his success - it looks quite small-time, mainly because it is.

Ultimately they didn't do a huge amount in government that they can point to, but the successes were a) forming a government at a critical time given market uncertainty and then b) keeping the coalition together for a full five years. In time, he'll come to be respected for that as I do tend to think it was 'country first'. Regardless, the tuition fee debacle, the perception of 'collaborating with the enemy' and what is going to be his new pet hobby of thrashing about over Brexit isn't a combination which is going to restore his credibility. It's a bit unfortunate, but such is life. He might fare better if the Lib Dems weren't useless, but Tim Farron is legitimately hopeless (and widely disliked in the Commons) as a national party leader and, for all the local government successes, it's not going to translate into a sustained national presence until Clegg is looking at retirement.

Don't disagree, but they never, ever had the cache to achieve much more.

The Tuition fees were a fuck up, and actually one of the reasons I opposed him and turned my back on the Lib Dems in the run up to 2010. At the time I had a couple of friends in as NUS officers I vehemently opposed on this too - I could spend a great deal of time criticising the various student and education bodies that failed to see the fallacy of opposing tuition fee rises whilst not acknowledging that it is the unsustainable HE entry volumes that are the cause of the inability to subsidise them in England (lower participation in Wales and Scotland being their saving grace as much as anything). Anyway... Point being, I wasn't offended on their backtrack as frankly, the fuck were they gonna do?

[GS]

You may not have been offended, but it's a bit difficult for the national party to make a whole song and dance about opposing it - with pledges and everything - and then immediately bin it off in coalition where it looks as if the hated Tory enemy are pulling the strings. It's not something you can recover from, as it's not as if it was a minor manifesto pledge.

That said, I agree with you that there's a complete fuck up on the handling of tertiary level education. You can't have access at the levels we have and expect it to be fully, or heavily, subsidised by the state.

[The Merse]

You may not have been offended, but it's a bit difficult for the national party to make a whole song and dance about opposing it - with pledges and everything - and then immediately bin it off in coalition where it looks as if the hated Tory enemy are pulling the strings. It's not something you can recover from, as it's not as if it was a minor manifesto pledge.

That said, I agree with you that there's a complete fuck up on the handling of tertiary level education. You can't have access at the levels we have and expect it to be fully, or heavily, subsidised by the state.

Granted, but it speaks to the naivety of the electorate (and particularly the young and idealistic types that supported Clegg so vehemently) that they took it seriously. All manifesto pledges were delivered on condition of a Liberal government, not a minority presence in a Tory coalition.

[GS]

Agreed, but their valid counter-argument is that the Lib Dems should have said "we're not voting for this because we pledged otherwise, therefore we're going to veto it". He claims to have vetoed other legislation he didn't like, after all - so why not that? Again, it wasn't a 'standard' manifesto pledge hidden away in the document - they made a whole song and dance about it. You'd have reasonable grounds for expecting that to hold, not be tossed away for political convenience.

That said, there was a section of their support who were never going to forgive them for collaborating with the enemy. I'm sure we had some LD activist posting on here at the time who was absolutely adamant they'd never go into coalition, and then had some sort of meltdown when they did.

[Lewis]

Fair play to whoever came up with the killer idea of referring to the Leave leaders as 'chancers and opportunists', and more fair play to whoever thought that Nick Clegg (as in Nick Clegg) was the man to road test it.

[John]

I'm sure we had some LD activist posting on here at the time who was absolutely adamant they'd never go into coalition, and then had some sort of meltdown when they did.

Dr Barry or Ginner. Probably the former.

It's a shame we've lost that 'irresistible force, a sight to behold' post from Ginner.

[GS]

Dela was another one who was broken by the coalition.

Top class trolling from Cameron and Osborne, all things considered.

[phonics]

Woolfe has quit UKIP and joined the Conservatives. I'm shocked that getting his head caved in failed to change his mind.

[GS]

Well, there's no indication that he's joined the Conservatives and he says he's going to sit as an independent MEP.

Woolfe is a talent - the Tories have privately admitted that Woolfe is 'a kipper you can work with' - so I wouldn't be surprised to see him join the Tories and do well.

[Byron]

Does make you respect Farage a little more when you think that he held this absolute shambles together.

[Raoul Duke]

No. That's like being the best child molester.

[GS]

'Nigel' clearly did a great job running the party - he seems to have been in almost permanent standoff with the NEC for years, but it's run by charlatans and people who've seen its rise to national prominence pass them by.

You get the impression that UKIP have missed the bus somewhat here. They had a great opportunity after the referendum to 'rebrand' and attack Labour in the north, but they seem to have completely lost the plot. I suspect part of it is losing a dominating figure like Farage and the other part is losing their raison d'être. I mean, if you want to control immigration why wouldn't you just vote for the Tories?

[elth]

Tories up by 18 points in the latest Ipsos poll.

[Lewis]

The real story of which is Jezza only being a point behind what Ed Miliband achieved.

[GS]

Tories up by 18 points in the latest Ipsos poll.

I think May's struggling a bit as well, so this really is a terrible indictment of the other parties who are all varying degrees of awful.

[Lewis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG1umg53Wd8

Douglas Murray has come off his summer holidays, and how the fuck has that woman qualified for a career (black female barrister on the telly) which is at least partly based on your ability to form logical and consistent arguments?

[SvN]

Jesus Christ. I nearly turned it off at the first "How dare you?!?".

[Lewis]

This (http://www.politico.eu/article/why-we-lost-the-brexit-vote-former-uk-prime-minister-david-cameron/) long account on the referendum by one of David Cameron's gimps is sort of interesting, albeit mainly for the insight it provides into their mindset. For example, you can't write a billion words on how dysfunctional everything is, and how massive your effort was to get shit all out of all the stiffs, before referring to 'an EU in the process of reforming'. Swivel-eyed, you might say.

[ItalAussie]

I would very much like to hear precisely what Gove thinks "slut-shaming" means. :D

[GS]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG1umg53Wd8

Douglas Murray has come off his summer holidays, and how the fuck has that woman qualified for a career (black female barrister on the telly) which is at least partly based on your ability to form logical and consistent arguments?

Where the fuck do you even start with this? By her logic, we'd end up accepting everybody who claims to be 'fleeing war' and says they're under 18. We had this discussion last year during the CRISIS, and the points made then still stand - we owe nothing to anybody in Calais.

[Jimmy Floyd]

This (http://www.politico.eu/article/why-we-lost-the-brexit-vote-former-uk-prime-minister-david-cameron/) long account on the referendum by one of David Cameron's gimps is sort of interesting, albeit mainly for the insight it provides into their mindset. For example, you can't write a billion words on how dysfunctional everything is, and how massive your effort was to get shit all out of all the stiffs, before referring to 'an EU in the process of reforming'. Swivel-eyed, you might say.

I think he's fairly deluded if he thinks anyone gave a shit what the result of the 'renegotiation' was.

It ended up just being a national debate between those who do well out of the status quo and those who do not, with the latter winning.

[GS]

This (http://www.politico.eu/article/why-we-lost-the-brexit-vote-former-uk-prime-minister-david-cameron/) long account on the referendum by one of David Cameron's gimps is sort of interesting, albeit mainly for the insight it provides into their mindset. For example, you can't write a billion words on how dysfunctional everything is, and how massive your effort was to get shit all out of all the stiffs, before referring to 'an EU in the process of reforming'. Swivel-eyed, you might say.

It's an alright article, but I find it a bit lol to be suggesting that either the budget rebate or the Juncker appointment somehow laid the groundwork for wider dissatisfaction wit the EU. His points on the shite renegotiation are probably fair, mind.

[GS]

I think he's fairly deluded if he thinks anyone gave a shit what the result of the 'renegotiation' was.

It ended up just being a national debate between those who do well out of the status quo and those who do not, with the latter winning.

I think his point that Cameron probably did get a good deal (in the context of "rules, mate") but that it was still shit and couldn't be sold are fair enough. That it disappeared from the platform quite quickly is evidence enough that it was all a colossal waste of time in the context of selling the monstrosity that is the EU.

[Lewis]

I think he's fairly deluded if he thinks anyone gave a shit what the result of the 'renegotiation' was.

It ended up just being a national debate between those who do well out of the status quo and those who do not, with the latter winning.

I read yesterday that throwing dinner parties in Notting Hill has become a nightmare for people who know Michael Gove and that.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It was summed up best for me when on the morning of the result I saw a facebook or tweet from someone I know who is 24, works in banking and (I found out via illicit means) is on £55,000, which said 'This is a scary day for me and everyone in financial services'. I bet it is, old boy, I bet it is.

[Lewis]

https://s22.postimg.org/65y355rjl/Cv_TJvpw_Wg_AE7ht_F.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/olik2k5nx/)

That is pretty definitive. Wankers.

[Raoul Duke]

It's basically plebs voting to leave because all their jobs have been replaced by Chinese workforces.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm surprised at the co-op being so Remain. Is it only black single mothers and freelance journalists who shop there?

[GS]

It's basically plebs voting to leave because all their jobs have been replaced by Chinese workforces.

Mate.

[GS]

Also, the state of under 100 "socialists" in Wallonia torpedoing the free trade agreement with Canada. It sort of sums it up really.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The only thing worse than Belgium is the French bit of Belgium.

[GS]

It's basically an artificial country, but there we are. The Canadians are SEETHING, apparently.

[Spikey M]

Denmark.

[Lewis]

[The] Co-op is actually quite expensive if you buy more than custard creams and fresh bread (which I try not to do). Their milk prices are a disgrace when you consider the sterling work the others have done to crush dairy farmers.

[John Arne]

Genuine question here.
All these children in the Calais refugee camp - why aren't they being assimilated into France?
Are these desperate kids really choosing to stay in a squalid refugee camp in France then actually become part of the French system?
The only thing I can think of is that they have family in the UK already and want to hold out for that.

[Kikó]

I think it's partly that. Some have family. I think some of it is the language barrier and they speak English rather than French so would rather assimilate here.

[John Arne]

I'd be surprised whether children growing up in these war torn countries can speak any language other than Arabic - and even more surprised that the language would be important in making a decision as to where to live when you are coming from a war torn country, or living in a "jungle" in Calais... Something just doesn't add up... Is their any evidence or reason that coercion may be at play?
Perhaps I am being cynical, but there is just something not adding up - is the UK really seen as such a beckon of freedom and prosperity for Asylum seekers (more so than France, Germany, Spain or Italy (which I know have accepted thousands of asylum seeker, too), that these people, including children, make a conscious decision to stay in the jungle rather than assimilate into French society.

[Lewis]

It's not even our problem, so I don't know why we care.

[phonics]

Calais was a problem before Syria even kicked off.

[John Arne]

Madrid is the capital of Spain.

[GS]

There must be some draw - whether the benefits system is perceived as being more favourable or they're more likely to get work, I don't know. Mechanisms exist for asylum seekers to move to the UK if they have families already living here, so the argument that they have family connections is completely irrelevant. They can claim initial asylum in France and then apply to move here.

What does annoy me is the idea that if someone is 24 and claiming to be 15, they shouldn't be challenged about it. They're already 'breaking the rules' by refusing to claim asylum in France / elsewhere in Europe / another safe country they've transited through. Then they're lying about their age. I fail to understand the argument that this should be rewarded - I'm more than happy to take thousands of (vetted) refugees directly from camps in Turkey, with a focus on genuinely vulnerable children etc. This, and sending money directly there, is a sensible way of approaching the issue - not engaging in virtue signalling.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Lying about your age is fairly par for the course in their countries of origin, in fairness. Some of them might not even know it accurately.

[GS]

I don't see how that's relevant where someone in their mid-twenties is claiming to be 14.

The issue is whether you have rules or not. If you have rules and procedures, you can't cave into moral pressure to act differently as a short-term fix.

[Lewis]

What a self-indulgent fanny Zac Goldsmith is. That said, if he uses Referendum Party colours as an independent I'll send his campaign a fiver. Can I do that if I'm not in his constituency? I might do it anyway just to annoy Tim Farron.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Lib Dems will piss that seat, full as it is of panini-eating whiners and people who walk small dogs in lycra.

[Lewis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dxZ1MoyXNA

:cool:

[Spoonsky]

Lying about your age is fairly par for the course in their countries of origin, in fairness. Some of them might not even know it accurately.

There was a refugee on my soccer team whose official birthday was January 1st, 2000. He donned everyone, fastest person on the park by a mile before the rest of us hit puberty too.

[Magic]

I'd be surprised whether children growing up in these war torn countries can speak any language other than Arabic - and even more surprised that the language would be important in making a decision as to where to live when you are coming from a war torn country, or living in a "jungle" in Calais... Something just doesn't add up... Is their any evidence or reason that coercion may be at play?
Perhaps I am being cynical, but there is just something not adding up - is the UK really seen as such a beckon of freedom and prosperity for Asylum seekers (more so than France, Germany, Spain or Italy (which I know have accepted thousands of asylum seeker, too), that these people, including children, make a conscious decision to stay in the jungle rather than assimilate into French society.

Lol you do know over a million went to Germany. There were only about 10k in the jungle.

[John Arne]

I said as such in this post you quoted, you bafoon.

[Magic]

No you said the aforementioned countries had accepted 'thousands' of refugees. This is absolute bollocks.

[John Arne]

No you said the aforementioned countries had accepted 'thousands' of refugees. This is absolute bollocks.

Ok, a million went to Germany.

I'm making a point about desperate refugees and the decisions they have to make - not the exact numbers involved.

[Magic]

No your exact point was that the UK is more attractive than the rest of Europe.

[John Arne]

No your exact point was that the UK is more attractive than the rest of Europe.

No, it wasn't. I really don't know where you are going with this.

Not once did I say that the UK was more attractive - I asked the question, and expressed surprise that refugees would rather live in the jungle in horrid conditions in hope of reaching the UK, rather than seek asylum in France.

[Magic]

IIRC THE JUNGLE was set up before Merkl opened the Krauts up to rampant rape and crime.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I asked the question, and expressed surprise that refugees would rather live in the jungle in horrid conditions in hope of reaching the UK, rather than seek asylum in France.

You've been to France, yes?

[GS]

What a self-indulgent fanny Zac Goldsmith is. That said, if he uses Referendum Party colours as an independent I'll send his campaign a fiver. Can I do that if I'm not in his constituency? I might do it anyway just to annoy Tim Farron.

I don't know what the Lib Dems hope to achieve, in the long run, from turning it into some sort of re-run of the referendum. It voted 69% for Remain, you win the seat for nine months before May somehow calls an early election and massacres your party outside university towns. Great.


IIRC THE JUNGLE was set up before Merkl opened the Krauts up to rampant rape and crime.

Calais has been a dump for years - largely because of illegals trying to jump on trucks. THE JUNGLE is quite handy for the holier-than-thou leftists as it gives them something to moralise about.

[Lewis]

The idea is that it gets them a foothold back in the South [West]; but that was previously developed over twenty-odd years, when the Conservative Party was in decline and the Progressive Majority was all the rage, so I suppose it just gets ginner on the telly until the massacre you mention.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Limp Dims will do ok next time out. They'll pick up a lot from Labour rather than the Tories, which will result in their next batch of MPs being more SDP than the last lot of floppy countryside types were.

The real election, though, will be fought within the Tory party.

[GS]

I'm not convinced. Seventy percent of Labour seats voted Leave - they're clear targets for a Nuttall-led UKIP, or even the Tories in the areas that didn't decide three generations ago that Tories are demons.

In the grand scheme of it all, I just don't see what the point of the Liberal Democrats is. The entire pitch is "vote for us to stop the Tories", which is lol because it means splitting the vote of the progressive minority and these lads collaborated to give you a Tory government in 2010 anyway.

I think the next election is about whether Labour can maintain itself as a serious party. They'll be the opposition irrespective, but they could get massacred in some areas by the purple hordes - especially if Wor Jez goes in with a manifesto pledge of maintaining free movement.

[GS]

791399747508658176

Four percent.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The purple hordes will do fuck all. In reality Jezza will probably step aside before the election and somebody still left, but not as shit or mental will take over and they'll do kind of OK. That Clive Lewis is well placed.

[Lewis]

The idea that UKIP will actually take loads of seats in the North continues to make me lol, but Clive Lewis looks like a tortoise without a shell, and he is an absolute lightweight who would be found out in minutes.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Whereas Jeremy Corbyn...

[GS]

It depends how unpopular Labour prove to be. I suspect the impact of the referendum may be limited enough, but I can see UKIP making serious inroads into strong Leave voting areas (65%+) - especially if they're able to pitch it as "you can't trust them to see it through". Then again, this would require the purple hordes to undertake competent campaigning so perhaps that's a step too far. It's also not as if they have to win the seat, simply eat sufficiently into the Labour vote to make it contestable. You won't be seeing double-digit Kippers refusing to sit beside Douglas Carswell in the chamber any time soon.

On Wor Jez, I can't see a way he steps down before the next election unless a) because of ill-health or b) he's simply 'passing the baton' to one of his mental leftist mates like John McDonnell. They've got a grip on the party machine at the minute, which they've been waiting for since 1983, so they're not going to give it up unless the succession is secure.

[GS]

The absolute state of Labour over Orgreave is a sight to see. Presumably they'd cease to exist without this sort of irrelevant grievance to coalesce around.

[Raoul Duke]

The absolute state of Labour over Orgreave is a sight to see. Presumably they'd cease to exist without this sort of irrelevant grievance to coalesce around.

This is exactly the sort of twaddle that turns me right off Labour/Jez.

The economy is borked. Russia is giving it the big 'un. We've got an unelected Jesus-freak in charge of the Brexit shambles. Focus on the important shit!

[Lewis]

The so-called South Yorkshire must have the worst set of MPs of any region (except Scotland obviously). Within a twenty mile radius you've got Ed Miliband, half of his Shadow Cabinet, Nick Clegg, and some twenty-nine year old. No wonder everywhere is crap.

[Jimmy Floyd]

South London prior to 2015 had Harriet Harman, Chuka Umunna, Tessa Jowell, Kate Hoey and Simon Hughes all within about five miles of each other. And the buses are still crap there.

[Kikó]

We've got Jezza and the Thornz. It ain't half grim up North (London).

[Byron]

Someone's a fan of Private Eye.

[Disco]

That reminds me, haven't read one since May took over, what have they changed the PMs newsletter to?

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's Mrs May's Grammar School or something with a comically old-fashioned/authoritarian bent, as opposed to the Cameron Wanky Academy.

[phonics]

793801117477933056

#JezWeCan

While we're at it, I'm not a big fan of Bercow but

793805815480188933

lol

[phonics]

793945393432317952

[GS]

Boris using the word as a small-t adjective as per its original context.

We should definitely burn him at the stake for it.

[GS]

This, however, is outstanding:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwSqc7oWEAAnQKS.jpg

[Boydy]

Boris using the word as a small-t adjective as per its original context.

We should definitely burn him at the stake for it.

Have a sense of humour for once.

[Lewis]

'Never! Never! Never!'

[phonics]

Article 50 will be voted on in Parliament after the Government lost it's case in the High Court.

[Jimmy Floyd]

That should provide some hearty lols.

[Boydy]

What's the likelihood of them voting it down?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Zero, it'll just be the Lib Dems and SNP raging against the dying of the light.

[phonics]

The right wingers freaking out about this ATTACK ON DEMOCRACY is fucking lol.

[Lofty]

Enjoying the social media meltdowns of people claiming this is undemocratic :D

[Jimmy Floyd]

As a leaver myself, I don't see the issue with it going through parliament. People opposing it run the risk of being seen to be against the will of the people, so it's loaded in favour of the Brexiteers.

There are massive hypocrites on both sides, exhibit A Figel Narage calling it a betrayal, exhibit B the Liberal Democrats (or 'party for appalling people' as they should be renamed) determined to crack down on Brexit via their unnaturally huge contingent in the Lords, which, of course, they want abolished because it's undemocratic.

[phonics]

794133320162537472

What planet do these people live on? You voted for these unelected judges to be able to make these exact decisions...

[Jimmy Floyd]

As soon as I see an MP calling someone else 'unelected' my wanker alarm goes off.

[phonics]

794144620527624192

Brilliant.

[phonics]

The Mail is taking it well.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwVogYFWEAA--tc.jpg:large

[Lewis]

This doesn't really change anything, and it prevents the bitters from moving on, so whatever.

[Raoul Duke]

Using 'openly gay' in a pejorative sense is pretty brazen, even for those pigfuckers.

[Shindig]

Yeah, this is a storm in an urinal. The MP's voted in favour originally, albeit in a hypothetical scenario. And nobody in the House wants to trigger a constitutional crisis.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Using 'openly gay' in a pejorative sense is pretty brazen, even for those pigfuckers.

I've never understood the phrase 'openly gay'. In a world where everyone is straight until they confirm otherwise - a world undoubtedly inhabited by the Mail and indeed all print press - what other sorts of gays are there?

[Bartholomert]

Is Brexit seriously under threat due to this decision?

[Shindig]

Closeted gay can't really be used without kicking off something libelous.

No, Mert. It just goes to a vote in the commons. A similar one happened prior but in a "If we did this, how would you vote?" kinda way.

[Bartholomert]

What if they voted against it for the lulz?

[Jimmy Floyd]

If the Prime Minister tabled a motion to trigger Article 50 and the Commons voted it down, she'd either have to resign (which would solve nothing), or somehow trigger an early election on the platform of triggering it asap on her terms. She would win that easily because Corbyn. Brexit is happening.

In reality the Commons will vote it through.

The Lords will probably send it back, since it's packed full of Lib Dems and other cunts, but the Parliament Act would ultimately apply.

[GS]

The Parliament Act would apply, but it would take about two years to force it through thus making it impossible to leave before the next election or even the next set of European elections.

I imagine any attempt by the Lords to send back the invocation of Article 50 would trigger a constitutional crisis (of sorts) and an early election, where the Tories would go in with a manifesto pledge to effectively purge the upper chamber. It'd be a perfect opportunity to do so, given it's a toxic waste of space these days. They could also threaten to pack the Lords out with Tories in the way Earl Grey did to force the Reform Act through in 1832.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Selfishly, I really want to see Jeremy Corbyn's Labour attempt a general election campaign, just to see what they'd do. The guy makes gaffes just walking out of his front door, never mind when people are actually training their eyes upon him. Thinking first of my country, though, I'd rather not see an election until 2020.

[GS]

I suspect there would be a lot of rallies, whilst the likes of "Chuka" tour the TV studios in evident despair.

You might enjoy this, by the way:

794008355819974656

[Jimmy Floyd]

The dog gag is right up there.

[Lewis]

I couldn't tell whether Nigel Farage completely misread the mood or whether there were too many seethers in the audience. Probably the former.

[Boydy]

794234437181509632

794209187882565636

This sort of stuff is just really depressing.

[Bartholomert]

So we might not get Brexit for another two years? That's kinda a big deal, no?

[Magic]

I love how an openly gay fencer has shat on 17 million racists. Was he a Muslim too? :drool:

[Jimmy Floyd]

794234437181509632

794209187882565636

This sort of stuff is just really depressing.

This stuff has always been there, it's just that until now, well-meaning left-wing liberals like you and I have been able to ignore it and stick to the comment pages of the Guardian.

[phonics]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwX8vO3XUAE4CGP.jpg

Yeah but the real problem is those remonaers. Tearing the country apart they are.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Both sides, had the referendum result been the same margin the other way, would be acting EXACTLY like the other one is now.

[Spammer]

I doubt it. If we voted to remain we wouldn't even be thinking about it anymore. It'd just be business as usual.

[phonics]

No it would be exactly the same as now. The tabloids would be calling lawmakers enemy of the people and the other side would be going, "Ooh-err, does everyone need to be quite so racist"

[Jimmy Floyd]

There might be less of it, but the Brexit lot would still be indignantly saying they want their country back, while the other side would still be saying suck it you lost.

[Shindig]

Free giant map of Britain, guys!

[Kikó]

So in summary , our prisons are fucked, our hospitals are fucked, our choice of power is fucked, our schools are fucked, our economy is fucked and yet still, Corbyn is the shambles.

Love it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

What government would you elect rather than the present one?

[phonics]

So in summary , our prisons are fucked, our hospitals are fucked, our choice of power is fucked, our schools are fucked, our economy is fucked and yet still, Corbyn is the shambles.

Love it.

David Cameron was the greatest PM of a generation mate. Don't know what you're talking about.

[Kikó]

What government would you elect rather than the present one?

That's damned with faint praise isn't it really? It's all shambolic.

[Jimmy Floyd]

That's damned with feint praise isn't it really? It's all shambolic.

It's not even faint praise, but a strong opposition with credible alternative ideas would surely mitigate the shambles to a significant degree. The reason the Tories are drifting gradually rightwards is because the only pressure being put on them is by their own backbenchers.

The nation can't just give Corbyn a free pass to allow this state of affairs to persist because a few loons have taken over the Labour party machinery.

[Yeldoow]

It's not even faint praise, but a strong opposition with credible alternative ideas would surely mitigate the shambles to a significant degree. The reason the Tories are drifting gradually rightwards is because the only pressure being put on them is by their own backbenchers.

The nation can't just give Corbyn a free pass to allow this state of affairs to persist because a few loons have taken over the Labour party machinery.

Wouldn't the best solution be to have a general election then?

The election would (presumably) be mostly fought on what each party thinks Brexit means, and their vision of post Brexit Britain. Labour under Corbyn will either succeed or fail.

The new government and new parliament will have a mandate to proceed with article 50, and Labour will either be united behind Corbyn after a successful election or he'll be gone and they can move onto whoever is next.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Probably would, yeah, which is why it won't happen. Doesn't suit the Tories to kill off Jeremy this early, doesn't suit Labour to get wiped out just at the moment, it probably doesn't even suit the SNP because for them, at Westminster elections, the only way now is down.

[Boydy]

That fixed term parliament act is looking a bit silly now.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Another Lib Dem success story.

[Boydy]

It makes sense for coalition governments, I suppose.

[Lewis]

795024734471802880

lol

[Jimmy Floyd]

Even by his standards that is an absolutely useless position to take.

[Lewis]

I suppose it makes sense if their plan is to force an election and then pitch themselves to the bitters; but then you're counting on otherwise decent people deciding that remaining in the European Union (which is what it will boil down to) is so important that it is worth making Jeremy Corbyn the Prime Minister in order to do so, whilst simultaneously losing every marginal seat.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The bitters are already voting for them. It's about 23% of the electorate or whatever. The people they need to win are pretty much all leavers, or at least in leave-friendly demographics, and half of these are non voters anyway.

Just more votes on twitter.

[Boydy]

The bitters are already voting for them.
I don't know about that. Most of the people I see on social media crying about the EU aren't fans of Corbyn at all.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They won't all be fans, but they're all in London and other irrelevant seats. He needs to win Sun readers, Mail readers etc. This all assumes he even gives a monkey's about winning power, mind.

[elth]

Surely May has the votes to jam Brexit through with or without Labour. Corbyn has to oppose it if he wants to be remotely credible in opposition.

[Spoonsky]

I've never understood the phrase 'openly gay'. In a world where everyone is straight until they confirm otherwise - a world undoubtedly inhabited by the Mail and indeed all print press - what other sorts of gays are there?

Tom Cruise.

[Byron]

Surely May has the votes to jam Brexit through with or without Labour. Corbyn has to oppose it if he wants to be remotely credible in opposition.

She's got a majority of 10 at the moment so it's a little frail. She can probably rely on the DUP to vote with her so that gives her a majority of 18, plus any Labour MP's that go against Corbyn (which there will be more than a few) and the few other Northern Irish parties.

[Shindig]

Again, voting against people is what got us into this mess. Allegedly.

[Dquincy]

Again, voting against people is what got us into this mess. Allegedly.
How can anything get done with democracy? But still better than the totalitarian route.

[Spikey M]

Did Terry May actually use the phrase 'not for turning' on Brexit?

The Maggie comparisons were weak as fuck to start with, without this bint encouraging it.

[Lewis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgIib_Uj1T4

Probably the most serious discussion Nigel Farage has ever had, and he looks a bit daft.

[GS]

795024734471802880

lol

Every country in the world has access to the single market. Christ.

http://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2016/09/daniel-hannan-repeat-after-me-single-market-membership-and-single-market-access-are-not-the-same-thing.html


She's got a majority of 10 at the moment so it's a little frail. She can probably rely on the DUP to vote with her so that gives her a majority of 18, plus any Labour MP's that go against Corbyn (which there will be more than a few) and the few other Northern Irish parties.

It'll go through the Commons, because most of those who voted against it (outside the SNP, who are appealing to a whole different demographic of lunacy) would get annihilated in a general election. The likes of Ed Miliband going back to Doncaster North (69% leave) and explaining that he's blocking Article 50 because he wants continued free movement would be a laugh mind you, so maybe that's the way forward.

[Spikey M]

We went to the Cenotaph today, was pretty good even if some of the pomp is a bit lol. Saw John Bercow up close and breifly got in his way. He thanked me for moving whilst also looking at me like I'm a cunt. :drool:

My phone has also been blowing up (3 text messages(!!!!)) With people telling me they saw me on tv. How do you start an IMDb page?

[Lewis]

I'm reading Tim Shipman's Brexit book, and, having finished the campaign bits, I think you could make a strong case for Dominic Cummings as the greatest living Englishman. He knew exactly how they would win it, ignored everybody telling him otherwise, played the press like whatever those eighty million Turks play, and even saw off a coup attempt by telling the plotters what a shit job they were making of it whilst they were doing it.

It's definitely worth reading, and most people come out of it with their reputations enhanced except for David Cameron (saw it all in party-management terms, and clearly never understood the Eurosceptics); his innermost circle of gimps (complacent, and seemingly found wanting without the newspapers on their side); Nigel Farage, Arron 'Chippiest Man Alive' Banks, and the other UKIP idiots (just wanted to talk about immigration from the off, and then use defeat as a Farage vehicle); Labour tribalists (made everything more difficult with their separate campaign, and ignored it all until too late because they were more bothered about local elections); and obviously the European stiffs.

Gideon comes out of it looking quite good. He called it all in advance (he never wanted a referendum), and, despite his shit interventions blowing up in his face (as well as his own party management crap), you can see how he was willing to gamble his credibility and his career for something he truly believed in. Plus he never took it all personally like Cameron did, falling out with Michael Gove and keeping an enemies list of people who to shaft in the post-victory re-shuffle. But then journalists have been saying for years that he is a top, top bloke, whilst Cameron is a bit of a low-level dickhead, so that would be about right. Also, Jezza gets the benefit of the doubt, since he just comes across as a hapless tit being sabotaged by Seamus Milne.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'll read that. Dominic Cummings was getting sworded by the pesto posse throughout the campaign, so I imagine he'll have a good Christmas.

[Lewis]

Number 10 JUST DON'T GET IT with their results night 'moussaka and bottled beer'.

The grief lobbed at Andrew Marr earlier for interviewing Marine Le Pen on TODAY OF ALL DAYS made me lol. Let's just ignore the other bloke he had on, who loves the IRA and wants rid of the Falklands.

[Boydy]

Outrage as Honey G does 'gangster moves' during X Factor Remembrance Sunday performance (http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/outrage-honey-g-gangster-moves-9253930#rlabs=1%20rt$sitewide-ch%20p$11)

[GS]

I'm surprised Wor Jez is still considered relevant enough to bother interviewing.

A Le Pen win in France would be hilarious, if only for the sanctimonious hand-wringing it would elicit from Miliband, Farron, Clegg et al. The progressive majority is struggling, certainly.

[GS]

Outrage as Honey G does 'gangster moves' during X Factor Remembrance Sunday performance (http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/outrage-honey-g-gangster-moves-9253930#rlabs=1%20rt$sitewide-ch%20p$11)

This sort of thing is why you're getting President Trump.

[Boydy]

I don't think it's 'the left' crying about that.

[Spikey M]

Outrage as Honey G does 'gangster moves' during X Factor Remembrance Sunday performance (http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/outrage-honey-g-gangster-moves-9253930#rlabs=1%20rt$sitewide-ch%20p$11)
Cynically cashing in on dead soldiers is fine, just act solemn.

[Lewis]

I reckon she's some sort of recovering nutter.

[Shindig]

It's an episode of Quantum Leap where DMX has to solve a middle-aged woman's marital problems. Except he tries to rebuild his rap career because he's DMX and he's skint.

[ItalAussie]

This sort of thing is why you're getting President Trump.

That one's 100% your lot. :cab:

[GS]

That one's 100% your lot. :cab:

I wasn't being entirely serious.

[ItalAussie]

I wasn't being entirely serious.

It can be a bit hard to tell, given the actual crazies on both sides. :D

[Jimmy Floyd]

Everyone's now moaning about the prospect of a Lord Farage. Surely they realised that if you had an elected Lords (by PR!) he would be among the first five people through the democratically elected door?

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

Anyone watching Question Time? That bint Cat Boyd going on about the EU referendum with supposedly such strong views then admits to abstaining from voting. :D

[Offshore Toon]

Anyone watching Question Time? That bint Cat Boyd going on about the EU referendum with supposedly such strong views then admits to abstaining from voting. :D
The collective moan after she said it, then also after she said "I was out the country at the time." :D Such a fucking wanker. "I'm not a politician, I'm a human rights activist" - you're an attention seeker, sweetheart.

[GS]

http://order-order.com/2016/11/18/labour-three-line-whip-boundary-blocking-bill/

Labour attempting to kill a bill designed to restore greater parity in the voting system and remove their in-built bias. I'm sure we're all shocked.

[GS]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxjtaBeXAAA3TWx.jpg

This is quite interesting. It's from internal Vote Leave polling. It suggests that there was a stable 31% (or so) who were always going to vote to stay, but that the strengthening of the "Out" vote continued throughout. In the end, the Vote Leave side won enough round to "taking the risk" of voting to leave.

It's also interesting that was still around 15% of people by the fortnight before the vote who wanted to vote leave, but perhaps not enough to run the perceived risk of it. It sort of demonstrates the core point that the UK has always been Eurosceptic in the main, and the clear Europhile tendency exhibited in the political classes just isn't particularly prevalent in the populace as a whole.

[Boydy]

While we've all been distracted by Trump, this has been happening - 'Extreme surveillance' becomes UK law with barely a whimper (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/19/extreme-surveillance-becomes-uk-law-with-barely-a-whimper).

Great.

[Bartholomert]

While we've all been distracted by Trump, this has been happening - 'Extreme surveillance' becomes UK law with barely a whimper (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/19/extreme-surveillance-becomes-uk-law-with-barely-a-whimper).

Great.

Yeah that's fucking awful.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The Guardian can hardly whinge about it, they've been the ones diverting all their resources into moaning about elections in other countries. Journalists are supposed to highlight such things.

[Boydy]

The Guardian can hardly whinge about it, they've been the ones diverting all their resources into moaning about elections in other countries. Journalists are supposed to highlight such things.

Yeah, I agree. I first saw something about it on Twitter a couple of days ago and couldn't find anything about it on The Guardian at the time. It seems to have barely been covered anywhere.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They've also (in common with other newspapers, but more hypocritically in their case) been sacking good and experienced journalists hand over fist of late.

[Boydy]

Okay, but still, the issue isn't really journalism here, is it?

[Jimmy Floyd]

What is the issue, more howling at the moon because the opposition is too incompetent to mitigate any of the terrible legislation that all governments write? Same problem the Tories had in the late 90s.

[Boydy]

Yes, it's the opposition's fault that the government are making terrible laws.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Shouldn't have done it imo.

[Spammer]

Sooo....when does this start? And can anyone recommend a decent VPN?

[Magic]

Was always going to happen. Always.

Dare I say a VPN or any sort of encryption will be lighting up the needles in the haystacks.

[Raoul Duke]

Opera browser has a built-in VPN

[Boydy]

Opera browser has a built-in VPN

That's not going to hide traffic coming through torrent clients though, is it?

Does it keep logs or anything?

[Magic]

That's not going to hide traffic coming through torrent clients though, is it?

Does it keep logs or anything?

Yes, all traffic would go through the tunnel. It would be slower, though.

EDIT: sorry missed the Opera thing.

[Spammer]

There was some Indian browser that done a built in something or other too. Can't remember it's fucking name.

[GS]

Yes, it's the opposition's fault that the government are making terrible laws.

An effective opposition draws attention to terrible legislation, and makes its passage very difficult and / or impossible. It mobilises sympathetic media outlets to highlight the issue and concerns, and uses this to put pressure on backbenchers in government ranks to break the whip. They've a majority of 12, they should be incapable of getting shit legislation through.

But no - we have an opposition who are still fighting amongst themselves over whether socialism is the way forward, and a 'liberal' media who have spent the last five months in existential crisis over Brexit and now Trump.

It's shit legislation, but this is what happens when nobody holds government to account properly. Assuming Cameron had the same Commons majority in the last parliament, this wouldn't have got through because Wor Ed would have mobilised Labour properly and there was no virtue-signalling over other countries which the media would have been engaging in in lieu of reporting the fucking news.

[GS]

This is amazing, by the way. The fucking state of the lad:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT8fkefynzM

[Shindig]

He looks like he should be on a ventriloquist's lap.

[Lewis]

I've just watched that. His LinkedIn (https://uk.linkedin.com/in/james-mcgrory-b03458105) bills him as follows:


A communications professional with extensive experience working at senior levels at the heart of government and within a political party. A track record of designing and delivering multi-platform communications strategies and providing strategic advice to extremely senior political figures. An aptitude for conducting media relations in a high pressure, fast moving and sensitive environment. Skilled in crisis communications and reputation management.

You reckon, mate?

[Shindig]

Those last two are striking. :D

[Lewis]

His record of 'providing strategic advice to extremely senior political figures' sounds good until you scroll down and see that he means Nick Clegg. Was your advice shit, or did he just ignore you? Either way...

[GS]

I read a great article a few months back on the British establishment. It took the view that the British establishment wasn't a closed shop, in the sense that you could work your way into it. The issue was that it was impossible to fall out of it, no matter how shit you proved to be in your supposed speciality. Once you made it in, there was always a cushy number to fall back on as part of the chumocracy.

This lad seems a prime example. Ryan Coetzee is another one - he oversaw the Lib Dem campaign in 2015, yet somehow - somehow - got an incredibly senior position in Stronger In regardless - on Nick Clegg's recommendation, no less. Well played, lads.

[niko_cee]

Adam Crozier.

The CEO gravy train is one of the most absurd aspects of modern society.

[Kikó]

David Gill as well.

[Lewis]

I read a great article a few months back on the British establishment. It took the view that the British establishment wasn't a closed shop, in the sense that you could work your way into it. The issue was that it was impossible to fall out of it, no matter how shit you proved to be in your supposed speciality. Once you made it in, there was always a cushy number to fall back on as part of the chumocracy.

This lad seems a prime example. Ryan Coetzee is another one - he oversaw the Lib Dem campaign in 2015, yet somehow - somehow - got an incredibly senior position in Stronger In regardless - on Nick Clegg's recommendation, no less. Well played, lads.

Was that the Janan Ganesh one? The irony there is that his seamless rise to saying/writing nothing of note for money is largely down to associating with the right politicians at the right time.

[Raoul Duke]

I don't think is particularly different to any other sector really - in my area there are plenty of dickheads who I've seen go onto to various high-level roles when they've got the smarts of a piece of toast. Even further up it can't be that different, except you also get fuck off golden hello/goodbye payments.

[Lewis]

The Peter Principle is the closest humanity has ever come to a unified theory of everything.

[GS]

Was that the Janan Ganesh one? The irony there is that his seamless rise to saying/writing nothing of note for money is largely down to associating with the right politicians at the right time.

I think it was, aye.

[phonics]

Milo's been banned from speaking at a school by the "Department For Education’s counter extremism unit".

lol

[Boydy]

:D

Ahaha.

[Lewis]

It sounds like they advised them to cancel it on security grounds, which is still bollocks, but he seems to be spinning it as them shutting it down because they consider him to be an 'extremist', presumably because his stock has tanked since Twitter banned him.

[Raoul Duke]

I'm not sure there's much other way to describe these cretins than "extremists"?

[ItalAussie]

What business would that jackass have being at a school in the first place.

"One day, you too could be a professional troll. It's a growth industry!"

[GS]

You'd be better letting him speak and then getting someone educated to shred him publicly.

I'm not sure what you achieve by no platforming him / banning him, other than allowing certain quarters to wallow in self-righteousness.

[Boydy]

No you wouldn't. It's a fucking school.

[Lewis]

The only speakers we had in school were those people who come in and tell you a story about a dead junkie that finish with '...and that young lad was my son', so I always lol when I read about politicians going and having stupid debates in schools.

[Offshore Toon]

We had this freak come in and sing to us.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn_gysBo3jU

Everybody just took the piss out of him after. Who organises these wankers to tour the country?

[GS]

No you wouldn't. It's a fucking school.

Which would be fine if the pupils, who we've all supposedly saved from bigotry and exposure to unpleasant opinions (lattes all round to celebrate), couldn't just go and watch everything he's ever said on YouTube. Except now it's without any context and you've turned it into something 'controversial'.

Have a panel and let the others shred him instead. Banning him achieves nothing when you have fucking YouTube - it'll have done nothing but heighten interest and thus the number of them who'll go and watch his shite to see what the fuss is about.

[ItalAussie]

You don't just invite random people to schools. It tends to be people with a specific message. Schools aren't Open Mike Night at the Apollo.

I go quite often to schools around Sydney to talk about studying mathematics, and associated applications/job prospects. There's a whole process involved in getting green-lit to talk at schools. It may be a bit more lax in the UK, but I can't imagine that you can simply turn up at the gates and tell them that you've got stuff what you want to say.

It isn't even a "Milo says mean things" objection. There are plenty of people who just have no reason to be at a school, and I can't see any particularly compelling reason why he isn't one of them.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I wouldn't have that weirdo in my house, let alone a school.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The only speakers we had in school were those people who come in and tell you a story about a dead junkie that finish with '...and that young lad was my son', so I always lol when I read about politicians going and having stupid debates in schools.

At the 2005 election we had a full hustings with all the candidates for the local constituency in our school, which in our case was Twickenham. The Lib Dem candidate was of course 'Dr' Vince Cable, who at that time was a hero of the people. Labour had some useless Asian, the Tories had this bloke called Paul Maynard who I thought at the time was just a retard, though years later I discovered he really was in the sense he has cerebral palsy (he's now MP for Blackpool). The Green bloke was a lunatic, and UKIP at the time were seen as amiable cranks.

As I recall, everyone agreed that Labour were a safe bet on the economy, and the main issue of debate was 'the environment'. What times they were.

[ItalAussie]

My school was pretty religious. We had people come to tell us that if we got within a hundred yards of a joint our brains would liquify, if we kissed someone before marrying them our genitals would explode, and if we even considered touching someone of the same sex we'd die of super-AIDS.

Weirdly, I got a really high quality scientific education there. I think the science teachers were all involved in a large-scale mass coverup to ensure that we did.

[phonics]

Web users in the UK will be banned from accessing websites portraying a range of non-conventional sexual acts, under a little discussed clause to a government bill currently going through parliament.

The proposal, part of the digital economy bill, would force internet service providers to block sites hosting content that would not be certified for commercial DVD sale by the British Board of Film Classification (BBFC).


It is contained within provisions of the bill designed to enforce strict age verification checks (https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/may/26/pornography-industry-user-id-checks-adult-websites-privacy) to stop children accessing adult websites. After pressure from MPs, the culture secretary, Caroline Bradley, announced on Saturday that the government would amend the bill (https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/nov/19/pornography-sites-face-uk-block-under-enhanced-age-controls) to include powers to block non-compliant websites.



In order to comply with the censorship rules, many mainstream adult websites would have to render whole sections inaccessible to UK audiences. That is despite the acts shown being legal for consenting over-16s to perform and for adults in almost all other liberal countries to film, distribute and watch.


Free speech campaigners labelled the move a “prurient” invasion into people’s sexual lives. “It should not be the business of government to regulate what kinds of consensual adult sex can be viewed by adults,” said Jodie Ginsberg, chief executive of Index on Censorship (https://www.theguardian.com/world/censorship).
Pictures and videos that show spanking, whipping or caning that leaves marks, and sex acts involving urination, female ejaculation or menstruation as well as sex in public are likely to be caught by the ban – in effect turning back the clock on Britain’s censorship regime to the pre-internet era.

What a shit country. Love how Conservatives spent years banging on about the nanny state only to get into power and shove a load of this and surveillance nonsense through.

[Jimmy Floyd]

What constitutes a 'non-conventional sexual act'? Are we now a missionary-only nation?

[Boydy]

When they came for the pornography,
I did speak out because I'm a seedy little pervert.

[phonics]

What constitutes a 'non-conventional sexual act'? Are we now a missionary-only nation?

Whoops I didn't quote that bit.

"Pictures and videos that show spanking, whipping or caning that leaves marks, and sex acts involving urination, female ejaculation or menstruation as well as sex in public are likely to be caught by the ban"

[John]

Female ejaculation as a 'non-conventional sex act'. :D

[phonics]

It's Magic I feel sorry for.

[Boydy]

Female ejaculation as a 'non-conventional sex act'. :D
Thinly veiled 'I'm great at sex' post.

[Byron]

No sex please, we're British.

[Lewis]

There cannot be a censor, or a censorship that does not degenerate into absurdity and corruption, there never has been, and there never will be.

Not this time. This time we're doing it for the right reasons.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

The censorship regime has led to bizarre understandings between the producers and regulators, Barnett said. One is the “four-finger rule”, which limits the number of digits that can be inserted into an orifice for sexual stimulation.

[John]

I'd never considered the BBFC as regulating porn releases, but I suppose it's obvious once you think about it. What a strange, demoralising job that must be. I wonder if they write those incredibly dry content guides they do for theatrical releases.

[Lewis]

The news is contrasting the 'bravery' of Jo Cox and the 'cowardice' of her killer. Is that fair? You've got to have some balls to take things that far (same with suicide bombers).

[Yevrah]

How the fuck are they going to enforce those porn rules and why on earth are they bothering?

Can't remotely see it happening.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The news is contrasting the 'bravery' of Jo Cox and the 'cowardice' of her killer. Is that fair? You've got to have some balls to take things that far (same with suicide bombers).

A pair of meaningless words now thanks to Blair. And when you call out actual cowards as being so, you get called harsh.

[Lewis]

Poor woman and everything, but you would think it was Abraham Lincoln.

[Lewis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UAkt4ypUxE

Brillo at it again. :cool:

[Boydy]

https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/5eh108/porn_websites_in_the_uk_will_be_banned_from/

Top comment:


Porn is the scapegoat. When infrastructure is set they can start blocking whatever the want.

It's bang on, isn't it?

[phonics]

How the fuck are they going to enforce those porn rules and why on earth are they bothering?

Can't remotely see it happening.

Really, really easily. See the Internet in China. Considering a surveillance bill was passed similar to there just a few days ago, get used to it.

[Yevrah]

Really, really easily. See the Internet in China. Considering a surveillance bill was passed similar to there just a few days ago, get used to it.

Haven't been to China, but I have been to Thailand and their efforts to block websites or articles that painted them in a bad light were an absolute piece of piss to navigate.

Ok, China might be stricter, but presumably that's also why it's much easier to enforce there. Magic's hardly going to be sent to prison for viewing some of the shit he's referenced on here, for example.

We're just a far too liberal country and population for this to be enforced properly.

[phonics]

It's a piece of piss to get around in China, and then the government use state surveillance to work out who's accessing VPNs and trace it back. It's just the first step towards a Police State. They don't care that Magic is watching porn, they do care if he's organising anti-establishment protest AND watching dodgy porn.

P.S. I love that you say "We're just a far too liberal country" after voting Brexit and being a-okay with unelected, absolute nutter, Theresa May as PM for the duration.

[Jimmy Floyd]

P.S. I love that you say "We're just a far too liberal country" after voting Brexit and being a-okay with unelected, absolute nutter, Theresa May as PM for the duration.

Since when does voting for/against Brexit have anything to do with how liberal one is?

[phonics]

I've stated several times that in my opinion, no matter what GS says, Brexit wasn't a libertarian movement. You can disagree with it, but that's my belief.

You've stated several times that you think the Trump vote and the Brexit vote are linked due to anti-globalism. Was the Trump movement a liberal movement?

[Henry]

Labour need to stop trying to appease deficit fetishists. All of this "balancing the books" stuff is nonsense. There's no need to balance the books as long as long-term borrowing is at a lower rate than long-term growth.

[Raoul Duke]

This Autumn statement earlier was pretty lol-tastic. Kudos for fisting estate agents on their made-up fees, but the rest of it is a giant #holyfuckthisbrexitthingisseriouslygoingtofuckussi deways-fest/gate

[Yevrah]

What they really need to do is get better people. That Woman is paid to do that job, full time and hadn't got a fucking clue. What's she doing all day?

Phonics should also put his tin hat away.

[phonics]

What they really need to do is get better people. That Woman is paid to do that job, full time and hadn't got a fucking clue. What's she doing all day?

Phonics should also put his tin hat away.

http://i.imgur.com/mSE2DjS.png

Tin foil hat donned. Thanks.

edit: By the way that word 'illegally' in the headline was just made legal by the bill passed earlier this week.

[phonics]

By the by, this is hilarious
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cx-0Ae1XUAIn3i5.jpg

[Boydy]

Is that real?

[Boydy]

Also, phonics, you're nifty with Photoshop, can you mock me up a 'ceiling cat is watching you masturbate' picture but with Theresa May looking out of the hole? Thanks.

[phonics]

Yes and the fact they couldn't even get a high enough resolution image of Hammond for the web speaks volumes about the backbench cretins that are in charge.

Bring on Jez, at least their incompetence is obvious rather than insidious.

[Lewis]

Sixty billion quid to blow the European Union out (or even apart) is the bargain of the century.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I've stated several times that in my opinion, no matter what GS says, Brexit wasn't a libertarian movement. You can disagree with it, but that's my belief.

You've stated several times that you think the Trump vote and the Brexit vote are linked due to anti-globalism. Was the Trump movement a liberal movement?

I'm not sure 'movement' is the right word for Brexit, polls have suggested that such a result was possible/likely for many years. And my point was that Yev as an individual having voted to Leave is not a pointer for how liberal or not he is, even if many of the leading 'Leave' and Trump figures were not liberal (although it must be said many, not least Boris and Gove, were).

I personally voted Leave because long term I think the only two options are full integration or leaving, and the former is a dreadful idea. Short term worries about money here and immigration there are pretty irrelevant. Now that opinion doesn't get invalidated because Farage is a twat.

[Lewis]

The vast majority of leavers are peaceful, law-abiding...

[phonics]

I'm not sure 'movement' is the right word for Brexit, polls have suggested that such a result was possible/likely for many years. And my point was that Yev as an individual having voted to Leave is not a pointer for how liberal or not he is, even if many of the leading 'Leave' and Trump figures were not liberal (although it must be said many, not least Boris and Gove, were).

I personally voted Leave because long term I think the only two options are full integration or leaving, and the former is a dreadful idea. Short term worries about money here and immigration there are pretty irrelevant. Now that opinion doesn't get invalidated because Farage is a twat.

1) Yev doesn't represent the country, his liberalism or lack of it literally doesn't matter.
2) Doesn't that Brexit book that everyone praises, Paul Simon(?), have both Johnson and Gove thinking that it would never actually happen but it was politically the smart side of the fence to stand on?
3) See 1. I literally do not give a single shit about why or how you voted when referencing the context of the vote at large.

[Yevrah]

I also didn't vote leave. :sorry:

[John]

1) Yev doesn't represent the country, his liberalism or lack of it literally doesn't matter.
2) Doesn't that Brexit book that everyone praises, Paul Simon(?), have both Johnson and Gove thinking that it would never actually happen but it was politically the smart side of the fence to stand on?
3) See 1. I literally do not give a single shit about why or how you voted when referencing the context of the vote at large.

You need choose your words more carefully. Your original post implied that you were referencing Yev's specific 'Leave' vote, not the overall result.

[Lewis]

Paul Simon.

[Jimmy Floyd]

'The context of the vote at large' is just whatever narrative you choose to paint onto the question 'Should the UK remain a member of the European Union?', it probably obscures more things than it explains. My anti-globalist explanation is also going to be imperfect because there is a whole patchwork of reasons why people voted it through.

The fact of us being a liberal country hasn't changed, because liberalism is a necessary result of globalisation (which itself is an inevitability), and it won't change until we do something mental and world-breaking like nationalising land or opening up concentration camps for gays.

[phonics]

Definitely not. You can clearly read it about three ways if you so wish. This was John btw, I'm battling a bug in Google Chrome with quotes.