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  1. #51
    Administrator Kikó's Avatar
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  2. #52
    ram it up your shitpipe Giggles's Avatar
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    How many taxes and lithium batteries will it take to fix that one?

  3. #53
    I used to be funny.
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    I really, really would like some cool science and technology to come out of this.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggles View Post
    How many taxes and lithium batteries will it take to fix that one?
    All of them.

    It is not known what level of CO2 would trigger an AMOC collapse, he said. “So the only thing to do is keep emissions as low as possible. The likelihood of this extremely high-impact event happening increases with every gram of CO2 that we put into the atmosphere”.

  5. #55
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kikó View Post
    White Christmases

  6. #56
    Senior Member Queenslander's Avatar
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    Is this your normal wildfire season in Greece ATM?

    I'm starting to think we might be in for a brutal bushfire season.

  7. #57
    Administrator Kikó's Avatar
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    According to the news, it's been hotter and drier but also mixed in with fire fighter cuts in investment. Seems a solid choice.

  8. #58
    Senior Member Queenslander's Avatar
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    Sounds pretty Greek.


    I also saw Turkey on the news that isn't normal for them surely.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Boydy's Avatar
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    BBC News - Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58130705

    Great.

  10. #60
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    @Pepe we need some real talk son.

  11. #61
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    We'll sort it out somehow. We always do.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Floyd View Post
    We'll sort it out somehow. We always do.
    We've been here for about 200,000 years, just over 0.1% of the time the dinosaurs were around for. We're a fly on an elephant's arse in the grand scheme of things.

  13. #63
    Administrator Kikó's Avatar
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    I don't think we're going to do enough this time because there are enough people invested in the destruction of the planet for it to change.

    It's not all doom and gloom though, it'll be our kids who will have to eat each other.

  14. #64
    Senior Member Queenslander's Avatar
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    It won't change down here anytime soon.

  15. #65
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kikó View Post
    I don't think we're going to do enough this time because there are enough people invested in the destruction of the planet for it to change.
    And at some point there will be a tipping point at which those same interests shift towards the non-destruction of the planet. It might not be yet, but it'll happen.

  16. #66
    Administrator Kikó's Avatar
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    We're already past a number of tipping points. The reaction will be too slow as it inconveniences our consumerist society.

  17. #67
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    We won't "sort it" until shit is sufficiently bad and it'll be too late then. There's no appetite to do so in the countries that could make a big difference. Especially the BRIC nations.

    China have just discovered a brand new source of coal, they're building new Coal powerplants at something like one a month and they're planning to ramp that up.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kikó View Post
    We're already past a number of tipping points. The reaction will be too slow as it inconveniences our consumerist society.
    Hang on, am I mis-remembering when I was making this exact point and you were disagreeing? If I'm not, welcome aboard.

    If there is a solution to this it's one we're not currently employing. What we are currently employing is going to make nowhere near enough difference as none of us are prepared to sacrifice to the extent needed.

  19. #69
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    Easter Island is a brilliant example of what's happening to the overall planet now. They wanted shiny things so they chopped all of the tress down and made the place uninhabitable for humans.

    Some people disagree that's how it went down, but if they're wrong then that's all you need to look at to know why we will never change this. Musk, Bezos, Gates etc. need to get together to work out how you put back or take away all of the shit we do need/don't need in the environment or else we're fucked. Governments won't sort it as they can never see past the current election cycle and regular humans (like you and me) won't as we're selfish fucks.

  20. #70
    Senior Member niko_cee's Avatar
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    Problem for Musk, Bezos and Gates (et al) is the thing we don't need is them, so lol at the idea of them being the solution and the rest of us being too selfish.

  21. #71
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Exactly what I was going to say. Tesla atleast has the illusion of being green I guess (it really isn't), but the Billionaires now fucking about in Space are doing so purely because we keep buying their largely unnecessary products.

  22. #72
    Administrator Kikó's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikey M View Post
    We won't "sort it" until shit is sufficiently bad and it'll be too late then. There's no appetite to do so in the countries that could make a big difference. Especially the BRIC nations.

    China have just discovered a brand new source of coal, they're building new Coal powerplants at something like one a month and they're planning to ramp that up.
    Clean coal though innit (roflmaocopter)

    I do think China has the political structure to do the type of transformation required (and they have set bold target recently despite also then building coal plants).

    The biggest issue is for us to disconnect gdp with growth.

  23. #73
    Administrator Kikó's Avatar
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    If the billionaires paid taxes, we could actually invest more into green technologies and retrofitting houses so they stop leaking heat.

    edit: SwissRe's assessment:
    https://www.swissre.com/media/news-r...nge-risks.html

    World economy set to lose up to 18% GDP from climate change if no action taken, reveals Swiss Re Institute's stress-test analysis
    Article information and share options
    Published on:22 Apr 2021, Zurich
    Share
    New Climate Economics Index stress-tests how climate change will impact 48 countries, representing 90% of world economy, and ranks their overall climate resilience

    Expected global GDP impact by 2050 under different scenarios compared to a world without climate change:
    -18% if no mitigating actions are taken (3.2°C increase);
    -14% if some mitigating actions are taken (2.6°C increase);
    -11% if further mitigating actions are taken (2°C increase);
    -4% if Paris Agreement targets are met (below 2°C increase)

    Economies in Asia would be hardest hit, with China at risk of losing nearly 24% of its GDP in a severe scenario, while the world’s biggest economy, the US, stands to lose close to 10%, and Europe almost 11%
    Climate change poses the biggest long-term threat to the global economy. If no mitigating action is taken, global temperatures could rise by more than 3°C and the world economy could shrink by 18% in the next 30 years. But the impact can be lessened if decisive action is taken to meet the targets set in the Paris Agreement, Swiss Re Institute’s new Climate Economics Index shows. This will require more than what is pledged today; public and private sectors will play a crucial role in accelerating the transition to net zero.

    Swiss Re Institute has conducted a stress test to examine how 48 economies would be impacted by the ongoing effects of climate change under four different temperature increase scenarios. As global warming makes the impact of weather-related natural disasters more severe, it can lead to substantial income and productivity losses over time. For example, rising sea levels result in loss of land that could have otherwise been used productively and heat stress can lead to crop failures. Emerging economies in equatorial regions would be most affected by rising temperatures.

    Major economies could lose roughly 10% of GDP in 30 years
    In a severe scenario of a 3.2°C temperature increase, China stands to lose almost one quarter of its GDP (24%) by mid-century. The US, Canada and the UK would all see around a 10% loss. Europe would suffer slightly more (11%), while economies such as Finland or Switzerland are less exposed (6%) than, for example, France or Greece (13%).

    Thierry Léger, Group Chief Underwriting Officer and Chairman of Swiss Re Institute, said: “Climate risk affects every society, every company and every individual. By 2050, the world population will grow to almost 10 billion people, especially in regions most impacted by climate change. So, we must act now to mitigate the risks and to reach net-zero targets. Equally, as our recent biodiversity index shows, nature and ecosystem services provide huge economic benefits but are under intense threat. That’s why climate change and biodiversity loss are twin challenges that we need to tackle as a global community to maintain a healthy economy and a sustainable future.“

    Climate Economics Index ranks countries’ resilience to climate change
    Along with evaluating each country’s expected economic impact from climate risks, Swiss Re Institute also ranked each country on its vulnerability to extreme dry and wet weather conditions. In addition, it looked at the country’s capacity to cope with the effects of climate change. Put together, these findings generate a ranking of countries’ resilience to the impacts of climate change.

    The ranking displays a similar view to the GDP impact analysis: Countries most negatively impacted are often the ones with fewest resources to adapt to and mitigate the effects of rising global temperatures. The most vulnerable countries in this context are Malaysia, Thailand, India, the Philippines and Indonesia. Advanced economies in the northern hemisphere are the least vulnerable, including the US, Canada, Switzerland and Germany.

    Public and private sectors play a crucial role in accelerating climate action
    Given the consequences highlighted in Swiss Re Institute’s analysis, the need for action is indisputable. Coordinated measures by the world’s largest carbon emitters are crucial to meet climate targets. The public and private sectors can facilitate and accelerate the transition, particularly regarding sustainable infrastructure investments that are vital to remain below a 2°C temperature increase. Given the long-term horizon of their liabilities and long-term capital to commit, institutional investors such as pension funds or insurance companies are also ideally positioned to play a strong role.

    Jérôme Haegeli, Swiss Re’s Group Chief Economist, said: “Climate change is a systemic risk and can only be addressed globally. So far, too little is being done. Transparency and disclosure of embedded net-zero efforts by governments and the private sector alike are crucial. Only if public and private sectors pull together will the transition to a low-carbon economy be possible. Global cooperation to facilitate financial flows to vulnerable economies is essential. We have an opportunity to correct the course now and construct a world that will be greener, more sustainable and more resilient.

    Our analysis shows the benefit of investing in a net-zero economy. For example, adding just 10% to the USD 6.3 trillion of annual global infrastructure investments would limit the average temperature increase to below 2°C. This is just a fraction of the loss in global GDP that we face if we don’t take appropriate action.“

    Mitigating climate change requires a whole menu of measures. More carbon- pricing policies combined with incentives for nature-based and carbon-offsetting solutions are needed, as well as international convergence on taxonomy for green and sustainable investments. As part of financial reporting, institutions should regularly disclose how they plan to achieve the Paris Agreement and net-zero emission targets. Re/insurers also play a role in providing risk transfer capacity, risk knowledge and long-term investment, using their understanding of risk to help households, companies and societies mitigate and adapt to climate change.

    Climate Economics Index: mid-of-century
    The Climate Economics Index looks at which economies would be hardest hit, most exposed and best positioned to adapt to climate risk. It ranks countries based on: Expected economic impact from "chronic" climate risks linked to gradual temperature rises; the degree to which it is vulnerable to extreme weather events and severe hot/wet conditions; and a country's current adaptive capacity.

  24. #74
    The Artist Formerly Known as Taz
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    If you cunts stopped buying air fryers and city break flights we wouldn't need to rely on a small band of men to survive.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by niko_cee View Post
    Problem for Musk, Bezos and Gates (et al) is the thing we don't need is them, so lol at the idea of them being the solution and the rest of us being too selfish.
    Yes, but get rid of them and someone else fills the void they leave and we're still in the same position. They are of course selfish too, but solving this problem would appeal to their God like complexes so they should really get on it.

    NOTHING else is going to work. The fuzzy thinking around this really is outstanding. People are still fucking about thinking if we all do less of x and y we'll be able to do it. That won't happen and it's probably not enough anyway - we need a Bruce Willis drilling style nuclear solution here. Boffins, over to you.

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kikó View Post
    If the billionaires paid taxes, we could actually invest more into green technologies and retrofitting houses so they stop leaking heat.
    And this is the sort of shit I'm talking about, long term it won't scratch the surface.

    Essentially we need to stop having (so many) children and ban air travel and that's only a starter for 10 that no one is going to do, so the solution has to be elsewhere.

  27. #77
    Senior Member niko_cee's Avatar
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    I'm sure the boffins are working on it.

    Next time I bump into this chap I'll ask him how it's going.

  28. #78
    Administrator Kikó's Avatar
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    The Drawdown Review has some suggestions which doesn't involve mental Bruce Willis type solutions. https://drawdown.org/sites/default/f...93Download.pdf

  29. #79
    Administrator Kikó's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yevrah View Post
    And this is the sort of shit I'm talking about, long term it won't scratch the surface.

    Essentially we need to stop having (so many) children and ban air travel and that's only a starter for 10 that no one is going to do, so the solution has to be elsewhere.
    Buildings are a huge emission generator so yes it will scratch the surface (from that report ~6% of all emissions).

  30. #80
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Any solution needs to be world wide in application and will be absolutely fucking horrific. Limited flight is the big one. No holidays (), eat local food, start fixing things instead of buying replacements, etc. I feel sick just thinking about it.

  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kikó View Post
    The Drawdown Review has some suggestions which doesn't involve mental Bruce Willis type solutions. https://drawdown.org/sites/default/f...93Download.pdf
    A one hundred and four page PDF document? Yep, regular Joes are going to buy into that. Please tell me they have a tldr somewhere?

    And 'Forest Protection' is one of their solutions. I mean, sweet Jesus.

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kikó View Post
    Buildings are a huge emission generator so yes it will scratch the surface (from that report ~6% of all emissions).
    We need to reduce them by 60%. Sixty. It is not going to happen.

  33. #83
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    They had "building machines that 'suck up' Carbon Dioxide" as a potential solution on the news earlier. Building machines is the problem dickheads, it's not the solution.

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kikó View Post
    We're already past a number of tipping points. The reaction will be too slow as it inconveniences our consumerist society.
    You had it right with this Kik's. I can only assume you're alarmed because you've realised you inadvertently agree with me. Come here. It's ok now.

  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikey M View Post
    They had "building machines that 'such up' Carbon Dioxide" as a potential solution on the news earlier. Building machines is the problem dickheads, it's not the solution.
    But we're not going to stop building other machines, let alone get rid of the existing ones, are we? In which case that sort of thinking sounds bob on to me. I know nothing of whether that actually works, I'm Yevrah etc. but that's the type of road we need to go down.

  36. #86
    Senior Member Boydy's Avatar
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    I might move to the hills and learn how to grow my own food in a few years time.

  37. #87
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    Actually, here's a question. I know nuclear power is BAD Mmmkay, but would that solve it? If so, what the dickens are we doing not going for that?

  38. #88
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yevrah View Post
    But we're not going to stop building other machines, let alone get rid of the existing ones, are we? In which case that sort of thinking sounds bob on to me. I know nothing of whether that actually works, I'm Yevrah etc. but that's the type of road we need to go down.
    But that's what I mean. It's that thinking that got us in to this mess in the first place. We need to stop making shit.

    It's obviously not going to happen, but it's what needs to happen if we actually want to solve this. Which I'm not sure we really do. Christ knows I still want to go on holiday.

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boydy View Post
    I might move to the hills and learn how to grow my own food in a few years time.
    It's funny, those survivalist types with their bunkers and practical skills are roundly mocked, but if any of them are still alive when the reckoning happens they'll be set for a while. I'd probably rather be dead personally, but if your lust for life is that strong, crack on.

  40. #90
    Administrator Kikó's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yevrah View Post
    We need to reduce them by 60%. Sixty. It is not going to happen.
    It's not a one or nothing. There are a number of improvements needed, buildings are one of them.

    Nuclear power is one way to reduce the need for fossil fuel energy but aren't quickly built and have longer term disposal issues. Page 26 in that report shows where they play a part.

  41. #91
    Administrator Kikó's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikey M View Post
    But that's what I mean. It's that thinking that got us in to this mess in the first place. We need to stop making shit.

    It's obviously not going to happen, but it's what needs to happen if we actually want to solve this. Which I'm not sure we really do. Christ knows I still want to go on holiday.
    The circular economy is building some momentum as well: https://www.ellenmacarthurfoundation...nomy-in-detail

    It's the reuse that will allow for some consumerism to continue.

  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikey M View Post
    But that's what I mean. It's that thinking that got us in to this mess in the first place. We need to stop making shit.
    It's not though, is it. We were building machines to make our lives better and not to save our environment. If machines can do the latter then that's a different motivation and one we should absolutely go for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spikey M View Post
    It's obviously not going to happen, but it's what needs to happen if we actually want to solve this. Which I'm not sure we really do. Christ knows I still want to go on holiday.
    So it's obviously not going to happen but we need to piss about wasting years or decades we don't have trying, rather than thinking of a completely different approach and solution? Madness.

  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kikó View Post
    It's not a one or nothing. There are a number of improvements needed, buildings are one of them.

    Nuclear power is one way to reduce the need for fossil fuel energy but aren't quickly built and have longer term disposal issues. Page 26 in that report shows where they play a part.
    The report is pointless, because if it needs 104 pages of different stuff (let's say 60 with the worthless pictures removed) to come together, across the globe, in the next few years, it's failed before it's even started. This needs a solution you can write in one sentence.*

    *Building/making/doing the solution might be infinitely more complicated, but that's fine.

  44. #94
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    Maybe if you're dreadfully simple. The report is clearly not aimed at you.

  45. #95
    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yevrah View Post
    So it's obviously not going to happen but we need to piss about wasting years or decades we don't have trying, rather than thinking of a completely different approach and solution? Madness.
    No. I'm saying we're not going to solve the problem because we won't take the steps required. Instead, we're going to piss about building anti-C02 machines and Insulating lofts... while China builds Coal Powerplants.

    It's all bollocks. It's the same as the Premier League players taking the knee. It achieves nothing but it allows the people in charge to pretend they're doing something.

    The solution is to stop living the way we do currently and we won't do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kikó View Post
    Maybe if you're dreadfully simple. The report is clearly not aimed at you.
    People are dreadfully simple, and we need to get billions of those people to do things differently if we're going to get out of this using the current plan, with no immediate motivation to do so. That you or those behind the report are incapable of comprehending this is one of the reasons why we are truly fucked.

  47. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikey M View Post
    No. I'm saying we're not going to solve the problem because we won't take the steps required. Instead, we're going to piss about building anti-C02 machines and Insulating lofts... while China builds Coal Powerplants.

    It's all bollocks. It's the same as the Premier League players taking the knee. It achieves nothing but it allows the people in charge to pretend they're doing something.

    The solution is to stop living the way we do currently and we won't do it.
    I completely agree with all of that apart from the bit I've bolded. If we won't do it (I agree we won't) then it isn't a solution and we need to find one.

  48. #98
    Administrator Kikó's Avatar
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    The report is not aimed at Linda who works at Greggs. It's aimed at governmental agencies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kikó View Post
    The report is not aimed at Linda who works at Greggs. It's aimed at governmental agencies.
    Who have all singularly failed to bring about anything like enough change to this point. You know the definition of madness, right?

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    Senior Member Spikey M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yevrah View Post
    I completely agree with all of that apart from the bit I've bolded. If we won't do it (I agree we won't) then it isn't a solution and we need to find one.
    There isn't a solution other than to stop doing it. It's like an Alcoholic trying to solve being an Alcoholic without giving up Alcohol.

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