The UK Politics Thread [Wot did Jez do now...]

[GS]

The Tories like winning. No matter what else, they know how to win elections.

They do.

The FTPA does have problems, mind you. They'd need Labour to vote with them for a two thirds majority, which you can't imagine they'd be overly keen on. Similarly, repealing the act would require it to go through the Lords. Even if they want one, Labour can effectively block it if they so wish. Nick Clegg has much to answer for.

[Lewis]

Do you reckon Jezza will lead the applause after PMQs him like he did for Tony Blair?

[GS]

Not really. This puts Gove back on the ticket.


Nah party rules state that there still has to be a leadership contest.

The 1922 Committee have confirmed that May is the new leader of the party with immediate effect.

Well done.

[Magic]

:harold:

[phonics]

752537233396162560

Proper end credits sequence on an absolutely bizarre couple of weeks.

[Lee]

They do.

The FTPA does have problems, mind you. They'd need Labour to vote with them for a two thirds majority, which you can't imagine they'd be overly keen on. Similarly, repealing the act would require it to go through the Lords. Even if they want one, Labour can effectively block it if they so wish. Nick Clegg has much to answer for.

The Tories could just initiate a vote of no confidence in their government. Only needs a simple majority. There are then two weeks for somebody else to form a government. But there is nobody else, so it would be election time.

In any case both Labour and the Lib Dems have today publicly called for a GE. May ought to challenge them to follow through with that and vote in favour.

[Disco]

I read that as the John Cena music, imagine my disappointment.

[Boydy]

752537233396162560

Proper end credits sequence on an absolutely bizarre couple of weeks.

:D

[Lee]

Labour are thick as pigshit. Owen Smith is going to launch his leadership bid tomorrow, apparently.

Splitting the anti-Corbyn vote. :face:

They'd better be pretty fucking sure that Corbyn isn't getting on the ballot.

[Bartholomert]

That's some Monty Python level stuff

[Boydy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89yxVQMgXRo

[Magic]

Not available but the wolf of wall street one is very good.

[Boydy]

Not available? :(

But yeah, I watched that one too. :D

[Magic]

It works embedded but not if I click on it to go to the YouTube app. I know some videos aren't playable on mobile maybe that's it.

[Byron]

Labour are thick as pigshit. Owen Smith is going to launch his leadership bid tomorrow, apparently.

Splitting the anti-Corbyn vote. :face:

They'd better be pretty fucking sure that Corbyn isn't getting on the ballot.

Well the BBC are saying they've seen advice given to Unite by their lawyers that's states unequivocally that Corbyn is automatically entitled to stand as Party Leader.

Find someone and unite behind them you twats.

[GS]

Labour are thick as pigshit. Owen Smith is going to launch his leadership bid tomorrow, apparently.

Splitting the anti-Corbyn vote. :face:

They'd better be pretty fucking sure that Corbyn isn't getting on the ballot.

You're taking the piss, surely.

What the fuck is he thinking?

[Shindig]

I've tried to listen to this Eagle woman's latest speech but she keeps blowing out her mic with her voice. Direction, not volume. Plus you look, sound and have all the mannerisms of a woman popping round for tea to tell you about God,

[Baz]

If it ain't Corbyn it should be Andy Burnham. Everyone else is a bellend.

[Magic]

Well the BBC are saying they've seen advice given to Unite by their lawyers that's states unequivocally that Corbyn is automatically entitled to stand as Party Leader.

Find someone and unite behind them you twats.

Yeah he was saying that was some electoral college rule that was scrapped in '92 or something and that the current leader automatically goes on the ballet.

[Shindig]

They just need someone who can give a good speech whilst looking directly at a camera. None of this village hall bullshit. Is one of Tony's kids old enough to run?

[Magic]

Alan Shearer?

[Lewis]

Labour in MELTDOWN, and Jezza was at a Cuba solidarity meeting. :cool:

[Magic]

The pound went up against the dollar when Leadsom pulled out. :cool:

Hmm, can get Euro's at 1.18 (so around 1.15 at independent foreign exchange places)...should I get a sneaky 100 quid now before it plummets again.

[Lee]

The currency movement is bollocks for now. The markets were responding to uncertainty. The consensus appears to be that things will go south when Article 50 is activated. How far south is, I imagine, dependent on things that even a Lee not pissed out of his face on ouzo could begin to understand.

[GS]

I agree - invoking Article 50 is when the 'uncertainty' starts, although I assume we continue to be in the single market until such time as we formally leave the EU on a given date. This assumes we don't transition to some bollocks EEA-style arrangement.

I was thinking earlier that May should ask Cameron to head up the trade negotiation team. I don't know how you'd organise it so he's not humiliated, but I reckon Wor Dave would be quite good at it. We should be ready with trade deal after trade deal to throw at the markets before leaving, to demonstrate we're not becoming some isolationist shithole in the Atlantic.

[Lewis]

Beyond the obligatory directorship somewhere, I bet Dave just retires and does nothing. He doesn't need the money (nor does he seem the money-grabbing sort), and what global bullshit could you conceivably see him wanting or bothering to put his name to?

[GS]

752606890748674048

I really, really hope she calls their bluff.

[Magic]

I bet fucking loads of people vote Labour.

[GS]

I doubt it.

[Spikey M]

The SNP have finished Labour for the forseeable. Well, the SNP and Millibands inability to eat a hotdog normally.

[Shindig]

Might as well add a hung parliament to this clusterfuck.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Beyond the obligatory directorship somewhere, I bet Dave just retires and does nothing. He doesn't need the money (nor does he seem the money-grabbing sort), and what global bullshit could you conceivably see him wanting or bothering to put his name to?

He could become chairman of the governors at the private school his kids will now be able to go to.

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

What do the Mirror honestly expect to happen if an election was called now? :harold:

[ItalAussie]

Theresa May seems smart. I don't agree with much of her political philosophy, obviously, but she seems like a sensible sort who won't be necessarily swayed by weekly opinion polls. Probably the best hands you could have hoped for, really.

EDIT: She probably should call an election, because she'd walk it in.

[Byron]

If Labour knows what's good for them they'll shut up about any talk of an election, they'd seriously end up with less than 150 seats if an election was called.

[Byron]

The Unions have now said that if Corbyn isn't on the ballot they'll take the party to court to stop the leadership election.

I'm lost for words.

[GS]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnHhfpMXEAA3gEg.jpg

What's even more pointless about the unions doing that is that it's not as if Corbyn is popular with the union membership any more. I suspect the likes of McCluskey etc. see this as a 'last stand' for their type of politics and they simply aren't prepared to lose it. If he's on the ballot and wins again, then just lol. I suspect he'd win a straight fight with anybody given the state of entryism into the party, but he'll clearly walk it if Smith runs too.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Apparently Angela Eagle's constituency office had a brick thrown through the window last night.

A kinder, gentler politics.

[GS]

Her staff have also stopped answering the phone because they're just getting abuse from Momentum.

Viva la revolucion.

[phonics]

Done. I'm done.

752808388766076928

[Magic]

Pretty sure phonics has turned in to a Twitter bot.

[Magic]

HAHAHAHA! LOOK! SHE MADE A MISTAKE! FIRST DAY IN HER NEW JOB AND SHE WALKED TO THE WRONG CAR! HAHAHAHA!

Fucking retards.

[niko_cee]

That Cameron video is brilliant, but it would be all the better if the audio went on for a bit longer. Right, good . . .

> let's get on with removing all the Ts from the keyboards?
> where are the keys to the really good drinks cabinet?
> can somebody get me those launch codes?

[GS]

The Labour NEC are having a secret ballot to decide whether or not Jez needs the necessary nominations to get on the ballot or is just straight through. This is expected to be bad for him, as some union leaders may say he does in contradiction to their public statements and it's thus very tight.

He was asked to leave the meeting before the vote and, true to form, has refused to do so. Very good.

[niko_cee]

Is there any chance he'll be able to cobble them together if he needs to? What is it, MPs, MEPs? Is there another subset of fuckwits he could delve into as well?

[GS]

MPs and MEPs. He has 40 in the Commons who didn't give him a vote of no confidence, but some of them have since told him to resign apparently. There are also some who voted no confidence (e.g. Lisa Nandy) who have said they want him on the ballot.

It's hard to say. The thing is he's not being denied a place on the ballot - he's simply being told he has no automatic right to be there. It'll go down like a lead balloon with the membership, but I doubt he can get to 51. At least that means if there's a split, it's the smaller, mental lot who are required to break off and not the larger, semi-sensible component.

[Jimmy Floyd]

He's had it. The question is what the newly invigorated left idiots do now.

[GS]

I strongly suspect a secret ballot means that's the case. The leader-in-name-only taking the party to court because he can't muster sufficient nominations is going to be amazing.

The fallout from the membership will also be spectacular. I expect there will be a few more bricks through windows.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Is Angela just a stalking horse for Tom Watson/whoever he wants to win?

There are two possible outcomes that I can see, either a Momentum approved candidate gets on the ballot in which case they will probably win and the party splits, or the candidates are all 'moderates' and Momentum kick off and call it an elitist Blairite coup, in which case who knows.

[Yeldoow]

Although the rules seem to be a bit vague I don't see the benefit to trying to keep him off the ballot. If they don't think Eagle (or anyone else) can beat him in a leadership election what's the point? If they think that they would win regardless why risk alienating the Corbyn supporters further by excluding him from the vote?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Although the rules seem to be a bit vague I don't see the benefit to trying to keep him off the ballot. If they don't think Eagle (or anyone else) can beat him in a leadership election what's the point? If they think that they would win regardless why risk alienating the Corbyn supporters further by excluding him from the vote?

Because he's fucking awful. And it basically is a coup by the MPs against the membership.

Ideally they need a unity candidate from the centre left, but the Corbynistas are so rabid and deranged I'm not sure there's any such thing.

[GS]

I assume 'Angela' wouldn't lead the party into 2020 - she'd be there solely as the candidate to unify the non-mentals around. She'd then stand down and they'd have an open contest, and some chancer like 'Chuka' would run.

I can't see a Momentum approved candidate getting on the ballot if they block Corbyn automatically going on here. The MPs/MEPs aren't that dense.

[Boydy]

So have a stupid leadership contest now to piss off the membership who voted for Corbyn to elect a leader who clearly doesn't have any of the leadership qualities that Corbyn supposedly lacks only for her to stand down in a year or so to have a bunch of spaddy muppets run again in a massive fucking bland-off?

Sounds like a great plan.

[niko_cee]

Yeah. A plan where Jez gets back on the ballot next time and wins.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Whatever happens, the central problem is the same: Labour despises the working class it was founded to serve, and there has been no indication of any change to that.

[GS]

They need to clear out the mentals from the party. It's that simple. And you're a mental if you still support Corbyn at this stage of his leadership.

The level of misjudgement of the situation from some Corbyn supporters, including Boydy, is genuinely frightening.

[Boydy]

Oh fuck off, you gigantic fanny.

[GS]

Oh fuck off, you gigantic fanny.

This sort of delusion is why he's unelectable, and why any party advocating his policies is unelectable in this day and age.

[Yeldoow]

Because he's fucking awful. And it basically is a coup by the MPs against the membership.

Ideally they need a unity candidate from the centre left, but the Corbynistas are so rabid and deranged I'm not sure there's any such thing.

I understand that, but the way they are going about it makes no sense.

Beside how is Eagle any better than Corbyn anyway? Surely this is making the party less electable, not more.

[GS]

I understand that, but the way they are going about it makes no sense.

Beside how is Eagle any better than Corbyn anyway? Surely this is making the party less electable, not more.

Corbyn is unelectable. They need someone to beat him if it's a straight one on one contest. Eagle is from the left of the party, clearly gives a shit about it and isn't in this solely for personal ambition. You could try running a Hilary Benn, but he'd just be slaughtered by Momentum. Eagle might have a chance, however small, in a straight one on one.

The key is getting rid of him and changing the process to avoid situations like this, where people with no previous affiliation with the party can sign up and vote for someone immediately.

I think you're underestimating the state of entryism in the party and the situation Labour finds itself in at present. This is a genuine existential crisis.

[Boydy]

This sort of delusion is why he's unelectable, and why any party advocating his policies is unelectable in this day and age.

That's not delusion, it's just telling you to fuck off because you're talking shit.

[Boydy]

People join because they like the new leader and his policies.

It must be entryism!

https://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/maps_and_graphs/2009/03/16/LABOUR_MEMBERS.gif

[Yeldoow]

Corbyn is unelectable. They need someone to beat him if it's a straight one on one contest. Eagle is from the left of the party, clearly gives a shit about it and isn't in this solely for personal ambition. You could try running a Hilary Benn, but he'd just be slaughtered by Momentum. Eagle might have a chance, however small, in a straight one on one.

The key is getting rid of him and changing the process to avoid situations like this, where people with no previous affiliation with the party can sign up and vote for someone immediately.

I think you're underestimating the state of entryism in the party and the situation Labour finds itself in at present. This is a genuine existential crisis.

But there was no rush for them to get rid of Corbyn.

This "coup" has made the majority of the PLP look terrible and I would have thought less likely to win a snap election.

If there's is no general election they could have waited to get rid of him. Labour haven't exactly been a disaster since he became leader. I'm sure between now and the next (scheduled) election in 2020 there would have been opportunities to get shot of him.

But instead of making the most of the backlash against the referendum result from those who voted remain and the chaos of the Tory leadership election, they have have tried to bully out their elected leader, failed to do so and then two weeks later put up Angela Eagle to contest the leadership. Based not on policy but leadership ability, despite the fact she seems like one of the few politicians with less leadership qualities than Jeremy Corbyn.

In doing so they have seemingly opened themselves up to Theresa May calling a snap election and taking an even bigger majority.

There seemed to be an obvious opportunity to gain ground on the Torys but instead have completely self destructed.

Where do they go from here? Elect Eagle, and fuck her off in a year because she useless as well? They would be a joke of a party.

[Bartholomert]

Dude do you seriously believe in his policies? They've been exhaustively discredited every where that they have been implanted, do you just think that 'they weren't implemented properly, and it would be different this time'?

[Boydy]

I thought that was Yevrah at first but Yeldoow gets it.

[niko_cee]

Should be funny to see what Andy Burnham does once Jez is confirmed not on the ballot. Presumably all the other worms will throw their hats in at that stage.

[niko_cee]

I wonder if the state of the Labour leadership heavily dictates the timing of the next general election. If Jeremy stays, then no need to rush one through, just let him carry on his merry way, but get a new leader in and call one straight away to cripple ruin/them (and then get Jeremy back in the aftermath).

Going off some of that seriously Machiavellian shit that has already been laid at May's door regarding the leadership election I wouldn't be surprised.

[Byron]

So they've had a secret ballot and after all of the wrangling, bricks and death threats Corbyn is in the leadership contest.

So who do I vote for next?

[Shindig]

Fuck it. I'll vote for Corbyn the Unkillable.

[Magic]

GS is seething because he knows Corbz is the next PM. Socialism. :drool:

[Davgooner]

Not sure there should have been any question about him being on the ballot. The geezer clearly doesn't give a fuck and probably lols himself silly when he gets inside his front door every night. I hope he wins the next vote and all the Blairite twats top themselves.

[Lee]

People join because they like the new leader and his policies.

It must be entryism!

https://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/maps_and_graphs/2009/03/16/LABOUR_MEMBERS.gif

Who gives a fuck if membership has increased? Members are not representative of the electorate. It isn't the membership that a party needs to impress; they already have those votes. Apart from the young people who have joined to support Corbyn, of course. They won't bother to take any responsibility for their own futures.

The Labour Party has just killed itself for at least a decade. It's mental. I haven't voted for the fuckers in over ten years but the country is in need of a moderate leftist opposition. Anybody favouring more Corbyn is favouring years of Tory governments pretty much unopposed. And at this time, with the elevation of a notoriously illiberal Home Secretary to PM.

You fucking idiots. Still, at least you have your principles.

[Yevrah]

Why is more not being made of the idiots who supported him (50+ of them, right?) to get him on the ballot in the first place?

[Lee]

Why is more not being made of the idiots who supported him (50+ of them, right?) to get him on the ballot in the first place?

They are idiots but that wasn't the main problem. The issue was the MiliSpacker allowing for £3 members to decide the leadership of one of our major parties.

He went to Russell Brand's house to try to win a GE as well. :face:

[Yevrah]

Oh I know they changed the rules, but sans those 50 it can't happen.

[Lewis]

I read that as 'modernist leftist opposition' and wondered whether such a thing exists.

[Yevrah]

The BBC have gone with it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36778135

They're going to be stuck with him until he dies. :D

[Shindig]

Brand's dip into politics was great, to be fair.

"Look at me, all intellectual and that even though I know nuthink about them politicks!" <writes a book about them politicks>

After the election, "Well, I'm done with them politicks. I'm all disillusioned."

[Boydy]

Who gives a fuck if membership has increased? Members are not representative of the electorate. It isn't the membership that a party needs to impress; they already have those votes. Apart from the young people who have joined to support Corbyn, of course. They won't bother to take any responsibility for their own futures.

The Labour Party has just killed itself for at least a decade. It's mental. I haven't voted for the fuckers in over ten years but the country is in need of a moderate leftist opposition. Anybody favouring more Corbyn is favouring years of Tory governments pretty much unopposed. And at this time, with the elevation of a notoriously illiberal Home Secretary to PM.

You fucking idiots. Still, at least you have your principles.

Chill out, you're almost getting as bad as GS.

The point I was making about membership was that it's clearly not just entryism by the hard left.

I like Corbyn, obviously, but my head could be turned if someone was put forward who I thought might actually be able to win an election. The likes of Keir Starmer or Dan Jarvis might be decent. But it's not Angela fucking Eagle. She's worse leadership material than Corbyn. She's fucking awful.

And it'd need to be conducted in a decent manner. Not this underhand backstabbing that's going on at the minute. It's just making the whole party look bad.

[Magic]

What an absolutely dreadfully pretentious term 'entryism' is. Fucking losers.

[Boydy]

Did you have to look it up?

[Magic]

Yes. It should just be called trolling or something.

[Magic]

Also I apologise for not knowing a term coined by the political elite that purely references political wankery. My bad!!!

[Boydy]

You could've just looked it up and said nothing instead of revealing all your insecurities.

[Magic]

Pure filibustering, mate.

[Magic]

Sorry, did you have to look that up? Of course you did, you filthy little deviant wanker.

Got me so fucking hard right now. Admit it? Come on, show me your insecurities you little bell cloud.

http://i.imgur.com/sG8Axvq.gif

[GS]

But there was no rush for them to get rid of Corbyn.

This "coup" has made the majority of the PLP look terrible and I would have thought less likely to win a snap election.

If there's is no general election they could have waited to get rid of him. Labour haven't exactly been a disaster since he became leader. I'm sure between now and the next (scheduled) election in 2020 there would have been opportunities to get shot of him.

But instead of making the most of the backlash against the referendum result from those who voted remain and the chaos of the Tory leadership election, they have have tried to bully out their elected leader, failed to do so and then two weeks later put up Angela Eagle to contest the leadership. Based not on policy but leadership ability, despite the fact she seems like one of the few politicians with less leadership qualities than Jeremy Corbyn.

In doing so they have seemingly opened themselves up to Theresa May calling a snap election and taking an even bigger majority.

There seemed to be an obvious opportunity to gain ground on the Torys but instead have completely self destructed.

Where do they go from here? Elect Eagle, and fuck her off in a year because she useless as well? They would be a joke of a party.

Ordinarily, a 'coup' of this nature would have resulted in the resignation of the leader. Ultimately the purpose of the official opposition is not only to hold the government to account, but also to maintain a shadow government which represents a viable alternative to the country. Jeremy Corbyn needs to be seen as a 'viable alternative' for PM. He can't even convince his own MPs. He can't lead the PLP, because the PLP don't believe in him - so he can't maintain a shadow cabinet, never mind the 95 positions for a shadow 'government', and thus is not a viable alternative for office. It makes him unelectable, and there's no going back now.

They've had the worst local election results for a party in opposition since 1982, there's a good argument to say that Labour 'lost' the referendum in their heartlands (with Jezza actively sabotaging the remain campaign), Labour are currently eight points behind the Tories - who will surely get a bounce from coming together post-May, and polling suggests that Corbyn is not considered a credible PM by the electorate.

Eagle isn't a viable alternative - but I really don't think Corbyn supporters understand the point that he can't win. Even if he had a united party behind him, which he never will because the gap in views on things like trident etc. is simply too big, it would be far too easy for the Tories to paint him as simply not suitable for the job. They did this tremendously well with Miliband. Corbyn wouldn't stand a chance, and Labour would get routed.


Chill out, you're almost getting as bad as GS.

The point I was making about membership was that it's clearly not just entryism by the hard left.

I like Corbyn, obviously, but my head could be turned if someone was put forward who I thought might actually be able to win an election. The likes of Keir Starmer or Dan Jarvis might be decent. But it's not Angela fucking Eagle. She's worse leadership material than Corbyn. She's fucking awful.

And it'd need to be conducted in a decent manner. Not this underhand backstabbing that's going on at the minute. It's just making the whole party look bad.

It's making the whole party look bad, says Boydy as he fumbles desperately with the lock on the stable door.

[Magic]

It's making me look bad, says GS as he fumbles desperately with the lock on his chastity pants.

[Boydy]

It's making me look bad, says GS as he fumbles desperately with the lock on his chastity pants.

:lol:

[Byron]

Sorry, did you have to look that up? Of course you did, you filthy little deviant wanker.

Got me so fucking hard right now. Admit it? Come on, show me your insecurities you little bell cloud.

http://i.imgur.com/sG8Axvq.gif

What the fuck is that? Genuinely in tears here :D

[Lee]

Chill out, you're almost getting as bad as GS.

The point I was making about membership was that it's clearly not just entryism by the hard left.

I like Corbyn, obviously, but my head could be turned if someone was put forward who I thought might actually be able to win an election. The likes of Keir Starmer or Dan Jarvis might be decent. But it's not Angela fucking Eagle. She's worse leadership material than Corbyn. She's fucking awful.

And it'd need to be conducted in a decent manner. Not this underhand backstabbing that's going on at the minute. It's just making the whole party look bad.

No. I'm no Tory. I'm just not blind to the fact that Labour are completely fucking themselves. I want a decent centre left opposition. Instead Theresa fucking May can do what she likes with a majority of just 12. What do you think would happen if May called an election for this autumn. Labour would go sub 200 seats, easily.

The people being underhand are Corbyn and his merry gang of Momentum wankers. They're cunts. And I bet half of them don't even vote. A lot of them are in it to be parachuted into safe seats after they go on their big revenge deselection mission.

And where is the backstabbing? They're telling him he is shit to his face. All I keep hearing from his defenders is what an honourable man he is. He is nothing of the sort. He is deliberately sinking his party and harming the very people he claims to want to help by ensuring years of unbroken Tory government.

[GS]

No. I'm no Tory. I'm just not blind to the fact that Labour are completely fucking themselves. I want a decent centre left opposition. Instead Theresa fucking May can do what she likes with a majority of just 12. What do you think would happen if May called an election for this autumn. Labour would go sub 200 seats, easily.

The people being underhand are Corbyn and his merry gang of Momentum wankers. They're cunts. And I bet half of them don't even vote. A lot of them are in it to be parachuted into safe seats after they go on their big revenge deselection mission.

And where is the backstabbing? They're telling him he is shit to his face. All I keep hearing from his defenders is what an honourable man he is. He is nothing of the sort. He is deliberately sinking his party and harming the very people he claims to want to help by ensuring years of unbroken Tory government.

It's also hypocritical in the extreme for Corbyn to expect loyalty from the party, given he rebelled against the party whip over 500 times and was actively involved in Tony Benn's leadership challenge against Neil Kinnock (the elected leader of the party, lads) in the eighties. He can't have it both ways, although he's no doubt determined to do so.

They've included some genuinely strange caveats on voting rules as well. Anyone who signed up after January 12th won't be allowed to vote, yet people have a two day window to pay £25 to sign up later this week and they will get a vote. Well thought through, that.

[Yeldoow]

Ordinarily, a 'coup' of this nature would have resulted in the resignation of the leader. Ultimately the purpose of the official opposition is not only to hold the government to account, but also to maintain a shadow government which represents a viable alternative to the country. Jeremy Corbyn needs to be seen as a 'viable alternative' for PM. He can't even convince his own MPs. He can't lead the PLP, because the PLP don't believe in him - so he can't maintain a shadow cabinet, never mind the 95 positions for a shadow 'government', and thus is not a viable alternative for office. It makes him unelectable, and there's no going back now.

They've had the worst local election results for a party in opposition since 1982, there's a good argument to say that Labour 'lost' the referendum in their heartlands (with Jezza actively sabotaging the remain campaign), Labour are currently eight points behind the Tories - who will surely get a bounce from coming together post-May, and polling suggests that Corbyn is not considered a credible PM by the electorate.

Eagle isn't a viable alternative - but I really don't think Corbyn supporters understand the point that he can't win. Even if he had a united party behind him, which he never will because the gap in views on things like trident etc. is simply too big, it would be far too easy for the Tories to paint him as simply not suitable for the job. They did this tremendously well with Miliband. Corbyn wouldn't stand a chance, and Labour would get routed.

But the timing and manner of the coup is entirely self destructive.

The coup is not about anything that Corbyn has done as leader or any election results. The majority of the PLP have made no secret of the fact that they never wanted him to be leader, and rather than trying to make the best of it they've very obviously tried to force him out at the first opportunity.

It's not about his policies or his performance as leader at this stage. The key thing is the timing and manner of the attempted coup.

The way that the resignations were staged, the motion of no confidence and the lack of an actual leadership challenge made it very clear that aim was simply to force out someone that the PLP didn't like rather than an any attempt to replace him with someone better. That they then failed to do so made them look hilariously incompetent. That they then tried to stop him from standing once the leadership challenge finally came about just showed that they believe that the party membership still wants him as leader, and that they simply believe that they they know best and don't need to listen to their party at all.

The upshot of which is that if they is an election this year I don't see Labour having a pray of winning and more likely the Tories will win a greater majority.

If they had instead united behind Corbyn, and attacked the Tories for chaos following the referendum, the shambles of a leadership campaign the Tories had and tried to force a general election in the summer/autumn they would have stood a better chance than they do now. If they had won then happy days for them, if as they believe Corbyn (even with the full support of the party) is unelectable then they could have binned him off then without the risk of losing half the party. Corbyn would only have been around 3 months longer and whilst the Tories would have an extra year and a half on their term, that will undoubtable be the case if May has the sense to call an election now anyway but Labour wouldn't be the joke they are now.

Labour could also then have a proper leadership contest with Corbyn gone rather than having to pick on candidate to run against him so as not to split the anti-Corbyn vote, leaving them with the pathetic choice of Corbyn or Eagle.

[GS]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnMbnODWEAAAnjA.jpg

Matt hitting the nail very firmly on the head.

[Jimmy Floyd]

How the fucking hell has Corbyn got on the ballot? :D

Love Jezza. Thou shalt not pass. If he wins, they'll split I think. They'll have to.

[Magic]

What are they going to split to? Tory Lite and lunatic marxists?

[GS]

But the timing and manner of the coup is entirely self destructive.

The coup is not about anything that Corbyn has done as leader or any election results. The majority of the PLP have made no secret of the fact that they never wanted him to be leader, and rather than trying to make the best of it they've very obviously tried to force him out at the first opportunity.

It's not about his policies or his performance as leader at this stage. The key thing is the timing and manner of the attempted coup.

The way that the resignations were staged, the motion of no confidence and the lack of an actual leadership challenge made it very clear that aim was simply to force out someone that the PLP didn't like rather than an any attempt to replace him with someone better. That they then failed to do so made them look hilariously incompetent. That they then tried to stop him from standing once the leadership challenge finally came about just showed that they believe that the party membership still wants him as leader, and that they simply believe that they they know best and don't need to listen to their party at all.

The upshot of which is that if they is an election this year I don't see Labour having a pray of winning and more likely the Tories will win a greater majority.

If they had instead united behind Corbyn, and attacked the Tories for chaos following the referendum, the shambles of a leadership campaign the Tories had and tried to force a general election in the summer/autumn they would have stood a better chance than they do now. If they had won then happy days for them, if as they believe Corbyn (even with the full support of the party) is unelectable then they could have binned him off then without the risk of losing half the party. Corbyn would only have been around 3 months longer and whilst the Tories would have an extra year and a half on their term, that will undoubtable be the case if May has the sense to call an election now anyway but Labour wouldn't be the joke they are now.

Labour could also then have a proper leadership contest with Corbyn gone rather than having to pick on candidate to run against him so as not to split the anti-Corbyn vote, leaving them with the pathetic choice of Corbyn or Eagle.

I agree it was evident that many didn't want Corbyn to be leader. By the same token, he didn't want Tony Blair to be leader and he voted against the party whip in excess of 500 times as a backbench MP. He was actively involved in the coup lead by Tony Benn against Neil Kinnock. He has advocated plenty of positions, e.g. Trident, which directly oppose official party policy. He cannot get away with claiming that the party should be loyal to him. Collective shadow cabinet responsibility means that MPs therein would have to go out, in public, and advocate positions which they are almost certainly going to be on record disagreeing with and which they will fundamentally disagree e.g. Trident. It's entirely understandable why many feel they can't serve under him, and it's evidence of the disconnect there is between the membership and leadership, and the PLP and the rest of the electorate.

The coup was evidently brought about the referendum result. Regardless, the loss of confidence by his parliamentary colleagues matters. Referring to the 'mandate from the membership' is all fair and well, but one of the reasons why there is no provision for a leader to automatically 'lose' his post in the event of a vote of no confidence is because nobody conceived a situation in which the leader who would not honourably stand down after such a vote. I think the way he's behaving is a disgrace frankly.

You can say what you want about attacking the Tories, but their leadership contest was short, brutal and they've all immediately united behind the new leader. Leadsom wasn't up the job, and she was cut off at the legs within a week. Labour would never try and force a general election with Corbyn in charge, because it's evident the public don't think he can be PM. They would go sub-200 seats if that was the case, particularly given the strength of the Brexit vote in certain Labour seats meaning they'd be likely to lose seats to UKIP. The Tories would like sweep your standard swing seats like Nuneaton. This isn't going to change, and leaving him in place is engaging in ideological dick waving. If you believe the Tories are evil and need stopping, then Jeremy Corbyn is not the horse you should be betting on.

[GS]

How the fucking hell has Corbyn got on the ballot? :D

Love Jezza. Thou shalt not pass. If he wins, they'll split I think. They'll have to.


What are they going to split to? Tory Lite and lunatic marxists?

They'd be best striking a deal with the Lib Dems, and reconstituting the old 'Liberal' party. Pretend it's a return to their roots, and hijack the Lib Dem infrastructure and base. They'd lose a number of their seats in any election, no doubt, but at least they'd have something to build on. They'd immediately become the opposition too (assuming all 172 split off), so it would significantly reduce the coverage Wor Jez gets if he's reduced to the fourth biggest party in the Commons behind the SNP.

[Jimmy Floyd]

That would be awful. A better bet would be to go all Football Manager, and retain the core of the thing without technically having the name. Progressive Labour? Real Labour? Continuity Labour? The Fairness Party? The choice is theirs.

[GS]

It might be, but at least it moves them into some sort of structure that already exists. Presumably any non-Labour Labour party, if you will, sees them completely stripped of any form of fund-raising, party infrastructure etc.

Is there really that much difference between moderate Labour and the Lib Dems? You could probably move a number of the Labour MPs, like Liz Kendall, into the left of the Tory Party and not consider it lol-worthy.

Then again, Tim Farron would be their leader. Fucking hell.

[Magic]

Why would peers and funders keep funding a bunch of Jew hating unelectable mad socialists?

[GS]

Why would peers and funders keep funding a bunch of Jew hating unelectable mad socialists?

Labour gets a lot of its funding from the unions.

[Shindig]

Because a lot of new positions have suddenly came up in his cabinet. They way the miner's lot gushed over him at the Gala says a lot, too.

[Lewis]

They won't split. Ever.

[Jimmy Floyd]

They'll have to. If Shirley Williams had the BOTTLE...

[Jimmy Floyd]

Is there really that much difference between moderate Labour and the Lib Dems?

Yes. The Lib Dems represent smug people with nice kitchens. Labour represent people who have to have their food cut up for them.

[GS]

They're both smug and appeal to your standard metropolitan liberal type. The only difference is the Labour brand allowing them to pretend they represent the working classes they so obviously despise.

I remember reading that Gordon Brown was of the view that the Liberals should just pack it in, because they were splitting the vote and preventing this much-vaunted PROGRESSIVE MAJORITY from storming it. It'd be good to see him discredited further, if nothing else.

[GS]

752994128976285696

Calm down, mate.

[Lewis]

I don't think much to his backing dancers.

[igor_balis]

This is all fucking mental lads.

[Magic]

Lol at him describing basically his whole party as fucking useless.

[Byron]

All he needs to do is stick his keys in between his fingers and start windmilling.

[GS]

Owen Smith is running too, and he (apparently, anyway) has more support amongst MPs than Eagle. There's a discussion that there may be a 'hustings' in the PLP to decide on a unity candidate to put to the membership. He's 5/4 to be the next leader, and Eagle has moved out to 7/1. That's some effort, that. You wait two weeks to run, have your event overshadowed and then someone few have heard of overtake you on the outside.

The new rules on who can and can't vote, which are seen as being advantageous to a challenger, was a tied vote last night (apparently). Jez had already left the NEC meeting to take a lap of honour with the 500-people-who-are-representative-of-the-country-at-large outside - so he missed the vote and thus caused himself difficulty.

[GS]

This is quite good mind you, and would sum up what's happening in Labour at the minute.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/philipcollins/article3382546.ece

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnPKF5VWYAAlJZ2.jpg

[Jimmy Floyd]

Owen Smith is running too, and he (apparently, anyway) has more support amongst MPs than Eagle. There's a discussion that there may be a 'hustings' in the PLP to decide on a unity candidate to put to the membership. He's 5/4 to be the next leader, and Eagle has moved out to 7/1. That's some effort, that. You wait two weeks to run, have your event overshadowed and then someone few have heard of overtake you on the outside.

The new rules on who can and can't vote, which are seen as being advantageous to a challenger, was a tied vote last night (apparently). Jez had already left the NEC meeting to take a lap of honour with the 500-people-who-are-representative-of-the-country-at-large outside - so he missed the vote and thus caused himself difficulty.

'Are you a horse?' as the great Jamie McDonald once said.

[phonics]

I'm no financial whizz or Yevrah so can someone explain how you sell osmething with a negative interest rate and then who is it that loses the money on this bond. The government or the person who purchases it?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnPHZrZXEAAUl75.jpg:large

[phonics]

P.S. Whoever is writing Ruth Davidsons jokes needs a raise.

[GS]

The SNP have literally no sense of occasion whatsoever.

[Byron]

This SNP lot need to fuck off.

[Jimmy Floyd]

'Scotland has been taken out of the European Union against its wishes'.

So has Surrey. Suck it up, Hamish.

[GS]

Cameron is genuinely great at the despatch box.

Labour refusing to stand, and the SNP not even clapping. It's a bit embarrassing, really.

[Kikó]

I'm no financial whizz or Yevrah so can someone explain how you sell osmething with a negative interest rate and then who is it that loses the money on this bond. The government or the person who purchases it?

The person who purchases it.

[phonics]

The person who purchases it.

Then why would you buy it? I understand it's 'guaranteed' like any Bond but if the bond is worth less every year you own it, what's the point? Or will you get back what you spent on the bond but if you sell it on you'll lose the money?

[Lewis]

Cameron is genuinely great at the despatch box.

Labour refusing to stand, and the SNP not even clapping. It's a bit embarrassing, really.

Nobody should be clapping. Do it elsewhere.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Guess who was the first Prime Minister to depart to applause in the chamber?

Yeah, right first time.

[Lewis]

lol at Owen Jones' article about the 'most disastrous premiership since Neville Chamberlain' (and whining about missed deficit targets). I have:

1. St. Margaret
2. Clement Attlee (look at me being all queer)
3. Harold Macmillan
4. Winston Churchill
5. James Callaghan
6. David Cameron
7. Harold Wilson pt. I
8. John Major
9. Harold Wilson pt. II
10. Tony Blair
11. Anthony Eden
12. Gordon Brown
13. Edward Heath

It's pointless including Alec Douglas-Home, although he donned Wilson good and proper.

[Jimmy Floyd]

If the criteria is succeeding on its own terms, which I assume is the only way Clem climbs into the top 5, then Tony's got to be higher surely. Although lol at him now, I guess.

[Lewis]

I've done it on how they played it. Attlee communising us wasn't particularly great in the long run, but he had proper things to deal with, and it was all the rage back them. By contrast, Blair deserves credit for inventing pasta, but acting the big man on the back of a boom is easily done.

[ItalAussie]

Then why would you buy it? I understand it's 'guaranteed' like any Bond but if the bond is worth less every year you own it, what's the point? Or will you get back what you spent on the bond but if you sell it on you'll lose the money?
I'm not 100% certain, but I was told that bonds with negative rates are essentially betting on inflation outpacing the losses, or something like that.

[Magic]

I've done it on how they played it. Attlee communising us wasn't particularly great in the long run, but he had proper things to deal with, and it was all the rage back them. By contrast, Blair deserves credit for inventing pasta, but acting the big man on the back of a boom is easily done.

Can you give reasons why for each one out of my own personal interest. Don't act like it's a chore either you've got fuck all we else to do plus you love it.

[Boydy]

Can you give reasons why for each one out of my own personal interest. Don't act like it's a chore either you've got fuck all we else to do plus you love it.

:D

But yeah, do this. I'm interested too.

I'm surprised by Callaghan at 5. And Macmillan at 3.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I can't think of a single reason for Sunny Jim to be above Wilson I, but no doubt he'll soon be along to explain why that opinion outs me as a homosexual.

[mikem]

Then why would you buy it? I understand it's 'guaranteed' like any Bond but if the bond is worth less every year you own it, what's the point? Or will you get back what you spent on the bond but if you sell it on you'll lose the money?

Phonics, something like 25% of the global gov't bond market is selling at negative yields. Banks, pension funds, insurance companies and other financial institutions have to buy it due to liquidity or other regulations. If a country has more capital than actual investment opportunities people will buy it as a hedge because other investments might be worse (or perceived worse.) An example could be companies parking their money in bonds for the liquidity but also because they can recoup a small loss as a tax break, but not a big one. The only way to make money on them is a currency play. If the currency rises enough it will outpace the loss on a small negative yield.

[Lewis]

1. St. Margaret: Saved Britain.
2. Clement Attlee: He invented doctors, sort-of transitioned back from a war economy, and obviously had to juggle all the post-war nonsense like founding NATO (based on the Treaty of Dunkirk and Treaty of Brussels), ensuring we had a viable nuclear capability in spite of the wanker Americans, and being well up for the Cold War.
3. Harold Macmillan: He basically slept through everything related to domestic issues, because he was so scared of going back to the Great Depression that he refused to reform what was already becoming a shitey economy, but he got us back in with the Americans and conned Polaris out of them, he was probably the only person who could have pushed decolonisation forward (think Richard Nixon in China), and he hated communists.
4. Winston Churchill: He ended rationing, initiated thermonuclear weapons research, and sorted a few wars out.
5. James Callaghan: He made TOUGH DECISIONS on the economy that cleaned up a fair amount of the shit he inherited, to the point where by 1979 we were in a much better position than we had been in 1976, although the visible signs of crisis hads made everybody think that that was rock bottom rather than having to beg the International Monetary Fund for money.
6. David Cameron: Won the AV referendum.

From there on it is just various shades of meh and keeping it together, until you get to Anthony Eden (Suez), Gordon Brown (lol), and Traitor Ted ramming us into Europe whilst BOTTLING everything he was elected to do.

[Lewis]

753229327492378624

'Been up to much, son?'
'Well...'

[GS]

Nobody should be clapping. Do it elsewhere.

I think it's fine. You're recognising their public service, after all - and it's only once every few years.

It's not like it's the SNP shitting on Westminster convention all the time and being fucking proud of it.

[Boydy]

In a book I read (When the Lights Went Out by Andy Beckett), it said that Callaghan was basically lied to by the civil service about needing to go to the IMF and that he didn't really need to. I don't know much about that period. What do you make of that?

[mikem]

I'm not 100% certain, but I was told that bonds with negative rates are essentially betting on inflation outpacing the losses, or something like that.

Missed this one, but it is a good point. Not all investors are primarily interested in returns. Pensioners, for example, are more interested in stable income. Negative yield bonds provide that, especially if you view all other assets as riskier.

[Lewis]

In a book I read (When the Lights Went Out by Andy Beckett), it said that Callaghan was basically lied to by the civil service about needing to go to the IMF and that he didn't really need to. I don't know much about that period. What do you make of that?

I haven't read that, but from what I've gathered we could have bumbled on with another round of devaluation and interventionism, so was it more the Treasury being unable to operate outside of its own beliefs and briefing people accordingly?

[GS]

Right, lads. What are we expecting from May's cabinet reshuffle tonight. I'd expect one leaver in one of the great offices (perhaps Fox or Davis at the FCO), with Hammond moving to Chancellor. I wouldn't be surprised if Gove keeps justice, and Boris gets some sort mid-level cabinet job. Osborne is apparently going to be excluded from the government, but nothing would surprise you. Amber Rudd is tipped for home secretary (what) and Priti Patel for promotion (what).

[Lewis]

I would like to see her mess with a few heads and give every job to a man.

[Reg]

http://www.thecanary.co/2016/07/11/simple-question-andrew-neil-leaves-labour-coups-angela-eagle-floundering/

I don't know what to make of that. I thought, "well she's just doing it for personal ambition and doesn't actually oppose Corbyn". But then regardless of whether it's personal ambition or genuine concern, she should have policies and a plan.

Just a mess really, I guess.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Hammond seems nailed on for Chancellor, and some say Justine Greening (ugh) is set for the Foreign Office.

Boris should obviously get Culture, Media and Sport. Bet she'll give him something really dry to make him look like a twat though.

[GS]

The easiest way to discredit Boris is to give him a mid-rank, unimportant job that he can be sacked from in two years after he's fucked it up.

I'm of the view that the FCO needs to be a leaver, because they're going to have to sell why it's great to other states.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'd go the opposite way, it needs to be a MODERNISER who drinks latte and can declare that we are OPEN FOR BUSINESS, and not reduced to a kiosk flogging old Elton John merchandise.

Gideon would have been good. I wonder what he will do now. A dastardly return for Old Gids wouldn't go amiss.

Boris will get the dullest job imaginable. Defra would be cruel, but offers good photo ops. Maybe Transport? He has various vehicles named after him as it is.

[GS]

Gideon would be bloody awful. He needs a spell seething on the back benches. It also means that his various snivelling little minions (alright, Matt Hancock) are immediately booted to the back benches as well.

Boris needs a job that has clear fuck up opportunities without it being irreversible. It's the only way to discredit him sufficiently from running in the future. Consider it a national service. Transport would do, given his various shit initiatives that have ruined the London transport system with his fucking bikes and bike lanes.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'll predict it now.

Chancellor: Hammond
Home: Rudd
Forrin: Greening
Brexit: Grayling
Health: Fox
Education: Javid
Something dull: Hunt
Justice: Gove
Transport: Johnson
Communities & that: Patel
Defence: Fallon
Dfid: Morgan
Defra: Someone shit awful

[GS]

There's not too much I disagree with there, although I do expect a leaver in one of the first three.

I expect Javid would stay where he is. Hopefully she'll create a new 'trade' department, and bung universities back in under education. I'd expect Scotland, NI and Welsh secretaries will stay the same as well.

I'd expect David Davis to get a post as well - he's an outside bet for Brexit, with perhaps Grayling taking on one of the three big offices. Fox was apparently pitching heavily for FCO when he was doing the hustings, so that's another option.

[Lewis]

I saw Gideon being touted as our man in Washington somewhere. That would suit everybody.

[Lewis]

Alright, love. Get inside.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Why would you appoint David Davis to the cabinet? He's a fucking moron. So is Grayling, it must be said.

I left out BIS, so Hunt and his Chinese work ethic can have that. I was going to give education to Crabb, but then I realised he looks like a paedophile.

[Lewis]

David Cameron's son looks like he'll be a prick.

[Magic]

David Cameron's son looks like he'll be a prick.

The mongol one? If so I agree.

[GS]

Theresa May encamping herself firmly in Labour's 'social justice' ground. They'll have literally no USPs left other than "Labour, mate".

[GS]

Boris has just walked into Number 10, apparently. Second after Hammond.

Sound the alarms.

[Yeldoow]

Pretty incredible speech by May. It'll be interesting to see how she intends to back it up.

[Lewis]

She's probably just got him in to 'WAAAAAAY!' right in his face, but Foreign Secretary would be amazing.

[Lewis]

lol he's got it. What a comeback that is.

[Shindig]

Man, no Bullingworth at all, then?

[Lee]

Fuck me, really? Lump on Johnsin as next Tory leader and lots of fucking about before article 50 is activated if so.

[Magic]

I don't understand that. I thought Johnson was bad for May?

[Shindig]

Placing him as Foreign secretary means he has to deal with some of this mess and May gets to send him abroad for shit.

[Lewis]

First stop: Turkey (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/19/boris-johnson-wins-most-offensive-erdogan-poem-competition)

[Magic]

Yes but didn't he think Obama was a baboon or something? How could you realistically deal with a clown that still thinks we're an empire? Or is she hoping he does something stupid and fires him. Isn't foreign sec one of the highest positions?

[Lewis]

David Davis as Brexiteer-in-Chief. This is going well.

[7om]

Was this Boris' plan the whole time? To distance himself from Brexit just enough to not warrant leadership but close enough to get a cabinet position?

[GS]

Fox gets the newly created international trade position.

This is amazing - she's forcing them to take personal responsibility.

How was Boris representing London internationally? I assume he wasn't absolutely shit.

[Jimmy Floyd]

This is a proper reshuffle. Proper comedy awareness on show here from the Big T.

Gove to DEFRA please. Hold them marrows.

[Magic]

Is this good or bad news? SOMEONE TELL ME.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Is this good or bad news? SOMEONE TELL ME.

Nobody knows. It's just news.

[Lewis]

753313509329539073

Goddess Empress May.

[GS]

Davis, Fox and Johnson were all Leavers and they have the three big jobs which will settle our position with the EU and the world thereafter. Davis and Fox are also from the right-wing, which will keep UKIP happy and thus nullify the threat. It's also good in that she can say "well, they supported it, now they can fix it".

Inspiring stuff.

[GS]

753313509329539073

Goddess Empress May.

753297993739169794

:drool:

[Magic]

Is she fucking donning it then?

[7om]

Deep breaths, Magic.

[Magic]

I have no idea what's going on. This stuff seems to be pretty awesome no matter what agenda you have.

[Lewis]

It can only really get better if she puts Michael Gove back in Education.

[Pleb]

What happened to Osborne?

Thought he resigned?

[Boydy]

Judging by his last few posts, GS might be having his first wank tonight.

[GS]

Judging by his last few posts, GS might be having his first wank tonight.

I haven't found the key to the chastity belt yet, peasant.

Amirite, Magic?

[Magic]

:baz:

GS banter is proper awkward.

[Lewis]

Twitter digging up everything Johnson has ever said is pretty fun, and I can't stop watching this (https://twitter.com/lucytobin/status/753319869077135361).

[GS]

:baz:

GS banter is proper awkward.

Still bottling leaving the wife?


Twitter digging up everything Johnson has ever said is pretty fun, and I can't stop watching this (https://twitter.com/lucytobin/status/753319869077135361).

When you think about what the FCO actually does now - aid is the remit of the DfID, Brexit and dealing with the EU is now Davis' remit, international trade etc. is Fox. Presumably the PM's office steps in if there's any actual foreign crisis. So what will Johnson do, really? Go over, meet people, drink a lot and be likeable at dinners? Top, top appointment for that as I imagine Philip Hammond is fucking dull.

[Magic]

I've already left her in spirit.

[GS]

I've already left her in spirit.

Think you'd need acid if you want to dissolve the corpse properly.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It can only really get better if she puts Michael Gove back in Education.

Health, please.

[Magic]

Think you'd need acid if you want to dissolve the corpse properly.

http://fdzeta.com/imgcache/594120dz.gif

[Jimmy Floyd]

Twitter digging up everything Johnson has ever said is pretty fun, and I can't stop watching this (https://twitter.com/lucytobin/status/753319869077135361).

I've watched it more than fifty times.

[Kikó]

He seems clued up.

[Magic]

Twitter digging up everything Johnson has ever said is pretty fun, and I can't stop watching this (https://twitter.com/lucytobin/status/753319869077135361).

The bitch who tweeted that has 'baby blogger' in her biography, which means she's a dictorial fascist in terms of MOTHERHOOD and must tell other mothers who aren't as good as her what to do. Well she can FUCK OFF.

[Magic]

Oh yeah, let's see how she likes being trolled.

[Davgooner]

Unbelievable scenes.

[GS]

753335341306621952

It could be Emily Thornberry, Angela, mate. Stop the seething.

[GS]

Apologies lads, but the sense of seething has been comfortably surpassed.

Fucking hell.

753347612514721792

[Boydy]

Has Owen Smith promising a 'Brexit referendum' been done in here? And they said Jez is out of touch? Fuck's sake.

[Kikó]

Then why would you buy it? I understand it's 'guaranteed' like any Bond but if the bond is worth less every year you own it, what's the point? Or will you get back what you spent on the bond but if you sell it on you'll lose the money?

It's "safe". You lose money against inflation rather than value I think. so for a £100 you may get £101 in 5 years when inflation is 5%.

[GS]

Has Owen Smith promising a 'Brexit referendum' been done in here? And they said Jez is out of touch? Fuck's sake.

I saw that earlier. It's a bit of a strange one, as I'm not sure what he hopes to gain out of it. Most Corbyn supporters are probably sympathetic to the idea the EU is some sort of capitalist conspiracy.

To compound matters for Labour, May has locked in the Brexit vote with her appointments tonight, and encamped herself on traditional Labour ground for its social justice agenda. Jez also needs to reshuffle his shadow cabinet again to account for the new departments created.

[Lewis]

That Owen Smith takes the idea of being a nonentity to new heights. Ed Miliband gave him a shitey non-job because Peter Hain was bored of it, Jezza had to give him a half-decent one because nobody else wanted it, and now he thinks he can lead the party because he looks like Francois Hollande in the eighties.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I don't get all the lefty lolling and despairing about Boris (for that, and not 'Johnson', is his name) being Foreign Secretary. Why not? The Foreign Secretary doesn't actually do anything of note, policy-wise, that hasn't been signed off by the PM and 30 military chiefs, so he can just bumble around charming people.

[Byron]

Hammond has stated that austerity will be put on hold as the economy has entered a new phase.

This is brutal, they're cutting every limb Labour have. After this they will probably be 'those leftie nutters' and nothing else.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Gove, Morgan, Letwin and Hunt all sacked from the government. Theresa not hanging around here. All DC allies seem to be toast.

Somebody give JRM a job.

[Lewis]

I was just about to post the same. I bet Matthew Hancock is in a ditch somewhere.

[Lewis]

Jeremy Hunt stays, the Department of Energy and Climate Change gets shut down and folded into business, and the new Brexit team gets their old building. :harold:

[Lewis]

And now the Department for International Development is rumoured to be going. This is immense.

[Lewis]

Maybe not. Still, Unite have voted to support mandatory re-selection.

[Bartholomert]

When the pendulum swings back and sanity is restored :drool:

[Boydy]

No more sexy Theresa Villiers on the local news. :(

Now it's this gimp as SoS NI:

http://static.memrise.com/uploads/things/images/9482495_121212_1850_52.jpg

[niko_cee]

It's a shame Gove didn't get the jock secretary gig.

[Lewis]

He looks like Amigo when he was a nerd.

[Boydy]

Amigo isn't a nerd any more?

[Lewis]

You're well behind.

[Boydy]

What's he doing now?

[Magic]

Donning it with GS at one of the BIG FOUR. Or at least trying to.

Lol at getting AD and Amigo mixed up

[GS]

Spectacular scenes today. The seething has been incredible.

[GS]

Jeremy Hunt stays, the Department of Energy and Climate Change gets shut down and folded into business, and the new Brexit team gets their old building. :harold:

On this point, the best part about the climate change department being shut down is that the likes of Ed Miliband and Tim Farron have SEETHED on Twitter.

The two best appointments are clearly Leadsom and Patel, mind. She clearly thinks they're both shit, but because they're a) Leave supporters and b) women, she's given them two non-departments. Leadsom now has to handle the transition from EU subsidies for farmers to a new system, which will go down well if she fucks it up. Patel also wrote a few years ago that the DfID was wasting a load of money and should be abolished, so she's basically given her the department and told her that if she thinks it's wrong she can go and fucking fix it.

Ace. She's on her way to Scotland tomorrow, presumably to nut Sturgeon.

[Lewis]

What's he doing now?

Kicking arse.

[Yevrah]

What happened to Osborne?

[GS]

He was sacked.

You couldn't have kept him in really, after his punishment budget shite and the way he got on during the campaign. You can't have someone trying to sell Brexit when he's spent several months saying it'll be the end of civilisation.

[Jimmy Floyd]

What happened to Osborne?

Sacked. He'll now have more time to spend with his world class record collection, and champion the local fete in Tatton.

I would have made him Foreign Secretary. Lol as it is, it's a pretty big job for Boris.

[ItalAussie]

On this point, the best part about the climate change department being shut down is that the likes of Ed Miliband and Tim Farron have SEETHED on Twitter.

That's pure tribalism. Tories are going to Tory, but that's a very worrying sign.

Not everything that pisses off your opponents is a good thing by default.

[Yevrah]

Glad to hear that, he's a horrible, horrible man.

[GS]

That's pure tribalism. Tories are going to Tory, but that's a very worrying sign.

Not everything that pisses off your opponents is a good thing by default.

Our carbon policies have done nothing but 'outsource' our carbon output to other countries, at the expense of British industry (see: Tata steel, where energy cost increases helped to cripple it).

They seem to think it should be treated as a standalone issue, whereas what May has done is put it under the control of a broader department so it can be considered as part of a wider strategy. It's eminently sensible.

Tories going Tory is, of course, a good thing. Hopefully they ingrain enough of their ideas that it's borderline impossible for the Trots to ruin it if they ever get back into power again.

[GS]

Sacked. He'll now have more time to spend with his world class record collection, and champion the local fete in Tatton.

I would have made him Foreign Secretary. Lol as it is, it's a pretty big job for Boris.

Boris is either going to be a joke or inspired - there's no in between.

It makes some sense, though. Real power has been stripped out (aid is with DfID, Brexit with Davis and Trade with Fox). He did a very good job internationally when he was selling London. He can speak several languages. Downing Street takes over in the event of a genuine crisis, and the entire structure is maintained by the civil servants, ambassadors and ingrained bureaucracy the world over. He's just going to fly around giving speeches, being cheerful and basically doing an expanded role that he did well for London.

For domestic reasons, it also keeps him out of the country for vast swathes of time and he's not going to be hanging around the Commons plotting like a mooch. It's also a big job where, if he fucks up, it doesn't leave any lasting damage.

[Lewis]

The newly-created Department of Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy makes it sound like a load of communism is coming our way. There must have been a cupboard full of Ministry of Supply (or even Ministry of Technology) stationary somewhere that they could have saved money on.

[Shindig]

I'd imagine its one of those situations where, however much Boris puts his foot in his own arse, the people he deals with are ultimately dealing with Britain, rather than the cartoon with the 'I'm not allowed scissors' haircut.

[ItalAussie]

Our carbon policies have done nothing but 'outsource' our carbon output to other countries, at the expense of British industry (see: Tata steel, where energy cost increases helped to cripple it).

They seem to think it should be treated as a standalone issue, whereas what May has done is put it under the control of a broader department so it can be considered as part of a wider strategy. It's eminently sensible.

Tories going Tory is, of course, a good thing. Hopefully they ingrain enough of their ideas that it's borderline impossible for the Trots to ruin it if they ever get back into power again.

No party holds onto power forever, no matter how bad it seems for the other guys. The electorate will find a way to kick them out in six to ten years, when they've been established for long enough for the public to blame them for all their problems.

As for climate change, responsibility at least needs to be put as part of a department whose primary purpose is to reduce its impact. If you shunt it into a load of other things, then it'll get subsumed by "jobs and growth", or whatever the actual primary aim of the department happens to be. Given that we seem to have finally actually accepted that scientists were right rather than being a bunch of idiot liars, and that it's a serious issue, it seems like a massive step backwards.

Still, we'll see. It's possible that they may make it work. Wouldn't bet a dollar on it though.

[GS]

No party holds onto power forever, no matter how bad it seems for the other guys. The electorate will find a way to kick them out within six to ten years.

As for climate change, responsibility at least needs to be put as part of a department whose primary purpose is to reduce its impact. If you shunt it into a load of other things, then it'll get subsumed by "jobs and growth", or whatever the actual primary aim of the department happens to be. Given that we seem to have finally actually accepted that scientists were right rather than being a bunch of idiot liars, and that it's a serious issue, it seems like a massive step backwards.

Carbon targets to 2050 are already locked in through legislation. A move to a 'low carbon' economy requires an integrated strategy, not having one department off doing its own thing at the expense of 'jobs and growth'.

Literally the only changes here are that "climate change" isn't in the department's title, and it's now part of a coordinated and integrated strategy to a) deal with it whilst b) considering the issue holistically.

I'd also point out that we produce about 2% of global outputs, so without the Americans, Chinese, Indians and Russians getting their act together, it's not like it matters. Onwards, comrades, to reopen the coal mines.

[Shindig]

The planet's doomed, guys. We fuck too much.

[ItalAussie]

Carbon targets to 2050 are already locked in through legislation. A move to a 'low carbon' economy requires an integrated strategy, not having one department off doing its own thing at the expense of 'jobs and growth'.

Literally the only changes here are that "climate change" isn't in the department's title, and it's now part of a coordinated and integrated strategy to a) deal with it whilst b) considering the issue holistically.You got that last paragraph out with a straight face? I'm sure it'll help the current paradigm to facilitate the scalability of granular synergy.


I'd also point out that we produce about 2% of global outputs, so without the Americans, Chinese, Indians and Russians getting their act together, it's not like it matters. Onwards, comrades, to reopen the coal mines.Responsibility starts at home. It's a bit rich to try and convince them to tackle the real and serious problem (which they are, to greater or lesser degrees) if you aren't doing your bit as well.

EDIT: Australia needs to do the same, for the record. This isn't just finger-pointing at you guys.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm not sure this time, Ital. At the moment I'm not convinced I'll see another Labour government again. All previous rules seem to have gone out the window in the last five or so years.

It's a fucking long way back from where Labour are now to government. Even if they find a decent leader, which is itself years from happening, they have basically had it on a number of levels. The worst ever Tory effort, at the turn of the century, was nowhere near this bad.

[GS]

You got that last paragraph out with a straight face? I'm sure it'll help the current paradigm to facilitate the scalability of granular synergy.

Responsibility starts at home. It's a bit rich to try and convince them to tackle the problem if you aren't doing your bit as well.

I can't say I'm particularly sympathetic to it, no. We've ratcheted up energy costs here on the back of 'reforms' put forward by Ed Miliband. Instead of it benefitting 'the climate', we've just outsourced our carbon output to other countries and cost our industries global competitiveness by making it too expensive for them.

You're quite fond of articulating that Britain isn't a major power any more, so why would the Chinese give a shit if we don't bother?

[GS]

I'm not sure this time, Ital. At the moment I'm not convinced I'll see another Labour government again. All previous rules seem to have gone out the window in the last five or so years.

It's a fucking long way back from where Labour are now to government. Even if they find a decent leader, which is itself years from happening, they have basically had it on a number of levels. The worst ever Tory effort, at the turn of the century, was nowhere near this bad.

It's surely another ten years of Tory government from here, now that the Labour tribes in the north have realised they're all right wing.

[Shindig]

I'd argue in opposition, a decent leader goes a long way. That leader's not coming, though and, if you need a change in government within 6-10 years, you need someone stepping up (someone good, rather than someone who thinks they've got an opportunity) now.

[ItalAussie]

I'm not sure this time, Ital. At the moment I'm not convinced I'll see another Labour government again. All previous rules seem to have gone out the window in the last five or so years.

It's a fucking long way back from where Labour are now to government. Even if they find a decent leader, which is itself years from happening, they have basically had it on a number of levels. The worst ever Tory effort, at the turn of the century, was nowhere near this bad.

It just takes enough time for the public to start blaming you for their problems. There's no chance that the status quo lasts forever, no matter what a shambles the opposition is.

If the Tories hold on for another full decade (and I imagine they will, probably easily), then the subsequent election could probably be won by Inanimate Carbon Rod. There comes a point where it really doesn't matter - people blame their problems on politicians, and no matter how well the government do, individuals will still decide that they have problems.

Politics has a short memory.

[Shindig]

But you need pull from the opposition as well. You generally vote for someone, rather than against them.

[GS]

It just takes enough time for the public to start blaming you for their problems. There's no chance that the status quo lasts forever, no matter what a shambles the opposition is.

If the Tories hold on for another full decade (and I imagine they will, probably easily), then the subsequent election could probably be won by Inanimate Carbon Rod. There comes a point where it really doesn't matter - people blame their problems on politicians, and no matter how well the government do, individuals will still decide that they have problems.

Politics has a short memory.

You're overlooking the benefits of our voting system, which are still subject to pro-Tory boundary changes.

[ItalAussie]

I can't say I'm particularly sympathetic to it, no. We've ratcheted up energy costs here on the back of 'reforms' put forward by Ed Miliband. Instead of it benefitting 'the climate', we've just outsourced our carbon output to other countries and cost our industries global competitiveness by making it too expensive for them.

You're quite fond of articulating that Britain isn't a major power any more, so why would the Chinese give a shit if we don't bother?

Australia's not a world power either. But the only way to tackle climate change is a concerted worldwide effort, and if prosperous nations who produce more carbon than their population share are shirking it, then it makes a worldwide approach impossible. At least the law apparently prevents them from razing the policy to the ground for now.

[GS]

Australia's not a world power either. But the only way to tackle climate change is a concerted worldwide effort, and if prosperous nations who produce more carbon than their population share are shirking it, then it makes a worldwide approach impossible. At least the law apparently prevents them from razing the policy to the ground for now.

Quite, which makes your faux concern a bit pointless.

[ItalAussie]

You're overlooking the benefits of our voting system, which are still subject to pro-Tory boundary changes.

Calling the ability to manipulate the system a "benefit" is a weirdly anti-democratic statement, even for you. :cab:

[GS]

Calling the ability to manipulate the system a "benefit" is a weirdly anti-democratic statement, even for you. :cab:

The system is currently bent in favour of Labour. The proposed boundary change goes some way to rectifying it, but the obvious consequence is that it removes the in-built Labour bias (and is therefore favourable for the Tories).

[ItalAussie]

Quite, which makes your faux concern a bit pointless.
Faux? Because I've never shown any concern about climate change before. Stupid.

There's still a strong anti-science streak in the Tory right, even though the mainstream has finally caught up to grown-up science, and shunting climate change down to the minor end of a portfolio seems like it's being done to mollify them. Hopefully the party leaders are smart enough that it's just a blind, but it looks more like they want to chip away at regulations whenever they deem it necessary, and they'd like it to be away from the front lines while they do.

[ItalAussie]

The system is currently bent in favour of Labour. The proposed boundary change goes some way to rectifying it, but the obvious consequence is that it removes the in-built Labour bias (and is therefore favourable for the Tories).

Fair enough. They still won't rule forever. At some point, the public will eventually decide to scapegoat them for something and it'll stick. When the public decides that it's time for you to go , it typically doesn't matter who the other guys are (although you'd certainly be best served by hoping that they get past the current catastrophe by then).

That said, the Tories are in such a strong position that I can't see it happening for a long time. But things can also turn overnight in politics if you aren't careful.


EDIT: For all the gloating that goes on here, I think we can all agree that an opposition in shambles and government with effectively no checks aside from internal ones is hardly the ideal form of governance. I wouldn't want that even if I was a hardline supporter of the party in power.

[GS]

Nobody is getting elected here solely on the basis they're "not the government". If you look at the last three PMs who've kicked out an existing government - Thatcher, Blair and Cameron were all highly credible individuals and their parties were in very good shape.

It's not as simple as "they're different". Labour have lost Scotland, probably Wales and its heartlands have rebelled en masse over Brexit. I think you underestimate the extent of how 'toxic' Labour as a brand is, particularly in key swing seats. There's literally no reason you'd vote for them over the Tories, and I can't see that changing for many, many years unless they have the sort of root and branch reform they'll never be able to bring themselves to undertake.

[ItalAussie]

Nobody is getting elected here solely on the basis they're "not the government". If you look at the last three PMs who've kicked out an existing government - Thatcher, Blair and Cameron were all highly credible individuals and their parties were in very good shape.

You have been fortunate enough that parties have been in decent shape with strong leaders.

[GS]

You have been fortunate enough that parties have been in decent shape with strong leaders.

It's evidence that kicking out a government requires a clearly viable alternative to be waiting in the wings, not getting it simply by virtue of not being the government.

[Spoonsky]

SACKED. :cool:

Seems like British politics has moved at hyper-speed the past month.

[ItalAussie]

It's evidence that kicking out a government requires a clearly viable alternative to be waiting in the wings, not getting it simply by virtue of not being the government.
If you look further afield, you'll see elections that weren't. The 2012 state election in Queensland left the governing party with six seats, even though the opposition were so calamitous they kicked them straight back out at the first opportunity. People were just tired of the government, and wanted to send a message. There's plenty of elections around like that, if you look for them. This is why a key art of politics is blame deflection - make sure people don't pin their problems on you - but eventually the public gets the better of you.

You can't honestly, and with a straight face, believe that the Tories will hold power forever. If you do, you're going to be disappointed.

[GS]

If you look further afield, you'll see elections that weren't. The 2012 state election in Queensland left the governing party with six seats, even though the opposition were so calamitous they kicked them straight back out at the first opportunity. People were just tired of the government, and wanted to send a message. There's plenty of elections around like that, if you look for them. This is why the key art of politics is blame deflection - make sure people don't pin their problems on you - but eventually the public gets the better of you.

You can't honestly, and with a straight face, believe that the Tories will hold power forever.

I don't, no. I do, however, think you need to recognise that the British electorate aren't going to vote for a party, however shit they may be, solely on the grounds they're not the government.

If Labour appointed a sensible leader, got a shadow cabinet of all the talents together, recognised the gap that exists between its metropolitan liberal MP class and its working class base and addressed it and found some way of salvaging the Scottish operation - they might win post-boundary changes.

However, if Jez We Can was in charge for the next 20 years, they wouldn't win irrespective of whether the Tories bankrupt the country. The Tories would just ruthlessly cut anyone shit out at the legs if they thought they weren't going to win (see: IDS, Howard), and they'd appoint someone as leader who was viable and get behind him.

[GS]

Separately:

753724525880020995

Mentalist.

[Spoonsky]

I always pictured George Osborne as an old man. He's so baby-faced.