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Thread: The Book Thread

  1. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    And the importance of various minutiae of different political systems throughout the unnecessarily complicated world he builds up.

    Actually the biggest issue isn't even that, it's that there is about a three-book slog in there (9-11 or something?) where he genuinely seems to forget that the characters we care most about are Rand, Perrin and Mat and insists on pissing about with his oedipal obsession with matriarchal figures that he's about a thousand times more interested in than most of his reason.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, but Sanderson's final three books of the trilogy were the best it had been since somewhere in Jordan's first five, I'd say.

    EDIT: And per the above, it's definitely worth powering through if you enjoy the series enough to get to the weaker ones. The final (I think it is) scene of the Gathering Storm is just wonderful.
    A man knows.

  2. #402
    Senior Member Alex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Andy Mahowry View Post
    All the female characters have proper cuntish tendencies too.

    Egwene needs to die in a fire.

    I do love a bit of Nynaeve though which isn't surprising.
    She's horrible. I don't think there's been a single instance in which she's spoken yet where she wasn't having a go at someone, usually in reference to how juvenile and/or stupid the male characters are, or something along those lines.

    I'm not really sure why she's decided to go along with them at this point, given that she doesn't know Moiraine, would presumably be wary of Lan (because he's just a big, scary bastard who doesn't like anyone) and appears to actively despise everyone else involved in the journey.

  3. #403
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    Lan is an absolute boss.

    I reckon you could easily cut the WoT books to either make it look like Jordan loves women more than anything in the world or fears and despises them. The Aes Sedai and their general refusal to listen to any sort of reason they haven't thought of themselves, for example. Egwene is particularly unpleasant though. I'm sure she has legions of fans of her for being such a strong, independent woman but she's just awful..

  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    I've noticed over the last couple of Malazan books that Erikson isbgrtting funnier without it compromising the overall tone. He's so good. Piss off, GRRRRR.
    Erikson writes comedy surprisingly well, as evidenced by Bugg and Tehol being one of my favourite relationships in the series. It brings a nice lightness to the book sometimes, where it can get a bit grim, and helps us give a shit about the characters. Rarely seems out of place too, which is probably due to his believable characters.

    I finished Dust of Dreams last week (9th Erikson instalment) and it was really. As usual, slow build up during the book with a few plotlines which I found a bit boring, but some absolutely terrific scenes and a strong ending:

    Toggle Spoiler


    Onto Orb, Sceptre, Throne now, which is Esslemont's 4th instalment. It's okay so far but I'm not sure if I'd recommend people reading Malazan to read Esslemont's books too. 10 big books in the main series is already a lot of reading and Erikson's books are far superior to Esslemont's. The redeeming factor for Esslemont is that he gets to explore some cool stories and races, such as the Stormwall; Dancer and Kellanved's night of ascension; the Crimson Guard; and, in the one I'm reading now, the Seguleh. So probably only worth reading if you don't mind another 6/8 books on top of Erikson's 10.

  5. #405
    Better Than You Henry's Avatar
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    LOL at Haystacks Harold pretending to read.

  6. #406
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AyDee View Post
    Erikson writes comedy surprisingly well, as evidenced by Bugg and Tehol being one of my favourite relationships in the series. It brings a nice lightness to the book sometimes, where it can get a bit grim, and helps us give a shit about the characters. Rarely seems out of place too, which is probably due to his believable characters.
    Tehol and Bugg were absolutely superb. Iskaral Pust has been good throughout (especially when talking to Mogara) and in this one Telorast and Curdle.

    And many of the Bridgeburners were funny enough throughout anyway.

  7. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    LOL at Haystacks Harold pretending to read.
    Actually I read lots of books. It upset me a bit that you took the piss as you seem a good guy as opposed to GS who seems a cunt.

  8. #408
    Member Townsend's Avatar
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    Anyone tried to write a book?

    I'm thinking of giving it a bash as I have some ideas but I don't really know where to start. I suppose just practicing and doing it for fun would help.

  9. #409
    Bruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuno Reg's Avatar
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    Never a novel. Short stories, personally. I'd do a plot outline otherwise it'll be difficult to not fuck up somewhere along the way.

  10. #410
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    I've tried, it's bloody difficult. Practising and doing it for fun is a good start but there's also a lot of technique and discipline that needs to be learned before you can do it well.

    Short stories are a good place to start, too.

  11. #411
    Senior Member Spoonsky's Avatar
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    When I was 14 I wrote a 33,000 word 'novel'. Since then I've tried to write other ones but usually never got past 10,000 words. It's really hard.

    What happened to the one you were writing Jimmy? No, not 'I, Cristiano'.

  12. #412
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    It went the way of Fry's game, I imagine.

    I used to enjoy writing stories at school, but I have the same issue most people have. Good ideas, fuck all by way of execution.

    DS and GS could both knock out a decent book. Aimed at very different audiences, obvs.

  13. #413
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoonsky View Post
    When I was 14 I wrote a 33,000 word 'novel'. Since then I've tried to write other ones but usually never got past 10,000 words. It's really hard.

    What happened to the one you were writing Jimmy? No, not 'I, Cristiano'.
    I've got it sitting there 'finished' in the dark recesses of my hard drive but it's a complete mess, devoid of a proper structure or anything resembling a plot. I'll probably never click on it again. Still, it was fun to smash out the 100,000 words or whatever it was.

    I might have another go this winter at something different, having had a very steep learning curve with that one 18 months ago.

    The most difficult thing is that typically at about 25,000-40,000 words you will realise that everything is shit and wrong and you need to rework the entire thing from scratch, which needs time and willpower which I don't have.

  14. #414
    Better Than You Henry's Avatar
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    The Romanovs: 1613-1918 by Simon Sebag-Montefiore

    The epic quality of Russian history continues to fascinate me - the sheer vastness of the place and the staggering numbers associated with its many tumults. And while I'd read quite a lot about the 20th century and to a lesser extent the 19th, I was only very vaguely aware of the period preceding that. So a history of the dynasty that ruled the place seemed a good idea to get up to speed and having read this authors biography of Stalin previously I decided to go with it.
    I certainly learned a lot. The barbarism stands out. Peter the Great may have made great strides towards modernisation and been a military genius, but his appetite for torture - he tortured and (probably personally) murdered his own son - casts his status as a national icon in a fairly sinister light.
    The brideshows. The palace coups. The dashing Potemkin. The burning of Moscow. The freeing of the serfs. The stuttering attempts to modernise while refusing to budge on the principle of autocracy. The revolutions of the 20th century. Rasputin. The incompetence of Nicholas II. The grisly murder of the royal family by Bolshveik thugs. It's all suitably dramatic and puts modern-day Russia in a more rounded context. The character of the Russian people is different in many ways to that of western peoples. A man like Putin must know this stuff inside out.
    My major criticism is that there's a lot of focus on the personal lives of the Romanovs. Lengthy sections describe their love letters to each other, their sexual daliences and other salacious details. While some of this is probably necessary, there's too much and it probably detracts from the social and political programs that were going on. That said, this is the history of one family rather than of the state. The narrow understanding that this work gives me of the latter whets my appetite for more.

  15. #415
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    Malazan 6 (the Bonehunters) might be the best in the series so far (it'd be this or Memories of Ice.) About 100 pages to go and I think I'll sit and get them read today. It hasn't hit a duff note yet.

  16. #416
    Senior Member Bernanke's Avatar
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    Really enjoying Homo Deus right now. I guess it's the point of it, but it really feels like a very succinct description of where we are right now as a species.

  17. #417
    Isn't he banned? Baz's Avatar
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    Anyone read House Of Leaves? Managed to buy it for £2.81, after waiting a long time for it to be under £15.
    I'm a twit

  18. #418
    Better Than You Henry's Avatar
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    Brave New World by Audlous Huxley

    In the future, the nanny state has gone into overdrive and abolished all pain and discomfort through the use of eugenics, drugs, brainwashing and consumerism. Unfortunately this has also meant the abolition of family, love, art and much else of value. Bernard Marx (upon whom some mistakes have been made) begins to question the state of things.
    It's frequently mentioned as a classic of dystopian fiction alongside the likes of Nineteen Eighty Four. I didn't find it to be quite as good as all that. It's a little heavy-handed at times with several anachronisms (Henry Ford is an object of worship for some reason) and is as much a satire of the kind of utopian fiction doing the rounds in the early 20th century as anything else. But the writing is frequently gorgeous, helped by the allusions to Shakespeare and there is a lot that is thought provoking about the nature of suffering and struggle.

  19. #419
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    I couldn't get on with how it was written, in general. I thought the explanation of the society at large and especially the Shakespearean stuff was bloody great though.

  20. #420
    Better Than You Henry's Avatar
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    Adults in the Room by Yanis Varoufakis

    Varoufakis was the Greek finance minister for 6 months in 2015 following the election of the left-wing Syriza party to office with a pledge to escape from the disgraceful austerity programs and "debt bondage" imposed on his country by the EU and IMF. Observers will know that after fraught negotiations Syriza capitulated and Varoufakis resigned. This is his memoir of the period.
    And it's terrifying. The troika of institutions refused to negotiate, wrapped the Greeks up in bureaucracy, threatened, blackmailed, u-turned and lied. At various points they even admitted that the programs that they were imposing were unworkable but that they were unable to lose face by changing course.
    Wolfgang Schable (the German finance minister) is identified as the chief villain. His endgame is to effectively control the budgets of all Eurozone countries from Berlin - he wants to "take the troika to Paris". To do this Greece must be made an example of. His boss Angela Merkel restrains him somewhat and wants Greece kept in the Eurozone but has little care for their well-being.
    Others, particularly the odious Jeroem Dijsselbloem (president of the extra-legal Eurogroup) serve as lackeys for Schauble. The French are spineless and say one thing in private, another in public (though Emmanuel Macron is one of few cast in a good light so his subsequent tenure should be interesting).

    Syriza themselves are unable to hold together in the face of the onslaught, with leader Alexis Tsipras gradually resiling from his promise to leave the Euro should he be backed into a corner. His actions following an eventual referendum on the proposed offer - which he wins despite hoping that he will lose - cannot be seen as other than a cowardly betrayal.
    The Greeks are also hamstrung by their own central bank being against them, and by factionalism within their government.

    Varoufakis has many scores to settle both with his own colleagues and the Europeans. His accounts of meetings are of course open to challenge by them.
    It has also been suggested that Varoufakis has an outsized ego and that comes across here at various points, but I'd argue that a milder character could not have endured the intense pressure he was subjected to.

    It's never less than immensely readable, which is impressive given the plethora of economic statistics. All in all, this is a devastating exposure of the rotten state of the European Union. The personalities portrayed in it are likely to be furious at how candid Varoufakis has been.

  21. #421
    heavy like led Dark Soldier's Avatar
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    Grabbed Ready Player One for the Kindle. Deleted Ready Player One roughly 15% in.

    Quite possible the worst piece of writing/art/anything to ever fucking exist.

  22. #422
    Better Than You Henry's Avatar
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    Nomad by Alan Partridge

    A follow-up of sorts to the fictional autobiography of the fictional radio DJ released a few years back, this is ostensibly an account of a walking tour of Britain that Partridge has undertaken to honour his late father. In reality it's a desperate attempt to restart his stalled career and to get back on TV and takes many tangents into Alan's various preoccupations. Partridge is a frustrated, conceited narcisicst with closeted homosexual urges. He harbours delusions of celebrity and good taste but is in reality a regional nobody viewed with contempt by his colleagues.
    It's probably one that is suited best to existing fans of Partridge, filled as it is with in-jokes and references to his previous appearances across various media. As a fan myself I found it frequently hilarious, at its best moments illuminating something of the soullessness of modern society - Partridge's Britain is one of corporate chain stores, industrial parks and crippling alienation.

  23. #423
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    I'm in the last third or quarter of the second Kingkiller book and the protagonist is still a bit of an annoying twat. Given the structure of it it's entirely possible that this will either be justified or that he'll have had some sort of comeuppance for it to make me feel better but blimey, what a tool.

  24. #424
    Senior Member Alex's Avatar
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    He is a very unlikeable character, proper smug little bastard.

    Have you read past the whole Felurian bit yet Ian? I can't remember how far into the book that occurs, but I think you probably will have done. What a load of shite that was.

  25. #425
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    Yes, I've just got past that bit.

    Toggle Spoiler

  26. #426
    Senior Member Alex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Yes, I've just got past that bit.

    Toggle Spoiler
    Toggle Spoiler


    The second book is really good though. I'm not sure when the third one is due. Soon, I hope. It's meant to be the last I think. Although unless it's about five thousand pages long I find that hard to believe. There seems to be so much more still to cover.

    I'm still on with The Eye of the World myself, and still finding it a bit of a slog if I'm totally honest. When it picks up it's great, but it just seems to drag for long periods of time between shit happening.

  27. #427
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    I was going to ask where you're up to in it but I think it's about fifteen years since I read the first one so I probably remember naff all about it. It's definitely a peaks-and-troughs sort of a series though, even on a chapter-by-chapter basis. That Felurian bit aside the Kingkiller ones, for example, are at last consistently entertaining.

    Have you read anything by Joe Abercrombie?

  28. #428
    Senior Member Alex's Avatar
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    It's a bit confusing to explain exactly where I'm at because it splinters of into various different stories, but:

    Toggle Spoiler
    No, I haven't read anything by that bloke. I've not heard of him before to be honest. Good?

  29. #429
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    I read his stuff on the recommendation of Lofty and Townsend. He's really good.

    The ones I've read are the Shattered Sea trilogy which are aimed at young adults and while they're easy reading they're good and you'd probably breeze through them. Then I read The First Law trilogy, which are excellent. The main characters in it are superb and if you're into your fantasy stuff you should definitely give them a bash.

  30. #430
    Senior Member Alex's Avatar
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    Thanks, I'll have a look into it. I do plan to move on the the second book with The Wheel of Time, but something else in-between might not be a bad shout.

  31. #431
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    I started a re-read of the Wheel of Time not long ago, but I've not made much progress yet. Things are definitely sinking in much better the second time round, but just knowing the sheer amount of material I have left makes it a bit of a slog already.

    I finished The Exorcist last night. It's really made me feel a little bit off. Not sick or anything, just...off. Great book though.

  32. #432
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    Dangerous, by Milo Yiannapopodopoulos

    I agreed with his stance on the victimising self-pity politics that we see so much nowadays and the danger behind the tendency for people to shut down a dialogue rather than engage. I disagreed with almost everything else though. Which is fair enough, but he generally comes across as a bit of a twat.

  33. #433
    Better Than You Henry's Avatar
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    Pavement by Richard Butchins

    This was a fairly short one - set somewhere in the near future, a disabled and impoverished Londoner who has become alienated by society to the extent that he wonders if he's invisible to those around him recounts in the first person the process of his becoming a serial killer. Drawing heavily from the likes of Crime and Punishment and from American Psycho, it nonetheless gives its own twist by connecting the activities of the anti-hero to the growing inequality and atomisation of our culture. His angry rationalisations and varying mental stability lend things a realistic tone - even if it isn't as disturbing as it would like as often as it would like. If it weren't for a series of cryptic dream sequences breaking the flow between the chapters, this would have been an impressive debut from the writer.

  34. #434
    Custom User Title phonics's Avatar
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    Anyone heard anything about the new His Dark Materials book from Pullman?

    I really enjoyed the series as a teen but not sure how it'll play 15 years later. I also can't be arsed to re-read all 3 books and have forgot about 90% of what happened. There was a knife that cut between dimensions, there was a polar bear with a helmet that fought things and the stand-in for the Catholic Church was evil, that's about all I've got. Oh, everyone had a pet animal that they were trying to seperate from the person for some reason? Something to do with the soul and putting it into creating clean energy?

    Any reviews about?

  35. #435
    More successful than most Magic's Avatar
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    Currently ripping my way through Sleepwalkers. What a tremendous book, it really is mental trying to decipher all the shit that led up to WWI, especially when you have direct contradictions between private memoirs/letters and public facing opinions in the big players (and even the little players). It is very impossible to do such a thing without years passing and things being revealed, so I guess when WWIII happens nobody will see it coming. The only people who see these things coming are the lunatics that are hell bent on war anyway.

  36. #436
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    Awkward: The Science of Why We're Socially Awkward and Why That's Awesome

    It's alright. The science is really interesting but there are parts of it that are like a self-help book for awkward people, which is a cool idea not an interesting read for anyone else.

  37. #437
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    I'm on Stiletto, the follow up to The Rook. It's good but it feels very middle-book-y and just doesn't have quite the same feel as the first, with Myfanwy not being the primary character.

    Quote Originally Posted by nsd View Post
    I started a re-read of the Wheel of Time not long ago, but I've not made much progress yet. Things are definitely sinking in much better the second time round, but just knowing the sheer amount of material I have left makes it a bit of a slog .
    I found all my WOT books while doing a clearout and was trying to muster up the enthusiasm for a re-read but I don't think I can. My problem is that if I start i suspect I'll end up trudging through the massive slog in the middle.

    Might just do the Sanderson ones again.

  38. #438
    Senior Member Alex's Avatar
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    I've started the second WOT book (The Great Hunt) recently, it's alright. Quite a bit of weird shit got thrown in towards the end of the first one. It felt almost like a different book for the last hundred pages or so.

    I think this might have been mentioned in this thread before, but the author has a somewhat grating habit of repeating certain little actions over and over again in his writing. For example, Rand, Mat and Perrin are constantly licking their lips before they speak. All the fucking time. I honestly feel like it might have already happened a hundred times.

  39. #439
    Senior Member Mazuuurk's Avatar
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    @Alex & @Ian - if I thoroughly enjoyed the Kingkiller books partly because of the reasons you don't seem to (I really like the main character because he seems generally quite Badass, and because he's the focal point of the whole story*), - will I then enjoy the Malazan books?

    I'm looking for some (concluded!) fantasy epic series to read, but I'm a little sceptical to the Malazan books because from what I read about them they are fairly complex and there isn't much of an overarching story going across the books, and no real main characters?







    *though I'll partly agree to the Felurian bit in that that was a bit stupid and kind of felt like a reflection of the authors wishes of how his way with women would be IRL for himself... Did you ever read "The Magician King"? It has a similar "geek who wrote a book" vibe about it but much much worse.

  40. #440
    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazuuurk View Post
    @Alex & @Ian - if I thoroughly enjoyed the Kingkiller books partly because of the reasons you don't seem to (I really like the main character because he seems generally quite Badass, and because he's the focal point of the whole story*), - will I then enjoy the Malazan books?

    I'm looking for some (concluded!) fantasy epic series to read, but I'm a little sceptical to the Malazan books because from what I read about them they are fairly complex and there isn't much of an overarching story going across the books, and no real main characters?







    *though I'll partly agree to the Felurian bit in that that was a bit stupid and kind of felt like a reflection of the authors wishes of how his way with women would be IRL for himself... Did you ever read "The Magician King"? It has a similar "geek who wrote a book" vibe about it but much much worse.
    There are a lot of subplots but an overall arc for the series does become apparent as you go on, and after the first few a lot of the characters are recurring.

    They're probably the best fantasy books I've read so I would absolutely recommend at least trying the first and taking it from there.

  41. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    I've started the second WOT book (The Great Hunt) recently, it's alright. Quite a bit of weird shit got thrown in towards the end of the first one. It felt almost like a different book for the last hundred pages or so.
    I think the first book was originally just going to be a standalone thing but obviously it transformed into a whole saga, so it can feel kind of disjointed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    I think this might have been mentioned in this thread before, but the author has a somewhat grating habit of repeating certain little actions over and over again in his writing. For example, Rand, Mat and Perrin are constantly licking their lips before they speak. All the fucking time. I honestly feel like it might have already happened a hundred times.
    So much sniffing and tugging of braids and folding arms under breasts. And I feel like I've never known so much about cuts and materials of dresses.

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    I've finally got round to starting the final book in the main Malazan series. Some of the foreshadowing is making me

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    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    Once I'm done with The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents I'll be getting onto Malazan 7.

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    Edit: Finished The Amazing Maurice in a few hours. Excellent stuff. Got The Last Hero to be cracking on with and then my next Diacworld after that will be another City Watch one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Once I'm done with The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents I'll be getting onto Malazan 7.

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    Edit: Finished The Amazing Maurice in a few hours. Excellent stuff. Got The Last Hero to be cracking on with and then my next Diacworld after that will be another City Watch one.
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    Webly Ian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AyDee View Post
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    Better Than You Henry's Avatar
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    A History of Christianity: The First Three Thousand Years by Diarmaid MacCulloch

    This is an ambitious undertaking, charting the entire history of Christianity from its dual origins in Jewish and Greek culture through to the present day. The author has a background in Anglicanism, and while one can always find quibbles (I had some with his assessment of the Enlightenment) on the whole it was remarkably balanced, maintaining a respect for Christianity while not shying away from its controversies. He keeps it engaging despite the subject matter necessarily veering into the obscure at times, and manages for the most part to avoid the danger of rushing past important events (the aforementioned origins are a bit of an exception). I certainly learned a lot - the towering influence of Augustine, the importance of the Chalcedonian settlement, the evolution of the papacy (and how late it achieved its eminent status), the recent conflicts within Catholicism and so forth. A really good overview for the non-specialist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
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    I'm just over halfway through the final book now and it's gripping, quite a lot of shite going down and loads of explanations for why stuff is/has happened. Verging on a bit too much exposition at times but everything is coming together very nicely.

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    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    Following getting into baseball I'm actually reading 'Moneyball' (previously impenetrable as I didn't understand the jargon).

    It's a great read as far as the insular world of baseball is concerned, but as if some charlatans are trying to apply this shit to football, and as if Billy Beane himself is now poncing around as some kind of demigod.

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    The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements

    Really interesting shit. People join mass movements to smother the feelings of personal inadequacy. I think it's not particularly new, although this bloke seems to be the dude that first talked about it. It's a great read.

    “Hatred is the most accessible and comprehensive of all the unifying agents. Mass movements can rise and spread without belief in a god, but never without a belief in a devil.”

    “The permanent misfits can find salvation only in a complete separation from the self; and they usually find it by losing themselves in the compact collectivity of a mass movement.”

    (I've recently got into Goodreads which has a 'common quotes' facility, which is quite cool)

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    Better Than You Henry's Avatar
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    The Moon is a Harsh Mistress by Robert A. Heinlein

    Widely regarded as one of the most prominent writers of science fiction in the 20th century, it's always been an oversight that I hadn't read Heinlein. Of his works I had been told that variously that this is the best and most accessible.
    It depicts a future uprising on the moon against its colonial earth-based authorities. Our main characters, with the aid of a sentient computer (the most interesting personality in the book) begin a conspiracy to overthrow these authorities and establish their own state.
    I didn't agree with the politics, which are a little idiosyncratic, based mostly on libertarian capitalism but which also seem to legitimise such things as rigging elections, terrorism, summary execution and so forth.
    That said, the prose is quirky and interesting, and the unfolding revolution is quite thrilling to observe. Heinlein's quality is such that one finds oneself rooting for the participants despite the above, and also despite a couple of plot contrivances that are used along the way.

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