U.S. Presidential Election 2016 (Sponsored by Betty Croker's Hamburger Helper)

[Mazuuurk]

How long was he sent to prison again?

It's about exposing your complete lack of any authority on passing judgment on the "competence" of other governments / civil societies, much less with any tone of condescension.

You're still avoiding the topic: Trump is a complete clown.


We're talking about the US, so stop bringing Sweden into this, we can discuss that separately. But for the record - I can tell you I wholeheartedly agree the sentencing of that man was too short. There are some laws in Sweden limiting the lenght of people under 18 (he was - arguably - 17 at the time of the crime) to serve long prison sentences. There are both upsides and downsides to that, but in this case it's a downside.

In fact I think the punishments we dish out for rape (once convicted) are way to short in Sweden. That's often the case in many countries actually.

[Mazuuurk]

Maz, what do you think about this:

https://www.facebook.com/peter.springare

He seems to talk about the fact that immigrants are overrepresented in certain types of crime. That's fairly common knowledge, since they are often poorly intergated into society or on the lower tier of the economical spectrum. It's like saying crime is more common in Paris suburbs than in 16eme Arrondissement or you're more likely to get stabbed in southeast London than in Notting Hill. I see what point you're trying to make, but it doesn't stick.

[Bernanke]

In fact I think the punishments we dish out for rape (once convicted) are way to short in Sweden. That's often the case in many countries actually.

Agreed.

Regarding Springare, I think it fundamentally is a good thing that information about the background of people committing crimes is made public (even though this is "hearsay" rather than cold hard stats). Sweden has had issues in media reporting in this area, although not to the extent that fringe right groups/Mert would have you believe. The more problematic area is that BRÅ (Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention) hasn't publicized anything on the topic since 2005:

http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/kr...odda-och-brott

[Henry]

Lol you just got exposed. Better luck next time.

Maybe you can explain how I'm wrong rather than lolling.

[Magic]

He seems to talk about the fact that immigrants are overrepresented in certain types of crime. That's fairly common knowledge, since they are often poorly intergated into society or on the lower tier of the economical spectrum. It's like saying crime is more common in Paris suburbs than in 16eme Arrondissement or you're more likely to get stabbed in southeast London than in Notting Hill. I see what point you're trying to make, but it doesn't stick.

High immigration areas? Good point m8

[Mazuuurk]

High immigration areas? Good point m8

What are you on about?

[Magic]

His point is valid and it does stick. Whether you like it or not it is what it is.

[Mazuuurk]

Can you explain what that point is, then? Because if it is that high immigration areas have high crime, then that's not what I mean.
That's obvious, and everyone knows that.

[Bartholomert]

You're still avoiding the topic: Trump is a complete clown.


We're talking about the US, so stop bringing Sweden into this, we can discuss that separately. But for the record - I can tell you I wholeheartedly agree the sentencing of that man was too short. There are some laws in Sweden limiting the lenght of people under 18 (he was - arguably - 17 at the time of the crime) to serve long prison sentences. There are both upsides and downsides to that, but in this case it's a downside.

In fact I think the punishments we dish out for rape (once convicted) are way to short in Sweden. That's often the case in many countries actually.

How long? How long for raping and ruining a child's life? Do those advocating for open borders, such as yourself, do you sleep soundly at night knowing YOU are responsible for that animal coming into your country? Do you feel remorse?

Do you disagree with him being charged with a crime for exercising his right to free speech? Or do you not believe in basic civil rights either?

[Magic]

Can you explain what that point is, then? Because if it is that high immigration areas have high crime, then that's not what I mean.
That's obvious, and everyone knows that.

Didn't realise poor integration and being poor led to excusing rape etc.

[Bartholomert]

He seems to talk about the fact that immigrants are overrepresented in certain types of crime. That's fairly common knowledge, since they are often poorly intergated into society or on the lower tier of the economical spectrum. It's like saying crime is more common in Paris suburbs than in 16eme Arrondissement or you're more likely to get stabbed in southeast London than in Notting Hill. I see what point you're trying to make, but it doesn't stick.

Then why are you bringing criminals into your country? Is it because you want your children to be raped more? Is it because you don't want to provide an adequate education for the next generation? Is it so that your pensioners will not receive adequate care, after paying into their system for their entire lives?

You are an apologist for heinous crimes against your people because, 'well you know our vast unparalled social welfare program just wasn't providing an adequate support system for these people although they are living better than 99% of all human who have ever lived in human history who chose not to rape children"

What's the reason aside from treason and cowardice?

[Magic]

Mert you are training to be a lawyer, you have to present an opposing argument in a reasoned way.

[Bartholomert]

Mert you are training to be a lawyer, you have to present an opposing argument in a reasoned way.

He's a Leftist, if logic and reason were relevant he wouldn't be spouting the nonsense he currently is. It boils down to a "humanitarian" argument and a "commitment to diversity! and helping migrants in unfortunate situations!"

This is what "empathy" looks like. He needs to be made to see the victims and the actual costs of his selfish emotionally self-serving views.

[Bartholomert]

The child rapist, the 19-year old Syrian refugee who vaginally and anally raped a 13-year old child in her school bathroom, was sent to prison for 3 months for those of you who were wondering.

3 fucking months.

History will judge us.

[Pepe]

[Spikey M]

You'll find no red blooded WASPs like Mert raping children, that's for sure.

I mean, Mert has been clear about the high level of respect he has for young women and teenagers.

[Pepe]

Lol.

[Henry]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38914598

President Donald Trump's nominee for the Supreme Court has described the president's attacks on the judiciary as "disheartening and demoralising".

[Henry]

Also, did the Press Secretary of the fucking President of the United States of America just attack Nordstrom's in a press conference because they discontinued the President's daughter's fashion line?

[Bernanke]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN15O2A5

In his first call as president with Russian leader Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump denounced a treaty that caps U.S. and Russian deployment of nuclear warheads as a bad deal for the United States, according to two U.S. officials and one former U.S. official with knowledge of the call.

When Putin raised the possibility of extending the 2010 treaty, known as New START, Trump paused to ask his aides in an aside what the treaty was, these sources said.

Trump then told Putin the treaty was one of several bad deals negotiated by the Obama administration, saying that New START favored Russia. Trump also talked about his own popularity, the sources said.

The White House declined to comment. It referred Reuters to the official White House account issued after the Jan. 28 call, which did not mention the discussion about New START.

This guy. Imagine being a fly on the wall for diplomatic exchanges around the world right now.

"Did you talk to him?"
"Yeah, he called my mother a whore and my father a cuck."
"Ah, well, in our call he demanded that Australia pay back all the Australian Dollars we have, because 'dollars are American'..."

[Jimmy Floyd]

Also, did the Press Secretary of the fucking President of the United States of America just attack Nordstrom's in a press conference because they discontinued the President's daughter's fashion line?

Of all the problems people should have with Trump, this blending of the personal and presidential is number one.

[Bartholomert]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN15O2A5



This guy. Imagine being a fly on the wall for diplomatic exchanges around the world right now.

"Did you talk to him?"
"Yeah, he called my mother a whore and my father a cuck."
"Ah, well, in our call he demanded that Australia pay back all the Australian Dollars we have, because 'dollars are American'..."

So you're still believing the fake news which is "sources say"...

...why the hell would a Trump insider leak this sort of damaging information? It's ridiculous. Use your brain.

[Bartholomert]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38914598

This is a good thing. Shows he will be an independent justice, unswayed by the politics of the moment. I would not be surprised if the Republicans planned this to make his confirmation easier.

[John]

The child rapist, the 19-year old Syrian refugee who vaginally and anally raped a 13-year old child in her school bathroom, was sent to prison for 3 months for those of you who were wondering.

3 fucking months.

History will judge us.

The non-refugee who sexually assaulted my sister and five other girls when they were all under the age of sixteen got a year and served nine months. It's a problem with the judicial response to sex crimes, not the border policy for war refugees. His sentence is entirely irrelevant to the point you're trying to make.

[Magic]

He's a Leftist, if logic and reason were relevant he wouldn't be spouting the nonsense he currently is. It boils down to a "humanitarian" argument and a "commitment to diversity! and helping migrants in unfortunate situations!"

This is what "empathy" looks like. He needs to be made to see the victims and the actual costs of his selfish emotionally self-serving views.

Who is the victim? The young 'uns that have known nothing but war, violence, death?

[Bartholomert]

The non-refugee who sexually assaulted my sister and five other girls when they were all under the age of sixteen got a year and served nine months. It's a problem with the judicial response to sex crimes, not the border policy for war refugees. His sentence is entirely irrelevant to the point you're trying to make.

"Sexual assault" is not the same as forced anal and vaginal rape.

[John]

Six victims isn't the same as one victim. The point stands unchanged, while you stand in the long grass wanking.

[Bernanke]

Is there unforced rape?

[Mazuuurk]

@Mert I will take your continuous ignoring of the real statement here - that Trump is a fucking clown - as acquiescence. Glad you finally realize you are in awe of someone who is quite probably even more stupid than yourself. But then in your backward world, I guess that might make sense.


Now...

How long? How long for raping and ruining a child's life? Do those advocating for open borders, such as yourself, do you sleep soundly at night knowing YOU are responsible for that animal coming into your country? Do you feel remorse?

Do you disagree with him being charged with a crime for exercising his right to free speech? Or do you not believe in basic civil rights either?

First: How long? Hell if I know, I don't know much about Law. Isn't that your domain? I know the standard-ish penalty in Sweden is 1-3 years, usually it always seems to short. Personally I think it should be at least 10, probably more even still. The problems lie in the greyzones of proving it, of course, which is why I suspect the penalties have remained so "lenient" throughout the years.

Second:
How do you know my stance on border control? In fact - what do you even know of my political stances? Other than assumptions you make just because I'm Swedish. Can you explain to me how I'm personally in any way responsible for this 13-year old kid getting raped? Hmm?

Third:
I did some Googling, and by deduction of how you describe the nature of the rape, I can guess where the information you have read originally comes from - and I can tell you that isn't a very credible source (Aftonbladet & Expressen are fairly credible).

Then why are you bringing criminals into your country? Is it because you want your children to be raped more? Is it because you don't want to provide an adequate education for the next generation? Is it so that your pensioners will not receive adequate care, after paying into their system for their entire lives?

You are an apologist for heinous crimes against your people because, 'well you know our vast unparalled social welfare program just wasn't providing an adequate support system for these people although they are living better than 99% of all human who have ever lived in human history who chose not to rape children"

What's the reason aside from treason and cowardice?

Again, Mert, why are you talking as if I personally brought a bunch of immigrants hell-bent on raping and pillaging into Sweden? "OK lads, you're across the border, have at it, the nearest highschool is three miles that way". Yeah?

The truth is you know very little about me, and very little about my country (the latter is obvious). Having been to Stockholm on vacation once doesn't teach you everything there is about Sweden.

Also, can you explain what "My people" is? I don't really identify with any kind of "people", other than Swede and European.

He's a Leftist, if logic and reason were relevant he wouldn't be spouting the nonsense he currently is. It boils down to a "humanitarian" argument and a "commitment to diversity! and helping migrants in unfortunate situations!"

This is what "empathy" looks like. He needs to be made to see the victims and the actual costs of his selfish emotionally self-serving views.

I don't identify as a leftist, Mert. Over the course of my life, I've voted just about as much towards the right as towards the left. My thoughts on different topics tend to sway a lot on the traditional political spectrum depending on the topic - so I usually end up half left, half right and thus somewhere in the middle.

However, I do think it's a good thing to be Empathic and Humanitarian. I also think diversity is natural in a globalised world, and generally good. I'm not daft enough to think that anything comes without drawbacks or difficulties you have to deal with.

[Disco]

Guys can you take this to the Anal and Vaginal Rape Thread please.

[Mazuuurk]

Didn't realise poor integration and being poor led to excusing rape etc.

What? Hmm. You're misunderstanding me here. Of course there's no "excuse" for rape or any kind of crime. What I meant is that crime stems from mainly economical disadvantages, not from where in the world you are from. Misogony exists everywhere. And while certain cultures certainly are more prone to it, I reject the generalizations. Likewise, people who have been subjected to war (and quite possibly through that rape themselves btw) seem to me more likely to be involved in crime.

The problem is not receiving these people, the problem is receiving them without really having much of a plan or resources for how to help them get on their feet. Of course an individual can never blame a state or anyone else for a crime, but a state should try to minimize crime.

[Spikey M]

Guys can you take this to the Anal and Vaginal Rape Thread please.

Link?

[Mazuuurk]

"Sexual assault" is not the same as forced anal and vaginal rape.

No credible source in Swedish specifies the nature of the rape as anything other than "intercourse".

That doesn't really matter, it's still horrendous. I just want to point out that you're reading stuff that's quoting bad sources.

[Spikey M]

I can't help but fear that being unable to a) understand a simple point - and - b) Engage in an argument beyond repeating your opening statement ad infinitum may hinder a career in Law.

[Mazuuurk]

You would have thought, but it seems in the US that makes you president material.

[Magic]

I can't help but fear that being unable to a) understand a simple point - and - b) Engage in an argument beyond repeating your opening statement ad infinitum may hinder a career in Law.

What? Hmm. You're misunderstanding me here. Of course there's no "excuse" for rape or any kind of crime. What I meant is that crime stems from mainly economical disadvantages, not from where in the world you are from. Misogony exists everywhere. And while certain cultures certainly are more prone to it, I reject the generalizations. Likewise, people who have been subjected to war (and quite possibly through that rape themselves btw) seem to me more likely to be involved in crime.

The problem is not receiving these people, the problem is receiving them without really having much of a plan or resources for how to help them get on their feet. Of course an individual can never blame a state or anyone else for a crime, but a state should try to minimize crime.

As far as I'm aware i believe there is pretty good support for refugees. They don't just get left to their own devices.

[Mazuuurk]

As far as I'm aware i believe there is pretty good support for refugees. They don't just get left to their own devices.

Well to an extent, and up to the point where we would receive "standard" amounts of refugees. But what I think happened during that big "crisis" was we bit off more than we were prepared to chew. In the end we closed our borders.

At the same time, I suppose no one else would be prepared to receive "enough" refugees to help everyone. I'm not sure what the best way of handling it all is.

[Magic]

But didn't your country (state and citizens) beg them to come?

#refugeeswelcome

[Bartholomert]

What? Hmm. You're misunderstanding me here. Of course there's no "excuse" for rape or any kind of crime. What I meant is that crime stems from mainly economical disadvantages, not from where in the world you are from. Misogony exists everywhere. And while certain cultures certainly are more prone to it, I reject the generalizations. Likewise, people who have been subjected to war (and quite possibly through that rape themselves btw) seem to me more likely to be involved in crime.

The problem is not receiving these people, the problem is receiving them without really having much of a plan or resources for how to help them get on their feet. Of course an individual can never blame a state or anyone else for a crime, but a state should try to minimize crime.

Who integrated the East Asian immigrants in the US? Weird I don't remember a rape epidemic ever happening???

[Bartholomert]

@Mert I will take your continuous ignoring of the real statement here - that Trump is a fucking clown - as acquiescence. Glad you finally realize you are in awe of someone who is quite probably even more stupid than yourself. But then in your backward world, I guess that might make sense.


Now...



First: How long? Hell if I know, I don't know much about Law. Isn't that your domain? I know the standard-ish penalty in Sweden is 1-3 years, usually it always seems to short. Personally I think it should be at least 10, probably more even still. The problems lie in the greyzones of proving it, of course, which is why I suspect the penalties have remained so "lenient" throughout the years.

Second:
How do you know my stance on border control? In fact - what do you even know of my political stances? Other than assumptions you make just because I'm Swedish. Can you explain to me how I'm personally in any way responsible for this 13-year old kid getting raped? Hmm?

Third:
I did some Googling, and by deduction of how you describe the nature of the rape, I can guess where the information you have read originally comes from - and I can tell you that isn't a very credible source (Aftonbladet & Expressen are fairly credible).




Again, Mert, why are you talking as if I personally brought a bunch of immigrants hell-bent on raping and pillaging into Sweden? "OK lads, you're across the border, have at it, the nearest highschool is three miles that way". Yeah?

The truth is you know very little about me, and very little about my country (the latter is obvious). Having been to Stockholm on vacation once doesn't teach you everything there is about Sweden.

Also, can you explain what "My people" is? I don't really identify with any kind of "people", other than Swede and European.




I don't identify as a leftist, Mert. Over the course of my life, I've voted just about as much towards the right as towards the left. My thoughts on different topics tend to sway a lot on the traditional political spectrum depending on the topic - so I usually end up half left, half right and thus somewhere in the middle.

However, I do think it's a good thing to be Empathic and Humanitarian. I also think diversity is natural in a globalised world, and generally good. I'm not daft enough to think that anything comes without drawbacks or difficulties you have to deal with.

1. I'm glad your views on sentencing periods for rape of a minor is sane
2. You've voiced your apologist views on refugees and mass immigration many times. By lending support and credibility to these policies, you are complicit in the sexual crimes now being committed against Swedish women at unprecedented levels.
3. I've known plenty of Swedes, had very close Swedish friends, and spent months at a time in Sweden. I've visited on a number of occasions. Does it make me an expert, absolutely not. Do I have a vague idea of the sort of mentalities rampant right now among the educated / affluent male population in particular, yes.
4. Being Centrist in Sweden, is being a radical Leftist just about anywhere else.
5. You only care about being empathetic and humanitarian on a surface level; in this case, saying YES! to refugees and making excuses for their behavior (it's the Swedes who are to blame!! We aren't being nice enough!!). You don't care about being empathetic and humanitarian to the rape and violent crime victims. You are promoting evil. You need to recognize that. You are endangering your own children.

[Bartholomert]

No credible source in Swedish specifies the nature of the rape as anything other than "intercourse".

That doesn't really matter, it's still horrendous. I just want to point out that you're reading stuff that's quoting bad sources.

So the sources which promotes the liberal narrative above truth?

[Mazuuurk]

When have I ever condoned any kind of crime, whether rape or otherwise? "Excused" any such behaviour? Huh?

If you, as a nation, receive a whole bunch of war-scarred immigrants, you have to be prepared to handle that. It's a bit as if you decide you need to shut down a prison or a mental institution because you can't afford it any longer. How do you handle that? Oftentimes, not very well.

Does that mean you should let people die in their own countries instead? Probably not, no. There we disagree. Very sorry for "promoting evil".

Nothing is as binary as you make things out to be.

[Magic]

Please bear in mind that safe countries with similar values culturally were available at the time.

[Mazuuurk]

So the sources which promotes the liberal narrative above truth?

Wherever I've read about it it's been fairly professionally reported. I.e. no judgement or suppositions. Which is how journalism should be.

And yes, Expressen and Aftonbladet are both fairly credible sources. I also found an article on SVT.se which is a tad more credible. They all say the same thing.

I did find the less credible ones, like Avpixlat and a plethora of blogs. They all report about the same thing, essentially, but the latter are commenting on the particularity of certain things. That's not really relevant if you're just reporting factually about a crime. A crime is a crime, no matter who committed it and why.

[Mazuuurk]

Please bear in mind that safe countries with similar values culturally were available at the time.

They were?

[Magic]

They were?

Yes.

[Byron]

Of all the problems people should have with Trump, this blending of the personal and presidential is number one.

Now Kellyanne Conway (that's personal presidential aide Kellyanne Conway) has told Fox viewers to 'go buy Ivanka's stuff'

Even the Republicans are taken aback at the moment but it's nothing less than they deserve.

[Shindig]

That's dangerously close to conflicts of interest there.

[Bartholomert]

When have I ever condoned any kind of crime, whether rape or otherwise? "Excused" any such behaviour? Huh?

If you, as a nation, receive a whole bunch of war-scarred immigrants, you have to be prepared to handle that. It's a bit as if you decide you need to shut down a prison or a mental institution because you can't afford it any longer. How do you handle that? Oftentimes, not very well.

Does that mean you should let people die in their own countries instead? Probably not, no. There we disagree. Very sorry for "promoting evil".

Nothing is as binary as you make things out to be.

You would rather your own children and countrymen suffer than people in a far away country you have no jurisdiction over, who are responsible in part for the conflicts in their own nation, who are unwilling to fight for their own freedom, and take in these people knowing that you CAN NEVER ACTUALLY MAKE A MEANINGFUL DENT IN THE OVERALL SUFFERING, while brain draining the highest quality citizens who COULD actually make a difference in those countries in the future.

That. Is. Insanity. It is emotionally self-serving myopoic insanity.

[Pepe]

'Highest quality citizens.' I like that.