These Sex Attacks in Germany

[Yevrah]

Seriously, what the fuck is all that about?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35248601

Police in Germany will have to rethink their tactics following attacks on women in the city of Cologne on New Year's Eve, a senior official has said.
Ralf Jaeger, interior minister for North Rhine-Westphalia, said police had to "adjust" to the fact that groups of men had attacked women en masse.

And this sort of stuff really needs to stop:

Mr Jaeger also warned that anti-immigrant groups were trying to use the attacks to stir up hatred against refugees.
"What happens on the right-wing platforms and in chat rooms is at least as awful as the acts of those assaulting the women," he said. "This is poisoning the climate of our society."

Yes, because being raped really is better than idiots talking to other idiots in right wing chatrooms.

If there's a racial element to this (and I've no idea whether that's the case or not given how under reported the whole thing has been so far), then there's a racial element.

We don't have any Germans here, do we?

[Lewis]

You wonder whether these people have to convince themselves when they use these sort of things to have a pop at the 'far-right', or whether they genuinely can't face up to Muslims doing any wrong. I remember Andy Burnham writing an absolute classic of the genre a while back (I can't find it) where he railed against skinheads and Henry Ford for causing the rise in anti-semitism.

[Yevrah]

It's difficult to argue with that when you see there's only been three people identified so far and no arrests, for something that happened a week ago. What have the authorities been doing? Shitting themselves seems to be the obvious answer.

[Lewis]

It wasn't Andy Burnham (soz Andy la), it was now ex-politician Douglas Alexander. How do you even bring yourself to write that?

[Yevrah]

Oh the response gets better.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-35243482

[Pepe]

They probably deserved it the filthy whores.

[Jimmy Floyd]

You have to remember this is Germany and they have a bit of history when it comes to far right and labelling ethnic groups - this is why they are letting in a million refugees and Britain 10,000 or whatever - so I imagine most politicians there will be very comfortable throwing unlimited numbers of violated women under a bus as long as they can keep the rainbow shining.

[Manc]

Gegenpressing I believe it's called.

[Boydy]

According to the BBC it happened in Hamburg too, using 'similar tactics'.

[Jimmy Floyd]

The details are sketchy as hell. Is it a case of a thousand men rushing women in a pre-meditated groping orgy on the basis that 'they can't arrest all of us'?

In fact it, and the reporting on it / reaction from the authorities is about as murky a thing as I can recall.

[Boydy]

It seems to be that. I don't know. How do they even manage to organise that? There were loads of thefts as well, apparently.

[SvN]

Doubt it was organised. It's presumably a bunch of dickheads in once place being drunk and realising they can get away with copping a feel of women as they walk past.

[randomlegend]

I read that at least one of the incidents fulfilled the legal definition of rape, so seems some were going a bit further than just copping a feel.

[SvN]

Yep without a doubt. There were over 100 cases reported though, so most of them were presumably sexual assault rather than full blown rape.

[Sam]

Sounds like a typical Saturday night. Bunch of drunks trying to cop a feel of a woman mainly (apart from the accused rape)? Some organised crime that is.

[SvN]

I've seen multiple videos online of similar occurrences in the US during "protests" after a black individual gets killed by police. Not on this scale, mind - but this isn't a new thing. It's repulsive idiots thinking (quite rightly, it seems) that they can do what they want and get away with it.

[Lewis]

This is a good point. It could have been any of us in that group doing the mass grope that has never happened before until all these Muslims rolled up, so let's not judge and slag them off.

[Magic]

Fucking hell someone on LL commented the police chief would resign after blaming this on refugees and open doors. The replacement would blame right wing media and absolve the criminals of responsibility.

[Bernanke]

This is a good point. It could have been any of us in that group doing the mass grope that has never happened before until all these Muslims rolled up, so let's not judge and slag them off.

Edward Siddons
@edwardsiddons
Writer, editor, translator. Published by @Dazed, @WallpaperMag, @IndyVoices. I write on queer culture, epidemics, trauma, and mourning. Renaissance twink.

[Lewis]

This is a good one. 'The left must admit the truth about the assaults on women in Cologne', sez Deborah Orr. Hmm. Right-on, love.

Fifth, how could anyone possibly imagine that among a million people from anywhere there wouldn’t be some proportion of nasty, sleazy misogynists? A British legal history that includes the withholding of all manner of basic rights from women suggests that there’s nothing racially or religiously inherent in chauvinism. People tend to believe what they’re taught to believe, and the unreliable evidence of what they see around them, until free thinkers and visionary leaders call them out on it.

Sixth, it is beyond doubt that there are people living in Europe now who have been brought up in a culture where a woman would be publicly and viciously punished for allowing herself to be the victim of a sexual assault. It is utterly unrealistic to expect all those brought up in fundamentalist religious cultures – conservative Islam being the largest, but by no means the only such culture – to be able suddenly and completely to ditch all aspects of the pervasive environment they were brought up in.

How could anyone have possibly imagined? Who proof-reads these things?

[Alan Shearer The 2nd]

The Independent runs the Guardian close nowadays for real twaddle.

[Shindig]

I dunno, the Guardian ran that story about the DWP sending out a "Not ill enough" letter to a woman who was having her life support pulled. Pavel slapped that in his facebook feed going, "SEE!? THE SYSTEM FAILS!!" Extra daft considering the claimants are like, "Well, I know we lacked evidence but our GP is like... hard to get a hold of erm... "

[Bartholomert]

This happened in my city.

Fucking lol at suicidal delusional European liberals, they deserve all this and more.

Also can provide details as my sisters friends and were near the Dom when it happened.

[QE Harold Flair]

Fucking hell, 22 posts on one of the most despicable mass crimes in recent history. This is basically soft bigotry. 'Well it's to be expected from them, they know no better'.....

I like the phrase used by the excellent Mark Steyn - 'Islam has nothing to do with Islam'. I'm keeping that.

[Lee]

There's not really much to say other than it's a disgusting thing to have happened, is there?

It's obviously shit but it's not an exciting 'event' like a terrorist attack so it isn't going attract too much comment.

That it (wrongly) wasn't publicised until well after it happened will be a factor too.

[QE Harold Flair]

Sounds like a typical Saturday night. Bunch of drunks trying to cop a feel of a woman mainly (apart from the accused rape)? Some organised crime that is.

Ah, there we go

a Thousand sexual assaults on one night in one place. Typical Saturday night, mate.

[Davgooner]

It's going to take a fair while for the full facts to come out in terms of who was involved etc. If there are refugees amongst them then I don't think anyone would have any issues with deporting them once they've served time. We probably need to have a proper look at how we educate those coming into Europe and assimilate them into our culture; I think Sweden has been rolling out an education process for the migrants it's taking in.

Lots of reports of randoms being twatted by right-wing groups in Germany over the last couple of weeks unfortunately.

[QE Harold Flair]

'If'?

I wouldn't believe everything you hear about 'right wing groups'. The media routinely lie about violence during their demonstrations.

Sweden is now the rape capital of Europe. I wonder why. I mean you could 'educate' these men that raping women isn't nice. I don't fancy your chances. There is an easier solution....

[Davgooner]

The numbers are a shambles at the minute. The police also seem to have fucked up on a huge scale.

[QE Harold Flair]

More than 1,700 police, under orders from the German government, turned out to halt a 3,000-strong PEGIDA demonstration in Cologne city center today—a marked contrast to the paltry 150 officers who were sent to the same venue to counter the nonwhite refugee-criminal attacks on New Year’s Eve.

....

[Disco]

Because the circumstances there are comparable.

[QE Harold Flair]

They're not. One was a peaceful demonstration, the other a mass sex attack. You're quite right.

[Sam]

They're not. One was a peaceful demonstration, the other a mass sex attack. You're quite right.

So your statement above is totally pointless ?

I mean even logically, it doesn't make any sense. One is arguably a planned rally, the other a spontaneous event?

[QE Harold Flair]

No, it's completely to the point. 1600 police for a demonstration by 3000 protestors, or 150 police for 1000 sex attackers? The latter is how many responded to said event. Priorities, you see.

[Sam]

No, it's completely to the point. 1600 police for a demonstration by 3000 protestors, or 150 police for 1000 sex attackers? The latter is how many responded to said event. Priorities, you see.

One is a planned event which was probably posted on Pegida website as well as various social media, plus rallies require some form of permissions, especially as it is at a capital building as noted. That and there have been a string of attacks by supporters of Pegida on immigrants since the sex attack incident so police presence is obviously going to be much higher as they wish to avoid any further incidents.

The sex attacks weren't predicted, no one knew they were going to happen apart from those who were going to perform the crime. That and circumstantially that it was New Years Eve in a city well known for it's lucrative and carnival-esque celebrations during that particular period in the year.

So yes, it is a totally invalid point.

[QE Harold Flair]

Yes, I'm well aware it was a planned event. Do you really think we need one police person for every 2 protestors?

You've also ignored that the 150 were also those who responded to the incidents, not who was just there.

[Disco]

Yes, I'm well aware it was a planned event. Do you really think we need one police person for every 2 protestors?

You've also ignored that the 150 were also those who responded to the incidents, not who was just there.

Here we see Harold subtly change his stance so he can refer back to this post and claim a different emphasis to his initial point. Not different enough for most rational people but enough for him to slide around and evade long enough for everyone to get bored and forget how specious he was being.

[QE Harold Flair]

I'm still sticking by my original point - 150 were available (either there already or as responders) for 1000 sex crimes, whilst there was over 2 police people available for every protester who might commit a crime.

[Disco]

Those events are not comparable, your point is specious.

[Sam]

Two different timeline. One a celebration the other a planned rally after significant tensions.

They're apples and oranges.

[QE Harold Flair]

Are you two 'refugees welcome' types, by any chance? Just wondering.

[Disco]

I'm not sure how that would affect german police deployment policies.

[QE Harold Flair]

No, I think it would explain the bizarre stance taken here, though. It's what you often get from the left - massive overreaction to miniscule things like 'manspreading' or rape culture on campus (a proven lie), and when actual repression and actual rape culture is exposed you barely hear a squeek. I get the impressiom, so I do, that you might have had a bit of a feminist backlash if there were 1000 white men sexually assaulting women on one night. We've heard virtually nothing.

[Disco]

Does it also explain your second attempt at deflecting attention away from your original specious comparison?

Admit it was specious and I'll tell you what I think of mass migration.

[QE Harold Flair]

I haven't deflected attention. I reiterated what I said the last time you brought it up a few posts ago.

I don't care much what you think of mass migration.

[Disco]

Have so. What started as a comparison of two very different policing situations has now been moved towards a position that's far easier to defend (with an uncredited edit I might add). Of course misrepresentation of rape/sexual assault is unpleasant and air time / column inches are not equally divided between comparable issues. But that isn't where we started. We started with your specious comparison of two different events.

[QE Harold Flair]

It's still a comparison and I still haven't deviated from that. I don't mind if you disagree with what I say, just don't make things up.

[Disco]

Deflection three, am I supposed to ask you what I've been making up?

You can compare reaction to rape/sexual assault all you like (there's a point to be made about how facile most media coverage of literally everything ever is) but you specifically used the example of police response in your first post. You cannot compare a rapid reaction to an unpredicted event on one of the busiest nights of the year to the pre-planned policing of an arranged event. Those two things are not comparable and you therefore cannot use the difference in police numbers to infer a bias that conforms to your worldview, honest critical thinking does not work that way.

[Sam]

Harold in moving the goalposts shocker.

As disco stated, my view of refugees doesn't dictate German policing policy.

[QE Harold Flair]

Deflection three, am I supposed to ask you what I've been making up?

You can compare reaction to rape/sexual assault all you like (there's a point to be made about how facile most media coverage of literally everything ever is) but you specifically used the example of police response in your first post. You cannot compare a rapid reaction to an unpredicted event on one of the busiest nights of the year to the pre-planned policing of an arranged event. Those two things are not comparable and you therefore cannot use the difference in police numbers to infer a bias that conforms to your worldview, honest critical thinking does not work that way.

I will say it a third time, then. I stand by what I said originally. I don't care that they were different events, it makes no difference. Clear?