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Thread: U.S. Presidential Election 2016 (Sponsored by Betty Croker's Hamburger Helper)

  1. #7201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post


    The state of these people.
    Lol. That'll sure fix the problem of unemployment, rampant criminality, children born out of wedlock, illiteracy, etc within the Black community!

  2. #7202
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    Thoughts on the white supremacist march, Mert?

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    Romulus Augustulus ItalAussie's Avatar
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    Hey Mert, when was the last time you posted literally anything at all aside from alt/far-right politics?

    You've become one-note, and it's a rubbish note.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mert View Post
    Lol. That'll sure fix the problem of unemployment, rampant criminality, children born out of wedlock, illiteracy, etc within the Black community!
    Just going to ignore the white guys with the winch and the white guys who get the kicks in? There's two black guys in the whole of that crowd. That said, tearing down monuments is dumb. Keep that shit there as a reminder of your past. It doesn't have to be celebratory.

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    Senior Member niko_cee's Avatar
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    I was hoping that monument was going to fall on someone, or, at the very least, someone gave it a good going over with a shoe. Alas.

  6. #7206
    Senior Member Spoonsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shindig View Post
    Just going to ignore the white guys with the winch and the white guys who get the kicks in? There's two black guys in the whole of that crowd. That said, tearing down monuments is dumb. Keep that shit there as a reminder of your past. It doesn't have to be celebratory.
    If it's a legitimately historical monument, sure, but this 'Confederate Soldier' statue was erected in 1924. I like the idea of putting them in museums.

  7. #7207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoonsky View Post
    If it's a legitimately historical monument, sure, but this 'Confederate Soldier' statue was erected in 1924. I like the idea of putting them in museums.
    Caveat: I know nothing about this particular statue.

    Is it not the case that this statue represents the soldiers who fought and died for the Confederates? They were Americans - and surely deserve some sort of monument to remember their deaths?
    Following on from that, if you make it "bad guys v good guys" or "it happened recently", then surely you would have to remove any monuments to Vietnam vets, also - given that that war was not sanctioned by the UN?

    EDIT: Oh god, I somehow find myself on Mert's side. Urgh.

  8. #7208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoonsky View Post
    If it's a legitimately historical monument, sure, but this 'Confederate Soldier' statue was erected in 1924. I like the idea of putting them in museums.
    What makes a monument historically 'legitimate'? The Founding Fathers are next after they tear down the Confederate monuments, and then where will it stop? You think getting rid of publicly visible monuments will be the point at which the Leftists will say 'okay enough erasing history!'? It will never end, they will never be satisfied.

    This monument honored those who died defending their homes. The vast majority didn't own slaves, had no political stake in the war. This is lunacy and mob rule and honestly naked hatred towards Southern White people at this stage. When this sort of behavior is enabled, encouraged, even celebrated by mainstream Democrats, are you surprised that average White people are drifting towards the alt-right? Who is left to defend them and their identity?

  9. #7209
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    @Mert - out of all the shit that happened last weekend - why are you focusing on this one event? What are your thoughts on the White Supremacist (and disgusting chants that were heard) rallies that occurred over the weekend?

  10. #7210
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Arne View Post
    Thoughts on the white supremacist march, Mert?
    White supremacy is dumb and evil. Identity politics is absolute poison. Fascism is very very far from the conservative principles I believe in. But, those marchers had their rights violated, and the Left shouldn't be surprised that when they operate an agenda on the basis of tribal mobilization of racial / sexual interest groups, eventually White people in America will also mobilize and rent seek in the same fashion.

  11. #7211
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    I've honestly stopped following politics as closely in the last few months with work and all that has been going on. Pretty much everyone is shitty, and you've got like 8 consistently rational people left. I only really listen to Ben Shapiro, and even that on a very intermittent basis (and him I disagree with on a number of points too, but at least he's intellectually honest).

    The country is too diverse and there is too much centralized federal power (and the Left will never let the States exercise their own authority if it conflicts with certain necessary cultural capitulations). After my time working in Louisiana I've come to realize more than ever that it's just two entirely different worlds that are deeply irreconcilable. What is taken as undeniable moral truth in New York is seen as unacceptable / incomprehensible moral degeneracy in the South. My prediction would be that White people aren't going to just allow themselves to suffer complete cultural / demographic annihilation without a fight, it's against every human / tribal instinct. I think there will be a war / secession in the coming decades.

  12. #7212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mert View Post
    White supremacy is dumb and evil. Identity politics is absolute poison. Fascism is very very far from the conservative principles I believe in. But, those marchers had their rights violated, and the Left shouldn't be surprised that when they operate an agenda on the basis of tribal mobilization of racial / sexual interest groups, eventually White people in America will also mobilize and rent seek in the same fashion.
    Genuine question; in what way? I genuinely only saw images of them being allowed to chant and march as they wanted (and be protected by black officers). Was the march eventually shut down before the agreed time?

  13. #7213
    Senior Member John's Avatar
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    It took Trump three days to condemn the white supremacist who drove a car into a crowd, Mert. Does that give you pause as to just what kind of fuckwit you were hailing as the GOD EMPEROR?

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Arne View Post
    Genuine question; in what way? I genuinely only saw images of them being allowed to chant and march as they wanted (and be protected by black officers). Was the march eventually shut down before the agreed time?
    They weren't allowed to go through with the event. Right before it started police officers raided the park and declared the event an 'illegal assembly' (which is ludicrous / not something that exists). They were then ushered out to leave the park through a path that went right through the counter-protesters. This is outrageous and every American citizen should be concerned at the way the event was handled. Was this deliberate, did they want a violent clash to occur, or simple incompetence? Who knows. But it happened.

  15. #7215
    Senior Member John's Avatar
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    There were plenty of pictures of them marching around with torches and flags. Whether those were all taken before their 'event' was due to start or not I don't know, but they seemed to get plenty of eventing in either way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    It took Trump three days to condemn the white supremacist who drove a car into a crowd, Mert. Does that give you pause as to just what kind of fuckwit you were hailing as the GOD EMPEROR?
    He condemned both sides, which was just, because both sides were violent. Initial reports suggested that the kid who drove the car into a crowd did so because he was in genuine fear for his life and surrounded, and that it wasn't a deliberate premeditated and malicious 'terrorist attack.'

    Fascists and communists fighting in the street is a story as old as time. They both suck and should be marginalized from the political discourse, the difference is that there is no public pressure on Democrats to disavow the violence perpetrated by BLM / Antifa / etc, whereas the Right falls over itself to distance itself from white nationalists / supremacists at every opportunity.

  17. #7217
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    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    There were plenty of pictures of them marching around with torches and flags. Whether those were all taken before their 'event' was due to start or not I don't know, but they seemed to get plenty of eventing in either way.
    Those were small independent and unrelated groups. The real event with speakers was not allowed to go forward.

  18. #7218
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    Was Hitler a bad man? 'I condemn toothbrush moustaches on all men'.

  19. #7219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mert View Post
    He condemned both sides, which was just, because both sides were violent. Initial reports suggested that the kid who drove the car into a crowd did so because he was in genuine fear for his life and surrounded, and that it wasn't a deliberate premeditated and malicious 'terrorist attack.'
    I don't get this comment. Initial reports may have suggested that - however, you have obviously seen the video clip that proves it was completely intentional - so why even try to use it as some sort of justification? Bizarre.

  20. #7220
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Arne View Post
    I don't get this comment. Initial reports may have suggested that - however, you have obviously seen the video clip that proves it was completely intentional - so why even try to use it as some sort of justification? Bizarre.
    This is a different angle, right before he sped into the crowd, apparently a brick had been thrown through his window right before as well:



    Keep in mind the kid didn't resist arrest and immediately gave himself up to the police. Likely he isn't some raging Nazi terrorist, but an autistic disenfranchised white kid who freaked out (which is what a lot of what I'm reading is suggesting happened). It's absolutely manslaughter at the very least, but intent isn't irrelevant here. As with any situation, let's wait until the facts have been established before we rush to judgment. This goes for Nazis as much as it does with any other person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mert View Post
    They weren't allowed to go through with the event. Right before it started police officers raided the park and declared the event an 'illegal assembly' (which is ludicrous / not something that exists). They were then ushered out to leave the park through a path that went right through the counter-protesters. This is outrageous and every American citizen should be concerned at the way the event was handled. Was this deliberate, did they want a violent clash to occur, or simple incompetence? Who knows. But it happened.
    This video (and hundreds more, including from those on the rally) suggests otherwise...



    So, were they allowed to march, or weren't they? I'll ask the same questions.... Which rights of theirs were violated?

  22. #7222
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Arne View Post
    This video (and hundreds more, including from those on the rally) suggests otherwise...



    So, were they allowed to march, or weren't they? I'll ask the same questions.... Which rights of theirs were violated?
    This wasn't the registered event. This was just random dudes walking around (hence there being nearly no counter-protesters) who were eventually told to disperse because it was an illegal assembly and then they did. Peacefully.

    Also a lot of those people are not clear-cut Nazis. They are just white people who want to legitimize advocacy for their self-interest in the same way that literally every other group in the US is allowed to do. I disagree with all identity politics and shitty rent-seeking / whining, but from a Leftist paradigm I don't understand why they shouldn't be accepted (aside from double-standard racism against Whites).

  23. #7223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mert View Post
    This is a different angle, right before he sped into the crowd, apparently a brick had been thrown through his window right before as well:



    Keep in mind the kid didn't resist arrest and immediately gave himself up to the police. Likely he isn't some raging Nazi terrorist, but an autistic disenfranchised white kid who freaked out (which is what a lot of what I'm reading is suggesting happened). It's absolutely manslaughter at the very least, but intent isn't irrelevant here. As with any situation, let's wait until the facts have been established before we rush to judgment. This goes for Nazis as much as it does with any other person.
    FAKE NEWS.

    Now you are just lying, and you know it. That screen grab is taken from this video, after the crash happened.



    Whereas this video shows that the car appears to be intentionally speeding up (whilst not surrounded by any protestors) towards the crowd. Whilst, we don't know what happened before this, it's pretty clear that the driver is driving along under no duress prior to the incident.


  24. #7224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mert View Post
    This wasn't the registered event. This was just random dudes walking around (hence there being nearly no counter-protesters) who were eventually told to disperse because it was an illegal assembly and then they did. Peacefully.
    Ok, i'll take your word for that - as this event does appear to have taken place a day before the major issues - that said, it is still a group of people chanting extremely racist things (and being allowed to).

  25. #7225
    Senior Member John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mert View Post
    He condemned both sides, which was just, because both sides were violent. Initial reports suggested that the kid who drove the car into a crowd did so because he was in genuine fear for his life and surrounded, and that it wasn't a deliberate premeditated and malicious 'terrorist attack.'
    He didn't condemn both sides, he said he wasn't keen on hatred, apparently coming 'from many sides'. It took him three days before he was willing to say he wasn't keen on white supremacists, and even then it was a half hearted, grudging non-statement. There might end up being violence on both sides, but the violence originates in one place. If one group turns up with the rhetoric 'kill all blacks, take the country back' and another one turns up with 'let's not' and a fight breaks out, I don't care who threw the first punch, the first group is much more heavily at fault.

    Saying 'fuck Nazis' is such an absolute gimme for a politician that, unless you agree with them on some level, you should be falling over yourself to say it. It took him three days.

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    Fair enough, I didn't check the source of the image. A friend had posted that in a politics group message we have and I didn't question it.

    Maybe it was premeditated terrorism, in which case I support throwing the book at him and having him rot in jail and/or executed. But principles of justice, innocent until proven guilty, still apply and I will wait until the facts are out before rushing to judgment (as I do in every similar circumstance).

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    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    He didn't condemn both sides, he said he wasn't keen on hatred, apparently coming 'from many sides'. It took him three days before he was willing to say he wasn't keen on white supremacists, and even then it was a half hearted, grudging non-statement. There might end up being violence on both sides, but the violence originates in one place. If one group turns up with the rhetoric 'kill all blacks, take the country back' and another one turns up with 'let's not' and a fight breaks out, I don't care who threw the first punch, the first group is much more heavily at fault.

    Saying 'fuck Nazis' is such an absolute gimme for a politician that, unless you agree with them on some level, you should be falling over yourself to say it. It took him three days.
    You are clearly not aware of the rhetoric coming out from the Left against Whites (or conservatives). This event wasn't about being against any group, it was about advocating for White people. There is plenty of violence and hatred on both sides.

    How many violent counter-protests do you see at far-left rallies? None. When's the last time you heard of violent rioting in response to a Leftist give a lecture on a college campus? Violence only emerges when those on the right voice their views publicly. If anything the balance and track record of violence is strongly tilted against those on the Left, I am doing a service by conceding some degree of equivalence.

    When women or minorities march in favor of their rights, is this advocating for violence against men or Whites? Same principle.

  28. #7228
    Senior Member John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mert View Post
    Whites (or conservatives)
    Don't do that.

  29. #7229
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    I would like to re-iterate, that I believe in the righteousness of an identity-blind constitutionally based approach to governance which holds Enlightenment values as supreme. I hate how shitty the alt-right makes conservatives look, and the extent to which it alienates / deligitimizes the Right while energizing the Left. I however advocate for consistent application of certain fundamental principles, regardless of context.

  30. #7230
    Senior Member John's Avatar
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    The man you spent two years hailing as the reincarnation of Christ does far more to delegitimise the Right than any bunch of Nazi fuckwits ever could.

  31. #7231
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    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    The man you spent two years hailing as the reincarnation of Christ does far more to delegitimise the Right than any bunch of Nazi fuckwits ever could.
    Yeh but memes bro

  32. #7232
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    Not a sentence I thought I'd ever say but... I agree with the Evangelist Christian guy from www.theamericanconservative.com



    Full link: http://www.theamericanconservative.c...ate-nehushtan/

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    TAC is pretty good.

  34. #7234
    Custom User Title phonics's Avatar
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    TBF, all Chapo's best episodes revolve around reading Rod Dreher articles so I get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mert View Post
    What makes a monument historically 'legitimate'?
    It just seems like it was erected a pretty long time after the fact, but looking into it most of the statues are like that. So who knows. Did you know there's a statue of Lenin in Seattle?

  36. #7236
    Senior Member Spoonsky's Avatar
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    But tell me, because I want to understand this: how is a white kid in the south actually 'disenfranchised?'

  37. #7237
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    He was disenfranchised with his brakes. That video's horrific. We need the conventional right to bury these fucking keyboard warrior edge lords.

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  39. #7239
    Senior Member Pepe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoonsky View Post
    It just seems like it was erected a pretty long time after the fact, but looking into it most of the statues are like that. So who knows. Did you know there's a statue of Lenin in Seattle?
    And one of Benito Juarez in Chicago.

  40. #7240
    Senior Member John's Avatar
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    I saw that video on Facebook earlier. Vice are good at a lot of things, but their content dealing with race relations tends to be a shambles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoonsky View Post
    It just seems like it was erected a pretty long time after the fact, but looking into it most of the statues are like that. So who knows. Did you know there's a statue of Lenin in Seattle?
    I did an internship like a block away from that statue last summer. There's a homeless guy posted up in front of it at all hours of the day reciting poems and yelling at people, which is a nice foil to Lenin's legacy, I think

  42. #7242
    Senior Member Jimmy Floyd's Avatar
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    I think the best take on this so far has been Gary Lineker tweeting 'Sort yourself out America, you've lost the plot', only to be taken to task in the first couple of replies by both Rodney Marsh and then, separately, Mike 'Porky' Parry.

  43. #7243
    Senior Member Spoonsky's Avatar
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    Interesting: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/...ate-monuments/

    Also, Trump's squad of CEOs has all resigned because of his comments on Charlottesville.

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    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    I've enjoyed all of the blue tick whoppers posting Second World War pictures with 'lol what about these anti-Nazis?' Who knew the British Empire had so many fans?

  45. #7245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoonsky View Post
    Interesting: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/...ate-monuments/

    Also, Trump's squad of CEOs has all resigned because of his comments on Charlottesville.
    I'd have opposed any monuments to a war that was very in the public memory at the time those comments were sought.

  46. #7246
    Senior Member GS's Avatar
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    In amongst all the hilarity, the logical extension of all of this is the call to rename Washington D.C. on the grounds he was a slave owner. We should start a pool on when that'll happen.

  47. #7247
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    If it happens, can we rename Washington, Tyne and Wear to something cooler?

  48. #7248
    Senior Member John's Avatar
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    Lewis mentioned the real logical endpoint on the previous page, with renaming the country because Amerigo Vespucci trafficked in slaves.

  49. #7249
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    Rename it google and be done with it.

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    Won the Old Board Lewis's Avatar
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    The person who put the rope around that toppled statue has been busted, and they are allegedly a member of the Workers World Party, which is the communist party over there that openly supports North Korea. So much for satire.

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