Is the dragon how they'll get through the wall? Assuming it can still breathe fire...
Is the dragon how they'll get through the wall? Assuming it can still breathe fire...
It'll breathe ice or cold, presumably.
In the books, there was the Horn of Winter (or the Horn of Joramun) which Mance Rayder spent years trying to find and which they believed could bring down the wall. I don't think it's been specifically mentioned in the TV series, mind you. Sam does find a horn buried in a Night's Watch cloak in one of the earlier series, but I don't recall them making anything of it at the time.
Dragon must be what's bringing down the wall, otherwise they should be in King's Landing by now getting the AC installed.
The Wall is supposed to have magic woven into it to stop the dead from passing, so presumably there'll be something more to it. The cover of the sixth book has a horn on the front cover, too.
There's no internal logic to why they haven't breezed through the wall yet, it's just plot mechanics holding them back.
They've been a couple of hundred yards away from the wall as early as the second season so there's no excuse for them not to have had a pop yet other than that the writers aren't ready for them to do so.
It's long past time to stop pulling things out of the book that haven't appeared in the show to justify sloppy nonsense.
An undead got into Castle Black absolutely yonks ago, so unless that was the only one with the otherwise universal powers of teleportation, there's nothing stopping them.
I thought Hardhome was significantly nearer the wall than they seem to be now.
He wasn't undead when he crossed the wall. He was only revived once he was in the cell.
Let's be honest, they can use "magic" or some other equivalent plot device as a 'deus ex machina' to solve any plot-related difficulty so this is all a bit angels on pinheads.
I have to say, I don't see much merit in trying to find problems. The transition to fantasy epic was inevitable once the White Walkers ceased to be a vague threat lurking somewhere beyond the wall and the dragons were fully grown.
Jon Snow and Beric Dondarrion are technically undead, and they've crossed it twice.
One would assume that 'magic' could make the distinction between a hostile invasion and otherwise. Because it's magic and thus doesn't have to be wholly logical.
Or we'll find that the whole 'magic woven into its foundations' line isn't true and they'll simply scale it (or burrow through) ala the wildlings when Mance Rayder spent the raiding party ahead to attack Castle Black.
It would be a thick wizard who had the ability to cast a spell able to detect intentions then pointlessly limit it to only working on the undead.
Well, it was specifically built to keep out the White Walkers so that would presumably be the argument.
The two that have got south were both wights rather than White Walkers. Benjen Stark said he couldn't go beyond the wall either, but then he was 'revived' by the Children of the Forest (like the White Walkers were originally) rather than being a wight. Perhaps that's what the argument will be.
Again, it's angels on pinheads. Just enjoy the programme for what it is.
Presumably undead raised by ice magic are different to revived by the fire god. Both Jon Snow and Beric Dondarrion seem to be "alive" rather than "undead", and certainly still have their original selves. With the ice guys, it's a lot less sure.Originally Posted by John
Magic, etc.
The really obvious problem is why everyone's considering the Night's King to be a real threat. The Maesters had it right.
"Even if they are on the move, the magic wall has kept them out for thousands of years, and there's no compelling reason to imagine it's going to fail now."
"If it was going to keep working, this wouldn't be much of a series, would it?"
"He's right. Send out the ravens!"
Also - that's a point: WTF was the deal with Uncle Benjen? Literally just turns up to die idiotically
There have been a lot of dumb episodes in this show, but this one takes it as by far the most idiotic.
* The plan is dumb as shit.
* The timeline with Gendry, the raven, and Dany is dumb as shit.
* Winterfell is dumb as shit.
* Benjen ex machina is dumb as shit.
At least we got some good banter between a few of the better characters.
It's noticeable since the showrunners took over the plot how much a load of wank it is compared to when they were using book material.
The show also relied heavily on the machiavellian type characters - Varys, O'Finger, Tyrion, Cersei - and in this season it has reduced all of them (and everyone except Jon and Dany) to a useless shell.
The Hound is still a boss, albeit a stupid one throwing stones at wights. WHY DIDDY DO THAT as Fazeer Mohammed would say.
He gives Jon his horse so he can escape, ergo sacrificing himself for the greater good.Also - that's a point: WTF was the deal with Uncle Benjen? Literally just turns up to die idiotically
To tie up his storyline.Also - that's a point: WTF was the deal with Uncle Benjen? Literally just turns up to die idiotically
On the undead / wall thing. Maybe the wall is just meant to keep White Walkers out magically? Not the wights or Jon et al.
And the wights seemingly have to be fairly close to the White Walkers to be controlled by them (no real proof of that other than there seemingly being stray undead here and there being quite random).
Also Jon & Beric are not really undead, are they?
They were killed and revived, but are still (I assume) warm-blooded and, well, alive?
What's a bit more illogical is how that 3rd season (or whatever) wight came to life in Castle Black, when it seems a White Walker has to be around to raise them.
I think the blue eyes are a fairly clear televisual indicator of what is and isn't undead.
Nah-huh. Joffrey wasn't.
His heart was dead.
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Please spoiler stuff that's in the trailer, some of us purposely avoid them
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Fuck off, that's not a thing.
If you're familiar with fantasy then resurrection and animation sit very separate.
The white walker horses are animated, Jon and Beric are resurrected. Ergo, then former are undead, the latter re-living.
I think it's simpler than that. He is undead, but unlike those following the walkers, he has a singular consiousness continued from his live form. He recognises Jon as a living soul, so sacrificing his undead soul for jobs living soul is a fairly straightforward matter.
I'd say it's courtesy though at this point. I've made an effort to avoid every episode preview so far and been all the better for it.
I'd have been fine with it if that episode had been five odd episodes. It was just an hour of explosions. Character development, man.
The real question is what stopped him from actually getting on the horse along with Jon? Plot armor being too heavy?
I'm also in the "no trailer" camp, in the sense that I don't feel like I gain anything by watching it.
They would have chased the horse with them both on it.
What's Benjen going to do? He can't cross the wall. May as well die valiantly to slow the zombies increase Jon's odds of getting away. He Hodor'd the situation.
That's the least odd thing about the episode, to be honest.
It is indeed.
It did feel like a waste when on their mooch about the North they threw together a series of good characters for brief conversations where previously we'd have had them together for a few episodes or more.
This is a decent read on the episode:
http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/game-ch...er-pres-259689
The more I think about it, the more the makers of this show was dealt a difficult hand by George Martin:
Essentially the books, up until the end of "Dance with Dragons" which I guess is about the end of Season 4 or so, the books keep sort of keep diverging more and more in that they introduce more new characters than they kill off, and more new storylines than the close down (as talented a writer as George Martin is, it doesn't seem - a lot of the time - that while he has an idea of the ending he's not quite sure how to end up there).
Given that up until season 5 then, the writers of the show were following this ever increasing plot complexity of the books, and the suddenly given "freedom" to reach the end goal in 3 seasons, a goal which I think they got an idea of what it should be, but not quite of how they should get there, means they seems to have completely had to sacrifice character development and storylines just to move the whole beast forward quickly enough to reach the end game plotted out to them by Martin.
Because of this, it seems, the more important a character is to the overall plot (Jon, Denearys, Sansa, Arya, Cersei, etc) - the less development they seem to go through and the more insane choices they seem to make (to speed things up), whereas the supporting characters who don't have as much to do with the plot itself - Tormund, Hound, Davos, Tyrion - seem to shine more as their only inclusions seem to be more centered around their respective characters' quirkiness.
Absolutely loving reading all the 'everythings happening too quick!' complaints from the people who were complaining "nothings happening!" previously.
The timelines work fine if you assume they didn't get too far north of the wall to begin with. The time it would have taken for the ice to refreeze on the lake etc.
Short of having captions to say "four days later", what can you do.
I think it's weak because it's down to 7 episodes. If they'd had another three to pad things out a bit and do a bit more character development it would have been fine. But presumably they've blown all the budget on CGI dragons and ice zombies.
I still don't know why Cersei is suddenly going to turn because she sees a zombie (which is the flimsy premise behind the mad, mad excursion beyond the wall). She has one of her own in armour.
It's probably also just a plot device to make sure they are all in the same place so that they can have an Epic stare-down scene.
What I reckon will happen is Cersei will lay a trap (duh) and it'll end up in some sort of end-game fight where a bunch of characters die off, and Clegane gets to show down with the Mountain, Cersei kills Tyrion, Jamie kills Cersei as the last straw, etc.
Wouldn't be completely surprised if Jon Snow dies either actually. He's sort of played his role now: he's shown Denearys the white walkers, he's "bent the knee", and he's her niece.
So essentially she can take up his "fighting the good fight" mantle, while the showrunners don't have to romanticize incest (like, for real). Melisandre always talked about this Azor Ahai and you always sort of assumed it was either Jon or Denearys. And given she controls the dragons, well.
Jon and 'Dany' (that was cringe) are getting sexy time, if not now, then next season. Literally no point in having them stare longingly at each other otherwise. And remember, kids, incest is good.
It would actually be a bit refreshing if they did, as it's more taboo than if they didn't and just sort of ended in a "Luke and Leia" type of platonic "Oops we're related!" relationship in the end, which to me seems like the far more American TV-maker route to go down.
It wouldn't be that refreshing. The big lad from The Chase is married to his cousin, so they've been beaten to that angle by a teatime quiz show.
An original TV writer would never write the Cersei/Jaime thing either, which explains why America is crap.
Never thought I'd hear incest described as 'refreshing'.
Well you all know what I mean. But whichever route they take it'll be seen as the "safe way out".
If they fuck, then ah fuck it, they're only distant relatives after all, the writers aren't bold enough.
If they don't, and one of them (Jon) dies, the ah fuck it, the writers didn't dare do incest porn, they aren't bold enough.
They are not distant relatives.
He's her nephew, right? I suppose neither of them know it.
Just watched Ep 6.
Why couldn't they just dragon the fuck out of the main 5 geezers?
I know incest can make a family tree complex but...
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