UK General Election 2017 - 8 June

[John Arne]

Labour want to ban someone from the party for suggesting that people should be allowed to discuss whether the holocaust happened... not for denying that it happened... simply for suggesting that people should be allowed to discuss it.

Speaking at an event on free speech and Israel, Peled is reported to have said: “This is about free speech, the freedom to criticise and to discuss every issue, whether it’s the Holocaust: yes or no, Palestine, the liberation, the whole spectrum. There should be no limits on the discussion.”

It’s about the limits of tolerance: we don’t invite the Nazis and give them an hour to explain why they are right; we do not invite apartheid South Africa racists to explain why apartheid was good for the blacks, and in the same way we do not invite Zionists – it’s a very similar kind of thing.”

Why on earth would you be criticised, let alone expelled, for saying that? Is it me or are the ANTI-SEMITE!!!! brigade always a little too quick out of the blocks on this?

Let the idiots deny it... laugh in their face... then move on.

[Lewis]

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[Pepe]

Vim.

[phonics]

Probably should go instead of sending Amber Rudd next time then.

She also said The Conservative Party wasn't ready for a snap election... errr

[Shindig]

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Christ. Almost expected her to announce she was trans.

[GS]

Probably should go instead of sending Amber Rudd next time then.

She also said The Conservative Party wasn't ready for a snap election... errr

Resisting this sort of bollocks American import is one of the few things she did right. They're fucking awful. Why should the Prime Minister be getting equal billing with Leanne Wood, exactly?

[Pepe]

Who are you, anyway?

[GS]

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The Dream Team.

Six percent.

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[Shindig]

Surprised the exit lot have faith in Boris given how sheepish he looked when the vote came in.

[Lewis]

There is a massive pile of Stephen Crabb merchandise biding its time somewhere. Possibly next to an even larger pile of Dan Jarvis merchandise.

[Pepe]

Corbynmania has reached the US.

https://www.thenation.com/article/th...st-looks-like/

During the campaign, it was Corbyn who came across as principled, compassionate, and—on the crucial question of Britain’s relations with the European Union—pragmatic, while May and her party increasingly appeared to be in the grip of an ideological obsession compounded of xenophobic fear and chauvinist economic fantasy.

I know who I am voting for.

[GS]

Surprised the exit lot have faith in Boris given how sheepish he looked when the vote came in.

I'm sure Jimmy will be able to confirm this having read the Shipman book, but I believe that Boris and Gove were "jubilant" when they arrived at Leave HQ on the morning. They were, however, aware that Cameron was resigning and didn't want to look like they were celebrating it by the time they were addressing the media. This has given rise to Continuity Remain's conspiracy theory / line of attack that they "realised what they had done", as if they'd just committed a murder in a fit of passion and were staring aghast at the body. Complete horseshit, as these things invariably are. Still, they only have currency because people keep repeating it without questioning its veracity.

Boris would do because he'd see the thing through without giving in to Spreadsheet Phil and his gang of civil service guerrillas. That or Jacob Rees-Mogg. Three of the top four there are Leavers, and the other is basically ineligible so when May goes you're going to have a Leaver storming through on the back of a campaign of telling the Commission to go and fuck themselves and evicting foreigners.

[Lewis]

Toby Davidson would be the best person if she wasn't too busy saving the Union, so just give it to some ethnic/queer and watch Labour shit the communal bed when they start giving it to the old white tosser.

[GS]

Davidson's current role as "Hammer of the Nats" needs to be seen through. It's not practical that she could run anyway, so I don't know why they're bothering to include her in the polling.

[Shindig]

I'm sure Jimmy will be able to confirm this having read the Shipman book, but I believe that Boris and Gove were "jubilant" when they arrived at Leave HQ on the morning. They were, however, aware that Cameron was resigning and didn't want to look like they were celebrating it by the time they were addressing the media. This has given rise to Continuity Remain's conspiracy theory / line of attack that they "realised what they had done", as if they'd just committed a murder in a fit of passion and were staring aghast at the body. Complete horseshit, as these things invariably are. Still, they only have currency because people keep repeating it without questioning its veracity.

Boris would do because he'd see the thing through without giving in to Spreadsheet Phil and his gang of civil service guerrillas. That or Jacob Rees-Mogg. Three of the top four there are Leavers, and the other is basically ineligible so when May goes you're going to have a Leaver storming through on the back of a campaign of telling the Commission to go and fuck themselves and evicting foreigners.

Fair enough. I didn't give the resignation a second though. To be honest, he's the best personality they've got. My big problem with May is you forget she's there.

[McAvennie]

Resisting this sort of bollocks American import is one of the few things she did right. They're fucking awful. Why should the Prime Minister be getting equal billing with Leanne Wood, exactly?

Equal billing? It's not an evening of light jazz.

Having a couple of hours of actual debate between the parties would however be desirable over the slanging match that these things descend into, with the "who
won the debate" bollocks.

As for May not going, I think she'd have done better to say "actually I'm a bit crap at this kind of thing so I'll send Amber Rudd", rather than further exposing her as the out of touch elitist.

[John]

Theresa May coined the word 'guaransure' this morning.

[Lewis]

Who are the thirty-five per cent of cranks who want to nationalise the food supply, and who are the eight per cent that want to do that but think airlines are a step too far?

[phonics]

Nationalising travel agents is... weird?

[Lewis]

There is obviously a constant twenty per cent of nutters who want the government to run everything, but the actual takeaway from that - for all the right-wingers (and pretend right-wingers) freaking out on Twitter - is that the sectors subject to actual market forces are much more popular than shitty over-regulated rackets like gas and trains.

[GS]

I doubt 35% of people would want to nationalise the food supply if they understood what nationalisation actually entailed. It's probably an erroneous poll finding unless you explain the consequences of it; that being, that there would only be one shop to go to, you'd have to queue for five hours, and there would be nothing left worth buying by the time you got in.

[GS]

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I'm coming round to the idea that they should oust her and install Boris without a leadership contest. This sort of thing is such a waste of time.

[phonics]

You have to love when the Conservatives have the knife out for each other. It's much better copy.

[Lewis]

lol

[Jimmy Floyd]

Rees-Mogg is a don. The recent cultism around him is bollocks, but he is a don.

[randomlegend]

He's quite funny but I really find it hard to respect anyone who wants to deny women abortions when they've been raped.

[GS]

His position is entirely consistent with his Catholicism. At least he's not equivocating because it might appeal to divs.

[phonics]

So would be being pro molesting children but I'm not sure it's a position to take.

[randomlegend]

Oh right, it's religion so it's OK.

There's a difference believing something yourself and wanting to impose those beliefs and their consequences onto others who don't believe the same as you.

I believe people who are raped and want an abortion should be able to have it. I do not believe in forcing a Catholic to have an abortion because they got pregnant by rape, even if my personal opinion is that it would likely be best for all involved.

You can't argue that you want freedom to express your (religious) beliefs in one breath, and then try to impose those beliefs on others (and in doing so prevent them from acting in concordance with their own beliefs) in the next. Well I mean you can, but it makes you a massive cunt.

[Henry]

If his religion causes him to spout bollocks, then he should be sneered at as he would be if it was for any other reason. It's no excuse whatsoever. We don't live in the 16th century.

[Jimmy Floyd]

I think GS is saying, in his own special way, that at least he's honest about his real opinions, and not putting across fake views in order to win popularity. That's a separate question as to whether we all agree with various items on his opinions shopping list.

[randomlegend]

I think GS is saying, in his own special way, that at least he's honest about his real opinions, and not putting across fake views in order to win popularity. That's a separate question as to whether we all agree with various items on his opinions shopping list.

And it's fine for it to be his personal belief that it's wrong and if he ever gets raped and falls pregnant then I'd be the first defending his right not to have an abortion.

I just disagree with trying to impose your personal beliefs on others in a way which limits their freedom to act according to their own (within certain obvious boundaries).

[Jimmy Floyd]

Is he imposing them on anyone? I suppose you could argue that by being a professional politician and entering a legislative body he is, but that line of reasoning would severely limit the pool of people from whom to choose.

[phonics]

Is he imposing them on anyone? I suppose you could argue that by being a professional politician and entering a legislative body he is, but that line of reasoning would severely limit the pool of people from whom to choose.

The pool should be small and anyone who actually wants to be part of the pool as a career should be automatically refused.

[Lewis]

He merely wants to tell people what to do in the name of some 'Greater Good'. He just has different priorities from the people who want to deny fat people medical treatment or confiscate children from smokers on account of him being a bigot.

[John]

Abortion is one of the few issues where the 'imposing your opinion on others' thing is muddied. If you sincerely believe that life begins at conception then you'd have to be a fucking sociopath to not want abortions outlawed.

[Henry]

If I stood on the street corner raving about gays and abortion and there being too many blacks, I'm presumably being honest about my views but that would be a strange thing to focus on.

[GS]

JRM's position is entirely consistent with the teachings of the Catholic church:

2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception.

From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.71

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.72
My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.73

2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion.
This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable.
Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:

You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.74
God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves.
Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.75

2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense.
The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life.
"A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,"76 "by the very commission of the offense,"77 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.78
The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy.
Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.

Sources:
Cf. CDF, Donum vitae I, 1.
Jer 1:5; cf. ⇒ Job 10:8-12; ⇒ Ps 22:10-11.
Ps 139:15.
Didache 2, 2: SCh 248, 148; cf. Ep. Barnabae 19, 5: PG 2, 777; Ad
Diognetum 5, 6: PG 2, 1173; Tertullian, Apol. 9: PL 1, 319-320.
GS 51 # 3.

Regrettably, "RL" has completely misrepresented the issue. Issues on moral questions are put to free votes in the Commons. There is no prospect of a change in the law, because it would never pass the Commons. Even if he was PM, it would be impossible for him to whip the party to vote for a particular view. He wouldn't either, because precedent dictates that these votes are not party political issues. Ergo, he can believe abortion is a sin in all circumstances without there being any prospect of his doing anything to prevent people accessing it. It's not a legal question for JRM - it's a moral one. The legal position is separate. It's also settled, in this country at least, and won't be changing. It's a non-issue, and it's just another excuse for people to engage in faux outrage.

[randomlegend]

JRM's position is entirely consistent with the teachings of the Catholic church:

Nobody cares.

[GS]

Your ignorance isn't something to celebrate, you know.

[phonics]

Nobody had noticed the Catholic church was anti-abortion before you'd illuminated us.

[GS]

Yes, and "RL" wouldn't have went off on his hissy fit if he'd understood the issue properly. "Forcing people!" indeed.

[randomlegend]

Yeah mate, I'm the one having a hissy fit.

Keep showing me who's boss by putting my name in quotation marks.

[phonics]

Theresa Mays speech involved getting Lee Mason'd, having a coughing fit and then the stage started falling apart.

Also saying you're all about a free market and then your three main announcements are price cap/freezes. Lol. These people didn't vote for Ed Miliband so why her people think they'll vote Conservative if she pretends to be him is weird.

[Lewis]

You have to wonder whether these people even understand capitalism, let alone support it.

[Jimmy Floyd]

She'll get great play out of this, as Jeremy Corbyn heads unimpinged for the Sheffield Rally (or even the Nuremberg Rally) and she has gone so shit that she now occupies all the underdog territory formerly enjoyed by him.

[Jimmy Floyd]

You have to wonder whether these people even understand capitalism, let alone support it.

Philip Hammond, demand side Moses.

[phonics]

This is how it's ended



The imagery of there being a whacking great gap in the middle of it is bellissimo.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Could have been so much worse though, 'country' is playing with fire just for standing in front of the O, never mind letters falling off.

'Building a cunt that works for Ron' would have been good.

[Disco]

I mean it could be worse.