Read it all now. She should consider working elsewhere. You might lose the 'part-time arrangement', but if getting to and from it is a job in itself then sort yourself out.
Read it all now. She should consider working elsewhere. You might lose the 'part-time arrangement', but if getting to and from it is a job in itself then sort yourself out.
How much would she be earning?
Yeah, she needs to take responsibility for her own life, and stop blaming it all on someone/something else.
Sort your shit out, if you have to make the above decisions just to get by.
If they're a junior surgeon they won't be getting anything like as much as you think. Consultant surgeons can be loaded (a consultant starts on £75k basic and in some specialties, most surgical ones among them, they can earn a load on top in private work) but juniors mostly aren't.
The government are conning people here. They're picking on doctors because they know people assume they're all rich and so won't kick up a fuss. What they're going to do is make hospitals less safe. We don't have enough doctors as it is. What they need to do is train more or them, not deter people wanting to be doctors.
It's almost like they're trying to run the NHS down so they can privatize it.
They're not trying to privatise it. There's no margin in healthcare in this country. Not without ripping the whole thing up and starting again with a true market, which people wouldn't stand for. Large scale privatisation in UK heathcare died when Circle failed at running Hinchingbrooke.
Man I'm happy I work in Sweden. A colleague of mine (who studied and worked a bit in England) told me just take a picture of your desk and send it to your mates you studied with from the UK (as they'd be flabbergasted a junior doctor has a desk of their own).
Why does a junior doctor need a desk of their own?
Back office savings? He's stuck all the fucking desks in the skip.
I have a mate who's a neurologist in london, he's done 8+ years of trainning, gone through the various battle grounds of the nhs (a&e, nights, 1 step behind from a&e etc) and it'll be 3 years before he's on £50k. Tube drivers train for about 3 months and start on that. He's all but given up on being able to buy a house in london and has been offered jobs to go private in the states and he'd triple his wages over night and not have anywhere near the shit.
We need to pay these people properly or they'll just fuck off and when our turn for brain surgery comes around we'll be faced with some lemon who's probably got a black and white cert from the university of bangalore. Fuck that.
Is he going to go to the US then?
He's weighing it up, although he believes in the fundamental principles of the nhs so would like to spend some time working in it.Originally Posted by simon
Apparently the Royal Colleges have been threatened with removal of their royal charters if they don't back the government against the doctors.
If true that's disgusting. I'm not naive, I know governments get up to some dodgy stuff, but I'm actually shocked at how brazenly shit the governments behaviour has been on this. The amount of outright lying they've done is amazing.
But they LOVE THE NHS, RL. You're clearly just a communist hurting the security of this country.
It's shit like them continuing to peddle this lie about juniors choosing to work long hours as the money inectivizes them to which is really galling (they have no choice in doing the overtime, it's part of their job). There are people doing locum shifts on top for crazy money but that's a separate issue.
The only comeback they have is to try and get it out that it's untrue and hope the public believe them.
Allister Heath wrote a good column about this the other day. In short, nobody will ever actually do anything to the NHS, nor will it ever have enough money, so squeezing junior doctors is the easiest way to free up some money and extra shifts.
How does this (linked to in that article you posted) square with Lee's assertion that we get much better healthcare for our money than most other countries?
Won't be the easiest way if they all leave.
Heard there is a shortage of junior doctors in Somalia.
I don't know, but isn't the fact we're a relative deathtrap for things like cancer well-known?
Or Australia, New Zealand, the US etc.Places people are already going. I'm sure I posted in this thread that shocking statistic about the percentage of a and e trainees who are leaving at the moment.
Otherwise they can just leave medicine altogether and earn a lot more doing something else whilst having a better quality of life
I also think there's a misconception about what a junior doctor constitutes. It's not just those who are barely out of med school, it's everyone below consultant level.
There probably is. I thought it was people just out of med school.
Everyone seems to be a doctor here, hard to believe there might be a shortage but I'm sure you know better.
It does have enough money, even taking into account the massive agency spend there is at the moment. The NHS runs a surplus. It's just that the individual bodies with a surplus are not those at the sharp end actually doing stuff. Commissioning bodies, inspectors, other 'arms length' cunts are mostly rolling in it. Burn the fuckers to the groind. There are genuinely large organisations within the NHS which could disappear tomorrow and nobody would be any the wiser.
Is that covered by nobody ever reforming it? Why risk getting rid of the *bullshit organisation* when the off-chance remains that it might balls things up?
Sounds like every company out there.
A number I can think of have been added over the years so it isn't just about being risk averse. As I've said before I'd roll the lot into local government and devolve more power to councils. It's ludicrous for (curative) health to be considered separate from public health, education, social services etc.
The minute someone even mentions binning something on the NHS, no matter how ancillary or even detrimental it might be, you'll have the loudest idiots in the country shouting about it being a preamble to privatisation.
You just sell it as sacking loads of managers and people would love it.
Not sure suggesting that a full walk-out for the last 2 days is going to curry favour with the public... refusing A&E work as a public servant just doesn't sit right with me... but I guess it wouldn't be a worthwhile strike unless it hit home.Junior doctors will strike for three days in the next few weeks if a ballot produces the widely expected approval for industrial action in protest at the new contract the government plans to force on them, their union has announced.
NHS trainee doctors in England will provide emergency care only for 24 hours between 8am on Tuesday 1 December and 8am the next day as their first move, reducing hospitals to the low level of service usually seen on Christmas Day.
They intend to follow that up with two all-out stoppages, in which all junior doctors will refuse to work, on Tuesday 8 December and Wednesday 16 December, subject to the result of the BMA’s ballot of the 30,000 juniors it represents.
We'll just have consultants ordering routine bloods, it'll be fine
Why did they get rid of all the different grades in doctoring?
What do you mean?
There are still different grades, "junior doctor" is just a poor term I think.
Like house officer, senior house officer, registrar etc - didn't they bin all those a while back making everyone either a junior or a consultant (a bit like barristers with their senior juniors)?
Yeah I see where you are coming from now. Lee probably understand all that better than me.
From my point of view as you progress your title does change - the names are different for the most part (foundation year 1 and 2, core trainee, speciality trainee) although registrar is still in use - but it's true that everyone below consultant is a 'junior doctor'.
I don't know whether that is a change from the past and if it is what actual difference it makes.
My wife works in A&E, nurse, and it's shit conditions and poor pay compared to her previous experience in the US. Junior Docs are getting universal support from all nurses on the subject because they've been successively shafted because despite now record levels of training, and burdens of qualification and maintenance of that qualification they're getting nothing like the recompense they deserve. Even internally, the higher ups are openly in support of Junior docs but have their hands tied by diktat.
Moving to New Zealand is a very real option for us, both for my work and hers, because there's no feasible way for her to be rewarded anywhere close to even myself.
I can say hand on heart my job is bloody pointless in contrast to what the medical profession undertakes - so to be paid more than most of them with likely fewer qualifications is a bit shit.
What do you do, DC?
You used to be a teacher, right?
He was an IT Engineer for a school like Dav is, no?
Was in teacher training over a decade ago, another under-rewarded profession, but didn't enjoy it. Spent 10 years in telecoms, now in shipping industry data crunching.
My girlfriend has just qualified as a teacher, started working in September, and she's atrociously paid for the hours she does tbh.
I started on QTS. While everyone else degree was 19 hours a week max, plus a paper every couple of weeks, QTS was 40 hours class time and 20 hours out of class work, and 3 papers every week. The level of work to qualify as a teacher just doesn't compare with the level of work required for pretty much any other degree....except nursing and medicine.
How anyone can think a civil engineer is worth more than a nurse is beyond me.
Even basic economics says that where demand outstrips supply the price paid must go up...y'know, the argument being made 2 years ago about Bankers being worth too much to lose.
The titles were binned formally but they're still used. Anybody below a consultant is considered a junior but the ranks within that are recognised. The proper titles are FY1, FY2 etc but nobody really calls them that; we go by the old titles.
I'm not saying they don't graft (possibly even more than civil engineers), but let's not pretend it takes anywhere near the brain power to nurse than it does to stick a bridge up. Come on.
...and there's your mistake, and why the medical profession as a whole (and nurses and midwives in particular) are under-appreciated, underpaid, overworked, and in crisis.
Is there a charity ride I can join to support them?
A facebook profile picture with the Hippocratic Oath symbol would be sufficient.
Not really. I expect it's harder to become a doctor of some description than it is a civil engineer (on average). Maybe they get more money than nurses for that very reason.
My grandfather was a Civil Engineer, he built the bridge next to the Jag factory in Birmingham. He's minted but everyone who turned up at my grans funeral kept saying how surprised they were how 'a couple of socialists had it so good'. I spent the entirety of my Grandmothers Wake being called the spawn of Communism. I'd never heard either of them say a political word in their life.
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