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Thread: The Uni Thread

  1. #301
    Senior Member Spoonsky's Avatar
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    I was gonna say, if I'm going to "accept who I am" surely I should be putting on a scarf and moving to Quebec. Not everyone from Utah is provincial.

  2. #302
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    I've just watched The Internet's Own Boy about Aaron Swartz and his downloading of scientific journals from JSTOR, given that all of these scientific journals are not open to public access.

    Why is this the case? I guess the writer sells their work to a publisher (to earn money to live/for future research) and that they publisher simply owns the work and attempts to make profit from the research - is this the case?

    Would it be beneficial to scientific/medical research in general if all of these journals were completely open source?

  3. #303
    Romulus Augustulus ItalAussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Arne View Post
    I've just watched The Internet's Own Boy about Aaron Swartz and his downloading of scientific journals from JSTOR, given that all of these scientific journals are not open to public access.

    Why is this the case? I guess the writer sells their work to a publisher (to earn money to live/for future research) and that they publisher simply owns the work and attempts to make profit from the research - is this the case?

    Would it be beneficial to scientific/medical research in general if all of these journals were completely open source?
    Academic publishing is a massive racket, and the companies defend their profit margins fiercely:

    In an article that many of you will now have seen, Heather Morrison demonstrated the enormous profits of STM (Scientific, Technical and Medical) scholarly publishers. The figures are taken from her in-progress dissertation which in turn cites an article in The Economist. It all checks out. I emphasise this because I found the figures so hard to believe. Here they are again: profits as a percentage of revenue for commercial STM publishers in 2010 or early 2011:

    Elsevier: £724m on revenue of £2b — 36%
    Springer‘s Science+Business Media: £294m on revenue of £866m — 33.9%
    John Wiley & Sons: $106m on revenue of $253m — 42%
    Academic division of Informa plc: £47m on revenue of £145m — 32.4%
    And the crazy thing is, academics do the writing, they do the reviewing, and they do the editing. All for free (in some cases, even paying page fees to have their articles published). The companies basically just typeset the things and sell them at massive profits, getting the copyright to boot. And then they bundle together subscription packages so that if you want something important like, say, Nonlinearity, you need to get expensive subscriptions to Goat Intestinal Quarterly.

    There have been some steps take to rectify it, with open source journals like PLOS ONE starting to obtain decent reputations, but it's just a massively entrenched system. No academic is willing to kick their career to the curb by not posting their best work in prestigious journals, and so the cycle continues. There's just too much inertia to the current arrangement.

  4. #304
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    Thanks, @ItalAussie

    So, why are academics so quick to give their work over to these publishers? There must be other ways to get your work out there, especially online? Or academics could pool together to create their own non-profit publishing arm?

  5. #305
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    It always used to amaze me how expensive academic literature was at university. I could buy the complete works of any of the most prolific fiction writers of the day for less than the price of a couple of political science textbooks. I know someone has to pay or the research wouldn't happen, but still.

  6. #306
    Romulus Augustulus ItalAussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Arne View Post
    Thanks, @ItalAussie

    So, why are academics so quick to give their work over to these publishers? There must be other ways to get your work out there, especially online? Or academics could pool together to create their own non-profit publishing arm?
    Because one of the most important metrics of success as an academic is the calibre of journal in which you publish your material. Better journals are more widely read, and ensure that your work is read by the widest possible audience. If you don't publish in the most prestigious journals available to you, you're hamstringing your own career. It's great to have principles, but it's even greater to have a job.

    A lot of academics have gotten quite angry about this recently, and there was a boycott a few years ago where a number of top (, top, top) academics boycotted Elsevier journals. But even they said that they couldn't recommend this course of action to early career academics, because they just had too much to lose. The movement gained a bit of traction, and a number of journals started to include open source options.

    The other thing that is making this less unacceptable is that most journals will let you put preprints on a public paper repository known as the ArXiv. This means that even if the article is behind a paywall, there will likely be a free version accessible. I doubt the journals love the idea, but if they tried to stop that, the pitchforks would really come out.

  7. #307
    Romulus Augustulus ItalAussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd View Post
    It always used to amaze me how expensive academic literature was at university. I could buy the complete works of any of the most prolific fiction writers of the day for less than the price of a couple of political science textbooks. I know someone has to pay or the research wouldn't happen, but still.
    Textbooks are a very different, and equally crazy but for different reasons, kettle of fish. The real reason that textbooks are so high is lack of demand compared to proper books.

  8. #308
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    On the subject of journal prices, I read about this women yesterday: http://www.sciencealert.com/this-wom...pen-up-science

    A researcher in Russia has made more than 48 million journal articles - almost ever single peer-reviewed paper every published - freely available online. And she's now refusing to shut the site down, despite a court injunction and a lawsuit from Elsevier, one of the world's biggest publishers.

  9. #309
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    That's what Aaron Swartz was basically accused/charged to be planning to do.

  10. #310
    Senior Member randomlegend's Avatar
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  11. #311
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Arne View Post
    Thanks, [MENTION=129]So, why are academics so quick to give their work over to these publishers?
    Because they are a bunch of pushovers and idiots.

  12. #312
    Senior Member Boydy's Avatar
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    I had an interview at an investment trust a while ago (didn't get it lol) and they had an investment strategy of holding stock in about 30 companies for the long term. They weren't arsed about temporary market fluctuations at all. Elsevier was one of their top holdings.

  13. #313
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    I got my peer review(!) report back from the publisher today, and the reviewer said publish it as it stands by all means, but it would be better if it made more of an attempt to be a biography of Duncan Sandys rather than just a book about his approach to nuclear policy-making. Was there a particular part of a manuscript titled Duncan Sandys and British Nuclear Policy-Making that left my intentions unclear?

  14. #314
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    Probably the bit where you left out ': *wanky metaphor*'.

  15. #315
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Hard to turn that into a mini-series.

  16. #316
    Senior Member randomlegend's Avatar
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    We had a lecture yesterday on non-accidental injury.

    Fucking hell it was harrowing.

  17. #317
    Senior Member Boydy's Avatar
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    What's that, self harm?

  18. #318
    Senior Member randomlegend's Avatar
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    Child abuse, basically.

    I'm on paedIATRICS at the moment.

  19. #319
    Senior Member Boydy's Avatar
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    Oh.

  20. #320
    Senior Member Lee's Avatar
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    It's a little known fact that the day you become a paediatric consultant you also turn into a massive cunt. Gastroenterologists, gerontologists and cardiologists are mostly nice. Respiratory doctors are evil fucks.

  21. #321
    Senior Member randomlegend's Avatar
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    The paediatricians at the N and N are the nicest bunch of consultants and regs I have come across on any specialty by some distance.

  22. #322
    Senior Member Lee's Avatar
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    They call you a wanker behind your back, I guarantee it.

  23. #323
    Senior Member randomlegend's Avatar
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    Nah, they are genuinely enthusiastic about what they do, which makes the teaching great. First module I've really loved in ages.

  24. #324
    Senior Member randomlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boydy View Post
    Oh.
    But yeah, some of the shit people do is just beyond belief.

  25. #325
    Senior Member Spoonsky's Avatar
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    @mokbull I didn't get into Stanford.

    Because I'm not a nerd.

  26. #326
    Senior Member mugbull's Avatar
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    Truuu, so where do you think you're gonna be going? Have you gotten all decision back?

  27. #327
    Senior Member Spoonsky's Avatar
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    McGill seems the most likely at this point. Just waiting on the Ivies and Reed I think.

    Also I'd like to hear your thoughts on UC Santa Cruz and Occidental (because, y'know, same state).

  28. #328
    Senior Member mugbull's Avatar
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    It depends, what do you want to study?

  29. #329
    Senior Member Spoonsky's Avatar
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    Philosophy probably, or English. Minor in Art History perhaps.

  30. #330
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Got the following email this morning, together with a text message and an automated call:

    A person WITH A WEAPON has been reported on the North Campus (700 Rosedale). GO TO a place that you feel safe and remain there until further notice. For additional updates go to emergency.wustl.edu
    Some alarms were blaring earlier too.


  31. #331
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    Toggle Spoiler


    I was given two options, but the other one had the text in a big yellow circle that looked like a clearance sale sticker. Now I just need the English Speaking Union to admit/realise that they own Lord Cherwell's papers ('Nuffield College has them'; yes, but you own them) so I can have their permission to use them, and we're off.

  32. #332
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Dat cover.

  33. #333
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe View Post
    Also my advisor asked us to heckle an environmentalist that will be presenting at a nearby university in April.
    This is next week. We're having an EXECUTIVE MEETING tomorrow to figure out, in two hours, how to discredit discredit his twenty years work.

  34. #334
    Romulus Augustulus ItalAussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
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    I was given two options, but the other one had the text in a big yellow circle that looked like a clearance sale sticker. Now I just need the English Speaking Union to admit/realise that they own Lord Cherwell's papers ('Nuffield College has them'; yes, but you own them) so I can have their permission to use them, and we're off.
    Could you just "believe them" and ask Nuffield directly?

    Had a college dinner there once. The head butler was a colossal bag of dicks to us, and our college put in an official complaint.

  35. #335
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    I asked Nuffield College originally, and they referred me to the English Speaking Union. I'll ring them up today and have a whinge, but if they keep being useless I will probably end up submitting it, hiding behind the 'Every effort has been made to secure the permissions required...' disclaimer, and hoping that nobody bothers suing the publisher (why would they?).

    It's a right pain in the arse, and presumably set up to provide copyright solicitors with work (possibly answering the above). The Winston Churchill people charge you by the word if you use anything from his papers, even though 1) the government spent millions on them in the nineties; and 2) half of them are government documents that it owned anyway (which was why the family were originally told to get fucked when they tried cashing in on them in the seventies). Nobody else seems to be as pissy though. They just ask for a title and some context (which I took to mean 'Is it about paedophiles?') and let you do what you want.

  36. #336
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    And another one:

    A person WITH A WEAPON has been reported on the Medical School Campus. GO TO a place that you feel safe and remain there until further notice. For additional updates go to emergency.wustl.edu

  37. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoonsky View Post
    McGill seems the most likely at this point. Just waiting on the Ivies and Reed I think.

    Also I'd like to hear your thoughts on UC Santa Cruz and Occidental (because, y'know, same state).
    Not even close to being worth it. Go to Utah, save the money, go to some football games, join a mediocre fraternity, get laid a bit, maintain a high GPA and go somewhere exciting for grad school. You would get eaten alive by the pretentious wannabe French kids in Quebec.

  38. #338
    Senior Member Spoonsky's Avatar
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    It's a good job you didn't go into advertising. McGill's really cheap also, idk what kind of upper-middle-class white kid you think I am that I would save money instead of going there.

    I get into Reed also, hehe. It's between that and McGill and Occidental. But I'm definitely leaning towards McGill.

  39. #339
    Senior Member Spoonsky's Avatar
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    The other question is whether to do a gap year or not. Definitely tempted to move to Italy for a few months.

  40. #340
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    'Sorrentino lied, mom. '

  41. #341
    Senior Member Boydy's Avatar
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  42. #342
    Senior Member Spoonsky's Avatar
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    I have been to Italy before, you know.


  43. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoonsky View Post
    It's a good job you didn't go into advertising. McGill's really cheap also, idk what kind of upper-middle-class white kid you think I am that I would save money instead of going there.

    I get into Reed also, hehe. It's between that and McGill and Occidental. But I'm definitely leaning towards McGill.
    You didn't get into a school worth the money. That's the reality. Now you can be in denial about it and waste your families money/go into debt, or you can make an economically efficient choice for your future. Everyone I've ever met who went to Reed or Occidental emphasized that it was miserable, they regretted it, and that if they could choose again they would never go there. Everyone there is deep into drugs because there literally is nothing else to do. The girls are ugly, entitled, masculine and not interested in kids from Utah. Best case scenario you'll date a 3-4/10 Asian by Junior year.

    Four years from now you will see I was 100% right. You're blinded by your ego (going to Utah would be a 'failure') and your desire to 'see the world' or whatever nonsense Bernie supporters believe in.

  44. #344
    Senior Member randomlegend's Avatar
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    I wouldn't take advice from someone who can't even use apostrophes properly, Spoon.

  45. #345
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    He has a point. Boyd was in a similar situation.

  46. #346
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    At least Spoons will get a girlfriend.

  47. #347
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    Mert is a 3-4/10 Asian, so I'll defer to him there as well.

  48. #348
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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  49. #349
    Senior Member Boydy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    He has a point. Boyd was in a similar situation.
    Huh?

  50. #350
    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    When you came home rather than take the expensive London option.

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