Do you believe in God?

[John Arne]

It's been a while since we had a good old religion debate.

I'm atheist, and whilst I used to not really care what other people think, the older I get, I find myself getting annoyed with people who believe in God. And then Christians or Muslims are challenged, politely, on their beliefs - for example "do you literally believe in Adam and Eve, do you believe that there was a talking snake with them, and that God took a rib out of Adam's chest to make Eve?"- they get a little sheepish and fairly defensive. You will find lots of Christian sites that claim this to be literal, and a few less that claim that it is a parable.

The more people I talk to, the more I think that people don't believe in God at all, or the story of Christianity. They simply believe; Christianity is good, I was told I was a Christian, therefore I am a Christian (in the UK, at least).

I find the openness of people like Ted Cruz concerning his religion really unsettling - to think this guy who believes so profoundly in this shit, could be the most powerful man in the world. Frightening.

So, do you actually believe in God and all the stories (those that we are told are literal) of the bible?

[QE Harold Flair]

Yes, I do.

[simon]

I'm not religious, but it's comforting to think that it's not THE END when we die and that there's this happy, magical place in the sky we all go to.

So, I hope there is, but I very much doubt it.

[QE Harold Flair]

What makes you think you'd be in heaven?

[Kikó]

I don't and I don't care. It's really irrelevant in modern life (or should be).

[phonics]

I don't want to fan the fires of the giant mod conspiracy of 2016 but I'm with keeks.

[Toby]

I do not. I have no problem with other people believing as long as they don't deny things like evolution and Earth being older than the bible claims.

[Henry]

No, of course.

I used to care more about what other people thought, but you rarely get anywhere by antagonising them and while I'm still at a loss as to how an educated person could have religious beliefs, I'm more of a view now that the whole subject, including its relationship with history and philosophy is very interesting.

[simon]

What makes you think you'd be in heaven?

I'm a lovely chap.

[Toby]

I do not. I have no problem with other people believing as long as they don't deny things like evolution and Earth being older than the bible claims.

On the topic, I've just seen this: http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ution-not-fact

A primary school headteacher has been mocked on Twitter after claiming that evolution was “a theory” and there was “more evidence that the Bible is true”.

Christina Wilkinson, of St Andrew’s Church of England school in Oswaldtwistle, Lancashire, made the remarks in a tweet responding to London headteacher Tom Sherrington, who urged teachers to stick to science when teaching the origins of life.

Wilkinson wrote: “Evolution is not a fact. That’s why it’s called a theory! There’s more evidence that the Bible is true.”

I'm sure there are headteachers who are misinformed on all sorts of things, of course, but that sort of argument tends to suggest they haven't even tried to educate themselves.

[Sam]

Hmm, not really.

I do go for the old karma belief, but that's more in just treating others as you'd like to be treated is generally a good thing to do.

[Sir Andy Mahowry]

I do not. I have no problem with other people believing as long as they don't deny things like evolution and Earth being older than the bible claims.

This.

Although I do find it a little annoying when believers start thanking god for something they've done, especially in sport.

[Toby]

I'm fine with that, since I can see how their faith might have helped give them the motivation and focus to achieve.

It's worse when people tell others to thank God for their achievements. I remember a kid in my school being really upset when his mum told him he should pray and thank God that he'd aced all his exams, because he felt like she wasn't acknowledging his hard work. That's just shitty.

[Jimmy Floyd]

You're all answering the question 'Are you religious'.

I don't believe in a religious God as such, who needs to be worshipped and have candles lit and shit, but I do conceive of God as the force which makes things happen. Why are there cows? The only satisfactory answer is because God, whatever form he may take, determined in some direct or indirect way that there should be cows.

[John Arne]

You're all answering the question 'Are you religious'.

I don't believe in a religious God as such, who needs to be worshipped and have candles lit and shit, but I do conceive of God as the force which makes things happen. Why are there cows? The only satisfactory answer is because God, whatever form he may take, determined in some direct or indirect way that there should be cows.

Has the cricket got your head spinning?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Tell me why there are cows then, and I'm not interested in your atoms, tell me why there are atoms.

[John Arne]

Do you believe in evolution?

[Disco]

You're all answering the question 'Are you religious'.

I don't believe in a religious God as such, who needs to be worshipped and have candles lit and shit, but I do conceive of God as the force which makes things happen. Why are there cows? The only satisfactory answer is because God, whatever form he may take, determined in some direct or indirect way that there should be cows.

That's lumping an awful lot of things together (which is probably how you make cows too come to think of it) especially when you consider that the answer to your question could easily be 'Why not cows?'

[QE Harold Flair]

I don't believe in a religious God as such, who needs to be worshipped and have candles lit and shit, but I do conceive of God as the force which makes things happen. Why are there cows? The only satisfactory answer is because God, whatever form he may take, determined in some direct or indirect way that there should be cows.

Why is that the only satisfactory answer? Why is there God? It's the same backwards shit as 'God must have created everything because you can't say how it happened'. 'Yea, then who crated God?'. 'Oh, he's always existed!'

[Henry]

Tell me why there are cows then, and I'm not interested in your atoms, tell me why there are atoms.

You appear to be presenting the first cause argument - which is of course fallacious as you should know.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Yeah we're not in some yank primary school here, up your game. Why does all that stuff work? Once you get back to the answer 'because it does', that's where God steps in.

God to me is effectively everything that I do not or cannot influence with conscious action.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Why is that the only satisfactory answer? Why is there God? It's the same backwards shit as 'God must have created everything because you can't say how it happened'. 'Yea, then who crated God?'. 'Oh, he's always existed!'

You're still talking aboug religious God.

[QE Harold Flair]

Yeah we're not in some yank primary school here, up your game. Why does all that stuff work? Once you get back to the answer 'because it does', that's where God steps in.

God to me is effectively everything that I do not or cannot influence with conscious action.

'God of the gaps' is the worst and most fallacious argument ever advanced.

[QE Harold Flair]

You're still talking aboug religious God.

No, i'm talking about the creator God, which is what you are advancing.

[Giggles]

You're all answering the question 'Are you religious'.

I don't believe in a religious God as such, who needs to be worshipped and have candles lit and shit, but I do conceive of God as the force which makes things happen. Why are there cows? The only satisfactory answer is because God, whatever form he may take, determined in some direct or indirect way that there should be cows.

This sums up myself too for the most part.

[John Arne]

Yeah we're not in some yank primary school here, up your game. Why does all that stuff work? Once you get back to the answer 'because it does', that's where God steps in.

God to me is effectively everything that I do not or cannot influence with conscious action.

Do you believe that God hands out good luck and bad luck - seeming as that isn't always a conscious action?

[Jimmy Floyd]

I'm not talking about anyone creating anything. 'God' is a poor word to describe it because you're all thinking man with white beard in the sky.

The universe has realm A which I am able to influence, and God is realm B.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Do you believe that God hands out good luck and bad luck - seeming as that isn't always a conscious action?

'Luck' is a social construct. Stuff just happens. I'm a determinist.

[Lewis]

It's been five years since the last Cosmic Floyd sighting. Let's make it ten next time.

[John Arne]

The universe has realm A which I am able to influence, and God is realm B.

Complete cop out. It means nothing.

[randomlegend]

Jimmy talks such a load of fucking bollocks when it comes to this shit.

[Jimmy Floyd]

It's been five years since the last Cosmic Floyd sighting. Let's make it ten next time.

I make it seven. It's good though because I'm now ineligible for a mid life crisis. Sorted it young.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Jimmy talks such a load of fucking bollocks when it comes to this shit.

Please do enlighten me with the correct answer.

[randomlegend]

Why does there have to be an 'answer'? Can't you cope otherwise?

[Chrissy]

If people wish to believe in anything, as long as it causes no harm to anyone, then good luck to them.

At the end of the day it all boils down to faith in what you do/don't believe.

[Henry]

Please do enlighten me with the correct answer.

The absence of any verifiable "correct answer" doesn't mean that appealing to a deity is the correct thing to do.

[Toby]

You're all answering the question 'Are you religious'.

I don't believe in a religious God as such, who needs to be worshipped and have candles lit and shit, but I do conceive of God as the force which makes things happen. Why are there cows? The only satisfactory answer is because God, whatever form he may take, determined in some direct or indirect way that there should be cows.

Isn't it just more random than that? We've just had billions of years of whatever matter reacting with whatever other matter. At some point an animal formed four legs and an udder, survived, and now we have the modern day cow. That seems more plausible to me than some deterministic factor. I'd suggest what you're struggling to describe when settling for the word God just sounds like what everybody else would refer to as ('Mother') nature.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Complete cop out. It means nothing.

If I'm going across a zebra crossing, and a bus is coming, I have a choice to make. I am able to control whether or not I step onto the crossing, but God, in the form of a bus driver, is driving the bus.

[Disco]

Why does existence need a reason or a purpose?

[randomlegend]

[Disco]

If I'm going across a zebra crossing, and a bus is coming, I have a choice to make. I am able to control whether or not I step onto the crossing, but God, in the form of a bus driver, is driving the bus.

Are we going to see you on the news with your tie round your head as you hold Korean middle management hostage?

[Jimmy Floyd]

Why does there have to be an 'answer'? Can't you cope otherwise?

Human curiosity.

[Giggles]

After I thought the initial post summed up my stance, I would just like to take the opportunity to distance myself from an subsequent ones.

[phonics]

If I'm going across a zebra crossing, and a bus is coming, I have a choice to make. I am able to control whether or not I step onto the crossing, but God, in the form of a bus driver, is driving the bus.

What? That's mental. You think there's a 'thing' out there that watches a million parallel universes pushing people into this one or that one? Or is there one universe and a 'thing' going, "Him, not him, him, not him."?

[John Arne]

Human curiosity.

Your position is the opposite of curiosity. Why does a cow exist? - rather than wanting to understand/accept science and evolution, you just said "I don't know why anything happens, therefore God".

[Jimmy Floyd]

Isn't it just more random than that? We've just had billions of years of whatever matter reacting with whatever other matter. At some point an animal formed four legs and an udder, survived, and now we have the modern day cow. That seems more plausible to me than some deterministic factor. I'd suggest what you're struggling to describe when settling for the word God just sounds like what everybody else would refer to as ('Mother') nature.

Now we're getting somewhere. I think though that if you look at why the earliest religions would have started, this idea is closer to being serviceable as 'God' than any religious gods, which have somewhat soured the 'God' brand.

[Jimmy Floyd]

Your position is the opposite of curiosity. Why does a cow exist? - rather than wanting to understand/accept science and evolution, you just said "I don't know why anything happens, therefore God".

You couldn't have misunderstood more if you'd responded with a gay porn link.

[Toby]

You think there's a 'thing' out there that watches a million parallel universes pushing people into this one or that one?

He very clearly hasn't said that or at any point even suggested a single entity.

[phonics]

Hence the question marks. I'm asking a question not judging him, I genuinely didn't understand what he meant. But if we have to be PROVING WE'RE RIGHT with every post in a thread called 'Do You Believe in God?' then I guess I'm out before I got started anyway.

[randomlegend]

Why are there cows? The only satisfactory answer is because God

You couldn't have misunderstood more if you'd responded with a gay porn link.

Except that's exactly what you said....?